Abortion is a black and white issue
Feb.23, 2013 8:05 am |
Industry watch |
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Ashley Herzog addresses why Jennifer Morbelli aborted so late in her pregnancy
http://townhall.com/columnists/ashleyherzog/2013/02/14/abortion-for-disabled-babies-whos-to-blame-n1512149
All you can do is warn them. I have and they enter anyway . many still leave in an ambulance. don’t say we didn’t warn you!
Regarding the Herzog article: Helping the disabled by denying them life!? Sickens me, truly.
As for these two women and their babies, we as a society have failed them. And they have failed as well – to understand the value of life versus the value of the world’s opinions.
Who said it the other day? Thank you, God, that this is not our home!
As for these two women and their babies, we as a society have failed them. And they have failed as well – to understand the value of life versus the value of the world’s opinions.
With all due respect, LifeJoy, I am a member of society in fairly good standing and I don’t feel that I have failed anyone.
We all have a free will. I am sure that these women knew there were alternatives to abortion. Yet, at the end of the day they made a conscious decision to pay a “doctor” to kill their unborn children.
While I agree we should have compassion, when are prolifers going to realize that not all women are coerced or pressured into having abortions?
Hi phillymiss…i must agree. I’ve met plenty of women who knew what they were doing. They were old enough to understand what an abortion would do…free them of a pregnancy that would clash with school or work. One woman i knew was a nursing student and began a steamy sexual relationship with a man yet wanted no future with him. shed always tell me about the different places they would have kinky sex. i asked her if Bob was using a condom and her reply was no we don’t use anything. i told her you know you’re gonna get pregnant and she DID. she told me I’m just gonna have an abortion. so despite the fact that the dad didn’t want her to she did and their relationship ended. she finished nursing school.
Hi phillymiss…i must agree. I’ve met plenty of women who knew what they were doing. They were old enough to understand what an abortion would do…free them of a pregnancy that would clash with school or work
I agree, but for thinking like this we are labeled as BAD PROLIFERS!
LifeJoy says:
February 23, 2013 at 5:17 pm
Regarding the Herzog article: Helping the disabled by denying them life!? Sickens me, truly.
As for these two women and their babies, we as a society have failed them. And they have failed as well – to understand the value of life versus the value of the world’s opinions.
(Denise) Jennifer Morbelli was likely shocked and terribly upset when she learned of the deformities and illness. She may well have believed that aborting would end pain and that it was the only right thing to do given the unexpectedly horrible circumstances.
Someone who has just been told about this is in a very vulnerable position.
I never asked my friend who said that if he’d gotten a woman pregnant “should have aborted” and elaborated “because I would have made her life so miserable she would have had to abort just to get some peace” what he would have done to make her miserable. However, a woman who is pregnant is in a vulnerable situation so it might not be that difficult to bully her into something.
Right p.m. however to say that a 27 year old nursing student with 2 already born children didn’t understand how babies were made would be incorrect. SHE DID KNOW. She did nothing to prevent that pregnancy and within 2 months of her non stop sexual relationship her period was late. No surprises …she was pregnant . Her solution was the abortion and dumping the guy to finish school . She was quite matter a fact about it afterwards. I’m not bad pro life. I’m honest pro life.
I can’t sugar coat the facts in some cases. This guy wanted her to have the baby. Her parents didn’t pressure her. She had a pretty good supply of money and ample family support. A condom could have been purchased at any drug store. So it would be fair to say that her choice of contraception in this case was abortion.
I felt that in the case of the woman i knew in my post above she should have abstained from sex and gotten her degree. abstinence is possible. I’ve done it.
Heck are there victims of abortion? Absolutely Are their women who just make poor choices? Yep. And might i add this woman and I are still friends to this day and we are both in our early 40s….do i hate her for what she’s done? NO! Do i think she made a bad choice ..YES! Does she know how i feel about it? Yes! But the baby is gone and i now see signs of post abortion syndrome. She doesn’t even identity herself as pro choice. We just don’t talk about the abortion.
There might be a tendency to assume that aborting a severely defective fetus means cutting short suffering. Jennifer Morbelli was SO late in the pregnancy that it is hard to explain seeking an abortion any other way.
I have a friend whose sister-in-law discovered she was carrying a fetus with anencephaly. She carried to term. The baby died a few hours after birth. However, the little boy died whole. He may have been held during his very brief life. When you can’t do very much, doing just a little can mean a lot.
It is really too bad that Jennifer Morbelli didn’t let the pregnancy take its course and just hold her baby for awhile before life left the little one. She could have cherished a pleasant memory. Again, not much — but something.
Jennifer should be alive today and planning for the birth and death of her daughter. She would have gotten to hold her and kiss her and love her before she passed away.
phillymiss – I certainly fit your definition of “bad pro-lifer” as well, to be perfectly honest. My first and still reigning reaction to all this is less than sympathetic for anyone involved other than the babies. But I am trying. In fact, you witnessed me attempting to understand.
I do believe that society at large has been constructed by our sinful behavior in such a way that killing a child can be seen as compassionate and right, or simply “a difficult decision that we shouldn’t judge.” Giant fail. These two women were not wise enough to see this view as garbage. Giant fail.
I generally do not completely embrace the whole we are complicit thing either, but if I spoke a little more boldly, spent a little more money, sacrificed a little more time, towards the movement, along with every single person who claims to be pro-life, maybe the big lie wouldn’t be so prominent out there in the world, and these women would find a lot less validation for their own sinful nature.
I understand where you are coming frome lifejoy …I’m agreeing with phillymiss that we have free will. now i also know a woman who became pregnant at the age of 13 and she was pressured by her entire family to abort. her grandmother took her to the clinic. she’s in her 40s now and we met doing pro life work together. she regrets her abortion . i would put her in the victim category
As far as Jennifers story goes i really do not understand why she would do this. i can’t call her a victim. she wwas a teacher and she was older. She paid with her life. We can’t go around calling all women of abortions victims. what if an alcoholic drove drunk and killed someone drunk on the rd.? He could say I’m a victim of a disease called alcoholism. well you also made a poor choice by drinking n drivingand the courts would see it my way
Sorry for the typos ..you have to be responsible for your own actions
Many people make poor decisions and pay with their lives..it happens every day.
Was she pressured?
Was she in shock from the diagnosis?
Was there ANYONE around her telling her to deliver her child?
Did she have support to carry her baby or just to abort? Was she referred to families that had poor prenatal diagnosis and carried their babies to term?
Was she referred to perinatal hospice? Was she given any hope at all that she could hold
her daughter until she died?
Who referred her to CARHART??!!!
Did her husband and parents push her to do this and offer abortion as her ONLY choice? Did they tell her that this was the “best” thing they could do?
Of course Madison and her mother were victims.
Gads. I need to stop even bothering with those that think women are never victims of abortion.
Please read Carhart’s “fact” sheet about late term abortion.
Was Jennifer fully informed that she was risking her life? That she might die?
I’m sorry, but as someone who was pregnant with no support and being pressured to abort, I find it hard to take that as an excuse. It was hard, it was difficult, but it was NOT impossible, and anyone could have done the right thing. I’m not special, superhuman, wonderful, or great.
It doesn’t have to get ugly but it might….Not ALL women are victims of abortion.
I am no way JUSTIFYING this abortion.
Or mine. Or any of the thousands that will happen today.
But WHY do we feel the need to sit in judgment of women and say that she was a victim or she wasn’t. She “knew exactly what she was doing.” She “got what she paid for.” She “hopped right up on that table.”
Does it make you feel better that you can blame a dead woman?
Or shame those who you think KNEW EXACTLY what they were doing? That you get to pick and choose who you think is a victim or not a victim?
I will never understand it. Never. It sickens me. Truly.
You nor I KNOW what was going on in Jennifer’s heart or head. I will continue to have compassion on those who take the devastating road of abortion. Whether they knew fetal development or not. Whether they flip me off as they walk in. Whether they are scared and alone and don’t know what to do. Whether they are forced or coerced.
I place the blame squarely on those that prey on women and profit from death.
Carla to be fair some women are victims of tabortion But NOT
Not all above post
No. I will never believe that. Never. I have met too many women. I have read and heard too many stories. I have lived it. I have seen the most hardened hearts soften to the truth and watched women crumble under the grief of what they have done. The most adamant, in your face, hardened women who you would say is not a victim find grace and peace and compassion.
All women are victims of abortion. We have all bought the lie. We have all been deceived into thinking that killing is an answer. We have all been emotionally and spiritually and physically harmed in some way. Satan uses abortion to keep His daughters in bondage. It is his way of keeping us from Christ.
There is no denying that.
I have yet to see Gloria Steinam shed a tear. i call her an abortion pimp
Heather,
You are my sister in Christ.
We are called to pray for all. We are called to love our neighbor. And yes we are called to PRAY for post abortive women. And love them and show mercy and grace and compassion. Even to Gloria Steinem. Not call her names.
It depends on how we each define the word victim of course. I therefore opt to avoid it usually and instead address whatever factor of victimization is being discussed. Exercising free will? Suffering negative consequences?
I do know that coercion is a very real part of many women’s decisions to abort. I do not see coercion as synonymous with influence, persuade, or even necessarily pressure. It’s more than that. But the word is thrown around a lot and misused at times. Where do we draw the line?
The world tries to “coerce/persuade/pressure” me into all kinds of evil all day long. Too often it succeeds. I am not a victim, even though the world has affected me.
I truly don’t know the answer exactly, but I do know that by saying people didn’t stand a chance to do the right thing gives them less credit, not more, and takes away a little of our humanity. Ultimately, as I said, if the big lie weren’t so prominent in the world, women would not find so much validation for their selfish choices.
Carla I am not trying to pick on a dead woman. There are some women who are pressured into having abortions. The pain and anguish she must have felt seeing her little boy, badly burned, thrown in a bucket after a saline abortion, must have been undescribable. Its a shame that even though shes in her seventies now she is still not allowed to talk about it. But I really have to disagree that all women who have abortions are victims. Remember that story in Florida about that young AA woman who was aborting her twin girls because she wanted boys? How was she being victimized? She just didnt want to have those precious little girls even though im sure there would have been dozens of couples who would have adopted them in a heartbeat. I know I am always quoting Mother Teresa, but she was correct in what she said. Many abortions are done for social reasons, in other words “its all about me.”
Oh yeah sex selection abortion. Noooo victim card to play there.
Not at all trying to be snarky …but did the pro death industry do away with blob of tissue ? Since when would one name an aborted blob of tissue Madison …my daughters name BTW .headspin.
Isn’t it likely Jennifer Morbelli did this because she believed she would spare her baby pain?
This was a wanted and planned pregnancy. She learned late in the pregnancy of severe defects. She may have believed she had to end this life or the baby would suffer pain.
Abortion is not a black and white issue. There are lots of people who think that abortion is wrong, because the fetus is a person but think it should be legal (like me) http://prochoicevoice.blogspot.ca/2013/02/why-i-think-unborn-are-persons.html there are people in the pro-choice movement who think abortion should be illegal after a certain point in time. There are people in the pro-life movement who think abortion should be legal in cases of rape, incest and/or risk to the mothers life. And as you point out, there are many people in the pro-choice movement who think that abortion should be legal in all cases, at any point, for any reason.
Sandra, I appreciate that there are many different positions one can take on abortion (some of which you’ve described above). But lack of consensus doesn’t mean lack of truth. One position might still be correct, or at least reasonable than all of the other ones. So it still can be binary in this regard.
By the way, I don’t think Marquis’s argument is that the unborn are persons. If I recall correctly, he doesn’t commit himself to a particular theory of human personhood (but nonetheless holds that it’s generally wrong to kill embryonic humans because it deprives them of a valuable future).
Nivi: Thank you for your thoughtfulness. I realize that a lack of consensus does not mean a lack of truth. I obviously think my position is correct, which is why I get offended when people use the same blanket term to describe me as they do to describe people who I strongly disagree with on almost every aspect of the abortion debate.
Well, I think the term persons is just being used to make a distinction between organisms of our species and organisms of our species who are worthy of moral consideration. Sinse he thinks the unborn are worthy of moral consideration his view fits within the definition of persons at least in the sense that people are using the word now. You’re right he didn’t identify the unborn as persons in those words.