Breaking news: Obama campaign changes story, admits he misrepresented Born Alive vote

Thumbnail image for breaking.jpgFrom the New York Sun, dated August 18:

Indeed, Mr. Obama appeared to misstate his position in the CBN interview on Saturday when he said the federal version he supported “was not the bill that was presented at the state level.”
His campaign yesterday acknowledged that he had voted against an identical bill in the state Senate, and a spokesman, Hari Sevugan, said the senator and other lawmakers had concerns that even as worded, the legislation could have undermined existing Illinois abortion law. Those concerns did not exist for the federal bill, because there is no federal abortion law….


Bearing in mind the Obama campaign now admits he voted as state senator against the very same legislation passed overwhelmingly on the federal level to stop infanticide, read again what he told CBN’s David Brody only last night:

Well and because they have not been telling the truth. And I hate to say that people are lying, but here’s a situation where folks are lying.
I have said repeatedly that I would have been completely in, fully in support of the federal bill that everybody supported – which was to say – that you should provide assistance to any infant that was born – even if it was as a consequence of an induced abortion.

Obama on Born Alive Infants Protection Act

That was not the bill that was presented at the state level. What that bill also was doing was trying to undermine Roe vs. Wade. By the way, we also had a bill, a law already in place in IL that insured life saving treatment was given to infants.
So for people to suggest that I and the IL Medical Society, so IL doctors were somehow in favor of withholding life saving support from an infant born alive is ridiculous. It defies common sense and it defies imagination and for people to keep on pushing this is offensive and it’s an example of the kind of politics that we have to get beyond.
It’s one thing for people to disagree with me about the issue of choice, it’s another thing for people to out and out misrepresent my positions repeatedly, even after they know that they’re wrong. And that’s what’s been happening.

Little did Obama know his own words would so quickly condemn him. He admitted what he did “defies common sense and it defies imagination.” In fact, it was heinous.
While the Obama campaign tonight finally admitted Obama has misrepresented his Born Alive vote all these years, it had the audacity to offer a ludicrous excuse, an excuse Obama himself contradicted only 24 hours ago, as he has for years, that “I would have been completely in, fully in support of the federal bill that everybody supported.”

 

Additional Information:  Obama’s Born Alive Vote and reasons he voted against the Born Alive Infants Protection Act.

288 thoughts on “Breaking news: Obama campaign changes story, admits he misrepresented Born Alive vote”

  1. And McCain voted for the war. Abortion only matters to voters who would never have them and don’t want others to have that right as well. For everyone else, the constant focus reminds us of how many sex scandals the republicans have been in and how dearly they wish they did not have to talk about them..that or the war. It makes it down-right easy to tell the political christians from the real deal.

  2. Wow. This is a big deal. Congrat’s Jill! I think you had something to do with this by continuing to press the truth to whomever would listen.
    If indeed you are interviewed for Hannity’s Sunday show, I’m sure you will be sure to talk about this admission from the Obama people, and how this makes Obama to be the one who seems to have no problem lying–even as he calls others lairs in the process. The truth seems to mean nothing to him. Even labeling others liars, is fair game, if it pursues his political goals.
    How could we consider such a con man for the Presidency?

  3. Watch out. This is just the kind of thing the Clintons have been waiting for. She may now get nominated at the DNC.

  4. Tango,
    What a ridiculous comment, lets just gloss over all of the scandalous behavior of the left and change the subject. Please, there is equally scandalous behavior in all sides of politics, it is the nature of the beast. But let’s address your ignoring the problems pointed out in this particular instance.
    Obama is lying here, he also lied about the abortion stats under Bush and he continues to change his positions with the winds of the moment. Abortion matters to those who have had them as well, most I know definitely regret it and would prefer it not have been an option. Keep living in Neverland, the real world is for those of us who deal in reality. Your partisan thinking and lack of intellect would have you in real trouble here.

  5. At least someone in his campaign realizes they need to get the truth out and not let his lies fester. Watch the video, his fake indignation comes ringing through! The man does have a problem giving straight answers.

  6. I’m waiting for Obama to appear on the OReilly Factor. He promised Bill a while back so far hasn’t delivered.
    Obama doesn’t keep his promises and is a yellowbelly.
    It should be noted very strongly, the Hillary Clinton did appear on the OReilly Factor and answered Bill’s questions.
    So far, Obama has not.
    Does Obama have no guts.
    The world waits for Obama to make his promised appearance on the OReilly Factor.

  7. Mr. Obama still seems to be lying:
    I would have been completely in, fully in support of the federal bill that everybody supported.
    Jill said that he now has another reason that the state bill was inadequate. I think that this was the same reason that Cranky Catholic had mentioned at 10:25 AM on August 17 under the previous post “Obama Continues to Misrepresent Born-Alive Vote.”
    Didn’t Mr. Obama study law? Lawyers seem to love technicalities.
    I’d like again to post the link to Guy Benson’s recent article “Obama’s Infanticide Disgrace”. Here is Mr. Benson’s last paragraph:
    Whether it was Obama’s radical policy preferences, blind partisanship, or some combination of the two that motivated his vote is unclear. Although it’s offensive that Obama spun false excuses to try to justify his vote, what ultimately matters most is that he voted “no” on a bill that simply stated killing a living, breathing baby is not acceptable. That vote, in and of itself, is far worse than any political cover-up could ever be.

  8. Eddy, why would Obama lie about the fact that abortion rates have been dropping since at least Clinton’s presidency? It’s too obvious. I think he made a genuine mistake. One does when one gets tired. Even Bill Clinton did sometimes.
    Regarding the women who wish abortion had not been an option, have you spoken with women who were forced by their governments to bear children they did not want? How about women who had illegal abortions (how many of which there were before Roe/Wade we will never know)? Perhaps you should. Take your next vacation in the Philippines. It may be difficult to get them to talk about it.
    Regarding Obama, I bet the whole thing with BAIPA comes down to: he smelt a RTL rat, another attempt to use a gory image to pass a functionally meaningless restriction on abortion to be used later to mount a meritless prosecution against a doc like the “two doctors” BS was used against Dr. Tiller. To run up lawyers’ fees. And give some Republican lawyer a career as a hero to the RTLs. And decided he wasn’t going for it no matter how gory the image. That’s not a bad instinct.
    “Truthseeker”, LOL, as usual you respond in the widest-eyed possible manner. How old are you? This is nowhere near important enough to be “the chance Hillary is waiting for”. To the large majority it will just be another iteration of the tired “Eeeeeew, technical details of abortion!” argument. It may fire RTLs up but it won’t cause anyone to change their minds. This election will not be decided on a “gotcha” like that.
    Also, anything Hillary does now including appearing to oppose Obama she does in order to help him win. By doing that she will get better things than the Presidency. There are better things, you know.

  9. SoMG said: “Eddy, why would Obama lie about the fact that abortion rates have been dropping since at least Clinton’s presidency? It’s too obvious.”
    This is not the only time he’s stated something so blatantly false and easily checked. Remember when he talked about a bill that passed through the US Senate Banking Committee…”which is my committee”? Except he isn’t on the Senate Banking Committee. He only said he was to make himself sound good.
    Here’s a great article on this very topic: http://sweetness-light.com/archive/the-audacity-of-obamas-padded-resum
    Is it possible that he simply made a mistake? Sure. But his record for embellishing the facts/making things up as he goes along to make himself seem more knowledgeable or important than he is speaks for itself.
    Plus, he has to know that if any of the people in the audience really knew his extreme position on the taking of the lives of our inconvenient youth, he’d never have a chance to sucker them into believing he’s got a reasonable position on this watershed issue.

  10. I feel sorry for you, SoMG. Saying so is maybe patronizing, but the sentiment is real. You have a twisted way of thinking. Your religion seems hard and hollow.
    I’m curious: what are the better things that Mrs. Clinton can now do? She’s too old to be a mother to more children. If her daughter would marry, she could become a grandmother. She can still be a senator or a lawyer, I think, or she could volunteer her time to help the needy (as my mother now does).

  11. Obama has nobody to blame but himself. He’s been lying about his position and then on national TV he has the nerve to invoke the Biblical passage that when we do things to the least of us, we do it for God.
    Beyond that, and only because Obama purports to be a Christian, he should be asked about the implications of Psalm 139 on his decision of when life begins.

  12. From above:
    “Didn’t Mr. Obama study law? Lawyers seem to love technicalities.”
    When are we going to learn to not vote for attorneys? You would have thought the election of the Clintons would have been enough.
    Sometimes too many technicalities cause such fuzziness in recall that the fuzziness in common decency becomes inevitable.
    But the bottom line: killing children to solve problems became a practice from which a nation can never fully recover.

  13. Thanks Jill for exposing the fraud that is Barack Obama. It’s the same pattern all over again. He is confronted about something in his past, and then he gives several different explanations for it. All along Obama and his campaign attacks the person or groups that bring it up. He’s applying for the most important job in the land. When my daughter applied for a minimum wage job bagging groceries, she spent 20 minutes filling out an application about her past and questions about her character. I guess what they wanted to know wasn’t above her pay grade.

  14. This shows the real Obama, a politician so radical and he lies effortlessly to gain votes. He is a piece of work alright.

  15. Jill, excellent work as always :) obama is obviously a politian, but worse than that–an amateur!!! This has got to get more attention in the blogs/cable news.

  16. Audacity Pure and Simple

    Yesterday Barack Obama accused the National Right to Life Committee of forgery. The charge , if true, is an appalling blot on the NRLC’s scutcheon. If false, it suggests that the Democratic nominee-presumptive is audacious about more than just hope.

  17. Sarah,
    If Hannity and anybody else have anything to do with it, I’m sure it will.
    Ha! A Down’s syndrome baby that mommy and daddy didn’t want had his day after all.

  18. Yo La Tango,
    If millions of people are killed every year to abortion….then there we have millions who will never get the chance to go/not go to war……be impoverished/or not……be discriminated against for gender/religion/sexual preference or not. Basicallly being denied the right to life denies that person every right that many people fight for on an iidnivual basis. The ultimate denial and injusticve is the right to life because with out it, you don’t even have a chnace…you are denied the right of everything…..so the fight for the right to life trumps all…

  19. Off topic:
    Looks like this Tropical Storm/Hurricane Faye is going to rip through my state. Here we go again.
    For those who would, please say a prayer.
    Thanks.

  20. While agnostics say they are not quite sure, atheists are more definitive
    in their repudiation of God and His Sanctity of life.
    This emerging disorder of human logic creates a moral vacuum
    and gives license to hordes of like minded, liberal, tree-hugging
    fanatics, who gravitate to the creational proofs of the existence of God, and not to the Creator God Himself. In so doing they elevate Mother Earth which was made from nothing to the new-age goddess of enlightenment.
    This self-made mother earth cult of fanatics go about trying to
    DUPE THE MASSES
    into believing their ideology that all the problems of suffering humanity can be summed up and solved with the purchase of carbon credits, (more-tax-money) to offset the delusional impact of their fabricated and invisible carbon-footprints.
    How convenient and simple is that? Just write a check to their cause and sleep tight in your carbon body which leaves a carbon imprint on your bed, along with its pillows and blankets. What

  21. If abortion is such a basic constitutional right, why does Sen. Obama shrink from proclaiming it as such? He takes the NARAl money and attends the Planned Barrenhood breakfast…why then, Sen. Obama, should abortion be “rare?”
    Who should be denied one?

  22. Yeah, it really must be a challenge to tell every different person/organization what they want to hear, when they want to hear it. It’s probably even more challenging when people keep pointing out how much you actually do that.
    I would have SO much more respect for him if he would AT LEAST be honest. You support abortion, Obama. You voted against a bill that would help babies that survived abortion, Obama. It’s really not that hard to do.
    But instead, he says one thing to one group and a different one to another. Is this the “change” he speaks of? Cause it looks like the same old bull**** to me.

  23. I find it interesting that the people here to comment can have conviction of their beliefs and manage to get across their points with clarity. We know exactly what we want to say and we say it. Obama should take some lessons from us.
    He cannot seem to formulate a thought to save his life, cannot even STATE what he is for or against and the hemming and hawing and ummmming and aaaahhhing are actually quite painful to watch. He can’t even stay on task to ANSWER THE QUESTION!! It would be hilarious if it weren’t so sad.

  24. Again, this would be big news if it mattered! The Pro Life/Pro Choice vote is such a small group in the voting public. Only shallow people vote for their candidate based solely on the abortion line…I think it is funny people hinge their vote on one issue. One issue voters, or as I call them, the Missionary Voters, won’t have any substantial voice Nov. 8.
    John McCain wasn’t ever baptized…he will go straight to purgatory..

  25. “While the Obama campaign tonight finally admitted Obama has misrepresented his Born Alive vote all these years, it had the audacity to offer a ludicrous excuse, an excuse Obama himself contradicted only 24 hours ago, as he has for years, that “I would have been completely in, fully in support of the federal bill that everybody supported.”
    Great Point Jill.
    So, which is it Obama? first you’re against it, then you say you’d be for if it was like the federal version, but now that you’ve been caught and it’s been proven to you that it was identical, you’re against it again.(Now this is the bill that passed 98-0 in the senate).
    This man’s alligence to PP and the abortionists is so strong that it prevents him from protecting born babies..how sad.

  26. For the love of God, vote Pro-life and restore sanity to America.
    John McDougall
    Retired Sheriff, Ft. Myers, Florida
    @ 8:36: Excellent post! May God bless you all in Florida and keep you out of harm’s way!

  27. Steven Waldman over at Belief.net is still acting as if there’s some “controversy” that needs to be cleared up by the Obama campaign. He states that he’s relieved that Obama “finally attacked the issue more emphatically” with Brody, but doesn’t explain that Obama’s “attack” was merely a false accusation of lying against NRTL. Someone has already posted a comment with the relevant links to Jill, and I’ve posted an as-yet unapproved protest. I would encourage everyone to put pressure on Belief.net to correct the now-undisputed record on this issue.

  28. Hannity picking something up is nothing…He is still talking about the Rezko relationship. That never gained traction. EVER…..
    Hannity and Lindsay Graham are both trying to have the best part EVER!

  29. Hal:
    You have suppported Obama hook, line and sinker throughout his campaign.
    You have defended his lying ways when we pro-lifers kept telling you he was lying.
    Now, this question goes directly to your character Hal: Do you still support Barack Obama?
    And know this Hal, we have also been telling you the truth about aborrtion, that it is the murder of the unborn and that there is a God in Heaven who will hold all accountable who committ and support it.
    Will you finally admit the error of your ways, be forgiven and join us in our battle against this great evil?

  30. “John McCain wasn’t ever baptized…he will go straight to purgatory..”
    Well hopefully, but I think you’re thinking of limbo, and if you are, your theology is incorrect, as limbo is only theological speculation designated for those who have not reached the age of reason. 71 is far past the age of reason so even if limbo exists (which I don’t believe it does), McCain will not go there. If you did mean to say purgatory, well, there is no correlation between the two, at least not that strong.

  31. That is the belief of my crazy grandma to be honest…I try to tell her he is going straight to hell because he boned a younger richer woman while his crippled wife was at home taking care of their kids…he is so Mavericky!
    Did he have sunflower seeds in his mouth during the Warren interview fluff job?

  32. Check out the Jerusalem Post story of a “fetus” who survived an abortion and several hours in the morgue freezer.
    Let’s ask Obama if the baby should be put back in the freezer. That’s what he voted for.

  33. I know this off topic but still very important about Obama. Perhaps a new political attack add should be this.
    During the Primary, Obama said to Bill OReilly that he would appear the OReilly Factor.
    So far Obama has been a “NO Show”.
    Obama doesn’t keep his promises.
    Obama wrong for America.
    Obama has said he would me with Foreign Leaders without Precondition.
    Hannity has called his bluff. Hannity has invited Obama to appear on his show many times.
    So Far, Obama has been a “No Show”.
    If Obama says he willing to meet with Foreign Leaders without precondition then why is Obama refusing to appear on Hannity.
    I can tell you the meetings with Foreign Leaders without precondition would be far far more intimitating that meeting with a media commentator such as Hannity.
    Prove your Toughness Obama and appear on Hannity’s show.

  34. Do you think Obama is scared to go on Bill O’s show because Bill might want to use a loufa sponge on him? I would be freaked out if I was within 5 feet of that “reporter.”
    I only DVR the body language segments, they are some of the best television out there…so trustworthy. Oh, and Dennis Miller, so credible.

  35. “Again, this would be big news if it mattered! The Pro Life/Pro Choice vote is such a small group in the voting public. Only shallow people vote for their candidate based solely on the abortion line…I think it is funny people hinge their vote on one issue. One issue voters, or as I call them, the Missionary Voters, won’t have any substantial voice Nov. 8.”
    I think this is kind of funny, because in addition to his position on and lies about abortion, there are SO MANY OTHER REASONS to not vote for Obama.

  36. That is a great story Gerry. From the article
    “The woman underwent an abortion and the baby, weighing 610 grams, was extracted from her womb without a pulse, hospital officials said. ”
    I think it should be pointed out that if you are extracting the fetus from the womb in order to save the life of the mother, this is not an abortion because the purpose of abortion is to kill the fetus, which this procedure clearly had no intention of doing. Like good medicine, they attempted to save the life of the mother without directly killing the baby. Of course, this is the problem with defining abortion as the termination of a pregnancy. Yes the pregnancy was terminated, as was my wife’s when she gave birth to our daughter, but killing the fetus was not the means to a good end (saving the life of the mother) in this case. This is why abortion is “the direct and willful killing of a fetus or embryo as a means to ending pregnancy”, not simply the “termination of a pregnancy.”

  37. Thanks, Jasper. In the coming days there’s going to be an astounding amount of ignorance and misinformation spread on sites and blogs like Belief.net which will require vigilant monitoring and response.
    Jill deserves an enormous vote of thanks for her years of tenacity on this issue. It is encouraging beyond measure that her efforts have caused the controversy to snowball the very week before the Democratic convention. She’s forced him to change his campaign’s election-season slogan from “Change You Can Believe In” to “I Don’t Believe in Killing Babies” — and even if he can convince people that he doesn’t, the mere fact that he must undertake that effort is, in Visa’s words, “priceless.”

  38. ‘Welcome all new commenters!! Thank you for your thoughts. Please stay.
    Posted by: Carla at August 18, 2008 7:06 AM’
    Carla, don’t assume we aren’t listening if we aren’t commenting. I comment rarely but I read the blog everyday.
    Have a nice day.

  39. Carla, don’t assume we aren’t listening if we aren’t commenting. I comment rarely but I read the blog everyday.
    That is encouraging, Andy! :)

  40. It is true that Obama’s own words (to David Brody) condemn him. That he is the presumptive Dem. presidential nominee is truly frightening. Thank you, Jill, for publishing the facts. A thank you, too, to Senator O’Malley who sponsored the Born Alive bills to begin with. Who would have guessed that this would be the major issue that would shed light on the dark side of a presidential candidacy.

  41. Terminating a pregnancy = abortion. It appears that the Israeli Mom needed a second opinion. It appears that no effort was made to revive the child. The doctor believed the baby was dead and perhaps that is why no extraordinary means were taken.
    The JP writer continued to refer to the delivered baby girl as a “fetus.” God had other plans, and exercised them on a Sunday.

  42. Let’s not forget to go the the poll at the right and change our grading of how Obama’s is running his campaign.
    I originally gave hima “B” not because of any truths he was telling but because of it’s abilty to convince despite his lying.
    Now that the lie has been admitted (probably in a realization that without doing so would have irreparably damaged the campaign), it is evident that his campaign is a huge failure.
    I changed my vote to an “F” and I ask all of you to rethink your vote.

  43. Hisman asks:
    You have suppported Obama hook, line and sinker throughout his campaign.
    You have defended his lying ways when we pro-lifers kept telling you he was lying.
    Now, this question goes directly to your character Hal: Do you still support Barack Obama?”
    Oh yes, I sure do HisMan. bumper sticker on my car, a modest check each month. The whole nine yards. I am very very excited about Obama being president. I know he won’t be perfect, and I know he’s probably more conservative than I am, but he’s the best we’ve had in a very long time.
    I know you guys have your panties in a bunch about this bill (that passed) several years back. It may be hard for you to understand, but this is one of the least significant issues I can imagine in a Presidential Election.

  44. Midnite–
    You need to consider what a disaster Obama would be…He’s already said he’d reverse the Mexico City Policy on Day 1.
    His VERY first comment on the Russian invasion of Georgia was “Georgia needs to get out now.”
    Get out of their own country?
    Obama will not end this war, either. We won’t be able to drill or expand the national business base (GDP for you blue staters).
    So there you have it–Obama’s #1 export: abortion. Sounds like a real loser for babies.

  45. Hey Midnite678:
    What do you mean?
    You think we should stop talking about Obama?
    Right now, what other issue is more important to you?
    I don’t understand your comment.

  46. It may be hard for you to understand, but this is one of the least significant issues I can imagine in a Presidential Election.
    I completely agree with this. I dont support Obama, but I support Hal’s statement on this :o)

  47. I consider this a victory of sorts. Obama has allowed little to be found against him with the exception of where he stands on the issues. What does it say about us, when we believe that the only reason to protect the life of another human being or to end it, is whether or not it’s wanted?

  48. Great Post Bethany! Obama states he is willing to sit down and talk to some of the roughest leaders of the world and yet Obama sit has not consented to sit to talk to a Fox News Commentator such OReilly or Hannity.
    Where is Obama’s guts?
    Perhaps he is a yellowbelly.

  49. Still this crap with Obama…Sheesh
    What about this bothers you, Midnite? Is it fact that his support of infanticide is being brought out in the open, or is it the fact that he supports infanticide, or is it the fact that he supports infanticide and doesn’t mind lying about it?

  50. I completely agree with this. I dont support Obama, but I support Hal’s statement on this :o)
    Midnite, are you really saying that a president condoning murder of innocent U.S. Citizens is a small, insignificant issue?

  51. HisMan,
    I agree with your comment to Midnite. This issue is highly interesting and worthy of discussion, especially on this blog since Jill has been intimately involved with this issue and well, it is her blog.
    Obama is a liar, liar and a liar again. I am so proud of Jill for continuing to bring this into the light of day. He should be called on it.
    If you are bored with this issue Midnite, don’t read the threads. No one is forcing you to.
    If this wasn’t such a big deal, why did Obama continue to lie until he couldn’t defend them anymore.

  52. Bethany, I was thinking over the weekend about last week’s debate on “infanticide.” If you would change “supports infanticide” to “tolerates infanticide” I think we’d be on the same page. There are lots of things I tolerate that I don’t support.
    I don’t think Obama “tolerates” infanticide either, but that’s a better description of what you say his actions suggest.

  53. No I am not Bethany. You know we dont agree on the issue of abortion. You’re pro-life and I am pro-choice. I dont think abortion is murder like y’all do. Infanticide is the murder of children and it illegal; we’ve had this discussion before.
    I am just personally sick of hearing about Obama. I dont support him, nor do I really support Mcain.
    All politicians lie, and y’all should know this by now.

  54. Carder:
    As you requested I am praying for you and for your state of Florida during this hurricane.
    Liberals, please don’t blame Geoge Bush for this hurricane, I hear he’s only able to sontrol the weather in his huge shower off the Oval Office.
    Clinton 08:
    I suppose you are a FemiNazi?
    Now that Obama’s campaign has been obliterated I have to admit that Hillary will use this as an “IN” at the convention, in contrast to SoMGs arrogant rant to my friend Truthseeker. I’ve got to admit that this is a gift horse to those two smakes. No worries, the truth will out them as well. Remember, “I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”.
    Give us your best shot.

  55. No I am not Bethany. You know we dont agree on the issue of abortion. You’re pro-life and I am pro-choice. I dont think abortion is murder like y’all do. Infanticide is the murder of children and it illegal; we’ve had this discussion before.
    Midnite, I am not talking about abortion. I am talking about born babies, US Citizens under the law.

  56. “Now that Obama’s campaign has been obliterated …”
    OMG, that’s funny. I guess you can save your secret video of 2012 now.

  57. Bethany, I was thinking over the weekend about last week’s debate on “infanticide.” If you would change “supports infanticide” to “tolerates infanticide” I think we’d be on the same page. There are lots of things I tolerate that I don’t support.
    I don’t think Obama “tolerates” infanticide either, but that’s a better description of what you say his actions suggest.

    Either way, it’s just as horrific to me. I can’t imagine tolerating infanticide anymore than I can imagine tolerating rape.

  58. I am just personally sick of hearing about Obama. I dont support him, nor do I really support Mcain.
    All politicians lie, and y’all should know this by now.

    Does that fact (that others do it too) make their lies acceptable?
    If you are tired of hearing about them, don’t read about them. Don’t watch TV. Don’t read Jill’s blog. Don’t read the news. Doesn’t that make more sense than coming to a pro-life blog and harping about us posting pro-life topics?

  59. Here’s a story off Drudge that you guys can go nuts over:
    A premature baby who was pronounced dead “came back to life” Sunday after five hours in Nahariya Hospital.
    The baby girl, who was in a cooler at the hospital, suddenly showed signs of life and was being treated in the premature baby unit.
    Doctors estimated that the cooler brought the fetus “back to life.”
    The mother, 26, from a Western Galilee village, was in the fifth month of her pregnancy when she underwent a series of tests, during which it was discovered that she was suffering from internal bleeding and that the embryo had ceased to show signs of life.
    The woman underwent an abortion and the baby, weighing 610 grams, was extracted from her womb without a pulse, hospital officials said.
    A senior doctor pronounced the baby dead and she was transferred to the cooler.
    Five hours later, the woman’s husband came to the hospital to take what he thought was his dead baby girl for burial.
    When the baby was taken out of the cooler, she began to breathe. The premature baby was then taken to the intensive care ward, where doctors were attempting to save her life.

  60. Except the news article got it a bit wrong. They called the baby a “fetus”, even after it was born.
    fetus: The unborn offspring from the end of the 8th week after conception (when the major structures have formed) until birth.

  61. Thanks for that Bethany. Really sweet….You know I have enough going on in my life without you telling me what I can and can not do.

  62. I am not telling you what to do, Midnite…I’m telling you how to make your life simpler and less annoying for yourself.
    I’m not trying to be mean, just trying to help you out.
    If you are feeling annoyed by what you are reading here, what good does it do you to continue reading here?
    Look, you are the one who started a confrontation by coming on here and saying, “Sheesh, not this crap about Obama still…”
    You can’t expect people not to respond to that, can you?

  63. How to make life simpler and less annoying? I highly doubt cutting out The Presidential Election and all it’s crap will do anything to make my life simpler and less annoying.
    I am working over 40 hours a week, and I go to school 18 hours a week. I have an evil mother who calls me daily to scream at me and tell me what a dissapointment I am and to inform me that my degree and my chosen field of work is not right for me. She is bitter and miserable so she is trying to make me bitter and miserable with her. I have a grandfather, who I love more than life itself, dying. He is battling a lung cancer that is terminal and he is going to die.
    So I dont have time to eat or sleep. This was my one day before fall semester begins so I though I’d check up here and see what was going on. Since I didnt have time during summer semester.
    And with all that going on in my life I managed to make deans list (for the first time in my life) and not kill anyone. Do you know what my mother told me when I showed her? “Oh that’s nice I guess” and then she walked off.
    So please dont tell me how to make my life simpler or less annoying, b/c you have no idea what I deal with on a daily basis.
    And excuse me for coming in and raining on yalls Obama bashing parade.
    Please continue and forget I opened my mouth.

  64. Midnite, I am very sorry to hear of your problems of late. Please don’t assume that I would know that automatically… There’s no way I could have known without you telling us.
    I’m very sorry to hear that your mother is treating you like that. It’s not right. I can imagine that must cause you a great deal of stress. Please, please don’t live your life trying to please her. Live life to make you happy, and just pray that one day she’ll come around and accept you for who you are, regardless of college, etc. She sounds like someone who is just using you and making your life miserable. No good can come from trying to please her at this point in time. Just be yourself! (hugs) Again, I am very sorry you are having to deal with that.
    And I am especially sorry to hear about your grandfather. I hope that his pain will be lessened and that he won’t have to suffer!

  65. Midnite678:
    Please recognize that you are being cynical and this is destructive to you personally. I care about you and tell you the truth for your own good.
    No one is perfect Midnite, however, we can select a candidate based on the issues that we think affects us and others the most. Obama and McCain are equally imperfect. However, the campaign is a vetting process that was ingeniously designed by the Foudnaing Fathers as a test of character, morals, and leadership.
    Lying is not a leadership trait, representing one’s faith in contradiction to the tenets of that faith is not a leadership quality, etc. Obama and McCain are simply being revelaed for who they are to the voters and hopefully, it is our prayer, that the wishes of teh voters will be in line with who God wantts in office. Ultaimatley he will give us who we want, right or wrong. This is why this is a spritual battle, Midnite.
    In this election, it is clear that Obama is a rabid pro-abort and then represents himself as of being a Christian. I can assure you, as a student of the Bible for over 30 years, his actions and views are not that of a Christian. In fact, they are demonic.
    I happen to believe that the abortion issue is morally fundamental and supercedes all other issues because it is wrong and it strikes directly at the heart of God and how He deals with us as a nation.
    Ultimatley, God controls our destiny indiviudally and as a nation and recognizing and believing that means that we should want to do what He wants. For me alone and solely, no? For my kids, their kids, etc.,stc., yes, yes and yes. “A good man leaves a legacy to his children’s children”.
    I am absolutely sure God does not want us to oppose the expression of the intent of His will, which is every human being concieved, by terminating them using legalized abortion or any other means. Our Government was intituted by God to protect us from evildoers and to provide us a peaceful environment in which to live out our faiths. Abortion opposes this notion.
    In my opinion, Obama’s views actually don’t represent change, they represent a continuation of the gross errors of the John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson administrations that glorified and crowned government as the “new church” on earth; the church of Liberalism. What has resulted since then is a takeover of the what the church should be doing, clothing the naked, feeding the poor, healing the sick and proclaimig the oracles of God; the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
    The government cannot do this as this is not their charter. The government is not the bride of Christ. Further, the government does not shares God’s vison of the world and “without vision, the people perish”.
    This is grossly evidenced by what is happening in our country today, the results of which are the promotion of atheism; removing God and prayer from schools, the heinous institutionalization of infanticide; legalized abortion, the normaliziation of gross perversion; gay rights, and an attempt by a minority at redefining society’s greatest institution of marriage; judicial activism and tyranny.
    So, we are engaged in the battle for the future of our coountry, one that includes the protection of God’s hand or, one that does not. I choose to leave my kids and their kids a country that is protected under God’s loving hand and you should too.
    God bless you and I hope you think and try to understand what I am trying to teach you.

  66. Midnite,
    *HUGS MY LOVE*
    I think that the posts about Obama are relevant, not because it’s politics, but because it’s a pro life issue.
    Anything pro life gets talked about here, and while this might not be a topic of significance for the general population, it is very significant to us.
    See?
    It’s not straight out Obama bashing, it’s Obamambashingonaprolifeissues.
    I know it can get tedious to come on here and see 20 Obama posts in a row, but many of us are VERY interested in all things Obama/prolife. So he’s going to be front and center til the election.
    Just be patient and we’ll get back to other stuff in November.
    You know we love you…

  67. HisMan:
    I am cynical? Are you freaking serious? Did you not read what I just told Bethany? Would you be all sunshine rays and peaches if you were in my shoes at the moment?
    No, I am not cynical HisMan, I am just angry all the time from what my life has become. I dont eat right, I am lucky if I get to sleep 3 hours a night, and I live off caffine and nicotine.
    If I had time in my busy schedule, I’d have a nervous breakdown. But guess what? I cant fit that into my schedule b/c I dont have time to do it.

  68. Midnite, would you like someone to talk to in person sometime? If you ever get a break, for just one day…you’re more than welcome to come visit me and we can talk. Or I can listen while you talk. Or you’re welcome to call.
    Just let me know.
    I know you want to please your mom, but have you thought about just doing what makes you happy…maybe it wouldn’t be such a bad idea to skip a semester or two, to give yourself a break and a chance to think about things and what you want to do in life?

  69. I haven’t commented much on my quest to get the “Greiving Parents Act” passed in my state.
    This bill would make it mandatory for women who are diagnosed with miscarriage be given information on disposition options available so they and their families have a “choice” on how their babies remains will be handled.
    In a very small nutshell:
    We got the bill passed, but not without ridiculous drama from the “pro-choice” camp and from the original “pro-choice” senator who was the initial sponsor of this legislation.
    The senator who was the original sponsor of this common sense, compassionate, bi-partisan bill decided to run in 08 for an open US congressional seat after failing to bring our bill forward during the 07 session since she unfortunately let it get wrapped up in abortion politics.
    After making the decision to run for an open US Congressional seat, her political resume was opened for reveiw. This little bill showed up on her and made the national “pro-choice” groups very nervous. She tried to lie and lie and spin to keep the pro-choice groups happy who were questioning her decision to sponsor this bill. (she told them she took the bill to purposely bury it so it would never see the light of day) At the same time she was lying to us regarding her position on the bill. She stated to us and publicly that this bill was not an infringement on a women’s right to choose and she would not let it get tangled up with the abortion politics.
    She wouldn’t bring the bill forward in 08, but sat on it and refuesed to release the bill so it could move forward with another senator. (a promise she apparently made to the “pro-choice” camp.
    To cover up why she wouldn’t move the bill forward, her and the state PP drummed up a red herring. They created a letter that was handed out at her campaing rallies and nominating convention that stated language had been changed in the bill by the house Representative, making it a vehicle for “anti choice” legislation. Therefore it would be impossible for her to move ahead as the sponsor. This was a total lie and she used this lie to throw the Representative under the bus.
    Many of her pro-choice supporters dumped her, not neccisarilyy because of the content of the bill, but due to her continuous lies and spin surrounding this bill. They couldn’t trust her, since her story kept changing.
    Apparently, she also lost much campaign funding from national pro-choice organizations who sponsor “pro-choice” candidates.
    She lost the nomination for her party and looked like a fool for the lies and spin she continued to spew to both sides.
    When our bill finally came to the floor (sponsored by a new Senator) in 08, the original senator vehemently shook her head “no” to the speaker so he would not forward it as an amendment. She didn’t want to have to be forced to vote. She was caught in her own web. They may have taken a roll-call vote which would have put her into a very difficult position. She was ignored. The amendment moved forward and the bill passed unanimously on a voice vote. The lying senator then had the nerve to call us personally to take credit for getting our bill passed.
    The lies just coninued.
    I have been in contact with the pro-choice group who decided to dump their support for the senator. We agree to disagree on abortion, but they did agree that we can view the issue of pregnancy loss through the same lens and give it the attention and support women deserve while they go through the difficult process of a pregnancy loss. They understood this bill was an important step in making that happen. We even discussed being guest speakers at one of their meetings so we could dispell the lies and myths surrounding the intent of this bill, which had nothing to do with abortion politics, but everything to do with helping women.
    I do give the pro-choice supporters credit for seeing through the senator’s lies. They completely felt duped and didn’t want to support someone who they couldn’t count on to be honest.
    The senator lied to them just as she had lied to us. It was indicative she would lie again to save herself and her political career.
    I would hope that anyone supporting Obama would feel the same way about his continued spin and lies. How do you know he won’t sell you out???

  70. midnite, I was wondering how you’re doing.
    I’m sorry to hear about the way your mom’s treating you. Maybe lashing out at you is her way of dealing with her father’s illness? It doesn’t justify it(at all) but it might help explain it.
    I’m glad to see you around here!

  71. Midnite,
    I’m your surrogate family, and I care….VERY MUCH!
    I’ve go four college students…one that is one credit shy of graduation, one that is in his sixth year and still doesn’t have a major, one that dropped out to become a daddy, and one that can’t start because he HASN’T GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL YET! (we’re workin’ on it)
    So I for one am WWWWWAAAAAAAY impressed with the “Dean’s List” accomplishment! That is mighty cool!
    And if it makes you feel better, I saw your new facebook picture. You might not be feeling so great, but girl, you LOOK marvelous. I love your hair. It’s SO blonde!
    Kudos to your dad! And maybe mom is just jealous. Who wouldn’t be having a knock-out daughter with brains to boot. She’s just wrapped up in her own little pitiful world. Don’t let her get you down.
    And don’t become bitter…you’re better than that!
    Now flash me that dazzling smile that I love so much!

  72. Bethany:
    I am graduating dec 13th of this year, so I am not going to take any time off. I am at the finish line. Plus she’d cut my head off if I did that (her=my mother)

  73. Midnite,
    Truly sorry to hear about your personal situation, and congrats on making the Dean’s list.
    With all sincerity though, there is a pattern you have created for yourself. You come to this site, make statements that deserve comment, then you get mad when people do respond to your comment. You then proceed to rant about how terrible and hard your life is and get angry with the people here and acuse them of making your life worse.
    Nobody’s life is perfect. Mine isn’t, but I don’t take it out on the people of this site.
    Sorry, just had to point it out.

  74. Rush Limbaugh is discussing Obama’s votes on BAIPA today…I emailed all the info…..
    This could reach 15-20 million listeners…

  75. Sandy:
    No I dont have a pattern. Thanks for your opinion though.
    And if you’d actually been paying attention you would have noticed that I havent been here at all this summer b/c I’ve been to busy with school and work. And most of the time, I do carry on civil conversations with people. Nor do I take my anger out on other people (once again, pay attention). Nor have I ever accused anyone on this site of making my life more miserable than it really is.
    MK:
    Thank you, that means a lot to me, really.

  76. Sorry MidNite678:
    Midnight, you know we love you.
    You’re in a battle.
    You’re being abused.
    Calling all politicians liars, which I don’t necessarily disagree with, is cynical. However, don’t let what bad things people do to you, parents, politicians or otherwise poison your life. Learn from God, he advises us to forgive without withdrawing from the battle. I was trying to steer you right becuase I care about you.
    MK:
    I noticed you haven’t been blogging for a while. Based on what happened today, i.e., Obama’s campaign admitting his lies, can mean only one thing; this is your fault due to the many prayers you were offering up on Jill’s behalf, no? Don’t fib now…..

  77. Sorry MidNite678:
    Midnight, you know we love you.
    You’re in a battle. You’re being abused, by others and, by your own admission, yourself. I encourage to get some help.
    Calling all politicians liars, which I don’t necessarily disagree with, is cynical. However, don’t let what bad things people do to you, parents, politicians or otherwise poison your life. Learn from God, he advises us to forgive, oterhs and ourselves, without withdrawing from the battle. I was trying to steer you right becuase I care about you.
    You can do it!
    MK:
    I noticed you haven’t been blogging for a while. Based on what happened today, i.e., Obama’s campaign admitting his lies, can mean only one thing; this is your fault due to the many prayers you were offering up on Jill’s behalf, no? Don’t fib now…..

  78. This could reach 15-20 million listeners…
    Posted by: Jasper at August 18, 2008 12:40 PM
    How many Obama supporters in that group?
    Remember, McCain gets 40% of the vote without trying, Obama gets 40% of the vote without trying. The other 20% that’s in play probably doesn’t listen to Rush or Air America.

  79. Hal, that’s why it’s important that CNN/MSNBC gets this story.
    It’s actually interesting, because alot of centrist democrats are very upset with the DNC/Obama anyway, so this type of story is great for their cause. They care, and they are the 20%.

  80. Hal, a mistatement happens once. It’s hard to “mistate” for 3 years, especially when you were the one who introduced the ammendment that you are now pretending doesn’t exist.

  81. Amanda, they did a study on girls who had it “on hand” vs girls who did not and the rates of pregnancy/abortion were the same in both groups.
    Let me go see if I can dig it up, it’s about a year old.

  82. Hal:
    Your unwillingness to accept the truth is only exceeded by your intentional attempts at covering it up.
    So abortion is not murder and misstating is not lying?
    Hal, you are losing your credibility as you hang on to the shredding coat tails of Barack Obama.
    Let me tell you this Hal, sacrificing your integrity for any man is hugely ignorant and I am being kind in saying just that.

  83. They did not admit “lies.” They admitted mistatements. It’s possible to be mistaken without lying. Did McCain lie about the Iraq/Pakistan boarder?
    Posted by: Hal at August 18, 2008 12:57 PM
    ==========================================
    This would only be worth of comparison if McCain insisted that for years.

  84. Yes,
    Midnite I did notice you haven’t been here for awhile, and that’s why it was so blatant that your response was the same as always. Your personal life is always drama which you bring here and then get upset when people comment.
    It’s all relative, some people might admire your lifestyle of an independant college student earning a degree and making her way in life. Be thankful you have the opportunity to go to school. Be thankful you got to know and love your grandfater. I never had that chance. I only had one grandmother who died while I was in school.
    I too had a mother who yelled and gave me very little emotional support through life, my father was worse. I lost my granmother when I was in school, and worked all while taking 23 credits to graduate earning a 4.0.
    See? I understand, but your ranting just gets old and tired. Sorry just being honest.

  85. *Full disclosure*
    I’ve taken plan-b (before I was prolife or new about its abortificient properties)
    It made me feel *terrible*. I mean, we’re talking more sick/sore than I ever felt during pregnancy. My cycles were off for months after taking it.
    I didn’t get pregnant though, and I can only pray that it was because I didn’t conceive.

  86. Lauren,
    It states pretty clearly the reason is because the majority of women in the study didn’t use it properly (took it too late, didnt take it as directed), etc. NOT as a result of having it available and/or its effectiveness when used properly.
    Patient compliance is a huge issue with ALL medications unfortunatley, but thats certainly the fault of the patient, not the medicine.
    I’ve kept it on hand for 4 years now, but only used it once, and it was within 2 hours of a condom breaking. Never hurts to be extra cautious.

  87. Amanda, I was just commenting that it’s not a successfull way to lower abortion rates overall. For a specific woman it has a fairly decent effectiveness rate, but it can’t be touted as THE SOLUTION to abortion.

  88. No, nothing is ever THE solution, but within the population of 20-30 somethings in monogamous relationships, I think it will, over time, reduce the abortion rate in that population.

  89. RU-486, in my judgment, is a human pesticide. It is anti-child. It is anti-woman. It is anti-family. It basically is a drug which only a nation would accept which has embraced, I believe, the culture of death that the pope and others have condemned. I think a nation and a civilization that embrace this pill are really headed in that direction.
    RU-486 is an abomination before God
    Our government certified the culture of death in an easy to swallow tablet. No moral country should ever make killing a child as casual as curing a headache, but the FDA’s approval of RU-486 turns a new page in America’s national tragedy. Millions more will perish, and their blood will stain our nation’s soul. This decision is an affront to all that is right in America and an abomination before the God who authored these unborn lives.

    from Pat Buchanan

  90. Amanda, please do not use Jill’s site as a platform to commercialize abortificiants. I removed your post. Thanks.

  91. Obama campaign, Obama disagree on born-alive protection vote

    The New York Sun reports that Sen. Barack Obama’s campaign has confirmed that the Illinois Born-Alive Infant Protection Act (BAIPA), which, as an Illinois State Senator and committee chairman, Obama voted to kill, had the same language as the federal b…

  92. Hisman,
    Coincidence?
    Someone is visibly upset about the potential derailment of Obama’s train.
    Never underestimate the power of a Down’s Baby.

  93. Sally:
    That is your opinion and you are entitled to have one.
    If I bother you that bad; just ignore me.
    And good for you on getting through all that, I know what you’re going through.

  94. Obama is good in front of a crowd. He would make a good game show host if this presidency thing doesn’t pan out.

  95. Hi Bethany,
    Kindly copy and paste which of the rules stated on the site I violated with my post.
    Jasper – thats great, too bad Plan B has absolutely nothing, nil, NADA, to do with RU 486.

  96. Thank you MK.
    I made 4 A’s and 2 B’s.
    And no one in my family cares besides my dad.
    Posted by: midnite678 at August 18, 2008 12:21 PM
    I care! Well done, midnite678! Congrats on the very good marks!!!

  97. All forms of the contraceptive “pill” are abortifacient. If they don’t impede ovulation, then they make implantation in the uterus of the new human being (with 46 unique chromosones, 23 from the father and 23 from the mother) impossible.

    Forty years ago, Pope Paul VI wrote an encyclical letter entitled “Humanae Vitae” (“Of Human Life”), in which he stated that increased use of and proliferation of the pill would ultimately result in a great increase of abortions, the break-up of marriage by divorce, increased sexual promiscuity, and a lessening of the value of human life.

    These have all become reality.

    There is a scientific and 100% safe alternative:
    Natural Family Planning, which has proven its effectiveness in allowing a married couple to space the conception of children. It also has the desirable effect of uniting the married couple closer to one another because they have to be sensitive to each other physically, emotionally and spiritually. It is 100% natural. The pill is a chemical. It is a kind of poison that wreaks havoc on a woman’s hormonal system. Not only that, it has a host of serious side effects, including cancer.

  98. At least you’re honest enough to call yourself opinionated, rather than factually accurate. I can respect that. =)

  99. I’m still waiting for the huge “backlash” that somebody predicted the liberal/pro-aborts would be doing if this story ever came out…

  100. MK,
    posting seem’s ok now. But logging in for moderators seems to be a problem still…
    can you guys try to login?

  101. Jasper, I have stated earlier that I probably would have voted for it. I say “probably” because I haven’t dug into the issue in full detail. From what I understand, I could have voted for it. I’m not convinced the law was necessary, however, and voting for it might be viewed cheap pandering to a fringe element.

  102. Bobby,
    I sent you an email. I am technically challenged and I’m afraid AOL is way too much for me. I can barely work facebook..lol.
    We can’t comment on the first thread tho. Was that intentional?

  103. Oops, spoke too soon. One can’t post on the thread below this one.
    Jasper, I’m logged in right now.

  104. Nah, come on. It’s really easy. I can talk you through it. It’s way easier than managing comments.

  105. “Was that intentional?”
    yes, I believe it is MK.
    I think Jill should try unpublishing the entry below this one just for a test.
    I still can’t login.

  106. Hmmmmm…this is really weird! I left for awhile and was surprised to see the problem is ongoing. Wonder what’s up.

  107. Janet, what makes you think Obama has a huge ego?
    Posted by: Hal at August 18, 2008 3:35 PM
    Womens’ intuition? It is sooooo obvious. Maybe it’s the way he carries himself. He’s got this “I know I’m good looking” attitude which generally translates to an inflated ego. The way he saunters around the stage. Do you hear women whistling when he’s speaking? He eats it up. Ick!

  108. I see some self-confidence, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a big ego (most politicans who think they’re qualified to be President do) but I don’t see it. If you agreed with his positions I don’t think you’d be as grossed out, but more likely inspired.

  109. Jasper –
    I don’t know of any valid reason, other than wording that made it possible to use it in any attempt at anti abortion legislation, why anyone would be opposed to it. So with the neutrality clause in effect, I would have supported the legislation.
    Obama made the wrong decision to try getting around it, rather than just admitting he didn’t want to pass any legislation supported by pro lifers, which I think was his reasoning – not any issue with the bill itself. But as I said before, a politician being deceptive is about as surprising as the sun coming up in the morning. John McCain has been busted in several similar incidents of “misspeaking”, including repeatedly accusing Barack Obama of “refusing” to vote on a bill that McCain claimed he signed, when it just so happened that both of them were on the campaign trail at the time – and NEITHER of them signed the bill, and Obama never “refused” to sign it. And what he did to his first wife is downright vile. As usual, it comes down to choosing between two men who are both liars and/or cheaters with about as much moral fiber and humility in their entire bodies as most people have in their left nostril… or as South Park put it “choosing between a douche and a turd”.

  110. Hisman,
    You’re too funny. I’ve been in Hilton Head this week. BUT, I did pray for hours on the beach every morning…AND went to mass on Sunday and on the 15th for the Assumption of Mary (Which was also my 28th wedding anniversary, and my son’s birthday)…but I’m NOT taking the blame for this one…lol.

  111. Wow, I think this is a new record for Jill. Four Obama posts in one day!
    Incidentally, it looks like we have to take McCain’s campaign’s word that he did not hear any of Obama’s interview, and hence have advance knowledge of the questions he would face. He was not in the building in a “cone of silence,” as Rick Warren stated, but rather in a vehicle in his motorcade, where he could easily have tuned into the broadcast.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/us/politics/18mccain.html

  112. Kindly copy and paste which of the rules stated on the site I violated with my post.
    “Remember this blog is moderated by volunteers who have put themselves in the position of making difficult judgment calls.
    Therefore, respect the Moderators’ decisions. They reserve the right to remove any comment for any reason. Know they exercise extreme prudence. All decisions are final.”

  113. Ray, McCain was not in the “cone of silence” , but he was in his usual “cone of senility”, which is nearly as good.

  114. LOLOLOLOL
    stating my experience today at a pharmacist getting a prescription for a birth control pill is an “abortion ad”???
    That is a stretch of epic, Biblical proportions.
    Nor was anything I wrote against ANY of the discussion board rules. But hey, censorship can be fun and empowering, right?

  115. You know PPC, for a Liberal, who selectively promotes equality for women, gays, pro-aborts, terrorists, etc., etc., you sure hate older people. The very people that gave you the country you live in and the abilty to speak such hate speech without censure. Perhaps you have never heard one of the Ten Commandments: “Honor thy Father and Thy Mother” (if you haven’t, thank a Liberal).
    Oh not to worry. Allowing a Liberal to expose themself on who they really are; self-absorbed, god-hating bigots who are willing to sacrifice not only the pre-born but also the elderly to promote their hate-filled agenda, is not necessarily a bad thing.

  116. HisMan, do you think McCain is too old to be President? Do you agree that the McCain of 2000 would not vote for the McCain of 2008?

  117. vLOLOLOLOL
    stating my experience today at a pharmacist getting a prescription for a birth control pill is an “abortion ad”???

    Yes.
    You’re more than welcome to post those things on your own blog/forum, etc. Please respect the fact that this is a pro-life/anti-abortion blog. Thanks.

  118. Didn’t Jill give a speach last year in DC on the importance of allowing disenting voices on her blog? I thought it was something she was very proud of.

  119. Didn’t Jill give a speach last year in DC on the importance of allowing disenting voices on her blog? I thought it was something she was very proud of.
    Hal, of course dissenting views are welcome. I’m not sure what Amanda would have been dissenting on this topic with her Plan B commercial, maybe you could explain it to me?

  120. well, it was off topic, I’ll give you that. But that sin is hardly original around here.
    I think Amanda was saying having Plan B around the house is a good way to make sure you don’t get pregnant (i.e., no Abortion) even if accidents happen.
    I would think if she made the exact same comments on a thread dealing with Plan B her comments would have been allowed. So, it must be that she was off topic.

  121. “Nor was anything I wrote against ANY of the discussion board rules. But hey, censorship can be fun and empowering, right?”
    Amanda,
    try going to a pro-choice/feminist blog and mention the word “pro-life”, you’ll get banned right away and called 4 letter words.


  122. well, it was off topic, I’ll give you that. But that sin is hardly original around here.
    I think Amanda was saying having Plan B around the house is a good way to make sure you don’t get pregnant (i.e., no Abortion) even if accidents happen.
    I would think if she made the exact same comments on a thread dealing with Plan B her comments would have been allowed. So, it must be that she was off topic.

    Nope, Hal. That wasn’t it.

  123. Hi Carla! Doing great! I am smelling the bacon and pinto beans, which are in the crockpot, and am about to fry some okra to go with them. Yum. :) Hope you’re having a great evening!

  124. Bethany:
    I have a word for you.
    You have become a powerful witness for God’s truth. Your confidence and presence have found favor with God.
    Thank your child Blessing for that and the significance of her life.

  125. You know PPC, for a Liberal, who selectively promotes equality for women, gays, pro-aborts, terrorists, etc., etc., you sure hate older people.
    I assume you are referring to her remark about McCain’s senility, HisMan. To wit, there are many repeated incidences on record in which McCain has been confused about who is fighting whom in Iraq, the fact that Czechoslovakia has not existed as a country for 15 years, and denies he said things that are on tape as recently as two or three days before. From the sheer number of these incidents, one is forced to make one of three conclusions:
    1) He is senile
    2) He is ignorant
    3) He is lying
    None of those three is a very flattering qualifier for a candidate for President of the United States.
    I have nothing against old folks. One of my grandmothers was as sharp as a tack right up until the day she died at age 82. But the other one couldn’t remember what you told her five minutes ago when she died at age 90, and if McCain is already on his way down that path, he’s got no business being in the White House.

  126. Ray,
    No excuses for Amanda, she can defend herself.
    Calling somebody senile goes right to one’s feelings towards older people. Worse yet, being a pro-abort reveals one’s feelings about the unborn.
    Again, keep posting.
    All of you pro-abort Libs are shining light on who you really are and it’s frankly disgusting.
    Truth has a way of doing that though. You see, your lies are your head and truth is the wall. Bang, loser, bang, loser, bang, loser, bang, loser.

  127. PPC:
    I’ll gladly forward your post to my attorney with a larger retainer check ordering him to sue you for slander.
    I suggest you contain your madness.

  128. Truth has a way of doing that though. You see, your lies are your head and truth is the wall. Bang, loser, bang, loser, bang, loser, bang, loser.
    You have a colorful imagination, HisMan. Enjoy your fantasy world.

  129. Just registered The Bigs for school!! Woot!
    You are such a good cook, Bethany. We’ll be there shortly for food and fellowship. :)

  130. “(Even if she had been on a Plan B thread, that comment would have been deleted.)”
    So you admit it was censorship, pure and simple, of a post that violated no rules, and was simply my telling of an experience I had today.
    God forbid we leave the truth up. Right?
    Good to know thats how things roll around here these days. =)

  131. Ray, 5:50PM
    May I remind you that Obama has toured 57 states, thinks asthmatics are treated with “breathalyzers” and “inhalators”, and has “misstated” the truth concerning his vote on the Born Alive bill.
    You were saying something about ignorance and senility?

  132. Great work Jill!
    If I could, you are the one who really deserves to be U.S. President!
    Would you still be willing to be VP for McCain? We know he’s not perfect, but he’s all we have going for us for now.
    Mike

  133. Amanda,
    It was a commercial for Plan B written by you.
    We are all guests here. Take your leave if you disagree.
    The truth about Obama is still up.

  134. God bless you, Jill, for your relentless efforts to expose the truth about Obama’s cold indifference to defenseless babies left to die without compassion, without medical care.

  135. So you admit it was censorship, pure and simple, of a post that violated no rules, and was simply my telling of an experience I had today.
    I believe I have explained myself clearly enough, Amanda. Any more dispute over this post is just childish. Thanks.

  136. May I remind you that Obama has toured 57 states, thinks asthmatics are treated with “breathalyzers” and “inhalators”
    Mary, are you claiming he’s related to George W. Bush?

  137. Doug,
    George Bush has also supported withholding life saving measures from babies who survive abortion?

  138. Ugh, you know I was just looking back at my son’s NICU pics and my stomach just gets in knots thinking that in Obama’s mind he was just a disposable piece of tissue. Let me see if I can find a pic of him from then and I’ll post it.


  139. Alright, here’s Holden at roughly 33 weeks. I don’t have his earlier pics on this computer, but you definitely get the idea. Actually, he’s about the size of 26-27 weeker in this pic so you can really get an idea of what a baby at that age looks like.
    BTW, the little stuffed animal on his back was smaller than a beenie baby.

  140. Alright…trying this again.

    Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others!
    (If this doesn’t work can a mod delete this post?)

  141. We don’t tolerate abortion ads
    I know that Jill and the Moderators are the bosses, here, but this was an eyerollus maximus.

  142. Wow Lauren, truly God’s creation.
    To think of abortionists killing a little person like that is pure evil.
    All at the alter of Choice. liars.

  143. From the alwasy insightful FRC:
    “The sparks over Sen. Obama’s abortion record didn’t end when the Civil Forum did. At a post-event interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN), reporter David Brody asked a question about Obama’s position on the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act (BAIPA). For weeks, the senator’s campaign has tried to cover his tracks on the issue, claiming that his vote against the bill was not a vote for infanticide. Instead, his spokespeople said, the Illinois senator stood alone in his opposition because Illinois’s bill didn’t mirror the federal law. The National Right to Life Committee (NRLC) produced documents proving that the state language was identical to Congress’s bill.
    On Saturday, Obama accused pro-lifers of skewing his record. “They have not been telling the truth,” Mr. Obama said. “And I hate to say that people are lying, but here’s a situation where folks are lying.” He added that it was “ridiculous” to suggest he had ever supported withholding lifesaving treatment for an infant. “…[F]or people to keep on pushing this is offensive,” he said in the CBN interview. What’s truly offensive, however, is that Obama deceived Americans about his record.
    On Sunday, his campaign issued a clarification, stating that Obama did vote against a born-alive bill that was a verbatim version of the federal law. Senator Obama must own up to his record as the only member of the state senate to vote in favor of letting abortion survivors die. Even the most radical, pro-abortion members of the U.S. Senate like Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.), and Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) don’t mirror his heartlessness. All three voted to protect innocent children through the Born-Alive Act. On voting in favor of infanticide, Sen. Barack Obama stands alone.”

  144. It used to be that when a person was wrong he/she would apologize to the person that was wronged. Not Obama. He calls people “liars” (pretty stong stuff for the prophet) and then sends out his surrogates the next day to speak to the “misrepresentations” he had made not even 24 hours before. The bottom line here is that no apologies will be forthcoming because Obama does not have the intestinal fortitude to admit he smeared the National Right to Life Committee.

  145. While agnostics say they are not quite sure, atheists are more definitive
    in their repudiation of God and His Sanctity of life.
    This emerging disorder of human logic creates a moral vacuum
    and gives license to hordes of like minded, liberal, tree-hugging Foudnaing Fathers as a test of character, morals, and leadership.
    Lying is not a leadership trait, representing one’s faith in contradiction to the tenets of that faith is not a colorful imagination, HisMan. Enjoy your fantasy abortion. And if you’d actually been paying attention you would have noticed that I havent been here even 24 hours before. The bottom line here is that no apologies will be forthcoming.

  146. “Truthseeker”, LOL, as usual you respond in the widest-eyed possible manner. How old are you? This is nowhere near important enough to be “the chance Hillary is waiting for”. To the large majority it will just be another iteration of the tired “Eeeeeew, technical details of abortion!” argument. It may fire RTLs up but it won’t cause anyone to change their minds. This election will not be decided on a “gotcha” like that.
    Posted by: SoMG at August 18, 2008 4:07 AM
    Oh, I thought that vehement denial (saying they were liars and imagining the whole thing) of an accusation and calling the accuser a liar when they were speaking the truth about you was grounds for political ruin, at least when you get caught like Obama did.

  147. Carder,
    I used to homeschool but lost my mind when I had two more babies. :) Send my bigger children to public school. They love it!
    Lauren,
    Thank you for posting the picture of your precious baby.

  148. Thanks for everyone’s kind words. I just get so emotional about the BAIPA because it is talking about babies the same age as my son was when he was born.
    Anyways, I just went to Obama’s site and there is no longer any mention of IL BAIPA on the “fight the smear” site. I’m thinking he’s hoping that everyone forgets and he can slink quietly off into the sunset.

  149. “That was not the bill that was presented at the state level. What that bill also was doing was trying to undermine Roe vs. Wade. **By the way, we also had a bill, a law already in place in IL that insured life saving treatment was given to infants.**
    So for people to suggest that I and the IL Medical Society, so IL doctors were somehow in favor of withholding life saving support from an infant born alive is ridiculous. It defies common sense and it defies imagination and for people to keep on pushing this is offensive and it’s an example of the kind of politics that we have to get beyond.”
    **By the way, we also had a bill, a law already in place in IL that insured life saving treatment was given to infants.**
    If this the case then why was the Born Alive act necessary? It wasn’t. It was an attempt to overturn Row vs. Wade.
    So far no one has yet to provide cases of Obama or Illinois medical professionals allowing newborn infants to die before

  150. Choose Life: The Abortion Dilemma from a Jewish Perspective | News …FaithStreams presents video, along with news and information, from faith groups that promotes the vitality of spiritual experiences, enables people to deal …
    http://www.faithstreams.com/ME2/Sites/dirmod.asp?sid=5F4E345683D8492B9B56CBC49802F459&nm=Get+the+News&ty... – 60k
    “Jewish law does not regard a fetus as a child. A child is a baby that is born. Abortion, even late term abortion, is not murder. Late term abortion is a dreadful choice for any woman, but to save her own life or health she may be obligated to undergo it. The medical circumstances that would dictate such a choice would clearly be compelling and highly unusual.
    According to Jewish law, an infant does not actually reach full personhood until it is 30 days old. In the days when children commonly died soon after birth, the rabbis decided that parents of infants under 30 days old would be exempt from the requirements of mourning.”

  151. According to Jewish law, an infant does not actually reach full personhood until it is 30 days old. In the days when children commonly died soon after birth, the rabbis decided that parents of infants under 30 days old would be exempt from the requirements of mourning.”
    Posted by: Mr. Unite Us at August 19, 2008 12:02 AM
    …………………..
    This group enjoys mourning. They seem to find enjoyment in suffering and would like to see more of it. Apparently their god feeds upon it. Prolonging death, pain and suffering is a sacrament.

  152. Mr. Unite Us:
    You’re out of your league and your mind.
    Unite us? What, by agreeing that God could care less about a baby until he’s at least 30 days old? If you believe this, you are a monster of the worst kind.
    And the decision not to commit an abortion is no more difficult than the decision to not commit a murder. It’s wrong, it’s murder and nothing can justify it, NOTHING.
    I defend and respect the Jewish people. Why? Because commands me to as Jews are the branches and I am merely grafted in. But that command does not include believing heresy. The evidence of my support is on my previous posts on this site and I am an evangelical Christian who strongly supports Israel. However, your post is despicable and intolerable and deserves a very strong response.
    I’m not trying to be insensitive here, however, have you heard of the Jewish holocaust? I suppose God will not hold Hitler accountable for the deaths of 30 day old and younger Jewish babies that he murdered then, at least based on your own view? Please tell that to the Jewish mothers, grandmothers, brothers, sisters, fahters, nephews and uncles of those lost babies when you finally meet them someday and try to justify your legalistic interpretation of God’s heart. Be careful, they’re likely to want to rip your throat out due to their emotional response to such a horrific notion.
    Or, perhaps Herod was not culpable in ordering the deaths of all males 2 years of age and under, or at least those not 30 days old and under in his quest to eliminate his perceived successor, the King of King and Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ, hmmmmmm? And yes, Jesus Christ was a nothing, just a “blob of insentient, non-viable, tissue and cells” until, in your view and according to Jewish Law, he reached the ripe old age of 30 days?
    What if Jesus had been killed? I guess God would have had to just start over? In light of the whole counsel fo God, your premise is absolutely ridiculous.
    I know, I know, you reject Jesus Christ as the Messiah and that’s your privilege, but please, please don’t pass your incomplete knowlege of the truth as reflecting the heart of God.
    There’s actually quite a few laws that Jews no longer practice or follow. How about the sacrificing of goats, bulls, doves, etc., etc. etc. It’s amazing how you can decide to observe one law, which is really not the Law, that justifies the murder of the unborn and born up to 30 days old and not practice blood sacrifices. How convenient. Methinks He’ll hold you accountable for your duplicitous thinking and actions.
    And let’s not forget Jesus’ very strong warnings against hurting any child to his very Jewish apostles at their rebuke of children, of course, prior to them becoming rabid followers of Christ in their full realization that HE was the promised Messiah.
    And let’s not forget Paul, a Jew of Jews, who stood up to Peter’s face and rebuked him for his heresy in agreeing with the Judaizers about the continued requirement for circumcision as a conditon of salvation, a once fundametnal Jewish law that is no longer in effect.
    You my friend are a cafeteria believer as you pick and choose what you want to believe as long as it fits what you wants to do.
    Here’s a quote from a Messianic Jewish web site to counter your misuse of God’s Word:
    “Abortion
    Ellen Kavanaugh
    “These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.” Proverbs 6:16-19
    Everyone will agree that murder is wrong. The prohibition against murder is one of the Ten Commandments: “Thou shalt not murder.” Exodus 20:13 But the argument among pro-choice advocates is that a fetus is not yet a human, and therefore, not yet subject to our laws.
    “In the womb he took his brother by the heel…” Hosea 12:3 (4)
    Jacob was attributed with human actions while still inside the womb. Further, those who recorded G-d’s Word in the Bible viewed unborn life as validly as life already born. Those still in the womb were clearly viewed as equally a part of G-d’s great plan. Let’s look at a few verses:
    “Upon Thee I have been cast from my birth; Thou art my God from my mother’s womb.” Psalm 22:10 (11)
    “And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.” Luke 1:14-15
    “Listen, O isles, unto me, and hearken, ye peoples, from far: the LORD hath called me from the womb, from the bowels of my mother hath He made mention of my name …. And now saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be His servant, to bring Jacob back to Him, and that Israel be gathered unto Him–for I am honourable in the eyes of the LORD, and my God is become my strength…” Isaiah 49:1, 5
    “And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Luke 1:41,42
    The above verses show to G-d, each life counts, even before birth. G-d says:
    “And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying: Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.” Jeremiah 1:4-5
    “And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.” Genesis 25:23
    G-d foreknew man before his birth, before his conception. Further, G-d has a plan for each and every life He gives — it is not a human right to interfere with any life G-d has sent. Notice the punishment of a person who injures a life before it is born:
    “And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow, he shall be surely fined, according as the woman’s husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.” Exo 21:22-25
    Clearly G-d viewed a life still within the womb as having the same rights as a person already born — neither may be wronged.
    Abortion is not G-d’s way — it is man’s. The Hebrew language doesn’t even have a word for ‘abortion’ because such a word simply wouldn’t be required or used among G-d’s people. Modern abortion has become much like the ancient Canaanite practices — a ritual so common and everyday that people have sadly become hardened to what it really is.
    “Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter, That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?” Ezekiel 16:20,21
    Notice what G-d says: “You have killed MY children.” Children belong to G-d, not man! Whether in the womb or already born. G-d creates and sends life, not man:
    “For Thou hast made my reins; Thou hast knit me together in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks unto Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; wonderful are Thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My frame was not hidden from Thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance, and in Thy book they were all written–even the days that were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.” Psalm 139:13-16
    But What About A Woman’s Right Over Her Own Body?
    This argument is shallow. Women do not fight for the right to cut off their hands or pluck out their eyes. Clearly, what is truly a part of a woman, she would fight to keep. A fetus is an individual in his/her own right — that child is not merely a part of his/her mother — instead, that child is a separate being residing *within* his/her mother’s body. Big difference. That fetus has unique qualities not necessary shared with the mother: his/her own blood type, gender, physical/genetic traits (eye color, hair color etc.), his/her own IQ, etc. No one denies a child already born is a separate entity from his/her mother, this argument is only brought up to defend ending the life of the fetus.
    But Isn’t Abortion Acceptable If The Child Would Be Born Handicapped/Unwell?
    Why? We’ve shown life begins within the womb — we wouldn’t murder handicapped people already alive, or go around murdering people who were ill. Think of the ramifications if we decide that’s it’s okay to murder those who aren’t ‘perfect.’ I wouldn’t want to live in a society that selectively murdered those who were weaker. In Torah, the weak are cared for by the stronger, not murdered!
    But With World Over-Population, Abortion Helps Mankind
    Why stop with those still unborn? If the world is overpopulated, why not ‘thin out’ the more populated areas now? Clearly, the arguments for abortion would be ludicrous if applied to those already born. But why can’t many see these fetuses are even more dependent on us to make fair and G-dly choices. G-d sees the population of the earth — He doesn’t require our ‘help.’
    What About Abortion In Cases of Rape?
    Of course, this presupposes that a) the fetus is guilty of his/her father’s crimes and b) that a mother could not love this child because he/she would only remind her of the rape itself. I find it hard to believe that while nursing a child, watching your child take it’s first steps, or hearing your child say “I love you” for the first time, etc. would constantly remind a person of past pain. The conceived child isn’t the enemy but is a victim every bit as much as the mother is, and needs caring and love just as much. I would argue that child is more likely to bring healing to the victim than to live as a constant reminder of past pain and suffering. If a mother would constantly live a sad life, reminded only of her past pain, I would suggest she desperately needs G-d’s healing, not the loss of that conceived child. The child, to me, would represent G-d bringing something wonderful out of something horrific.
    What About Abortion Due To Inability To Afford Another Child
    I hate to see life come down to money. If we allowed ‘right to live’ based on money, we inevitably set up a scenario where the poor are considered ‘less valuable’ members of society. Does a child born to poor parents have less a right to be born than a child born to rich parents?
    Remember, man cannot fully comprehend G-d — G-d’s ways are not our ways! All life is created by and belongs to G-d — born or unborn.
    “As thou knowest not what is the way of the wind, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child; even so thou knowest not the work of God who doeth all things.” Ecclesiastes 11:5″
    You want to unite my friend? Then think about this:
    Abortion is an affront to the creative nature of God, it negates God as Creator,
    Abortion denies the power of God to right a wrong, it negates God as Redeemer,
    Abortion makes that which is good, the birth of human life, into that which is evil, the death of human life, and then calls it good, the very definition of blasphemy,
    Abortion negates the resurrection power of God as it takes flesh that is alive in it’s earthly abode (the womb) and kills it, while God takes that flesh which is dead in it’s earthly abode (the grave) and desires to make it alive,
    Abortion’s desire is to take that which was composed from the chaotic array of elemental molecules into a symphony of life infused with an eternal soul, and turn it back to the entropy of randomness, chaos, nothingness, uselessness.
    Abortion is against all that is hopeful, all that requires faith for success; for it’s solution; annihilation, it’s goal; death, it’s dream; breaking God’s heart, it’s vision, Satan’s ultimate power.
    Abortion is a counterfeit, for the clawprints of Satan are everywhere to be found in its performance;
    Abortion disguises hate as love, bondage as freedom, choice as maturity, sin as righteousness, political correctness as wisdom,
    Abortion pits men against women, mothers against their children, fathers against God, Yes, abortion is Satan’s feeble attempt at killing God Himself, for abortion is a metaphor for Satan; it is his coat of arms, his family crest, his logo, his brand, it belongs to him……for he laughs at its willing proponents as they craft their own self-destruction, mantled in self-deception.
    Copyright 2007, 2008 by HisMan

  153. Amanda and pro-aborts:
    You are free to start your very own blogs and post whatever you want if you don’t like the rules here.

  154. “If there’s a God, I don’t think He’s evil. I think the worst you can say about Him is that basically He’s an underachiever.” –Woody Allen.

  155. Re: “… Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee,…”
    No matter how many times I read this line I keep having the same problem with it. Which is, the line seems to clearly refer to a time BEFORE conception. Conception is when He forms you in the belly, right? And it says before then, right?
    If He knew you before conception, then anything which prevents conception, including chastity, is worse than murder, including worse than abortion. At least the aborted unborn gets to enjoy a short intrauterine life during which maybe it prays to Baby Jesus in some mysterious pre-concious fetal way, right? The one whose conception is prevented doesn’t even get that.
    If He knew thee before He formed thee in the belly, then menstruation is murder. I just can’t see a way around it.

  156. If He knew you before conception, then anything which prevents conception, including chastity, is worse than murder, including worse than abortion. At least the aborted unborn gets to enjoy a short intrauterine life during which maybe it prays to Baby Jesus in some mysterious pre-concious fetal way, right? The one whose conception is prevented doesn’t even get that.
    If He knew thee before He formed thee in the belly, then menstruation is murder. I just can’t see a way around it.

    From 1 Cor 7:
    8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. (Single, unmarried)
    9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. (with passion)
    Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well. 38 So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.
    1 Thess 4:3-5
    3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that you should abstain from fornication; 4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour, 5 Not in the passion of lust, like the Gentiles that know not God:
    Rom 13:13
    Let us walk properly, as in the day; not in reveling and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and lustful acts, and not in strife and jealousy.

  157. No matter how many times I read this line I keep having the same problem with it. Which is, the line seems to clearly refer to a time BEFORE conception. Conception is when He forms you in the belly, right? And it says before then, right?
    Yes…it’s knowing beforehand that the person will exist. Not actually knowing the person before they exist. God knows in advance that the person WILL exist. And taking away an innocent already existing life is murder.

  158. If He knew you before conception, then anything which prevents conception, including chastity, is worse than murder, including worse than abortion. At least the aborted unborn gets to enjoy a short intrauterine life during which maybe it prays to Baby Jesus in some mysterious pre-concious fetal way, right? The one whose conception is prevented doesn’t even get that.
    SOMG, you could try to justify killing toddlers, etc with the same type of argument.
    “At least the toddler got to enjoy a short life on this earth. The one who isn’t even born doesn’t get even that.”
    And of course, that isn’t justification, is it?

  159. Opinionated, does that mean Jill is suspending her policy of allowing dissenting comments?
    LOL as if there are no dissenting comments on these threads. lol

  160. Bethany, I was not trying to justify anything. I was asking a question about a line from the Bible.
    And I don’t think “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee” means only that He knew that you were going to exist. If that’s all it means, why would right-to-lifers quote it as an argument against abortion? No, it means that you ALREADY existed.

  161. And I don’t think “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee” means only that He knew that you were going to exist. If that’s all it means, why would right-to-lifers quote it as an argument against abortion? No, it means that you ALREADY existed.
    No, it means we are foreknown. The fact that God knows all about us, before we even exist in the womb, is very life affirming.
    This verse may help explain better, why Jeremiah was chosen and ordained by God, before conception:
    Romans 8:28-30
    “And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according go his purpose. 29) For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first-born among many brethren; 30) and whom he predestined, these he also calledM; and whom he called, these he also justified; and whom he justified, these he also glorified.

  162. Bethany, if that’s all it means (that we are foreknown before conception) then what does it have to do with abortion???

  163. Bethany, if that’s all it means (that we are foreknown before conception) then what does it have to do with abortion???
    Do you not see the part about being formed in the womb?
    “before I FORMED THEE IN THE WOMB
    Obviously, we are a “someone” in God’s eyes, while we are being formed in the womb, and even before that, he knows all about us and has a plan and purpose for us. THAT is what it has to do with abortion. Abortion takes away a life that God has a purpose for.
    I am surprised you asked the question, to be honest.

  164. “Opinionated, does that mean Jill is suspending her policy of allowing dissenting comments?”
    SoMG, no of course not. That is how pro-choice blogs operate. We are not afraid of the truth. Just no ad’s for abortion pills please.

  165. Jasper, most of my posts are deleted, so I dispute that “dissenting comments are allowed”.
    Amanda’s comment was not inappropriate in any way, but it was removed because it offends the anti-birth control dogma of this website.
    Ironically, I was just reading about the Chinese seizing Bibles from tourists. Apparently they are “not afraid of the truth” either.

  166. Jasper, most of my posts are deleted, so I dispute that “dissenting comments are allowed”.
    PPC, most of your posts break the rules. We allow dissenting comments, but not those that break rules.
    Amanda’s comment was not inappropriate in any way, but it was removed because it offends the anti-birth control dogma of this website.
    It is inappropriate for this website. Don’t like it? Find another site to promote the pills.

  167. You know SoMG:
    Not only is your desire to destroy the intent of God’s will via unrestricted abortion and infanticide of abortion survivors, you want to destroy their souls as well.
    If we assume the scripture, “before you were formed in your mother’s womb, I knew you”, is true, why would you not want someone, let’s say an abused, drug-addicted, homeless, person who has lost all hope not want to hear that?
    SoMG: You alone, as a supporter of Barack Obama, is reason enough not to vote for him.
    If your repulsive comments could be revealed to the world as a typical Obama supporter I am sure even he would even diss you, however, I am sure he would accept your vote.
    What’s confusing to me SoMG, although your abortion poster boy, is a self-confessed Christian and claims he beleives in the God you hate or should I say, laugh at, blaspheme and so glibly dismiss, you still support him. That speaks volumes about Obama and his appeal to such a moral reprobate. You cannot serve God and mammon. Your condemnation, apart from repentance, is assured.

  168. HisMan, I do consider the candidates’ religions when I vote (I’d never vote for a Salafist Muslim or an Hassidic Jew) and Obama’s is a stroke against him. It is far outweighed by the reasons to vote for him, one of the most important of which is McCain.
    It’s fortunate that I don’t WANT to serve God and Mammon.

  169. If He knew thee before He formed thee in the belly, then menstruation is murder. I just can’t see a way around it.
    Posted by: SoMG at August 19, 2008 5:07 AM
    Is there a doctor in the house who could explain this?

  170. why doesn’t it say “Before I formed thee in the belly I foreknew thee”?
    SoMG, it was definitely foreknowledge on that part of the biblical God, though I don’t see what the big deal about “foreknew” or not is.
    Jeremiah was a bigtime priest, right? The biblical God is saying “the die was cast,” so to speak. It was known that the mother wouldn’t have a miscarriage or an abortion. This passage really doesn’t apply to abortion – it’s the biblical God saying that he had Jeremiah’s life planned out, to an extent.

  171. “If there’s a God, I don’t think He’s evil. I think the worst you can say about Him is that basically He’s an underachiever.” –Woody Allen.
    Posted by: SoMG at August 19, 2008 4:14 AM
    W. Allen is a goof ball. In the end, when it matters, your obsession with the intellect will get you nowhere. Insulting God will put you… “you know where”.

  172. The biblical God is saying “the die was cast,”
    Why are you attempting to explain a “god” (incorrectly) that you don’t believe in?

  173. Somg: “If He knew you before conception, then anything which prevents conception, including chastity, is worse than murder, including worse than abortion.”
    Somg,
    To see this as valid you must assume that before conception we are all paired with an egg on Earth and that if no conception occurs you’re out of luck. God does know us before conception but it is before we even exist in the physical realm. It isn’t until conception that he unites our spirit with a body. At least that’s my take on it. Does that make any sense?

  174. “The biblical God is saying “the die was cast,”
    Why are you attempting to explain a “god” (incorrectly) that you don’t believe in?
    Janet, the story is there, regardless of one’s belief. It’s come up many times before, and no, it’s not incorrect.

  175. I have a couple of questions for you all. Before I ask them let it be stated:
    1. I am NOT pro-choice.
    2. I am non-partisan.
    3. I am post-abortive.
    Okay, I think the idea of partial birth abortion is truly sickening. (beyond what I can express in words.) I also am apalled at the thought of legalized infanticide.
    Now that I’ve established this (please don’t attack me) know thatI only seek enlightenment.
    In these hospitals and clinics, why don’t they simply administer a drug to stop the baby’s heartbeat? (Yes, I am aware that this too is murder) but if they are going to do this type of abortion ANYWAY, why not cover themselves legally and at least ATTEMPT to make it more palatible to society?
    Also, what is the reason for not at least providing something more than “comfort care” to infants who are born alive, wanted or unwanted? (Is it an expense issue?)
    I am grateful that some hospitals do provide comfort care, (something that Jill diligently fought for when she was a nurse) but why not more than that? Can’t they be kept in incubators, and if their lungs are developed enough to intubate, provide them with such? If not, let them die, warm, cared for and allowed the same rights as a child born under the same Constitutional Rights as all of us here were provided?
    Why is it EXACTLY that severely premature babies, wanted or not are excluded?
    I know someone who delivered at 19 weeks. Her son died. She did not wish to hold the child (and truly, she was just a child herself at the time.) I was there. The family and the nursing staff at this particular Catholic hospital, placed the baby in a small bed, with warming lights and swaddled him in a blanket. He was too small for intubation. I hope and earnestly believe the small boy felt loved.
    No one in that story was amazing or heroic, people were simply doing what people are designed to do.
    I fail to comprehend why all of this heinous behavior regarding born PEOPLE exists.
    I would appreciate your input.

  176. Just A Nobody,
    I’m not sure exactly why they don’t simply kill the child before it’s born. I think it might be because some hospitals have religious affiliations that prevent them from outright killing the child but not from doing an early induction?
    Maybe Jill can shed some more light on this.

  177. Soooo, they alleviate their conscience (sp) and protect their religious beliefs by not “technically” murdering a helpless baby? Eeeeeew, now that is a twisted manipulation of a belief system!
    Thank you Lauren. I will keep checking back. :)

  178. “The biblical God is saying “the die was cast,”
    Why are you attempting to explain a “god” (incorrectly) that you don’t believe in?
    Janet, the story is there, regardless of one’s belief. It’s come up many times before, and no, it’s not incorrect.
    Posted by: Doug at August 19, 2008 2:38 PM
    Fine.

  179. In these hospitals and clinics, why don’t they simply administer a drug to stop the baby’s heartbeat? (Yes, I am aware that this too is murder) but if they are going to do this type of abortion ANYWAY, why not cover themselves legally and at least ATTEMPT to make it more palatible to society?
    Posted by: just a nobody at August 19, 2008 3:51 PM
    I’m not sure I understand the question. Are you asking why they don’t administer a drug in utero, or after birth?

  180. Hey Janet,
    I should have been more specific. (sorry about that) I meant to ask, why don’t they administer it in utero? Of course, I don’t agree that even that should be legal but…if they must continue with the practice of labor induced abortions, why don’t they guarantee the child has passed, instead of allowing him or her to suffer?
    Most of us can’t stand to watch anything suffer. I cannot fathom how doctors and nurses can stand to do this. (Just like Jill couldn’t)
    My ex husband is pro choice. When his dog had cancer, do you think he could allow “Buster” to suffer in pain and indignity? Heavens no!
    It REALLY sickens me that PEOPLE could literally do this….so I was just trying to think of intermediate (do-able) solutions until the practice could stop altogether.

  181. Oh and let me also say, (humbly), I do not presume to have any REAL solution..or any way to see that one was followed through on…I’m just thinking that, as humans we should be humane. Change takes time. If abortion is iradicated in this country, it won’t be any time soon. So little steps can promote change, and solutions that are palatable to the majority, would seem most likely to “pave the path”. I’m CERTAINLY no expert on the matter. I know things get heated here sometimes, I don’t want to instigate, just want to learn…be informed.
    Thanks!
    :-)

  182. Just a nobody @5:07,
    Thanks for the clarification. I’m not a medical professional, but I’d imagine the baby is partially delivered alive, instead of deceased, out of health concerns for the mother (It’s always the health of the mother that’s the main concern, not the baby,right?). I’ll leave it at that, because I don’t want to be any more disgusting than the situation already is.
    God bless you for standing up for LIFE!

  183. Wow, Janet, Carder, thanks so much for the kind words. I’m grinning from ear to ear. :-)
    I don’t always have so much time to sit at my computer but, I surely do enjoy listening to people with more knowledge than I posess on any given subject.
    I read here a bunch, just never post. I’m just sooo excited that this, all too important topic is getting the coverage it has so long deserved.
    KUDOS to Jill! I bet Obama had NO IDEA that all of this would come back to haunt him as it has thus far…but oh how he should have…. Jill is fierce, honest, kind and truthful. (and right in his back yard!! ROFL)(If I didn’t find his stance on this issue so appalling, I would almost pity him for having a hard lesson to learn)
    There are no greater allies or weapons more powerful than truth, knowledge and justice!!!
    Opponents armed with less, I don’t think will be able to withstand the scrutiny.
    I know post abortive women who are now pro life and a few who still sit “on the fence” Obama is converting them….correction, the truth is!
    Keep it up guys! This is FASCINATING!

  184. Just a somebody,
    I didn’t respond to you at first because your post sounded a little like, “the best way to kill a baby.” Now that I have read a little bit further, I understand what you were getting at.
    Glad you are here!

  185. It is fascinating, isn’t it Somebody?
    Now that Hannity, Limbaugh and the rest have finally picked it up, they WILL NOT let a day go by without mentioning it.
    Big sigh of relief.
    And don’t think the Lefties haven’t figured out how badly O. needs to save face on this issue. Otherwise, it’s hopeless.
    Now if we can just convince McCain not to pick a prochoice VP…

  186. Hey Carla, wow, I’m certainly not a very effective with trying to determine the best way to communicate a thought within the realms of blogger world am I? Ha Ha.
    Oh yuck, I was NOT trying to determine the best way to take a child’s life. I was mostly asking for facts and wondering aloud here as to “why” they didn’t do things differently, if they must be done at all. It’s all sick no matter how or why (IMHO) but it seems like there must be some gentler way….oh this is still not coming out right. :-(
    It just makes me sick period. If it’s going to be sickening and we cannot change it in the immediate, I just cannot comprehend WHY they allow tiny helpless babies to suffer..It’s bothering the heck out of me, right now.
    Yes Carder, I do find it fascinating, the political ramifications at least. The rest horrifies me. It also blows my mind that OB can have CHILDREN and STILL vote for infanticide.
    I’m delighted the story continues to get air time. I’m anxiously awaiting to see how he tries to get out of this one!!!
    I guess we have to wait and see…same with Mc Cain’s decision for a running mate.
    Thanks to all for the warm welcome and the answers, I’ve received so far.
    I like it here.

  187. oh btw, H & C’s political panel is about to weigh in on the “pro life hammering” on OB
    !!!!

  188. SoMG, perhaps on a subconcious level. :-)
    I am quite fond of the poem. Coooool that you asked.
    Did anyone see that last heated segment of hannity and Colmes? It got a little wild!

  189. Jill:
    Why aren’t you pointing out the fact that prior to Obama’s 2003 vote on the Born Alive Act, that under existing Illinois statute (720 ILCS 510/6) the law required any babies born as a result of a botched abortion shall recieve full medical care by a doctor?
    And I quote:
    “No abortion shall be performed or induced when the fetus is viable unless there is in attendance a physician other than the physician performing or inducing the abortion who shall take control of and provide immediate medical care for any child born alive as a result of the abortion. This requirement shall not apply when, in the medical judgment of the physician performing or inducing the abortion based on the particular facts of the case before him, there exists a medical emergency; in such a case, the physician shall describe the basis of this judgment on the form prescribed by Section 10 of this Act. Any physician who intentionally performs or induces such an abortion and who intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly fails to arrange for the attendance of such a second physician in violation of Section 6(2)(a) commits a Class 3 felony.”
    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/072005100K6.htm
    Why the oversight?
    Regards,
    CHV

  190. I think the general perception of this is: another iteration of “Eeeeeew, technical details of abortion!” supplemented by some misrepresentation or error about which of several versions of BAIPA Obama thought would undermine Roe/Wade. I bet it will last less than two weeks as an important issue and change the minds of almost nobody.

  191. SoMG, there had been some years in a row of similar bills, and as far as I know it was always a “package” of more than one bill.
    Obama, the Medical Society, etc., had legitimate objections along the way, certainly at least from a Pro-Choice point of view and in the view of the doctor/patient relationship.
    However, when it came to Bill 1082, and there’s 10 people in committee, in no way does the bill seem complex enough for there to be any confusion about it.
    6 Democrats voted against passing as amended, and 4 Republicans voted for it.
    It’s not like the 6 sat around and said, “You know, we don’t want born babies to be cared for.” The vote split right along party lines, and it’d be good to ask the 6 why they did vote “no.”

  192. Janet:
    I’m referring to the overall 1975 Illinois state law; I’m referring to the 2001 passed amendment that required a child born of a botched abortion to recieve medical care.

  193. Janet:
    I’m referring to the overall 1975 Illinois state law; I’m referring to the 2001 passed amendment that required a child born of a botched abortion to recieve medical care.
    Posted by: CHV at August 20, 2008 3:41 PM
    Should that read “I’m not referring to the overall 1975 Illinois State Law?

  194. Is it possible that this will make him the MSNBC Pinhead, Keith Olbermann’s……………….
    “THE WOOOORRSST PEERRSSSON IN THE WWOOOORLD”???

  195. face it people, obama is evil, yes EVIL, not for this country, a fake, not what he seems, or his wifie! GOD SAVE AMERICA and ISREAL, NO VOTE FOR obama!

  196. I wonder if any American would ever be aware of such things being mentioned by someone in her post here:
    http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/1662811.aspx
    scroll down to #1 comment section, especially the last comment in the #1 section, made by a certain user there (named bongkarpasang).
    I started wondering if what the user feared would really take place in the future.

  197. Links to Barack Obama’s votes on IL’s Born Alive Infant Protection Act

    Below is a listing of then-state Senator Barack Obama’s votes and state senate floor speeches on IL’s Born Alive Infant Protection Act. (At right is a political cartoon by Jack Higgins, printed in the Chicago Sun-Times on August 25, 2004,…

  198. Waiting for Obama’s apology

    National Right to Life just posted this on YouTube: Here is the August 16 interview wherein Barack Obama expressed indignation at the charge he voted against the identical Born Alive bill as state senator that passed overwhelmingly on the federal…

  199. Obama lied about turning aside as abortion survivors died

    The 3rd and final presidential debate finally saw the abortion issue broached… barely, but enough to force Barack Obama out of his fox hole to attempt to explain away his opposition as IL state senator to the Born Alive Infants…

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