Child sacrifice: Now available with less guilt?
… [T]he root of abortion can be summed up in two words: human selfishness.
Everything is about my hopes, my plans, my dreams – things that will be dust in a few decades – and a baby is going to mess all that up.
Some ancient cultures used to sacrifice their children to appease their gods; now, we sacrifice them for personal convenience.
We just like to do it in a sterile office before we see their faces and hold them in our arms, hoping to lessen the guilt that is inescapable anyway.
~ Christopher Diamond, writing in a letter to the editor of Al.com, November 16
[Image via dharmism.wordpress.com]
Nov.17, 2011 6:00 am |
Post-abortion |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
The root of abortion actually requires more explaining. It is based on the biological truth that the desire for and ability to enjoy sexual intercourse is not linked to either the desire to become a parent or the ability to be a good one. It is linked to the biological truth that males are usual the ones seeking this act while females are the ones who pay the biological consequences for it. This fundamental INequality of the sexes — rooted not in any male chauvinist conspiracy but basic biology — leads to pregnancies that may be experienced as intolerable. As I’ve previously mentioned, the concern leading to abortion may not be fear of what could happen after the birth but resistance to the PREGNANCY ITSELF.
As I’ve pointed out before, when only those females willing to have babies get pregnant, abortion will be relegated to the dustbin of history where it belongs. A pregnancy should never cause distress but always joy. That it does not is what must be addressed.
…and we still don’t believe you, Demise. Typo. Denise.
One thing should be remembered in all this discussion of abortion: the MAJORITY of pregnancies are NOT aborted. Indeed, fully half of all unplanned pregnancies are not aborted. Most of the time, the pregnant human female makes what one writer referred to as “the prostrate sacrifice of childbirth.” There is an extraordinary amount of generosity and courage displayed in maternity wards every day.
Don’t forget the aromatherapy!
The root of abortion lies in the covenant with death. Abortion is satan’s business. The evil of child sacrifice that is abortion is his. The drawing is parents sacrificing their infants to the god Molech. It is evil.
How do we overcome satan?
By the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony. Rev 12:11
“Some ancient cultures used to sacrifice their children to appease their gods; now, we sacrifice them for personal convenience.”
I’ve thought this, too. Women’s reasons for aborting may all be different, but I think our *cultural* acceptance of abortion is the willingness to sacrifice humans, with our primary god being a certain standard of living, ie, if the woman doesn’t abort, she won’t be able to go to/finish college, get a good job, etc.
I read an excellent article about the parallels between ancient child sacrifice and abortion. Really, the reasons are the same.
The ancients decided to kill their child because “We have no food. There is famine. If we sacrifice our child the gods will send rain and we can eat.”
the moderns: “We don’t have enough money for food as it is. We need to have an abortion so that we can feed ourselves. We can’t afford to feed a baby.”
the ancients “If we sacrifice our child we will find riches and favor with the gods.”
the moderns “If we have an abortion we can focus on our careers and make lots of money. My boss will like me more if I don’t have children interfering with my career. ”
archeological evidence shows children with disabilities were most likely to be sacrificed. Sound familiar? Ancient people, modern people… makes no difference. All deceived sinners in need of a Savior.
Denise Noe says:
“It is based on the biological truth that the desire for and ability to enjoy sexual intercourse is not linked to either the desire to become a parent or the ability to be a good one.”
This is not a biological truth, it’s a spiritual one. And this disconnect is due to original sin. There is a solution, but it involves true charity (love) and self-sacrifice. How can we make true charity and self-sacrifice more popular?
“A pregnancy should never cause distress but always joy.”
The problem isn’t that people like to have sex, it’s that they carry in their hearts a severe lack of charity and are far from God. When everyone seeks to love God with all their heart, mind, and soul, sees life as sacred, and recognizes a child as a gift from God, then abortion will become extinct. Let’s get out there and spread the Good News!
Sydney: I read an excellent article about the parallels between ancient child sacrifice and abortion. Really, the reasons are the same.
The ancients decided to kill their child because “We have no food. There is famine. If we sacrifice our child the gods will send rain and we can eat.”
the moderns: “We don’t have enough money for food as it is. We need to have an abortion so that we can feed ourselves. We can’t afford to feed a baby.”
“Sacrifice” is a different deal than having resource shortages, but indeed, in the past there were times when the sick, the very old, the very young, etc. were “put out” of society for the good of the survival of the tribe as a whole.
It’s one of the most basic and apparent effects of population pressure, and I suggest that the future decades may not be too friendly toward your views.
Denise – don’t fool yourself – my oldest sons (19 and 21) and younger cousins (young men and women in their mid to late 20s) can tell you plenty of stories of young women who are the “usual ones” looking to hook up – and even if the guys are looking for it, the women are way to often willing to give it up – they are rarely innocent victims but are complicit in the bad decisions and equally responsible – unfortunately for them, they are the one carrying the baby, but that is the consequence of their choices – women who don’t want to get pregnant don’t have to – they just have to choose not to engage in behavior that any idiot knows can and does lead to pregnancy – no magic solution is needed, just responsible behavior – and since when do we get to kill anyone that causes us distress? if that was really allowed, I can assure you that you and I would both be dead already – and while I am thinking about your baloney, how about you give a scientific citation to support all the “biological truths” you are spouting – they sound like biological BS to me
oh yeah bryan. i graduated from high school in 1987 and the guys always knew to girls who would and the girls who wouldnt. nothing new there but i didnt think much had changed.
Sydney M. says:
November 17, 2011 at 10:01 am
I read an excellent article about the parallels between ancient child sacrifice and abortion. Really, the reasons are the same.
The ancients decided to kill their child because “We have no food. There is famine. If we sacrifice our child the gods will send rain and we can eat.”
the moderns: “We don’t have enough money for food as it is. We need to have an abortion so that we can feed ourselves. We can’t afford to feed a baby.”
(Denise) Let’s take this away!! We must institute a guaranteed annual income and a family allowance system. All citizens will automatically have enough for food and will have more if a baby arrives. No one in the country will fear being unable to afford a baby. If this is a reason for abortion — puff! It’s gone.
Hi Bryan,
Wow.
I was one of the “usual ones.” I was a little girl once. A shy, quiet girl who was raised in an abusive home. I wanted love and affection and thought sex was the way to get it. I was told that if I loved him I would. I “gave it up.” After awhile I just didn’t care any more.
All of the “usual ones” were once little girls too.
Thank you Lord once again for seeing what no one else saw in me and for loving me enough to rescue me from myself and from my sin. You are mine and I am Yours. I am what You say I am!! I am defined by You.
Puff!! It’s gone!!
Now can you please tackle all of the other reasons that women abort, Denise? Thanks.
The 96.7% ‘mental health’ category is made up of women who have been influenced by one or a variety of social or economic circumstances for having an abortion: 2
Other reasons women gave for having an abortion (3.3% of all reasons given) are placed within four categories:
4) assault on person.
http://www.humanrightsforunbornchildren.com/choice/13.html
Bryan, like Carla and Heather, I was one of those nice girls who gave it up too, for all the reasons Carla said, There but the grace of God go I having to contemplate an unexpected pregnancy. Carla did. We both learned some different (and similar) lessons, but I think the most important one is that sex, outside a stable committed relationship is meaningless and it is not God;s plan.
I also agree with you that women are the losers in the hookup culture. I’ve argued this on the thread before and was not warmly welcomed with my opinions, the first being that women absolutely have to protect their bodies and their hearts, and doubly so. I live and work in a University town, and I see the wreckage of promiscuity all the time with my students.
Sorry to break this to you Doug but it is ALL barbaric. ALL of it. Whether putting old or young out to die or starving and dehydrating to death those we deem “unworthy” of life, or chopping innocent human beings up in the womb.
Barbaric.
History will not be kind to YOU, Doug. As you support and defend and promote the killing of the most innocent among us.
Those that continue to fight the barbarism of abortion, the child sacrifice of abortion, the evil of abortion will prevail. We will win. It has been promised to us. Not to you.
Amen, Courtnay.
“Sacrifice” is a different deal than having resource shortages, but indeed, in the past there were times when the sick, the very old, the very young, etc. were “put out” of society for the good of the survival of the tribe as a whole.
I highly recommend the book Two Old Women, about two elderly Native Alaskan women who are abandoned by their tribe in a time of famine. It sounds grim, but it’s really a wonderful story.
http://www.amazon.com/Two-Old-Women-Velma-Wallis/dp/0060975849
Denise has some excellent points. Why do you guys discount everything? I’m not baiting… I’m genuinely wondering if I’ve missed a comment that explains away the rest. Mostly wondering about TexasGals 7:15am comment.
See? I’ve been telling Denise to take a look at her allies. You sit with child murderers and advocates of child murder.
One visit to an abortionist and poof! they’re gone.
Elizabeth, hi. You’re new. Meet Denise Noe, repetitive poster of anti-adoption sentiment and advocate of chaperoned dating as well as “the types of sex which do not lead to pregnancy.”
I assume this is why TexasGal posted as she did, though I could be wrong.
Denise, who is going to pay the taxes for that “family allowance”? Other families who are also trying to feed and clothe their children? And you trust who.. the government to effectively distribute the tax dollars to family without eating up 85 cents on every dollar with bureaucracy? I sure don’t.
I believe in churches awakening to the duty Christ gave them to care for each other and for the poor.
I believe in personal accountability.
Carla says:
November 17, 2011 at 11:21 am
Puff!! It’s gone!!
Now can you please tackle all of the other reasons that women abort, Denise? Thanks.
The 96.7% ‘mental health’ category is made up of women who have been influenced by one or a variety of social or economic circumstances for having an abortion: 2
Even if, somehow, in every single case, all of the motivations and subtleties behind the decision to have an abortion could be reduced to a sense of “selfishness”, even one that is strictly concerned with material things, so what? That isn’t much of a criticism in a free market economy that is necessarily driven by self-interest, especially when it’s usually coming from the people who are the most ardent supporters and defenders of the mechanisms of capitalism.
Sydney M. says:
November 17, 2011 at 12:39 pm
Denise, who is going to pay the taxes for that “family allowance”? Other families who are also trying to feed and clothe their children?
(Denise) Yes, it would be tax-funded. That floor on income would prevent all our citizens from fearing utter devastation and ruin. It would mean that everyone in the country would know funds adequate to care for a baby would be on the way.
If abortion is in fact triggered by financial fears, the family allowance should make this abhorrent practice take a welcome nosedive.
Defenders of capitalism? Yes?
Defenders of murder, no. Don’t ever try to equate the two.
Denise, where is this money going to come from, for this family allowance? Our current president has allowed too much socialism into our thinking as it is. Just because a person decides not to kill their own child does not mean that I am responsible for supporting him or her.
And Joan, I wouldn’t care if abortion was being committed to bring back Mother Teresa. Murdering the innocent is always, always wrong. Just like rape. Just like child abuse. Just like murder of a child 30 seconds old. Wrong.
1) identified foetal abnormality,
(Denise) Handicaps don’t necessarily mean a poor quality of life. Pregnant females should be informed of this truth. We need to ensure adequate resources directed toward handicapped young.
When one kills in pursuit of material things that is a problem Joan.
Denise, that is like saying “If we want to stop rape we need to pay taxes so that money can be given to men to relieve their lusts with prostitutes.”
I am trying to feed my own family, thanks. I don’t expect others to take care of us. And I cannot afford to be forced to take care of other families either. I give to charity when and how I can. I am responsible for MY children FIRST. I do not want the government forcibly removing even more of my family’s income, thank you.
I believe in charity to support families in need. Not redistribution of wealth which if you studied history even one iota Denise you would know is always an utter failure, leads to widespread abandonment of any personal responsibility and ultimately societal collapse.
“I believe in charity to support families in need. Not redistribution of wealth”
So when poor women no longer have access to contraception and abortion and have babies that they can’t afford, you would abandon them without a social safety net? And please don’t tell me that churches (which in my state are experiencing severe financial problems) and charity can take the place of Medicaid, food stamps, and monthly (time limited) TANF payments.
You claim that “redistribution of wealth” is “always” a failure. I guess you’re not aware of the welfare to work programs that are supported with tax dollars. I guess you don’t care about rehabilitation programs for those with disabilities, substance abuse, and mental health programs that have been quite successful in mainstreaming these folks. I guess you don’t care about taxpayer funded emergency shelters that keep people out of the cold. (Let em starve and freeze to death, right?). I guess you don’t care about improved health for poor children in programs that are funded throught “redistribution of wealth.”
And I guess if your husband looses his job, he won’t take unemployment compensation because it’s partially funded by “wealth redisbribution.” And if that happens, you won’t avail yourself to a Medicaid program for you and your children. You’ll find a friend to help you deliver your baby and not take advantage of Medicaid programs for your children’s health. Oh, and how bout special education. That’s paid for by “redistribution of wealth.”
I obviously have more money than you do and I don’t begrudge a dime for public assistance programs. I do have a problem with a tax code that’s skewed towards the wealthy and numerous tax breaks that result in Warren Buffet paying a lower tax rate than his secretary. I do have a problem with tax money going to pay for wars. But our people are our future – especially the children. In your world, there will be lots more of these children with no future because you’re doing your Ayn Rand thing. But fine, those kids will look so cute begging on the street.
But once again, the craven hypocrisy of the pro-life movement rears its ugly head. Let them bear children and then they’re on their own. How “pro-life” and Christian is that although the Catholic Church seems to have abandoned its committment to the poor and is now focusing on abortion and gay marriage. But yeah, let’s take away the social safety net and abandon poor families. That’s the recipe for “societal collapse.”
Oh, and I forgot another use for your redistributed income – child protective services which takes care of neglected and abused children. Maybe we should do away with that so you can keep more of your money, eh?
OH yes, our resident socialist comes atrollin.’
Took some time off of your Wall Street protest to come visit for a while, did ya?
Nobody on this blog said anything about not wanting to help the truly needy. The Government can’t pay for everything. It’s been trying, and we fail when we learn to rely upon it and America fails because it can’t pay its bills.
Americans are the most generous people on earth. Especially church/synagogue/mosque going Americans.
People, believe it or not, can act as their own “social safety net.”You can save yourselves a lot of grief if you live your life honorably and don’t get pregnant in the first place. Why is it so darn hard for people to take their own destinies in their own hands? You think that just because you throw money at a problem, it will cure it. (I bet you LOVE the Teachers’ Unions). No. What we have in this country is a character and moral problem, ESPECIALLY when it comes to abortion.
We are on the brink of societal collaspse, no doubt, but ithis is squarely built on the back of the family falling apart.And it’s stupid to make the claim that I don’t support ANY social programs when really what I am against are entitlements. My ancestry is European-American. My mom grew up poor. It never occurred to her that ther was shame in this or that she had to stay that way OR (and this is a big one, CC, so listen up), she couldn’t get out of her situation by busting her butt every single day. If all she’d have to do was go down to the welfare office and get a check, why would she have to change her life?
Oh, and PS,
CC–you and your abortion loving buddies can send in extra tax dollars if you want. Nothing’s preventing you from doing that.
I am not a historian but I believe I am abserving that the strongest tie to abortion historically and now is the belief that people are inherently evil. It is easier to commit harm against someone when you convince yourself that they are a bad person. But it is harder to harm someone you believe is inherintly good. Some Christian denominations in the past have believed that people are inherintly evil and they have also encouraged abortion. But most religions tend to claim that people are inherintly good and oppose abortion which causes people to think anti-abortion thought comes from religious sensibilities even though there are many non-religious who are pro-life. If you tell a child he is good he will believe it and behave good. If you tell a kid he is bad he will believe it and behave bad. When a national leader (such as Hitler) claims that certain people are bad it is a a way to make people complacent to injustice against those people. Therefore it is important to insist that people are inherintly good. The mercy of Jesus teaches this. Almost everything the bible says Jesus said and did was an act of mercy. The purpose of his death was for mercy for us. Mercy is for people who are inherintly good. You give mercy to someone who you expect will not take advantage of you but will change their ways.
(Denise) … We must institute a guaranteed annual income
Guaranteed no matter how hard someone works? Unfortunately, if you subsidize something (non-hard work), it encourages it. To pay for the system, you would have to tax those who work harder, and taxing something discourages it (hard work). That type of system is simply not sustainable (reference Greece).
Totally disagree Lowlyone.
But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: while we were still sinners Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; Romans 3:10
Jesus came to die and save ALL of us. All of us are sinful. We are desperately wicked. We are in desperate need of a Savior. Mercy is for the desperately wicked.
The spiritual reasons for abortion are EXACTLY the same whether it involves sacrificing to Molech thru the Topeth, or sacrificing to “my needs” thru the suction canula.
God decides who will “catch”. The decision to have sex IS the decision to procreate. That is the point where the term “choice” is applicable.
It is the epitome of selfishness and self-deceit to decide to kill the gift that God gives you thru the evil of Abortion. Your life might take many turns. Perhaps you might be crippled horribly in a car accident. Perhaps you might have a wonderful career and forsake having children. Perhaps you might decide to have sex, and then allow the deceit of victimhood color your parenting. Perhaps you might decide to spit the gift back in God’s face using a physician and a clean room.
All of these things are the interaction between your choices and God’s will for your life. You must take the cards that you are dealt and fulfill your responsibilities to God and those around you.
If God entrusts you with the gift of a child, then the proper and good choice is to care for that child, putting away selfishness and resisting the evil forces that wish to steal, kill and destroy. You will serve a god. Once a child is in play, that is a fact that is irrefutable. You will either serve the God of heaven, or the god of this earth. The choice is yours… but there are consequences. Some much more than you will be willing to pay.
Carla,
Your quote doesn’t contain the words “desperately wicked”, only “sinners”. We are sinners but that does not make us inherintly evil. Jesus described us as enslaved by sin and said the anyone who sins is enslaved by it. In other words the enslaver is the evil not the enslaved. For example someone who is an alcoholic would behave more rightly if they weren’t addicted. Consider where he told people to turn the other cheek when someone hits them. If people are enherintly evil the person who attacked will take advantage and hit more but if people are good then the person attacking will realize that they are not threatened and back off. Jesus said this in expectation that people are good.
Please quote any reference in Scripture where Jesus said people are good.
“The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?” Jeremiah 17:9
I prefer this translation from the American Standard Version “The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?” It then goes on to to state that God knows the heart suggesting that this quote is a human interpretation of the heart.
Is it better for a husband to say “I love you” to his wife or act with love? We see that we are good by the actions of Jesus toward us. Did Jesus tell Peter to use his sword or drop it when they came to crusify Him? The love of Jesus for us is overflowing. We can distrust words but not actions. You ask me where Jesus said that we are good? John 3:14. If we are evil why did God create us? Isn’t God good? Why didnt God kill Adam and Eve before they reproduced? Why didn’t God only put men in Noahs Ark so we wouldn’t continue? If God wants us to continue and reproduce and live forever then he sees good in us. Our value is greater than our failings.
The word “inherent” speaks of heredity. We inherit from Adam the sinful nature every human is born with: Romans 5:12 says “Wherefore, as by one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned”.
The following verses speak of our inheritance as death due to one man, but by one man, Jesus Christ, God incarnate, righteousness is come and the free gift of God (eternal life) is made available to all who will receive it.
1 Cor 15:22 “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”
Romans 5:6 “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly”
“For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.” Romans 5:10
Jesus in John 8:44 stated, “Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speakth a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” This He spoke to the Jews that believed on Him (see v. 31) but were arguing they weren’t slaves to anyone (the ol’ “we’re pretty good people & don’t need saving” argument).
In summary: heirs to death, enemies of God, ungodly and of our father the devil = the default condition of mankind.
Now, if any man be IN CHRIST, he is a new creation, old things have passed away and all things are become new! (2 Cor 5:17). That’s what makes the Gospel good news and why those whom God has delivered from the power of darkness and has translated into the kingdom of His dear Son: Jesus (Col 1:13) can’t keep quiet about it!
Jesus told Peter to put his sword down because, as John 3:14 says, “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: ”
it was God’s plan of redemption for Jesus to go to the Cross, and no one was going to get in the way of it. No mention of our goodness in that verse, did you mean another?
God said, “Let us make man in Our image” and did so, but because everything God created only reproduces after its own kind, after Adam sinned, he could only beget fallen, sinful human beings in Adam’s image. It is very clear why God chose His plan of redemption instead of total annihilation: His love for us. To prevent Adam and Eve from eating from the Tree of Life and living eternally in a fallen world in corrupted bodies, he barred entrance to the Garden (Gen 3:22). It was an act of mercy and love.
I will agree with you, LowlyOne, in this point: God loved us so much He would, and did, take our punishment on Himself. He set the rules in place that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins, and in His integrity played by His own rules. Every animal from the first two killed to clothe Adam & Eve throughout all the Old Testament was a type and shadow of the coming perfect sacrifice which would obtain eternal redemption (Heb 9:12) for us. To those who have accepted this free gift of God (Eph 2:8), He counts them as family, adopted into the very family of God (Eph 1:5).
klynn73,
No the default condition of man was that of Adam and Eve before the fall. Jesus described the default as Adam and Eve when He talked about the rule of not getting a divorce. Sin is our slaver not our natural condition. We inherent something that is not natural to us like a virus affects a computer and passes on to other computers. We can be freed from it and then we will be good. The removal of our sin is the removal of something we were not designed with to begin with.
Also earlier I meant to put down John 3:16 not John 3:14.
I guess we’ll have to disagree, then. I quoted multiple scriptures describing our apart-from-God’s-Grace condition as God’s enemy, children of the devil, and heirs to death and you quoted John 3:16. It says God so loved the world that He sent His Son…yet Jesus says in John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you. To my above list add “God-haters” by nature. God loves us because He is love, not because we are lovely. I thank Him for that truth continually!
Ok but you ignored my questions about why God would create man as evil if God is good.
When you say “God-haters” that is a result of sin not human nature.
Try this Matthew 13:24-30 “Another parable set he before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man that owed good seed in his field: but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares also among the wheat, and went away. But when the blade sprang up and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. And the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst thou not sow good seed in thy field? whence then hath it tares? And he said unto them, An enemy hath done this. And the servants say unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he saith, Nay; lest haply while ye gather up the tares, ye root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather up first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn.”
Notice the servents (Angels) knew God sows good seed and he did so but they were corrupted by the enemy.
I think the root of abortion is more fear than selfishness. Not 100% of the time, but I think more people, at least from the available stats, are afraid of being able to support their new family than there are people who simply want to have more time to party or do what they want.
“You can save yourselves a lot of grief if you live your life honorably and don’t get pregnant in the first place.”
But then we have folks like one of my relatives who had four children by a husband who left her high and dry. Thanks to a social safety net – i.e. “welfare” – she was able to get taxpayer funded financial assistance/medicaid/ food stamps/child care while she attended nursing school to get her degree which allowed her to become an RN and go off welfare. I guess, in your book, she was being “dishonorable” when she had her children by her lawfully wedded husband when things were going very well.
Not all women who have children and need assistance are unmarried “sluts.”
And BTW, I don’t think abortion is always the answer for a poor woman’s problems. What’s important is that we support those women who do have children. Thanks to a social safety net, in combination with private charities and food banks, we can do that. And that’s what’s really important because without strong families (whatever form they take) we fail as a society.
CC, no one is trying to outlaw condoms so your hysteria over banning contraception is laughable.
Secondly, because you had sex, got pregnant and can’t afford a child I must be forced to pay you for it so you don’t kill it? Does this apply to born children too? I’ve got a 5 year old and a 21 week old male fetus in my womb. You better cough up some dough now so I don’t kill them, right? By your logic… not that you’d care about my kicking baby in my womb but maybe you’d care a little about the 5 year old?
Its wrong to kill your kids. Period. And I shouldn’t be FORCED to take care of your or anyone’s children. I already stated that I do care for other poor families and donate if and when I can. I used to be able to donate a lot more to charity. My husband and I are really really struggling this year to put food on the table and pay our bills. We should have even more of our money forcibly removed from us to pay other parents when we are parents ourselves trying to take care of our own children?
Btw, charities do exist in this country and for every dollar donated, more of it reaches the people it was intended to help than ANY government social program. Look at the waste in school and in the welfare system. All that money stolen from tax payers to “help the poor” and bureaucracy eats it up. And what reaches “the poor” sometimes falls into the hands of the “lazy” milking the system, not those truly in need.
And as already suggested, if you are so concerned then you can certainly send more money in this April, CC
“think the root of abortion is more fear than selfishness.”
I agree. What other than fear could persuade a woman to snuff out the life of her child? That’s why, when the PP website says that most women feel “relief” after abortions, they’re probably for once telling the truth. Seems to me that abortion is a desperate act – it’s not surprising that alot of women would feel “relief” immediately afterwards.
I’m beginning to wonder if the people who say they want to decrease abortions are really serious about it. One of the primary motivators for it is — supposedly — the fear that the woman will be unable to support a baby if she carries to term. There is a way to alleviate this fear: a government guaranteed payment for the care of babies. Yes, it would have to be paid for by tax dollars which go to a great variety of things. Trying to enforce laws against illegal drugs, prostitution, etc. gobbles up many tax dollars. The family allowance might motivate pregnant females to make the physical sacrifice necessary to carry to term and give birth — thus saving the life of the unborn. Yet several of you are averse to a measure that might lead pregnant females to give birth rather than abort.
Carrying for nine months and giving birth is a great and wonderful sacrifice. A family allowance could motivate more to make this sacrifice, meaning fewer abortions and more births.
Does anyone REALLY want to take reduce abortions?
Taking away a major reason given for them would do that.
Because Denise, for the umteenth time, government IS NOT A GOOD PROVIDER. I would rather funnel my dollars into an organization that really DOES help poor mothers. Do your research.
I mean, you are aware that we ALREADY have a safety net for poor mothers? Welfare. Works wonders, right?
Who gets this family allowance? How bout rich families that already have hundreds of thousands of dollars? My husband supporting a family of 4 on a meager salary should have to pay them too? Socialism doesn’t work Denise. ITS BEEN TRIED.
If you really want to help poor mothers, a government program is not the way to do it.
LO, Jesus explains this parable (Mt 13:19 & Mk 4:14) very clearly: the “seed” is the Word of God, not people. God gave people the ability to chose wrong and right, that does not mean “He made men evil”. Evil results from the principle of the universe that light has its opposite in darkness, good – evil, peace – strife. The entire Word of God must be taken in its context when trying to tackle subjects like Is man inherently good/corrupt? It is crystal clear to me that apart from God we are utterly depraved and capable of all manner of atrocity. Jesus said, “I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.” John 15:5. I can’t continue this, I’ve got Bible study tonight.
CC’s comment @ 6:30 = why is it always in the PA comments we see them referring to women as “sluts”? Trying desperately to put words in our mouths again, I see. And the earlier comment about being wealthier than Sydney? I see her as infinitely richer than you. When she is your age, she will have at a minimum her sons and any grandchildren they have to surround her and keep her from waxing cold in bitter regret of a life sold out to an empty, shallow philosophy. Does your money draw you crayon pictures, CC? Does it hug you with chubby arms around your neck? Tell you it loves you? Didn’t think so.
(Sydney, you know the baby’s another little boy, did I read that correctly? YAY! Congratulations.)
cc, for lack of a better term, s*$t happens. Your relative–I am happy that she was able to get her RN. I grew up in an abusive house and I had an eating disorder and I sufferered from severe depression after my 2nd child was born. Is there a government program for me? Is there a SS payment for me? There should be! I’m UNable.
Not. I worked my butt off in college no matter what, and because of my grades,I was able to get assistantships for both my MA and PhD programs. I found out that I was able. I don’t WANT nor need the government taling care of me. Why? First of all, because I have a church that would back me up before Uncle Sam is. Plus, I married a hard-working good man who will never leave me, and btw, I waited til I met him in my late 20s so I was a little wiser about who would father my children.
When people are held responsible for their decisions, they will make better ones. USA as a nanny just plain out SUCKS.
klynn73 you can’t take the meaning of seed from one parable and apply it to another.The very next parable after the one I mentioned described a musturd seed to represent faith.The explanation of the parable I mention is explained in full in Matthew 13:36-43 where it states that the good seed is the children of God.
Yeah, LowlyOne, I see now you’ve edited your post to be more specific which parable in Mt 13 you’re referring to—children of the kingdom are those who’ve been made God’s children through Jesus’ sacrifice. There will always be tares among the wheat (people feigning being believers who are not), this has nothing to do with the “inherently good/bad” question. Now, really, I’ve got to go.
Ok klynn73 go to you class. We might continue some other time.
Meh, I don’t want to pay for the street to be maintained so that you can drive your cars on them. I don’t want to pay taxes to send your kids to school. I don’t want to have to pay more taxes because your churches are tax-exempt. Hmm, but that’s what happens, because that’s how a society works.
“Plus, I married a hard-working good man who will never leave me, and btw, I waited til I met him in my late 20s so I was a little wiser about who would father my children.”
This is so laden with value judgments that I want to scream. I’m sure the woman CC was talking about could’ve told from the get-go that her husband was a deadbeat, right? She should have been able to, no? It’s called personal responsibility! What a useless platitude. It’s laughable that you can just sit back and tell everybody to eat bootstraps when you’ve got a man to take care of all your needs. Personal responsibility, my a$$.
Denise-
Have a look at Australia. We have socialised healthcare, with free baby deliveries in any public hospital, and allowances for family, daycare, education and housing that equal almost $1000 in benefits every two weeks for a single mother with one child, plus one-time allowances of another $5-$8K when the baby is born,
…and a higher per-capita abortion rate than the US, in fact, one of the highest abortion rates in the Western world.
I personally counsel hundreds of women each year who are considering abortion. They often cite financial worries as a reason, but actually, very few are genuinely in financial distress. What they usually mean by “I can’t afford a baby” is “I’m afraid I won’t be able to continue the lifestyle I am accustomed to if I have a baby.”
There are some who genuinely fear perceived financial pressures, and just need some common sense advice about the realities of having a child (no, babies don’t need to cost the earth, and yes, there’s lots of assistance available) but for most, the issue is more personal than practical.
For most of my clients, it’s not that they can’t keep the baby, it’s that they decide that they won’t.
“The decision to have sex IS the decision to procreate. That is the point where the term “choice” is applicable.”
Well said!! Too many abortion advocates pull the rape card when in fact many women who have abortions had consensual sex. In fact, we had a story recently by an abortion advocate on her blog who said she conceived a child on by choice with her male partner, told her family and coworkers, and after the pregnancy became visible, she decided to get an abortion and lie to everyone that it was a miscarriage. THAT is the insanity at the end of the abortion industry’s road, my friend.
Totally agree, EX GOP!!!
I think the root of abortion is more fear than selfishness.
Michelle PRC ED says:
November 18, 2011 at 4:43 am
Denise-
Have a look at Australia. We have socialised healthcare, with free baby deliveries in any public hospital, and allowances for family, daycare, education and housing that equal almost $1000 in benefits every two weeks for a single mother with one child, plus one-time allowances of another $5-$8K when the baby is born,
…and a higher per-capita abortion rate than the US, in fact, one of the highest abortion rates in the Western world.
(Denise) Then is it possible that worries about caring for a child are not the real reason for abortion but only the reason given?
I have a friend who had an abortion because she rejected the PREGNANCY ITSELF. She believes that certain brain chemicals fail to activate during some unwanted pregnancies. Those chemicals are necessary to accept the conditions of pregnancy itself: swell and swell and swell, days of pain in labor and stretching and sweating and screaming. Thus, she terminated the pregnancy because continuing the physical condition of pregnancy was unacceptable.
I asked her about what would have happened if she HAD carried and given birth. She replied that “in some wildly speculative parallel universe” if she had given birth she would have had no problem raising the baby. She felt “no stigma” from her family or anyone around her.
If Australia is a country in which finances for babies are taken care of, then it might be that women abort because they find the pregnancy itself unacceptable and simply mention concerns about raising the baby as a kind of excuse both to themselves and others.
Sorry to break this to you Doug but it is ALL barbaric. ALL of it. Whether putting old or young out to die or starving and dehydrating to death those we deem “unworthy” of life, or chopping innocent human beings up in the womb.
Barbaric.
Okay, Carla, you think it’s barbaric.
____
History will not be kind to YOU, Doug. As you support and defend and promote the killing of the most innocent among us.
History doesn’t have much to do with anything, there. Population pressure, however, and the effects – regardless of how much we may decry them – are very real.
don’t want children or any more children
(Denise) Carla, do you know why women in this category have not been sterilized? I’ve never had an abortion in large part because I underwent a tubal ligation and did not engage in the type of sex that can lead to pregnancy prior to that operation.
What can be done to encourage more tubal ligations among this group?
Personally, I think in a married couple it is better for the wife to get a tubal ligation than the husband a vasectomy because the wife is protected from pregnancy in the event of rape.
Megan
Hate to tell you, but we all make judgment calls all the time. It is especially crucial that you have good judgment when you are picking out who will be the father of your children. I can’t think of another decision that is more important or that will have a greater impact on your destiny and legacy. Can you?
If personal responsibility is a useless platitude, well, then, it makes no difference what we do or say or think.
WRONG. Some decisions are better than others, We all have to live with the ones we made. But expecting a government program to save you from those wrong decisions is only a bad bad bad idea.
PS–My man takes care of his family because that’s what good men do, Carla.
Huh? :)
PS–My man takes care of his family because that’s what good men do, Carla.
Sorry Carla–brain fart. I meant Megan!!
Sigh. Still thinking of you.
“WRONG. Some decisions are better than others, We all have to live with the ones we made. But expecting a government program to save you from those wrong decisions is only a bad bad bad idea.”
You’re walking dangerously close to victim-blaming. Even if the warning signs of abuse were flashing red–which they’re often not–no woman, or man, deserves to be treated like crap by their spouse. I sure as heck hope we live in a society that will take care of people when they’ve been victimized in this way. Most nonprofits that help out women and families receive a mix of private donations and public funding. By decrying the govt’s involvement in providing a safety net to vulnerable people, you’re effectively calling for the elimination of domestic violence programs, homeless shelters, and food banks. Is that really what you support?
“I can’t think of another decision that is more important or that will have a greater impact on your destiny and legacy. Can you?”
Welp, I guess it would be if I shelved my desire for self-sufficiency.
Plus, I married a hard-working good man who will never leave me, and btw, I waited til I met him in my late 20s so I was a little wiser about who would father my children.
Bully for you, Courtnay. Really. And if you ever have the misfortune to be diagnosed with breast cancer, I’m sure that posters at this site will show their respect for your decision by refraining from posting endlessly about how your case can be a cautionary tale for misguided young girls who might think of you as a good example.
Since you don’t think the government should be handing out money to families, I hope that you stand on principle and refuse to take the child tax credit, deduct child care expenses, or invest in a 529 plan.
Welcome to the modern world of Obamaland, where if you aren’t willing to cheerfully hand over 60% of your salary to a government program, you are labled as a “bully” and “unfeeling.”
Come into my world, all of y’all whiny, miserable whiners, and see how hard I work, how much time I give to my community, and how much money I donate to indispensible causes. But when it comes to the government? Until they show mw they can be trustworthy with MY money, they’ll get as little as possible.
And Lisa?? You can bite me. I WAS a misguided young girl. And now I’m a mature, hard-working responsible woman, wife, mother, librarian, and TAXPAYER. And it wasn’t the GOVERNMENT or any PROGRAM that saved me, either.
Courtnay:
“Bully for you” does not mean “You are a bully.” It is an idiomatic phrase meaning “Good for you!” It’s sometimes used as sincere praise, and sometimes as an ironic response to someone who is patting him/herself on the back.
Lisa, I know this. Did you not read that I was Phi Beta Kappa? ;)
“Hate to tell you, but we all make judgment calls all the time. It is especially crucial that you have good judgment when you are picking out who will be the father of your children. I can’t think of another decision that is more important or that will have a greater impact on your destiny and legacy. Can you?”
Wow. The pastor in my parent’s church (lovely man, told me I was at fault for being abused) was caught sleeping with his wife’s sister when I was a teen. His wife was shocked, she had thought she had married a wonderful, God-fearing, hard-working man who would never leave her. Everyone does. I don’t know anyone who got married thinking that their spouse would turn out to be lazy, or have mental problems, or a cheater, or abusive, etc, etc, etc. And even if everyone chooses wisely and marries Mr or Miss Perfect, there is still illness, accidents, and other things that can take that person away from you.
So tired of people acting like everyone in a bad situation put themselves there.
Lisa, I know this. Did you not read that I was Phi Beta Kappa?
Yeah, I’ll believe it when I get the secret handshake, sister. <g>
Oh Man! There’s a handshake?? All I got was a key and dinner.
Jack, sigh. WE HAVE TO MAKE BETTER DECISIONS. We are responsible for ourselves and for the children we bring into this world. How can you disagree with what I wrote?
Of course crap happens. It;’s happened to BOTH of us. And if your pastor told you it was your fault you got abused, then that’s the crappiest (other than the abuse itself). Why does everyone get so riled up when I suggest folks man or woman up and take responsibility for your choices?? CHOICES MEAN SOMETHING, PEOPLE.
AND THEY’RE NOT ALL EQUAL.
I don’t disagree with the fact we all need to make better choices. But even if people make great choices, bad things happen. There seems to be this attitude that the only reason anyone woukd be in a bad situation is because they are lazy/stupid/what-have-you. My point was that making the right choices doesn’t innoculate you from bad things happening, and it seems like a bit of your attitude is victim-blaming. If your best friend’s husband was caught cheating, would you really tell her that she should have chosen better?? Or would you give her comfort?
I said myself that bad stuff happens, and NOBODY is innoculated from it. That’s called LIFE.
But I say this to all the folks out there who think you can run around, treat your body like an amusement park, casually sleep with whatever you want, but expect to reap what you sow: heartache, resentment, STDs, unexpected pregnacies, drug and alcoholism and (this is the worst) no fidelity to anything meaningful. I am not speaking of my hypothetical best friend who all of a sudden finds out that her spouse has been unfaithful. OF COURSE I comfort her (after I kick her husband’s a$$).
All this points to the truth that God’s way as he has revealed himself through his Son and his Word, works. Many of us have learned the hard way, but now that I’m on the other side of 40, what nights and weeks and even years of heartache could I have saved myself from if I had just followed his simple truths about how women and men are supposed to work out their lives together:
Sex is meant for marriage.
Stay true to one another.
Love your children: I gave them to you, they are gifts.
Love each other.
Love Me.
It aint rocket science, people.
“It aint rocket science, people” – that’s for sure! It’s not science of any type, it’s fantasy.