I am pro-choice! Why do I regret my abortion?
It was a very early, first-trimester abortion, but nevertheless, I was pregnant and I chose not to continue the pregnancy even though deep down I desperately wanted a child.
I made this choice based on my relationship with the baby’s father, who dropped me off at the clinic and I never saw again, despite having a three-to-four-year, on-and-off relationship. He promised me marriage and more children when we were ready for it, i.e. 5 or 10 years from now.
His last words to me were, “Don’t worry, I’ll be back.” But that never materialized.
I am only 25 (24 at the time of the abortion), but I am now convinced I missed my only chance to have a biological child. Is that crazy? I haven’t dated, least of all had sex with anyone, since that day. It feels like a part of me died that day and will never return.
I am no longer upset about the end of our relationship (good riddance!) but I am truly disturbed by the entire experience. I have nightmares about my experience at the clinic, though I know they followed every medical and legal step to the T. I wish I could forgive myself and move on, but I just can’t. I wake up every morning and it is the best minute of my life before the knowledge of what happened returns to me and the cycle of sadness and regret begins all over again.
I am a liberal woman and as pro-choice as you can be! Which is even more upsetting!
Can you please offer me advice on moving forward with my life and freeing myself from this unending cycle of regret?
~ Excerpt of a letter to advice columnist Cary Tennis by “Crushed with Regret,” as quoted by Salon, July 17
[Photo via walkonsister.wordpress.com]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Talking about the abortion, without acknowledging the full scope of what happened and who was involved (including your child) cannot provide the healing that is needed. Only trusting in Christ removes the guilt and provides hope for seeing your child. But the issue of your child’s father – that also needs resolution and healing.
Pregnancy resource centers that have been ministering to women who have had abortions can help, as well as Rachel’s Vineyard:
http://www.rachelsvineyard.org/
You also have a very serious question to ask yourself: if you remain pro-choice, and continue to advocate for abortions for others, then why would you want to put them through the same suffering you’re enduring?
The Salon advice is not going to explore that issue – which needs serious discussion.
The answer is simple, a baby died at your choice.
Because you are denying the very real grief in the loss of your child to abortion and your part in that death.
There is hope and healing after abortion.
National Helpline for Abortion Recovery
1-866-482-LIFE(5433)
I would be worried if a women did not feel some grief after an abortion….
Whether it’s past sin, the emotional damage of your loss or the stress of day to day life; there is way to find peace and rest. That peace and rest is found with our Lord, Jesus Christ.
“come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”(Matt. 11:28)
I am actually impressed that Salon published the letter. Most magazines make editorial choices like this based on what they think will resonate most with their readers. Could this be an acknowledgement of the pain that comes with abortion?
If you get the chance please read some of the comments on the article…..Wow.
Part of the advice that she got;
“You are lucky to be living now. Not too long ago, women suffered in silence after experiences like yours. Today, there are many services and groups to help. But knowing about them is not enough. You have to contact them.”
Once again it seems that legalizing and normalizing abortion is being spinned to sound like a good thing.
She was also sent to exhale.org. Part of Exhale’s core values; “Exhale believes abortion can be a normal part of the reproductive lives of women and girls.”
So instead of healing and freedom, she is going to be told that what happened is normal and she does not have to feel bad about it.
She doesn’t “have” to feel any certain way about it. The way she feels is the way she feels, and it won’t necessarily be the same or different from another given woman, or group of women.
Hindsight being 20/20, it sounds like she’d be better off not having banked on that particular guy, and not having had an abortion. There are no guarantees that a given decision won’t be regretted later on.
Wow… the comments…
“Now about this ******* you clearly aren’t over. Yes, you say you are, but you aren’t.”
“You are grieving. You’re grieving about the loss of the potential to have this child. You’re grieving the loss of the relationship you know you never really had. You’re grieving about the loss of having future children.”
“You know you had the abortion for the right reasons. The father was not father material. The father was not someone you would want to be tied to, and fighting with, for the next 18 years. You knew you weren’t in a position to give this child the life you want your children to have. But because this was the right thing for you to do, doesn’t mean that you won’t grieve.”
“Some counselling around the specific issue of post-abortion (from nice normal people like Planned Parenhood – not anti-choice maniacs that are going to make you feel worse) will help. Talk to close friends and family too.”
Amazing…
Well Doug you might want to read some of the comments over there.
The majority told her how to feel and that she probably wasn’t feeling regret about her abortion she was feeling bad about her relationship!!
Way to LISTEN to a grieving woman!! Way to BELIEVE it when she says she is hurting!
Oh and there was a comment about her “maybe baby.” Ugh.
Doug,
To say she would have been better off not having had an abortion DOES NOTHING to change the fact that she had one, her child died and now she needs help.
Tell me I shouldn’t have had my abortion, Doug. That helps me how exactly???
What is your advice to her, Doug? She is reaching out and asking so what will you tell her?
And just WHO is telling her how to feel? WHO is telling her that what she feels must not really be what she feels? WHO is telling her that it is the relationship she is feeling this way about?
Prolifers?
Try again.
It’s heartbreaking to read. Yes, it’s normal to miss your child. A pregnancy didn’t end, a child’s life did. We as mothers know it, in our bones, in between our atoms and molecules, we know it. I hope she moves away from other pro-choicers who try to minimize her experience.
Decades later, my baby’s daddy and I reconnected and became friends. He is just an ordinary man, not some bad guy cartoon character. I’d give anything to go back in time, and let us have a few arguments. By now the arguments would have been over, and a beautiful adult would be telling me, “Aw mom, cut dad a little slack.” Avoiding few fights aren’t worth ending a whole person’s life.
Eventually, you learn to adapt to your grief. It’s never completely gone, some things just can’t be gotten over. And moving on? Well, that’s for you to define, not a bunch of strangers on the internet. Moving on may involve more grief, just like getting out of the woods may involve walking through more trees until you find the light again.
I hope this young woman finds healing. I’ll put in a good word for her with the guy upstairs.
The pro-abort commenters are scary. This poor woman is in pain, and they turn her grief into a caricature. It’s impossible for them to admit that A BABY DIED. That is why she is grieving. The pro-abort community really doesn’t want women to feel guilt about abortion…..She is grieving because her son or daughter is dead and never coming back. She is not grieving her relationship or just stressing out because of a “tough decision.” She is grieving because her child is dead. Abortion is so, so sad. And those who support it make my skin crawl. They will do ANYTHING to obliterate “guilt feelings” just to make sure babies are killed in the name of “choice.”
There’s a diversity of experiences and wide-range of feelings a woman may have following a pregnancy loss (abortion, stillbirth, or miscarriage). She may experience anything from feelings of relief, to feelings of sadness, loss, or grief and everything imbetween and these feelings are all normal. Also, every woman’s experience is personal and complex. While there are women have no regret or negative feelings about their abortions, there are also those who may feel sad about it but feel they made a good decision; but there are also women who experience a more profound loss and grief and/or depression. There is no right or wrong way to feel. And every woman has the right to her own emotions, reactions, and feelings surrounding her abortion experience.
If you are reading this and find yourself or someone you love is struggling or seeking closure following your abortion, know that you/they are not alone. At the below link you will find a list of various post-abortion resources (websites, memorials, organizations, and books), some which are pro-life and some pro-choice. I encourage you to choose recovery resources which fit your values and beliefs system and where you feel safe, comfortable and welcome.
Abortion Recovery Resources
I wish you peace and healing
Yes it is incredible how the pro-choicers will direct her to just work through it, in other words, talk about it, apply the bandage of ‘self’ knowing, ‘self’ help, give yourself a break, you are ‘normal’ to feel bad and just time and talking with others who’ve been there and will undoubtedly encourage you in a bad situation to go there again….yes all that will provide healing…uh….NO, I don’t think so. Abortion goes against the very nature of a woman to protect and nuture her child. Cutting your hair short, pretending ‘choice’ is a good thing for women and then stuffing the pain into the closet in your soul won’t solve the problem. Salon and Exhale would be more HONEST to admit that abortion hurts women and should not be promoted as ‘normal’. What is normal about ripping a natural child from the womb? What is normal about a woman going against her instincts and killing her child because of whatever reason. Nothing is normal about it and getting the sin out on the table, talking about it, ‘sharing’ about it in group and then being told to ‘get over it’…’it’s your right!- it’s got to be right!’ is a big, sad joke.
Also, every woman’s experience is personal and complex.
Hmm, it won’t let me edit my post. The above was supposed to read “Also, every woman’s reaction and feelings are personal and complex”
And just WHO is telling her how to feel? WHO is telling her that what she feels must not really be what she feels? WHO is telling her that it is the relationship she is feeling this way about?
Carla, I think you and Laura Loo are, saying, “The answer is simple, a baby died at your choice,” and, “you are denying the very real grief in the loss of your child to abortion and your part in that death.”
Maybe she feels that way, and maybe not. Your feelings may not be the same as hers. If she does feel that way, what is the benefit in repeating it? I also don’t think she’s denying her grief.
___
Well Doug you might want to read some of the comments over there.
The majority told her how to feel and that she probably wasn’t feeling regret about her abortion she was feeling bad about her relationship!!
Way to LISTEN to a grieving woman!! Way to BELIEVE it when she says she is hurting!
Oh and there was a comment about her “maybe baby.” Ugh.
Yeah, there were some lame comments, to be sure. I had not read the comments at Salon, though now have read some. My earlier post was based only on what she was quoted as saying.
I have no reason to think she’s being false, but it’s rather an extreme scenario – her banking on this dude, despite an “on-and-off” relationship, him dropping her off at the clinic and never been seen again, etc. While I think many of them insensitive, I’m not surprised at the comments she got at Salon.
____
To say she would have been better off not having had an abortion DOES NOTHING to change the fact that she had one, her child died and now she needs help.
I would not tell her that, specifically. I would advise her to talk about her experience and feelings. It’s been a little over half a year, and things will probably change. She’s likely not missed her only chance to have a biological child, but it may take some time for her to meet the right person and feel like giving it a try.
Not saying I have anything to tell her that will “cure” her of her hurting. Don’t think it works that way.
___
Tell me I shouldn’t have had my abortion, Doug. That helps me how exactly???
Carla, I thought of you too. I don’t think that would help you at all. You have arrived at a measure of peace after the time since your abortion, and I think the same will eventually be true for the woman who’s the subject of this thread.
I don’t know whether I’ve ever asked this of you, but I assume that if you could do it all over again, you wouldn’t have the abortion. Likewise, it sounds to me like the woman above would not, either.
The part I wonder about is a bit philosophical – if I’m wrong anywhere, I’m sorry and in no way do I mean any disrespect to you nor am I saying you “should” feel any certain way. Given that you can’t go back in time, your life has changed in quite a few ways over the intervening years. You’ve met many people, and you have an outreach to other women (that I think is absolutely a good thing).
Do you wonder what all would be different if you *could* change things? I think I’ve seen you say in the past that “I’d have my daughter,” and again – sorry if I’ve got anything wrong. Beyond that, many other things would be changed as well.
Personally, there was no way to predict which way my life would go, yet in looking back it makes sense that this is the way things worked out. There were several times when had I gone a different way, it’d be a lot different now. I regard quite a few decisions as mistakes, yet I also wonder about the effect if I “wish that part of my life away,” or if I was able to change a given decision way back when. For me, it’s easy to think that if I erase a mistake, then things would automatically be better. Yet there really isn’t any way I can be sure of that.
For you, I think I know what your “greatest good,” would be – that you’d have your child, that you wouldn’t have had an abortion. I guess I’m just wondering about how you feel about everything else – that which is present now and which would be gone had you made a different decision.
Rest assured, if you had your brains sucked out (hyperbole, but you get the point), that you wouldn’t even have gotten the chance to ponder anything. I guess you should consider yourself lucky.
I think your being a little too hard on the commenters.
You forget that people aren’t giving this woman advice advance their pro-choice agenda, but they are pro-choice in the first place because they have sincere beliefs about the issue.
For instance they aren’t telling this woman to come to god and repent the death of her baby, because they don’t think it will do any good not because they hate God and don’t want to admit the deep down truth that she’s a baby murder. Because they genuinely don’t believe that she is a baby murderer, and they don’t think she needs to see herself as a baby murderer.
People try to show support for other people by validating the choice they made. ‘Didi you really want that man as a father’ isnt meant to dismiss her pain, its meant to make her feel better about a decision she ALREADY made. people like to feel they made the right decision. You may think that is wrong, but you need to understand there is no malice or agenda in (most) of the comments.
People aren’t trying to be sneaky and ‘conceal the death of her child.’ They just don’t view it that way. Disagree all you want with how this woman should heal, but i do think the remarks to her are genuine.
Is there any other medical procedure in life that we tell people how they should feel about?
If a woman miscarries and is sad about losing the baby – do we tell her not to be sad? If she is not sad, do we tell her to be sad? If a person has cancer, do we tell them how to feel about having it? If a person has a leg amputated … well, you get my drift …
I am always amazed at how everyone tells those who have had an abortion “how to feel” and that includes some really dumb pro-lifers and some really dumb pro-abortion minded people.
Enough blame for both sides of this issue – and the collateral damage is the woman – the woman who is hurting (or not) and being told what she should or should not feel.
Acknowledge the woman’s feeling without condemnation and without judgment statements … let her feel what she needs to feel and go through – only in that way will she be able to prayerfully be able to live her life with dignity and grace.
Shannon, I hear what you’re saying, but the problem is…what is CHOICE? It is a dead baby. I say this as a secular and otherwise liberal pro-lifer. It’s not about God and repenting and being Christian….it’s understanding what is being chosen. This is not a semantic right. This is not abstract. This is the only “right” that kills someone else. This is the only “medical procedure” in which the sole purpose is to kill a person and incinerate them. Maybe the commenters DO believe in “choice” so strongly that they refuse to see what that choice really is. I’m not much for religion, but I have to say, this quote by G.K. Chesterton is apt: “To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as being right in doing it.”
The commenters are indeed concealing the death of her child, because of their denial and their blindness and their ignorance. Abortion is nothing more than the legal killing of someone’s son or daughter, who never has a say in the matter, who is thrown away like garbage because of some twisted notion of “liberty” that doesn’t even exist in reality. Abortion is not okay. Abortion hurts women. And pro-aborts need to realize that this so-called “right” is destructive and dangerous. They need to witness a live abortion, and watch the baby try to get away from the abortionist’s tools, to be dismembered and then reassembled in a tray, like a human and bloody jigsaw puzzle, and then thrown into the fire. THAT IS WHAT PRO-CHOICE IS FIGHTING FOR. It is not okay, and it will NEVER be okay.
Who cares if the father was an idiot? This woman was most likely more than capable of raising and loving her child. Her child was killed because of a dude who wasn’t worth it. This woman is grieving because there is no such thing as “choice.” This woman is grieving because her child is dead, and for what? For nothing.
Dearest Doug,
My daughter would have been 21 in April. She has a name. Aubrey. My life would have been totally different had I been surrounded by loving folks telling me that I didn’t have to abort, that I could do it, that they would help me. Instead I was alone and told that she was “a bunch of cells.” A stark contrast indeed.
Only God can take my experience and redeem my pain and turn it into something else. If I hadn’t asked Him for help I would be dead. I tried to kill myself and was unsuccessful. He knows my heart. He knew it then and He knows it now. I will do whatever I can for women that don’t know what to do when they find out they are pregnant. I will do whatever I can for those struggling after their abortions when they finally realize their baby died.
I would give ANYTHING to go back there, Doug. ANYTHING to go back there and make it right.
This young woman is asking for help. Honestly asking for help. It is not about what others THINK her feelings are about OR what they THINK is causing her pain.
Deep down I think she knows. Her child died. Whether she faces that truth remains to be seen.
Poor woman. I hope she can find some help and solace.
Shannon,
Nobody has called her a baby murderer.
There is a vast difference in being called a baby murderer and facing the truth that you paid someone to murder your baby via abortion.
Think about it.
Why would anyone want to validate someone else’s choice when that choice is causing so much pain??? You think after reading all of those comments she will “feel better?”
Good grief.
The very best we can do for her is offer help and hope and healing.
http://www.rachelsvineyard.org
http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org
National Helpline for Abortion Recovery
1-866-482-LIFE
Carla, you are amazing. Thank you for all your kindness and compassion on this site!!
Is there any other medical procedure in life that we tell people how they should feel about?
Lee, abortion is not a “medical procedure.”
ninek,
Thank you! And what a joy to know you and read your words here!!
Hey, did anyone else see that many of the commenters are claiming the letter is a fake, written by some “anti-choice fanatic”? What do you think of that?
Abortion goes against the very nature of a woman to protect and nuture her child.
Yes, it does. Look at the way the body protects the baby. The cervix is tightly closed in order to protect the life inside. That safe space has to be forcibly opened in order for the abortion to proceed.
What is normal about a woman going against her instincts and killing her child because of whatever reason.
Don’t forget that men, too also have protective instincts. Many men suffer silently when their partner has an abortion, because it’s not fashionable to mourn for the “blob.”
My little grandson is six weeks now. Technically he is not my biological grandchild, but i still would gladly take a bullet for him. Sometimes I think we are no better than animals. Many animals, such as bears, will kill to defend their young, while we willingly destroy ours.
Hey, did anyone else see that many of the commenters are claiming the letter is a fake, written by some “anti-choice fanatic”? What do you think of that?
It makes me sad for the obviously hurting woman who wrote it. I can’t imagine the alienation and betrayal she feels from other pro-choicers right now.
I think that the comments on the “Salon” site come from a need to convince themselves more than a desire to help this woman. She represents everything that they want to deny, i.e. there was a child, that child’s life was ended (violently)& this “procedure” has hurt her (as it hurts all who experience it) & any acknowledgment of that blows in the face of so-called “choice”. It rattles their little cage. Indeed I think many of them are angry with this woman for realizing what she has done.
Mary Lee, given Salon’s propensity to not fact-check their sources (see Mikki Kendall, for example), it wouldn’t surprise me.
One of the pro-choice lies that I’ve heard a lot is that women would not feel guilt for abortion were it not for ‘conservatives’ or ‘pro-lifers’ or ‘religious right wingers’ or whatever name they give for the straw man that day. It is, at best, a terribly faulty and unprovable hypothesis, and at worst a deliberate lie.
In order to know if a woman were not influenced by ‘religious right wingers’ we would have to have a control group of post-abortive women who had never met or heard of a pro-lifer, a control group of women in a vaccuum without outside influence. AND we’d have to compare them to post-abortive women who had encountered pro-lifers.
Also, in order for the pro-choice hypothesis “YOU make us feel bad” to be true, we have to disregard instinct. Humans sure are wonderful creatures with big, honkin’ intellects, and sure, many people would like to believe we’ve evolved so far and above animals that we have no instinct at all. Then again, many people believe that we are nothing but animals with huge brains. The pro-choicers argue both. I have seen them argue both: we’re so intellectual and fancy, we can choose to kill our children, and we’re such animals we can’t possibly be expected to control our sexual urges.
We know the author quoted isn’t living in a vaccuum, but we also know that human’s aren’t completely devoid of all instincts which are typical for placental mammals. The truth is this: a woman will naturally have the instinct to protect her child, but a human woman can also be convinced to kill her child. In order NOT to feel guilt, either naturally or because people ‘made her feel that way’, a post-abortive woman has to do some pretty amazing mental acrobatics to get around her natural inclinations.
The pro-choicers commenting against the author of today’s quote can’t have it both ways. Relativism is no way to run a society. 1 plus 1 cannot equal both 2 and 3. Only one thing can be true. We are placental animals. We have a strong instinct and a strong intellect. We spend our lives balancing the two. Pro-choicers can’t have it all ways. We can’t have ‘abortion on demand without apology’ in a world of thinking, feeling human beings. We aren’t robots killing smaller robots. We’re people.
Females who have abortions spare themselves an extraordinary, life-scarring ordeal. Thus, they feel relief in the aftermath of it.
Early in the pregnancy (if not at the completion of conception), a human life exists. The female has had that life killed. For this reason, most females will be disturbed by having abortions. Many will become extremely disturbed and distressed.
Hallmark has a new card out:
The cover read: “Happy Life-Scarring Ordeal Day!”
Inside reads: “Dear Mom, although giving birth to me was a life-scarring ordeal for you, I hope that the handmade cards in kindergarden and first grade were in some small measure a source of comfort. Please know, dear mother of mine, that even though my birth was so traumatic for you, I will work hard to ensure that you are well taken care of later in life so that I can make it up to you what a punishment I have been by being alive. Thanks for putting up with me, Mom, and enjoy this card for Life-Scarring Day.”
I will sign it with x’s and o’s which signify hugs and kisses. Doncha feel all mushy and loving now?? Lol!
Females who have abortions spare themselves an extraordinary, life-scarring ordeal.
Denise, have you ever given birth to a child?
This kind of comment is absolutely over-the-top ridiculous.
“Females who have abortions spare themselves an extraordinary, life-scarring ordeal. Thus, they feel relief in the aftermath of it.”
Denise…. I’m sorry but how on earth is giving birth an “extraordinary, life-scarring ordeal?” It is extraordinary, but to most healthy females, it is a very natural occurrence. It is life-changing, beautiful, wonderful. And even if a woman isn’t happy to be a mother, I highly doubt that it’s “life-scarring.”
Ninek, you make me laugh Hahaha
Lee says:
July 19, 2011 at 12:44 pm
If a woman miscarries and is sad about losing the baby – do we tell her not to be sad?
Lee.. a miscarriage is not a “medical procedure”. And yes, some people DO tell you when you’ve had a miscarriage not to be sad. They act like there’s nothing to grieve about because (in their words) “It wasn’t even a baby yet, anyway”. My aunt wrote me an e-mail when she found out about my second miscarriage (she has no idea I’ve had three more since then) and ,basically, told me that “that’s what I get for trying to have another one (baby) anyway”. I’ve heard quite a few women say the same thing. People think they’re helping you “feel better” about losing your child by telling you it wasn’t a child yet, anyway, and by telling you “you can always try again”, as if it was just a “mistake” you made, and you get a “do over”.
Just wanted to make the point that yes, sometimes people DO tell you not to be sad. I think just because THEY don’t know how to deal with your grief. It makes THEM uncomfortable.
Kel says:
July 19, 2011 at 5:18 pm
Females who have abortions spare themselves an extraordinary, life-scarring ordeal.
Denise, have you ever given birth to a child?
This kind of comment is absolutely over-the-top ridiculous.
(Denise) I used to take the position that there should be a national campaign to persuade females tempted to have abortions to carry to term and place their babies for adoption. To that end, I tried to talk with those who did this. I emailed a married woman who was strongly opposed to abortion. She didn’t feel that she and her husband were prepared to raise a child as yet. She decided to carry to term and surrender for adoption. She wrote, “The past few months have been sheer hell.” I asked her why and she replied, “You’ve never had an unplanned pregnancy, have you? You feel like your body has been invaded. It gets even worse as the pregnancy goes along.”
A book called “The Girls Who Went Away” recounts the ordeals of teen girls and young women in the “old days” who were in unwed mothers’ homes and gave babies up for adoption.
To encourage the adoption option, I suggested a practice of having a shower for relinquishing mothers in which they be given new clothes and other non-baby presents. Someone called this suggestion “macabre and foul.” Another compared it to having a party for a cancer patient. Another person said, “I think such a mother would want to mourn. It would be like having the baby die. I can’t see anything good about it.” The person who made the last comment strongly believes abortion should be outlawed.
My comments were based on the above.
Oh, no, Denise Noe. No no no. I have been through two crisis pregnancies (one when I was for “choice,” and that ended in a miscarriage and the beginning of a pro-life conversion), and my “life-scarring ordeal” is now on the couch, reading. Sure I had to rearrange things for her, but I didn’t give it a second thought. She is worth it. All children are worth it. My love for my daughter obliterated my fear and confusion, the moment I saw her heart beating on the ultrasound at 8 weeks. She is the love of my life, and I do not regret what I could have “achieved” if I had aborted her. Children are not a “life-scarring ordeal.” ABORTION is a life-scarring, life-destroying act.
“You’ve never had an unplanned pregnancy, have you? You feel like your body has been invaded. It gets even worse as the pregnancy goes along.”
I am pretty sure she doesn’t speak for all women who have had unplanned pregnancies. My wife and I didn’t plan our daughter, and I am pretty sure I freaked out way more than she did. And of course, our “mistake” is a beautiful and loved seven-month-old today.
Should there be showers for females who give babies up for adoption?
How should it be celebrated?
“Should there be showers for females who give babies up for adoption?
How should it be celebrated?”
Financial and emotional support, caring and compassion, etc. What are you implying and WHY are you obsessing over adoption on every darn thread?
Did either of you read “The Girls Who Went Away”? I didn’t but I read reviews, all of which indicated that many women — who placed babies for adoption — felt “bitter” and scarred by the experience. One of them said, “I’d have an abortion any day of the week before I’d have a baby and give it up for adoption again. It’s like having a baby and leaving the baby in a forest.”
It might actually help the outlaw abortion cause if you acknowledged what you are demanding. You can easily argue, “One person’s ordeal does not equal another person’s death. We can legally demand that a pregnant female complete the pregnancy regardless of how horrible the ordeal may feel or how deeply it may leave her scarred.” You can say that the pregnant female’s trauma is worth it if it leads to saving a human life.
Anytime you make a decision about anything there is a 50/50 chance you will regret your decision. The great thing about abortion is that if you regret your decision you can just get pregnant again and choose not to abort this time…
You know there are a lot of women who regret getting an abortion but would not make a different decision if given the same choice over again because even though they regret their decision it was still the best option for them at the time.
I am against IVF but only because there are so many children waiting for parents. If there were no orphanages I would have no problem with it.
Freedom = Choices
” The great thing about abortion is that if you regret your decision you can just get pregnant again and choose not to abort this time…”
You child is still dead though. Having another child doesn’t change the fact that the first one died, and it doesn’t take away the regret.
The great thing about abortion……wow. Keep yapping Biggz.
I am sure it would be great to just get pregnant again but for many of us the scarring from abortion rendered us infertile.
Jack,
I am so glad you are here.
Aww thanks Carla. :)
Hi Denise Noe,
I think you make a lot of important points here that frankly just get ignored.
You want to end abortiion, even as a pro-choicer I can respect that. To accomplish that you ask the necessary questions about adoption and how to make it more feasible for women.
No one on this blog will acknowledged the questions you ask or the fact the pregnancy is a big freaking deal.
If pro-lifers want to tell women ‘you made your choice you will have this baby whether you like it or not because its best for the baby’ i don’t agree, but i respect the directness.
But if women like denise are telling you stories where women said PREGNANCY WAS NOT WORHT IT. I gave up too much, and you ignore it, saying pshhhh ‘it was worth it to me, this woman is mistaken, she really enjoyed pregnancy it is beautiful’ you are ignoring something real and necessary to end abortion
Fine, Pregnant women should have the baby whether they like it or not. Does that work?
Tongue in cheek aside, don’t think that the great majority of us do not have sympathy for women (and men) dealing with unplanned or unwanted pregnancies. That’s why we support programs to help the woman or couples prepare to keep their baby or give it up for adoption, both emotionally and financially. Pro-life groups want to help every woman. I don’t think I have ever said that pregnancy is always some sacred or blessed event, because it isn’t the truth for everyone. Regardless of that, it is still a fact that the unborn child doesn’t need to be killed.
Freedom = Choices
—
That is false. I can’t go outside and choose to run someone over with my car. I can’t go outside and choose to beat someone to death. I can’t go outside and choose to rob someone. And so on and so forth. Does that mean I’m not free or have no freedom? Or does it mean something else?
People are entrusted with a manner of freedom because it’s assumed that they won’t do wrong or bring harm to another. “Choice” does not exist in a vacuum where “choice” means “freedom” and “no choice” means “no freedom”.
Recently, I was introduced to a pleasant lady from Planned Parenthood, who told me that I was the first woman she had met who regretted her abortion. I told her I was surprised that she had not met any sooner – or maybe she is living in a parallel universe. This being that the pro-choicers describe as “parasite”, “invader” happened to be my child, my offspring. I am grateful that some abortion rights advocates are beginning to recognize that truth. The mother should not be the enemy of the child. We all suffer as a consequence.
Hello Denise -
I read The Girls Who Went Away. It was heart-wrenching. I absolutely believe that there have traditionally been problems of exploitation and objectification surrounding how we treat adoption and adoptive mothers. Two stories stand out in my mind from that book, amidst the chorus of voices. The first was a girl who got unexpectedly pregnant at 14 or 15 and was thrilled. I may be confusing some of the details here but I think this all pertains to the same girl. She and her high school boyfriend had all kinds of naive, idealistic plans for how their lives would be; he had a paper-route job or something like that. Her father came home early one day and saw her in a bikini and immediately recognized that she was pregnant, and she was sent away to wait until she could give the baby up for adoption. Afterwards, her ex-boyfriend wrote to her in a letter once, “You’re so bitter now! You were never bitter.” Such a callous and oblivious treatment of young mothers was shocking to me, as I read that! As if anyone could be anything BUT bitter!
The other story that stuck out at me was a woman who was basically similarly coerced to give her child up for adoption as a teenager. In her twenties she went through a reckless phase, likely due to the trauma she’d been through, and got unexpectedly pregnant again. She had an abortion the second time and said in the interview process (decades later) that the abortion was far, far easier than the adoption process.
Obviously something was and perhaps sometimes still is HORRIBLY wrong with the adoption process. Adoption is never an ideal choice but it is better than some; is abortion a better choice than any?
Shannon, pregnancies terminate, always. It is not a permanent condition, and it is not a disease. I had horrific morning sickness…..and I am emetophobic. Who cares? My daughter was more important than my discomfort. My life was never worth more than hers, NOT EVER. She was not a “choice”—she was a person, with a right to live. I was pro “choice” once, too, and then I realized what a pack of lies it is. When I was going through hell, it was pro-lifers who helped me, not those who think my daughter was some sort of non-human entity without value. Give me a break. Pregnancy IS no big deal. Not compared to abortion. Abortion is PERMANENT. Pregnancy is not. And motherhood? IS WORTH IT, no matter how difficult it is. Life is difficult. You pro-aborts have a pretty grotesque sense of entitlement. Life isn’t easy, but it is beautiful. We do not deserve to kill our own children to get what we want. That is inexcusable.
Are there any other cases where killing a child is acceptable to the alternative?
Let’s face it, the world isn’t perfect. There are always going to be problems. Not every woman is going to be happy to be pregnant, not every man is going to be happy to be a father. Abuse and neglect is always going to exist. CPS is awful and ineffective sometimes. We should all be working to improve on these things, We need to support women in whatever they choose to do with an unplanned child, whether it be adoption, keeping the child and raising it, or whatever she feels like is in her and the kid’s best interest. Killing the child isn’t ever in the best interests of the child. Even if some women found abortion to be a less traumatic experience than adoption, it does not change the fact that there is still a dead child as a result of abortion. How is a dead kid a solution to anything?
Jen and Pamela – abortion is a medical procedure, and a horrid one at that – for it always results in the death of a baby. A miscarriage, often has a medical procedure (D and C) done in its aftermath. A woman will generally seek medical attention after a miscarriage to make sure that she is alright.
My point was that people who tell others how to “feel” after having had a miscarriage are mistaken in their belief that you can just have another child and it will all go away – that the child that you miscarried can somehow become another child. I understand that, Pamela – I have also suffered a miscarriage, and I am sorry for your loss. No one can tell you how to feel … you feel what you feel.
With abortion, though – most people tell you what you MUST feel and so many suffer in silence – and that is why I am SILENT NO MORE. One child lost to miscarriage – my first child and my second to abortion.
“I don’t have much nice to say to you.
Being a woman is a big responsibility. Sure, we would like to have men be as responsible as us, and many men do want to have a say in these matters, yes or no.
But every woman must search herself, long before the first scare of a missed period. What is her own basic feeling about being pregnant and having a child? Not having the cop-out of what the man wants, what your family wants, what your church wants.
If you are dead-set against abortion for yourself, don’t ever have one. If you are pro-choice, search yourself to know if you will be full of regret or guilt. If so, don’t have one. If you secretly want to have a baby, no matter what your circumstance, don’t have an abortion.
We are the ones who become pregnant. It is our responsibility to be women, not little girls.
Don’t come on here and whine about how you let your fantasies about a man made you do something you can’t handle.
I guess you need some therapy.”
One of the comments on Salon over that story.
Remind me how pro-lifers got the reputation for being heartless?
Seriously.
“It might actually help the outlaw abortion cause if you acknowledged what you are demanding”
We are demanding that when faced with a pregnancy (the vast majority of which are a result of your voluntary reproductive behavior), you don’t get to ‘deal with it’ by killing the baby. Yes – you are going to face hard choices. Adoption is not easy. But you do not get to kill your child to solve your problems.
Shannon, I largely ignore Denise b/c the thrust of all her posts is “adoption is really hard, being pregnant when you don’t want to be is really hard, some women just don’t WANT to be pregnant, or my personal favorite, women have to choose between putting out for companionship or being alone…” etc. And there’s only so many times you can say, “that is really hard. we can try to offer help in those areas. Maybe there are ways to improve adoption. still can’t kill your child to make your life easier.”
@phillymiss, your comment is so true: “Don’t forget that men, too also have protective instincts. Many men suffer silently when their partner has an abortion, because it’s not fashionable to mourn for the ‘blob.'”
I stand outside a Planned Parenthood every Saturday talking to teens going in for birth control, morning-after pills, etc. One young boy told me his friend carries in his wallet a well-worn ultrasound of his child who was aborted in spite of his attempts to stop it. He gets the picture out and tells whoever will listen, “This was my baby.” So, so sad. He will never forget his first child he never knew and couldn’t save from death. Lord, may he find healing in You.
@JackBorsch: No kidding. I was scraping my jaw off the floor after reading that one.
No kidding, Alice. I read through all those comments in absolute shock. And lifers are the misogynists? Sheesh.
JackBorsch says:
July 19, 2011 at 7:39 pm
Fine, Pregnant women should have the baby whether they like it or not. Does that work?’
(Denise) Not quite. “Carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term can be a dreaded and devastating ordeal but it must be legally required because the value of the life of a human baby outweighs the ordeal demanded of the human female.”
Will you sign off on that, Jack?
I’ll sign off on it, Denise Noe. Yes, a baby’s right to exist trump the woman’s “right” to be temporarily uncomfortable. The majority of pregnancies aren’t that.
I’m so glad somebody is talking about miscarriages and infertility as a result of abortion. I have met several women who have experienced those as a result of abortion. You don’t hear any of THAT from the pro-abort crowd. I guess they figure if it’s ok to kill an innocent human being so the mother doesn’t have to be ‘inconvenienced’ by a 9 month pregnancy so it’s ok if the mother never has any more children. Children are just such a bother anyway.
Personally, I was growing pre-cancer on my cervix from hpv. This was as a result of the ‘sex with no consequences’ thinking that planned parenthood schleps on the world and has been since I was teen. “Don’t tell your parents what you are doing, just come to us, we have all the answers little girl”. And oddly enough the pre-cancer was growing on WHAT? The scar tissue from prying open my cervix to abort 3 babies. So a hysterectomy and no more beautiful pregnancy and wonderful children for me. The REAL and TRUE consequences of abortion and ‘free sex’ are harsh and it’s time the world REALLY talked about it.
Biggz says ‘so many children waiting for parents’…really? Right now there are 1.5 million couples waiting to adopt in the US alone. If women chose to place children for adoption instead of abortion, there would be more citizens, we would not be in a demo-graphic winter on the planet and economies would still be thriving. If you don’t know what a demo-graphic winter is – go educate yourself, please. The child abuse rate since abortion became legal in the US has increase by 300%….the value of human life is the issue. We are in an outrage if an old oak gets cut down to warm somebody’s house or a whale is killed to feed people, but we throw babies in the trash and call it ‘freedom’…
Jana, I am so sorry for what you’ve been through. :(
Me too, Jana, that is a heartbreaking story. *hug*
“Not quite. “Carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term can be a dreaded and devastating ordeal but it must be legally required because the value of the life of a human baby outweighs the ordeal demanded of the human female.”
Will you sign off on that, Jack?”
Fine, sure. Whatever you are trying to do here, you aren’t going to get me to say that saving a child’s life isn’t worth it.
Some Guy – Yes you have the freedom to walk out your front door and stab someone, it happens every day. You still have to live with the consequences of your actions but you do have the freedom to make that choice. If you abort a fetus you will have to live with the consequences, in this case it is a massive chemical change in the body that causes depression if the pregnancy has gone on long enough. Sometimes if you have an abortion after the first couple months there can be scaring and other issues but this is a vast minority according to the numbers. Thanks to things like the morning after pill less termination are happening in the later stages of pregnancy.
Jana – There are 1.5 million couples in America waiting to adopt BABIES not children over the age of 4 or 5… Nobody lining up to adopt them… as a rule I have given up trying to post links on this blog so you will have to look up the Dave Thomas Foundation and see how many non-babies are waiting to be adopted.
Carla – Yes I know there are sometimes complications that will make it impossible to become pregnant again after an abortion. This is by far the minority though. Most women who have had one abortion have had more than one which in itself shows how easy it is for most women to become pregnant after they have had an abortion.
Respectfully I have to ask, would you regret your abortion as much if you would have had the chance to become pregnant again? It is my understanding that your abortion made this impossible and I am wondering about the emotional backlash and how it would be effected by another pregnancy. My cousin and his wife had a son who died of SIDS and although they never forgot about their first son, having a second son seemed to take some of that pain away. I know not all women who have had abortion regret it but for the ones that do would maybe another pregnancy or adoption help with that pain?
I know some women regret their decision to have an abortion and today there is help available to them, however most women do not have regrets and even have a second or third procedure later in life. I do have sympathy for women who regret their decision but not as much as parents who lost their children to SIDS or anything else beyond their control. They were never asked if they wanted to keep their children, they just lost them.
There are 1.5 million couples in America waiting to adopt BABIES not children over the age of 4 or 5… Nobody lining up to adopt them… as a rule I have given up trying to post links on this blog so you will have to look up the Dave Thomas Foundation and see how many non-babies are waiting to be adopted.
Those would be children in foster care. It takes quite a while and some serious stuff to terminate parental rights. You realize that, right? And I would also hope that families who do adopt older children are provided with free counseling and resources for them and their children, because adopting an older child is much more fraught with difficulty due to childhood trauma issues and possible psychological disturbances. This takes time, and it can have a huge toll on an adoptive family. Abandonment isn’t something you get over easily and quickly – and sometimes, you just don’t.
I know not all women who have had abortion regret it but for the ones that do would maybe another pregnancy or adoption help with that pain?
That’s kind of like saying “I know your 3-year-old was just hit by a car and killed, but maybe it would help you to just have another one.”
Thanks to things like the morning after pill less termination are happening in the later stages of pregnancy.
Why does it matter how late the termination is? (Oh, I bet I already know the answer to this one – more risk for the woman later on?)
Thanks to the also early abortion medication, RU-486, in the US, so far 14 women have died and 2,200 women have have had serious consequences, including 612 hospitalizations (339 – major blood transfusions; 256 – various infections).
You do realise how many “Dear Whoever” leters are, um, generated to enable the columnist to push their own agenda don’t you?
Dear Reality,
Why does it matter if the letter is fake, you know for a fact that some women have a lot of regret. You interact with them on this blog every day.
Sincerely yours,
Jack ;)
Yes Jack, there are those who have regret. Yet I still feel that there is an element of overplaying at work in instances such as this.
Well that may be true. But it is the internet, don’t you think most people know to take anonymous stuff with a grain of salt? And my point still stands. Many of the women here could have written that letter, and it would be about the same thing.
Mary Lee: Hey, did anyone else see that many of the commenters are claiming the letter is a fake, written by some “anti-choice fanatic”? What do you think of that?
While I don’t simply not believe it, it is a bit “over the top,” so no surprise that some people think it’s not really the true story. Either way, according to the account, it’s far short of a year yet, and things change – if true, hopefully for the better for her.
Yes they could have Jack, and with truth. But it doesn’t hurt a campaign to exaggerate the numbers does it. (oh oh, here they come!)
I’m not claiming it’s a construct, just questioning it.
Why does it matter if the letter is fake, you know for a fact that some women have a lot of regret. You interact with them on this blog every day.
Jack, there, I would say that anecdotal evidence isn’t really the deal. I would not presume to say that an individual’s feelings “were not valid,” but the question remains – does it have any broad application to the abortion debate.
In the same vein, a story of a woman who didn’t have an abortion when she had significant thoughts that she should, which resulted in an account of horror of more suffering that could take place on the part of a thousand unborn, would you say it doesn’t matter if it’s fake or not?
I would give ANYTHING to go back there, Doug. ANYTHING to go back there and make it right.
Carla, thanks for the reply. I thought you would do that, if you could. Yet since that’s not possible, I was asking about your feelings, if any, as to the parts of your life that would be lost were it possible.
____
This young woman is asking for help. Honestly asking for help. It is not about what others THINK her feelings are about OR what they THINK is causing her pain.
Deep down I think she knows. Her child died. Whether she faces that truth remains to be seen.
Really, though, does it matter whether she agrees with you that “child” applies? If we take the story at face value (and she may well agree with you, then) she is already feeling as she’s feeling. That’s the real truth, not her chosen terminology or beliefs.
Jack, I am really, really glad you’re here!!!!!! *FIST BUMP*
“Yes they could have Jack, and with truth. But it doesn’t hurt a campaign to exaggerate the numbers does it. (oh oh, here they come!)
I’m not claiming it’s a construct, just questioning it.”
Well, unless someone posts their home address and clinic records you aren’t really going to know. I would rather just take it at face value. No point in hurting someone unnecessarily, some of the commenters on Salon were downright vicious.
” In the same vein, a story of a woman who didn’t have an abortion when she had significant thoughts that she should, which resulted in an account of horror of more suffering that could take place on the part of a thousand unborn, would you say it doesn’t matter if it’s fake or not?”
Again, unless there was some solid evidence that it wasn’t real, I would just take it at face value. It doesn’t change my opinions. I try not to argue with appeals to emotion anyway, anecdotal evidence is weak. There are real scientific arguments and human rights arguments for the pro-life position. Some people may be swayed by more emotional arguments, but it isn’t really my style. I do believe, though, that jumping all over people and accusing them of making up stuff makes both sides look bad.
Thank you Mary Lee *Bump back*
Jack, as far as “not real,” this part right here:
I am only 25 (24 at the time of the abortion), but I am now convinced I missed my only chance to have a biological child. Is that crazy?
Well, yeah, that’s pretty crazy.
“Well, yeah, that’s pretty crazy.”
You don’t think depression can cause some not-too-rational thoughts? When I was depressed I thought crazier things than that.
Yes you have the freedom to walk out your front door and stab someone, it happens every day. You still have to live with the consequences of your actions but you do have the freedom to make that choice.
Umm…I don’t know what world you’re living in, but in my country, you can be arrested for making that “choice” if someone finds out you have made that choice and haven’t yet acted upon it. Google “arrested threatened to kill” and you’ll find tons of stories. So no. That’s strike one.
If you abort a fetus you will have to live with the consequences, in this case it is a massive chemical change in the body that causes depression if the pregnancy has gone on long enough.
Ohhhh….So all this “post-abortion trauma” is just silly little women with their hormones going all crazy, and not the fact that they paid someone to kill their child. I bet you’re the kind of guy who would tell his wife she’s just upset with you because it’s her time of the month and not because she’s asked you nicely to do your share of the chores 15 times and you’ve blown her off every single time. And yet pro-lifers are misogynists. Tell me another story, daddy. 9_9
There are 1.5 million couples in America waiting to adopt BABIES
SPOILER ALERT: Fetuses that don’t get aborted ARE babies. WHA?!
Respectfully I have to ask (the most disrespectful question EVAR!):
Would you regret your abortion as much if you would have had the chance to become pregnant again?
Do you have kids? This statement is seriously troubling to me if you do. Like, SERIOUSLY. If my husband came up to me after our kid died and said, “Don’t worry, honey. I’ll get you another one.” I would assault him. I’m not even going to beat around the bush with this comment I’m making-I would seriously attempt to cause bodily harm to him because I would just be so absolutely incensed at his lack of compassion, empathy, basic human decency, and the prominent display of what can only be described as either sociopathy or psychopathy, I’m not sure what the right one is for this instance, but it’s gotta be one of the two. How are you even a functioning member of society, dude? Do the people who love you realize that all human beings are completely interchangeable to you? Please get help.
I do have sympathy for women who regret their decision but not as much as parents who lost their children to SIDS or anything else beyond their control. They were never asked if they wanted to keep their children, they just lost them.
And conspicuously absent from the list of those you feel sorry for are those who have actually lost their lives, either by natural causes or the will of their parents. Once again, quite telling.
Yes you have the freedom to walk out your front door and stab someone, it happens every day.
That’s all I read. Please tell me what country you live in, so I can strike it off my lists of countries I’d love to visit someday. Unlike you who seems to live in some country I’ve not heard of, I live in the U.S., and if I were to go outside and stab someone, I’d be thrown in jail. You’re conflating being allowed to make a “choice”, and making that “choice” even if the law prohibits you from doing so.
One of them said, “I’d have an abortion any day of the week before I’d have a baby and give it up for adoption again. It’s like having a baby and leaving the baby in a forest.”
This is something I’ve always found mystifying. They’re having trouble coping with the loss of their baby, and feeling as though the child has died. But…the child HASN’T died. When they abort, the child most definitely HAS died…Why the mourning for a child that isn’t dead in the adoption scenario and the seeming (by comparison) lack of concern for the very real, and very dead baby in the abortion scenario? Can I just say “wtf”? “It’s like having a baby and leaving it in the forest (to die?)” guess what: abortion IS MORE like “having a baby and leaving it in the forest (to die)”. I just can’t fathom this line of thinking AT ALL.
Obviously you are not alone in not understanding that thinking xalisae (and that is not meant as a criticism). But it is exactly what I have been trying to impart. That is how many people see the situation and why abortion will never be defeated. People really do see a fetus and a born baby as distinctly different.
People really do see a fetus and a born baby as distinctly different.
Perception doesn’t change reality. We have to overcome this ignorance with fact.
Reality doesn’t change perception. Particularly since there are differences.
That’s silly, Reality. Do you propose we make laws simply based on perception?
Yay, my picture showed up. :)
At the risk of dabbling any more than a toe into what may lead us to the morass which is philosophy Jack, I think that to an extent at least, they are. I think of things such as anti-miscegenation laws, maybe even prohibition.
Gees, I didn’t realise you are that young!
“I think that to an extent at least, they are. I think of things such as anti-miscegenation laws.”
And that would be the problem when you make laws based solely on perception, with no real evidence to back it up.
Lol, my little baby girl. :)
“with no real evidence to back it up” – and people have differing perceptions on what the ‘evidence’ is too.
Not everyone agrees with every law. Like I said, it’s a morass.
Cute kid. Of course I think mine are cuter, but that’s just my perception ;-)
“and people have differing perceptions on what the ‘evidence’ is too.”
But in the case of abortion, the evidence is pretty devastatingly simple. We can agree that a developing fetus is human, has it’s own DNA, and left to it’s own devices will (barring any unfortunate accidents) develop into an autonomous human being. We may disagree about whether body autonomy rights trump the right to life, but we can agree on what science says.
“Not everyone agrees with every law. Like I said, it’s a morass.”
We don’t need total agreement to make laws. I think marijuana should be legal, and think it’s ridiculous and counter-productive to prosecute minor drug offenders, but people are still battling over the legalities of the issue.
” Cute kid. Of course I think mine are cuter, but that’s just my perception ”
See, now I know why you are pro-choice. It’s completely obvious my kids are the most adorable children in the world, and you can’t even see that. :D How old did you think I was, by the way? I’m twenty-three.
“the evidence is pretty devastatingly simple” – well, some of it. Yes a fetus is a member of the human species. Yes a fetus has it’s own DNA. Just like any mammal. Beyond that it’s a matter both of perception and what is important (as cringeworthy as that may seem to some). That’s where the differences lie.
“I think marijuana should be legal, and think it’s ridiculous and counter-productive to prosecute minor drug offenders” – I agree, the whole ‘war on drugs’ thing has proven to be so damaging in so many ways.
“but people are still battling over the legalities of the issue.” – I think they’re actually battling over their perceptions and that’s what drives their approach to the legalities.
Pfft. I think my nieces are cuter. My son is older than you (groan) :-)
Eh, well I don’t agree with you, big surprise I know. The evidence is pretty clear to me, and at to least half of America.
I’m not equipped to get in a philosophical argument about it, I’ll leave that to you and rasqual and your guys’s ridiculously long posts.
And, my daughter beats your nieces hands down in the cute contest. ;)
“at to least half of America” – well kinda, maybe, sorta, to an extent, in certain circumstances. From what I saw of the stats anyway. And if propaganda campaigns are run hard enough for long enough the number of people supporting the proposition will increase.
I think rasqual’s wordcount exceeds mine.
Well she is actually your daughter whereas my nieces aren’t mine, so on grounds of perception you win :-)
(I got sin-binned on the other thread, naughty me, lesson learned)
I’m not equipped to get in a philosophical argument about it, I’ll leave that to you and rasqual and you guys’ ridiculously long posts.
And, my daughter beats your nieces hands down in the cute contest.
Ha! Jack, you’re a good guy.
Gotta say – Rasqual and I are going to be on opposite sides, here, most of the time, but Rasqual is a winner; love the discourse.
But, on philosophy, tell you what – it *all* comes down to philosophy.
“Ha! Jack, you’re a good guy.
Gotta say – Rasqual and I are going to be on opposite sides, here, most of the time, but Rasqual is a winner; love the discourse. But, on philosophy, tell you what – it *all* comes down to philosophy.”
Eh, I know my strengths and philosophy isn’t one of them. Cars, guitars and math is about it. You guys go over my head a lot. But thanks. ;)
Jack, no problem – I like cars, guitars and math too, though I have no skill with any musical instrument. Oh philosophy, I’d just say that we all make unprovable assumptions. It’s where those assumptions diverge that the arguments begin.
Since 1973 (or 1970 in a couple states) there’s been another, much larger group of “girls that went away.” ones who will NEVER be able to tell their stories in a book.
I came here for help. All I found were reasons to be glad I don’t yet need to support and protect another living being from the vast majority of crazy opinionists who make it impossible for light to shine in good people
What kind of help are you looking for Jo?
No uterus, no opinion.
PS Don’t breed em if you can’t feed ’em! I’m tired of paying taxes to support these single mothers who had options available to them. I don’t mean abortion necessarily, but there are birth control CHOICES out there. Once they take away our “choices” we will be a barefoot and pregnant society once again. Women, take a stand and protect what our foremothers fought for…
Once again, I have to state it: No uterus, No opinion.
Also, to “Crushed with Regret,” you are grieving over what might have been. Your pregnancy may have went full term(or to a viable age), it may not have. There is no proof that you would have carried the baby-check the statistics on miscarriage rate…I’m only stating the obvious that pro-lifers always forget to mention.
Don’t feed the troll, y’all… even if it’s named after a friendly greeting.
And Jack: math definitely trumps philosophy! :)