Associated Press story on Obama/Born Alive
From the Associated Press, today:
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… “For people to suggest that I and the IL Medical Society, so IL’s doctors, were somehow in favor of withholding lifesaving support from an infant born alive is ridiculous,” he recently told the Christian Broadcasting Network. “It defies common sense and it defies imagination.”
But as a state senator, Obama repeatedly voted against that requirement and other restrictions on what opponents label “born alive” abortions. Obama says he opposed it only because of technical language that might have interfered with a woman’s right to choose….
Abortion opponents say Obama’s position amounts to an endorsement of killing babies, and that he has lied about it….
“Barack Obama is so radically pro-abortion he supports infanticide,” Jill Stanek, an IL nurse and anti-abortion activist, wrote on her Web site.
“Justifying the killing of newborn babies is deeply troubling,” former Sen. Rick Santorum wrote in a column early this year.
Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor called such statements “distortions and lies.”…
The dispute revolves around what happens in rare circumstances when a fetus survives an abortion….
Abortion rights supporters, led by Obama, opposed the IL legislation, arguing that it was designed to interfere with abortion.
Over the years, Obama repeatedly has said the IL measure was different from the federal version in a key way – it lacked language spelling out that it would not interfere with abortion rights. If the IL legislation had that provision, he said, he would have backed it.
Now, however, abortion opponents have pointed out that Obama opposed a version of the bill that included a “neutrality clause.” The bill was killed in 2003 by a state Senate committee Obama chaired.
“He needs to explain misleading people. He needs to explain why he apparently covered that up,” Stanek said.
The Obama campaign’s explanation is that even if the federal and state versions had identical language, they would have very different consequences.
Read the entire article below.
The reporter, Chris Wills, attempted to spin this story into one portraying Obama as an abortion moderate by juxtaposing earlier Clinton campaign complaints that he wasn’t pro-abortion enough with our documented accusations he is so pro-abortion he supports infanticide.
Also note Wills drew in the obfuscations I told you by which the other side is attempting to muddy matters.
Finally, the last paragraph I quoted is bunk. Obama said on the Senate floor he opposed Born Alive because he thought it was “unconstitutional.”
Associated Press
Obama faces new criticism on abortion
By Christopher Wills
August 20, 2008
SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (AP) — Painted during the Democratic primary as weak on abortion rights, Barack Obama is now being portrayed as an extremist who literally supports killing babies.
Both portraits are based on his handling of a related issue in the Illinois Senate, and Obama insists they distort his position.
The Democratic presidential candidate says he firmly supports a woman’s right to choose but can accept some restrictions — including a requirement that medical care be provided for any fetus that survives an abortion.
“For people to suggest that I and the Illinois Medical Society, so Illinois’ doctors, were somehow in favor of withholding lifesaving support from an infant born alive is ridiculous,” he recently told the Christian Broadcasting Network. “It defies commonsense and it defies imagination.”
But as a state senator, Obama repeatedly voted against that requirement and other restrictions on what opponents label “born alive” abortions. Obama says he opposed it only because of technical language that might have interfered with a woman’s right to choose.
Hillary Rodham Clinton argued during the primary that Obama hadn’t been vocal enough in his opposition to this and other abortion legislation, and questioned his commitment to protecting women’s access to abortion.
Abortion opponents say Obama’s position amounts to an endorsement of killing babies, and that he has lied about it.
“Barack Obama is so radically pro-abortion he supports infanticide,” Jill Stanek, an Illinois nurse and anti-abortion activist, wrote on her Web site.
“Justifying the killing of newborn babies is deeply troubling,” former Sen. Rick Santorum wrote in a column early this year.
Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor called such statements “distortions and lies.”
“The suggestion that Obama — the proud father of two little girls — and others who opposed these bills supported infanticide is deeply offensive and insulting,” Vietor said in a statement Tuesday.
The dispute revolves around what happens in rare circumstances when a fetus survives an abortion.
Illinois abortion opponents repeatedly tried to pass laws defining any fetus that survives an abortion as a person with full rights, requiring a second doctor be present to provide medical care and creating a right to sue on behalf of the infant.
They argued the U.S. Senate had voted 98-0 for a federal Born Alive Infant Protection Act that defined such a fetus as a person, so Illinois lawmakers should have no trouble doing the same thing. President Bush signed the legislation in 2002.
Abortion rights supporters, led by Obama, opposed the Illinois legislation, arguing that it was designed to interfere with abortion.
Over the years, Obama repeatedly has said the Illinois measure was different from the federal version in a key way — it lacked language spelling out that it would not interfere with abortion rights. If the Illinois legislation had that provision, he said, he would have backed it.
Now, however, abortion opponents have pointed out that Obama opposed a version of the bill that included a “neutrality clause.” The bill was killed in 2003 by a state Senate committee Obama chaired.
“He needs to explain misleading people. He needs to explain why he apparently covered that up,” Stanek said.
The Obama campaign’s explanation is that even if the federal and state versions had identical language, they would have very different consequences.
The federal government doesn’t have a law regulating abortion, so Congress could pass a “born alive” measure without actually affecting anything. But Illinois has an abortion law that would be muddled by changing the definition of a person with full rights, the campaign says.
Pam Sutherland, president of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, backs Obama’s position. The federal law essentially does nothing, she said, but the same language in Illinois would complicate state abortion laws.
Sutherland noted that Illinois eventually adopted a version of the “born alive” law but only after including a section that specifically states abortion rules would not be affected.
“They’re being very dishonest about their depiction of what happened with that bill — or just clueless,” she said of abortion opponents.
Sutherland also scoffed at the idea that opposing the legislation is the equivalent of supporting infanticide. “It’s ridiculous. It’s ridiculous,” she said.
Now focused on the general election, Obama wants to show that he may disagree with abortion opponents, but understands and respects their views.
The Democratic Party platform is being revised to bolster the section on reducing the need for abortion. The version awaiting approval at the Democratic convention in Denver says the party supports efforts to prevent unwanted pregnancies and understands the need to help women who choose to have children.
Democratic officials also gave a convention speaking slot to Sen. Bob Casey Jr., D-Pa., who opposes abortion rights.



Jill:
How about a flow chart showing the timeline so that there is no way Obama can obscure the truth?
That will clinch it for everyone, even Hal.
“The Democratic Party platform is being revised to bolster the section on reducing the need for abortion.”
What an interesting twist. Did they clue Obama in on this decision? He has stated the first thing he will do if elected is to pass FOCA.
Seems like they are at an impass. My head is spinning.
Once it wouldn’t pass “constitutional muster.” Another time it didn’t have the “federal language.” Today it’s “different consequences.”
If he’s going to stick by this new invented excuse, he’s going to have to explain what the different consequences are. (Not that any reporter would ever know to ask.)
And here’s the lesson: everytime you invent a new answer, the issue doesn’t go away because you only stir up new questions.
I don’t think that would cinch for people like Hal. To these people, abortion is a sneeze in life – like removing a toenail. NOTHING is going to convince them that this man is nasty.
HisMan: think about it from a theological point of view. Because many do not have the “light of faith” in their souls, their intellect is also darkened. Truth is harder to come by….
As I’m sure I mentioned before, if people (news media) are noticing, you must be doing something right. Keep stirring the hornets nest. I’m doing what I can to convince friends of mine that Obama is a politician trying to find which way the wind is blowing. That’s why he keeps changing his mind/tune. We’ve got a Santa Ana blowing.
Jill, I thought you were slacking yesterday with no Obama stories, and then you came back swinging today with no fewer than six, a new record! It seems that no trivia relating to your “Obama kills babies” talking point is too insignificant to rate a posting. With such an obsession, what on Earth are you going to do with yourself if Obama wins?
And not to prick a hole in your balloon or anything, but aside from one vote three years ago on a bill that was insignificant in that it unnecessarily duplicated federal legislation, where is your evidence that Obama has EVER done ANYTHING to kill a baby or prevent one whose life was threatened from being saved? I’m not talking about abortion here, because you are not talking about abortion here…we are talking about babies outside the womb, and guess what: George Bush and his loyal supporter John McCain have more unnecessary blood on their hands, blood of living people, children, and babies, outside the womb, than any Americans since the Vietnam era. THAT makes me ill, unlike your phony controversy that you keep pushing because you know you can’t win on the abortion issue itself.
Well put, Ray. Glad I saw your comment before it is deleted. This “issue” will never develop any traction outside of the hard-core Obama haters, including Faux News.
Since “infanticide” and 24/7 hatred for Obama is now the sole subject of this website, I will move on to something more interesting.
Yes, PPC and Ray, God forbid Obama have to tell the truth about what he really voted FOR.
It’s really interesting to watch people squirm over telling the truth on this issue, including Obama.
I would seriously respect him more as person if he would just tell the TRUTH. But that would cost him votes. Sorry, guys, the illusion that Obama is such a “different” politician and is going to “change” politics for you is a farce, as are most of the things that come out of Obama’s mouth.
Ray,
George Bush and his loyal supporter John McCain have more unnecessary blood on their hands, blood of living people, children, and babies, outside the womb, than any Americans since the Vietnam era.
Really?
If you consider that there has been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq
theatre of operations during the last 22 months, and a total of 2,112
deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 10,000 soldiers.
*
The firearm death rate in Washington D.C. is 80.6 per 10,000 for the same
period.
*
That means that you are about 25% more likely to be shot and killed in
the U.S. Capitol, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the
nation, than you are in Iraq.
*
Conclusion: The U.S. should pull out of Washington immediately.
:bows down to MK:
I have missed you.
And another thing, I mean really, who are you MORE worried about? Grown humans with survival skills and LARGE amounts of weapons or babies who can’t even feed themselves? Who’s got a higher likelihood of survival?
George Bush and his loyal supporter John McCain have more unnecessary blood on their hands, blood of living people, children, and babies, outside the womb, than any Americans since the Vietnam era. THAT makes me ill,
Posted by: Ray at August 20, 2008 9:44 AM
Ray, in case you didn’t notice, almost every senator and congressman in the US voted to authorize the war in Iraq. And if Obama had his way we would have pulled out two years ago and left THOUSANDS and T%HOUSANDS more men, women, and children to die in bloody civil war. And what about the ones who were saved by getting rid of Saddam, do they not count? And maybe you can explain just how any of that makes the 45,000,000 babies killed legally in the US since RoeVWade somehow more acceptable.
Oh yeah, and we would have likely been attacked here in the US again if we hadn’t fought Al Queada in Iraq, but those American lives wouldn’t have meant anything either to you Ray.
Congratulations to Jill on hitting a home run. The AP has volunteered to commit slow suicide in defense of Obama. All of mainstream media is taking a huge financial hit for Barack this year. Hoping their next fiscal year is just as “successful”.
Two birds with one stone, perhaps??
Ray, you’re repeating the same boring liberal stuff, attempting to justify your propensity for killing by citing past wars. But you have no command of the statistics. Those of us who really do math know that the liberals out pace conservatives massively in war mongering and genocide, as well as the abortion method of slaughter, and subsequent cannibalism of the remains.
Maybe you had better think about starting your own media outlet. The rest of the liberal media is circling the drain.
If Obama wins???
We had so much to laugh at with Clinton. He provided abundant material for parody songs and the National Enquirer. Obamanator is a ‘gaffe machine’, with no ability to laugh at himself.
We’ll drive him nutz poking fun at him.
After the middle class relearns that rising taxes kills their income, the conservatives will make a comeback. It’s a cycle.
Glenn Beck has a great new Obama theme. It’s done to the Russian National Anthem melody — Hail to the Messiah – Obama. I laughed all the way home from work.
mk @ 10:11, YOU are the BEST!
“Glenn Beck has a great new Obama theme. It’s done to the Russian National Anthem melody — Hail to the Messiah – Obama. I laughed all the way home from work.”
Oh! KB, do you have a link? The Soviet National Anthem is the greatest national anthem EVER! Nothing else even comes close to touching it. All other National Anthems don’t even deserve to be called National Anthems compared to the Soviet one.
Well gosh, it’s me again…the newbie asking questions and making uninformed suggestions. (laughing at self ha ha)
How about this?
Stanek and Obama, toe to toe, documents handy to display on the tube, for ALL to see.
Inquiring minds and those on the political fence would FINALLY see the truth.
(I’m betting on Stanek!!!!!!!)
Ray and PPC:
Your phobias regarding Obama not being elected are overshadowed only by your willingness to be decieved by Obama spinmeisters.
He lied about his vote and as Elizabeth nails it on the head, he should just tell the truth about it instead of inventing more obfuscations and feeding the fire. Liberals never learn because well, they are Liberals and believing lies is part of their job description.
While you’re blaming George Bush for the Iraq war which has saved innumerable Iraqi lives and misery, don’t forget to blame the entire Viet Nam War on McCain even though John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Baines Johnson screwed that one up royally only to be baled out by one Richard M. Nixon, who because of his predecessor’s total incompetence, was forced to retreat in defeat.
And let’s not forget Ronald Reagan who singlehandedley defeated the Soviet Union without firing a shot.
By wanting a wimp like Obama, a mere schoolboy who can’t even stand up to Hillary Clinton or the likes of Putin and Ahmadinejad, you are inviting the likelihood of war. Liberals don;t understand the tyrants only understand one thing; superior strength.
I’ll take McCain over Softbama any day.
Senator Obama – Is birth a viable form of abortion?
“While you’re blaming George Bush for the Iraq war which has saved innumerable Iraqi lives. . .”
No HisMan, you connected the dots for us the other day, it’s not Bush but God who led us to this war becuase he’s mad about abortion in the U.S. Get your dillusions straight.
While you’re blaming George Bush for the Iraq war which has saved innumerable Iraqi lives…
Which of the 86,661-94,557 DOCUMENTED Iraqi civilian casualties of Bush’s war are you referring to when you talk about saved lives, HisMan? And those are just the documented ones. Estimates using accepted statistical analysis techniques run much, much higher.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
Just a Somebody,
I have often wondered myself if Obama would have the testosterone to join Jill on the same stage face-to-face and debate this mess for all the world to see that something’s going DOWN.
Gosh, Ray, considering that you are convinced that the world’s population is overmaxed, 86,661-94,557 less members of humanity should help to ease your anxiety.
Ray,
Those 86,000,000 over six years were killed by Bush or American soldiers? Or are we now responsible for EVERYONE in Iraq’s behavior? How many were killed by Hussein before we got there????
You break it, you own it.
–Colin Powell
You break it, you run away from it.
Obama 2007
Everytime we open the morning paper we are seeing Obama aghast over this or that followed by his huffing and puffing incredulous that someone would question his sincerity. Well, is it any wonder people would be asking questions given his association with a cast of characters and now his deliberate misrepresentations of the Born Alive Act?
Obviously, Obama’s tact is “the best defense is a strong offense.” But when he tries that it sounds wimpy–i.e complaints about McCain is being negative etc. Actually, Obama sounds like a scold.
New York Times article on Obama/Born Alive
Read entire article on page 2. Note again, as I noted on the Associated Press article and in my talking points post, Obama surrogates are attempting to mash reasons – particularly Born Alive’s companion bills – into his new excuse…
Hal and Ray and other Masters of Obfuscation and Imcomplete Thought Processees:
I never said that war did not result in the killing of innocent people. And I do not like that either.
However, history shows that running in defeat from evil often ends up in much, much worse results than confronting it and defeating it. A perfect example would be what happened in Cambodia after we cowardly left Viet Nam. 2,000,000 to 4,000,000 people were killed by the Pol Pot regime as a result. Remember, good seeks to end evil, evil seeks to promote evil.
The difference is that in a just war innocent people are not specifically and intentionally targeted for murder by a state sanctioned decree, law or action as they are in legalized abortion, but rather, are killed as a result of the consequences of war.
Somehow you try to make the case the George Bush wanted all these innocent Iraqis killed. Then why the surge and the resulting drop in violence? Why didn’t we keep just bombing the hell out of Iraq until we took out every civilian so we could take over the country and it’s oil. Your premise is ridiculous and illogical and the results are proof of this.
Contrast this to state sanctioned and legalzaied acts of abortion which have resulted in the deaths of over 50,000,000 babies in the womb, the killing of which has “saved” few lives. In fact, the destruction abortion has reaped is actually incalculable.
And Hal, your tiring efforts at blaming God, really don’t affect me one bit. However, your self defilement by your own words is evident. And yes, 9/11 was a shot across the bough regarding this country’s abortion stance.
If you really wanted war to stop you would work to end the destruction of all human life, the born and the unborn.
However, this is really not about abortion is it or right and wrong? This is about holding onto a power structure where morals are made of no effect. Your efforts will end in failure.
mk@ 10:11 am and Elizabeth@ 10:17 am — excellent!!!
Ray, that body count includes Iraqi military. The majority of those killed are men, the numbers of women and children are very low. You can blame the cowardly terrorists who hide among the civilian population for those women and children who die. My husband is in Iraq and he has repeatedly stated that the U.S. Military bends over backwards to avoid civilian casualties.
It seems that the more prolifers try to focus on the issue of Obama’s lying for years about his votes against a bill to prevent infanticide, the more proaborts on this forum try to deflect and distract.
Ray and PPC, nothing in your posts comes close to addressing the central question that Obama and his minions are avoiding like the black plague: Why is he continuing to lie about his votes?
And why can’t you or his other devoted followers face up to that question?
Given the last 7 years of scandals and lies, I’m impressed at the outrage you guys muster up over one alleged lie by Obama. Remember the forged document trying to connect Iraq to 9/11? The fire of the US Attorneys? Valerie Plame lies (Bush said he’d fire anyone who was responsible–lie?)
That said, I’m not “excusing” an Obama lie. I’m not convinced there is a lie. But, I will say, even if he said something untrue on this meaningless issue, it would pale in comparison to what we’ve been through with the “worst President ever.” So, Obama would be a vast improvement, and certainly better than McCain.
Laugh.
Hal,
I believe that it was Valerie Plame’s husband who was the biggest fibber. I don’t know what you are talking about — a forged document? It very clearly stated in the Senate Committee Report that S. Hussein provided the material support for Al Qaeda (sp?) to train right there in Iraq. He may not have been directly involved with Bin Laden but he certainly gave aid to Al Qaeda.
Dear Hal,
Abortion and infanticide are not meaningless issues–at least not to me. Many of us believe that the other failures in our society cannot be solved until we protect the small unborn children in the womb.
Many also believe that by undermining the right to legal protection of the unborn we have set the stage for another wave of concentration camps and extermination camps, perhaps in our own land.
John
Bobby, If I had a link to that Obama anthem, I’d have put it up. All those talk shows have subscriber sites now.
***********************************
One thing has become clear. The liberals have a pretty huge capacity for assigning relative value to their fellow humans and choosing which ones may be killed.
I’m really amused by their protestations of insult concerning these revelations about Obama, and themselves.
The father of two girls could never do such a thing, they say.
I think no normal father could speak of his very young daughters in the way that Obama did at the Pennsylvania Compassion Forum.
“However, history shows that running in defeat from evil often ends up in much, much worse results than confronting it and defeating it. A perfect example would be what happened in Cambodia after we cowardly left Viet Nam. 2,000,000 to 4,000,000 people were killed by the Pol Pot regime as a result. Remember, good seeks to end evil, evil seeks to promote evil.”
This is asinine. We killed roughly 2,000,000 Vietnamese, nearly half of them civilians. Our covert bombings and illegal invasion of Cambodia killed another 600,000 and destabilized the Sihanouk government, creating a political vacuum for the Khmer Rouge to fill. After we finally let the corrupt and inept Saigon regime face its inevitable doom, it was the Vietnamese communists who deposed Pol Pot! There were no “good” guys in this sordid travesty.
(Incidentally, it was Eisenhower/Nixon that got us entrenched in Vietnam; Kennedy/Johnson just dug us in deeper.)
Our bloodletting in Latin America has been equally shameful, and a fair share can be “credited” to the venerable Ronald Reagan:
http://shr.aaas.org/guatemala/ceh/report/english/toc.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Kissinger/CaseAgainst1_Hitchens.html
By the way, I’m strongly pro-life and realize that the astronimical abortion death toll is America’s greates moral crisis. However, both liberal and conservative ideologues are morally schizophrenic when it comes to justifying the slaughter of innocents.
Who is the Illinois Medical Society???
Are they a specific group or is Obama just making a generalization about medical professionals in Illinois? I’ve never heard of them.
Nothing on Google either.
If Obama and his wife had a downsendrom child I guess they would have just thrown it in the dumpster, not wanting it. Then try to tell me they are not radical Islamicists and care only for themselves and not for America or its people