Comedian: I was a pro-choice atheist until my children were born
I see a lot of women without kids, in their 40s, who are miserable and I see a lot of women after they have children saying, “what the f*** was I doing? Why was I doing fashion PR? I was doing seating plans for a fashion show telling what people sit in what chair. Now I’m shaping human life.”…
I see the housewife as a far superior vocation to mine, and to most….
I mean I make commercials, and funny videos, and T.V. shows or whatever, film projects that people will watch for ten minutes and go ‘heh’ and get on with their day. I essentially… make comic books. You flip through it and you’re done. My wife creates life from her vagina and then — that’s just the beginning — then she shapes this human life….
Who is changing the world more?…
[The birth of my children] made me religious. I was an atheist most of my life and now I am a God-fearing Catholic, because of the miracle of life. And I’m [now] pro-life.
~ Controversial editor, writer, comedian and “Godfather of Hipsterdom” Gavin McInnes, expressing his belief that childbirth and raising children are too often trivialized, as quoted by The Daily Caller, October 23
[HT: The Guiding Star Project; photo via Vimeo]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I see the housewife as a far superior vocation to mine, and to most….
Yeah, right. I just wish people like this were actually sincere in claiming that ‘womens roles are really, truly more valuable than mens, rather than it being a patriarchal ploy to keep women ‘in their place.’
then she shapes this human life….
So he’s a hands off dad is he.
I am reminded of Kahlil Gibran’s The Prophet. “And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, Speak to us of Children. And he said: Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, . . . You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth. . .”
There is nothing more profound than being called to participate in the creation of new life especially through a loving marital embrace.
HMM, so this guy is the Godfather of Hipsterdom? Well I hope he made sure to become pro-life before it was cool.
I loved being a mother and always wished that I would have one more. On the other hand, I don’t think that we should denigrate women (and men) who choose not to have children. Parenthood is NOT for everyone and there’s nothing wrong with saying you don’t want to have any. There are many men and women who are “childfree” and don’t regret their decision.
Just read the whole article the quote is from: I totally agree with this guy! His observations are spot on. I can totally relate to what he is saying.
So, how about some deliberate humor:
Why do hipsters avoid rivers?
Because they’re too mainstream.
Doh!
I have to say, I’m not quite sure why I capitalized the ms in hmm, I guess my typing is even worse than I thought.
I am glad to see a man who realizes and understands the importance women play in this world–they shape the future. So many women have been duped into the Margaret Sanger thought that the “most degrading place for a woman is in the marital bed”–and she had 5 children! Our place in this world should not be as sex objects but as nurturers (not the only role but the most important one). If we don’t think of ourselves as valuable and worthy creatures whom God created, we shouldn’t expect that others will treat us with respect either. Having children is a selfless act–when you don’t even consider the idea of marriage or children, you are forced into living only for yourSELF. If there is one thing marriage and children do, it is for force you into living for someone other than yourSELF. I really think of these activities as an opportunity to grow and develop into what God intended me to be–and it never ends!
If there is one thing marriage and children do, it is for force you into living for someone other than yourSELF.
Not all the time. My ex-husband was and still is very selfish, which is one reason why are no longeter together.
Regarding your October 29, 2013 at 2:00 am comment “reality:”
He is not hands off dad. This is what he said:
“My wife creates life from her vagina and then — that’s just the beginning — then she shapes this human life…”
I read this statement meaning that shaping the life as in utero and I think that others would as well. For a native English speaker your comprehension ability is beyond reproach Sir.
And yes – women’s roles are more valuable than those of men. Try to change places with a stay-at-home mother for one day Sherlock. You would most likely go straight to the ER just to recover. That leads me to ask you to thank your ex-wife for raising your son because that is exactly the value we assign to women…
9ek, that joke is a keeper!!! For a non-mainstream guy like me (or at minimum on the fence for the past 30 years) it is refreshingly honest…
“And yes – women’s roles are more valuable than those of men. Try to change places with a stay-at-home mother for one day Sherlock. You would most likely go straight to the ER just to recover.”
Being a stay-at-home parent isn’t a “women’s role”, it’s simply a role that women choose/are able to do more often than men. And it’s an important one. The idea of “roles” based on gender is just silly to me, except for obvious ones like childbirth that the opposite gender literally can’t do.
This guy says he is “pro-woman” but he’s pretty denigrating if he thinks he knows better than women who choose their own lives. And then he whines about how men are “beta males” now whatever that means. I don’t have much use for the gender essentialist types.
Gee Reality, your misogyny is showing again. So being a housewife is so base, so subservient, so unnecessary, so unimportant that it is “keeping women in their place”? Gee, thanks.
I LOVE being a housewife. I was the breadwinner for half of my marriage but for the last 4 and a half years I have been a stay at home mom. I clean the house, I do laundry (which I really enjoy for some odd reason) and I make dinner. I help my oldest with his homework, I bathe the kids, I put them to bed, I take them to the park, I read to them, I teach them. I LOVE spending the whole day with my baby and being there when my firstborn gets off the bus. I feel more fulfilled now than I ever did when I was working. My husband is a terrible cook and housekeeper but he is a great dad and very hands on. But he tells me constantly that our home would fall apart without me. That doesn’t make me feel used or “kept in my place”. That makes me feel loved and valued. I am the heart of my home and it is a role that I embrace and cherish.
@Reality
I see the housewife as a far superior vocation to mine, and to most….
Yeah, right. I just wish people like this were actually sincere in claiming that ‘womens roles are really, truly more valuable than mens, rather than it being a patriarchal ploy to keep women ‘in their place.’
This type of tripe sounds so very disingenuous to me… but the irony is that in making an accusation, I’ll be basically committing the same sin myself.
Why disingenuous? You make a judgemental and condescending assumption of the person’s thoughts/motives/true-heart based on no information whatsoever… None. No evidence but your own preconceived bias/cynicism that you brought in with you.
Allow me to translate, “This man has said something. He’s not sincere (I have no legitimate reason for saying so, but I chose to declare it so), and I truly wish someone would say it who was sincere (But since I dismiss it any time that it’s said with absolutely no evidence, I never will have my wish fulfilled)… Oh, the evil patriarchal misogynistic oppression.
Enjoy a world where you see no good when it presents because you, by choice, view it through filth-smeared glasses.
I think his ‘beta-males’ comment hits the nail on the head. Those guys you know who chronically pine for women who “just want to be friends”? Those are beta males. I go one step further: pheromones have a tremendous impact on our physiology and behavior. I propose that the birth control Pill has something to do with the rise of beta males and I think we need to look closely at young men who grew up in a household with a mother who’s body was giving off pheromones that were altered by her consumption of the Pill. Mark my words, there’s something to it.
“I think his ‘beta-males’ comment hits the nail on the head. Those guys you know who chronically pine for women who “just want to be friends”? Those are beta males.”
No, as someone who gets accused of being a “beta male” quite frequently, the men who whine “I’m such a nice guuuuuuyyyyy why won’t she sleep with me???” are just sexists in general, really. They tend to think that women (who they refer to as “girls” for some creepy reason, grown women are not “girls”) are machines that you put friendship coins into and sexual relationships fall out. God forbid she chooses a partner who isn’t you! These guys have a lot more in common with the dudes who want to force women out of the workplace than they do “egalitarians” or certain types of male feminists. Like I said, people like to accuse me of being “beta” and I’ve never in my life “pined” for someone.
“Beta male”, as far as I can tell from the accusations leveled at me, is used as a shaming term for men who don’t fulfill their assigned role of being aggressively masculine. If you don’t like to fight and find sports less interesting than spending time with your SO or kids, think that there’s nothing wrong with a stay-at-home dad or a woman in the military, and you call other men out for sexist behavior like cat-calling, apparently you’re a “beta male”.
Using a phrase as an insult, doesn’t make the phrase ONLY mean the insult. If you say, “you throw like a girl” it doesn’t make “girl” always an insult. I would not say that the beta males I know are all sexists. One or two, yes, but you’re making as sweeping a generalization, just as you think the comedian and I are making a generalization. All beta males are wolf’s in sheep’s clothing? Hardly. I can smell wolf, and they ain’t it.
My honey is an alpha male: doesn’t like football and calls out guys who treat girls badly. And he cooks and loves his mother. Still alpha.
“They tend to think that women (who they refer to as “girls” for some creepy reason, grown women are not “girls”) are machines that you put friendship coins into and sexual relationships fall out.”
Jack, I do LOVE the above sentence. I repeat that I don’t think it applies to all beta males, but yes, I do have one name that pops into mind at that sentence. He’s pushing 50 and still can’t find a “girl” who will date him. I call it the Marx Syndrome: He wouldn’t want to date any woman who would actually find him attractive (“I wouldn’t want to belong to any club that would have me as a member”). His favorite type: someone ELSE’s girlfriend. He loves to play the confidante and tries to replace a woman’s man. He fails. Constantly. I said, wanna know why? Because you start out trying to be her girlfriend, and hetero girls don’t want to date their girlfriend.
I don’t know, how about we all (including me) just stop labeling people for personality traits we don’t like? It’s frustrating. There’s no need to separate men into “beta” and “alpha” males because of the way they act. I don’t have a particularly aggressive personality and I consider stay at home parenting the most important and most fun job I’ve ever had. Whoop de do, I’m still just as much of a man as the dominant personality guy who works 60 hour weeks and comes home to a doting wife who took care of his home for him. Doesn’t make either man “beta” or “alpha”, just different personalities who are happier doing different things.
It’s like this article, separating women into bitter harridans if they chose not to have children, and fulfilled feminine women if they chose to stay at home parent. Just different personalities, some women aren’t cut out for parenting, especially not homemaking (my ex was HORRIBLE at it, I would work all day and have to come home and clean the filthy house, make dinner and take care of the kids, I barely slept while she was the one who stayed at home). There may be trends by gender, but I don’t agree with classifying anything as “women’s” or “men’s” roles, or insisting that people who don’t abide by gender classifications are “wrong” or miserable.
And lol yeah those weird entitled “nice guys” who seem to think that the only reason to be friends with a woman is to try to get into her pants drive me crazy. Especially because they call themselves “nice” and get all pissy when she doesn’t like him like that. No, sorry buddy, you’re not “nice” if you’re playing some game where you pretend to be someone’s friend and then get mad when they don’t want to have sex with you. You’re actually kinda a d-bag.
“You’re actually kinda a d-bag.”
Kinda?
Well I should have said that they are *acting* like d-bags rather than they *are* d-bags. I think a lot of them are just bad at social interaction and dating, nervous about asking someone out, and they end up bitter about it. Yes, she’s dating the guy who actually bothered to ask her out on a date, rather than you who listens to her bad date stories and gives her a shoulder to cry on rather than making your interest known, like at all.
Some women do the same, at least to me, but I find it more understandable since women are told nearly constantly to never ask guys out. And then they get mad at you for not realizing they are interested in dating you, when they never gave you any indication that your dense self understood. They tell everyone but you! Whoops.
Yes Jack, I suppose you’re right. It would be unfair to label someone based on one behavior. Still, they’re certainly acting like more than kind of a d-bag.
Can we discuss the omega male just for kicks.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=omega%20male
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/buzzword/entries/omega-male
Some dudes fit this profile and may even have better outcomes in life than alpha/beta/gamma/delta combined.
Yes Jack being a stay-at-home-dad is possible but who would breastfeed the baby? Giving a bottle is not the same…
Kudos to you Sydney M!!!! A mother’s work is never done….
Uh, not all women breast feed their children or are capable of it. Doesn’t mean they are less suited to stay home with their kids if that’s what they are good at. Stay at home and single dads do jut as much work as the mothers, too, though we seem to get just as little or less credit.
And kids don’t stay babies forever, they won’t require breast feeding for too long.
Jack – I was drawing you in with that comment. I am sorry you have not noticed.
All this “beta” and “alpha” male talk – what are we, wolves?
Last I checked, humans came in wide variety of personality types.
Indeed “thomas r.”, he said:
“My wife creates life from her vagina and then — that’s just the beginning — then she shapes this human life…”
Let’s break it down shall we:
“My wife creates life from her vagina and then — that’s just the beginning —” – ok, so she’s created life from her vagina. That would mean the new life has exited her body.
“then she shapes this human life…” – so after she has created the new life from her vagina she then shapes ‘this human life.’ What about him? Doesn’t he help shape ‘this human life’?
For a native English speaker your comprehension ability is beyond reproach Sir. – why thank you sir.
And yes – women’s roles are more valuable than those of men. Try to change places with a stay-at-home mother for one day Sherlock. – I played the mr. mom role for two years Watson. Even when I returned to work I still did 50% of the cooking – we mostly did it together – and 90% of the washing.
You would most likely go straight to the ER just to recover. – nope.
That leads me to ask you to thank your ex-wife for raising your son because that is exactly the value we assign to women… – so you also think that raising the kids is womens work do you? That’s the ‘value’ you ‘assign’ to women? My ex-wife and I raised our son together. The fact that I worked outside the home and she didn’t didn’t cause me to not participate.
Gee Reality, your misogyny is showing again. – how droll, that’s classic.
So being a housewife is so base, so subservient, so unnecessary, so unimportant that it is “keeping women in their place”? Gee, thanks. – not at all, I’ve done it, I do it. My point is that men like the clown above espouse principles of ‘womens work’ being so important and valuable when they don’t really believe such at all. I have ‘interacted’ with men who use all sorts of excuses to convince women not to aspire to ‘mens roles.’ I know it is important and valuable work, men like Gavin don’t.
Liberty, people want so badly to believe that our big, honking intellects have propelled us above the animal kingdom. Not so. Placental mammals we are and will remain for thousands of years. If you think alpha and beta are just social constructs, try telling you neighbor’s dog to shut up. You’ll find out real quick which one the dog thinks you are, haha!
But, wow, reality is a psychic, he can tell what hipster comedians really think! Say, reality, why don’t you use your powers to tell us when Obamadon’tcare will be up and running, haha!
No psychic ability require 9ek. Nor has it anything to do with him supposedly being a ‘hipster comedian’. It’s simply that I have come across so many men such as claimed ‘god-fearing born-agains’ who do not really believe that ‘womens work’ is as valuable as mens but state that it is so that they can convince women to stick to ‘womens work’.
Sorry, the term “obamadon’tcare” isn’t something I’m familiar with. Are you saying obama is secretly a republican?
Maybe if I was psychic :-)
Thomas, I obviously have issues understanding you. I’m not sure what it is but I don’t seem to get half your comments.
“Thomas, I obviously have issues understanding you. I’m not sure what it is but I don’t seem to get half your comments.”
Well, Thomas has said that English isn’t his first language, so that might be part of it.
Where I come from Russian was our second language (just like Spanish is here). I am still fairly proficient in it so perhaps I should write my comments in Cyrillic? Just kidding…
Just to clarify Jack – you and I are on the same page about stay-at-home-dads. Our society demands dual role-taking, yes. I just give more credit to the women and always will (as oppose to our society anyway). I think this has something to do with the way I was raised.
“My wife creates life from her vagina and then — that’s just the beginning —” – ok, so she’s created life from her vagina. That would mean the new life has exited her body.
No it doesn’t Sherlock “reality” Sir. She contributed the egg to create this life, after which it moved to the uterus for shaping. Does this make sense to you now..
All this talk about how great of a contributor you were in your home Sir does not withstand the test of genuineness when one considers your staunch view that preborn human life means nothing..
And FYI – don’t just refer to me as ‘Watson.’ The correct phrase is ‘My Dear Watson.’ Got it!
I’m sure his concern for women’s happiness is totally genuine and doesn’t stem from a deeply entrenched fear about ladies taking away all the toys from upper middle class white men.
“It’s like this article, separating women into bitter harridans if they chose not to have children, and fulfilled feminine women if they chose to stay at home parent.”
Yeah, exactly. Listen, my mom was a SAHM and I would love to be one myself someday. But it is pretty offensive to pick, like, the most vapid, stupid, obnoxious romantic-comedy stereotypical dumb-city-girl profession – Fashion PR!!! – and talk about telling people where to sit, and act like women are so dumb that they’re choosing that over kids. It’s like when people talk about having kids as being entirely about dirty diapers. A lot of women (and men) I know work in jobs that benefit society in some way or that they find personally interesting or fulfilling in some way. I mean, hello, even when you get into stereotypically female-dominated professions, you find some really valuable jobs – nurses? teachers? It’s pretty gross to act like working women are just clicking around in absurd heels getting hysterical over things that don’t matter at all.
I build things for a living. I build custom scenery for mostly live theater. Does it save lives? No. But it makes a lot of people – including families with kids – happy, and I find it quite intellectually stimulating and emotionally rewarding.
I also find parenting rewarding. Last night I wrapped juice boxes in waterproof white tape and glued googly eyes on them, to make “mummy juice boxes” as a Halloween treat. The thought of those two little boys opening their lunch boxes and smiling for a moment when they saw their juice boxes was as rewarding as that moment where I see hundreds or thousands of people be moved to some emotion when something I’ve built works and looks the way it’s supposed to.
Is parenting all mummy juice boxes and sweet treats? No. A lot of it is hard. But my job isn’t all opening nights and accolades, either; a lot of it is frustration and tears. Anyone who thinks that I am somehow frivolous for caring about the work I do for pay is a jerk. My job isn’t my identity but that doesn’t mean that I don’t care about it, and just because I have a job that I care about in life besides the job I’ve taken on helping raise these kids, that doesn’t mean I am frivolous or vapid or wasting my time and my purpose in life.
And I don’t buy that this guy values carework as much as making commercials. As a total narcissist, why wouldn’t he already be doing the job he claims is the most important?
What Alexandra said!
And can we please talk about the classism inherent in this guy’s claims? In some families, the person who might have been the homemaker HAS to work — and not to afford another car or Disney vacation.
I get what you are saying Alexandra. Blue Velvet speaks foreign to me.
“Just to clarify Jack – you and I are on the same page about stay-at-home-dads. Our society demands dual role-taking, yes. I just give more credit to the women and always will (as oppose to our society anyway). I think this has something to do with the way I was raised. ”
Ah, so you’re just a sexist. Putting women on a pedestal is just another form of sexism, towards women AND men. I prefer treating people as people and giving them credit for what they actually do, regardless of what their chromosomes are.
Your assessment of me could not be farther from the truth Jack. I also treat people as people but give more credit to women because our society (USA) treats them as second class citizens in every aspect of life.. Look around and you will agree..
Nope, I don’t buy it. Women get totally screwed in some ways and have privileges in others. Out of us street kids the people who tried to “help” almost exclusively focused on the girls, because they were “victims” and the boys were “criminals”, so only the girls needed help apparently. OMG so second class, to actually have someone care about you. I have more examples but these conversations never go anywhere.
I did not mean at that level Jack. I understand and agree with you there. I was referring to the societal level.
Like I said these conversations never go anywhere.
It must be my male brain again Jack. Oh well…
I hate that “male brain” stuff!
Unfortunately as I said before Jack, everything we do is dictated by the brain for both genders to be fair. Accept it and move on, LOL…
No it doesn’t Sherlock “reality” Sir. She contributed the egg to create this life, after which it moved to the uterus for shaping. Does this make sense to you now.. – she may well have contributed the egg, and her uterus may well be where the fetus gestated. But the direct quote from this character was “My wife creates life from her vagina and then — that’s just the beginning — then she shapes this human life…” – the operative word being from, not ‘via’ or ‘through’. That would be the birth thing. Then, following this, she shapes ‘this human life’. Does this make sense to you now “thomas r.”?
All this talk about how great of a contributor you were in your home Sir does not withstand the test of genuineness when one considers your staunch view that preborn human life means nothing.. – aw really? How about you explain why being pro-choice doesn’t mean one is genuine in one’s efforts to contribute to and participate in the making and running of a home containing wanted, chosen children? I’ve never faked washing dishes or even hanging the washing.
And FYI – don’t just refer to me as ‘Watson.’ The correct phrase is ‘My Dear Watson.’ Got it! – no. Most of the time it’s just ‘watson’. ‘My dear watson’ is only occasional.
Well “reality” I have a pro-life bias thus I propose that he just slipped but the spirit of his statement is undeniable…
All children are wanted and are not chosen but are a gift that determines our humanity.
I will never understand the superficial/self-serving and shallow rationalization of pro-aborts.
No “thomas r.”, he was quite clear. His wife created new life from her vagina and then went on to shape it. Her ‘job’, not his.
All children are wanted and are not chosen… – well that’s quite obviously not the case.
I will never understand… – I’ve noticed ;-)
Makes me wonder how come you only cited the first part of my paragraph in bold. Could it be that you desired to convolute as always. Must be a habit with you “reality.”
It was a sentence “thomas r.”, not a paragraph.
The point I was addressing was the absolute inaccuracy of the first part. The second part was just nonsensical. How you can construe that as convoluting only you can answer.