Denver “Fort Knox” Planned Parenthood opens; protests spread
9News.com today called the newly opened Denver Planned Parenthood “Fort Knox,” referring to its $300k security system. Of course, the real Fort Knox is tightly protected because of all the gold it stores, a fitting analogy to PP all the way around.
Denver PP CEO Leslie Durgin said the new abortion big-box, at 50k sq. ft. — more than double the previous U.S. PP big-box record holder in Aurora, IL, at 22k sq. ft. — was completed three months ahead of schedule and within budget.
Certainly, the schedule and budget were made generous, due to anticipated pro-life aggravators. Amplified by the added impetus for speedy construction to quell the pickets (which aren’t going to stop, as promised) and negative PR, and that’s not saying anything.
Click on image below to link to video:
Will Duffy and The Collaborators Project are to be commended for their tireless efforts in picketing PP construction aides like Weitz execs….
This Rocky Mountain News story protested too much, making it appear as if pro-life pickets are almost good for business. Sorry, not buying it.
Nor is at least one other major U.S. construction company, as the impact of the diligence of Denver pro-lifers spreads. Reported the Associated Press June 30:
A construction company set to help build a Planned Parenthood clinic in northeast Portland [OR] has dropped the project, citing pressure from anti-abortion activists….
Walsh Construction Co. owner Bob Walsh, said he was approached two years ago to build a medical clinic. But when PP of the Columbia/
Willamette signed on as the anchor tenant, Walsh said he called other builders who had dealt with aggressive anti-abortion activists. He was told that protesters had gone as far as staking out contractors’ homes.
“It’s disruptive and very threatening,” he told The Oregonian. “I just didn’t want to put my family through that.”
Walsh said his decision was not based on moral judgment.
[Architectural rendering of Portland PP courtesy of KATU.com]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Perhaps all the anti-abortion activists should leave PP alone. That would show them.
Since Jill finds residential picketing so clever, perhaps someone in the Chicago area will stake out her house, display pornographic posters and blare music, carry signs identifying her as a racist, gay-bashing extremist, and send threatening letters to a few hundred of her neighbors. She should enjoy the attention.
Of course, unlike Will Duffy and Bob Enyart, most people have jobs, and are not insane, so they don’t harass others in their homes.
Why in the name of God do they need 50k sq. ft ???
Does this include “lecture halls” for sex-ed???
How many “procedure rooms” does this include, I wonder…?
Amazing the money and effort put into the security system…so the aborting mom’s feel “safe”.
What a sad commentary on how far we’ve slid as a society…50k sq. ft. of high security killing space for the most innocent members of our species.
Well DRF and LTL, pro-choicer’s are civil, have a much more developed sense of decorum, respect other’s privacy, and right to not only life but also liberty and pursuit of happiness – you know those things that make life worth living – perhaps we are the real pro-lifers then?
You can’t even have a shot at liberty and the pursuit of happiness without life.
LTL and Phylo, in reality pro-aborts are too lazy and self-absorbed to picket in rain, sleet, snow, and -20 to +90 degree weather – unless they’re paid, perhaps. Even then I wouldn’t count on getting a crowd out.
But the industry won’t waste its money on us.
At any rate, pro-aborts doing home pickets would only show home pickets have an impact, right?
You GO, Jill !
Wrong Jill, it would it would “give you a taste of your medicine” since you so obviously lack the imagination required for compassion.
As for having an impact – if anything, it’s a negative one – I’ve heard and read more disgust, even from self-described “pro-lifers,” when your side uses such tactics.
Just where does PP, who supposedly only serve low income women and according to one poster, just don’t have the funds to hire qualified doctors so they must depend on Physician Assistants to do abortions, come up with millions to spend on these mega centers?
Being they are so dedicated to serving the poor, I would think smaller facilities in low income and rural areas with volunteer or minimally staff and no cost to low cost services would be more their style and a better use of the millions of dollars they apparently have at their disposal. It would also reach more of the women they are supposedly dedicated to serving.
Mary, interesting advice, but I think PP knows their profession better than you do.
If you think you could provde better reproductive health care to the poor, go for it.
Phylo, the other problem being, of course, pro-lifers would wear such protests as a badge of honor. We’re not ashamed or embarrassed by what we do, trying to skulk without notice. Quite the contrary.
You should really pay more attention to the detail within those PP clinic illustrations.
Carla: You can’t even have a shot at liberty and the pursuit of happiness without life.
They are only babies Carla, they’ll never know the difference. (sa)
True enough, Janet. What was I thinking??
Wow, I am always impressed with PP’s new buildings. I especially like the long, wide driveways and fencing to keep the violent gender-role extremists back.
Hal,
How foolish of me. Of course the best way to spend the millions you have at your disposal to supposedly help the poor is to erect mega structures, especially in such poverty ravaged areas as Aurora, IL.
Do not for a minute consider that poor and rural women might be better served with more local and convenient clinics, or of how much low to no cost contraception can be provided with those extra millions. Maybe some of the low cost services could be done at no cost at all. That is what PP is all about, isn’t it Hal?
Vikki Cowart of PP, who seemed visibly shaken, says people don’t make a distinction between abortion and sex education which PP also provides.
Well of course they do! You can sell sex education supplies from a web site. You don’t need a 50K square foot facility for that! They have an agenda, and it is to take any and all stigma away from abortion.
That facility is EVIL. People of Denver, arm yourselves with your bibles and rosaries and holy water and go to the site and pray! If you’ve never thought to do something like that before, the time is now! Believe me, it will change lives! Pray for the babies, the mothers. Pray for the workers, and all of the companies who provide supplies and services to the building that they will change their hearts and leave!
Wow, I am always impressed with PP’s new buildings. I especially like the long, wide driveways and fencing to keep the violent gender-role extremists back.
Posted by: reality at July 8, 2008 11:27 AM
Your sarcasm is lost on many of us pro-lifers. People use name-calling when they have nothing better to say.
Reality, if feel any need to point out violent, extremist protesters, go pick on the animal rights activists.
“That facility is EVIL. People of Denver, arm yourselves with your bibles and rosaries and holy water and go to the site and pray! If you’ve never thought to do something like that before, the time is now! Believe me, it will change lives! Pray for the babies, the mothers. Pray for the workers, and all of the companies who provide supplies and services to the building that they will change their hearts and leave!”
Oh Amen, Janet!
“Phylo, the other problem being, of course, pro-lifers would wear such protests as a badge of honor. We’re not ashamed or embarrassed by what we do, trying to skulk without notice. Quite the contrary.”
Jill there’s a saying that a fool is always sure of himself while a wise man is full of doubt. A wise man knows that we’re only just humans, and we all make mistakes, no matter how right we think we are.
Also might I remind these pro-lifers, pride comes before a fall. You are always talking about how wonderful you are for picketing, maybe you should take a slice of humble pie?
Janet, bibles and rosaries? Sounds like you’re out to convert people. Would you fight to save a babies life if it was going to grow up to be atheist?
Cranky Catholic, you realize that’s how pro-life protesters come off? Except we don’t have the bloody fetus photos shoved in other peoples face.
And we don’t eat and wear the fetuses after we abort them. Bet you’d be even more upset if we took to wearing fetus skin hats.
Well as long as you see dead-baby photos as worse than acid-burns, broken windows, floods, and fire-bombs at residences, then you’ll always forgive the animal rights activists.
Or if we did run around stabbing pregnant women in the stomach and then mounting the dead fetuses on the walls of our homes, boasting about how big they were. “I got a fetus that was 8 and a half months!”
Like animal hunters do.
Gandhi once said you can tell how a nation treats its people by how they treat their animals. We slaughter innocent baby animals while they stare at us with their big, sad eyes, screaming in pain. Does it really surprise you that a person would take a pill to abort a pregnancy?
Cranky Catholic, do you realize how many Christian pro-lifers bomb clinics, shoot nurses and doctors and even bomb stadiums full of people in protest?
Go look up Army of God. They are very proud of the people they kill.
And if you read some of their members letters, the little Asian girls they sexually humiliate.
Jess, 12:01: Janet, bibles and rosaries? Sounds like you’re out to convert people. Would you fight to save a babies life if it was going to grow up to be atheist?
I can’t convert anyone myself. Only God can change someone’s heart. I’m advocating prayer first and foremost. Prayer is the strongest weapon against any evil. The devil (the personification of evil) HATES prayer.
You know I don’t hate atheists, and of course I would save any babies life. I don’t know why you would say that.
All people are equally loved by God. God wants us to return that same love to Him. He wants us to trust in Him. You know, with God, all things are possible.
Remember that PP is a non-profit organization.
That means that they cannot show a profit on the bottom line and therefore have to spend everything they make. That is why they build these monstrosities. How they justify a 50k sf building just to kill children is beyone me. It inidicates they need no $$$$$ from the US taxpayers to support their ghoulish business.
I would suggest that someone do an audit to make sure that PP execs are not getting kickbacks from construction companies. If they are, send them to jail, the contractors and the execs.
Being an engineer and owner’s rep in the construction industry, there are numerous and sundry ways to pad the cost of construction when there is a need to. Not including the cost of land, the cost of commercial construction can vary from $300/sf all the way up to $1,000/sf+.
For example, it would be interesting to see how much they spent on interior finishes such as wall and ceiling surfaces, hard and soft flooring, plumbing fixtures, lighting, built-in cabinetry, furnishings, computer systems, phone systems, A/V systems, etc. The $300k amount for a security system is inidicative of the lavishness of the contract.
Let’s remember that the money spent on these facilities was obtained by the termination of innocent human life. What a sad, sad commentary on the moral state of our society.
Does anyone know how much this building cost? It should be a matter a public record since they are a non-profit.
Hal: What kind of health care does PP providing to the children they terminate?
http://armyofgod.com/
I bet they go after the Jews once they kill all the abortionist.
Jess, This blog is about abortion, not animal rights, remember?
Janet, then why protest if only God can convert them? And why bother praying for them? God has a plan for everyone, I don’t think he needs your advice. No offense.
We’ve talked about Army of God in other posts. They’re anti-abortion… not pro-life. And membership is in the single digits.
Janet, Cranky Catholic brought it up! I’m innocent! Lol.
HisMan, they will provide anyone with an abortion regardless of how much money they can pay. Maybe they get a lot of money from birth control pills and the morning after pills they sell?
If you think of PP as a business (which it is first and foremost) and abortion as a product they’re selling (which it is) then you have to think, how can I make what I’m selling (you obvi aren’t selling anything more then you are just trying to convert people to your way of thinking) look more appealing then what they are selling? Why give birth over aborting? That’s what I would try and do, anyway.
Jess,
Janet, bibles and rosaries? Sounds like you’re out to convert people. Would you fight to save a babies life if it was going to grow up to be atheist?
Bibles and rosaries are weapons in a spiritual war.
Would you eat a cow, if it was raised on a Catholic Farm? Would you save a kitty if it was going to a Catholic home?
That’s crazy talk.
In response to Jill’s comments at 10:31 and 10:58- Will Duffy and Bob Enyart suffer from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (the clinical diagnosis of their associate, Ken Scott).
The Narcissist’s goal is to irritate others, while drawing attention to themselves. Narcissists are never “embarassed by what they do”. It is a part of the disorder. They claim that their picketing “has an impact”, since it makes them feel important.
The reason pro-choicers don’t picket is simple. They are mentally healthy, have jobs, families, better things to do, and respect for themselves and others, unlike Will Duffy, Bob Enyart and Ken Scott, who have absolutely no respect for the rights of others. Again, a symptom of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Most pro-lifers have utter contempt for those tactics, since they realize that they make all pro-lifers look like morons.
All Colorado voters will soon be aware that Bob Enyart, Will Duffy and Ken Scott are the people behind the “personhood amendment”. One picture of them picketing is worth a thousand words.
Once the voters understand that “personhood” is the product of a anti-gay, anti-birth control extremist hate group, the “personhood amendment” will be defeated by a record margin.
Isn’t pro-life anti-abortion? Isn’t anti-abortion pro-life?
I see right through you Janet, don’t try to convince me you’re pro-abortion, I know you’re pro-life : )
Cranky, 11:02a: Another excellent photoshop graphic!
mk, when I was born I went to a Catholic home : /
I’m still Catholic too, I’ve been praying a lot lately. I haven’t gone to church in awhile though.
Jess: 12: 27: Isn’t pro-life anti-abortion? Isn’t anti-abortion pro-life? I see right through you Janet, don’t try to convince me you’re pro-abortion, I know you’re pro-life : )
I don’t get what you are saying. Enough questions already! I have a headache!!!!
Janet, then why protest if only God can convert them? And why bother praying for them? God has a plan for everyone, I don’t think he needs your advice. No offense.
No offense taken. Help! My mind is spinning. Can someone give Jess a quick lesson on Prayer 101?
I mean, the purgatory thing. We would pray for people who were in purgatory, so God would know they were God people and bring them to Heaven faster. Well what if the person doesn’t know many people or the people don’t pray? Doesn’t God already know everything and have a plan?
Sorry more questions : O
All pro-lifers are anti-abortion. Not all anti-abortionists are pro-life. Someone murdering an abortionist isn’t being pro-life, but is being pro-choice because he mistakenly believes he has the choice to murder one person for the sake of another.
Jess,
Have you ever thought about finding your birth mother?
“…Of course, unlike Will Duffy and Bob Enyart, most people have jobs, and are not insane, so they don’t harass others in their homes.
Posted by: LTL at July 8, 2008 10:15 AM”
Hey Larry, I thought lying to the police and city council was beneath you, but on a Pro Life blog? I’ve decided to put an offer on the house next to yours. Not to worry, I’ll check the ordinance on decibal levels before signing a contract. If you really believe these good men don’t have jobs and are insane I will personally welcome you to publicly debate either. Lie your way out of that Larry…
Oh no mk, sorry, my family is Catholic. I am my Mom’s daughter, and my Dad’s daughter too, biologically.
You just said the thing about the kitty going to a Catholic home so… Yeah my Mom’s side of the family is very Catholic and pro-life, and even though I am just like her in almost every way, I am more like my Dad and Grandma when it comes to religion (they are both Lutherans).
theonlything2fear, I don’t know where you guys work but I don’t know how they’re taking all this time off to protest. It definitely wouldn’t fly at my job.
…Narcissists are never “embarassed by what they do”. It is a part of the disorder. They claim that their picketing “has an impact”, since it makes them feel important.”
LTL, I have participated in many protests, not pickets, and you can believe me there are ZERO pro life activists that claim protesting makes them feel important. Feeling is for liberal, spineless, gutless baby killing supporters that use company time and resources to vent on a blog where their selfish impulse is to add nothing of substance.
And yes, protesting is very impactful. It exposed the lie Weitz was telling their sub-contractors, and many quit. It exposes what PP really does in collecting 95% of their revenue off of their so-called 6% of services. You will be on the wrong side of this moral and social issue very soon. Leave the dark side and join us for an afternoon of exercise and fellowship, you’ll be happier!
Jess, try pulling your face away from the television, or computer for a couple of hours, get out into the daylight, get some exercise and then you’ll realize that protests aren’t what you perceive them to be.
Hey Jess:
I have a book recommendation for you: The Unoriginal Sinner and the Ice Cream God. Powers is the author. Enjoy!
Jess,
I think it was Erin that was adopted…sorry.
Purgatory is a place where people go to “serve out their sentence” to put it in a simplified way. It’s a spiritual shower, preparing you for your final destination…Did you ever see the Andromeda Strain? Remember the room they all went in to get decontaminated?
Souls in purgatory cannot pray for themselves, but we can pray for them. Our prayers help speed up the decontamination process. Once their debt has been “paid”, then can enter the beatific vision (heaven and the physical presence of God). Each prayer chips away a bit of “dirt”…
That is a really, really simplified version of it.
The same applies to prayers at the clinics. We are praying, beseeching God to intervene. To convert hearts. It’s like a scale. A certain amouont of sacrifice/prayers are required and then *BINGO*, our prayer is answered.
Again, I have really, really simplified the whole thing.
“I am more like my Dad and Grandma when it comes to religion (they are both Lutherans). ”
Posted by: Jess at July 8, 2008 12:57 PM
————————————–
Then you’re, what we call, a ‘cafeteria’ Catholic…you pick and choose which teachings of the Catholic Church you will follow, for the moment.
TRUE Catholics, however, accept and (try to) follow ALL of the Church’s teachings no matter how difficult they may be….
Will Duffy a/k/a the only thing 2 fear 12:54.
I guess the only thing 2 fear is an unemployed flunky with no life and nothing to do.
Your sarcasm is lost on many of us pro-lifers. People use name-calling when they have nothing better to say.
Posted by: Janet at July 8, 2008 11:41 AM
LTL and Phylo, in reality pro-aborts are too lazy and self-absorbed to picket in rain, sleet, snow, and -20 to +90 degree weather – unless they’re paid, perhaps. Even then I wouldn’t count on getting a crowd out.
Posted by: Jill Stanek at July 8, 2008 10:31 AM
mk, so what if 2 billion people all prayed for a good person to go to hell, would the good person eventually go to hell?
theonlything, I don’t just sit around in front of the tv or computer, lol, not anymore then the rest of you at least. I have a lot to do between running, being on a sports team, working, going to college, ect… That’s why I don’t get why so many people have so much time to spend standing outside of a building, no matter how good the cause.
Will Duffy is theonlything2fear? Aren’t you the one who told me to hit myself in the head with a two by four? Well, so much for not advocating violence.
Wow. George Tiller won’t be able to claim the title “America’s Auschwitz” much longer.
And what’s this schidt-tainted koolaid “reality” has been drinking and spewing?! Those big black fences aren’t keeping any violent extremists out; they are there to keep the violent baby-killing extremists supplied with fresh innocent humans to slaughter, more women to mislead, exploit, injure, and kill.
Oh yes, for an accurate representation (IF YOU CAN HANDLE IT!) of abortion related violence/fascism/estremism/lies, please check out abortionviolence.com at your earliest opportunity (that would be now, if you’re reading this).
Cheers,
“..in reality pro-aborts are too lazy and self-absorbed to picket in rain, sleet, snow, and -20 to +90 degree weather – unless they’re paid, perhaps. Even then I wouldn’t count on getting a crowd out.”
—————————————-
I’ve been to a -15 deg (with wind chill) protest at the Aurora PP last Dec….not only is there no pro-abort in sight..even the deathscorts won’t even come out to give us the finger-to-heaven acknowledgement and they were paid to be outside and “protect” their “clients”.
” what if 2 billion people all prayed for a good person to go to hell, would the good person eventually go to hell?”
————————————–
Now, why would anybody want that?
Godly prayers are for the good of a person or a soul…they will always be answered (either in the neg or positive).
A positive answer means that the prayer is in line with God’s Will…
IF (heaven forbid) you wish that something bad happen to another person…then somebody else (other than God) answered that…and you are opening yourself up to that “other” being…
Uhh…Will Duffy here…not up there. I don’t hide on this blog, never have. Enjoying the posts. Not sure who theonlything2fear is, but appreciate him/her as well.
Jess,
mk, so what if 2 billion people all prayed for a good person to go to hell, would the good person eventually go to hell?
We know that God does not desire anyone to go to hell, and all the prayers in the world will not induce God to do something that He doesn’t want to.
If 2 billion people were praying for someone to go to hell, then those prayers would not be going to “God”…they might get answered, but not by Him.
Whether or not a person goes to Hell, is ultimately up to the person, not God.
Jess, the Catholic Church recognizes four different types of prayer, (all of which could be prayed outside of an abortion center). Those whose sole purpose is praying would be considered “prayer warriors”, or the like, and not “protestors”.
Petition is the most common form of prayer. We should not be shamed to ask God for what we need, but we should be especially attentive to the needs of others and especially to those who have so little in life.
Reparation is a form of prayer that, through sorrow and self-effacement, seeks forgiveness for sins. The Orthodox tradition is full of such prayer. We begin each Mass with this form when we say or sing: “Lord, have mercy; Christ, have mercy; Lord, have mercy.”
Adoration is a special type of prayer that involves a deep love and an awareness of God’s “otherness” and our dependence on God. Often in this form of prayer, no words are spoken. It is an attitude, a stance, taken before God’s majesty.
Thanksgiving is probably the highest form of prayer. The Mass is the most perfect prayer of thanksgiving. A grateful heart simply wants to say thanks
mk, what if two people do the same amount of good works, but person 1 does them anonymously. Person 2 will probably have more people praying for them. Does that mean person 2 goes to heaven sooner?
I’m really curious here.
Janet, I still don’t get it. God knows everything, he knows if people need something, even before they ask. And what about God’s plan? Isn’t God omnipotent with infinite wisdom?
Denver Planned Parenthood “on budget”?
My post earlier today about the newly opened Denver Planned Parenthood referred to PP CEO Leslie Durgin’s stating the building was “on budget.” Wait, not so fast, unless “on budget” means a 50% cost overrun. Projected budget when this story…
Will D, God Bless you for what you are doing for Life. It’s a sad day to hear that PPRM has opened but our prayers will continue. Do you have any special plans at the time of the Democratic National Convention that we should know about? Let us know how pro-lifers around the country can help!
Do you still have an organized daily presence at PPRM? How far are you from Boulder (driving time)?
Jess, it is because our participation is a PART of God’s divine providence. I think the problem is that you’re thinking that by praying, people are informing God of something he doesn’t know or making a request to him that he is hearing for the first time. On the contrary, as you mentioned above, God is all-knowing. But for whatever reason known to him alone, God wills our participation in salvation history. Are our prayers necessary in the sense that God couldn’t accomplish his “goals” without them? Of course not. But he has designed it so that our prayers are part of his divine providence. If you or I were God would we do things differently? Maybe, but this is the way God has set things up.
Jess,
mk, what if two people do the same amount of good works, but person 1 does them anonymously. Person 2 will probably have more people praying for them. Does that mean person 2 goes to heaven sooner?
I’m really curious here.
The short answer is “yes”…the long answer, I can’t speak for God. But we are a community. We help each other, here on earth as they do in heaven. We are responsible for our brothers, so yes, to a degree, their entry into heaven does depend on us somewhat.
Remember tho Jess, that protestants don’t believe this. It’s a Catholic thing.
We even have a day dedicated to just praying for the souls in purgatory…All souls day.
In Medjugorje, Mary told the kids in an apparition, that more people are released from purgatory than even All Souls Day, because more people pray for them then. (Warning: Apparitions are not part of church doctrine and you are NOT required to believe in them. I only brought it up because it was interesting).
You, too, Jess, can pray for the Poor Souls (which is how we refer to them). Just ask God for Mercy on their souls. Many saints were devoted to getting these souls out of purgatory. And when they are finally freed, they will in turn be able to pray on YOUR behalf…
It is really sad that some people are there for a long long time because they have no one down here to pray for them…
Bobby, Janet,
Excellent answers.
mk, what if two people do the same amount of good works, but person 1 does them anonymously. Person 2 will probably have more people praying for them. Does that mean person 2 goes to heaven sooner?
Aren’t we digressing here?, but as long as you asked:
We will be judged by our deeds and by the love with which they were performed. Why don’t you try reading St. Therese of Lisieux autobiography, “Story of a Soul”?
P.S. Hey, guys, ditto — good answers!
Thanks for the recommendation, Eileen! Sounds great.
Thanks mk and Eileen. Same to you and Bobby, too!
FYI, The Archdiocese of Milwaukee website is an excellent one (See my link at 2:00PM). Under the heading of Our Faith/Prayers is a “Prayer for Computer Users”. It’s pretty good! :)
http://www.archmil.org/ourfaith/praycomputer.asp
“It is really sad that some people are there for a long long time because they have no one down here to pray for them…”
I don’t think that’s right. Going to heaven should not be a popularity contest.
Jess,
God isn’t limited by time and space and He doesn’t need our works and prayers but He wants them. The Catholic Church’s teaching on Purgatory is based on scripture and Tradition. I for one am glad that people will be praying for me after my death. The time one spends in Purgatory is ultimately dependent upon God’s Mercy. I think it is beautiful that we can pray for each other, for our loved ones who have gone before us and that those in Heaven are praying for us.
BTW, I love Archbishop Timothy Dolan. I heard him speak at our local Catholic college and he is awesome! (He is in Milwaukee, isn’t he?)
I should probably clarify,The time one spends in Purgatory is ultimately dependent upon God’s Mercy: His Judgment also.
Jess,
I am sorry that you are so confused about your faith. Do you have a Bible? Start with the book of John and I will pray that God helps you understand His words.
I for one do not believe in purgatory, I have never found it in Scripture BUT do not want to start a 3,000 comment thread. :O
Jess,
I don’t think that’s right. Going to heaven should not be a popularity contest.
Lol…I could see how you might see it that way…
But as others have said, the bottom line is up to God.
It’s not about popularity. It’s about all of us entering a relationship with each other and taking care of each other.
I feed my kids every day. Some mothers don’t. Does that mean that my kids are winning a popularity contest? No. It means that I am doing my job and looking out for those that are placed in my trust.
While it is sad, that some people have no one praying for them, it does not have to be that way. And it is not God’s choice that it is so. If we refuse to love Him, to follow Him, then we are also, in essence refusing to cooperate with Him, which means that people/souls will fall through the cracks. There is no reason that ANYONE should not reach heaven. If only EVERYONE would do their job…
Which is why I pray for you every Sunday at Mass Jess. Now that I have grown to love you, I am in part responsible for your soul. To neglect praying for you would mean that if you fail to find your way back to God, it will be in part, my fault. The final decision, is, of course, up to you, but when I pray for you, God’s heart is softenend and He sends you graces. Graces which can in turn melt your heart. Relationships. It always comes back to relationships and communion…with each other and with God.
Carla,
LOL…Jess brought up purgatory and it was only fair to answer her as it was an honest question. Feel free to tell her how you see it. Her mother after all is protestant. I promise, I won’t argue with you. I’m much more interested in Jess understanding God and her relationship with Him. I only clarified that protestants don’t believe in purgatory so that I didn’t sound like I was speaking for all Christians. That would have been unfair. Jess needs to know that we have different ways of expressing our faiths…both of them valid.
Thanks MK…we’re good.
Jess,
Call Mommy!! :)
Jess…have you thought of attending an RCIA class or even a CCD class in your local Church?
It seems you are confused with what the Catholic church teaches.
Maybe start reading the CCC or even the summary of the CCC?
MK,
Could you pray for me too? I hope so as I am a young Catholic and still growing/struggling in my faith. My struggle comes from having enough time to be an active member of my religion/faith. So maybe prayers that I can learn better time-management are in order too. :)
I feed my kids every day. Some mothers don’t. Does that mean that my kids are winning a popularity contest? No. It means that I am doing my job and looking out for those that are placed in my trust.
But what if you do look out for others, but do so anonymously? I mean obviously you can’t anonymously feed your kids, but what if you donate to things quietly and without comment? What of humility? Is it your duty to make sure that other people know of your good works, or is it merely your duty to do good works? I find this very interesting; I haven’t heard of the idea before.
Gianna and I will keep you and Gabriella in our prayers too, Elizabeth.
E,
You know you are on my prayer list…didn’t even have to ask. Might I suggest beginning with confession? Hardest step, but the absolute MUST first move, if you want to go forward. If your soul ain’t clean, you won’t be able to hear Him, or receive those graces.
Alexandra,
Sorry for doubling the posts but my computer is taking for EVER to accept my comments…
You don’t get people to pray for you because you do good works. You get people to pray for you by belonging to the church. And loving others. Even if you never told a soul that you gave a million dollars to the homeless, if you are a Catholic and live a Catholic life (and by this I don’t mean only going to church and following the rules…I mean truly trying to live as Christ did) then people will be drawn to you. They will know you by your actions and words and the loving kind way that you treat people. If they are believers they will pray for you.
Look at Bobby. He is so sweet and so patient…His Catholic-ness is shining through. If you were to pick someone on this board that best expresses Christianity, I bet you’d pick him. If I told you to pick the best person on this board and pray for him, chances are good, you’d pray for him.
And you (nor I) have any idea whether or not he gives money to the poor, or feeds the hungry.
On the other hand, if you are living a Catholic life, you will most likely surround yourself with OTHER Catholics who will automatically be praying for you simply because you are in their life and part of the “family”…
Plus all of the masses in the world are being said for the conversion of sinners. There are cloistered orders of nuns and monks that do NOTHING except pray…morning, noon, and night.
You probably don’t realize how many people pray for you. Ask Carder. She saw my little purple paper. She saw your name and Jess’s on it…
PLUS, if you have ancestors that are Catholic, they too are praying for your soul. Grandparents, great grandparents, great-great-great grandparents.
Often when I watch girls going into the clinic, I think that it is possible that some of those girls have NEVER had a single person pray for them. It breaks my heart. So I pray for them. As do others at all the clinics around the world.
That’s the reason for the rosaries. That’s the reason for the bibles. Not to guilt you, or convert you, or berate you. But to pray for you.
Jess, I don’t know think anyone mentioned this yet… Regarding purgatory, we Catholics can make general prayers for ALL (unnamed) souls in purgatory. We do not have to pray for specific people. It isn’t a “popularity contest” as you suggested earlier. As Eileen said @3:13: the amount of time we spend in purgatory is ultimately dependent on God’s mercy.
Thanks MK! And Bobby for the prayers. I actually went to church with Gabriella last week for the first time in a while and it was nice, and Gabriella behaved really well which was a relief. (That’s really why I haven’t gone as much, because I don’t want to deal with her acting up in church) But I’m really going to try and go more. I definitely need to talk to God more and allow Him to help me out with my problems and not take them all on myself!
mk:
Beautiful remarks! Ditto on Bobby! :)
Elizabeth, I will pray for you too. I agree with mk, confession is the way to go, no matter how daunting it may seem at first. It’s a great “kick-start” (Can I say that?) :) God bless you! I’m so glad you are still around too!!!
Elizabeth,
I’d like to talk to you about something, if you want. Ask mk to give me your email address or vice versa!
Look at Bobby. He is so sweet and so patient…His Catholic-ness is shining through. If you were to pick someone on this board that best expresses Christianity, I bet you’d pick him. If I told you to pick the best person on this board and pray for him, chances are good, you’d pray for him.
I agree with all of this. It’s funny, I’m always like, “Man, Bobby is so awesome.” I didn’t think it was a religious thing though, just a personality thing.
Between the two of you, though, it’s a tough call!
For the record, my telling you that I pray for you could be considered talking about my “good works”, but I didn’t say it to get kudos, I said it so you’d understand that part of a Catholics life must include prayer, and that I take that very seriously.
Sometimes it’s okay to tell others what you are doing, if only to use it as an example or encourage others to do the same. It should NEVER be talked about so that others will say “Wow, aren’t you something!”
There are actually any number of people on this blog that are very Christian like and yet profess no faith.
Mary comes to mind. But if you think about it, Mary is actually abiding by Christian principles, even if she isn’t a believer. She is respectful, and kind and rarely if ever loses her patience.
CSLewis once wrote (in his Narnia books) that people can’t do bad things and attribute them to God, and they can’t do good things and attribute them to satan.
When Jess asked if if 2 million people prayed that someone could go to hell, would God listen…I answered that he couldn’t even if He wanted to. He doesn’t do bad, He only does good.
Doug claims that there is no objective right or wrong and we disagree. We believe that there is objective morality. And anything Good goes to and comes from God, even if the person doing it or receiving it is unaware or does not believe.
Anything bad goes to or comes from satan. Even if we don’t acknowledge it. So when Mary behaves so beautifully, so graciously, we see God shining through. Even if she herself, doesn’t.
Likewise, when Hisman lets his anger get ahold of him, then even tho he professes to be a Christian, we know that it is satan working through him.
So it is possible to be a good person, and actually be doing God’s work, or cooperating with Him without realizing it, or professing to be a Christian.’
It’s a journey that begins with small steps. Those who embrace Good naturally, and are open to the concept usually find that believing comes easily. Those who try to to good, but find themselves instead, constantly choosing what we would term objective “bads”, find it harder to believe because it would require them to change.
Mary may not realize it, but she is actually a good Christian women…lol.
Good Lord, am I starting to sound preachy??? Someone stop me!
MK, can you send Janet my email address?
And when they are finally freed, they will in turn be able to pray on YOUR behalf…
It is really sad that some people are there for a long long time because they have no one down here to pray for them…
Posted by: mk at July 8, 2008 2:22 PM
Now I know where multilevel marketing schemes come from.
Sure E.
Phylo,
Lol…too funny! Amway has always claimed to be a Christian organization!
Hey, my post was deleted. The one that put these two quotes together:
Your sarcasm is lost on many of us pro-lifers. People use name-calling when they have nothing better to say.
Posted by: Janet at July 8, 2008 11:41 AM
LTL and Phylo, in reality pro-aborts are too lazy and self-absorbed to picket in rain, sleet, snow, and -20 to +90 degree weather – unless they’re paid, perhaps.
Posted by: Jill Stanek at July 8, 2008 10:31 AM
“(That’s really why I haven’t gone as much, because I don’t want to deal with her acting up in church) But I’m really going to try and go more.”
We struggle in church sometimes with are boys as well. The best thing is to keep going and they will realize after time that they have to behave and keep quiet in church. It gets easier the more you go.
MK, 5:34PM
Thank you so much. What kind things to say. :)
I view abortion as a moral, not religious, issue and one in which people of all faiths, and no faith, can agree.
For the record I would call myself borderline agnostic, more like I’m uncertain what I believe, though I continue to attend church and enjoy doing so.
Staying out of religious debates is just my personal preference, though I respect the decision of others to engage in them.
Again MK, thank you for such kind words.
Mary
Cranky Catholic, 11:02
LOL!
Mary,
It’s all true, and I’m sure everyone here will back me up. You’re wonderful!
phylosopher: Well DRF and LTL, pro-choicer’s are civil, have a much more developed sense of decorum,
Yep, that decorum is in evidence, when after collecting their blood money, they DO try and make sure they have all of the little body parts together! And I guess those several jars of parts ARE neatly lined on the shelf. It’s the latest in interior design…I believe they call it “planned nouveau gore”.
Hal: If you think you could provide better reproductive health care to the poor, go for it.
Just seeing a baby being born to the poor rather than slaughtered is “better reproductive health” than what the other side offers…you see real reproductive health recognizes perfectly healthy pregnancies and doesn’t interrupt them with the invasion of sharp instruments of destruction into those healthy women. Then again, we have to deal today with “new speak” in “health” care. It’s the “new health” Kool-aid being offered to the poor duped drinkers!
Jess: Also might I remind these pro-lifers, pride comes before a fall.
Pride has reached its summit when it’s so bold as to dare substitute its own will over the Creator’s Himself and His. That kind of pride, of even the brightest and most intelligent of angels, now lives out its eternal life in hell. But then, those who live there already in this life won’t even notice the difference!!
mk, thank you for praying for me.
I do have Catholic relatives on my mom’s side. But they weren’t too serious about it, I don’t think — my mom said that the main reason she went to Catholic school was that her family was dirt poor and the Catholic school gave them uniforms, so that was a ton of clothes my grandmother was saved from having to make. My mom is the 7th of 10 children, so over all those years that’s a lot of money you can save on fabric for clothes. I mean obviously you still need non-uniform clothes, but you don’t need as much of them if the kids are only wearing them on evenings and weekends.
Yes! Mary is awesome!
Carla.
Thank you as well. I appreciate your kind words.
Mary
Mary,
While we’re talking about you, I assumed you were Catholic when I first came on Jill’s, probably first because of your name, but later because of your strong pro-life views. Just thought you’d like to know… :)
It gets easier the more you go.
Thanks Jasper..for a 2 1/2 year old, she did pretty good. Luckily my church has these REALLY beautiful stained glass windows and she was in awe of those for a while lol.
Since Jill finds residential picketing so clever, perhaps someone in the Chicago area will stake out her house, display pornographic posters and blare music, carry signs identifying her as a racist, gay-bashing extremist, and send threatening letters to a few hundred of her neighbors. She should enjoy the attention.
Of course, unlike Will Duffy and Bob Enyart, most people have jobs, and are not insane, so they don’t harass others in their homes.
Posted by: LTL at July 8, 2008 10:15 AM
LTL, that would be awesome. Sounds like too much fun. I’m comfortable with being known as someone who is against baby killing. I wish they would start with my house.
Oh wait! Then I might be known as the guy who tries to save the lives of unborn children.
Janet 10:04PM
How interesting. Actually I was baptized Lutheran as an infant and Catholic at the age of 10. In my German Lutheran family Catholicism was viewed with considerable scorn and my mother’s conversion to it was viewed very contemptuously.
I returned to the Lutheran church after my children were born, and they were baptized as such.
To me it just wasn’t an issue either way, I was not a devout Catholic, and if my husband preferred our children Lutheran, so what.
That’s my life’s journey so far! :)
Oh, my name comes from my father’s sister. His side of the family was originally Russian Orthodox but he was adopted and raised Lutheran.
Jess,
Try adding this to your prayers.
“God , if it be for your greater glory, please grant the favors I ask of you at this time.”
“Will Duffy a/k/a the only thing 2 fear 12:54.
I guess the only thing 2 fear is an unemployed flunky with no life and nothing to do.”
LTL, sorry had to work, and that is, by the way opposite of nothing to do. I have owned and operated my own company since the early 1990’s. That takes care of your stab at my being umemployed. You guessed wrong, I guessed right. Kind of like we are both pro-choice, you choose death and I choose life. Infuriating isn’t it? If I’m such a flunky why not publicly debate me at our next protest? Just two people having a reasonable discussion on the difference between right and wrong on this moral, social issue. Perhaps the facts could be discussed rather than just being in the way of your way of thinking. C’mon, do you really believe people that protest just show up arbitrarily? Oh, and sorry, I don’t accept insults…awaiting your reply.
“display pornographic posters…carry signs identifying her as a racist, gay-bashing extremist…”
LTL, Please define pornographic. How did you arrive at racist, gay-bashing, extremist, when all Jill Stanek did was expose how fully intact babies survivng the “procedure” of abortion are being dumped into trash cans and bags until they suffocate to death? Facts man, they’re everywhere…
“Pride has reached its summit when it’s so bold as to dare substitute its own will over the Creator’s Himself and His.”
KC, I agree. Awesome post!
I’m not Catholic, either, but Jess, I hope you find the answers to your questions about your faith.
You too, Mary. Whatever those questions may be. :)
Has anyone heard from LTL? LTL are you there? Hello? HELLO?
LTL, are you there? Hello? I guess LTL is boring others with meaningless blather, misinformation, and insults on another blog. Evidence that calling on a baby killing supporter to defend their position turns them speechless. Victory!