Former Ms. mag editor and Dem: “Sarah’s a brainiac”
By Elaine Lafferty in The Daily Beast, a great read from an authentic feminist on her experience with the VP wannabe, October 27:

It’s difficult not to froth when one reads, as I did again and again this week, doubts about Sarah Palin’s “intelligence,” coming especially from women such as PBS’s Bonnie Erbe, who, as near as I recall, has not herself heretofore been burdened with the Susan Sontag of Journalism moniker.
As Fred Barnes – God help me, I’m agreeing with Fred Barnes – suggests in the Weekly Standard, these high toned and authoritative dismissals come from people who have never met or spoken with Sarah Palin. Those who know her, love her or hate her, offer no such criticism. They know what I know, and I learned it from spending just a little time traveling on the cramped campaign plane this week: Sarah Palin is very smart.
I’m a Democrat, but I’ve worked as a consultant with the McCain campaign since shortly after Palin’s nomination. Last week, there was the thought that as a former editor-in-chief of Ms. magazine as well as a feminist activist in my pre-journalism days, I might be helpful in contributing to a speech that Palin had long wanted to give on women’s rights.
What is often called her “confidence” is actually a rarity in national politics: I saw a woman who knows exactly who she is.
Now by “smart,” I don’t refer to a person who is wily or calculating or nimble in the way of certain talented athletes who we admire but suspect don’t really have serious brains in their skulls. I mean, instead, a mind that is thoughtful, curious, with a discernable pattern of associative thinking and insight. Palin asks questions, and probes linkages and logic that bring to mind a quirky law professor I once had. Palin is more than a “quick study”; I’d heard rumors around the campaign of her photographic memory and, frankly, I watched it in action. She sees. She processes. She questions, and only then, she acts. What is often called her “confidence” is actually a rarity in national politics: I saw a woman who knows exactly who she is.
For all those old enough to remember Senator Sam Ervin, the brilliant strict constitutional constructionist and chairman of the Senate Watergate Committee whose patois included “I’m just a country lawyer”… Yup, Palin is that smart.
So no simple task then, this speech on women’s rights. For the sin of being a Christian personally opposed to abortion, Palin is being pilloried by the inside-the-Beltway Democrat feminist establishment. (Yes, she is anti-abortion. And yes, instead of buying organic New Zealand lamb at Whole Foods, she joins other Alaskans in hunting for food. That’s it. She is not a right-wing nut, and all the rest of the Internet drivel – the book banning at the Library, the rape kits decision – is nonsense. I digress.)
Palin’s role in this campaign was to energize “the Republican base,” which she has inarguably done. She also was expected to reach out to Hillary Clinton “moderates.” (Right. Only a woman would get both those jobs in either party.) Look, I am obviously personally pro-choice, and I disagree with McCain and Palin on that and a few other issues. But like many other Democrats, including Lynn Rothschild, I’m tired of the Democratic Party taking women for granted. I also happen to believe Sarah Palin supports women’s rights, deeply and passionately.
Many of those – not all – who decried the sexist media treatment of Hillary Clinton have been silent as Palin has been skewered in the old ways that female public figures are skewered, as well as a host of sexualized new ways as well. Some feminists have weighed in; “Even the reportedly clear glasses she wears to play down her beauty queen credential and enhance her gravitas can’t make up for experience,” writes my heroine Suzanne Braun Levine, former editor of Ms. Oppose her on policy? Fine. But how sad for feminist leaders to sink this low, especially when Palin has worn glasses since she was 10 years old.
Last month a prominent feminist blogger, echoing that sensibility, declared that the media was wrongly buying into the false idea that Palin was a feminist. Why? Well, just because she said she was a feminist, because she supported women’s rights and opportunities, equal pay, Title IV – that was just “empty rhetoric,” they said. At least the blogger didn’t go as far as NOW’s Kim Gandy and declare that Palin was not a woman. Bottom line: you are not a feminist until we say you are. And there you have the formula for diminishing what was once a great and important mass social change movement to an exclusionary club that rejects women who sincerely want to join and, God forbid, grow to lead.
But here is the good news: women, citizens of America’s high and low culture, the Economist and People magazine readers, will get it. They got it with Hillary even when feminist leaders were not supporting her or doing so half-heartedly. Yes, Palin is a harder sell, she looks and sounds different, and one can rightfully oppose her based on abortion policies. If you only vote on how a person personally feels about abortion, you will never want her to darken your door. If you care about anything else, she will continue to intrigue you. As Time’s Nancy Gibbs noted a few weeks ago, quoting bioethicist Tom Murray, “Sympathy and subtlety are seasonings rarely applied to political red meat.” Will Palin’s time come next week? I don’t know. But her time will come.



Yes it is clear what people stand for. It is convenient to dump anger on targets that expose shortcomings in wha you sand for. Alaska magazine had a very strong praise in an article for their governor in he winer. Now the same author bashes the exact same governor because he gets praise from the lesser 48 for doing so. Gov Palin’s stance on an abortion is one example.
It exposes the massive cultural pattern of getting undressed for the wrong reasons and dealing with it later in an abortion. When will they learn STD’s can’t be aborted?
From their view, I see them mad and hostile toward ladies that delay gratification for marriage and do not pay the price.
I can’t for the life of me figure out why people insist that Sarah Palin isn’t smart. She is. She’s very smart, however, I think that she could be a little more clear in when she describes her stances on things, and she really screwed up during the Katie Couric interview. But to call her unintelligent is an unfair criticism. Unintelligent, the woman is not.
And, even though Sarah Palin might be against many feminist beliefs, she’s a feminist because of her choices to be a working mom and be running for VP. Feminism is about choice.
I think if there is one thing that Sarah Palin has done is that she has exposed these “feminists” for what they are.
Absolutely nothing is off limits to these chicks: she’s not a woman because she doesn’t support the feminist view of “woman’s world”. She’s taken hits about her parenting, her looks, her mannerisms, her intelligence, her husband, her femininity, her clothing and even her dear Trig.
These women have revealed themselves for what they truly are – women who have completely lost themselves and who have no concept of the feminine ideal whatsoever.
What is more disconcerting is that so many women today agree with these nasty harridans. Is this what we women have become? Is the only acceptable view of womanhood today one that reeks of a disgust of children and a fear of true service to our husbands, families and society?
Patricia, Amen to your post.
If you ever get the chance, go see sarah in person! she is amazing! i saw her in green ohio last week with john mccain and i was blown away! it is totally different to see her in person than on t.v.!
Womyn,
“I can’t for the life of me figure out why people insist that Sarah Palin isn’t smart. She is. She’s very smart, however, I think that she could be a little more clear in when she describes her stances on things, and she really screwed up during the Katie Couric interview. But to call her unintelligent is an unfair criticism. Unintelligent, the woman is not.”
That perception might have something to do with how she went to five undergraduate institutions before finally managing to graduate from one. As you correctly noted, it probably also stems from her performance in interviews. In the few that I have seen, she comes across as uninformed and as though she has only a few talking points which she is capable of discussing without falling on her face.
I just read Mark Levin’s comments on the side board of this blog.
Maybe it’s about time the American people started to do something about the media. Maybe there has to be a backlash against the media by the grass roots folks.
The media’s job is to report the facts and yes, to have opinions too in something called editorials which the public – all the public regardless of their views, can participate in. It is NOT their job to run the country. They have a inflated sense of self-importance and an utter lack of integrity which, is quite frankly, sickening.
you tell ’em Patricia!
Womyn,
“I can’t for the life of me figure out why people insist that Sarah Palin isn’t smart. She is. She’s very smart, however, I think that she could be a little more clear in when she describes her stances on things, and she really screwed up during the Katie Couric interview. But to call her unintelligent is an unfair criticism. Unintelligent, the woman is not.”
That perception might have something to do with how she went to five undergraduate institutions before finally managing to graduate from one. As you correctly noted, it probably also stems from her performance in interviews. In the few that I have seen, she comes across as uninformed and as though she has only a few talking points which she is capable of discussing without falling on her face.
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gee, maybe going to five undergraduate institutions had something to do with the ability to pay for college and/or life situations? I have gone to six “undergraduate institutions” in order to finish up my RN-to-BSN pathway. I went to whatever community college had the class I needed at a time that I could take it (had to work around my work schedule). Then I attended nursing school and then finished up at a university. There is no shame in that… it is called being pragmatic and doing whatever it takes to get the job done.
I also note you said the “few” that you have seen… in other words, you’ve taken a cursory glance and dismissed her out of hand. Now that takes supreme intelligence…. um, yeah, no, no it really doesn’t.
Elisabeth
RN, mom of six amazing blessings
Death of the New York Times. They are getting near insolvency and a recent investment has not been enough. They are now considered slow. The minimum of `1 day delay on news is soo last century.
Now they decide what to write based on how it is accepted by the previous days media results. Drudge had 2,500 comments on Obama’s socialist radio interview and the times had till deadline to determine how of it should be presented.
Elisabeth: see this is the sort of thing though that these mean-spirited women just don’t get. I’m sure their attitude is one of shock that you were “stupid” enough to have 6 children.And why would you want to ruin your body doing this anyway? I know the attitude well because my friend who has 9, gets it all. the. time.!!
I remember running into a librarian at a local university who looked down her nose at me because I had been a stay-at-home mom for 17 years having babies and homeschooling. She told me I was priviledged and that not all women want to sit around and “do nothing”! Ha! Yeah, right! I was eating bonbons and watching soap operas all the time, as I seem to remember. Duh!
Elisabeth,
Yes, because I have so much time to religiously watch each and every debate or other opportunity for any of candidates to open their mouths and proclaim the glory that will be ours once they enact their plans for our country.
Frankly, political campaigns don’t interest me. All politicians lie and avoid the issues–it’s what one does in our political system. I also already knew who I was going to vote for (and have actually already voted) so the point is moot.
And why is it that you’d love endless chances for your candidate but don’t bother to give them to anyone else?
I always find it amusing when someone like Enigma is called on her baloney, then changes the subject with loaded questions and assumptions.
Frankly, political campaigns don’t interest me. All politicians lie and avoid the issues–it’s what one does in our political system. I also already knew who I was going to vote for (and have actually already voted) so the point is moot.
And how do you determine who you will vote for? If their ideology suits you? So then it isn’t a matter of capability? And if all politicians lie, why vote? If you’re voting Obama, why? Since he is determined to avoid the “issue” of abortion. Or maybe abortion isn’t an “issue” for you?
Here’s a list of Palin’s undergraduate odysessy.
1. She first enetered the University of Palin Hawaii at Hilo as a freshamn. She droped out after a few weeks, citing the constant rain.
2. She then enrolled as a Business Adm. major at Hawaii Pacific University, a private college in Honolulu. She leaves after a semester.
3. Her next stop is North Idaho College, a Coeur d’Alene community college. She completes two semesters as a General Studies Major.
4. She then transfers to the University of Idaho as a sophomore, in the Journalism program
5. Palin transfers to to Matanuska-Susitna College in Alaska and completes one semesters.
6. Palin heads back to the University of Idaho for three more semesters and graduates with a degree in Journalism.
To me, that doesn’t sound like someone who has financial issues.
Bethany,
” always find it amusing when someone like Enigma is called on her baloney, then changes the subject with loaded questions and assumptions.”
No more loaded then any I am given. I show respect only when I am given it.
So tell me, did you honsetly sit down and calmly consider all of Obama’s policies before deciding that you were scared to death of him?
I could also level the exact same charge against you, except I have a feeling that it would stick somewhat better.
Did you give him chance after chance to “reform” and snag your vote or did you simply write him off?
I, also, think Sarah Palin is very smart– I have no doubt.. Do I think she is ready to be president “No”– I was quite appalled by her interviews and her speaches— and her inablility to articulate the agendas for the campaign..(Mcain as well).
Honestly– I have been surprised to see that when Mcain and Palin are together, they seem quite uncomfortable… I feel sorry for her, I feel that she was chosen as the “podium model” for the Mcain Campaign to sway we, mothers and family values supporters… When really, I don’t trust Mcain at ALL!
After lots of debate– and research and of course…reading this blog and seeing what folks are really supporting and saying.. I have to say, I was put off by it all…
So my vote— it is leaning to left this time– The first time in my 30 yrs (I am a 61 yr old widow—military with a down syndrome son) that I have found myself voting for a democrat… If you all read between the fine lines— and if you actually had to struggle… and live a life of adversity.. you would maybe understand.
Best wishes to all of you..and maybe next election you will learn a more broad view of the world before you blog.
Patricia,
“And how do you determine who you will vote for? If their ideology suits you? So then it isn’t a matter of capability? And if all politicians lie, why vote? If you’re voting Obama, why? Since he is determined to avoid the “issue” of abortion. Or maybe abortion isn’t an “issue” for you?”
To be honest, it really doesn’t matter who I vote for since neither of the states I could register in are considered battlegrounds.
I do not follow campaigns because of “political promises.” Canidates make pie-in-the-sky promises of policy reform, and them they get into office and nothing changes.
Why vote? Because of my latest research paper.
I’m not going to tell you who I voted for. Perhaps you can figure it out, perhaps not.
Abortion is not an important issue for me.
sorry, your latest research paper?
Patricia,
At the end of it I had this bright idea to write how I felt that citizens in a democracy had a duty to participate in government and defend democratic ideals.
Actually, that was my research proposal, not paper–sorry.
And now, before anyone accuses me of running away, I have class.
Enigma @ 9:45,
What is your source, please?
We’re in upside down world today I guess. Ms. editor praises Palin, while McCain aids attack her:
McCain-Palin Rift Grows
The divisions in the McCain-Palin campaign continue to widen with one senior McCain aide telling Mike Allen that Gov. Sarah Palin is “a whack job.”
Meanwhile, George Stephanopoulos said this about the “demoralized” McCain campaign on ABC News this morning: “Palin is going to be the most vivid chapter of the McCain campaign’s post-mortem… Those loyal to McCain believe they have been unfairly blamed for over-handling Palin. They say they did the best they could with what they got.”
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/10/28/mccain-palin_rift_grows.html
Hal @ 9:56,
They are wrong, and maybe a bit jealous that she’s as good as she is, and afraid of how great she will become.
As Lafferty wrote:
“If you only vote on how a person personally feels about abortion, you will never want her to darken your door. If you care about anything else, she will continue to intrigue you.”
It should be pointed out that for the most part, the people attacking Palin for things like her parenting, her looks, her mannerisms, and her clothing aren’t feminists. I read a lot of feminist sources, and they have been as outraged by these irrelevant and sexist attacks as you all.
The people attacking Palin for her intelligence (or perceived lack of) and her experience have to a large degree been male Republicans, although there are some female Republicans in that group as well, like Kathleen Parker and Peggy Noonan.
Feminists, for the most part, have restricted themselves to criticizing her positions on her town making women pay for rape kits, on her lack of support for public aid to teen moms, on her support for abstinence only education, on her abuse of power, and on yes, her anti-choice positions.
I know that you all like to blame “the feminists” for all of this, but if you take a hard look at who is making the nastiest and most irrelevant criticisms of Palin, it sure as heck isn’t the feminists.
Enigma at 838am
‘That perception might have something to do with how she went to five undergraduate institutions before finally managing to graduate from one.’
Duh, I’m sure many people have done this. I went to 3 ‘undergraduate’ institutions (I didn’t know they had overgraduate ones) before I graduated with my BA. That’s just the way it’s done. Sometimes money runs short and you have to quit for a while. Sometimes you have to take certain classes from other places. Sometimes you move. I know someone who only went to one, but dropped every class they scored below an ‘A’ in. They were still attending and had been for 5 years when I graduated.
Enjoy your strange views.
A democrat who suddenly starts working as a consultant for the republicans is no longer a democrat. While one can partner on legislation. If this were possible then it would also be possible to be a Catholic Atheist.
It is also humorous to hear quick defenses of Hillary and Palin from conservatives who heretofore were bashing Clinton by calling her a bitch (such as Rush Limbaugh has done numerous times). It just lacks any credibility and sense of political history.
I support women in politics, but what people are asking for with Palin is the very thing that conservatives decry about affirmative action – any one who is hired or elected, regardless of gender or race or whatever must be qualified. One should not merely support hillary or palin because they are female. Rather one should support women who are actually qualified. On this test alone, Palin flunks the test.
Read the third paragraph. Ms. Lafferty is paid by the McCain campaign to give Palin a crash course on how to portray herself as a proponent of “women’s rights”, as “smart” and a “feminist”. Surprise, surprise, Lafferty concludes Palin is really smart- ka-ching!
The article establishes only that Lafferty is a sell-out. I think I will rely on the opinions of those who are not paid to tout a candidate.
Duh, I’m sure many people have done this. I went to 3 ‘undergraduate’ institutions (I didn’t know they had overgraduate ones) before I graduated with my BA.
You’ve seriously never heard the terms “undergraduate” and “graduate” school? Why doncha check out the website of any educational institution that offers masters and doctorate level degrees as well as bachelors degrees…you’ll see it listed there. Btw, “undergradute” = associates or bachelors level education, and “graduate” = masters and doctoral level education.
That’s just the way it’s done.
Not really. The vast majority of people graduate from the institution that they begin at. Transferring is a pain.
Sometimes money runs short and you have to quit for a while.
That is true for some people. Palin was going to private colleges in places like Hawaii. I’m guessing money wasn’t the problem.
Sometimes you have to take certain classes from other places.
That’s true for some people. Palin graduated (eventually) with a degree in journalism. It’s a pretty standard degree.
Sometimes you move.
Why is this relevant to Palin? She didn’t move.
I know someone who only went to one, but dropped every class they scored below an ‘A’ in. They were still attending and had been for 5 years when I graduated.
Why is this relevant to Palin?
Enjoy your strange views.
Yes, looking at things critically certainly appears to be strange….to you.
John McCain, to his credit, demanded Ted Stevens, Palin’s political mentor, resign after his 7 felony convictions. Palin issued an ambiguous statement which did not make it clear whether she continues to support Stevens or not. So much for “rooting out corruption”.
Could it be because some of the same contractors who remodelled Steven’s cabin, provided materials and labor for the Palin house?
While not the most flattering article, this one seems to give a pretty straight-forward depiction of Sarah’s college days. I find her “sense of adventure” appealing. I bet if you surveyed high school seniors, a large percentage would say they’d like to go to school in Hawaii if they had the choice.
Sarah’s just like the rest of us and that’s why we like her so much. :-)
. . . . . . . . . . .
just to be fair.. @ 10:12,
I agree with you that older males are also vocal in their doubt about Palin’s readiness. There may be some “old boy network” sexism at work – they probably feel threatened as much as 1970’s feminists do.
Anyone here think Joe Biden is ‘smart’?
lwestin @ 11:13 AM,
Anyone here think Joe Biden is ‘smart’?
Is that “smart with five letters, or six?
Anyone here think Joe Biden is ‘smart’?
Posted by: lwestin at October 28, 2008 11:13 AM
[raises hand]
Yes, there is no doubt Biden is smart.
Bobby,
As you were, I should have been more gracious. I actually have no clue if Biden is smart or isn’t. Don’t know much about him except from this election. (Politics is not my favorite subject.)
Biden is smart. Biden also, however, reminds me of the absent-minded professor. He’s definitely gaffe-prone, but unlike Palin, he can afford to be, because he has many years of government service and constituent support behind him.
@Enigma: My mom went to a couple of Unis for her undergrad, and then another for her Master’s. I know a lot of people who transfer a lot because they’re not happy with the place that they’re going to. I think it’s very silly that she kept switching schools (wouldn’t that get exhausting?) However, things happen. Family members get sick. i heard that she switched from Idaho back to Alaska because her mom was sick and wanted to be near her. I had to quit in the middle of a semester because I got cancer. I went back and finished my degree.
She sucked at the Katie Couric interview, but I think it’s because she was ill-prepared. Extremely ill-prepared. It was uncomfortable to watch (and I’m not in support of her).
But then again, it’s totally unacceptable to be ill-prepared. Her not answering questions is unacceptable. She most definitely is NOT ready to be President, as many have described it, as a “heartbeat away.” I shudder to think of her in the Oval Office.
Switching schools, however, does not indicate that you’re stupid, it indicates that you’re indecisive.
Well Janet, that actually isn’t saying too much, just to say he’s smart. Peter Singer is brilliant. In fact, Satan is smarter than Einstein and Aquinas combined. I’ve mentioned this before, but intelligence is of the natural order, not the supernatural order. Hence, it is infinitely inferior to any of the infused supernatural graces that say, we receive at baptism (faith, hope, charity) or confirmation (girts of the Holy Spirit). So all this emphasis we place on smarts and knowledge is really ill-placed. Knowledge of something draws that thing to us, while charity draws us to that thing. This is why we should know things of the lower order (like material goods) and love things of the higher order (like God). Not that knowledge of God is bad, but love of God far exceeds knowledge of God.
Wow, another conservative paper goes to Obama. Ouch.
We have watched Obama run an impressive campaign, responsive to the unfolding economic crisis, while McCain’s offers little more than that he is not George Bush.
Obama has attracted some of the country’s brightest minds, including investor Warren Buffett, Google CEO Eric Schmidt, former Secretary of State Colin Powell, and Paul Volcker, who was reappointed as chairman of the Federal Reserve by Ronald Reagan. McCain populated his campaign with Washington lobbyists.
McCain then raised questions about his judgment in his selection of an unqualified running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, who, while energizing the “base,” has been a flop with most voters outside of what she recklessly calls the “pro-American” parts of our country.
http://www.pnj.com/article/20081026/OPINION/810260319/1018/NEWS07
In the latest poll, Amendment 48, the “personhood amendment” is trailing by 41 points, 68% against 27% for, so it is shaping up to be the most overwhelming defeat of a proposed constitutional amendment in Colorado history.
22% of those polled are “definitely yes” voters- undoubtedly the same 22% that approve of Bush.
Bobby @ 12:13,
Knowledge of something draws that thing to us, while charity draws us to that thing.
Verrry interesting.
Way off topic, but your point is a good argument for earlier rather than later Confirmation for children, which has always been a pet peeve of mine. IMO, children need the graces that the Sacrament of Confirmation confers at the junior high level and shouldn’t have to wait until high school as some parishes do. Mine recently switched to eighth grade Confirmation. I’m so happy!
Posted by: Enigma at October 28, 2008 9:45 AM
No time to watch “each and every debate…” yadda, yadda, but plenty of time to spend on this board and post nonsense. Yes, your priorities are set up perfectly.
“your point is a good argument for earlier rather than later Confirmation for children”
See Janet, this is what I’m talking about. Because I was confirmed when I was older (19 years old), I tend to be a big proponent of later confirmation. I write about how confirmation confers the gifts of the Holy Spirit, yet I still can’t put two and two together and see that that is probably a very good reason for earlier confirmation until you pointed it out to me just now. This is why knowledge doesn’t do much good if you don’t have wisdom. I’m glad I have you and others here to help me out :)God love you.
sixtyoneandliving @ 9:48 AM
….Best wishes to all of you..and maybe next election you will learn a more broad view of the world before you blog.
Thanks for expressing your views. I think you might call many of us sufficiently “worldly”, if you got to know us beyond this blog. I get the impression that you consider us “one issue voters”. Some of us are.
Recently I heard a priest on relevant Radio give a simplistic, but effective, explanation of why some people vote on one issue alone. He described his usual breakfast. “My usual breakfast is bran cereal. I like to add raisins to the cereal and then some milk. If I find that the milk is sour after pouring it on the cereal, I throw out the whole bowl of cereal. The cereal, raisins, everything. It’s no good.” The “sour milk” is abortion. His stance on abortion, the disregard for the dignity of the most innocent human life, spoils anything “good” that he might do.
Bobby,
You opened my eyes today too. Thank you and God bless!
If you like Palin, don’t trust the liberal mainstream media, and enjoyed today’s quote, you’ll love this recent column by Dennis Prager;
check it out at http://townhall.com/columnists/DennisPrager/2008/10/07/gotcha_questions_for_katie_couric_and_her_colleagues
;-D
I love Dennis Prager! Oh, and Sarah Palin!
Thanks!
Posted by: Janet at October 28, 2008 1:54 PM
I love Relevant Radio! Colleen Kelly Mast is coming to give a talk next week to my daughter’s Confirmation class. I can’t wait to see her.
Bobby, the trend in my diocese now is towards earlier confirmation (as in 11 or 12). Of course in the Eastern Rite church baptism and confirmation happen together. Usually.
The feeling as my parish priest explained it is to get the kids before they get into their teens and loose interest totally in their faith. There are also other issues as well which I won’t get into on the BB’s.
BBs?
I’ve been to 4 undergraduate institutions and changed my major twice. I think I’m pretty smart. My first transfer came because I just effing hated my first school. The other 2 were a result of life circumstances and shifting in priorities. Some colleges don’t fit some people, and they shift around til they find something that fits. I would say THAT’S pretty smart.
3 for me Elizabeth!! :) We are very smart!!!
Biden is smart. Biden also, however, reminds me of the absent-minded professor. He’s definitely gaffe-prone, but unlike Palin, he can afford to be, because he has many years of government service and constituent support behind him.
Posted by: Erin at October 28, 2008 12:02 PM
Erin,
Biden can not afford to be gaffe-prone. He is a heartbeat away from being VP. What if he gaffes it up at a world conference, gaffes it up when negotiating with countries who support terrorists are negotiating with us for assistance to help our side.
This man is a ticking time bomb and you just wait until he explodes at the worst moment.
I almost wonder if he has early onset demenita.
I also wonder more about his incompetence after his latest gaffe when he recently stated now instead of people who make less than 250k not getting a tax hike, Biden mentioned that if you made less than 150k you won’t get a tax hike. (Obama has also stated 200k) Which is the straight story?
Too many gaffes and lies going around.
Also, for anyone who thinks Sarah came across as incompetent in Katie or Charlies interview, just think that she interviewed for more than 2 hours with each and they selected the worst moments to put in front of the nation. So typical of the MSM
Joe Biden is a punk blowhard who calls himself a Catholic…phoney.
He smeared Robert Bork and Clarence Thomas bigtime during their SJC appointment hearings.
Biden had a big step in preventing Roe from being overturned in 92 by trashing Judge Bork. Then we ended with wishy-washy Anthoney Kennedy.
BB’s = bulletin board(s) lol sorry
Apparently under overwhelming pressure from the McCain camp, Palin finally threw Stevens under the bus, and suggested he resign. Palin was head of Steven’s political action committee until 2005, and Stevens submitted Palin’s hundreds of millions of dollars in earmarks.
Those on this post who believe Palin is a “reformer” who will”take on the good old boys” are gulping down the GOP Kool-Aid.
Jasper: Except that Kennedy is anything but wishywashy. He’s a liberal wolf in sheep’s clothing.
I signed up for my tickets for the Obama event at Grant Park on election night! I am so excited. This is going to be a truly historic election. Go Obama!
I definitely think Sarah Palin is a very sharp woman, who has been very gracious despite the vicious personal attacks against not only her, but her family. She has shown a lot of class and poise. A wonderful role model for women today!
As far as Biden is concerned, I still laugh at his three letter word “jobs”. Sounds like something he would say. And if he is such a great candidate, how come he had to drop out after getting only a few thousand primary votes? Dont recall the exact number, but it was embarrassing for him.
Elisabeth,
Yes, because I have so much time to religiously watch each and every debate or other opportunity for any of candidates to open their mouths and proclaim the glory that will be ours once they enact their plans for our country.
Frankly, political campaigns don’t interest me. All politicians lie and avoid the issues–it’s what one does in our political system. I also already knew who I was going to vote for (and have actually already voted) so the point is moot.
And why is it that you’d love endless chances for your candidate but don’t bother to give them to anyone else?
Posted by: Enigma at October 28, 2008 9:14 AM
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1) I take my job as a voting citizen seriously and with the advent of online webcasting and storage of interviews and debates find it very easy indeed to access the information in the time I have available (which is limited as I am a RN working nights supporting 6 children and a disabled husband.)
2) I’ve posted fewer than a dozen posts on here… what makes you think you know what I do or don’t do for other candidates?
The “conservative” Pensacola News Journal endorsed Democrat Jim Davis for governor of Florida in 2006. And another Hal lie bites the dust.
Can I rant for a minute? Anyone who thinks a person has to “earn” their respect would have made a perfect Nazi. Honestly can’t we just show people basic respect without them having to impress us first? Respect should be given 100% when meeting someone, it should decrease with the persons negative actions. So people can only get decency from you if they earn it? Obviously whoever thinks that has no problem killing anyone under the age of two or any invalid. They sure as heck can’t do much to earn your respect can they? Some people are such narcissists.
You know what else is a huge fat lie? The obesity epidemic. It’s just a scam to get you to throw all your money towards frivolous diets. You don’t have to be a size two to be healthy, in fact you can still get sick even when your BMI is normal! If we are really so upset over the fact that “obesity related illnesses” cost out country so much then why don’t we get rid of any type of socialized health care and let every man, woman and child fend for themselves? And heck why not force every woman who has a baby with a genetic disorder to abort? That could save us a bunch of money. Really? Whatever healthcare system we have in this country is here to take care of the sick! Would you be happy if everyone just stopped going to the doctors?
Elisabeth,
So when I apply the same standards to you that you apply to me you cry foul?
“I also note you said the “few” that you have seen… in other words, you’ve taken a cursory glance and dismissed her out of hand. Now that takes supreme intelligence…. um, yeah, no, no it really doesn’t.”
As I said earlier, I show respect to people only when it is given in return. Until you see fit to stop making assumptions about how I think and what I do I see no reason why extend courtesies to you that have been denied to me.
Jess,
I do not suffer fools gladly.
Bestowing respect when it has not been earned is a great way to become a doormat. If I am not shown it I see no reason to extend it.
“Anyone who thinks a person has to “earn” their respect would have made a perfect Nazi.”
If you honestly think that that is an insult, you clearly haven’t been keeping abreast of psychological studies. Most people would have made great Nazis. Google the Stanley Millgram experiments and see what you find.
Best wishes to all of you..and maybe next election you will learn a more broad view of the world before you blog.
Posted by: sixtyoneandliving at October 28, 2008 9:48 AM
sixtyone,
Wordly does not mean accepting as much as it means understanding. You are judging motives without actually having discourse with/about “the people on this blog”. Try having a conversion with the individuals who post the specific comments that have offended you instead. That is how people become worldly. It is not becessarily about agreeing with anybody. It is about understanding people for who they are, differences include.
“Bestowing respect when it has not been earned is a great way to become a doormat.”
No it makes you a nice person. Giving respect to people you know clearly shouldn’t have any (anyone who would use a person as a doormat) is being stupid.
I love the people who show up on here out of nowhere, claim to be undecided voters, and then declare that Jill’s, HisMan’s, mine, or someone else’s posts are just soooo off the wall that it drove them, after 40 years of voting Republican, to switch over to Barack Obama.
What a bunch of nonsense. If someone were to seriously vote for conservative candidates for 30 or 40 years and then arbitrarily decide to throw away all of their principles and beliefs in order to vote for the disgusting worm Barack Obama, then had better have a damn good reason. And “some guy on a message board I never visited before was mean” doesn’t quite cut it.
Jess
“Giving respect to people you know clearly shouldn’t have any (anyone who would use a person as a doormat) is being stupid.”
Which is why, save for my initial comments, I haven’t shown any on this thread.
Personally, I don’t think that people who refer to what I say as “baloney” or who responds to a respectful comment with “Now that takes supreme intelligence…. um, yeah, no, no it really doesn’t” deserves to be shown any respect because, frankly, they haven’t shown me any.
Sarah is sharp. But more than that she has the gift of being able to communicate much more than what her words say. Between the lines people hear someone that is like them in many ways, and also as someone they implicitly trust as having sound leadership principles and credentials.
They also see her as a refreshing believer in the greatness of our country. This is something that contrasts sharply with Barack’s Constitution bashing, his whining, and his drawing comparisons between our government and Nazism. Listen to the tapes!
More and more she comes across as having the type of appeal that people are looking for, and in this sense some are starting to compare her communication skills to those of Reagan’s. That is a tall order to fill but in many respects it is an apt comparison.
Many people have come to admire her greatly for the values she represents and defends, myself included. They see her as loving the same things we do and thus believe she would make a great vice-president.
So tell me, did you honsetly sit down and calmly consider all of Obama’s policies before deciding that you were scared to death of him?
Did you give him chance after chance to “reform” and snag your vote or did you simply write him off?
Posted by: Enigma at October 28, 2008 9:45 AM
Enigma,
I began by looking for a reason to vote for him. I tried really hard to like him. It just got worse and worse. First of all he was a rabid pro-abort. That really surprised me cause he campaigned as a Christian and scripture teaches that the author of life is the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit is present at conception. Then I found out how he and his wife Michelle help fundraisers to try and support keeping partial birth abortion legal. Then it spiraled down from there with his dishonesty in seeing him say to a rally at Planned Parenthood that he would pass FOCA right away while telling a Christian audience at Saddleback that would be for laws banning late term abortion. You may look at that as “politics as usual” but I can’t stand a person who is disingenuine. Religion and everything else else is just a facade to him and everything is just a vehichle to political advantage with no real conviction. Including his vote oagainst the Illinois Born Alive Infants Act, he and Planned Parenthood have both admitted that it was due to the advice of Planned Parenthood that he voted the way he did. No real conviction of his own. That does not make for a good leader.
To change the subject a little. I haven’t had a chance to read his book “dreams from my Father” but I am told that he speaks kindly of his father in the book. Is that true? I can;t understand why he would when his father abandoned him as a child and he never invested/spent any time raising his son Barack Jr.
No more loaded then any I am given. I show respect only when I am given it.
Elisabeth’s statements to you had no assumptions or loaded questions. She honestly replied to your comment about Sarah Palin. If you give what you get, why did you not respond to her statement in an honest, mature fashion?
So tell me, did you honsetly sit down and calmly consider all of Obama’s policies before deciding that you were scared to death of him?
So tell me, first of all… what does this question have to do with Elisabeth’s statements to you ( which you have not yet answered)? And secondly, yes, of course I sat down and learned Obama’s policies before deciding whether I would vote for him or not. If he were not a communist and advocate of infanticide, he might actually have my vote, especially this year since it’s between him and McCain, who I also don’t like too much because of his policies. But he is far better than Obama.
All I have been doing the last several months is studying up on what Obama believes. As for being “scared to death” of him, that is quite an assumption. Did you calmly consider all of Palin’s policies before deciding you were “scared to death” of her? See, it’s just as intellectually honest to ask that question.
I could also level the exact same charge against you, except I have a feeling that it would stick somewhat better.
lol is that a new way of saying, “I’m the rubber, you’re the glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you?”
Did you give him chance after chance to “reform” and snag your vote or did you simply write him off?
Did you give Palin chance after chance to “reform” and snag your vote, or did you simply write her off? I think I already have my answer, based on your previous statements about her.
Let me correct my first sentence and say “no unfounded assumptions”.
You were the one who said “few”, and she was responding to that remark.
Can I rant for a minute? Anyone who thinks a person has to “earn” their respect would have made a perfect Nazi. Honestly can’t we just show people basic respect without them having to impress us first? Respect should be given 100% when meeting someone, it should decrease with the persons negative actions. So people can only get decency from you if they earn it? Obviously whoever thinks that has no problem killing anyone under the age of two or any invalid. They sure as heck can’t do much to earn your respect can they? Some people are such narcissists.
Jess, some days you totally confuse me. Other days, you hit the nail right on the head. You are something else. :)
*grins*
Can the anti-Obama crowd PLEASE decide whether they think he is a communist or a socialist? Because the two are totally and completely different. And then you call him a fascist, which has absolutely nothing to do with EITHER of those…
Erin, who called him a fascist?
Bethany, I’m pretty sure I’ve seen HisMan use the term once or twice. And John has as well. Not in this post, but previously.
Can the anti-Obama crowd PLEASE decide whether they think he is a communist or a socialist? Because the two are totally and completely different.

Erin, at least one reason for the use of both socialist and communist to describe Barack Obama would be that first, in Obama’s Huston Texas field office, there are two cuban flags with an image of the Cuban communist leader, Che Guevara…and secondly, Barack Obama was a certified and acknowledged member of the DSA’s socialist “New Party”.
@Bethany: That’s not helping your cause…there IS a difference between “socialist” and “communist”.
Rae, I know that.
But I don’t agree that the difference is so great that one cannot be considered a communist and a socialist. They are both stages of the same thing.
Posted by: John Lewandowski at October 28, 2008 11:12 PM
agreed.
From a communist website:
“As Communists we advocate Socialism because it is the next necessary step to get to Communism. That is, it’s not that we’ve given up on building a house, we just realize there is a need for a sturdy foundation first.”
@Bethany: No, they’re not.
Okay well granted that I may not understand it as well as you do. Please explain the differences as you understand them.
I don’t mean to hijack the discussion, but I think some of you here would be happy to help and we know it’s down to the wire with 6 days left.
Tonight we need to pray for divine intervention during Obama’s air time. Turn the t.v. off and join me and other Palin supporters. Many of us will be making phone calls for McCain during Obama’s air time. Get those phones ringing in the swing states and distract the Obots from their t.v. sets. There is still hope, help me make a difference tonight! Here is the direct link to the phone bank
http://www.johnmccain.com/PhoneBank/?guid=0A517F03-C3ED-4A24-A14A-3BD9D5F32F2F
@Bethany: Communism is a political ideology. Socialism is an economic concept. Communism has components of socialism in its ideology, yes, but socialism is not an ideology.
It’s like saying capitalism is an ideology because it tends to be associated with classical liberalism ideology (this is what America was founded on- classical liberalism), when no, capitalism just tends to be associated with classical liberalism ideology.
Communism = political ideology
Classical Liberalism = political ideology
Socialism = economic theory
Capitalism = economic theory
Communism is associated with socialism, but socialism =/= communism.
Classical liberalism is associated with capitalism, but capitalism =/= classical liberalism.
Senator Sanders of Vermont is a Democratic Socialist, and he seems alright.
Okay, then Obama would be better defined as a socialist, not a communist. Maybe a dreamer of communism?
@Hal: Democracy is a form of government. Socialism is an economic concept…they can and do go together.
@Bethany: Yes, Obama would be defined as a socialist (economically). Communist? Probably not. It tends not to work well…and you’d have to be an idiot to not realize that communism doesn’t work.
Rae, I generally agree, but I don’t think you can really conceed that Obama could be defined as a socialist. (not that there’s anything wrong with that) He’s a pretty mainstream capitalist.
Rae, Hal,
Have you researched the radical teachings of Saul Alinsky?
Google “Alinsky – Obama”.
Alinsky seems like a pretty typical 60s radical. I’ve met dozens of them over the years. Interesting that Hillary Clinton was a big fan of his.
Hal,
So you did eleven minutes of research and conclude he’s a typical 60’s radical? He was born in 1909 for one thing. At age 50, someone with his Marxist views is more than a 60’s hippie.
Hillary was a fan too. So?
Janet, didn’t you have any Marxist professors? There were tons around in the 60s and 70s. They were not teenagers. What’s the controversy here?
Hal, Gosh, no, I didn’t have any Marxist professors in college, that I know of. How many did you have? Are you still buddies? Would you want one as your president? Controversy? They are all about POWER. Obama was trained by a protege of Alinsky’s. There are just too many connections to radical leftist revolutionary ideology. This is all stuff the MSM doesn’t want you to know. Look at this excerpt from one of Alinsky’s books. Spooky.
From Rules for Radicals
by Saul Alinsky
Tactics mean doing what you can with what you have.
Tactics are those conscious deliberate acts by which human beings live with each other and deal with the world around them. In the world of give and take, tactics is the art of how to take and how to give. Here our concern is with the tactic of taking; how the Have-Nots can take power away from the Haves.
For an elementary illustration of tactics, take parts of your face as the point of reference; your eyes, your ears, and your nose. First the eyes; if you have organized a vast, mass-based people’s organization, you can parade it visibly before the enemy and openly show your power. Second the ears; if your organization is small in numbers, then…conceal the members in the dark but raise a din and clamor that will make the listener believe that your organization numbers many more than it does. Third, the nose; if your organization is too tiny even for noise, stink up the place.
Always remember the first rule of power tactics: Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.
http://www.semcosh.org/AlinskyTactics.pdf
Janet, my goodness. We had an entire “Marxist Studies” department at my college. My roomate majored in the subject. Yes, we’re still buddies. I didn’t then, and don’t now, take them too seriously. Some had valid observations about the state of the US economic system, and political situation. I don’t agree with their proposed solutions (Marxism) and I am quite sure Obama doesn’t either.
How do Marxists and Obama differ? (Don’t ask me if I’m joking.)
Rae,
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR)
was communist/socialist..regarding econimics, there is no difference. Although communism prevents citizens from having their own religious and moral convictions, and it employs violence to enforce the government’s mandates.
Janet, they differ in lots of ways. Mostly goals and tactics. Marxists believe in more government (or “collective”) ownership of the means of production than even Bush has proposed Obama doesn’t. Marxists believe that the workers of the world will (and should) rise up and take control of the means of production. Obama doesn’t.
Did you guys she this great quote from Palin. Maybe now they can finally shut up.
“And Alaska—we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs. …”
Hey genius Erin, would you say that Hitler was a fascist? Of course you would. And what was Hitler’s political party called? The National Socialist party.
You lose.
John, if you called a dog’s tail a leg, how many legs would the dog have?
*grins* Abe Lincoln quote. I know this one.
Hal, if you call Obama a good candidate, is the irrefutable fact that Obama is the worst candidate for president in history changed?
Erin, if you’re too stupid to understand how someone can be a socialist and a fascist at the same time, just say so. The extreme left and the extreme right are pretty much the same thing.
Yawn, John. You ever feel like having a meaningful discussion away from your abusive diatribe, I’m sure we’d all be happy to chat with you.
TS,
To be honest, after eight years of Bush Jr. there was no way that I would vote to put another Republican in the White House. W has done enough damage already.
No, I haven’t read the book. I’ve heard it’s quite good though. Without having done so, there is unfortunately no way that I can speculate as to why he would speak kindly of his father.
Bethandy,
“Elisabeth’s statements to you had no assumptions or loaded questions.”
Um, excuse me? What do you call this, “Now that takes supreme intelligence…. um, yeah, no, no it really doesn’t””
“She honestly replied to your comment about Sarah Palin. If you give what you get, why did you not respond to her statement in an honest, mature fashion?”
Honestly, but not respectfully.
“So tell me, first of all… what does this question have to do with Elisabeth’s statements to you ( which you have not yet answered)?”
And I have no intention of answering them until she addresses me in a respectful manner and does not cry foul for me treating her in the same way that she has treated me.
“And secondly, yes, of course I sat down and learned Obama’s policies before deciding whether I would vote for him or not. If he were not a communist and advocate of infanticide, he might actually have my vote, especially this year since it’s between him and McCain, who I also don’t like too much because of his policies. But he is far better than Obama.”
As numerous people have told you, socialism and communism are not the same. At all.
“Did you calmly consider all of Palin’s policies before deciding you were “scared to death” of her? See, it’s just as intellectually honest to ask that question.”
The more I learn about her policies, the more I fear what would happen in this country if she ever came to power.
“lol is that a new way of saying, “I’m the rubber, you’re the glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you?””
Yes and no. Insults say far more about the one who utters them than the one to whom they are uttered.
“Did you give Palin chance after chance to “reform” and snag your vote, or did you simply write her off?”
I never decide who I’m going to vote for based on the VP candidate. As I said above, the more I found out about her the less I like her.
“And Alaska—we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs. …”
Sarah Palin. Socialist?
To be honest, after eight years of Bush Jr. there was no way that I would vote to put another Republican in the White House. W has done enough damage already.
(With all due respect) that’s a poor argument for voting for Obama. Carter was really lousy too. To follow your logic, should you really be voting for a Democrat???
Is total change in every cabinet position, etc…. what we need at this time? We will have new “trainees” across the board in our government. I don’t want that uncertainty at a critical time like this in our county’s history. Remember what happened in 2001, 8 months after Bush was elected? Interesting that that occurred after 8 years of a Democrat in the White House.
Oh, also, John McCain is NOT George Bush.
Hal: Speaking of Obama you said that you are “quite sure that he doesn’t” believe in Marxist solutions.
I disagree in the strongest of terms. Obama lives, eats, and breathes socialistic principles and solutions to what he perceives are fundamental flaws in our socio-economic institutions. It is all a matter of economic and social justice. And yes, the gray areas shared by Marxism and socialism are so broad as to be at times indistinguishable from one another.
Obama does not try to hide the fact of his collectivist philosophical underpinnings because he believes them superior to anything else. Those who have not had the wool pulled over their eyes can see perfectly well where Obama is coming from, and if permitted where he wants to take our country.
Um, excuse me? What do you call this, “Now that takes supreme intelligence…. um, yeah, no, no it really doesn’t”
Well, it wasn’t an assumption…it was sarcasm to make a point. She didn’t say you were stupid, she was criticizing your criticism of Palin, based on your “few” notices of her.
As numerous people have told you, socialism and communism are not the same. At all.
And I disagree that they are not “at all” similar. But I concede to Rae’s point.
Yes and no. Insults say far more about the one who utters them than the one to whom they are uttered.
I suppose that means the insults you have been uttering over the last year are saying a lot about you, Enigma.
I never decide who I’m going to vote for based on the VP candidate. As I said above, the more I found out about her the less I like her.
Posted by: Enigma at October 29, 2008 7:03 PM
Same with my feelings about Obama.