Stanek weekend question: Would you watch a live-streamed home birth?
Mashable reported on September 30:
A chiropractor in Ottawa gave an unusual invitation to the World Wide Web this week.
“Hi, I’m Dr. Nancy Salgueiro with YourBirthCoach.com,” [pictured right, with her family] she said in a YouTube video, “and I’d like to invite you into my home to watch my live birth online.”
The mother of two, who runs a website that promotes natural birth, has set up a sign-up list for access to the live stream on that site and her Facebook Page. About 800 people have already signed up to watch…. Her 2-year-old son will cut the umbilical chord.
Even the thought of a front seat to the miracle of life is enough to make many people’s stomachs turn. And that is exactly Salgueiro’s point.
“The reason why I’m doing this is because in our culture we’ve created this idea with fear and this visual image of what birth is,” she says, “and we don’t know what to expect when we’re going to give birth. And I really believe it’s important for women to see what normal, natural birth is like.”…
Commenters… have accused her of attention grabbing, removing the last private arena from the world and being gross. “What happens if something goes wrong during the birth?,” “Is she looking for sponsors?,” they ask.
The audience for which the live stream is intended, women considering natural births, seems to be appreciative.
“I am 2 1/2 months pregnant with my first, and planning a homebirth with this baby,” reads one of many supportive messages on her website. “I think this is wonderful and empowering, and you are very brave.”
It’s too late to sign up to watch Nancy’s home birth, since her baby boy was born October 16. Here’s video of that birth, although I think the video of the birth of Nancy’s second child was much better…
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo7dVOtR6EU&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
So what do you think? Should births be private or public? Are births gross or miraculous? What do you think about home births? What do you think about live-streaming deliveries?
As an ob/gyn nurse, I’m nervous about home births, generally speaking. But I wasn’t about this one, since the mom was obviously educated and capable, and since she’d already experienced two previous home births. And obviously, I think watching the miracle of birth is beautiful. They get me every time.
Your thoughts?
[HT: Women’s eNews on Twitter]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I have watched a home birth before and it one of the most beautiful things that God has allowed to happen on Earth. I believe that it should be up the individual, provided that they understand what they are doing and not posing a risk to their child and themselves. I, myself, would rather be in the hospital setting during delivery in case of complications.
A birth is miraculous….
if they should be kept private? well…that’s up to the viewer really. if they want to broadcast their birth, that’s one thing – but we as viewers don’t have to watch it….
She made that look easy!!
Totally would watch it!! I am always amazed at the miracle of life and childbirth!!
Used to love watching that one birthing show. Can’t remember the name. :)
I don’t really have strong feelings either way, regarding where births happen and who sees them. I don’t like our medical system’s treatment of pregnancy and labor, for the most part, and while I am not nervous about home births, I would probably choose a birthing center myself, assuming my pregnancy was healthy and normal. But I know quite a few people who’ve given birth in their NYC apartments, with family there. I know one woman who did so unintentionally – she e-mailed us a budget proposal one evening, ordered a pizza for herself and her 2.5-year old daughter, and then promptly went into labor, giving birth on her own bathroom floor while instructing her daughter to call 911! The pizza got there before the ambulance did, but both came after the baby. My co-worker e-mailed her a response to her proposal and she said, “I can’t get back to you right now, I just had my baby.” We were like WHAT!? You just sent this an hour and a half ago!
In related news:
A woman recently gave birth as a museum exhibit in Brooklyn:http://blog.timesunion.com/localarts/woman-gives-birth-in-art-gallery-but-is-it-art/18921/ Video of the birth will be added to the exhibit now. I can’t find it at the moment but I read a quote earlier in which she said that she hoped to convey the message that this life is a work of art.
A couple years ago, this ad for a mattress company in Spain, which features a home birth, made me cry:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp8z29mddU4
I have many friends who have done home births. I don’t want to do it because I don’t want to have to clean up a mess afterwards… ha! But I think they are safe as long as you have a certified nurse/midwife to help you. I think unassisted births are foolish. Just my opinion.
I think birth is beautiful. They put a mirror in front of my bed when my son was being born and it was the most amazing sight I have ever seen. I will never forget it.
But I wouldn’t want to broadcast my births just because I was naked. I had my mom and my husband with me and those were the only people allowed to see me like that. I wouldn’t want the world seeing my nudity even if it was during something wonderful like childbirth. Its still very private.
How can you watch that and not cry? I am crying. Especially that little newborn pops out and the sibling exclaims “Baby! Baby!” BEAUTIFUL. And she did it very tastefully I must say. I’ve seen videos of birth where the mom put the camera on the floor and backed up to it. You get a full view which as a pregnant woman, i find very interesting, BUT I wouldn’t want my nether regions on the world wide web. ;-)
I have many friends that have had homebirths and they speak highly of it. I would love to do one but my husband isn’t comfortable with it and I don’t think I’d be able to relax enough knowing he’s freaking out. Homebirthers don’t go without plans (at least the ones I know). There is always a back up plan in case something does go wrong. But for the most part, alot of the “medical emergencies” that some anti-homebirthing people mention are actually hospital induced emergencies, like too much medication or pushing the woman into a C-section or just making her feel like a lab rat instead of a woman doing something her body was naturally built to do. I am pretty neutral on the entire topic but I can see that it’ll be completely up to the woman as to where she feels most comfortable giving birth. It’s her birthing experience, she should be empowered to do what she feels best.
I have had 5 home births, and while I wouldn’t want to be videotaped, I am very happy that this woman chose to show others that birth does not have to be a highly medicalized terrifying experience.
Part of being pro-life is embracing women’s fertility as something good, natural, and beneficial. The way much of society portrays it is as something dangerous which needs to be controlled or there will be a body count. When pro-aborts say women shouldn’t be “forced” to give birth because its such a terrible, dangerous, scary thing, some young women believe them. Especially if all they have ever seen/heard about is hospital birth.
This is birth as nature intends it – no hysterical screaming, no cutting, peace and joy.
And if you have a water birth, the cleanup is easy – just siphon off the water into whatever plants you want to grow really well and you are done!
It never ceases to amaze the lengths people will go to desacralize the human body. It began with Gnostics and spread to Protestants. The human body is no longer sacred, and private/miraculous moments for a husband and wife can be streamed live to everyone in the world, including strangers and perverts. Sad.
How are protestants desecrating the human body Bruce? When did this turn into a “lets bash protestants” thread?
Bruce, I am a Catholic and I have no idea what you are talking about. Puritans are Protestants, Catholics have images of the Blessed Mother nursing baby Jesus in their churches. Strange comment. Birth is sacred. Our society is so out of touch with natural birth that drastic measure are necessary to reeducate our society. If men had stayed out of birth and it had stayed at home with trusted older women then none of this would be necessary.
The Protestant love for contraception, for one.
There is no reason, other than pride and some sort of twisted exhibitionism, for this woman to want the world to watch her give birth.
Very sad.
As an educational video, I can see this being very useful. Along with helping to normalize pregnancy and birth (and it is so astonishingly screwed up the way those two things have been othered by our society; look up “tokophobia” for an extreme form of internalized misogyny, just as one example).
However, the fact that something is interesting/educational/full of positive emotions for the participants/normal doesn’t necessarily make it not-gross. She wants to do this, so she has every right to. She’s opened it up for others to watch, so they have every right to if they wish. I don’t see this as wrong or bad or whatever. But, yeah. A little gross for me. Certainly more personal than I want to be with a stranger, but that’s something I have a right to not watch if I wish. And not everyone’s going to see this that way, and that’s okay.
So…yeah, I’m pretty neutral on this. Whichever.
Caral–it was called “A Baby Story.” I loved it too!
Okay Bruce. Funny how I know A LOT of Catholics using contraception. Hypocrites much? A lot of people at my “protestant” church do not use any birth control and are allowing God to give them as many children as He wants. So no, not all protestants “love” contraception. You want me to point out the pedophilia scandals your church covered up? Want to go there? Cause the priest who married my husband and I WAS a pedophile picking up teenaged boys in a park for sex. Talk about desecration of the human body and nothing being sacred.
Maybe you should shut up and get your own house in order first.
I do appreciate what she’s trying to do here; I just think some things 9like your own baby’s birth) are private moments.
yes carla “a baby story” is still on every day. one midwife remarked.” a.man has no business being in a delivery room while a woman gives birth.” “not even a male doctor.” her opinion. my husband was there. 2 of my girlfriends and bro in law until pushing came. it depends on the family and the woman.
I am…. Not watching that. :) Not something I would like to see. I watched my wife give birth at home and that was enough for me.
Meaning?
Homebirth can be very dangerous-If not then no one would have started going into hospitals to have their babies to begin with. Our female ancestors-while many of them and their babies survived childbirth unharmed-enough of them and epecially their babies didn’t! many lives are saved by modern medical intervention. There is a small number of babies and mothers whowill die from not being in the hospital at the time of labor/birth. I don’t mean to say people shouldn’t make educated choices but homebirth stillbirth/injury risk is real!
Has she live-streamed herself taking a dump? That’s a natural function of the human body too. How about the conception of their child? Why only the birth? She’s awfully choosy about what parts and functions of her body that she uses to get her cheap exhibitionist thrills.
Wow, joan. Do you also think YOUR birth was as beautiful and on-par with your mother “taking a dump”?
It’s sad how people view creating and giving new life these days. I remember anxiously seeing my mother in the hospital when I was 13 when she had my youngest brother. It was amazing. I can’t think of one dump my mother took that I was eagerly standing outside the door waiting to be able to see her and the result of her “bodily function”. You must be a sad little person, joan. Do you have any siblings?
Also, Bruce is a real, live, honest-to-goodness troll. Please ignore him. :)
Good grief, Joan. I have never encountered someone more sour and crass than you. I feel very sorry for you. You need help.
Childbirth is beautiful and miraculous. I’m glad for the demonstration that it can be a calm, natural, and amazingly normal. I wish I could have delivered my three children the way this woman did. It is certainly a more efficient way to labor, and much more comfortable than lying on your back in a cold sterile hospital bed with needles and wires everywhere. The human body is a remarkable creation, and when treated with respect and dignity, as I believe this video birth was, it is incredible to witness. God bless this wonderful family.
“Childbirth is beautiful and miraculous. I’m glad for the demonstration that it can be a calm, natural, and amazingly normal.”
So is sex. Why not cut a video demonstrating that sex can be all of those things too? I’m just wondering why this particular beautiful, natural, and miraculous act is somehow appropriate for live-streaming over the Internet, but certain others we would be calling “pornography” (or worse).
Lol, joan. if a woman wishes to show everyone her natural childbirth and her nice family welcoming her newborn, then more power to her. I don’t want to see it, so I don’t watch it. She isn’t hurting anyone.
Carla, if you were asking me, my wife’s home birth was “enough for me” because I really don’t want to watch a woman besides my wife having a kid. Makes me uncomfortable. I think home birth is great, if you have a good plan. I just didn’t like my wife’s because I was twenty and very uneducated about the whole process. I would probably be a lot better today, now that we have had two kids and it’s not this terrifying thing that neither of us knew much about. I would encourage any couple who wants a home birth to get a midwife they feel comfortable with and who is experienced, I didn’t like my wife’s all that much.
Because Joan, sex is the ultimate act of intimacy between man and wife. It is something only the two of them can share because it makes them one flesh. It’s not an exhibitionist act meant for an audience. It is something sacred and holy; at least it is meant to be.
This childbirth video was not exhibitionist, or sexual in any way; it was not meant for cheap voyeuristic thrills. It has no titillating qualities. It’s just showing how people are brought into this world.
I’m not suggesting that birth should always be a public spectacle (of course not); but what this family did was document the births of their children and then show a society that’s increasingly hostile toward pregnancy and childbirth that there’s nothing more natural, nothing more womanly, nothing more amazing than giving birth.
Protestanism is dying off faster than you can say “contraception.”
Actually, Sydney, protestant churches have more problems with sex scandals and abuse than the One, True Church. They are also famous for contraception and “ordaining” homosexuals. Get out while you still can.
Mary – modern medical intervention is good when you need it. The vast majority of childbirths need no intervention and if we continue to perpetuate the myth that childbirth is a dangerous, harmful event which requires a surgeon present to be safe, we are doing women and their unborn babies a disservice.
Whatever Bruce. Haven’t heard of any Protestant hierarchy moving pastors around to cover up kiddie diddling. Why don’t you shut up now and stick to the topic?
Bruce says:
October 29, 2011 at 10:20 am
There is no reason, other than pride and some sort of twisted exhibitionism, for this woman to want the world to watch her give birth.
Very sad.
You’re wrong here. She did it for educational purposes and there are A LOT of women, who are grateful to see videos like that. I was absolutely terrified about giving birth in the past, until I had a chance to see videos of women giving birth naturally and normally (not spread out on the table on their backs in what looks like an oprating theatre, with their legs in the air and screaming from pain). Being just 2 months from my due date, these videos were invaluable to help me make choices about what kind of birth I want (natural, unmedicalised, etc) and how I’m going to manage it. And even though I would never film my own birth (too embarassing), I am very grateful to all the brave women out there who let it be filmed and used as an educational tool.
Mary says:
October 29, 2011 at 11:48 am
Homebirth can be very dangerous… homebirth stillbirth/injury risk is real!
I dare to disagree. In the past a lot of injuries/stillbirths/deaths happened not because women gave birth at home, but because there wasn’t any antenatal care, there wasn’t diagnostics, women would have no clue if they were diabetic, suffered from pre-eclampsia, had placenta-previa or other problems, and they also gave birth with just a family member to help them, not a professional who is fully trained to deal with any problem or at least to get you to hospital if emergency happens. I’ve done a lot of research on this topic, and I mean A LOT, and surprisingly I found that for normal/healthy/uncomplicated pregnancies home births are actually safer than hospital births – especially in therms of infections after the birth and the need of medical interventions (and yes, the research included the women who ended up in hospital after planning and starting a homebirth). There aren’t really many cases where a woman wouldn’t have enough time to get to the hospital if something went wrong. Good book to read on the topic “Birth Reborn” by Michel Odent, who himself being a doctor reduced the need of interventions and C-sections in his hospital to almost zero just by creating environment for women to give birth naturally (and that’s including women with complications).
Wow. Amazing. She made look easier than all six I went through and no epidural. All I can say is WOW!
Bruce. Get a life.
If men had stayed out of birth and it had stayed at home with trusted older women then none of this would be necessary.
Interesting comment by a Catholic, Susan. Are you disagreeing with a husband being in the room but supporting this woman putting this video out for all to see?
I agree that giving birth is a miracle and I watched the video. I definitely wish I would have had a home births in water. Afterwards, I felt that I was intruding in a moment that should have been shared only by husband and wife (with a few medicals nearby). I feel giving birth is a sacred moment to be shared with those closest to the mother.
I personally wouldn’t want my daughter all over the internet with just a bikini top on (does anyone know the story behind the bikini btw?) I wonder if the baby and her other children will be okay with their friends seeing their mom give birth when this video surfaces years later.
Had first three children in hospital and every one since at home. Those opposed to home birth should simply research when hospital births began. This is a new and dangerous phenomenon. I can attest to the draconian measures used against women during this natural process. These events led me to never have another baby in a medical facility. Since then, I have experienced the joys of labor and childbirth as God intended- in the privacy of my own home (not meant for youtube, etc,), with only those whom I choose to participate.
As for the male’s role-husbands participated in conception and should participate in childbirth. They should not “wimp out” when their child arrives- leaving his/her first moments and his wife’s care to strangers. The medicalization of childbirth has led to men being pushed aside during this glorious event.
Remember: the hospital is a place for sick people- not healthy newborns and their families.
Bruce, I’m weighing in as one of the Catholic moderators here. Cease and desist on the Protestant bashing please, or your comments will be deleted. There are other places on the web and elsewhere for fighting the Reformation. This isn’t one of them.
I’ll go even further. Jill is a non-Catholic Christian. I won’t call her a Protestant, because I’ve never heard her protest anything. Jill is completely on board with Pope John Paul II’s Theology of the Body, so far as I can tell.
That said, I’m a bit more reserved in matters such as childbirth, and believe that its beauty is as sacred as the intimacy that started it all. Of love and necessity, I had a medical staff present. That has nothing to do with the difference in Theology between Catholic and non-Catholic Christians.
Please keep your bigotry to yourself.
Chris: if they should be kept private? well…that’s up to the viewer really. if they want to broadcast their birth, that’s one thing – but we as viewers don’t have to watch it….
Exactly… And quite a few people have already watched what starts pregnancies… ;)
“Should births be private or public?”
I think these should be private. I won’t watch this one. Also, I don’t want a bunch people seeing my wifey naked.
Praxedes, if a woman wants her husband at the birth, that is fine. The data show that the main factor in creating a calm birthing environment is the presence of an older, experienced woman. This was the tradition in every culture until post industrial revolution. When men figured out how to make a profit off of birth, midwives were demonized and women were brought into the hospital.
Husband attended births are a relatively new fad. There is nothing wrong with them being there, but they were traditionally not present. My husband was present at all but one of my births and there were pros and cons to his presence. It’s not like men can do very much anyway – its the woman who is doing the heavy lifting when it comes to birth. And I’m totally fine with that.
Giving birth is the most amazing thing I have ever done – it was an awesome, spiritual, empowering, inspirational experience. Right after I gave birth to my last 5 children, I felt like I wanted to do it all over again. And until someone experiences that, its really hard to explain. It’s a shame that such drastic measures as this YouTube video have to be used to counter the anti-woman bias in our culture with regard to birth, but it seems necessary to counter the hideous hospital births portrayed by Hollywood and the main stream culture. (screaming, loss of control, drugs, helplessness.) Most people think a calm, peaceful, intervention-free birth isn’t possible – this video proves them wrong.
Susan: Right after I gave birth to my last 5 children, I felt like I wanted to do it all over again. And until someone experiences that, its really hard to explain.
Wow – more power to you, Susan, but yeah – that’s pretty far out there.
Gads I can’t imagine what I would have done without my husband by my side. He was an amazing coach and a wonderful support for me. Along with my doula and midwife. :)
I would totally agree with you Susan on this. Giving birth(four times)was the most amazing thing I have ever done in my life.
And I always wanted to do it all over again too. :)I so get that.
When men figured out how to make a profit off of birth, midwives were demonized and women were brought into the hospital.
Thanks for clarifying your statement, Susan. I agree with your statement above.
Thanks, Jack. :)
I’m not sure why but I always assumed with water births there was more water. I think someone could invent something a lot more comfortable than what looks like a big galvanized tub. She is a chiropractor so her being comfortable with the entire birthing process doesn’t surprise me. My two favorite parts was when she scooped the baby out of the water into the safety of her arms and when she shared her two year olds sense of wonder when he seen his baby brother.
She looks exactly like the Octomom.
Bruce,
So, I’m a homosexual activist?? Really???? Who knew…
As promised, your bigoted remarks were taken down. If you were half the Catholic you pride yourself on being, you would follow the example of humility so abundant in the life of Pope John Paul II, who managed to advance Catholicism without looking at all like the strident, and foul creature that you portray yourself as.
You are perhaps the worst ambassador of our faith, and I apologize to any who may have taken your misguided words as resembling something of our posture regarding the other members of the Body of Christ.
Future bigoted comments will meet the same fate.
wow joan. went right for it on that one huh?. youre a real class act. urinating menstruating and burping are also bodily functions. who would want to see any of that? and it seems that you liked the birth of a child to defecation. birth is a cool thing to watch. many women do defecate upon delivery. it cant be helped. so since you are pro abortion then is removal of an unwanted baby surgical removal of defecation? joan you need help.
oops above post should read likened to. and pretty much conception is a no brainer. its how babies are made. im quite sure youve been sexually active a time or 2
For the record, the Catholic Church has had a very long history of moving priests around and it was not BECAUSE of scandal. However, it EXACERBATED scandal. Please get your own facts straight. Back before the 80’s most of us knew very little about abuse and the nature of the abusers. The Church was a stupid as everyone else on the matter. Now, all human institutions have scandal and corruption. My clergy aren’t all a bunch of pervs, though some of the members have acted in a criminal manner. Stop making the devil laugh at all of us Christians: he loves watching us fight.
Just because Bruce made comments that made some of you angry is no reason to start on the rest of us. If I want to hear people bash on my church, I’ll watch Bill Maher, thank you very much.
@ ninek. that is so true. it really shouldnt matter what faith we are as long as we are pro life. this happened often on the sidewalk. bantering about which faith is right which is wrong. who did this who did that. i was raised with a catholic father and protestant mother. my brother and i went to both churches and we eventually leaned to catholic. now i prefer my baptist pastor. my husband is jewish. my girlfriend from silent no more and i stopped going out to the clinics for a while because of the fighting. i even told her “the devil just loves the divide.”
and i shall state it for the record once more….and priest who molests a child must be locked up for his crime!!!!!! nobody here condones priests molesting children. they are human beings and they sin just as the rest of us do. would anyone like my laundry list of sins? ~got a few hours?
i should say any person in the pulpit…..misconduct of a sexual nature on a child~ throw them out!! we had a big case here where the pastor of a church was looking at kiddie porn! lock him up!
Well ninek, thats exactly how I feel too. I dont need others bashing my faith. Bill Maher seems to have it in for all Christians regardless of denomination.
Back to topic on hand, I agree with Susan. I found my husband to be very irritating while I was in labor, poor guy. I just wanted my mom. I remember thinking “why on earth did I ever get married? I am going to be celibate for the rest of my life.” And then my baby boy was born and I looked at my husband and said “Lets have another!” My husband laughs when he tells the story
yeah bill maher needs a good shrink. why are we christians such a target? i read that maher had a catholic mom and a jewish dad. where did he go so wrong? i dont ever hear him harping on scientologists. anyway he and anne coulter are friends. maybe she can straighten him out. someone needs to. okay just had to say it.
Have you seen Religulous, Heather? He goes after Islam and Scientology a lot in that one. Bill Maher is weird, he doesn’t believe in the germ theory of disease.
I am very pro life so the higher risk of infant death at homebirth isa concern for me
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21380991
http://journals.lww.com/greenjournal/Abstract/2011/11000/Planned_Home_Compared_With_Planned_Hospital_Births.11.aspx
http://hurtbyhomebirth.blogspot.com/
Well, I know a couple who delivered their third child, a son in a hospital and he died because the doctor wanted to finish his golf game first. He didn’t bother to show up to the hospital till much later and by then the cord had wrapped around the baby’s neck and strangled him.
So deaths happen in hospitals too. Tearing is common during labor. I tore with my son.
I wouldn’t want to do a home birth myself but I don’t think they’re any more dangerous if you have good midwives with you. There are quack midwives and quack doctors, unfortunately.
no jack i didnt see it but i saw a preview of it. i dont even think maher even knows what hes talking about half the time. he always seems like hes in a total state of confusion to me. then when he tries to be funny he fails. anyway i think scientology is a cult. however when maher talks about “retards” and stuff like that hes like in a strange zone of his own. i think hes on drugs but if he isnt hes still a strange cup of coffee:/
@ jack heres another example. when mel gibson made rude comments about the jews. it was like “see see see we told you they were all nuts. gibson was wrong but even my own husband said “oh i like gibson.”
eh i should have specified the liberals (in my above post) one big red headed woman with a mouth to match in particular. in fact a few liberals in hollywood came to gibsons defense. liberal jody foster said “mel is my friend. no comment” the red head? joy behar. she was on and on about “oh his career should be over and i cant believe foster had no comment.” but when charlie sheen did the same thing they made more of a joke of it. christian=no mistakes allowed. libs=free pass.
I think childbirth is a beautiful and miraculous event. And I understand the reasons why this woman posted it. That being said, I really can’t bring myself to watch this–it just feels a bit like voyeurism–looking at a moment that’s so private and personal. Even being invited to watch it just feels weird.
“Well, I know a couple who delivered their third child, a son in a hospital and he died because the doctor wanted to finish his golf game first.”
Please tell me this man is no longer practicing medicine.
Regarding the commentary decrying men moving childbirth into hospitals, the graphic in the link shows the decrease in perinatal and maternal mortality declining during the time that childbirth moved to hospitals.
http://www.utilis.net/history/rates.001.jpg
Gerard,
Can you think of something else that happened around the same time? Like antibiotics, maybe? :)
Good try though ;)
i prefer a hospital setting myself. i also prefer a male obgyn. ive just had much better experiences with them. there was a child who suffered a birth injury (life long) when she became stuck in the birth canal. the midwife couldnt get her shoulders out. im sure there are horror stories on both sides. and that doc and the golf game??? wow! the hospital i go to provide many back up docs. how awful!
oops above post should say home delivery
Hey Bruce. My body is a temple, it’s just a pity I’m atheist!
It’s Nancy’s choice as to whether she ‘televises’ it, it’s our choice as to whether we actually watch. I wouldn’t.
My mom always told me that putting women flat on their backs to give birth was because it was easier for the male doctors, not for mother and baby. It just doesn’t make sense. Gravity helps during childbirth. Some hospitals expected the mom to stay in bed during the whole labor even though walking around sometimes helps. Mom also believed that everyone being shaved was unnecessary and probably started by a perverted male doctor.
My first child was left with terrible bruises on his head from forceps. After the birth, the male doctor said, “you didn’t need forceps but I wanted to show my intern how to use them.” I wasn’t even asked if it was okay for an intern to be in the room. While putting in stitches, this doctor, his intern and my ex were making jokes about putting in a few extra stitches. Funny. When I asked how many stitches I needed the doctor said, “you don’t want to know.”
Had I been older, wiser and more assertive, I would have tried everything to sue this doctor’s @ss.
Ironically, the doctor who I saw throughout my pregnancy was out golfing when I went into labor and I was left with this arrogant alpha male.
Hey Reality! Nice to see you made it safely back from underneath the bridge! (:
Praxedes, so sorry that you had that experience. I was assaulted by a doctor during a birth, and didn’t say anything. Back then I thought doctors “delivered” babies. Now I know that God created my body wonderfully well, and I don’t need any man to “deliver” me of my children.
There are good male doctors, but they seem to be the exception. You are right that many of the rules in many hospitals are designed for the convenience of the nursing staff and the doctors and have little to do with good outcomes for babies and mothers.
Susan,
A bit premature on the ‘nice try’. You should know me by now. I never pipe up unless I know what I’m talking about. :-)
Antibiotics didn’t hit the market until 1946. Discovered in the late 1920’s, penicillin didn’t begin to be manufactured for consumption until WW II, where it was reserved only for military personnel. So rare was it, that it was purified out of the urine of soldiers receiving it, so that it could be reused in the next soldier. The public began to get it after the War’s end.
Now, if you look at the graph you’ll see that the most dramatic decline in mortality was in the first half of the 20th Century, during the pre-penicillin years.
Gerard,
Antibiotics and a better understanding of germ theory did make a difference in maternal mortality rates. Before antibiotics, women who birthed in hospitals had a much larger chance of getting an infection from doctors who did not wash their hands than women who birthed at home surrounded by their own germs. In the 19th century, up to 25% of European and American women who delivered in hospitals died of childbed fever.
The decline in infant mortality was likely caused by better nutrition, not by entering the hospital – that didn’t start becoming the norm until after WWII.
One thing you cannot see in your statistics is the morbidity and the effect of the dehumanizing things which were done to women once births moved to hospitals – enemas, shaving, episiotomy, the lithotomy postition – all invented by men and all degrading. When women were first brought into the hospital, they were separated from their husbands, drugged up, and their babies were dragged out by instruments. This is not good medicine, and not good for women.
From the following link : http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/historyonline/childbirth.cfm
“The substitution of doctors for midwives and of hospital delivery for home delivery did little in themselves to reduce mortality rates for mothers. It was not until around 1935, when antibiotics and transfusions were introduced, that a sharp reduction in the maternal mortality rate occurred. In 1900, maternal mortality was about 65 times higher than it is today, and not much lower than it had been in the mid-nineteenth century. By World War II, however, death in childbirth had been cut to its present low level.”
Love your work!
Susan
Kate, he was still practicing. He just retired but somehow paid a malpractice suit but kept his license. The mother also had to have an emergency hysterectomy thus ending her dreams of more children. I don’t believe she was even 30 yet. I know birth complications are rare in hospitals, but its scary there are doctors out there who just don’t care about human life and are very nonchalant about it.
Praxades, YES! I had a natural birth in the hospital with my son and being hooked up to monitors flat on my back was awful. AWFUL. Probably why it was so painful for me. My body was telling me to get on all fours (like the woman in the video) but I couldn’t.
I was going to do a birth center this time but its so far from our house it made my husband very nervous. So I told my ob/gyn and the hospital maternal coordinator (or whatever her title is) what kind of birth I want and they are cool with me not being hooked to monitors and moving around and birth in a squatting position etc… The first time I had no clue what birth was like or what I wanted. Now I know and I am using my voice to birth the way I want.
Susan,
I’m not following your logic. You claim that the doctors had nothing to do with the reduction of morbidity and mortality, then point to antibiotics and transfusions provided by physicians, as the real catalyst (both of which midwives could not provide during most of the 20th century).
Gerard, the reduction in maternal mortality correlates with the introduction of sufanomides, which could be administered to a woman regardless of where she delivered. I am not claiming that doctors had nothing to do with the reduction, but that the move to the hospital did not cause the reduction.
My first two homebirths and my last homebirth were attended by a doctor. I prefer midwives, but doctors can also be good providers, as long as they respect the woman and the natural process. There are plenty of female doctors who do neither. There are also midwives who might as well be doctors. Its more about the attitude and beliefs of the provider than the sex or education of the provider.
I’m on your side, but I really think that leaders in the pro-life movement need to step back and look at how our society is failing them in healthcare related to childbirth. This is part of a larger problem. The longer that women are treated poorly in childbirth – sliced open to save malpractice costs, episiotomies done and sewn up tight for the hubby, restricted during childbirth, not “allowed” to eat or drink, treated like a child and not an autonomous adult during delivery – I could go on – the longer our culture will cling to the myth that childbirth has to be dangerous and damaging to women. I have found a new way, and I hope that others find it too.
ps – I claimed earlier that morbidity was increased, not decreased, in the hospital setting
wow. these stories are indeed eye opening to me. when i was about 28 i was having some right sided abdominal pain. every time i stepped down on my right foot it brought me discomfort. i was an er patient so the doctor ordered a pelvic exam. i dont know how other states operate but in ohio a female nurse must be present when an internal exam is ordered. im not sure if its law. maybe just a cya move. anyway the guy kept his fingers in there and began to very quickly move them back and forth. he kept asking “how does that feel” faster “how about now”? a woman knows when shes being molested. well at least i can say i felt violated. i kept looking at the nurse as if to say “gosh is he ever going to finish”? even she looked a little weirded out at him as he was grinning. he did some blood tests too but trust me a woman knows! i was okay and sent home with pain meds but its never happened with an obgyn. if a doctor ever molested me today his arse would be grass.
but my gosh the one about the extra stitches!!!!!! how inappropriate. now i know a bit more. that hospital is now closed. it was called st. alexis. a very rude dentist took care of my husband. a friend of mine pulled up his public record. turns out he had indeed been in trouble before with a pending lawsuit! we were so glad to get this info. and my husband picked another dentist. we called the lawyer involved in the suit and although he could not discuss the case he did remark “i will just tell you that my client was mutilated but i cannot go into detail.”~…..if you smell a rat just investigate. a local girl (teen) just died last week as she went to a dentist who botched an older womans procedure years ago. that woman died as well. i really dont know how they remain in practice.
but the obgyn who cared for me in my second to last pregnancy was beyond wonderful. his wife was also a doctor and she was pregnant too. i couldnt have asked for better care and the receptionist told me “oh all the patients just love him”! when i was preggo with my son i requested him and i was informed that he had relocated to washington:(
@ praxedes im sorry that happened to you…100% horrible! made my toes curl ! now about female obgyns…..some are wonderful but some are a tad snippy.
I am generally OK with male OB’s. All of my birth attendants have been female and I can tell you that two of them were the WORST EVER. One was an OB and the other was a MIDWIFE. My mother once told me that she preferred male OBs because they were more gentle. The female ones had zero sympathy for discomfort/pain, in her opinion.
I prefer hospital births for safety reasons, myself. Home birth is OK… if that’s what you want. I did lose a great-uncle due to homebirth though. My great-grandparents were poor farmers and they could not afford a hospital birth. The baby was too big to pass, and they ended up having to basically D&X to save my great-grandmother. It took her a very long time to recover physically and emotionally from this horrible experience. That makes me angry because even at that time she probably could have had a c-section in a hospital and both she and the baby would have been fine.
I’ve had a couple bad experiences with hospital birth but I did have one experience that was beyond awesome even though the midwife was a jerk. I’m getting ready for my fourth delivery but this time I’m not taking any crap off the L&D staff. I’m just plain not going to take it this time. I’m going in with a birth plan and if I have to I will pull out a little attitude to make sure they comply with my wishes in a reasonable way.
@ army wife. i agree with your mom. its odd because you would think that a woman would understand a woman better but the opposite seems to happen (well in my case anyway) i have a friend in her 70s who feels as i do. she does not want a woman. they seem to lack compassion and many can get very snippy. i flat out just dont like the way some of them have made me feel. they also seemed to brush of concerns or make light of them. the male obgyns would take the time to explain or run a test to put my mind at ease.
I have no problem with men, male ob/gyn’s (my favorite gyn ever is a man!), etc; and I don’t think that anyone is arguing that medical ADVANCEMENTS have benefited all of society, pregnant women included. But I don’t think that the “medicalization” of childbirth has been a good thing for women, overall. And by this I do not mean that any hospital birth is by definition a “medicalized” birth, because I think we’re seeing a pushback reaction – but for the past near-century that has been the case. It is possible to use medicine to improve an experience without medicalizing that experience, and I think that our society overly medicalizes the experience of giving birth. Scheduled inductions, general insistence on dorsal lithotomy position (which makes obstetric intervention easiest but which basically requires the baby to be born almost upwards, often resulting in greater pain and difficulty for the mother), a 31-percent c-section rate (often for the convenience and insurance CYA of the doctor), etc. Medicine is good but the medicalization of natural conditions and processes is not, and in my opinion we have conflated the two.
I think childbirth is a beautiful and miraculous event. And I understand the reasons why this woman posted it. That being said, I really can’t bring myself to watch this–it just feels a bit like voyeurism–looking at a moment that’s so private and personal. Even being invited to watch it just feels weird.
I agree. I would not want to share something that personal. And how would that child feel watching that video ten years or so down the line, something that perhaps millions of people saw? I would feel uncomfortable, to say the least.
Really? An episiotomy is “demeaning”? My son was freaking 9lbs+. I HAD to have one, or else something bad was going to happen. I’m glad I was in a hospital, and if they have to do something like that to save my child, they can “demean” me all freaking day.
Finally watched the video. Amazing. Absolutely amazing.
myrtle miller,
I am pretty sure there are all sorts of different tubs for home births. Whatever she is comfortable in I guess. :)
The tub I was in at the hospital was huge and took 30 minutes to fill. A little piece of heaven to have my last baby in. Wish I had known for the other three!!!
Were you on your back, xalisae? Because being on hands and knees or squatting increases the pelvic outlet 30% and greatly reduces the risk of tearing. All episiotomy does is speed up delivery by a few minutes. Episiotomies are caused by the lithotomy position, not because there is an epidemic of inadequate birth canals. Your body is more than adequate to deliver your babies.
And yes, cutting genitals without necessity or often times permission is demeaning.
Hey Phillymiss!!
How is school??? Been thinking about you.
Source for that information, please?
All I know is, when I was having my daughter, I pushed, and she came out. Same position, having my son, I pushed my brains out, and it was like a freaking brick wall. Did you read the link about homebirths up the thread? The attitude you seem to be exhibiting has cost children their lives. I’m glad I had a hospital to help my son instead of staying 3cm dialated for ANOTHER 2 weeks and just told to deal with it, then being frantic when it was pushing time and nothing happened.
I have 2 kids, I’ve had to have my water broken both times, and I looooooove Picotin, because I was literally 3cm dialated in labor starting every night around 6pm with my son for literally weeks. SCREW. THAT. NOISE. I love medical intervention. If they can help make things easier, better, safer, and faster, more freaking power to them. This is not a suffering contest. You can go ahead and play Ironwoman-triathalon-birthing all you like, but that’s not me.
If you like episiotomies, I am glad that they are available and I think you should have as many as you want. Those of us who choose not to have them should not be forced to. Having a natural childbirth is much less suffering than having my genitals cut. Although I have experienced pain during natural childbirth, I have never suffered. I’d rather spend my post-partum period bonding with my baby than dealing with stitches.
Mothers and children die from hospital-related infections. I’m not blaming those deaths on you. God is the author of life, not doctors.
Sources for the 30% info:
http://www.cpmc.org/services/pregnancy/information/labor_secondstage.html
http://www.givingbirthnaturally.com/birth-positions.html
http://www.mymidwife.org/Don-t-Just-Lay-There-Move
Again, until our society, especially the pro-life movement, embraces the beautiful, life-giving power of a woman’s body, and supports her right to give birth without abuse or mutilation, birth will continue to be for many women a medical event so horrible that they must be numb to endure it.
Xalisae
Although I completely understand what Susans saying I understand what your saying too because I was in labor 16 hours with my oldest and she was breeched had I not had a C-section she could have died. What I think is that those who chose to deliver naturally should be able to and those who need pain management and/or surgical intervention should receive it.
There is a very interesting article here http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2011/10/28/the-section-boom/Uq6YiseGIEziBXGuq19lFN/story.html?s_campaign=sm_fb about the C=Section Boom. One particularly relevant comment is this:
“The truth is, an obstetrician can persuade almost any patient at any time that a caesarean is the best choice. I could have told this woman that the transient dips in the heart rate concerned me and that I recommended surgery to prevent her baby from being harmed. Few patients, hearing those words, would refuse.” -Dr Adam Wolfberg
That’s a lot of power and a lot of discretion – with the malpractice environment in the US, these words are spoken even when the risk of actual harm is greater from the Caesarean than the continued labor.
im with you x….give me meds! when i was in horrible pain while in labor with my daughter ( i needed them to break my water all 4 times too) the female doctor told me shed order my epidural if i wanted. as she put it “this is not a contest as to who can endure the most pain.” i told her “oh yes please.”!!!!!!!!!!
h – Did you know that it is normal for the water to remain intact until the delivery? – it makes for less stress on the baby and less risk of cord compression. It’s almost as if it were designed that way…
@ susan. no i did not.
Leaving the water intact also makes infection less likely and helps mitigate the pain. Contractions definitely feel more intense once the water breaks.
I think a woman should be able to decide her own birth plan.
On the subject of episiotomies, my second delivery was of a 9 lb. 12 oz. child and I did not have an episiotomy. I tore slightly, the size and scope of which was less than a typical episiotomy. There are things women can do before birth to increase the elasticity of the perineum. Also, adding in pitocin and epidurals to the mix can make for more difficulty. I have had pitocin without an epidural – which is a special kind of hell – but I never pushed for longer than 10-15 minutes for any of the 3 deliveries. With a birth plan and a good doctor who really tries to stick with your wishes as much as possible, hopefully the likelihood of an episiotomy would be less.
I never understood episiotomies? If you need to tear, you’ll probably tear. I once read that episiotomies make you likely to tear more than you need to – the image used was fabric. Anyone who’s ever sewn anything knows that fabric is pretty hard to tear – but very easy to tear once you make a small incision in it.
I think everyone should do what is best for her situation. I do think that so much of what we accept as “common knowledge” about childbirth – position, episiotomy, the water-breaking thing, etc – is just a medicalization of the process that does not benefit women as a whole in any clear way. If any individual woman prefers those methods that’s fine and she should absolutely have the option to make that her birth plan, but I think every woman should be educated about what the options actually are, and not just led to believe that this is “the way things go.”
I keep meaning to watch The Business of Being Born. It’s on Netflix streaming, for anyone who is interested – it’s supposed to be very good.
Alexandra,
It wasn’t until my fourth that my midwife during my waterbirth said to me, “Do whatever your body tells you to do.” Wow!!! Really?? Up until then I was made to pant like a dog for an hour(while the dr. drove to me)and NOT PUSH. When every cell(I am a bunch of cells)and fiber of my being was screaming PUSH NOW!!! I was made to wait and lie down and not move for three births.
With your first it is hard because you don’t really know what to expect but having a doula is amazing as she keeps you going and tells you what is happening.
So I am telling you right now, sweet girl. As much as you are able please have a birth plan and listen to what your body tells you to do. Try a midwife and a doula. Have an advocate with you to give voice to your wishes when contractions hit and you are focused on breathing. Water births are awesome. But I pray that Alexandra gets to have the kind of birth she wants to have when that time comes.
The goal is to get that baby out healthy and whole.
:)
The goal is to get that baby out healthy and whole.
Exactly. Which is why I’d take an episiotomy, epidural, and picotin over any of the dead baby stories further up-thread.
I’ll admit it…I was thinking about homebirth for my next one, maybe, but I read that blog, and 3 outta 4 of the women with dead babies had labor stories that started just like the labor with my son, so no thank you. I <3 doctors. They have their diplomas for a reason.
Carla, I am very hopeful that when the time comes I will be able to have a midwife and doula. I believe in listening to my body above all else – in everything, not just labor! – and that means I am somewhat skeptical of a medical establishment that doesn’t have a good track record on doing that. :)
My neighbor had a birth plan with contingencies, to let her comfortably adapt to circumstances as they arose. But she went into labor early and had to go to Plan C, the local hospital, because her midwife was unavailable. She felt very confident in her choices but when push came to shove (ha) she had a VERY hard time sticking up for herself against the medical personnel in the room. She was very glad her husband was there to be her advocate and run interference when it came to the doctor pushing pitocin, epidural, etc, because she really did not feel “in fighting form” at that point. So I think that regardless of what my childbirth experience is actually like, it’s important to have people on my side in that room – whether it’s a midwife and doula or whether it’s just my partner telling the nurse that I mean what I say and know what I want. :)
They have their diplomas for a reason.
They sure do. Caring about you and your family just isn’t always the reason.
How many babies die each year from hospital acquired infections? How many mothers die from hospital acquired infections? Why is the US 41st in the world for maternal mortality when 99% of our mothers give birth in a hospital?
Midwives who focus on disease prevention (diet, exercise, etc.) have healthier clients. When I delivered with an OB the only thing that was ever mentioned was weight- we never talked about food choices. Most pre-eclampsia (which causes 18% of deaths in the US) can be avoided by good diet. These surgeons only suggest delivering babies prematurely, not fixing the root of the problem.
Giving birth in a hospital is no guarantee of a good outcome. Look at the risks of a c-section, epidural, prematurely breaking the water, IV induction. Some of these are potentially fatal. By making these the norm, medicine has failed in its primary responsibility to “first do no harm.”