An inclusive women’s movement?
We decided that in order to take women forward, we would have to be a voice for all women – so put political party and the issue of abortion aside because those were the two issues that were dividing women in half.
So, for us it was a business model: How can you have a women’s movement that excludes half the women?
~ Amy Siskind, president and co-founder of nonpartisan women’s advocacy group The New Agenda, describing her reaction after Hillary Clinton’s failed presidential bid, as quoted by CNN, July 19
[Photo: Hillary Clinton (L), Sarah Palin (C), Michele Bachmann (R) via CNN; HT: Kelsey H.]

Good for her! I care about the same things many PC women care about — the environment, increasing job opportunities for women (and not just upper-middle class women), etc. I just can’t understand the accusation that prolife women “hate” women. So I hate myself, my daughter, my mother and sisters? Really?
Exactly, Phillymiss! But other PC feminists aren’t going to want us in their camp. Many of them believe, as Steinem and Nora Ephron have said, You CANNOT be a feminist if you don’t believe in the right to choose to have your baby dismembered and burned. So. I’m torn on this idea. They’ve rejected pro-life feminism for so long, I don’t know how that would even work.
I agree with you both! We need to increase job opportunities for women, as long as we don’t have to feel forced to abort our children in order to advance in the company. I care about the environment, as long as I don’t have to be made to feel guilty because I CHOOSE to have another child that will supposedly contribute to the destruction of the environment. I refuse to believe I cannot be a feminist if I am prolife. I’ve had an abortion when I bought into the PC movement and it has not empowered me one bit. So, becoming prolife has not made me “hate women.” What I do hate is what abortion has done to women and our children. I’m sure PC feminists won’t welcome me at all. They were so quick to demonize me for reaching out to them for abortion regret that I don’t expect much from the PC camp at all.
I accidently made a contribution years ago to a group that billed itself as nonpartisan, for women. It turned out to be heavy on the pro-choice. Yuck.
Can I help a woman rise to power just because she is a woman? If I help her, because she’s a woman, and then she travels to foreign countries promoting abortion, haven’t I helped her? If I help her rise to power, don’t I share in being responsible for the death she promotes?
I didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton during the primaries. I kind of regret it because I underestimated how awful Obama would be. But when she and Biden go around telling people how great population control is and how wonderful abortion would be for their people, I gag. I’m glad I didn’t help her because I don’t want that dirt on my hands.
Mary Lee and Ninek, I know what you mean. I thought that Hillary was much more qualified than Obama, and I agree with her on some things. But her unrelenting abortion advocacy really turns me off. To me, nothing is more feminist than the pregnancy crisis centers. In most cases, they are run by women and staffed by women, but PC’ers have labeled them Public Enemy #1 and are working overtime to shut them down.
And Jill profiled an organization that supposedly is neutral on abortion and helps women sort out their feelings about abortion (i forget the name) and it turns out that it’s totally PC.
I think you might be talking about Exhale.
Phillymiss: I care about the same things many PC women care about — the environment, increasing job opportunities for women (and not just upper-middle class women), etc. I just can’t understand the accusation that prolife women “hate” women. So I hate myself, my daughter, my mother and sisters? Really?
WOW is it hot! (Working to the east of you in NJ.)
I agree with you, Phillymiss – pro-choice women have no “lock” on the “women’s movement,” necessarily.
The question of the weight we give to the importance of women’s liberty, as compared to other things, remains.
Tax credits to companies that institute “Mom/Family-Friendly” policies like increased family leave and on-site child care programs.
I don’t believe in Global Warming though.
Hello to a fellow NJan, Doug.
“The question of the weight we give to the importance of women’s liberty, as compared to other things, remains.”
The question of whether the ability to legally kill your unborn children is part of liberty comes first and remains always.
And yes, it’s bloody hot out there.
The one thing we can have in common as women is knowing how pregnancy can inspire panic and wanting to work toward a day in which it always inspires joy.
The one thing we can have in common as women is knowing how pregnancy can inspire panic and wanting to work toward a day in which it always inspires joy.
And this will come closer to reality once abortion becomes illegal.
Denise, some women did this, but not to the degree pro-choicers have indicated. Dr. Bernard Nathanson, a former abortionist and co-founder of NARAL admitted they flat out fabricated the statistics.
I would love to work towards a situation in which more pregnancies inspire joy. I think a huge part of that would be helping people see that sex and procreation cannot be divorced. However, in reality we will never reach a point where no woman experiences an unplanned pregnancy (and the panic that can accompany it). A more realistic goal is to stop telling women that it’s either front alley or back alley abortions and help them see, instead, the resources available to them to get through this pregnancy and either parent or make an adoption plan for their children.
I posted this on The New Agenda’s facebook page; TNA liked it and reaffirmed their commitment to allowing everyone to participate. But someone with an “I Stand With Planned Parenthood” profile picture accused TNA of being “hard right” and left the group. Devout pro-choicers are the problem; they recognize inclusive women’s organizations as a threat. After all, if neutral groups like TNA gain prominence, how are abortion groups supposed to maintain their “women’s rights” soundbite?
Good on TNA for sticking their neck out there.
CT says:
July 22, 2011 at 3:45 pm
Denise, some women did this, but not to the degree pro-choicers have indicated. Dr. Bernard Nathanson, a former abortionist and co-founder of NARAL admitted they flat out fabricated the statistics. I would love to work towards a situation in which more pregnancies inspire joy. I think a huge part of that would be helping people see that sex and procreation cannot be divorced. However, in reality we will never reach a point where no woman experiences an unplanned pregnancy (and the panic that can accompany it). A more realistic goal is to stop telling women that it’s either front alley or back alley abortions and help them see, instead, the resources available to them to get through this pregnancy and either parent or make an adoption plan for their children.
(Denise) Outlawing abortion prevents SOME abortions. For example, a woman whose contraceptive failed and who is not terribly averse to the pregnancy itself, might seek an abortion if it is legal and therefore both easily available and “safe” — for the female aborting.
OTOH, a female who is absolutely averse to carrying to term, who feels like an animal whose paw has been caught in a trap, will not be deterred anymore than the animal will be deterred from gnawing off that paw. Illegality of abortion does not stop the female from aborting if pregnancy throws her into a state of absolute panic and revulsion.
It does stop her from aborting if she is simply “surprised.” I believe that this is what the criminalization side seeks to halt: the borderline female who would abort if it is legal and easy but just accept the “surprise” if it is illegal and therefore hard to get and dangerous. This goal is limited but can be viewed as valid.
Denise, I’m sorry, but that the fact that some women are mentally ill and will resort to self harm as a means of coping, is not an argument in the slightest for keeping abortion legal. Nor do I believe for a moment that the woman “gnawing her paw off” comprises the majority of women seeking abortions. Illegality has never stopped the commission of a single crime in the history of laws. Ever. There are always some people who will engage in criminal behavior, for reasons inspiring varying degrees of sympathy. Laws exist for many reasons, but the most basic is to prevent people from harming each other, even when that harm would benefit the law breaker. Abortion is wrong. Killing your children is wrong. The fact that some women will still do this even if it’s illegal, even if it harms them, is sad. But abortion is still wrong and a civilized society can never permit it and still pretend to value human life. Every right falls if we do not have the right to live.
CT says:
July 23, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Denise, I’m sorry, but that the fact that some women are mentally ill and will resort to self harm as a means of coping, is not an argument in the slightest for keeping abortion legal. Nor do I believe for a moment that the woman “gnawing her paw off” comprises the majority of women seeking abortions. Illegality has never stopped the commission of a single crime in the history of laws. Ever. There are always some people who will engage in criminal behavior, for reasons inspiring varying degrees of sympathy. Laws exist for many reasons, but the most basic is to prevent people from harming each other, even when that harm would benefit the law breaker. Abortion is wrong. Killing your children is wrong. The fact that some women will still do this even if it’s illegal, even if it harms them, is sad. But abortion is still wrong and a civilized society can never permit it and still pretend to value human life. Every right falls if we do not have the right to live.
(Denise) I have read that up to 3 million of the pregnancies in the US per year are unplanned and that roughly half of those end in abortion. What can we do to radically reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies?
From the other perspective, what would the results be if 1.5 million more babies are born in the US every year?
The best solution is a return to patriarchy. Women’s liberation has brought nothing but chaos.
It seems to me that abortion is a sub-set of the problems inherent in growing up female. A girl child reaches puberty and had strong desires for attention and affection. She also often has extremely strong erotic desires. All of these things can lead to sexual activity of one sort or another.
Trying to Just Say No to one’s most basic desires can lead to insanity.
How can we raise female children to adulthood without disastrous pregnancies and also without driving them crazy?
“Trying to Just Say No to one’s most basic desires can lead to insanity.”
No, it won’t. People who are on very restrictive diets do not go crazy. Human beings have the ability to control themselves. That is why we can hold them accountable for their actions. For instance, a rapist is not allowed to excuse his actions by saying that “saying no to one of his basic desires would lead him to insanity.”
Teach children the value of moderation and self-control instead of telling them (like PP does) that they have a right to have as much fun as they want in any way that they want.
Honestly Denise Noe!
Do you read what you have written before you hit Add Comment?
I suggest you talk to all of the women on this board that waited until they were married.
Take a random poll. Seek first to understand women and MEN that can and do abstain.
Ask them if they are crazy.
For RCJC and Carla: Don’t treat me like the enemy. I’m on your side in that I want to see abortions dramatically lessened. I’m appalled by abortions. But you can’t address problems by pretending they don’t exist. When I’ve pointed to problems with adoptions, people have responded in ways that indicate I’m making those problems up. Then we’re left with the mystery of way 1.5 million per year have abortions instead of taking this supposedly very attractive option of carrying to term and relinquishing a baby.
I know that unattractive, shy, lonely teen girls are frequently targeted for seduction. That is the basis of many pregnancies. It doesn’t help to pretend that there are no lonely teen girls or that males don’t exploit them. It would help to try to teach such girls how to put solitary time to good use or how to form relationships with people who won’t exploit them.
I’m not supposed to get explicit about sexual matters. However, that girls have powerful feelings when they hit puberty is fact. It doesn’t mean they must engage in behaviors that can lead to pregnancy. It does mean that repressing their desires can cause mental and emotional upheaval.
“Splendor in the Grass” is a classic movie because it speaks powerfully to the brutality inherent in making the transition between puberty in adulthood. In that film, the bad girl has “one of those awful operations.” The good girl spends a couple of years in a mental hospital.
Abortion is so upsetting that I think it is at least arguable that female mental illness is preferable to it — even though one would hope to raise girls who are both healthy and not inappropriately pregnant.
However, it’s not easy. If it were, there would be no need for this discussion since all females would be happily abstinent until they marry when they would become just as happily sexually active. Abortion would be extremely rare.
Trying to Just Say No to one’s most basic desires can lead to insanity.
How can we raise female children to adulthood without disastrous pregnancies and also without driving them crazy?
Um… well, I was pretty successful, as were several other people I know. In fact, I know some very bright, articulate, beautiful women in their mid to late 20s right now who have abstained from both sex AND insanity. Amazing, no?!
Your argument is really strange, and with your obsession upon all things sexual, it causes one to wonder whether you are some sort of pro-Kinseyite or just projecting.
Kel says:
July 25, 2011 at 11:39 am
Trying to Just Say No to one’s most basic desires can lead to insanity.
How can we raise female children to adulthood without disastrous pregnancies and also without driving them crazy?
Um… well, I was pretty successful, as were several other people I know. In fact, I know some very bright, articulate, beautiful women in their mid to late 20s right now who have abstained from both sex AND insanity. Amazing, no?!
(Denise) Can I assume that abortion is a kind of urban legend? It seems that the truth is that females simply don’t get pregnant unless they want to. They only have sex within the bounds of happy marriages. It would seem that this movement to outlaw abortion is rather pointless since you’re trying to outlaw something that almost never happens.
Trying to Just Say No to one’s most basic desires can lead to insanity.
On the contrary, there is more mental breakdown from post-abortion traumatic stress and divorce than from abstinence and traditional, indissoluble marriage.
“Just Say No” is an overly simplistic notion. The traditional family structure, morality, social expectations, and customs have for centuries served society, generally preventing pregnancies outside of marriage.
If, like good moderns, you fill kids full of sensual music and sloppy ideas about emotional fulfillment in relationships, put them in co-ed schools, clad them in suggestive or revealing clothing, and quit paying attention to your children while you go off to fulfill yourself in a high-powered career, boys and girls will wind up in bed together, unmarried.
If, on the other hand, women “Just say no” to careers while they are raising children, ”yes” to healthier forms of entertainment, “Yes” to appropriate work for children (to develop character) and “No” to co-ed middle-schools and high-schools and the current “sex ed,” curriculum and dating, we’d have fewer irresponsible relationships and pregnancies.
Parenting is all about teaching children how to discipline themselves so that their desires do not control them. This applies to eating, sleeping, entertainment, even work. Any essentially good and constructive human activity pursued in a selfish, careless, or destructive way is harmful and evil. Without some goal higher than mere juvenile self-satisfaction, we become slaves to our passions. Marriage channels the sexual impulse constructively, so that it is ordered to something more noble than self-gratification.
(Denise) Can I assume that abortion is a kind of urban legend? It seems that the truth is that females simply don’t get pregnant unless they want to. They only have sex within the bounds of happy marriages. It would seem that this movement to outlaw abortion is rather pointless since you’re trying to outlaw something that almost never happens.
What are you talking about? You stated that trying to say no can lead people to insanity. I’m saying that your view is nonsense unless you can prove to me that women and men who abstain from sex until marriage acquire some sort of mental imbalance as a result.
Kel says:
July 25, 2011 at 1:04 pm
(Denise) Can I assume that abortion is a kind of urban legend? It seems that the truth is that females simply don’t get pregnant unless they want to. They only have sex within the bounds of happy marriages. It would seem that this movement to outlaw abortion is rather pointless since you’re trying to outlaw something that almost never happens.
What are you talking about? You stated that trying to say no can lead people to insanity. I’m saying that your view is nonsense unless you can prove to me that women and men who abstain from sex until marriage acquire some sort of mental imbalance as a result.
(Denise) I have a close friend who is in her 40s and a virgin. She hasn’t suffered because of it although she says she is often lonely and isolated. She has a condition called Kahlman’s Syndrome. People who have it are arrested at a pre-puberty hormonal level. Even in her case, someone with no erotic desires, celibacy results in loneliness. She does have hobbies that she does in solitude.
I’m not saying at all that people must engage in the sort of behavior that can lead to pregnancy without going crazy. However, it is true that films like “Splendor in the Grass,” “Marnie,” and “Carrie” resonate with audiences because their psychologically unbalanced female protagonists resonate with a truth: females who are sexually repressed suffer psychologically and may become warped and sick.
It’s not about “saying no leading to insanity.” Young people can release certain types of tension and enjoy the gifts that nature bestows on their bodies without taking the risk of pregnancy. I don’t want to be graphic. Virginity isn’t dangerous. Repression is.