Jivin J’s Life Links 11-4-10
by JivinJ, host of the blog, JivinJehoshaphat
- Apparently, Cher’s mom almost aborted her: My mother told me once about how she got pregnant with me and didn’t want to be with my dad; she was just so young and inexperienced. My grandmother said, ‘You have a bright future.’ She actually suggested an abortion, so my mom was in the doctor’s office—a back-alley doctor—getting on the table. And then at the last minute she said, ‘I can’t do this. I don’t care what happens—I can’t do this.’
- An Abortioneer discusses how she freely calls unborn children “babies” if they’re wanted:I work at an abortion clinic and I have a pregnant friend and a pregnant acquaintance. For what it’s worth, 1 pregnancy was planned, 1 wasn’t, and both are welcome. I can’t wait to meet their babies, and I tell them that. I even call an 9-week fetus a baby in the case of the shopkeeper I chat with….
Several co-workers of mine have been pregnant and bring their kids to work to see all of their aunties. I once told a toddler, “I remember seeing you on your mama’s ultrasound around 19 weeks!”
So odd considering that she would have freely assisted in killing that exact same child at 19 weeks if the mother wanted.
- A Christianity Today blog has a post about a HBO documentary entitled “Google Baby” about fertility tourism in India where wealthy families from other countries pay Indian women thousands of dollars to carry their children.
Nov.04, 2010 1:00 pm |
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
So its only a baby aka person when its wanted.
Noooooo! She did not see that toddler in an ultrasound!! She saw a unrealized, undeveloped, potential to be human, blob of cells, fetus, therefore it could not have been the fully formed, living breathing, child in front of her. More lies!!!!!!
“So its only a baby aka person when its wanted.”
Or it’s a person if it’s outside the womb for some reason. Not wanted people outside the womb can’t be killed… who knows why…
Or it’s a person if it’s outside the womb for some reason. Not wanted people outside the womb can’t be killed… who knows why…
Bobby,
I’ve heard some pro-aborts say that the reason something is good or bad depends on popular opinion and not any outside influence, like God or the Bible. Once in a while that doesn’t work and a judge has to step in and give his opinion. But that doesn’t happen very often, so the consensus idea is still the best way to go. Ya know?
I miscarried and my very vocal pro-choice friend mourned the loss with me. I told her that I didn’t understand how should could mourn what I thought was a baby and what she thought of as a medical condition and she told me that it came down to “my intentions” for the baby.
If I thought it was a baby, then she should be sad with/for me. If I thought it was a “blob,” then she would “respect that, too.”
I don’t believe that the question of a baby being a life depends on how the mother feels about it: conception = life, not birth = life.
Our boy Hal is gonna to go nuts, but it really is relativism, Roma. The idea is that there is no objective reality as to the ontological status of the unborn. Father John Corapi often tells the story of a debate he was in with a pro-choicer on abortion. After much running, Father Corapi finally point blank asked the question “what is it?” (referring to the fetus). Her reply was “Whatever I want it to be.”
That sums it up quite well. But as I mentioned before, I don’t know why the fetus can be “whatever you want it to be” but a born infant is a human person with dignity and moral worth who can not be killed. Yes, I realize that a possible answer to this has to do with the infant no longer being attached to the woman, living off her, etc. But how does that determine WHAT the unborn is? That works for the bodily autonomy argument for abortion, but not to argue that the fetus can be whatever you want it to be or that it has no real ontological status.
“I once told a toddler, “I remember seeing you on your mama’s ultrasound around 19 weeks!” ”
I honestly cannot understand how this woman’s brain works. It is just baffling.
Funny Cher should mention this, because she is very pro-abortion. I think she had two.
Bobby, I haven’t been around often enough to know about Hal (only lurking for about a month or so), but I look forward to being more involved.
When the “Abortioneer” writes, “[i]t’s all about the intention,” it’s _incredibly_ morally relativistic and discounts what the baby is: a baby. But it’s “not about the science,” haha.
Cher also played a small role as an abortionist in the 1996 HBO movie “If These Walls Could Talk”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gol9FhL1MlU&feature=related
At about 8:12 she starts the procedure prep. I won’t give away the ending. But yes, she performs an abortion.
“I haven’t been around often enough to know about Hal”
hehe, my comment about Hal was just an inside joke…
Carder, I rarely watch television or go to movies, partly because they don’t interest me, but I am sick of pro-abort actors, television producers, etc.
Yeah, it really is relativism. Regardless of religion or the lack thereof, killing innocent people is just wrong, period. And regardless of what some people may want to believe, fetuses are, scientifically, human beings.
Anybody remember seeing me mention my purple crisis pregnancy center afghan? It’s all done and I just ran it over to Birthright today, along with the baby stuff I bought back in June. (I don’t drive, I had to figure out where Birthright was, and I have ADD.) The lady behind the desk was really glad to have it. Now I’m working on a green and blue afghan and I bought some baby clothes on clearance to donate after I’ve bought a few more things.
You know what would be kind of cool? If for, say, the first two weeks in December, the regular commenters all bought at least one baby thing and donated it to a CPC, or donated something they already had. We could keep a running list of donated stuff and see how much we could do in just two weeks. Ooooh, project…
Truly, our culture would be poorer for not having Cher.
I don’t agree with Cher’s political beliefs, but I like her anyway. She’s a strong, strong woman and she’s a really good actress. If I turned away from everyone who didn’t share my philosophies, my life in the arts would be extremely limited.
Marauder,
I think that is an excellent idea. Congrats on finishing your afghan for the CPC!
Roma,
I’m so sorry for your loss. :(
I hope that things have improved for you. I hope that you find lots of love and support here.
I’m a philosophy nut and a science nut and a student of religion, but I agree that we cannot base our laws off of anything but science- I don’t know when souls enter the body. It depends on the culture and the religion. But I do know that our American culture was founded on the idea that all are equal, and fetuses count as all- so they’re equal.
MaryLee, I’m not saying that I won’t watch anyone who doesn’t share my philosphy. Personally I don’t like Cher’s foul mouth and I don’t think her voice is that good. I can’t really comment about her acting because I’ve never seen her in anything. And all that plastic surgery she’s had makes her look bizarre.
I just am saying that I’m tired of Hollywood ridiculing my faith and beliefs, and I think many people would agree with me. Yes, I believe in free speech and freedom of experession, but I can count on the fingers of one hand the recent films where Christians were portrayed in a positive or even a neutral light. Usually we’re portrayed as intolerant bigots who hate gays, aren’t too bright, etc. — you know the stereotypes. Why should I support an industry that views people like myself with scorn and contempt?
Oh, I know what you mean, Phillymiss! I really do. As for Cher, I don’t think her singing is that grand, and yeah, she’s had a heck of a lot of cosmetic surgery. But I do watch pretty much almost any movie she’s in—she’s a very, very good actress.
I get tired of Hollywood, too, and their uber-liberalism. Most of them don’t understand how the rest of us live, and most aren’t even very educated. It disappoints me when I see the pro-life movement portrayed as grotesque, idiotic rednecks or Jesus freaks….And I think actors should keep their mouths shut regarding politics, period. I find it interesting that Republicans are scorned as some “rich people’s club” when the Left is far, far worse.
But, anyway, I’m just sayin’ that Cher was really excellent in Moonstruck. And Suspect. And Silkwood. And Mask.
Phillymiss, I’m with you. If the actor/singer/what-have-you is pro-abortion or progressive in any other way, I simply will not toss one red cent their way. Really, I don’t need to be entertained that badly. Of course they can spout all the venom they want, but I refuse to dignify it with my time and attention.
that’s the reason I can’t watch Sister Act 2 anymore (i liked it, but Whoopi is pro abortion). And the music was so good :(
Don’t even get me started on Whoopi. She’s just a mean, hateful person, period.
But I do like some celebrities….I like that Tina Fey (though pro-choice) shows that girls that being smart is something to be admired. I like that Shawn Colvin has an immense amount of talent and resilience, and she’s very brave for speaking out about depression.
On the other hand, I’ve always liked Angie Harmon, and I’m not gonna lie to you–I liked her even more when I found out she’s pro-life!
I loved that folding-laundry character Cher used to do, very funny!
Whenever someone I like has politics I can’t support, I buy their stuff used or get it from Netflix. That way, I can still enjoy whatever it is, but they don’t get any more royalties to support killing babies. (I love Sister Act!)
Thanks, Vannah. I am with you when you write, I don’t know when souls enter the body,” as neither do I.
That is an important topic — we don’t follow the OT philosophy of “a baby hasn’t a [recognized] soul before 40 days gestation or before the first quickening” before we call it a life.
“we don’t follow the OT philosophy of “a baby hasn’t a [recognized] soul before 40 days gestation or before the first quickening” before we call it a life.”
This isn’t in the OT. This is just pro-choicers trying to show how our “very own bible contradicts the pro-life mentality.” It isn’t a question begging argument, so I suppose for that we should all be grateful.
I get tired of Hollywood, too, and their uber-liberalism. Most of them don’t understand how the rest of us live, and most aren’t even very educated.
You’re right about that. Hollywood’s mantra was how stupid Bush was, and many of these people didn’t even attend college, much less Harvard.
I find that I am watching television less and less. There ‘s nothing like curling up with a good book (and a cat or two) on a chilly winter night. Not only are the cats warm, since they sit in the same place for hours, they also make good book rests.
A lot of celebrities were almost aborted. Julie Andrews was the product of her mother’s affair and Judy Garland’s mother made secret plans to abort her until Judy’s father found out and put a stop to it. How DARE a MAN save his daughter’s life, right? Judy should have never been born, right?
Judy Garland was forced into an abortion in 1941 that destroyed her emotionally and led to her drinking problem. Famous ballerina Margot…ugh, I forget her last name but she was British was almost aborted. Then she grew up to be very promiscuous and had two abortions herself. I’m sure there are so many more that we don’t know about who were slated for death by abortion but made it out alive somehow.
I had a pro-choice friend who no longer speaks to me because she was furious I am pro-life though I never talked to her about it. Anyhow, she found out I was pro-life and really let me have it. When I mentioned that she had been pregnant and seen her daughter’s ultrasound and her daughter at 12 weeks was clearly human and alive. She told me that my son had been a blob because he was unplanned and her daughter was a human because she was planned but the one she previously aborted was a blob because that baby was unplanned…I couldn’t believe the utter nonsense she was saying. Does anyone with any shred of intelligence think our FEELINGS influence the reality of biology? REALLY?
Phillymiss: Bush went to Yale, as a legacy admission, and he didn’t exactly earn some high grades, not that grades are always a good indication of intelligence, nor is getting into college of any type (clearly). I am with you on the cats as good book rests.
The anti-choicers love to say that fetuses which are aborted might have grown up to do something great and noble. I say that these same fetuses might have grown up to be Jeffrey Dahlmer. And for those who say “thank god that so and so didn’t abort,” I say wouldn’t it have been great if Adolph Hitler’s mother had an abortion.
Hi DD.
So what you have realized and shown (I think quite well) is that the argument you mentioned put forth by pro-lifers is a bad one. Indeed, I cringe every time I hear that argument, not only for the reasons you mentioned, but also because it implies that we value human beings based on what they do or their contributions to society as opposed to valuing them for what they are; that is, a human being has moral dignity and worth simply in light of the fact that it is human.
@DD
You’re right. That is a bad argument. Anybody might grow up to be anything. A better argument is that everybody has the right to grow up! Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else, can judge someone as a horrible monster until after they’ve done something to deserve it. Advocating for abortion on the basis that we might, inadvertently, kill off the next Hitler before he gets to be an evil monster is just as moronic as advocating against it on the basis we might, inadvertently, kill off the gal who cures cancer.
Yes, Bobby. Pro-aborts seem to value only what a human being “does” and how it functions, and that is what makes one a “person”; I believe the fact that the unborn babies are human beings makes them persons, indeed, and is the only criteria needed to protect their right to live.
Shows how little you know about Hitler. There were many times during his early life that things could have gone the other way. For example, what if people had encouraged his art and bought his paintings? There are many solutions to the world’s problems, but murder is no solution to anything.
And isn’t it ironic when Margaret Sanger’s minions bring up Hitler as a bad example of a human being. DD, do you know exactly why that is so ironic? Go ahead, tell us why, why is it funny for you to disparage Hitler at the same time embracing Sanger’s eugenics? Many pro-lifers already know why I’m chuckling. Do you?
Ninek
Actually, I know quite a lot about Hitler. He was raised in a strict Roman Catholic family and, interestingly, was never excommunicated. As you say, things might have been different if there had been different dynamics in his earlier years. We’ll never know. You are chuckling because, as a person who opposes reproductive choice, you hate Margaret Sanger and try to paint her as a supporter of eugenics when the reality is more complex. We, in the pro-choice movement, consider her a hero because she fought to make contraception available to women, especially poor women who were burdened with too many children, by opposing the Comstock Laws. While some of her views seem inappropriate in today’s world where the handicapped have far better quality of life, they do not tar her legacy. (Henry Ford’s legacy is not tarred by his anti-Semitic views) Her books were burned by the Nazis and she assisted Jews to leave Germany. She was clearly not a racist as she worked closely with WEB DuBois to establish black hosptals in the American south which provided quality hospitals to whites only. So chuckle away. For those of us who believe in choice, she is a hero.
Every human has the right to life – how long that life is or how productive is not the point. We are all here for a reason – even if it is to help another to be compassionate toward others.
Killing doesn’t solve the world’s problems… and we must always remember that the aim of every abortion is to end the life of the baby. Most people don’t really think of that – they just want the ‘problem to go away.’ But if they really thought: I am about to kill my child so the problem will go away, they’d think twice.
Abortion is a permanent act regarding a temporary problem. Right now I know several couples who want to adopt a baby, and yet there were many women coming into our local PP clinic to abort theirs. Ironic and sad.
@Kat – Sorry, I thought Bush went to Yale. Bush was no rocket scientist, but I don’t think he was as stupid as people claim he was.
I wonder if cats are prolife? They sure have lots of babies (mine are fixed).
Phillymiss,
I love kitties. :)
DD,
I didn’t know that about Margaret Sanger. I support birth control, so I’m happy for her fights, but I had always read opposite- that she was a racist and advocate of eugenics. My history book mentioned her support of eugenics (and it was a liberal history book- admittedly, it kind of skimmed over it, but mentioned her support of it). I have no idea if she was pro-life or pro-choice by today’s standards- I have no idea how she felt about abortion- but she seemed to be quite vocallly full of bigotry. And I had never read anything to the contrary- every pro-choice person, when discussing her legacy of eugenics, has stated, “Well, it was a different time.” Literally, you are the first one who has said that she was anti-racism.
Was she really against racism? I mean this honestly. If you have texts, I would hope to see them- I’m just a little confused. I would like to know more. I don’t mean to sound rude, because if she did fight work against Hitler, she would have more of my respect- a lot more.
A most profound statement by Dr. Suess “A person is a person no matter how small”. God help our nation and our world.
Its actually not what I meant DD. As Bobby said every human life has worth because its a human life. period. What I was saying was imagine if these actors HAD been aborted and the joy we would have missed out on . I assume you’ve seen the movie “Its a Wonderful Life” In the movie is a line about how every life touches somebody else’s life.
My point is we will never know the great people we have missed out on because they were aborted. Maybe some psychopaths were aborted too. Who knows? Who are we to say? We are not God. We can’t tell how somebody’s life is going to turn out. It is not our place to pretend we can see the future and that an innocent baby must die because he “might” be the next Hitler. Can I look at your life and say “Well, this person is obviously cold-hearted and will turn out to be a psychopath so I am going to kill DD now” How can I know what the future holds for you? How is is my place to deem your life unworthy and say you must die? Yet that is what you do to unborn children. Pretending you know that abortion has prevented the next Jeffrey Dahmer. Pulease.
You should read about the connection of the same people doing the Tuskegee experiments on Blacks that were part of Margaret Sanger’s The Negro Project eugenics crowd.
“The American Eugenics Society, The Milibank Memorial Fund the Carnegie Institute and the Rockefeller Foundation all financed population control studies to meet the goals of the eugenic community. Many of the top-level board members of these foundations were members of the American Eugenics Society who worked to advance the Society’s population control agenda”, quote from the book “The Tuskegee Syphilis Study: What Really Happened” by Akua Furlow, Sojourner Press, 2004. Chapter 3 of the book is titled ‘Margaret Sanger and the American Birth Control League Connection”. Akua Furlow writes “While many biographers have painted Sanger as a heroine, historical evidence reveals she was a person consumed by elitist idology and racial bigotry. In a 1919 Birth Control Review article titled “Birth control and Racial Betterment” Sanger wrote:
“Before Eugenicists and others who are laboring for racial betterment can succeed, they must first clear the way for Birth Control. Like the advocates of Birth control, the eugenicists, for instance are seeking to assist the race towards the ELIMINATION OF THE UNFIT.” (my captilazation added)
Don’t buy into the lies Vannah, Sanger was not a friend of the poor, minorities or the unborn, she was detestable and from other sources I have read a free love, Bohemian lifestyle, elitist, racist eugenicist. Find Akua’s book online she did tons of research on Sanger and read it.
Excellent Pro-lifer, but DD has not connected all the dots yet.
What, DD, relationship did Margaret Sanger have with Hilter and his associates? Come on now, you can find it, keep digging.
@Vannah – great minds think alike ;-)
Marauder I think your suggestion is a good one to donate to CPCs. I will let you know what I am going to donate to my local CPC in a week or 2 and maybe other prolifers will do the same over the holiday season. It would be fun to see how much gets donated by posters on Jill’s blog.
My parish has an advent wreath with paper ornaments with the names of various agencies that need donations. I always grab the ornaments for BirthRight or the Crisis Pregnancy Center or the local Right to Life group and buy diapers and receiving blankets and things like that.
Yes, pro-aborts have actually said this very thing to me at other discussion boards:
“It’s only a baby if it’s wanted.”
I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry at this inane assertion. How ludicrous! This type of thinking is frightening because of its implications: Think of how many other such denials could bring legalized murder in other areas of our culture. GOD HELP US.
DD, if you know a lot about Hitler, you know that, according to a childhood friend, he never attended Mass again after he left home. One thing is clear: His religion/ideology was Aryanism, not the Christian faith.
Dory one of the most popular paddock boots have been designed for male and female alike. So what are you waiting for? It’s the right time to rejuvenate your fashion quotient. Just get a pair of those Manolo Blahnik shoes and dare to stand apart.