Stanek to attend Democrat Convention
UPDATE, 6:40p: Am at the airport…delayed flight. I parked behind a car with 2 Obama stickers. Now here I sit facing 2 ladies with red (how appropriate) Obama shirts and buttons galore. I find myself aggravated. What have I gotten myself into? I’m reminded of the time earlier this summer I just couldn’t walk by the lady collecting Obama signatures on a petition outside Joann Fabrics. Just couldn’t. Had to debate her – on my way in the store and on my way out. I’ll have to get over that part of myself this week or I’ll be stoned by a mob.
_______________
I mentioned awhile back I had been rejected to attend the Democrat National Convention as a blogger.
Rejected bloggers were encouraged to apply to cover the convention from The Big Tent a few blocks from the convention, sponsored by Daily Kos and Progress Now. I figured why not and did.
I was surprised I was accepted(!), along with a couple hundred or so other bloggers. Sponsors said although thousands applied, they chose applicants based on geographical and ideological diversity. I may be the token pro-lifer, not sure.
But I’m happy to be going and have been treated well so far. With all the media attention on Obama/Born Alive this week, I’m not sure what to expect when I arrive, but people who know me know I like this kind of intrigue and opportunity to debate and discuss.
SO! I will be live blogging from the DNC next week! If all goes well, I’ll not only provide commentary and news but also video and photos. I have even registered to attend the pro-abortion group EMILY’s List now-sold-out gala with guest speakers Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama. Now that should be interesting. I plan also to cover pro-life events and pickets.
So when next I write it will be from the Mile High City!
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Congratulations on your ticket to the Sodom and Gomorrha Fest! Complete coverage indeed!
Wear your baseball cap and sunglasses, and a bullet proof vest might be in order.
Hannity’s going to be there, too. Maybe ya’ll can rumble together.
Jill,
Do you have a death wish?
Mary, maybe so… :) I’ve always been drawn to dangerous escapades.
Jill, my mom’s there too protesting Obama!
Of course she’s hoping for a Hillary coup, but I thinke she’s going to bet out at the “big tent” as well. She’d probably like to meet you because you’re bringing down the sacred Obama. Lol!
Make sure you take your guardian angel with you when you attend that pro abortion ‘gala’. You’ll need it.
Jill, please picket the DNC with a big sign saying “No Rape Exception!”
Jill, please picket the DNC with a big sign saying “No Rape Exception!”
Posted by: SoMG at August 23, 2008 9:36 AM
get lost somg! Try and post something meaningful once and while.
Into the den of lions she goes!! Whooooeeeeee!
This was in Christian News Wire. Are you going to take part in any of these activities?
‘Party Crashers;’ Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, Announces Civil Disobedience Times and Forums to Disrupt DNC Events
Contact: Mr. Joseph Landry, 406-860-9738, 904-687-9804
DENVER, Aug. 22 /Christian Newswire/ — Randall Terry States: “A group of pro-life activists will get arrested
Bee,
I don’t think Jill intends to be arrested because then how would she blog, share videos, etc. with us?
Intrigue and opportunity abound!!!
Our prayers are with you, Jill!
You have done such an AMAZING job exposing the truth. If the past week or so is any indication of what we have to look forward to, I may have to take a vacation day, just to sit in front of the tv and computer.
I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall at the Emily’s List Gala, just get a peek of you having “engaging conversation” with Michelle and Hillary!
Love, admiration and prayers,
Angele
No, getting arrested is not on my agenda.
What’s your opinion of Pro-Lifers using that tactic?
Just wondering.
Godspeed, Jill!
Jill is far too modest about her plans. Bob Enyart, the anti-gay extremist hate preacher has listed her as a participant in his activities,with her name listed next to anti-gay, anti-abortion terrorist Ken Scott.
The fun begins with the placing of 100,000 racist pamphlets on cars in church parking lots on Sunday. Then there will be the cage death match between Randall Terry and Troy Newman, followed by planned refusal to obey police orders,and attacks on police to provoke arrests.
Then there is the “sheets of shame”. I am not sure how hundreds of white people in sheets will court the Black community, but what do I know?
All in all, I expect it is likely Jill will experience “Gitmo on the Platte”,the temporary jail, for those who wish to make trouble.
I think it will be a great time,and look forward to hearing all about it.
Good luck!
Patricia, Jill believes abortion should be illegal in cases of rape, doesn’t she? So then why shouldn’t she demonstrate her belief at the DNC? Unless she’s ashamed…..
Good news for everyone-
Biden is his running mate, and Biden was my choice! In fact he was the most pro-life democrat running (in basic terms, moderate) and has tons of foreign policy experience.
YAY!
“But I’m happy to be going and have been treated well so far. With all the media attention on Obama/Born Alive this week, I’m not sure what to expect when I arrive, but people who know me know I like this kind of intrigue and opportunity to debate and discuss.”
I wish I could be there with you Jill, my prayers are with you :)
“In fact he was the most pro-life democrat running”
Oh PIP…please.
Biden NRTL rating in 2007: 0%
PIP,
It light of recent events of the Born-alive/ Obama media coverge, you don’t still plan on voting for Obama do you?
One more pro-life supreme court nominee would tip the scale against Roe.
and FOCA, Obama promised FOCA.
Good luck Jill! My family will be praying for you! I can’t wait to hear your stories and see your pictures!
Hey, Jill!
I love how the Osama Obama camp is touting Joseph Biden as “Pro-Abortion Catholic!” That’s an oxymoron!
Let’s see what the Catholic Bishops of Kansas have to say about that. They call it “Evil!
“Voting For Pro-Abortion Candidates Is “Evil” Kansas Bishops Say
Wichita, KS (LifeNews.com) — The Catholic bishops in Kansas have released a new voter’s guide that makes it clear supporting a candidate who favors legal abortions is “evil.” In the joint document, they say Catholic voters would “commit moral evil” by backing candidates who support abortion, euthanasia or embryonic research.
Archbishop Joseph Naumann of Kansas City and Bishops Ronald Gilmore of Dodge City, Paul Coakley of Salina, and Michael Jackels of Wichita joined together to endorse the document.
They lay out a very clear argument against abortion and how voting for pro-abortion candidates promotes the violation of Church teaching.
Despite the motives voters may have for supporting pro-abortion candidates, acts that “involve doing evil” such as “elective abortion, euthanasia, physician-assisted suicide, the destruction of embryonic human beings in stem cell research, and human cloning” must be opposed.
“Such acts are judged to be intrinsically evil, that is, evil in and of themselves regardless of our motives or the circumstances. They constitute an attack against innocent human life,” they say.
“In light of the above we would commit moral evil if we were to vote for a candidate who takes a permissive stand on those actions that are intrinsically evil when there is a morally-acceptable alternative,” they explain.
Catholic voters who support pro-abortion candidates like Barack Obama often justify their decision by saying the candidate is in step with Catholic on other political issues.
The Kansas bishops address that and seem to support voting for the anti-abortion candidate because he supports taking fewer lives than the pro-abortion candidate.
“So when there is no choice of a candidate that avoids supporting intrinsically evil actions, especially elective abortion, we should vote in such a way as to allow the least harm to innocent human life and dignity,” the bishops say.
“We would not be acting immorally therefore if we were to vote for a candidate who is not totally acceptable in order to defeat one who poses an even greater threat to human life and dignity,” they conclude.
“Oh PIP…please.”
According to on the issues:
-no public funding for abortion
-supports PBA ban
-Accepts Catholic Church view that life begins at conception
-Rated 36% by NARAL (indicating a mixed record).
-supports more access to contraception and increased education to reduce teen pregnancies.
Jill:
Bathe yourself in prayer for you are going into the enemy’s camp and their only goal is to destroy you and dilute any strength you may have against Obama.
Read the entire book of Joshua and seek God’s will. Here’s an excerpt from Joshua 1:
“6
This survey of American Catholic voters is more interesting than Jill’s planned antics:
http://www.catholicvote.net/page32/page32.html
Summary here:
http://bitchphd.blogspot.com/2008/08/out-shouted-majority.html
Highlights:
Seven in ten (69%) say they feel no obligation to vote against candidates who support abortion, and an equal number disapproves of denying communion to Catholics who support legal abortion (75%).
Catholic voters support keeping abortion legal (58% support)
They believe insurance companies should be required to cover and pharmacists required to sell birth control pills. Three-quarters of Catholics support requiring health insurance plans to cover birth control pills (75%). Nearly eight in ten (78%) oppose allowing pharmacists to refuse to fill birth control prescriptions.
Catholic voters do not approve of schools teaching abstinence only in sex education classes. Six in ten (64%) oppose requiring high school sex education programs to only teach abstinence.
PIP:
You’re for Obama then? Very, very sad.
To quote Jasper’s quote of the day:
“In Joe Biden, Obama would get one of the fiercest abortion proponents in the Senate and someone who has made a reputation out of badgering Supreme Court nominees about abortion during confirmation hearings.
In fact, before he dropped out of the Democratic primary race Obama eventually won, Biden confirmed he would have a pro-abortion litmus test for his own possible judicial picks.
“I would not appoint anyone who did not understand that Section 5 of the 14th Amendment and the Liberty Clause… provided a right to privacy… which means they would support Roe v. Wade,” he said in a November debate.”
PIP:
You are self-decieved are more dangerous to the pro-life cause than even someone like SoMG. I beg you to repent from the evil you are committing that even your church, who you pretend to follow, condemns.
I think it speaks well to the Democratic party’s Big Tent philosophy that journalists/bloggers of all political and social stripes are welcomed.
We can only hope the Republicans will be as strong in two weeks.
HisMan,
Beating a dead horse again-been through this many many times.
Hi PiP,
Not to beat a dead horse… but, think about the baby and Obama’s comments that a woman shouldn’t be punished for an unexpected pregnancy by having to carry the baby to term. Hasn’t your experience so far given you pause?
PPCTo be serious for a moment, Jill is listed on Bob Enyart’s website, right next to Ken Scott, and Ronald Brock, both of whom have done about 7 years in prison for anti-gay and anti-abortion threats and violence.
Maybe Enyart admires Jill’s tenacity. He should! What’s wrong with that?
SoMG @ 11:37,
Where do you find such classy websites? A picture of a little girl giving the finger? Catholics for choice? Of course, they have an agenda. Yikes!
Janet-
Right now people seem to be under the impression that pregnancy is a death sentence, or a disaster, or a punishment instead of an opportunity and a beautiful process. One way to change this perception is to implement policies that lend help to pregnant women and stop doing silly things like firing single pregnant women on that basis alone. We need to change this perception.
This is something people on both sides need to work on.
PIP:
Sorry to beat a dead horse but the horse was resurrected by your comment.
Wasn’t Joe Biden just selected yesterday and didn’t you just express joy at the VP selection of a gross pro-abort who also claims to be a Catholic?
If you think I am going to let your distorted and heretical views of what being a Christian means poison just one more Catholic’s or Christian’s mind by your pollyannish statements without a retort, forget it.
Joe Biden is a murderous pro-abort selected by a murderous pro-abort who both claim to be believers. They are merely vicious wolves in sheep’s clothing who are using their expression of faith as a lever to power. To support them in any way is an act of evil. The Bible declares such and your faith’s elders declare such. I guess that means that God declares such as well, unless of course, you’ve got a more direct line.
PiP,
I think there are more pro-lifers out there than you might think who are all in favor of helping single mothers. Cases like the school that fired the pregnant teacher are few and far between. To care about pregnant women, we have to make sure they care enough about babies to stay pregnant! Once they decide to have their babies, then facilitating the policies for pregnant women is the next obvious step. Do you think your candidate is going to care about any of that? He can’t even say he’s against abortion. I hope you will reconsider. God bless.
Patricia, Jill believes abortion should be illegal in cases of rape, doesn’t she? So then why shouldn’t she demonstrate her belief at the DNC? Unless she’s ashamed…..
Posted by: SoMG at August 23, 2008 11:08 AM
because you crackpot, whatever her views are, that’s not the place to do it…
Jill’s business is to report on the DNC.
Try to focus a little better and try to stop denigrating the Catholic faith somg. We already know how much you hate Catholics….
To associate onesself with Ken Scott in any way is extremely unwise. He is a violent crazy person who might attack you suddenly for no reason. OK–maybe not for no reason but because he thinks he sees horns sprouting from your forehead. And he’s very big–quite capable of killing you with his hands. If you’re in a room with him and he’s not in restraints, then you should consider your life in danger.
It’s also very bad for public relations.
Janet, are you suggesting that the people who did the poll I posted (Belden, Russonello, & Stewart) are deliberately misrepresenting the results??? If not, then what difference does the sponsor’s agenda make?
Patricia, I don’t hate Catholics. Most of them are victims of their faith.
Jill, I hope all goes well for you! Very exciting. :)
Be safe and stay strong! (And give Hannity a big ol’ hug from me if you see him. LOL)
Patricia, I don’t hate Catholics. Most of them are victims of their faith.
Posted by: SoMG at August 23, 2008 12:39 PM
yeah, right! rotfl
me thinks you have a chip on your shoulder somg because the Catholic Church teaches the truth about sex, abortion, marriage and homosexuality…..
Patricia:
SoMG doesn’t just hate Catholics, Christians and God, he/she hate him/herself.
How do I know this?
Well, to cut off one’s only way to salvation is, the supreme expression and evidence of self-hatred and insanity.
How else do you think he/she can kill innocent babies in the womb and think it a noble cause? It’s how Jon Edwards can cheat on his dying wife, it’s how Bill Clinton can be a sex addict, it’s how Barack Obama and Joe Biden can support infanticide and abortion and think it a noble cause. Their hearts are wicked and not made clean by the washing of the word.
Proverbs 15:11 Even Death and Destruction hold no secrets from the Lord. How much more does he know the human heart!
Proverbs 26:25 They pretend to be kind, but don
Janet, are you suggesting that the people who did the poll I posted (Belden, Russonello, & Stewart) are deliberately misrepresenting the results??? If not, then what difference does the sponsor’s agenda make?
Posted by: SoMG at August 23, 2008 12:38 PM
Yes, quite possibly, or their sampling does not represent the views of Orthodox Catholics. You should know better than most that a study results are easily skewed, although as a scientist, you probably wouldn’t want to admit that.
I certainly do not agree with this generalization about Catholics from catholicvote.net (Catholics for choice):
The Catholic Voter in Summer 2008
Catholic voters, who make up 25% of the American electorate, show little interest in so-called values issues to help them decide who should be the next president, according to a survey of 1,033 Catholic voters conducted July 8 to 15, 2008. Instead, they want the next president to focus on the basics of improving the economy, ending the war in Iraq, and keeping the country safe from terrorism.
By the way how does the study define “values issues”? “Catholics show little interest in values issues?” What a silly conclusion. Talk about accurate reporting of the facts! Your study says nothing.
Janet:
This warning about SoMG:
“To associate onesself with SoMG in any way is extremely unwise. SoMG is a violent crazy person who might attack you suddenly for no reason. OK–maybe not for no reason but because he thinks he sees horns sprouting from your forehead. And SoMG’s very big–quite capable of killing you with his/her hands. If you’re in a room with him/her and she/he’s not in restraints, then you should consider your life in danger.
It’s also very bad for public relations.”
Signed:
50,000,000 Anonymous and Murdered Babies
Patricia, I don’t hate Catholics. Most of them are victims of their faith.
Posted by: SoMG at August 23, 2008 12:39 PM
yeah, right! rotfl
me thinks you have a chip on your shoulder somg because the Catholic Church teaches the truth about sex, abortion, marriage and homosexuality…..
Posted by: Patricia at August 23, 2008 12:56 PM
Amen, Patricia!
Janet:
And what better way to “focus on the basics of improving the economy, ending the war in Iraq, and keeping the country safe from terrorism”, than by following God’s ways? Hmmmm, ya think it means ending legalized abortion?
Hello, annyone out there, hello?
Toodles to what you said, Patricia!
Janet, you wrote: “their sampling does not represent the views of Orthodox Catholics. ”
Right. It represents the views of AMERICAN Catholics.
And any polling company that deliberately misrepresented results to its sponsor (as you suggested) would be out of business right quick.
I joined my cradle Catholic husband last year and became “one of them!” We had been married five years before i joined RCIA classes. I was raised in a church with I deep dislike for the Catholic faith. In fact, when I met my husband I told him there was NO way I would ever turn Catholic! However, after sending my youngest to a Catholic school and examining the faith further I knew that I needed to join the church. The teachings of the church on abortion, birth control and the family were exactly what i felt was missing in the church where I was raised.
Now having said all that, I do not believe that Catholics are victims of their own faith. I choose to be Catholic, unlike my husband, and I am proud that I have a chance to take part in the blessed sacrament every week! There really are not any “rules”, to me it is more like common sense.
Thank you for sharing, Becky. Very well said.
And any polling company that deliberately misrepresented results to its sponsor (as you suggested) would be out of business right quick.
Posted by: SoMG at August 23, 2008 1:37 PM
However, it would be interesting to see the exact wording of the questions and the available response choices given respondents.
I am a natural born skeptic. Reporting results without the methods is a short cut people use for the sake of brevity, but it can also obscure meaning.
Even if a survey is “representative” the questions can be intentionally or unintentionally biased.
If I went around the mall asking guys if they ever cheated on their current girlfriend or wife, I doubt I would get a very honest answer from the men who were standing next to said wife or girlfriend. In fact, I doubt you would get most people to be honest on this question period.
Im with you hippie.
Hippie and Oliver, you can find out all about the details of the poll by following the links I posted. As one of my profs used to say to me, don’t be so f*ckin’ lazy!
Jill, I’m not sure what or where this “Democrat Convention” is that you claim to be attending. The Democratic Convention, as displayed in your purloined graphic, is in Denver next week.
Democrat Party, Convention, whatever, is a childish epithet. Are you really immature enough to call us the equivalent of us calling the Republicans the Repugnant Party? And just in case you were previously ignorant of this issue, consider yourself informed as of now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(phrase)
Sure, Hippie and Oliver, since you are lazy slugs who would never think if someone else didn’t put ideas into your heads, here:
http://www.catholicsinpubliclife.org/pdfs/appendixc.PDF
I havent gotten very far and I have already run into a possibly biased question.
The poll asks for how you feel on various issues and one of the questions is “protecting a woman’s right to choose an abortion.”
This language is loaded. It presupposes that the “right” is clearly established. Certainly it is legaly, but ethically it is questionable.
Heres another gem.
“Keeping government out of private moral decisions”
Heres another good one.
“Allowing scientists to use stem cells obtained from very early embryos, to find cures for serious diseases such as Alzheimer’s, diabetes and Parkinson’s”
Yes, do tell us all about the good side, survey! You mean they can cure really serious diseases?? Why not!!
I also question the represenative nature of this survey. 36% of the Catholics surveyed reported that they only attended “religious services” a few times a year. In fact, 18% reported never, which would mean not even for Christmas and Easter. Only 27% of these Catholics attend church every Sunday, which interestingly enough is an awfuly close number to the number of Catholics who “strongly disagree” with the idea that abortion should be legal – 25%
I wonder if this survey isnt more accurate as a random sampling of the population than it is of Catholics.
SoMG, Janet, you wrote: “their sampling does not represent the views of Orthodox Catholics. “
Right. It represents the views of AMERICAN Catholics.
I should have said “traditional Catholics”, although in informal conversation I have heard both terms used interchangeably.
And any polling company that deliberately misrepresented results to its sponsor (as you suggested) would be out of business right quick.
Hey, I’m a skeptic like hippie.
Good work, Oliver.
This survey would be like surverying the Jewish population and then trying to say that the results were a good indicators are people who follow the Jewish faith.
Catholicism has almost become as manditory upon birth as Judiasm. I have several buddies who would claim to be Catholic that do not believe a single word of the Bible. They were confirmed and that is what they default to.
SoMG, what is your point with the poll? These are “Catholics” who dissent from Church teaching. The Catholic Church does not teach truth based upon opinion polls.
Oliver, I don’t think you are a lazy slug — I think you’re awesome! :D
I think her point was that even Catholics support abortion, oh wow!
The problems associated with drawing those conclusions have already been discussed. A good portion of these “Catholics” dont even go to mass for Christmas or Easter.
Who knows though? Maybe SoMG was just trying to say “look a survey. I think surveys are interesting.”
You cant read too much into her words without making some unjustifiable assumptions…
SoMG is a he. :)
My bad, I saw somebody calling SoMG a she and thought maybe I was just sexist assuming that he was in fact a “he.”
None of you knows my gender. I could be she, he, or one of those rare cases with ambiguous genitalia.
SMoG is a troll
My bet is ambigious. :)
Good news for everyone-
Biden is his running mate, and Biden was my choice! In fact he was the most pro-life democrat running (in basic terms, moderate) and has tons of foreign policy experience.
YAY!
Posted by: prettyinpink at August 23, 2008 11:08 AM
pip, you are right about Biden and I am glad you are happy about him. He was the least offensive Democratic presidential candidate (to the unborn). And that is actually kind-of sad.
1) How can he say he is willing to accept his church’s teaching on life…here it is what his church actually teaches:
“Human life is sacred because from its beginning it involves the creative action of God and it remains for ever in a special relationship with the Creator, who is its sole end. God alone is the Lord of life from its beginning until its end: no one can under any circumstance claim for himself the right directly to destroy an innocent human being.”
You can read that and a lot more really good stuff about his church’s teachings at:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a5.htm
You’d find that he isn’t true to his faith with respect to abortion rights.
2) He is running on a ticket under Barack Obama and that COMPLETELY DISQUALIFIES anybody who cares even remotely about the unborn from voting for Biden.
Hippie and Oliver, you can find out all about the details of the poll by following the links I posted. As one of my profs used to say to me, don’t be so #$*^$%#% lazy!
Posted by: SoMG at August 23, 2008 3:11 PM
well, the same might be said about you – you have NEVER tried to learn the truth only what suits your lifestyle somg..
that being said, most polls reflect that fact that in America (and I might add, Canada too) a large percentage of Catholics are cafeteria Catholics – choosing and picking their beliefs to suit their lifestyle – i.e. they are apostates….
As Eileen said, the Church does not teach doctrines based on the newest fad determined from the latest opinion poll.
The Church’s business it to teach the truths of the faith and in today’s world, those truths can be hard to live by
The Catholic Church has always been counter-cultural, as Christ himself was in his time.
In fact there are countless polls that demonstrate that practicing believers of most Christian faiths are the ones who are consistently prolife, profamily
Good news for everyone-
Biden is his running mate, and Biden was my choice! In fact he was the most pro-life democrat running (in basic terms, moderate) and has tons of foreign policy experience.
YAY!
Posted by: prettyinpink at August 23, 2008 11:08 AM
…………………………………………..
Biden was my choice as well. I’m very happy Obama got something right.
anon @8:10pm was me
I’m now spanking my computer!
I just read the top of Jill’s post about seeing people with Obama stickers etc…
I can relate.
Good time to offer this up as a penace Jill. The purpose is come back ALIVE
(Uncle Sam pointing at you) America (‘s unborn) NEED you!
PiP,
I think there are more pro-lifers out there than you might think who are all in favor of helping single mothers. Cases like the school that fired the pregnant teacher are few and far between. To care about pregnant women, we have to make sure they care enough about babies to stay pregnant! Once they decide to have their babies, then facilitating the policies for pregnant women is the next obvious step. Do you think your candidate is going to care about any of that? He can’t even say he’s against abortion. I hope you will reconsider. God bless.
Posted by: Janet at August 23, 2008 12:32 PM
………………………………….
Women give birth every day. When will the facilitating policies for women start? When every pregnancy results in a live birth?
Like never?
Odd that you expect women to continue pregnancies because they are supposed to care about babies in a society that cares nothing about them.
I joined my cradle Catholic husband last year and became “one of them!” We had been married five years before i joined RCIA classes. I was raised in a church with I deep dislike for the Catholic faith. In fact, when I met my husband I told him there was NO way I would ever turn Catholic! However, after sending my youngest to a Catholic school and examining the faith further I knew that I needed to join the church. The teachings of the church on abortion, birth control and the family were exactly what i felt was missing in the church where I was raised.
Now having said all that, I do not believe that Catholics are victims of their own faith. I choose to be Catholic, unlike my husband, and I am proud that I have a chance to take part in the blessed sacrament every week! There really are not any “rules”, to me it is more like common sense.
Posted by: becky at August 23, 2008 2:15 PM
BECKY: welcome to the Catholic faith, sister!
I have a good friend who was not Catholic and she married a CAtholic guy. After SEVEN children, she converted -but he was losing HIS faith. She became a very strong Catholic due to the witness of all of us homeschooling moms and she brought her husband back to HIS faith!! They had their EIGHTH child last year! How’s that for a swweet story.
Accepts Catholic Church view that life begins at conception
Demonstrates his schizophrenic approach to life.
supports more access to contraception
Just doesn’t support THAT Catholic teaching…the cafeteria pleases him more.
A: “I strongly support Roe v. Wade. I wouldn’t have a specific question but I would make sure that the people I sent to be nominated for the Supreme Court shared my values; That’s why I led the fight to defeat Bork, Roberts Alito, and Thomas.”
And, BTW, there is no such animal as an “American Catholic” as some kind of equal substitute with some special quirkiness of “choice”. There are universal Roman Catholics who happen to live in America. The other inference is simply of the cafeteria catholic type – no integrity or identity.
Women give birth every day. When will the facilitating policies for women start? When every pregnancy results in a live birth?
Like never?
Odd that you expect women to continue pregnancies because they are supposed to care about babies in a society that cares nothing about them.
Posted by: Sally at August 23, 2008 8:22 PM
Sally why are you putting the blame on prolifers. It’s the women’s movement who deflected the cause away from the issues that have mattered the most to women (especially the average mother) and onto the agenda of reproductive rights involving abortion and birth control. The women’s rights movements of the 1970’s to the 1990’s never represented the views of most women – women who wanted good health care for their kids, good obstetrical care for themselves, the choice to be able to stay at home and raise a family (now all we’ve got is the choice to be a career woman) AND be respected for their contribution, as well as the opportunity to get a good education and respect in the work place. Most women did not want these things at the expense of men – which is largely what has happened.
Of course, now where do we see the women’s movement on the issue of female infanticide and sex-selection abortion? Not a peep from western feminista’s to help their sisters in the Third World change policies that see girls circumcised, drowned in a bucket at birth because they are a girl, child-brides, kidnappings of Christian girls forced into Muslim marriages — where are they?
And, BTW, there is no such animal as an “American Catholic” as some kind of equal substitute with some special quirkiness of “choice”. There are universal Roman Catholics who happen to live in America. The other inference is simply of the cafeteria catholic type – no integrity or identity.
Posted by: KC at August 23, 2008 8:39 PM
actually KC you are right – but the Pope did make a statement about the American Church and how it has this liberal, self-serving, independent mindset. He reminded Catholics in America that they are PART of world wide Catholicism and therefore bound to obey the teachings of the faith. In fact, American Catholics in their liberality, are a minority in the Catholic Church – something they quite obviously forget!
Sally @ 8;22,
Women give birth every day. When will the facilitating policies for women start? When every pregnancy results in a live birth?
Like never?
Odd that you expect women to continue pregnancies because they are supposed to care about babies in a society that cares nothing about them.
No, not “like never”. Reducing abortion and improving the lives of pregnant women should go hand in hand. We have made strides in this country to increase corporate daycare and paternal leave policies.
PPC (Planned Parenthood Conspirator):
Ken Scott has dedicated the vast majority of his
life, since paying you evil people for an abortion,
trying to spare others the pain and anguish that
has torn him apart.
He loves his neighbors as the Good Book says – warning
those about to make the mistake of their lives – witnessing
the love of Jesus to any who will listen.
Sadly, the hard hearts of you death peddlers appear to
be immune to truth.
Prayers that Stan will remain a chilling reminder to you all
that you might not have the opportunity to have a death
bed conversion!
“Am at the airport…delayed flight. I parked behind a car with 2 Obama stickers. Now here I sit facing 2 ladies with red (how appropriate) Obama shirts and buttons galore. I find myself aggravated.”
LOL..
Jill,
I imagine being around all those Obama sheeple can be dis-heartening, don’t let it effect your spirits, you have the truth on your side.
Jill:
My son and daughter-in-law live in the Denver area.
If you want to find a good church to go to tomorrow or just have lunch with a great couple, e-mail me and I’ll give you their contact number.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8&e
HisMan, wow, great ad by McCain!
Anon, you wrote: “that being said, most polls reflect that fact that in America (and I might add, Canada too) a large percentage of Catholics are cafeteria Catholics – choosing and picking their beliefs to suit their lifestyle ”
LOL “a large percentage”. It’s a large MAJORITY.
Interesting that when the results show that most Catholics believe contrary to what you do, then they’re not “real” Catholics. But when you want to bolster your own sheeple desires, you claim, once baptized or confirmed, always a Catholic.
But intellectual honesty has never been a Catholic trait – always easier to keep the masses satisfied if they don’t think.
PIP 11:08am
I hate to burst your bubble, but Biden was who Rush hoped Obama would pick.
I’m not trying to be facetious but I think that was a major red flag the Obama campaign should have heeded, and I mean that very seriously.
Anon, you wrote: “that being said, most polls reflect that fact that in America (and I might add, Canada too) a large percentage of Catholics are cafeteria Catholics – choosing and picking their beliefs to suit their lifestyle ”
LOL “a large percentage”. It’s a large MAJORITY.
Posted by: SoMG at August 24, 2008 1:58 AM
SoMG, I still fail to see your point of citing a poll. Unfortunately many Catholics since the late 60’s have been poorly catechized. That is beginning to change. Most of those who dissent from Church teaching are in the “graying and aging” population. Those who are embracing the truth are the young, the hope of the future. They are rejecting your nihilistic philosophy. Catholics for Choice have left the Church already so to speak. Most of them are bitter, angry people who simply want to force their agenda which is pro-abortion, pro-homomsexual lifestyle, women’s ordination, etc. Numbers mean nothing. Even if all but one Catholic dissented from Church teaching; the teaching would not change. You can not change the Truth.
But intellectual honesty has never been a Catholic trait – always easier to keep the masses satisfied if they don’t think.
Posted by: phylosopher at August 24, 2008 6:58 AM
“But intellectual honesty has never been a Catholic trait – always easier to keep the masses satisfied if they don’t think.
Posted by: phylosopher at August 24, 2008 6:58 AM
It’s precisely because they don’t think or inform themselves that many Catholics blend in with the rest of society or they insist on embracing sin and are basically having a tantrum until they are told that it is acceptable.
“Interesting that when the results show that most Catholics believe contrary to what you do, then they’re not “real” Catholics. But when you want to bolster your own sheeple desires, you claim, once baptized or confirmed, always a Catholic.”
No they are Catholics because once you are baptized as a Catholic, you are a Catholic unless you formally defect from the Church. Saying that Catholics aren’t “real” Catholics because they dissent is just a figurative way of speaking, like saying it rained cats and dogs. I don’t know about you, but Catholics are not literalists. All one has to do is consult the Catechism to find out what the Church teaches. There is no ambiguity.
Just to further clarify, if anyone means that someone who dissents from Church teachings isn’t a Catholic in the literal sense, then they are wrong. But most people in 21st century America don’t talk like that. For example, recall the Seinfeld episode “The Little Kicks” where Elaine dances. After Kramer sees her dance, what does he say? He says “No, that ain’t dancin’.” Well technically Kramer, it WAS dancing. However, we know he doesn’t mean it in a literal sense; like he thought she was really playing horseshoes as opposed to dancing. He meant it wasn’t good or aesthetically pleasing dancing.
This is the same idea when we say someone isn’t a Catholic. We don’t mean that their stance on abortion has automatically made them a non-member of the Church; just that they aren’t acting like a Catholic ought. BTW even excommunication does not mean “you are not a Catholic anymore.”
Bobby, I knew you would explain it beautifully…
SoMG
The Church is a communion of people with other people as well as a communion of people with God. There are certain truths which must be accepted, on faith and with reason, in order to fully participate in this communion. Those truths, when put into practice forbid treating other people as commodities. Everybody is to be treated with dignity and respect, because everybody is created in the image and likeness of God, (even you SoMG) and invited to share in this communion (catholic = universal). This is why the Church teaches against those practices which treat others as mere commodities (divorce, artificial birth control, homosexuality, abortion, slavery, socialism, unchecked capitalism, etc) , to be used and/or discarded for one’s selfish pleasure or gain.
Yes, these are difficult teachings. They have huge implications for our lives. We are all sinful. We all fall short. We have all used others for one purpose or another. To follow these teachings requires big changes in our hearts and attitudes and we can’t do it alone. Faithful Catholics recognize this, and yet strive to do better. They go to Mass, they study Scripture, and they avail themselves of the Sacraments so as to receive the graces necessary to conform their lives MORE (and yet we still fall short) perfectly to Christ’s. By the time Holy Communion is distributed, much has already taken place to affirm the communal nature of the Church including the praying of the Creed which expresses the tenets of the faith. Therefore, when one presents oneself for Holy Communion, one is, in essence, putting an exclamation point on it. It is a public action which is supposed to say “Yes, I believe all that has been said and gone on here today and I believe fully in the teachings of the Church.”
Unfortunately, too many Catholics worldwide have no understanding of this. They have been swayed by their cultures, and sadly, by too many Protestant churches giving in to these cultures. In laziness they cling to a faith tradition they were baptized into as a child, and yet never take the time to learn why the Church teaches what she teaches. So they live their lives not embracing their faith, but not rejecting it either. They are lukewarm and apathetic. And they are in error when they come to Mass and present themselves for Holy Communion. They are lying, because they say with their bodies, “I believe!” while their hearts say, “No, I don’t!”
But the Church will never yield in these teachings. To do so, would be PERMIT its members to treat others without due dignity and respect for their personhood and thus break the communion that Christ himself has set in place. So, while all who have been baptized Catholic will remain “Catholic” providing they do not formally reject their tradition, many, in their failure to believe, have PLACED THEMSELVES outside of the communion (excommunicated) and for all practical purposes, are not really Catholics.
Welcome to the Catholic Church, Becky!
Les 9:25pm Unfortunately, I cannot repond here about Ken Scott, as Jill will censor any comments about him. She apparently is not proud of the poeple she is snuggling up with in Denver.
Before this disappears, anyone who wants to know about Ken Scott can google his name, and first check out the article in Westword magazine.
Patricia,
Thank you! I have seen my husbands faith grow stronger through the whole RCIa thing, being a sponser he learned some things he never learned in cAtholic school.
Welcome to the Catholic Church, Becky!
Posted by: DeeL at August 24, 2008 9:50 AM
Dittos! :)
LOL “a large percentage”. It’s a large MAJORITY.
Posted by: SoMG at August 24, 2008 1:58 AM
I’m with Eileen in that a large percentage of Catholics have not been properly catechised today and have little understanding of why the Church teaches what it does, especially in the areas of sexual morality – which is where most of the dissent lies.
You can’t realistically and honestly (from an intellectual point of view) dissent from a Church teaching unless you thoroughly understand it. I doubt many of these dissenters have even HEARD of Humanae Vitae, let alone read it (it’s not a difficult read).
In the same way unless you know the teaching of the Church, and understand the theology behind it, you cannot criticize it either.
A Catholic baptized Catholic that is, has an indelible mark upon the soul. Unless he/she renounces that faith in a special way, that soul is always Catholic. This probably one reason there are alot of “reverts” inthe church. It’s hard to shake the faith!
No one wants to see anyone stoned by a mob. No one deserves that. Just the same if you expect Anti-choicers to be treated with respect you ought to have the same respect for those you oppose. Just because those you oppose sometimes do not listen to their better angels does not give you the right to scream at them for merely having an opinion. If the souls of the unborn have god given dignity then what happens to those who are alive and standing before you even as you disagree with them. Sometimes the best things that people can say to those they disagree with is a silent prayer.
Sometimes the best things that people can say to those they disagree with is a silent prayer.
Amen to that.
DeeL — you beat me to it.
As I said, Bobby, they’re Catholic when you want the numbers, and not Catholic when someone disagrees. That’s why many who have had abortions and used bc, and vote for pro-choice politicians – and quite obviously donate to, act and advertise those convictions still continue to receive their Sunday donation envelopes from the RCC. If the Pope, bishops or church were really concerned with dogma, they’d act to excommunicate. But it is the stuffing in those donation envelopes that keeps them from doing so – what hypocrites. They’re nothing more than CFO’s of another capitalist institution – only difference is they’ve got a broken, passe product.
And Patricia – does it involve a secret handshake,too???? A little cannibalism at midnight? Doooooo tell!
“As I said, Bobby, they’re Catholic when you want the numbers, and not Catholic when someone disagrees.”
As Patricia and I both pointed out, once you are validly baptized, you are a member of the catholic Church unless you formally defect. So no, they’re not not Catholic when someone disagrees.
PIP 11:08am
I hate to burst your bubble, but Biden was who Rush hoped Obama would pick.
I’m not trying to be facetious but I think that was a major red flag the Obama campaign should have heeded, and I mean that very seriously.
Posted by: Mary at August 24, 2008 7:07 AM
Rush???? OMG, LOL. The man who wanted Hillary? The man who thought McCain would ruin the republican party (little did he know how hard right McCain would go).
Obama knows what he’s doing. Biden is very popular among working class, white, and Catholic voters. He’s also appealing to a lot of others (like me)
He have a nice speech Saturday.
Jill, How’s the circus?
If the Pope, bishops or church were really concerned with dogma, they’d act to excommunicate.
The Church very rarely excommunicates. Unfaithful Catholics excommunicate themselves simply by being out of union with the Church and her teachings. There is no formal hearing and subsequent ejection. They are simply excommunicated (out of communion). In most cases, the Church doesn’t even know a member has excommunicated himself/herself, until the member chooses to become faithful. It is then, with a changed heart he/or she will make a confession of their unfaithfulness, and reconciliation takes place.
But it is the stuffing in those donation envelopes that keeps them from doing so
Roughly 66% of registered Catholics attend Mass and partake of Sacraments at some level. Of those, about half actively support their parishes with their Time, Talent and Treasure. So basically, you have 33% of the parish supporting the 33% that participate with some regularity as well as the 33% that show up only when they want a Church wedding or need to bury their dead. Our parish regularly operates at a deficit a good portion of the year. I hardly think it’s about the money.
By the way, Jill, I love your new Home page!
So, my friend could see fireworks opening the DNC or something the other night from her dorm, and apparently Obama will be accepting the nomination in the field right next door to where she’s dorming, which makes me kinda jealous. But I guess snipers etc have been set up on the rooftops of the school too which is creeping her out a bit, lol. Not to mention all the FBI and all that swarming around. lol.
As for the disussion of Catholic voters, here’s how I see it.
They may be acting against doctrine, however that does not take away their status as catholics. It may be a sin or an error in doctrinal practice (if the two are not one in the same)but regardless, human nature makes every single catholic a sinner, and every person sins regardless. Perhaps they will go to confession or maybe they won’t, but either way they are catholics until they leave the Church.
I think I may technically still be a Catholic, not exactly sure how it works. I was baptized but was never Confirmed, so I don’t think so, but who knows. It’s always been a bit confusing.
Hal, 4:19PM
LOL. You should listen less to the MSM. Rush did not want Hillary, he wanted to keep the chaos going in the Democrat primary and party. He figured Republicans wouldn’t go after Obama but Hillary, if still in the race would, and she did.
Rush succeeded. Hillary’s supporters are furious by what they perceive as her mistreatment by the MSM and the Obama supporters and most polled said they would not vote for Obama. You’ve got Hillary getting her name in for nomination and she and Bill taking up two nites of the convention. Heck, Obama didn’t even vett her for VP. Big time diss. You thought her supporters were mad before….
This just gets better and better.
I find it hilarious that Rush just said last Thursday or Friday he hoped Obama would pick Biden. I think the Obama campaign should have seen this as a huge red flag. The last thing they should do is anything Rush would want. I seriously doubt he as Obama’s best interests at heart.
Really Hal, if Rush supports Biden for VP, you better be wary.
As I said, Bobby, they’re Catholic when you want the numbers, and not Catholic when someone disagrees. That’s why many who have had abortions and used bc, and vote for pro-choice politicians – and quite obviously donate to, act and advertise those convictions still continue to receive their Sunday donation envelopes from the RCC. If the Pope, bishops or church were really concerned with dogma, they’d act to excommunicate. But it is the stuffing in those donation envelopes that keeps them from doing so – what hypocrites. They’re nothing more than CFO’s of another capitalist institution – only difference is they’ve got a broken, passe product.
And Patricia – does it involve a secret handshake,too???? A little cannibalism at midnight? Doooooo tell!
Posted by: phylosopher at August 24, 2008 3:45 PM
this post constitutes hate speech…
if you wrote this about gays, everyone would jump all over you, but it’s fine to bash the Catholic Church, isn’t phylo?
due to this bigotry and the propogation of misinformation and hate, I will not bother with you phylo. You’ve shown your true colours – an ignorant bigot filled with hate….
BTW it’s the masons who have the secret handshake and work to destroy the church – maybe you are one phylo since you know about such things…
All I know is that I go to worship and adore my King of Kings, the Master, Jesus Christ, King of the World….!!!
DeeL @ 4:46,
An aside – I believe the percentage of parishioners who support their parish is even lower than you state, of course, depending on the age/income demographics. I believe in my parish, at least 75% of the monetary donations come from only about 10-15% of the parishioners. Of course we can’t forget the countless people who donate their time and talents to church ministries to make the parish run smoothly. These days, a parish cannot survive without its volunteers and they all should be highly commended for their sacrifice for their Church!
Mary-
Not a diss, many hillary supporters said theyd be MORE angry if she took the VP spot. I say put her on the SC, much better use of her talents and she gets the life long legacy and can do a lot of good. Hillary will help more than hurt Obama in the end I think, it will prove that despite the divisions in the party, everyone can come together for a common cause when needed. More and more supporters who said they would defect are coming into the fold, I’m not too concerned about it.
Then again, democrats have always been more candidate driven than party driven, unlike republicans. Perhaps this election will be a change, with dems going out for the party and stopping the repubs, and repubs staying at home because they dont trust McCain.
“this post constitutes hate speech…
if you wrote this about gays, everyone would jump all over you, but it’s fine to bash the Catholic Church, isn’t phylo?”
I know huh Patricia. Imagine if somebody here said the same thing about gays. Yea, it’s not first anti-Catholic hate screed Phylo has posted…
Patricia-
You are aware the masons have to pledge belief in a Higher Being and will work to serve the moral/ethical purposes of said Being (in your book, that’d be God).
Amen, Patricia! I love it when you get all riled up! :o)
Wait, what is this anti-Catholic speech? I must admit I just joined the discussion and these couple of days have been my first time posting for a loooooooong time.
OK. In the Catholic understanding, baptism is the sacrament of initiation which makes one a member of God’s Church i.e. the Catholic Church. Everyone who is validly baptized is thus initiated into God’s church with an indelible mark on the soul as the catechism states in paragraph 1267
1267 Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ: “Therefore . . . we are members one of another.”72 Baptism incorporates us into the Church. From the baptismal fonts is born the one People of God of the New Covenant, which transcends all the natural or human limits of nations, cultures, races, and sexes: “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.”73
Now, in paragraph 1272 states
1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation.83 Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.
Notice, “No sin can erase this mark.” Hence, people who are Catholics but commit grave sins ARE STILL CATHOLICS. These are the words from the Catholic church herself, not my words or my opinion. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm
So that should settle the matter.
Seriously, Patricia and Jasper, Catholic-bashing is accepted everywhere in our society. When are things going to change?
Right, Bobby. The Truth is written in stone. Did you hear the reading at Mass today? “On this Rock, I will build my Church.”
Janet-
I don’t think basing of any kind should be accepted in society, whether it be of catholics, gays, liberals, conservatives, jews, muslims, etc. I do grant that bashing of religions in general seems to be more accepted. I’ve had to stop attacks on all the major religons, though mostly Christianity and Islam, far more often than I should.
Yes Janet. Here is a great read on the subject http://www.amazon.com/New-Anti-Catholicism-Last-Acceptable-Prejudice/dp/0195176049/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219617612&sr=1-1
Bobby-
great clarification. Still been toying with the idea of rejoining, but I still cant quite bring myself to because I have disagreements, no matter how big, with church doctrine. However I am looking at churches in the area where I am moving and at churches in Boston. Seems I’ve found one that seems to be seeking out those who feel the way I do or may feel alienated etc from the church, so I may give that one a shot.
Good Dan. So the Catholic Church will always consider you a Catholic unless you actually write a letter to the Bishop telling him you don’t wish to be one anymore (I think it’s actually a pretty complicated process)
I’ve said this before to you Dan; that while I do think it is a mistake for you to leave the Catholic Church, I very much respect your attitude and your respect for the way the Church operates. Like Amanda, you understand that if you are going to belong to an organization, you have to follow its rules. But yeah, keep searching, and know that you are in the prayers of so many of us on here. And of course, we’re always here if you have questions. God love you friend.
“Did you hear the reading at Mass today?”
Oh Janet, I did indeed. I love how they read it with Isiah 22. Always the Old with the New, and it’s never arbitrary!
As you know, the readings are in a three year cycle, and the last time this gospel was read (three years ago), I was in my honeymoon in Florence Italy, and my new bride and I heard that reading at mass at the Cathedral in Florence, the one with the giant duomo (spelling?) designed by Bernini. What a beautiful memory!
Hi Dan 5:14PM
It good to see you back. I’ve missed seeing you on the blog. I must respectfully disagree about Hillary. Her supporters are not happy as it is and the fact that Hillary was not even considered won’t score any points with them.
Most polled said they would not support Obama, someone saying that was close to 5 million voters. NOt insignificant.
I believe the Clintons themselves would view this as a diss. Any notion the Clintons have gone graciously into the sunset is naive and dangerous.
I understand some super delegates are turning tail and switching to Hillary. Also where the polls are concerned, Obama isn’t exactly leaving McCain in the dust. And let’s face it, the bloom is off the rose where his messianic qualities are concerned, which is about all he had to begin with. Even Democrat stalwart Geraldine Ferrero expressed her disappoint at his Saddleback performance.
I just don’t see this being a peaceful, unified convention. Hillary’s got her name in for nomination, so much for going quietly into the night, and the Clintons plan to be center stage for two nites. I will say its been an interesting political season, for a change.
5 million voters isnt insiginificant, but it isnt espescially significant either. There are something like over 200 million registered voters in the U.S. And with voter turnout and whatnot the way it has been in this election, that number is likely to increase as well as the increased participation of the formerly apathetic youth will play a huge role in this election as well. 5 million lost votes arent great, but I highly doubt they will defect to McCain if they truly support hillary. I see them simply choosing not to vote, which will possibly hurt Obama, but not on the scale everyone is predicting.
Dan,
I just got a news item in my e-mail. Apparently 11% of Hillary, moreso Bill, supporters will need some strong convincing from both Hill and Bill before they will vote for Obama.
Bill is not pleased with how he was treated by the Obama campaign and it is him these voters will be listening to. Not so much what he says but how he says it.
Also, 5 million voters can make or break the election in swing states, sometimes won by only a few hundred thousand votes, where the race is already tight.
I also read protesters are already pouring into Denver. There’s a group arriving there called “recreate 68”, hoping to recreate the 1968 Democrat convention fiasco.
Hey guys. As I’ve mentioned before my mother was an elections official in TX and witnessed massive voting fraud.
The caucus frauds throughout the nation have now been documented.
http://www.lynettelong.com/CaucusAnalysisCorrected.pdf
This report is massive, but I suggest reading the section regarding TX because we have a strange voting system that was able to best detect the, shall we say, inaccuracies.
Please read this with an open mind. This should frighten anyone who believes in democracy.
Dan, you wrote: “Then again, democrats have always been more candidate driven than party driven, unlike republicans. ”
** Reagan **
To learn about Ken Scott, start here:
http://www.westword.com/1997-02-13/news/the-fight-of-their-lives/
Here’s a sample.
“We saw stolen precincts where Obama organizers fabricated counts, made false entries on sign-in sheets, suppressed delegate counts, and suppressed caucus voters. We saw patterns such as missing electronic access code sheets and precinct packets taken before the legal time, like elsewhere in the state. Obama volunteers illegally took convention materials state-wide, with attempts as early as 6:30 am. Some of this was presented in a press release from Clinton Campaign Counsel Lyn Utrecht, but I witnessed worse than what she disclosed.
In one example of fraud that I witnessed, one of my precinct captains, an elderly Hispanic woman, called me to report that BHO supporters had illegally seized control of the convention. During our series of phone calls, Mrs. “A.” reported that the Obama people took the convention materials and did not have a legal election of officers. Like nearly all of El Paso, BHO people would have lost such an election in this majority-Hillary, Hispanic, mostly elderly precinct convention.
The Obama people ordered Mrs. A. to sit across the room during the delegate calculation, and excluded Hillary supporters from the process. Mrs. A. overheard an Obama supporter call in a false delegate count to Austin. In a 13 delegate precinct where Obama should have won approximately 4 delegates, the Obama supporters attempted to award 19 delegates to Obama. This was not innocent. During my attempts at cell phone diplomacy, the Obama “chair” hung up on me, and refused to talk to the ethical Obama organizer I was paired with at another precinct convention. As with all major attempts at fraud that we identified, this delegate count was rectified in private at the county TDP headquarters, according to TDP rules, but there were no public charges or sanctions. It is my opinion that people should be in jail, but there is not a mechanism for this sort of prosecution, certainly not within TDP rules.
Although I have only volunteered in one state, virtually every Clinton staffer I have talked to has similar stories from other caucus states. While the Hillary field campaign operates and feels very much like typical Democratic campaigns, the
drlynettelong@aol.com http://www.caucusanalysis.org 77
Obama campaign is something new to Democratic politics. From my perspective, it looks like it has copied the worst attributes of Republican campaigns, but with unprecedented zeal.
Ironically, only in very well-organized areas like El Paso were we able to even identify the scale of the attempted irregularities. In these areas, we were also able to rebuff most attempts at fraud, correct fraudulent delegate counts, and protect our voters. In less well-organized areas, we did not have enough eyes and ears to identify or stop fraud, and our numbers plunged.
Although affidavits have not been made public, I have copies and records of the voter complaints for which I did interviews. Although the Hillary campaign has not gone public with evidence of fraud, the national legal team has approximately 200 such affidavits and 2000 voter complaints. The campaign intends to win the popular vote without airing these charges in public, but I suspect the campaign will provide authorities with this evidence upon request.
My own sense is that this information should not be withheld from delegates, since it both casts the Obama campaign as stunningly unethical, and it severely undermines the general credibility of caucuses. It also points out that perception and reality are upside down. The campaign that will “do anything to win,” including the illegal acts documented in affidavits, is not Hillary’s.
In fact, I was as proud of the integrity and transparency of the Hillary campaign in Texas as I was of the Capps and Clinton/Gore campaigns of the 1990s.
I would be happy to share records in my position with appropriate authorities.
It is true that elements of the Obama campaign appeal to our better angels, but, in the moment of truth when the Obama campaign echoed Republican Tom Bordonaro’s, I made the personal decision that Sen. Obama cannot be our nominee.
I am positive that any Democrat who witnessed what I did would stand against Sen. Obama now, and I have faith that some endorsements like Rep. Capps’s are temporary. This is wrenching for a Democratic activist like me who has served on county and Assembly District committees, but I cannot support a candidate with a criminal campaign.
Here at MyDD, I’ll try to make time to answer factual questions.”
This is from a volunteer field organizer in El Paso, Texas and investigated irregularities for three weeks after the election.
Lauren, after 2000, no Republican has any business complaining about ANY voting irregularity.
If the Dems opened the ballot boxes and selectively removed Republican votes, Republicans would STILL have no business complaining about it after 2000.
Erm, SoMG…these are DEMOCRATS complaining.
Lauren-
those on both sides, Clinton and Obama, claim voting irregularities that favor them in numerous states including theft of caucus sheets, changing of votes on sheets (documented at numerous colleges from Obama to Clinton for the most part) etc. Some states want to go so far as to investigate voter fraud of those who switched parties in the primaries, due to loyalty statements etc signed by those who switch sides. They want to investigat voter fraud for those who switch back, (i.e. Republicans following operation chaos) because it is a blatant attempt to mess with the primary system nation wide, state to state.
Bobby,
How appropriate was that Gospel to where you were! Someday I’d love to see Italy! Happy anniversary! Three years? You’re still newlyweds. Thank you for the book recommendation, I put it my “books to read” folder.
On a more serious note, we need to pray that the hearts of Americans will be touched by this abortion issue and remembered when casting their votes in November. The next few months will be critical for the future of the unborn. Lord, have mercy on us.
Lauren 7:01PM
LOL. It was also a Democrat who designed the Florida ballot Democrats claimed they couldn’t comprehend. My mother who lived in Florida said you had to be a blithering idiot not to be able to understand it. I also understand that a group of second graders were given the ballots, and had no trouble comprehending them.
Some Democrat congressman down there whined that consituents called his office crying about the ballots and that they had voted incorrectly.
Right, if I realize I made a mistake voting I’m going to call my congressman and cry?
You don’t vote correctly its your own stupid fault.
Dan, 7:24PM
To do that they would have to determine who you voted for and why. Being this is not Stalinist Russia that will be virtually impossible.
One is within their legal rights to switch parties and vote as they see fit.
Rush has his legal bases well covered where Operation Chaos is concerned.
Dan, the problem with the primary system is that the people running the primaries have a favored candidate and that colors their objectivity.
Really, people without a vested interest should run the primaries. Perhaps the Republicans could run the the Democrats and visa versa. Of course, that would open up a whole ‘nother can of worms. LOL.
Dan says “I highly doubt they will defect to McCain if they truly support hillary”
Nope, they want Obama defeated at any cost. The majority of the 5 mil are going to vote for Mccain because it’s a double hit to Obama as opposed to simply not voting.
The plan is to get Mccain in for 4 years (they figure he’s old and wont run for a 2nd term) and then get Hillary in 2012.
Lauren 8:02PM
Hillary has seen what can happen to the best laid plans!
Lauren-
then they are truly inattentive. Hillary’s time is truly done, she has nearly no shot in 2012, even if Obama loses. There will be a large loss of vigor in the party as far as the youth vote is concerned (the “we really cant do anything” mentality of defeat after such good prospects) and Obama supporters wont forget how she didnt quite give her full support, nor did she urge her husband to do the same.If word gets out it was hillary supporters who prevented Obama from getting elected, you can bet bitterness will be abound on the Obama side and Clinton will likely lose in the primary stages. Not to mention, I think there could be better choices, so unless the battlefield is suddenly cut down, though with those mysterious deaths around the Clintons republicans like to point out, who knows, ;). Oh conspiracy theories.
Well the Arkansas DC’s death was a bit manchurian candidate’esque…
Oh Janet, I did indeed. I love how they read it with Isiah 22. Always the Old with the New, and it’s never arbitrary!
As you know, the readings are in a three year cycle, and the last time this gospel was read (three years ago), I was in my honeymoon in Florence Italy, and my new bride and I heard that reading at mass at the Cathedral in Florence, the one with the giant duomo (spelling?) designed by Bernini. What a beautiful memory!
Posted by: Bobby Bambino at August 24, 2008 5:48 PM
How wonderful!
We cannot afford 4 years of BHO or JB as our leaders. May God have mercy on thier misguided souls.
Jill, God Bless you for bringing this to light. I just pray the american people wake up and see who BHO is, a wolf in sheeps clothing.
Hello Jill
You are a brave woman sent to us by God. You have indeed earned your wings. My husband and I own a small town weekly newspaper in Iowa. Is there any chance that you could email me a condensed version of your story about the baby? Or if you would prefer, we could run the whole story and do it in 2 or 3 weekly sections. I know you are a very busy lady. (I know good journalism publishes both sides, but the liberals have all the media coverage they need, while also trying to get passed the “Fairness Doctrine” to get rid of all our conservative talk radio). My prayers are with you this week as you attend the Demons Nasty Convention for your safety. I do hope you have ARMED body guards. There are some really, really sick people running around this planet. Again, be safe. God bless you and thanks for giving us out here in internet land a chance like this to say hello and to send you our prayers personally. You are a gift from God.
Sally why are you putting the blame on prolifers.
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Blame for what exactly? Not being able to keep their noses out of women’s crotches?
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It’s the women’s movement who deflected the cause away from the issues that have mattered the most to women (especially the average mother) and onto the agenda of reproductive rights involving abortion and birth control.
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The women’s movement has deflected health care, child care, domestic violence issues? Oh that’s right. You’re the Canadian that doesn’t have to concern yourself with these things. It’s all about you getting lots and lots of kudos for the astounding feat of gestating. You aren’t the first woman to feel unappreciatedfor what we do Patricia.
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The women’s rights movements of the 1970’s to the 1990’s never represented the views of most women – women who wanted good health care for their kids, good obstetrical care for themselves, the choice to be able to stay at home and raise a family (now all we’ve got is the choice to be a career woman) AND be respected for their contribution, as well as the opportunity to get a good education and respect in the work place. Most women did not want these things at the expense of men – which is largely what has happened.
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And what do you think that you are doing Patricia? If all women are forced to be stay at home mothers, society will provide all the things you feel you and your children lack? Sorry honey, it doesn’t work that way.
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Of course, now where do we see the women’s movement on the issue of female infanticide and sex-selection abortion? Not a peep from western feminista’s to help their sisters in the Third World change policies that see girls circumcised, drowned in a bucket at birth because they are a girl, child-brides, kidnappings of Christian girls forced into Muslim marriages — where are they?
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You would have to actually read something other than anti-choice google searches Patricia. Feminist organizations brought all that you mentioned to public knowledge many years before there were bloggers. Because you didn’t know about it isn’t something to be proud of if you wish to pretend to care.
No, not “like never”. Reducing abortion and improving the lives of pregnant women should go hand in hand. We have made strides in this country to increase corporate daycare and paternal leave policies.
Posted by: Janet at August 23, 2008 8:51 PM
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Who is we Janet?
Sally @ 11:32,
Who is we Janet?
It’s an impersonal “we”. I don’t have specific names, if that’s what you are looking for. Google “Best Companies in the U.S. to Work For”. Many of the companies have corporate daycare programs and/or paternal leave policies for the convenience of their employees who have children.
Hello Jill Stanek, I have emailed this information to You 2 times before but have not received a personal answer from You-I feel it is an important issue to consider and so will post it here. I knew nothing of Illinois abortion practices until I found out from another Moma at http://www.cafemom.com, where I contribute regularly. I had become interested in how this allowing of aborted Babies to die because I looked at it as a “slippery slope” type of legal issue: others that don’t believe in using “accepted AMA procedure” for Babies that are wanted, block treatment to their Babies-so many of those Babies die before the hospital can get a court order to apply the treatment. Of course, I do mean Jehovah’s Witnesses, primarily-would the type of legislation Barack Obama wants, protect Jehovah’s Witnesses, if their Babies died as a result of avoiding a blood transfusion and/or them not being prepared to offer their Baby any other therapy (non-blood which has never been used on pre-term or new born Babies)? Also, what about Mothers that decide they don’t want their Babies because they weren’t the sex they wanted? If they were to have their Babies privately, they could say it was an abortion-and possibly escape punishment. Or Babies born out-of-wedlock, for that matter. Have You considered all these types of situations? Do You think Barack Obama or Joseph Biden have? What connections has He had personally with any of the religions that would potentially benefit from these types of situations? (Jehovah’s Witness, Christian Scientist, ect). Have You consulted with Lawyers regarding any of these scenarios? Thanks for being Brave!////
Carolyn, and MomaNana, I will be forwarding your posts to Jill, as she probably hasn’t had a chance to view them yet. I’m sure she will be delighted to help you in any way she can.
Well, I see you took your UGLY pill late last night Sally. Did it help you sleep any better?
The FACT is that women who want to stay home and raise their kids cannot!
The FACT is that if a man abandons a stay-at-home mother for another woman, since the feminista’s have deemed that no woman shall EVER be beholden to a man, she is forced out to work, no matter what the age of the children in the family. The courts usually will NOT order support to maintain some semblance of family life for the sake of the children.
The FACT is that the major players in women’s feminist activism have been strangely silent on what has been happening in China for decades. When Steven Mosher first outed the Chinese government for the forced abortions, how did the liberal proabort elite react at Stanford (?) – they refused his thesis and fired him. After all, abortion IS the sacrament of the liberal religion.
The FACT is that we see and hear few western feminists doing anything for women in other countries to change attitudes towards women. It has largely been the Catholic Church that has been helping these women. Who was picking up discarded baby girls in India for decades – Mother Theresa.
What is the feminist idea of women care? Abortion, birth control pills, plan b, RU-486 – in other words drugs, drugs and more drugs to control, sterilize and maniupulate womens bodies to be like mens. They don’t want to understand how a woman’s body works – they want to interfere with it, twist and deform it’s beautiful function and cry out for even more technological intervention when they’ve messed women’s bodies up even more.
Get real Sally. Face the facts that feminisim as we experienced in the last 50 years is a FAILURE.
You would have to actually read something other than anti-choice google searches Patricia. Feminist organizations brought all that you mentioned to public knowledge many years before there were bloggers. Because you didn’t know about it isn’t something to be proud of if you wish to pretend to care.
Say what? the last sentence doesn’t even make sense!
If the above is true, then the feministas are guiltier than I suspected because they knew but did NOTHING in order to protect a “woman’s right to choose (aka abortion)”. Funny, that’s not a right the women in the third world want or even care about!
Patricia wrote: “The FACT is that if a man abandons a stay-at-home mother for another woman, … the courts usually will NOT order support to maintain some semblance of family life for the sake of the children.”
Another “fact” (I’m sorry, I should say “FACT”) from Patricia, like the “fact” that Planned Parenthood “denies there are any risks to abortion”. Reality doesn’t intrude on you AT ALL, does it, Patricia?
Sally, maybe “we” is the royal we. As opposed to the royal wee, which you find in the royal potty.
Patricia wrote: “The FACT is that if a man abandons a stay-at-home mother for another woman, … the courts usually will NOT order support to maintain some semblance of family life for the sake of the children.”
IN FACT, somg, this is my experience and several women friends experience in the courts. It was only because I put my ex through professional school and gave up a sizeable income and good career that the court recognized HIS responsibility to me and the children in this way. But it took my family $25000 to get this ENFORCED!
So before you blow your opinion in so easily, consider that others may have experience other than what you’ve had. You spend your life destroying other’s lives, remember? Or do you block that reality out too, MISTER!
Patricia, when was this? Oh yes, and you’re Canadian aren’t you? Maybe Canada is different. I think judges are pretty serious about child-support these days in the USA.
It’s amusing that you call me mister. In England, surgeons (who are descended from barbers, the ones who kept and used blades) were called mister rather than doctor for a long time. Even though they all had MDs.
Jill, I have an idea. Find someone handing out the McCain condoms and take one gracefully. Then when one of these liberal wackos want to debate you, simply pull out your condom blow it up and let the air out to mimic flagellants.
That should say it all, and set the record straight….
The FACT is that women who want to stay home and raise their kids cannot!
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And that is something you wish for society to pay you to do. Good luck with that.
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The FACT is that if a man abandons a stay-at-home mother for another woman, since the feminista’s have deemed that no woman shall EVER be beholden to a man, she is forced out to work, no matter what the age of the children in the family.
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And this was different when? You can thank feminists for having options besides scrubbing toilets or taking in laundry to earn your own living.
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The courts usually will NOT order support to maintain some semblance of family life for the sake of the children.
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I get that you feel you are contributing something to society by raising the children you created. I fail to understand why you feel that society should support you and your children as well. If it never occured to you that your husband could take a hike or die on you, that’s really your own naivity.
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The FACT is that the major players in women’s feminist activism have been strangely silent on what has been happening in China for decades.
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Why would the feminists spend a lot of time yakking about something they cannot change? What would be the point?
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When Steven Mosher first outed the Chinese government for the forced abortions, how did the liberal proabort elite react at Stanford (?) – they refused his thesis and fired him. After all, abortion IS the sacrament of the liberal religion.
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How did you jump from feminists to the academic elite? Apparently you lump everyone and everything that intimidates you together as one big conspiracy to dash your desire to be deemed a domestic goddess.
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The FACT is that we see and hear few western feminists doing anything for women in other countries to change attitudes towards women.
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You are quite insane if you believe that any organization can waltz into foreign countries and change societal attitudes.
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It has largely been the Catholic Church that has been helping these women. Who was picking up discarded baby girls in India for decades – Mother Theresa.
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Picking you discarded babies helps women? How? What does that do to change societal attitudes?
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What is the feminist idea of women care? Abortion, birth control pills, plan b, RU-486 – in other words drugs, drugs and more drugs to control, sterilize and maniupulate womens bodies to be like mens.
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You are very bitter. That you would have been happy avoiding supporting yourself by gestating until it killed you doesn’t make that every woman’s desire for herself.
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They don’t want to understand how a woman’s body works – they want to interfere with it, twist and deform it’s beautiful function and cry out for even more technological intervention when they’ve messed women’s bodies up even more.
Get real Sally. Face the facts that feminisim as we experienced in the last 50 years is a FAILURE.
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I get it. Ability to govern your body and earn your own living isn’t what you want. Finding a man to support you hasn’t worked and you are bitter.
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You would have to actually read something other than anti-choice google searches Patricia. Feminist organizations brought all that you mentioned to public knowledge many years before there were bloggers. Because you didn’t know about it isn’t something to be proud of if you wish to pretend to care.
Say what? the last sentence doesn’t even make sense!
If the above is true, then the feministas are guiltier than I suspected because they knew but did NOTHING in order to protect a “woman’s right to choose (aka abortion)”. Funny, that’s not a right the women in the third world want or even care about!
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And you know what women in third world countries want. @@ You can’t even be honest about what you want.
Sally @ 11:32,
Who is we Janet?
It’s an impersonal “we”. I don’t have specific names, if that’s what you are looking for. Google “Best Companies in the U.S. to Work For”. Many of the companies have corporate daycare programs and/or paternal leave policies for the convenience of their employees who have children.
Posted by: Janet at August 25, 2008 12:41 AM
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I see. You like to include yourself with those that have actually worked to make things happen.
It’s amusing that you call me mister. In England, surgeons (who are descended from barbers, the ones who kept and used blades) were called mister rather than doctor for a long time. Even though they all had MDs.
Posted by: SoMG at August 25, 2008 2:13 PM
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The doctor that delivered my son in Oxford was Mr. Roberts. I don’t think that the titles have changed even though that was some time ago.
One of my ancestors was a surgeon at Cromwell’s court. The family name became Barber due to his vocation.
IN FACT, somg, this is my experience and several women friends experience in the courts. It was only because I put my ex through professional school and gave up a sizeable income and good career that the court recognized HIS responsibility to me and the children in this way. But it took my family $25000 to get this ENFORCED!
So before you blow your opinion in so easily, consider that others may have experience other than what you’ve had. You spend your life destroying other’s lives, remember? Or do you block that reality out too, MISTER!
Posted by: Patricia at August 25, 2008 8:27 AM
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Did your ex force you to give up your good paying job?
Thanks Bethany. That question about how does Mother Theresa saving Babies in India have a societal effect on Women? She wouldn’t if Women never hear about it. A high percentage of Women wouldn’t if they were poor: No radio, Tv, Computer, Newspaper, etc OR pacifistic religiously-in which case they would be encouraged to not be involved at all. Unless the Woman is Roman Catholic, or a Church sponsored or supported by the Roman Catholic Church, Most people stay within their own religious bounds and think their religion is doing the ‘best’ job in whatever regard. ////
Patricia, Sally has a good point. The Feminist Movment is why you have the option of getting a job other than as a secretary or a cleaning lady or any of the sh*t jobs women worked in the 1950s.
Apparently is a sh*t job to be a secretary or a cleaning lady. Be very ashamed of yourselves for working those jobs…
I guess I wouldnt be shocked to hear that coming from the mouth of a doctor. We all know how amazingly important your job is and how all the rest of us are tiny ants for working “unimportant” jobs.
John McCain is arrogant? This is what arrogance looks like SoMG
Jill,
Do you have a death wish?
Posted by: Mary at August 23, 2008 9:14 AM
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Mary dearie, do you have any idea of how your post is being played out by Jill?
It is clear from the above poll that Catholic voters don’t really care about Pro-Life causes. It is being left up to the Evangelicals to fight for the unborn infants.
Shame on you Catholics.