Man wants to be killed for his organs
According to CNN on July 29:
A GA man suffering from Lou Gehrig’s disease says he wants to die by having his organs harvested rather than wait for his degenerative nerve ailment to kill him.
Garry Phebus has been battling amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, as the disease is formally known, since 2008. The 61yo told HLN’s Prime News on Thursday that the diagnosis is “a death sentence, positively, no questions asked,” and he wants do donate his organs while he still can.
“If people have their legs cut off or their wife left them and they commit suicide, it’s another story. They still have a life ahead of them. But I do not,” he said. And for people waiting for transplants, “There’s nothing greater than for a family member to receive an organ so they can watch their family grow up.”
Here’s video of the story…
While Phebus’s diagnosis is tragic, I think it is equally tragic that he has chosen to take on this morbid fight as his life slowly ebbs, rather his children and grandchildren. What message is he sending them?
Phebus doesn’t know how long he has to live, but according to Wikipedia:
Most people with ALS die from respiratory failure, usually within 3 to 5 years from the onset of symptoms. However, about 10–20% of those individuals with ALS survive 10 or more years.
Phebus says his wish is no different than that of a soldier willing to throw himself on a hand grenade to save his or comrades. And in a way I can see his view.
But it is the culture of death speaking to and through Phebus, not heroism. According to CNN, his premature death is utterly unnecessary:
Leigh Vinocur, an emergency medicine physician at the University of MD… said… “[A]t this point, he’s fairly healthy”… And ALS is unlikely to harm the organs most likely to be used for transplants unless some sort of related infection strikes them, she said.
Lou Gehrig, for whom ALS was obviously named, went on to live 2 years after he gave his famous speech at Yankee Stadium, when he said he considered himself “the luckiest man on the face of the earth.” How far thinking of the face of the earth has descended in 61 yrs….
[HT: WI Right to Life blog; photo via Garry Phebus’s Facebook page;]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
If I were his kid or his grandkid, I’d feel kind of insulted. He’d rather die now than spend as much time with them as possible?
I went to school with a girl whose father had terminal cancer for about six years. By the time he died, she’d had a lot of time to come to terms with his death and didn’t have any regrets about things she should have told him, et cetera. He was hoping to live to see her graduate from high school but he died a couple of months before she did. This guy doesn’t want to live to see another birthday or anniversary?
My late grandmother spent the last years of her life saying, “I wish the Good Lord would take me now.” If He’d done it the moment she wanted Him to, she wouldn’t have lived to see all her grandchildren be born, or to see the births of her first three great-grandchildren. My grandfather also would haver been devastated without he for years as opposed to months. (He died a few months after she did because he’d just had major surgery at the age of 91.) Does this guy not care about his family? Or are they all taking the “Go, Dad, kill yourself! Woo hoo!” route?
In 2007 I spent the summer working across the hall from a woman whose husband had ALS. He was staying home taking care of their daughters while she was at work. I bet those girls were happy he didn’t decide to kill himself.
I think what we’re looking at here is a very depressed man whose mental health problems are being overlooked. The fact that you know you’re going to die soon does not necessarily mean you’ll be depressed about it. My other grandfather is 91 now and having fun watching the baseball games.
I totally agree with you, Marauder. I just read Tuesdays With Morrie, and Morrie was also afflicted with ALS. I wish more people would put their ‘donor dot’ on their drivers license (we have them in our state), it’s a pink dot that we used to stick onto the card, but now they print them on it at the DMV. It is depressing to be sick, but that doesn’t mean one can’t help others. One doesn’t have to die early to help others. It’s not the same as a soldier throwing himself on a grenade. He is like a soldier who wants to die before the grenade is even thrown.
A man with 3-5 years to live could influence a lot of people to donate their organs & make their wishes known to their families. Then a lot more people would be helped overall. He is only one man with one set of organs; instead, he could inspire dozens of other people, maybe even hundreds. Suicide is not inspirational at all.
Sad that he feels that way. That he gets to “choose” to die. My mother and grandmother died within a year of each other. Both died suddenly, neither of them WANTED to die. We at least got to be with my grandmother and tell her goodbye. My mother died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. we didn’t even get to be with her or tell her good-bye. This man is FORTUNATE to have ANY more time to spend with his loved ones. I understand not wanting to “suffer”, but he should live and love to the FULLEST whatever time he has left.
My concern is cases like this are the slippery slope aspect. If it become “legal” there is no telling the mischief that can happen. Consent forms can be forged. Desperate people taken advantage of.
This gentleman need only worry that Obamacare hasn’t been repealed by the time he needs pain management or hospice care toward the end. If it not repealed, he will be made to suffer by bureaucrats who have declared him not economical to treat.
This man’s whole idea is that he wants to sacrifice himself for the good of others. In general, that’s a pretty selfless thing to do (doing something nice for others that doesn’t benefit you, not asking to die). I don’t see how this is a “culture of death” idea like Jill suggests- he’s trying to save other people’s lives. I’m not saying whether I disagree or agree with his idea, but I hate to see people say he’s doing something awful or talk about some “culture of death” when he’s probably one of them most selfless and pro-life people I’ve heard about.
Except for kidneys and partial livers, every organ donor is murdered by vivisection- they don’t die a natural death. The ends don’t justify the means and murder is murder. In this case, it would be assisted suicide, since the man wants to die this way and needs doctors to help him do so.
This is wrong, no matter how you slice it. And to add some ire to this conversation that I know will result in me getting attacked for saying so, this man is merely a coward trying to hide his cowardice under a guise of caring for others.
The soldier who throws himself on the grenade is a dead man either way, and he knows it. Throwing himself on the grenade is calculated to ensure that only he dies. He is the sole actor in so doing.
This poor fellow would have a surgical team murder him, and any immediate benefit to a few humans who would receive his organs is offset a thousand-fold by the horrific precedent that would be set in the medical community. Once it becomes acceptable for doctors to commit murder at the behest of the patient, it isn’t long before they are doing it without the patient’s knowledge or consent.
Such involuntary euthanasia happens by the hundreds annually in the Netherlands, where the ‘Noble’ practice of physician-assisted suicide has degenerated into killing the mentally ill involuntarily. The same in Belgium:
http://gerardnadal.com/2010/06/29/peter-paul-and-a-new-evangelization/
Phebus faces a terrible death with ALS. But then, I can’t think of too many good ways to go. Jacqueline is on to something in her post. Phebus is doing this mainly to retain control over his life before it is robbed through immobility. His quick and painless exit would mean misery for multitudes. If it’s a quick checkout he wants, he can die by his own hand. Jacqueline is correct:
“this man is merely a coward trying to hide his cowardice under a guise of caring for others.”
Yes, as usual, cowardice is presented as the virtue of compassion here. Always the case in evil – a lie presented as a good.
I have a good friend who has bone cancer. He was told 4 years ago that he had months to live. But he’s been able to see most of his 8 children grow up. The youngest is now 14 and he’s still doing very well. He was a farmer and can’t farm anymore but he’s very active and his 7 daughters help out around the farm. Beautiful! We are all happy he’s still alive and kicking! :D
Uh, who would want his organs? really, even if they appear healthy, they are the organs of someone with ALS. I would think of them as damaged goods.
I cannot believe the lack of compassion in here… You call him a coward?
Here is a man who knows he is not only facing death but a very painful and drawn out death not only for him but for his family as well. Not to mention the financial strain it will cause his family as his condition worsens. In the face of this he decides that in his death he might be able to give life to a few other people in need, possibly a family member. Yet, you would rather he blow his head off with a shotgun so there are no political consequences? That’s about the most heartless thing I have read all day… If your child would die without a heart transplant and your heart was the only match would it not be your RIGHT to save your child’s life by sacrificing your own?
To deny this man a dignified death that might give life to another with the “slippery slope” reasoning is just pathetic. Your projecting possible political out comes against a man who is suffering and only wishes to do one last humane and selfless act.
Who would want his organs? What a stupid thing to say! All donated organs are screened before they are even suggested to be put into another’s body. Any parent who visits their child in a children’s hospital while they wait for a donor organ so they can do something as simple as go outside and sit on the grass would say “MY CHILD WANTS THEM!”
This man has lived a full 61 years and wishes to give someone else that same chance and you guys call him coward…
Oh and just a FYI… Combat doctor’s often give a lethal dose of drugs to a wounded soldier on the battle field that will not survive or requests not to live the rest of their lives as half a man. They consider it the humane thing to do.
Biggz, I wouldn’t expect someone that justifies a mother dismembering the very child she created to have any grasp on morality.
“Combat doctor’s often give a lethal dose of drugs to a wounded soldier on the battle field that will not survive or requests not to live the rest of their lives as half a man. They consider it the humane thing to do.”
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I don’t think this is accurate…the “lethal” doses of drugs you refer to is morphine, to dull the pain of a dying soldier…not to outright kill the man immediately.
And I don’t think medics kill their wounded buddies with lethal doses of morphine even upon request…
Some warped imagination you got there…death-dealing doctors/ medics. Oh, I forgot, that’s “normal” for you, my mistake.
Well it’s obvious that RSD knows NOTHING about combat. Combat medics have their morphine already measured out in easy squeeze tube style needles. They know that giving a person a certain number of doses at the same time is a lethal dose. Yes this absolutely does happen in combat situations and it’s the most humane thing a soldier can do for another soldier who put up all the fight he had for freedom. Just answer me this question RSD… Have you ever been handed a death letter by your best friend to give to his parents on the very last occasion you saw him? If not keep your idealized concept of combat to yourself.
Jacqueline – How can you claim to be on the side of mercy and life when you are promoting this man’s prolonged suffering and the prolonged suffering of the people who could live a normal life after transplant? Your saying all parties concerned should continue to suffer or taste the wrong end of a 12guage? This man is selflessly trying to save other people lives before he dies…
Oh and as for his family being disappointed… I would be nothing but proud of my grandfathers giant heart and balls. I would want to get to know the people my grandfather saved and who he continues to live on with in spirit.
I think that even other “Pro-life” people would agree with me in saying ridicule is the last thing this poor man deserves. If you disagree maybe you should try living with LGD…
The responses, for the most part, are absolutely sickening and disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourselves. To deny this man a right to end his life with a little dignity is an outrage. Who are any of you to judge this man because he doesn’t want to live, what HE considers, a substandard existence. You people make me absolutely sick. It is his choice. I know, that word is taboo amongst the “pro-life” crowd, but really, you people need to get a grip. We treat our animals better than a fellow human being. It is astounding.
Jake and Biggz, you clearly have not been paying attention.
There is not single place in the world where legalized assisted suicide has not led to outright murder in the name of relieving suffering.
In Oregon, the state plan will offer to pay for suicide rather than treating cancer. At some point, it will be the only treatment covered for low survival rate cancers.
In some European countries, disabled infants, children and adults are “euthanized” for being a burden on taxpayer.
In the US 90% of babies with Down Syndrome are killed. It is not that big a step to killing the last 10% after they are born or mandating pre-birth screening so they can all be killed before birth.
The issue is not this one man. It is the path down which this man’s desire has led so many countries.
Once again, I don’t expect people that support murdering children because they are not wanted at the moment by their parents to see the evil in murdering one’s self.
Biggz and Jake,
You simply do not grasp the issue. This man is being asked to be dismembered alive, very much alive. That’s not what physicians do. It is a violation of all that we in the medical community hold sacred. Doctors and Nurses are not contract killers. They are healers.
This poor guy has drawn the short straw in the death lottery. It’s a bad way to go. So is bone cancer. So is having multiple fractures and extensive burns after accidents that eventually overtake the patient. So is ebola, and a host of truly terrifying endings to life. This guy can die by his OWN hand if he really wants to checkout early. Turning physicians into contract killers who will dismember humans alive is as grotesque a distortion of good as they come.
To the comment about combat medics and physicians giving large doses of morphine or other drugs to alliviate suffering, (and back me up on this doc) the principle of “double effect” applies. The priniciple of Double Effect is a philosophical construct whereby you have a morally good or morally neutral act, and you intend the good act not the bad result. For instance, in the case of morphine your intention is to alleivate the suffering of a terminally ill patient (good act), not to kill him. The unintended consequence of the morphine is death. This however is not your intention. Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Theologiae spelled this out about Homocidial Self Defense. That principle can apply to the combat medic who dispenses morphine. He doesn’t intentionally kill the person. Same thing with an Ectopic pregnancy, a Mother would die from a tubal pregnancy so the doctor removes the egg from the fallopian tube (mind you Im not an OB/Gyn or anything) in doing so the embryo dies BUT the life of the mother is saved, otherwise both she and the embryo would die. So the principle of Double effect applies here too. There are other examples but I think you get the picture
Judging us by saying we judge others is called judgment. :P
I keep forgetting that some opinions are so much more valid than others.
I someone had the basic moral fibre to understand that a mother creating a baby and then killing her baby is wrong, I could see explaining how it’s wrong to kill yourself even if your intentions are good, just as it’s wrong to kill others even with good intentions would be a conversation worth having. We could talk about the ends justifying the means, rationalization, double effect and such and have reasonable expectation that the people we address could understand. I have no such expectations with pro-aborts. It actually makes logical sense that people who own think life is valuable when perfect would laud a now imperfect person killing themselves to give a better life to the perfect ones who they deem worthy of continuing to live. It saves these people the trouble of having to kill the imperfect themselves- which is hard work given that they are so cowardly themselves that they prefer to kill babies who can’t fight back.
I am glad some of you have the patience to try to carve on rotten wood in trying to explain basic morality to people devoid of conscience. I simply don’t have that patience.
Gerard – So, what about the lives “plural” that this man’s un-deteriorated organs can save? Do those lives not mean anything then? This man is trying to SAVE LIVES! If doctors do not take bodies apart where do donor organs come from Taiwan? It is in no way against the Hippocratic Oath for a doctor to honor a dying mans wishes to save the lives of others. Once again you would deny these life giving organs to people who really need them on the altar of projected political consequences? What the hell kind of doctor is that? This man is going to die, but rather than honor his request and spare him the suffering you would leave him to suffer while people who need those organs also continue to suffer and possibly die as well? How is that in anyway moral or justified? If it is his wish and his family wish, how can he be denied what would seem to most people to be a VERY honorable death worthy of respect. Is there any other part of someone else’s life you would like to control? I’m sure this is just the beginning.
You know Hitler had pieces of flare that he made the Jews wear…..
Biggz,
The first precept of morality and ethics is that the end does not justify the means. We must employ just means toward a just end. It doesn’t matter how many people’s lives are saved. If a man is intentionally killed in order to harvest his organs, that’s called high-tech cannibalism.
There was time twenty-five years ago when frogs were dissected alive so that premedical students could learn physiology by experimenting on a living organism. Such dissection while the animal is alive is called vivisection, and has been abolished as a cruel and barbaric process. But you would allow for the vivisection of human beings?
In the end, it matters not at all what the well-intentioned, but horribly disordered desires of the patient are. Medical professionals are not hired guns. In China prisoners are executed and their organs harvested immediately. How easily it can come to that here. There are actually principles that are worth fighting for, and dying for…be that on a battlefield, or in a hospice bed.