Weekend question
Last week came the first noticeable hurdle to Barack Obama’s race to the White House: his pastor, Jeremiah Wright.
News organizations held their collective finger on the replay button showing sermon clips from “best of” videos Wright sells at his Trinity United Church of Christ bookshop.
In these Wright displays himself as an anti-American black racist who thinks the U.S. government secretly launched the AIDS epidemic to wipe out blacks; that Jesus was “a poor black man” killed in a country “controlled by rich white people” by “Italians“; that 9/11 was a terrorist turnabout, giving the U.S. back what it has given; that Israel’s nuclear weapons are “ethnic bombs” designed in part to wipe out blacks, and much more.
Not news: I am an Obama cynic. I live 30 minutes from Obama’s church. I have attended it. My take is Obama joined TUCC, the largest black UCC church in the U.S., to garner southside Chicago black church power to help elevate him in politics, which worked at the time. As a community organizer before garnering his IL senate seat, Obama had access to all the southside churches and picked Wright’s for good reason.
This week, as reporters pored over old Wright sermons, speechs, and videos, more vileness came out, such as that Wright called Italians “garlic noses.” We can expect more in weeks and months to come.
So here’s a Gary Varvel comic inviting readers to write the caption as Barack and Michelle shake hands with Wright one fine Sunday morning.
Try your hand. What do you think Obama is saying?
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
How about:
“Could you go a little “blacker” Rev.? I could use the poll bump.”
LOL Pajama Mama!
or maybe:
“Could you do a little more anti-American stuff, Rev.? DailyKos and MoveOn called yesterday and are asking me for that little ‘extra’ effort for me to earn their support.”
As long as there are no sermons about respecting life my wife and I can fit right into this church.
“How does ‘U.S. Ambassador to Italy’ sound, Rev?”
“Rev, could you also do a sermon about the evil pro-life conspiracy to let black babies live?”
Ummm…can you tell that I’m not a BHO fan?
PJMama,
You are on a roll today!! :)
I’ve been bamboozled by enough smooth talkers in my life to know one when I see one. He’s not foolin’ me…
“You are the Weakest Link [to my campaign]. Good byeee!”
Obama: Nice sermon, Reverend. I never knew that Jesus died for our national healthcare.
Trivia Time!
Who said this in 2000?:
“I hate the gooks. I’ll hate them as long as I live.”
(First clue? It wasn’t anyones’ PASTOR!)
@FF: John McCain!
Laura, that was said by the next president of the United States of America, John McCain. He went on to say:
“I was referring to my prison guards and I will continue to refer to them in language that might offend some people because of the beating and torture of my friends.”
So… John McCain hates the people who tortured him and his friends. Sure, that’s the same thing as accusing innocent white people of inventing AIDS for genocide.
“That was the best sermon I didn’t actually hear/ pay attention to.”
@John: There are some white people who think the CIA created HIV/AIDS and spread it via polio vaccinations particular to black Africans and gay men.
Of course, I think people who think that are well…nuts, but yeah, it’s not a new “theory” that only Rev. Wright holds.
“You do understand that I had to deny you three times before the primary closed”
Wait wasn’t AIDS sent from to God to punish gay people?
Jesus wasn’t black or white he was Middle Eastern. He was more Asian then anything.
“@John: There are some white people who think the CIA created HIV/AIDS and spread it via polio vaccinations particular to black Africans and gay men.”
Well that backfired.
Rae, Hmm, if a destructive thing seems to hit mostly blacks and gays, why not suspect that they may be somehow targeted? Or at least, discourage behavior known to spread the destruction? How about, instead of calling those you don’t agree with nuts, posting some evidence for your view? Maybe just for schitzen giggles, or the sheer novelty of the phenomenon ?!
You know, replacing skewed, twisted, ad hominem hate-spewing with legitimate debate?!
Same for you, ff/voldemort.
How about this:
“Seeing how religion can be used to justify any crazy position, left or right, I’ve decided to give it up and just try to be a good person.”
FF I love you!!!! I never stopped loving you!!!!
“You do understand that I had to deny you three times before the primary closed”
Posted by: truthseeker at March 29, 2008 11:36 AM
OH LOL~ That one rocks!
ts,
My favorite so far!
Don’t worry Reverend, I’ll get the word out AFTER I’m elected. So help a brother out, and lay low for a while.
mmmmk, I’ll give it a shot:
“If anyone asks, I wasn’t here okay?”
Trivia Time!
I love how Laura tries to swoop in and completely change the subject.
**but what else is new???
Question: for those of you who are convinced there’s some underlying racist conspiracy to kill off blacks via abortion, and knowing that John McCain isn’t exactly an ardent pro lifer (he claims it on his ticket, yes, but he’s also made it pretty clear he’s not going to make it his personal mission to change the current laws), wouldn’t you WANT a guy like Obama in office who, if nothing else, will be more attentive to the socioeconomic needs of the black community? The needs that so often leave black teens and black single moms feeling like their best option is an abortion?
Amanda, I would never vote for Obama b/c he promotes abortion to the point of supporting infantacide of already-born babies who are deemed “unwanted”.
Kristi – I have mixed feelings about the born alive act. I really have to do more research on the wording – but I’d have no issue with it if not for the fact that from what I’ve read, it would give doctors permission to put very premature or seriously ill and/or fatally deformed babies on life support after an abortion attempt. When a born adult is in that severe a condition, it is the decision of the person’s health proxy to decide whether or not to remove them from life support if that person had not made his/her wishes clear.
In this case, the decision would and should fall on the mother. So if a mother goes to have an abortion because of a fatal abnormality, and the baby is delivered alive, if the baby and the mother have EQUAL rights, the mother would be able to decide if that baby should be put on life support, or just allowed to pass on.
However, in the case of a woman just deciding AFTER the point of viability that she wants an abortion for no reason having to do with her health or the health of her fetus (this is something a lot of pro lifers believe happens a lot – I don’t think it does – but I’m sure it does SOMETIMES), then I absolutely believe there should be a law that removes all parental responsibility from this mother, and a C section or induced labor would deliver the baby alive and adopted through a closed adoption.
For those of you who are plainly uninformed about John McCain I had lunch yesterday with Len Munsil, the founder of the Center for Arizona Policy, the biggest pro-family and pro-life organization in the United States. The pro-life movement will eventually see Len as a major, major player in the National pro-life movement and I can’t give you all the details now.
And your statements about John not wanting to change the laws are plainly wrong. John realizes in the face of the Supreme Court any attempt for the states to changes their abortion laws would be fruitless. It is his philiosophy that the only way to change abortion laws is via the Supreme Court. Now this doesn’t mean he isn’t pro-life. It means he has a different opinion on how to deal with the issue.
Here are some talking points:
1) 100 percent pro-life Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma is backing McCain.
2) McCain has a 100 percent pro-life voting record and has called for Roe v. Wade to be overturned.
3) John’s only negative from a pro-life standpoint is his past support for federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. This is a direct result of his friendship with former Congressman Mo Udall, who died of Parkinson
Amanda, re: 2:05 there is really nothing that Obama stands for that I can support. Even taking away the abortion issue, I see no good thing coming from his as being president. http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Barack_Obama.htm
You mean like more entitlements, more soft-racism of low expectations and the attendant throwing of more money at a problem to fix it by not addressing it? Do you mean more socialism/statism?
No, Amanda. Obama is the LAST thing blacks in this country need.
Now back to Jill’s post.
Hey Pastor, outstanding sermon this morning (hey Katie, get over here so you can hear this yourself, is your recorder on). I gotta say Pastor, this is the first time, I mean first and ONLY time I’ve agreed with one of your sermons and actually made it a part of my value system. Hey, Pastor, did you see Hillary’s eyes and the smile on her face when you mentioned that oral sex was sex and that is was a sin and that adultery was justifiable grounds for divorce? You DID see Hillary, didn’t you, Pastor, Row 1, Seat 13, Section A, red pant suit, big hips, sulking jowls, beady shifty eyes? And did you see Bill, his face was as red as Hillary’s outfit. Write that down Katie, today, Sunday, March, 30, 2008, 1st Service, righttttttttt Pastor? (wink). Hey, Pastor, you want Shaun Hannity’s phone number?”
Walking out of the santuary…..”Now Katie, remember in your newscast to mention that you happened to see me talking to Pastor Wright and how I had agreed with and rebuked my Pastor at the same time. And this too Katie, don’t forget to mention that the Clinton Klan was here today. CNN, Fox News and Rush and Hannity will have a ball with that one. Now between you and me Katie, this really was for the benefit of Hill. We all know that when she loses this thing she’s gonna dump the biggest loser of all time, you know, Chubilly. I told Pastor he had to give her a way out. Boy, am I glad I’m not her.”
Amanda trots out the old lie that liberal economic policies help the poor. If that’s the case, why are our major cities, which are almost all run by liberal Democrat mayors, also all full of poor people? The “war on poverty” has been much more expensive than the war on terror, and what do we have to show for it? That’s right; millions of people “permanently” stuck on Welfare, “permanently” stuck in poverty, in the richest and greatest nation on the planet. Great job, leftists!
Yeah, we’ll vote for Obama even if he is the most pro-abortion Democrat to even run for president… because he’s going to expand the Welfare state even more, and make even more people dependent upon the government. Yeah, let’s NOT vote for that guy.
John McCain for President! As HisMan said, he is the only choice for pro-lifers. I don’t really like McCain, but to say he isn’t pro-life is ridiculous. He has the support of Sam Brownback, who was the most pro-life among all of the presidential candidates.
Lamont:
Blacks as well as every single one of us, don’t need more government, they need to know that the goverment is their problem.
HisMan,
That is basically my point. But blacks need to get this through their skulls. But as long as they are stuck inside inner-city gummint indoctrination centers that are staffed and run by the very ‘adults’ who have bought into the same lies they were told when they were helpless inside the same classrooms, blacks and Latinos will always remain on the Liberal Plantation, blaming everyone but the real villains for their sorry state.
Exactly, HisMan. The poor need a hand up, not a hand out. Give them a hand out and they’ll be stuck in poverty forever. Give them a hand up and they’ll break the cycle of poverty.
I support the government giving people a hand up, but I will never support a hand out for anyone other than the most needy among us. And Barack Obama wants to give a hand out to everyone, which is absurd.
Jeremiah Wright isn’t the only one with conspiracy theories. There is a conspiracy theory among conservatives that liberal politicians know that their policy doesn’t end poverty, but rather traps people in poverty… but they keep supporting such policy since it gives them more power. Think about it; if a person comes to be completely dependent upon the government – completely dependent upon liberal Democrats – for his or her existence, then isn’t that person going to be a strong supporter of liberal Democrats? First you make them depend on your programs; then you tell them that if the other guy wins the election, those programs are going away. Then you tell them that without those programs, they’re going to die. What choice do they have but to vote for you?
Yes, it’s a conspiracy theory, but it sure makes a lot of sense.
“Exactly, HisMan. The poor need a hand up, not a hand out. Give them a hand out and they’ll be stuck in poverty forever. Give them a hand up and they’ll break the cycle of poverty.
I support the government giving people a hand up, but I will never support a hand out for anyone other than the most needy among us. And Barack Obama wants to give a hand out to everyone, which is absurd.”
….like what?
For those looking at hand-ups, it’s all about Heifer International though–check it out, it’s one of my favorite charities evar.
“Rae, Hmm, if a destructive thing seems to hit mostly blacks and gays, why not suspect that they may be somehow targeted? Or at least, discourage behavior known to spread the destruction? How about, instead of calling those you don’t agree with nuts, posting some evidence for your view? Maybe just for schitzen giggles, or the sheer novelty of the phenomenon ?!
You know, replacing skewed, twisted, ad hominem hate-spewing with legitimate debate?!
Same for you, ff/voldemort.”
@What a concept!: Um…they *are* nuts. The CIA couldn’t prevent that 9/11 was going to happen much less engineer a virus. Hell, they didn’t even *have* the technology to be able to engineer viruses until at least the mid-80’s. That’s why they’re nuts, because the technology was *not* there in the 1950’s and 1960’s when this allegedly occurred. It was only in the last 5 years that viruses have been fully created synthetically through technology (and it was poliovirus, a very simple virus). HIV is significantly more complicated than poliovirus as it has an envelope and membrane proteins and its own replicative machinery. Poliovirus is literally a protein coat and genetic material. That’s it.
Is that better? I’ve backed up my opinion as to why they’re nuts.
And way to blame the victims. Because you know…they deserve to die from AIDS. *eyeroll*
PIP, have you even read Obama’s health care plan? Good grief, you’re voting for the man. Why should the government help a middle class man like me buy health insurance? Where is that in the Constitution?
Hate to break it to ya John, but there is nothing more absurd than our current health care system.
I like how making sure people get adequate health care is simply a “hand out” that is “absurd.” Way to be compassionate, John, especially considering that some of those receiving this health care would be expecting mothers. You know, those who would consider abortion because they can’t afford the cost of carrying and delivering it.
“Is our system worse than the British or Canadian systems? ”
Well universal health care ultimately cuts health care costs and these systems reflect a generally healthier population than ours.
Also, I highly doubt our system would be based on the Cuban system considering the practically criminal way they treat AIDS patients and that they are a communist society. So, comparing us to Cuba is kind of fruitless.
@PiP: Did you know Sweden has *no* tuberculosis at all?
Really, Rae? Wow!
John,
Not to mention that Obama has redifined the wealthest Americans as those who make $75K or more. Since when is $75K wealthy?
Has anyone done the math for his tax increases. His taxes will kill small busniess owners (who by the way create most of the jobs in the US).
They have a hard enough time paying for health care for their employees already, if Obama taxes them anymore, no one will have health coverage. Stupid. His plan will kill the middle class.
Let’s see him put his money where his mouth is. Let’s see him move out of his big house, stop paying for private schooling for his kids, drive cheaper cars. I want to see him or Hillary give up their material accumulation for the better good of underpriviledged communities. NOT going to happen.
He is a socialist in liberal clothing. He wants to redistribute the wealth in this country. He wants the government to take control of health, drug, oil and energy companies. CRAZY!! He needs to move to Hugo Chavez country. He’d fit right in.
PIP, I have no problem with poor, pregnant women getting health coverage. But Obama wants to give it to me. I don’t want it, and I don’t want other men in my same position to be able to leech off of the government like that.
@PiP: Yup, I learned it in my microbial disease class. I thought that was pretty cool, because they’re healthcare is so good people get treated for it quickly so it doesn’t spread and nobody gets it.
Of course, they don’t have a very large immigrant population, and immigrant populations often have tuberculosis as they come from countries that are poor with bad healthcare.
“But Obama wants to give it to me. I don’t want it, ”
Under Obama’s plan, you won’t be required to have it, but it will be available. So, feel free to not take it. No skin off my back.
“Of course, they don’t have a very large immigrant population,”
LOL it’s just so damn cold!!
My brother visited Finland and he came back with a similar story- that they have free education and healthcare. Of course they have high taxes, but most people there don’t seem to mind.
If you “don’t mind”, then leave and take all your leech friends with you!
Gerry,
That was unnecessary.
That totally rhymed!
Did you know that back in the day, after my dad lost his self-owned business because he had corrupt partners, and we were in bankruptcy and foreclosure, all that jazz..did you know WE had health insurance? WHY you ask?
Because my dad went to work at a COFFEE SHOP so him, his wife, and four little kids could have health insurance. A COFFEE SHOP! A man with a bachelors from Northwestern and a masters from Depaul working at a coffee shop AND WE HAD HEALTH INSURANCE!
Imagine that…somebody working to keep their kids insured…crazy idea I know.
Where there’s a will, there IS a way.
Elizabeth,
You are in the health care field, surely you know how inadequate many people’s insurance is.
Aren’t HMO’s AWESOME?! Our health care system ROCKS!
Hmm, well maybe if the government let more people keep their money instead of taking ridiculous amounts of it for MORE programs when there ARE ALREADY programs out there, people could afford better health insurance. How about that?
See, here’s what I frankly don’t understand about liberals…well pro-choice liberals I will say. They’re all about NOT having the government making judgements about what to do with a woman’s body, and YET, they want the government in their business about everything else..health care, education,etc. News flash: When you make the government take responsibility for your life, the government MAKES your decisions for you! Why? CAUSE THEY CAN! CAUSE THEY’RE PAYING FOR IT!
Elizabeth,
Those programs are actually raising health care costs, and does nothing to curb the abuses that insurance companies are committing.
Um, Rae. You’ve stated why you believe that they are mistaken; but being mistaken, or even ignorant, doesn’t mean one is insane/nuts, etc. Which is a good thing for any and everyone who has ever been mistaken, or misinformed, about anything…
“the government MAKES your decisions for you!”
Obama’s plan offers more of a choice than Hillary’s. If anything conservatives should have less of a problem with it than her’s. You could choose not to have it (though there would really be no excuse). You could choose to go to private companies instead of the public system.
Wait…do you think we should abolish the public education system? Just make it all private schools?
What programs pip? HMO’s? Did you read any of my comments about how if the gov. let people keep more of their money they could afford good health insurance? How about that? You don’t think that’s a good idea?
P.S. I’m really sorry I couldn’t get something together to hang out while you were here…it was my week of midterms and timing was bad for me!! I really wanted to hang out though!
Rae, I heard a similar theory about the polio vaccine, but it wasn’t about a conspiracy to spread it, rather it was an accident.
This is the theory I heard:
Two men were in a sort of race to become the first to come up with a polio vaccine (for the glory, no doubt). One went to Russia and started testing in safe ways, the other went to Africa. The one in Africa used monkey kidneys (or livers, I forgot) for the vaccination. Which worked, but some of the monkeys had SIV so when the vaccine was administered and tested on the African people (available test subjects), the strain of SIV was present and infected some of the Africans with HIV.
Supposedly this is why Africa has such a large population of HIV/AIDS. And the reason it became a “gay” disease is because it was spread mostly through the underground gay sex communities. That is a fact, though I don’t recall anything about the government forcefully pushing HIV on gay people or Africans.
Also fact: HIV is more easily spread through gay male communities because the HIV virus is highest in semen and blood. For that reason, it’s harder for women to spread HIV. Not impossible, but harder. Though the media is hesitant to say that because that would be blaming men for spreading the disease, and we all know it’s the woman’s fault for opening her legs, right? Hehe.
Wait…do you think we should abolish the public education system? Just make it all private schools?
No…but I do think the gov. has royally screwed up the public education system. The government really doesn’t know how to do much..I mean look at the post office..sucks..I just don’t think getting the government involved in stuff is the answer..they’re idiots. all of them.
Elizabeth, I’ve heard there are two major distinctions between Democrats and Republicans.
Democrats want to stick their hands in your wallet, while Republicans want to stick their hands in your head (and regulate your morals).
My father’s a libertarian, and they have some pretty interesting ideas about keeping the government’s hands out of religion and pocketbooks, some ideas which I think we could use more of.
I think we have a lot of socially-nice-looking programs that are a big waste of money and should be abolished or reformed so that they actually help people. I also think we shouldn’t try to regulate moral beliefs. (I think we’re civilized enough to realize what’s good for the society and what’s not, don’t we?)
I think the one reason universal health care should be provided is so that we don’t disenfranchise those in poverty, and those who aren’t Medicare eligible but still don’t make enough to afford insurance.
For example, after I graduated from college I lost all the medical insurance I had, so my asthma medication went from about $70 to $280. It’s not BC. It’s to help me breathe. But I couldn’t afford it and had difficulty working, spending time outside (cold weather exacerbates the situation), being around my pet cats, and well… just living my life. That’s why I’m a fan of health care, because I’m not stupid enough to think everyone is privileged.
Got links? Show evidence of this, please.
“Um, Rae. You’ve stated why you believe that they are mistaken; but being mistaken, or even ignorant, doesn’t mean one is insane/nuts, etc. Which is a good thing for any and everyone who has ever been mistaken, or misinformed, about anything…”
@What a concept: No see, here’s the problem, when I tell those people that they are mistaken/flat wrong about that “theory” they deny it, say I’m just another brain-washed automaton and put their fingers in their ears and go “lalalalalalalalalalalalalala”.
The willful ignorance and obsession with an incorrect “conspiracy” theory pretty much tells me either the person is not exactly mentally stable if they can’t handle facts.
I made no such comparison. I asked if you thought their system was to be emulated.
That’s why I’m a fan of health care, because I’m not stupid enough to think everyone is privileged.
Is that what you believe I think? Uh, I don’t.
Like I’ve said, maybe if the government let poor people keep more of their money instead of taking it all for programs that don’t really work, they could afford better health insurance.
Crazy idea, I know.
PIP, I actually meant to continue, but hit the POST button. You did, in fact, make the assertion that Cuba’s system was unattractive, but for the wrong reasons. That they treat AIDS/HIV carriers as you say they do is reprehensible, but that is not enough of a reason to reject their system. I think you were in the right neighborhood when you alluded to their system as a communist one — aye, there’s the rub, PIP. It is a socialist, collectivist system. That is the same problem with the systems in the countries I mentioned earlier. And I know from personal experience that health care in Mexico, for the average [read: destitute] Mexican is deplorable.
Edyt,
You are kidding right? Libertarianism is good in theory but would be a DISASTER in policy. The quality of life here would diminish drastically if we suddenly pulled public funding for things like adequate health care, roads, and education.
Elizabeth,
Mistakes can be fixed when the people complain to the government, but if we leave everything to the business economy, grave abuses will likely never be fixed.
And don’t worry, I totally know how it is ;)
On one of your breaks you have to come to St. Louis–you can always take our couch- and it is super comfortable. I literally can’t wake up sometimes, and end up taking 3 or 4 hour naps ;)
In France, women get up to 3 years paid maternity leave and free childcare.
DEPLORABLE.
Pip,
I’m not saying the government isn’t needed AT ALL. Of course I know they are needed for regulation purposes and things of that nature.
My aunt Kay lives in Marshfield, MO…I am not sure how many hours away from St. Louis that is. Do you know?
Elizabeth, most of those programs are paid for by the super wealthy, not the poor.
I believe the solution is more to examine these programs in detail, examine where money is wasted and re-allocate to good programs.
For example, the CeaseFire program in Chicago could receive more funding, especially since youth violence is going up. They were proven effective in several communities, and since the funding was cut, they have been struggling to do simple outreach.
Of course, that’s not a federal program, and I think all areas of federal government are in need of a good cleaning out.
PiP, haha, yes I know. I’m not a libertarian, but my father is. I said I think they have some good ideas, not that I think we should embrace all of them.
“I made no such comparison. I asked if you thought their system was to be emulated.”
I thought I made it a clear “no, of course not, and we aren’t remotely considering doing such” but if that didn’t come across then I apologize.
“It is a socialist, collectivist system.”
By using the AIDS example I was making the point about the necessity to include quality of life in the system when providing health care; and I said it was communistic because the people there have no sense of choice in where they want their health care to come from. As Americans we can have a say in the way our health care is dictated and at this point it has quite a capitalist bent. There is no reason why our system can’t be unique and fit with the wants and needs of the American people.
What programs pip? HMO’s? Did you read any of my comments about how if the gov. let people keep more of their money they could afford good health insurance? How about that? You don’t think that’s a good idea?
Posted by: Elizabeth at March 29, 2008 4:56 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Have you ever worked?
Have you ever been a taxpayer?
Have you ever paid for your own health insurance or the health insurance for your child?
“In France, women get up to 3 years paid maternity leave and free childcare.
DEPLORABLE.”
LOL
” not that I think we should embrace all of them.”
I agree. In some areas I don’t think the government should have much control but in others I think it is absolutely necessary to protect the quality of life of its people.
Hm…that’s pretty far away Elizabeth, it’s not too far from springfield which is sorta across the state. BUT it’s on your way if you are coming from the Chicago area! Come on by!
The minute health care is put into government hands, it will be the beginning of health care rationing, full implementation of the “futile care” theory, ever-changing definitions of “brain death” and “cardiac death” to facilitate the harvesting of organs from the living, forced abortion for a wider and wider range of prenatally diagnosed conditions, and active euthanasia, all in the name of “what’s best for society”.
Yep. Sounds like a caring system to me. Where do I sign up?
ever-changing definitions of “brain death” and “cardiac death” to facilitate the harvesting of organs from the living, forced abortion for a wider and wider range of prenatally diagnosed conditions, and active euthanasia, all in the name of “what’s best for society”.
Give me proof that this will happen or is happening at all in capitalist systems.
I believe the solution is more to examine these programs in detail, examine where money is wasted and re-allocate to good programs.
I do agree, Edyt.
PJ Mama — yet you are advocating for abortion to become illegal, which IS putting health care in the hands of the government!
Requiring vaccinations for children and those traveling abroad IS putting health care in the hands of the government!
Also, health insurance companies pay off government officials to make sure legislation is enacted in their financial consideration … so whose hands is health care really in?
Have you ever worked?
Have you ever been a taxpayer?
Have you ever paid for your own health insurance or the health insurance for your child?
I have worked. I have been a taxpayer…and I am aware how much health insurance for my child costs. Geez, FF…back for 5 minutes…and that’s all you got?
Also, I think issues like these need to be fixed before we go around forcing women to have children.
Hey, FF, how about an actual RESPONSE to any of my actual comments.
I know you can’t deal without the personal attacks, but maybe you could pretend to grow up for a couple minutes and actually form a sensible answer.
I sure won’t hold my breath though.
You’ve never supported yourself or your child, but you have all kinds of fabulous suggestions – you know – for the poooooor.
If you ever achieve a nodding acquaintance with real life, DO let us know.
No, no need for you to apologize, PIP. You did make the point clear although my response sounds like I’m asking the question again.
What do you been by ‘dictated’? What do you mean by ‘Capitalist bent’? Do you mean it is still a free-market commodity. Should it not be?
That post above @ 6:05 is mine.
Lamont Cranston
Oh look, FF avoids the question AGAIN. :gasp:
That’s shocking.
That’s all you’ve got really..some “witty” one-liners.
But I am glad you called my suggestions fabulous. :) I already knew they were. Your validationg was nice.
“What do you been by ‘dictated’? What do you mean by ‘Capitalist bent’?”
Well what I mean is that in a communist country the government decides one way or another and there is nothing the people can do about it, but since we in America enjoy a capitalist system we have the opportunity to make a program that is uniquely ours in the best interest of our people collectively and as individuals. And that usually involves more freedom to dictate the way we have our healthcare- whether we want to go to private or public sector for example, which companies we want to invest in, and even under some plans whether we want to risk it at all or not.
Does that make sense?
Lamont, I’m going to head out for the evening, but I will definitely respond to your posts later, okay?
Have a nice evening, everyone!
Here’s what I think we should do for healthcare.
I think all preventative care (ie vaccinations, regular check-ups, etc) should be free/government subsidized because if people are able to go to normal check-ups, problems can be caught early when they’re easily and cheaply treated as opposed to later when they become expensive and difficult to treat. It’s cheaper for the government to pay for preventative healthcare than overall healthcare. If people are prevented from getting disablingly ill, productivity won’t be lost and money won’t get flushed down the toilet.
Just to make my position clear:
-Government taking care of the poor = Good
-Government taking care of lazy people who just don’t want to work = Bad
-Government taking care of people who have enough money to buy their own health care but would rather spend that money on “things” = Bad
PIP, thanks for your reply — I understand your position. Keep in mind that it truly is we the people who dictate, not the people we cast a vote for. They are supposed to be our will, not our masters.
Have a great evening, PIP.
John, 6:30 p.m.
Agreed!
Rae –
Those who cannot afford vaccinations, dental check-ups, antibotics, etc. can get it free or almost free from the county health department. And most county health departments don’t ask whether someone is legal or illegal. At my kids schools, they even give kids floride rinse every monday (free), and our schools now require proof of dental check ups like vaccinations.
I agree that children should be covered, that’s why there is SCHIP and state funded healthcare for children. SCHIP should ONLY cover children, not adults! I think that if someone is laid off and is actively looking for a job, they should have help during the gap in coverage. But those who chose not to work or are here illegally should not be covered. We would save millions of dollars if we stopped covering illegals. But that is a whole different apple.
Hi Elizabeth –
How is school going? How is that beautiful daughter of yours?
Tara-
School is going fast Thank God! Finals week is May 15 and I can’t WAIT to be done with this semester…I took max. credits so it has been wayyy more work than last semester, but if I can get all my classes in, I’ll do what it takes. But I CAN NOT WAIT til this speech class is over with. Public speaking classes annoy me, even though I used to be a musical theatre major. Public speaking is a different ball of wax for me and NOT as fun, but you do what you gotta do!
And little miss Gabriella is a lovely little girl. She is talking a lot more or maybe I’m just understanding her more…I don’t know which. ;) This week has been one of those weeks where she doesn’t listen AT ALL..but I’m sure next week she’ll be an angel. (She doesn’t want me to get too comfortable obviously) Other then that, we are just ANXIOUSLY anticipating some sort of warm weather.
How is everything going with you?
Elizabeth,
My final exam is on May 12th. It has been interesting being back in school, but I’ve really enjoyed it. I do my homework with my 1st and 3rd grader. They think it’s funny that Mom has homework. But we have lots of study time, since in my class we go through a little more then a chapter a week (roughly 75-90 pages of reading). And we have a exam every two weeks.
My 6 year old just took 1st place in her first ice skating competition. She is getting ready for another one in May. She loves it.
I agree, I am sooo sick of winter. I want to let my toes see some SUN!!:))
@Tara: Really? I suppose part of the problem is that people don’t know about these programs.
Perhaps I wasn’t clear in what I was talking about, I believe everybody should get preventative health care (ie yearly doctor check-ups), adult and children. If you’re an adult and you work at McDonald’s or Walmart, you cannot afford health insurance. People who are uninsured go to Emergency Rooms to get health care because ERs cannot turn people away. ER visits are *very* expensive. Usually, people who wait to go to the ER because they don’t have insurance only go when they’re very ill which also adds extra cost on taxpayers on top of the ER bill.
By having free preventative health care, you can get problems discovered and taken care of *sooner* rather than later. Especially things like diabetes, which are often not caught until you are really, really sick and require more expensive treatment (ie not realizing you have poor circulation due to diabetes and then not learning of a staph infection in your foot until it’s too late and you have to have the foot hacked off to save your leg where as had you been able to go to the doctor *sooner* all that would be necessary would be 2 weeks of penicillin but now instead you have a surgery, physical therapy etc all on the taxpayer’s dime).
Pardon the long sentence above. :)
It has been interesting being back in school, but I’ve really enjoyed it. I do my homework with my 1st and 3rd grader.
awww that is too cute!!! I can only do homework during nap and bedtime!
and reading for class…ick don’t even get me started. I only read my chapters for biology because that’s relevant to my whole nursing career. Speech and english…I only read when I need to know something for a paper or speech other then that, I just don’t have time!!!
But I’ve got straight A’s so far, so I’m doing something right!
And your 6-year old took first place? She must be GREAT!!!! I can’t wait til Gabriella wants to do stuff like that so I can support her in whatever it is! I got really excited about her easter-egg finding ability this year so I imagine I will be the loudest cheering mother during whatever extra-cirricular she decides to do.
Rae –
Long sentances are great, my kids give them to me everyday!!:)
Where I live, we have a clinic called the VNA, and they are nurses and doctors who treat patients who have poor insurance coverage or no coverage at all. They turn no one away even illegals. The doctors and nurses that they work with, either don’t charge at all or its based on what a person can afford. They see people for eye glassses to pediatricians. This is a great idea, and I wish more doctors and nurses would do something similar.
I agree that preventative care is the way to go. Like I said, I don’t mind the gov’t helping if it is legitimate, such as being laid off from a job. It should be part of Unemployment Benefits.
My understanding is that WalMart nad McDonalds has insurance if you work FT, I’m not sure about PT.
I’ve been in bed for two weeks with pneumonia, so I’m going to say good night. Hope you have a great evening.
Elizabeth,
Good for you. I know how hard it is to study with little ones. My yongest is 4 and when I study, that’s when she wants to play to most:)
Keep it up. I decided to get a new degree. I’m going from Musical Theater to Psychology. There were plenty of people I knew in theater that could have used a therapist:) I have the highest grade in the class. I have to show you young pups that those in our mid 30’s can do it to!
Have a great night.
Lamont:
I’m involved with the Phoenix Dream Center. The church I go to, Phoenix First Assembly and Pastor Tommy Barnett, started the first Dream Center in LA’s Echo Park at the old Queen of Angels Hospital about 12 years ago. His son Matthew Barnett is the Pastor of the LA Dream Center and Angelus Temple. There are now over 200 Dream Centers around the world.
The vast majority of the residents of the Dream Center are men and women who were former drug addicts, prostitutes, alcoholics, etc. Some were once rich and famous and lost everything, some never had anything. This is a pure example of how to help the poor, be they emotionally, spiritually or physically poor.
First, they are told about God’s love and how He forgives them of ALL their sin. They’re then taught to let go of their past completely because God has. They are then taught that God has always had a wonderful plan for them and has planted a Dream in their hearts. They are then discipled for a year to 18 months where they are expected to study and work. The absolute miracles that come out of that place are amazing.
My friend Wayne Reece is producing a movie about the Dream Center. I’ll let you know more when it is released. This is how God expects us to help the poor, to help them realize that in God they are wealthy beyond imagination and through Him they can do and accomplish anything despite their circumstance.
The travesty fostered on my black brothers and sisters by the Democratic Party is that they are told that it is someone else’s fault they are where they are without telling them how to escape that trap.
The DEMOCRATS use black people and this is a form of utter hatred. Blacks that believe the lie that Democrats care are like prisoners whose captor gives them a false sense of security by providing just enough to survive on. When the jail door is opened thay choose to stay in their cells because they are afraid to let go of that one secure place they have, the cell that imprisons them but also keeps them from experiencing the life of greatness God has created them for.
Perhaps this election will do one thing and that is help black Americans see how the Democrats really have no interest in truly helping them out of their situation permanently but only in keeping them in bondage so Democrats can maintain power.
Obama is not your friend. Anyone who aligns himself with the likes of Pastor Wright, whose value system is in direct opposition to the Word of God, cannot be anyone’s friend, black or white.
John, here’s my take:
-Government taking care of the poor = Bad
-Government taking care of lazy people who just don’t want to work = Bad
-Government taking care of people who have enough money to buy their own health care but would rather spend that money on “things” = None of their business.
-Church taking care of the poor = Good
-Church taking care of lazy people who just don’t want to work = Bad
-Church teaching people who have enough money to buy their own health care but would rather spend that money on “things” that this is bad = Good
Government providing for the national defense and domestic tranquility (military and police) = good.
Please study the constitution. Welfare and income taxes as well as the vast majority of government programs are uncontitutional.
“The DEMOCRATS use black people and this is a form of utter hatred. Blacks that believe the lie that Democrats care are like prisoners whose captor gives them a false sense of security by providing just enough to survive on. When the jail door is opened thay choose to stay in their cells because they are afraid to let go of that one secure place they have, the cell that imprisons them but also keeps them from experiencing the life of greatness God has created them for.”
Hisman that made me feel really good for reasons I can’t explain. Now I feel dirty.
“-Government taking care of the poor = Bad”
Well why are they poor? Did they loose an arm at work and don’t have a job now? Then we should take care of them. If you believe in survival of the fittest then you should believe in abortion because yeah a grown woman could totally take on a fetus.
Well, hm, what “poor” are you referring to?
“so I can support her in whatever it is!”
I hope *it* is emu’s!!!! Emu farmers, FTW!
HisMan,
While I agree with some of your statements, Jesus commanded us to take care of the poor, orphaned, widowed. He didn’t put disclaimers on why they are poor, orphaned and widowed, he just told us to take care of them.
Sometimes people who are laid off can’t find a job right away. It is not their fault that the company they are working for cut jobs. So Unempolyment is a good idea, but it should offer some healthcare benefits. This is where government has a responsibility.
Some people want to work but don’t have the skills, why aren’t there more apprenticeship oportunities available. This is one area where if money was given would have a real positive outcome. Unfortunately, this type of skills development is going the way of the dinosaurs.
Unfortunately, most Democrats don’t like Faith Based anything, so Churches can’t get more funds to help more people in their local community. This is where we should be pouring our money, into local communities, not Washington.
My church is part of a group of churches that take turns housing and feeding the homeless. On any given night we house and 100 people. When we build our new addition, we built it with showers and lockers so that those who came could have a shower. We cook for them, and stay with them. The next day we feed them breakfast. This is just one area where we help our community. I don’t mind giving my money to these programs, bc I know the money goes directly to them.
Giving money to the government doesn’t always translate into money going where it needs. To much red tape.
Great sermon Rev, now what did you say? I never heard a thing.
I heard an interesting interview of a Harlem minister who has spoken out very forcefully against Obama. While I do not like or agree with the minister’s incendiary comments concerning Obama’s parentage, I have to agree he brought up some valid points.
Obama has claimed Rev. Wright as his spititual advisor and mentor. He also sat in the pews for 20 years listening to Wright. Now, Obama claims he’s totally ignorant of Wright’s viewpoints and apparently spent little time listening to his pastor. The Harlem minister said he would consider it a huge insult if his congregation were so clueless concerning him. He asked if anything is more insulting to a clergymen of any faith than congregations who have no idea what they said or believed.
He also charged that Obama is throwing his minister, a man he describes as a longtime mentor and spiritual advisor, under the bus to further his own political ambitions.
Some very interesting points here I never thought of.
Tara,
Our community, churches included, also offers many services to those in need. These are the types of groups and organizations you can count on to get things done, and who I am only too happy to donate to. There is no shortage of volunteers.
The “War on Poverty” cost into the trillions, and did not eliminate poverty. These private and community organizations can do so much more with less money, expediture, and waste.
Reverend, by far the best sermon I haven’t heard in 20 years.
LOL Mary!
I just refer to him as BO.
BO has got to go!!
Reverend, by far the best sermon I haven’t heard in 20 years.
:: laughing ::
Love it, Mary.
“A friend of a friend of a friend has this time share in Borneo, four weeks, come on Rev., it’ll be a nice get-away……”
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