Breaking news: AZ Planned Parenthood covers up statutory rape

Press release from Lila Rose and Live Action Films just out:
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New hidden-camera footage from Tucson, AZ, implicates a 3rd Planned Parenthood clinic in a multi-state child abuse scandal. In the video, UCLA student Lila Rose and her friend Jackie Stollar enter a Tucson PP clinic where Rose tells the nurse that Stollar, posing as a 15-year-old, is pregnant by her 27-year-old boyfriend. The nurse disregards the age difference and even cautions Stollar not to bring her “boyfriend” before the judicial hearing required in AZ to waive parental consent for an abortion….

See video on page 2.

This negligence is punishable under AZ law.
“Is he not a minor?” the PP nurse, who identifies herself as Araceli, asks. When Rose says, “He’s 27,” the nurse urges the girls not to bring him to the hearing: “I wouldn’t take him with me, no. I mean: don’t take him.”
The video is the 3rd released in a national undercover probe called the “Mona Lisa Project.” The project, conducted by the student-led CA nonprofit Live Action, records on video PP employees as they respond to statutory rape. Rather than reporting the rape – as the law requires – PP clinics hide the identity of the statutory rapist and offer secret abortions.
In the past 2 months, the Mona Lisa Project has exposed similar cases at two PP clinics in IN. In response, both clinics either fired or suspended employees, and state prosecutors launched investigations into PP of IN. [Read stories here and here.]
“These videos demonstrate that PP, the nation’s largest abortion provider, is entrenched in an organization-wide policy of circumventing state law and concealing the sexual abuse of young girls,” said Live Action’s president, Lila Rose.
This is not the first time PP of AZ has failed to report sexual abuse. In 2002, an AZ judge found the abortion provider negligent for failing to report the sexual abuse of a 13-year-old girl by her 23-year-old foster brother, who brought her to a Phoenix-area clinic for an abortion in 1998. After PP kept silent about the abuse, the sexual relationship continued and led to a second abortion 6 months later.
While noting that today AZ Attorney General Terry Goddard is scheduled to deliver the keynote address at an event sponsored by PP, Rose urges AZ prosecutors to follow the lead of IN state authorities and investigate the full extent of PP’s sexual abuse cover-up.

Good job on the timing of the video’s release. And while all 3 videos have been well-produced, this one is superiorly produced.

136 thoughts on “Breaking news: AZ Planned Parenthood covers up statutory rape”

  1. Bobby Bambino,
    I just don’t understand how they can be so dense. They’ve been caught how many times already?
    A former police officer once told me that criminals are basically very stupid. He could count the really intelligent ones on one hand with fingers to spare.
    That must explain it.

  2. They must not care, Mary. I mean, they REALLY must not care.
    Actually, either that, or covering up is SO ingrained in what they do, it is SO MUCH a part of how they train their employees, that it is almost impossible to weed out and change. It would be like all of a sudden, not being allowed to dribble the basketball in the NBA or something.

  3. PP employees are “entrenched in an organization-wide policy of circumventing state law and concealing the sexual abuse of young girls”
    …..hmmm..maybe somebody could pose as a “new” recruit and get that on tape…
    But this is really getting ridiculous..One salmonella case and the entire peanut butter-eating world is up in arms……while we have documented evidence of wrongdoings by PP at almost every turn and nothing happens???

  4. Why are more videos turning up? Because Lila did this last summer (same as the Indiana videos), before PP had a notion this was going on. Now, of course, Lila’s face is probably on posters in PPs all over the country with warning signs.
    I’ll admit, this one is not as extreme as the previous ones in Indiana. Reading between the lines, I know what was being implied. However, I would like to have seen a few more minutes when the video ended, to see exactly how the counselor reacted.
    I’m also assuming that Lila filed a FOIA request to confirm that no report was filed. That was mentioned in previous videos, but not this one. Still, though, I hope Lila’s videos will draw some attention and wake people up about PP. But we all know the media won’t touch this one.

  5. Good news. Exposure takes time and coverage. The theft by reason of overcharging the states and other crimes have a cummulative effect. The self destruction behaviors of the PPH will kill it one day. Kinda like Obama nominating tax cheaters. One day it starts to haunt Wunder Barry.

  6. “How many billions did you want for the Abortion Bailout?”
    I think 330 million or so sounds about right, ehh Carder?
    Missed you too. Nice to finally see a pic!

  7. Oops, you wrote “billions” not “millions.” Yeah, I’m almost a professor of mathematics…

  8. Do patient confidentiality rights not present a problem to Planned Parenthood when it comes to reporting statutory rape? It seems to me that would be an issue. Are the laws clear cut on this?
    Beyond that, while Planned Parenthood (not to be confused with Planned Piratehood) might be concerned about the statutory rape, they might be more concerned that by becoming a whistle blower these young women will simply continue to have the sex, but without the protection and healthcare, creating an even bigger problem. Do you think?

  9. It’s called mandated reporting, asitis, and you don’t get a choice. Remember in those disclosure forms you sign at every medical office about the release of medical records? One of the exceptions involve legal mandates.
    Teachers are also subject to this mandatory reporting in most states, despite the fact that it could theorhetically dissuade someone from confiding in them.
    The harm of allowing abuse to continue outweighs the false compassion of “well, at least it will be ‘safe’ rape.” And what less “protection and healthcare” could a 15 y.o. girl pregnant by a 27-y.o. man have?!? “Well, after this abortion she’ll be a customer with birth control getting raped. And we’ll even give her some of our worst-rated condoms for her rapist. And if it fails, well, there’s always another abortion. After all, it doesn’t hurt, it’s just uncomfortable.” Honestly, how will a handful of bc pills help someone in the situation in the video? PP would be enabling the perp, not helping the victim.

  10. How does their behavior show any concern at all?? I see their concern of wanting to appear concerned about rape but not concerned enough to do anything at all about it.
    I cannot begin to fathom what goes through their brains except $$$$$.
    Hi Virginia!!! How are ya?? :)

  11. Michael, I was thinking beyond the couple that they turn in…..
    And honestly, is it crystal clear to the health care providers and teachers that they must report the statutory rape? Or are the laws on this ambiguous?
    Are teachers and school counsellors reporting these cases as well? Or are they also remaining silent for conflicting reasons?

  12. How does their behavior show any concern at all?? I see their concern of wanting to appear concerned about rape but not concerned enough to do anything at all about it.
    I cannot begin to fathom what goes through their brains except $$$$$.
    Hi Virginia!!! How are ya?? :)
    Posted by: Carla at February 3, 2009 2:28 PM
    Hi Carla! I’m good thanks. Feisty as ever! You?
    Are they being paid the big bucks to work at Planned Parenthood, these nurses and assistants. You are right, there was no concern shown in the video clip for the fact that it’s a 15 year old girl and 27 year old man. One would hope that they might have something to say to the girl about that. If so, Lila would hardly have included it though! And perhaps they actually stir completely clear of that because of their conflictinging responsibilities to patient rights, reporting requirements and health care/reproductive services.

  13. Feisty too, my friend!! :)
    As a teacher I was a mandated reporter and report I did!! The obvious neglect and abuse of my special education students was reported by me BY LAW!
    Why is Planned Parenthood above the law?

  14. Why is Planned Parenthood above the law?
    Posted by: Carla at February 3, 2009 2:55 PM
    Good question! It seems that not only is PP above the law, they have a direct influence on whether laws are enforced or not.

  15. Oops, you wrote “billions” not “millions.” Yeah, I’m almost a professor of mathematics…
    Posted by: Bobby Bambino at February 3, 2009 1:41 PM
    millions, billions what does it matter – it’s alot of money going to kill future citizens and prevent the birth of many more future citizens….

  16. Posted by: asitis at February 3, 2009 2:33 PM
    As the wife of a school administrator I can say FOR SURE that teachers are aware they must report even suspected cases of rape or physical abuse. At the beginning of each year they hold an institute day about what to look for and how to report. New teachers are given information by their school administrators.
    If PP isn’t doing that it’s their NEGLIGENCE, not the fault of an ambiguous law.

  17. millions, billions what does it matter – it’s alot of money going to kill future citizens and prevent the birth of many more future citizens….
    Posted by: toostunnedtolaugh at February 3, 2009 3:04 PM
    Garrr! We pirates prefer to think of it as more money going toward more sex! c):) (Bethany, that’s my attempt at ascii art…. a pirate with hat)

  18. These are high volume hardened criminals.
    I could picture them putting a couple hundred dead rats in the peanut butter. That way the evidence would be disappeared.
    Why can’t the peanut butter plant hide under privacy?

  19. If PP isn’t doing that it’s their NEGLIGENCE, not the fault of an ambiguous law.
    Posted by: Kristen at February 3, 2009 3:10 PM
    Oh, so it IS an ambiguous law Kristen?
    So, the teachers are made aware in your case, but do they always follow through? Or are sometimes they conflicted? You probably won’t know the answer to that for sure. Just something to think about.
    It seems to me Planned Parenthood has more of a problem with conflicting responsibilities in this regard than school teachers.

  20. These are high volume hardened criminals.
    Posted by: xppc at February 3, 2009 3:20 PM
    With all due respect, I think the crimes you are refrring to them committing in high volumes are not crimes according to the law.

  21. Speaking as a former teacher of course I was conflicted. I wanted what was best for the students that were entrusted to me.I was put in a position to protect them. So I picked up the phone.
    PP doesn’t seem conflicted at all. Don’t report suspected rape.

  22. Oh, so it IS an ambiguous law Kristen?
    No. Maybe I should have put “ambiguous” in quotes. I only referred to it that way b/c you stated it.
    It seems to me Planned Parenthood has more of a problem with conflicting responsibilities in this regard than school teachers.
    Posted by: asitis at February 3, 2009 3:22 PM
    Why is that? Why would PP be more or less conflicted about a 15 yr. old getting raped by a 27 yr. old? School counselors have girls telling them they are pregnant and if it’s like the case above the counselor reports it. How would that be any different than what this 15 yr. old told PP? Oh wait, PP would get $425 (or more) for the abortion. Silly me.

  23. Speaking as a former teacher of course I was conflicted. I wanted what was best for the students that were entrusted to me.I was put in a position to protect them. So I picked up the phone.
    Posted by: Carla at February 3, 2009 3:25 PM
    Really carla? How many times did you have to do this ? What grades? Was this for statutory rape? Or non-consensual? Did you call the parents first in either case?

  24. Kristen @3:39
    Planned Parenthood has addtional conflict because these girls are coming to them for protection and reproductive health care. If they fear that they cannot go in confidence, they may not go. That would be a concern. Though maybe not for you.

  25. Another point about these older “boyfriends”. They don’t just prey on one girl. Likely there were many before and will be many after her.
    They have to be stopped. Only reporting will stop them
    These girls are easy marks for these guys getting their sick thrills.
    One case I remember working the phone for a CPC. A 15 y/o girl was aborted. No one at the clinic thought to question her “attentive” stepfather, who had impregnanted her, or ask any questions.
    Returning from the clinic the slime couldn’t even wait to get her home. He began molesting her again in the car.

  26. What protection does PP offer young girls?
    Reproductive health care meaning abortion. Across state lines to protect the rapist, right?
    Could you please be more specific, Virginia? Exactly what is the conflict here? The law says to report statutory rape. PP doesn’t.

  27. I reported abuse and neglect of special ed students grades 2-9. Had to report around 7-8 times.
    Posted by: Carla at February 3, 2009 4:02 PM
    That would not have the same conflicts as reporting of statutory rape Carla.

  28. What protection does PP offer young girls?
    Posted by: Carla at February 3, 2009 4:14 PM
    The biggie is birth control and condoms carla. But you knew that.

  29. Could you please be more specific, Virginia? Exactly what is the conflict here? The law says to report statutory rape. PP doesn’t.
    Posted by: Carla at February 3, 2009 4:14 PM
    And I would suggest that others who might have to report it don’t as well.
    Here’s something to consider. maybe Kristen and michael might want to as well:
    Imagine you are a high school teacher. And you are a die-hard fan of abstinence until marriage (not so hard to imagine!). And you know that most of your students are having sex. And you really wish you could get your message across to them. You believe this will really help and protect them. And let’s say you are a well-liked teacher and students feel they can come to you for all kinds of help. So one or two of the girls confide in you that they are having sex. There are under the age of consent. Maybe their boyfriends are too. Or maybe they are seniors. Or maybe they are in college. In any case, you talk to them about your experience and tell tham to stop and wait. You really think you’ve got through to them. You feel that you have protected them. Maybe you hope you can do the same for others if they come to you as well. Now….. do you call the cops?

  30. And also take into consideration the weight assigned to the crime: According to Michael’s lnk, failure to report child abuse is a misdemeaor punishable by a fine. I suspect failure to be report statutory rape would be even a lesser misdemeanor.
    Weigh that against the good you believe you are doing.

  31. But we just don’t have the undercover video of teachers and students do we? We just have undercover video of PP NOT reporting suspected rape of young pregnant girls. What’s the video count up to? 3??!!
    You seem to be the one in conflict, Virginia. Trying to defend the actions of Planned Parenthood when they have violated the law. But you knew that.
    Any and all suspected abuse, including sexual is to be reported by teachers. Why is this so hard to understand?? If I had suspected one of my students had been raped your d**n right I would have reported it. No question.

  32. You simply cannot weigh any supposed good or bad you are doing WHEN IT’S THE LAW!!! I could have lost my job had I NOT reported.

  33. If I had suspected one of my students had been raped your d**n right I would have reported it. No question.
    Posted by: Carla at February 3, 2009 4:54 PM
    I would too Carla, without question… except the case of statutory rape Carla.
    So in my scenario above you would have called the cops. No question. Is that what you are saying?

  34. “Breaking news: AZ Planned Parenthood covers up statutory rape”
    How about: Breaking news: Frat rats get drunk, pass out
    or: Breaking news: Farts smell bad
    or Breaking news: Star Trek convention features geeks, white boys

  35. Pretty sure I would report to CPS, my dear. In the long run it is to PROTECT young girls from sexual predators.
    Why wouldn’t you report statutory rape??

  36. But we just don’t have the undercover video of teachers and students do we?
    Posted by: Carla at February 3, 2009 4:54 PM
    Maybe someone should. Go undercover in high school across America and do secret videotaping a la Lila Rose! Or wait….like Drew Barrymore in … what was that movie?… Never Been Kissed! I’m sure they could come up with a few cases where teacher either councilled them to abstain or go to PP for birth control, and then didn’t call the cops. Then splice it all up into a gripping video of teachers covering up sexual abuse in the heartland!

  37. Carla: Pretty sure I would report to CPS, my dear. In the long run it is to PROTECT young girls from sexual predators.
    Carla, we are talking about high school students, not “young girls”. And while granted there are a lot of underage teenagers having sex and there boyfriends are not “sexual predators”. And I don’t believe Child Protection Services handle statutory rape. Or do they?
    Carla: Why wouldn’t you report statutory rape??
    If an underage teenage confided in me, looking for help or advice about having sex with their boyfriend (be he 15, 18, 20,25….) I would offer them advice or help as I could. Turning them into the police is not going to help them. And it isn’t going to help others who might also come to me for same thinking they can confide in me.

  38. Sorry, that should read
    Carla: Pretty sure I would report to CPS, my dear. In the long run it is to PROTECT young girls from sexual predators.
    Carla, we are talking about high school students, not “young girls”. And while granted THERE ARE SEXUAL PREDATORS OUT THERE, there are a lot of underage teenagers having sex and their boyfriends are not “sexual predators”. And I don’t believe Child Protection Services handle statutory rape. Or do they?

  39. Why are we arguing about protecting young girls or high school girls from those that would take advantage of them?
    Gotta go, V. Nice talking to you.

  40. Liberal democrats have no shame, but they can still be embarrassed. It takes a while, but it finally dawns on them there is a line, gray and and indistinct as it may be for Joe Sixpack and soccer mom, that when crossed will burn through the self induced mental haze and register with the focus groups as ‘bad’.
    Then the spokesweasles and spinmeisters trot out and begin their dog and pony show and the perpetrator becomes the victim and his/accusers become really mean and insensitive people for piling on the public servant who has devoted her/ life for the benefit of the children and mother earth and apple pie.
    Then the ‘victims’ childhood will come into play and the MSM will begin playing not just a violin but a string quartet and the fat lady, if she shows at all, will say how she was delighted to service the president.
    It is all I can do not to launch into an uncontrolled tirade of mono syllabic expletives. You cannot have a reasonable conversation with people who have no objective standard. Their words are meaningless, because the definitions fluctuate with the next wind and wave of emotion.
    It is like talking to Dr. Jim when his mind had been addled by a stroke. They have lost their mind, a term which in itself is unfathonable to them. Liberal humanists are brain damaged. They have lost the ability to think in concrete terms. They are guided by their desires and their feelings. They are predictably unpredicatable because for them there are absloutely no absolutes.
    Do not ask these people for directions. They do not know where they came from, where they are, or where they are going. Do not follow them. Do not attempt to lead them. Just give them a wide berth and keep an eye on them or they will come back around and run you down in their blind stumbings.
    If and when they sober up and regain their right mind, which they voluntarily surrendered somewhere along the way, then offer them a helping hand, taking care to yourself that what ever hijacked them does not infect you.
    yor bro ken
    yor bro ken

  41. Why are we arguing about protecting young girls or high school girls from those that would take advantage of them?
    Gotta go, V. Nice talking to you.
    Posted by: Carla at February 3, 2009 5:51 PM
    Funny… I thought we were talking about protecting them from the risks associated with sex they have consented to having.
    PS In my scenario for 4:46pm you actually would call the cops Carla?

  42. And I don’t believe Child Protection Services handle statutory rape. Or do they?
    Asitis, in my state they do. I am not mandated to determine that abuse or statutory rape has occurred prior to making a referral. I am mandated to report the suspicion of it having occurred. Then the investigators take over.
    Turning them into the police is not going to help them.
    You make it sound like an underage girl having sex is turned over to the cops. That’s not how it works.

  43. I reported abuse and neglect of special ed students grades 2-9. Had to report around 7-8 times.
    Posted by: Carla at February 3, 2009 4:02 PM
    This must have been very stressful for you Carla. Stressful to learn of the abuse and know the children were suffering and stressful to have to deal with it on many levels. God bless you!

  44. Really Fed Up? In your state if say a 15 year old girl is having consensual sex with her 18 year old boyfriend it would be handled by CPS?

  45. In your state if say a 15 year old girl is having consensual sex with her 18 year old boyfriend it would be handled by CPS?
    Depends on what you mean by “handled,” Asitis. CPS would ask me questions and then determine whether an investigation is warranted. They have certain criteria for determining if a referral is actionable.
    I know from experience that “consensual” isn’t always easy to define. For example, if she’s having sex after they use drugs or alcohol, how consensual is that? If she has cognitive, psychological or physical impairments that may affect her ability to decline, how consensual is it?
    Then there’s the issue of just what she is consenting to. Sex? Or sex and drugs? Or sex, drugs and perhaps porn (he’s taking pics or making vids)
    Sometimes it’s a lot more complicated than a 15 year old girl simply having “consensual” sex with her 18 year old boyfriend. Sometimes it’s not. CPS decides based on the law and the potential risks to the girl.

  46. V,
    First of all you seem to make the assumption that I would be “friends” with these imaginary students and I would be somehow jeopardizing my standing as “cool teacher” by stepping in and contacting authorities when I could lose my job if I suspected and didn’t do anything. You want to know if I would call the cops on 2 15 year olds having sex?? Probably not. It depends on what my state laws are on age of consent.
    What are you trying so hard to get me to say, V??
    I first commented about the statutory rape of young girls…..the video. Remember? :)
    Thank you too stunned. It was extremely difficult to face those situations when all I wanted to do was the right thing for young people in agonizing situations. If I could have taken them all home with me I would have.

  47. If an underage teenage confided in me, looking for help or advice about having sex with their boyfriend (be he 15, 18, 20,25….) I would offer them advice or help as I could. Turning them into the police is not going to help them. And it isn’t going to help others who might also come to me for same thinking they can confide in me.
    Posted by: asitis at February 3, 2009 5:16 PM
    If the girl is 17, and the guy is 18 fine. I’d offer my advice and move on. If she is 16 and he’s 20, I”m calling the cops. Simple as that.

  48. I could lose my job if I suspected and didn’t do anything
    Too bad judges aren’t in the same boat. I got as irritated about the judicial bypass as I did with PP when I watched that video.

  49. Carla, we are talking about high school students, not “young girls”.
    Posted by: asitis at February 3, 2009 5:18 PM
    Note to self…None of my high school aged kids are allowed to attend parties at Virginia’s house.

  50. TS,
    High School students are “young girls” to me. :)
    Posted by: Carla at February 4, 2009 7:05 AM
    Who do you call “girls” then?
    Sorry, but when I hear young girls, I think of elementary school age, certainly not ones that have hit puberty.
    And truthseeker, while I certainly wouldn’t encourage 15 year old girls to go and have sex, I don’t think I’d turn them over to the authorities for doing so. Quite honestly if I was in the situation I asked carla about I would advise them that they are way too young and they should wait. I’d tell them they had their whole lives ahead of them and they should enjoy being a kid still. I’d tell them that if their boyfriend is pressuring them than he doesn’t respect thjem and he’s not worthy of them. That it’s their body and their decision what to do with it… not his. I would advise them to talk to their parents about this if they could.
    PS I don’t think my boys would necessarily want to hang out with your girls anyway. ;)

  51. Carla, I’m not “trying to get you to say” anything. I’m just trying to get you to think why it is that people may not turn in people having underage sex.
    The cases you mentioned – abuse, neglect – that you saw as a teacher are pretty straightforward for most people. Yes, I wouldn’t hesitate to turn those parenst and guardians in. But statutory rape is different. Especially in the case of when their isn’t a big age discrepancy. I thnk Hal spoke to this. Lila Rose did go in with a huge (12 year) age discrepancy. It could have been much smaller and the crime would have been no less, but viewers would not react the same.
    And as I said before, counsellors, teachers and do an even creater extent health and reproductive care providers have even more conflicts with this than we do. On top of that, I did some searching and the laws are complex and vary from sate to state and the crime of failing to report is minor. While I do not condone breaking the law in general, these are all things to consider.
    That’s all I am saying. Does it make any sense to you?

  52. You honestly sound so argumentative at times and I have to wonder why?
    Of course what you are saying makes sense. So does what I am saying. ALL young people under the age of 18 deserve to be safe and if they should be in my family, classroom, youth group or neighborhood I feel a duty to do all I can to protect them. I will step in. I will call the cops or CPS.

  53. PS I don’t think my boys would necessarily want to hang out with your girls anyway. ;)
    Posted by: asitis at February 4, 2009 7:39 AM
    The biggest reason I wouldn’t let them over is that I couldn’t trust you to respect my right as a parent to know if my high-scholl aged girl was engaging in sex. You would likely think of it as protecting your 18 year old boy(or their friends) from the authorities (me). I like to keep my children away from environments where dishonesty and deception are practiced.

  54. Hell, I would’t let my kids around any adult that hide from me the fact that my one of minor kids was having sex period. I don’t care the age of the partner.

  55. truthseeker do you have older children? Do we as parents have a right to know if they are having sex? Or drinking? Or doing drugs? Do other parents HAVE to inform us if they know? Or maybe they as parents recognize that while they don’t have to tell the ither parents, they would because they themselves would want to be told. But maybe they don’t tell because they have good reason not to……………

  56. I am not allowed to post on various prochoice sites. :)
    Posted by: Carla at February 4, 2009 9:46 AM
    Well there! I am LESS argumentative than you carla. So far I have never been booted off a pro-life site (this is my only one). Almost…. but not quite! Pirate wink to Bethany c);)

  57. Hell, I would’t let my kids around any adult that hide from me the fact that my one of minor kids was having sex period. I don’t care the age of the partner.
    Posted by: truthseeker at February 4, 2009 9:45 AM
    Oh, I’m not so sure I wouldn’t tell another parent that truthseeker. But as someone working at Planned Parenthood I wouldn’t tell.
    And here’s another case where I wouldn’t: When I was in my late 20’s and newly married a good friend who is older and a mother came to me and told me that she had told her then teenage dauhter that if she needed an adult to talk to about anything she didn’t want to dicuss with her parents, could she come to me. And I was to respect the daughter confidentiality. She asked if that was okay with me. I said yes and I was honored. This is a wonderful mother by the way. And she also worked with teen mothers, pre and post-birth so she had a good sense of reality. In the end the daughter never came to me, but I thought it was a great thing for her mother to do.

  58. I mean that I have tried posting on several and my comments do not get posted. I haven’t been banned….yet. :)
    So you completely agree with PP and how they handled themselves in these videos, V? Honestly?

  59. As a pediatric emergency room RN I will tell you, yes, it is cut and dried. Girl is pregnant and we suspect any type of rape, statutory or otherwise, we must notify. End of discussion. I don’t get to have moral or ethical debates about the subject. Just as if I see an injury that doesn’t match up with the parent’s description of how it occurred… I must report. Even if I think that there isn’t a snowball’s chance in Hades that this parent abused this child… I don’t have either the luxury or, thank heavens, the responsibility, to make those decisions. That is up to the social workers.
    I see even a suspicion… I report. End of discussion. I don’t, I lose my license.
    – Elisabeth
    blessed mom of 7

  60. Oh, I’m not so sure I wouldn’t tell another parent that truthseeker.
    Posted by: asitis at February 4, 2009 9:59 AM
    That is my point exactly asitis. You are not too sure. I wouldn’t knowingly place my children under the supervision of an adult who would hide it from me if they found out my minor child was engaging in activity as potentially life changing as having sex. You just don’t get it. You would probably be more likely to refer them to Planned Parenthood and your willingness to engage in deception would make untrustworthy if not dangerous. Are there other activities too that you think you might keep from a minor’s parent, or is it just sex that makes you behave this way?

  61. truthseeker do you have older children? Do we as parents have a right to know if they are having sex? Or drinking? Or doing drugs? Do other parents HAVE to inform us if they know? Or maybe they as parents recognize that while they don’t have to tell the ither parents, they would because they themselves would want to be told. But maybe they don’t tell because they have good reason not to……………
    Posted by: asitis at February 4, 2009 9:48 AM
    Tell me asistis, what are some of these good reasons for not telling a parent that their child is engaging in risky behaviour? Is this something you have a rule or even most of the time or is practicing deception the exception? How can you expect to be a mutually respectful relationships with adults or children if you do not base those relationships on honesty?

  62. well the threat of losing your license plus the nature of your work makes it cut and dry for you which makes it easier elisabeth. You are fortnate to not have the conflict.
    Carls, do I agree with what I saw in the video? Well I assume she stressed that she wanted an abortion. But we don’t see any of the initial discussion so we don’t know what happened there. I would hope that they advised her about the fact that she was underage and he is 12 years older. Maybe they did and that has been left out. Or maybe they didn’t because that could implicate them.
    What I do see is why they might not report her underage sex to the authorities. But I can see this because I am not anti abortion and anti birth control.

  63. =====What does reporting statutory rape have to do with being anti-birth control or anti-abortion?
    Posted by: truthseeker at February 4, 2009 10:58 AM======
    TS, reporting statutory rape might result in PP selling fewer abortions and birth control pills, for one. There’s money to be made by breaking “minor laws” like mandated reporting.

  64. truthseeker if this were a year or two ago I would be telling you I would always tell the other parents. But now I am conflicted: I know that by doing so I will have a chld that no longer confides in me.is no longer honest with me. Their peers are very important to them. I may not be able to help and protect him. And that is most important to me… And them.
    Can you understand that? How old are your children?

  65. In lila had gone to a pro life center would they have called the authorities? Would you be all outraged about that?

  66. well the threat of losing your license plus the nature of your work makes it cut and dry for you which makes it easier elisabeth. You are fortnate to not have the conflict.
    Carls, do I agree with what I saw in the video? Well I assume she stressed that she wanted an abortion. But we don’t see any of the initial discussion so we don’t know what happened there. I would hope that they advised her about the fact that she was underage and he is 12 years older. Maybe they did and that has been left out. Or maybe they didn’t because that could implicate them.
    What I do see is why they might not report her underage sex to the authorities. But I can see this because I am not anti abortion and anti birth control.
    Posted by: asitis at February 4, 2009 10:44 AM

    Asitis… these are NURSES. They have the SAME license I have. They have the SAME legal requirements I have. They have the same duty to report… they are MANDATORY REPORTERS.
    You may personally deal with conflict, but these nurses have no right to do so… they HAVE NO CHOICES and if they are exercising choice about whether to perform their LEGAL DUTY they deserve to be stripped of their licenses. (And I’m in AZ too, so it’s the exact same law!)

  67. Asitis,
    I mentioned in earlier posts of a 15y/o client impregnated by her stepfather. The director told me as soon as I knew her name I was to report this. Sadly the girl never gave me her name, we maintained only phone contact. However I was told any such cases were to be reported. We were REQUIRED to report. This was not an option.

  68. Mary you’re right. I believe the law is very clear cut when the person involved in the sex is a caregiver. And the crime/ punishment more severe.
    Sickos

  69. Elisabeth, 11:50am
    You’re right. We have to remember these are predators who will continue to prey on these young girls until they are stopped. They will not be stopped until they are reported.

  70. We have to remember these are predators who will continue to prey on these young girls until they are stopped.
    Posted by: Mary at February 4, 2009 11:58 AM
    Are you refer statutory rape in general Mary? Because that “predator” and “young girl” could be an 18 year old having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend in some states

  71. And in Arizona, that would be the law, although the punishment varies… but believe me, in Arizona, 18 year old boys are fully aware that their 17 year old girlfriends are that loving term used so freely here: jailbait.
    Arizona statutory rape laws define a minor as anyone who is under the age of 18. Sexual conduct with anyone under the age of 18 in Arizona is punishable by felony charges that can lead to time in jail.
    The severity of punishments for this charge varies. If you are found guilty of having sexual intercourse or oral sexual contact with a minor under the age of 15, the charges will be more severe than if you are found guilty of the same conduct with a person who is between 15 and 18 years old.
    Arizona statutory rape laws spell out a harsh punishment for anyone who engages in sexual conduct with a minor under the age of 12. This offense can result in a life sentence, with only a slight chance of parole. Also, charges and punishment are more severe if the sexual conduct took place with the minor’s parent, legal guardian, stepparent or foster-parent.
    If the victim is under 15 and the perpetrator is in a position of authority over the minor, such as I’ve listed here, my research also revealed that the convicted person’s prison term wouldn’t be shortened in any way. This means there will be no parole, probation, pardon, or suspension of sentence, according to Arizona statutory rape laws.
    Regardless… the situation faced by the PP workers was a 15 year old with a 27 year old boyfriend. They were not “caught” talking about a 17 year old and an 18 year old. They were engaged in a coverup of what they believed to be a 15 year old and a 27 year old. There is no justification for their actions…. or inaction, as the case may be.

  72. Oh, and just to add, being under 18 doesn’t prevent someone from being charged with statutory rape in AZ. The laws are quite severe here… you can even be arrested for statutory rape if you are also a minor! So that 17 year old boy isn’t getting off the hook either… usually this is only enforced in the case of age differences (such as a 17 year old with a 12 year old) but being a minor is not a defense.

  73. Asitis,
    There was a time when the statutory rape laws were more strictly enforced and kids 18y/o and under could and would be prosecuted. All a guy had to hear was a girl was under 18 or 16 or whatever and he ran like a scared rabbit. I’ve heard some situations now where that has been the case.
    Perhaps that would make a dent in teen pregnancy!
    Age of consent is also variable. We know in some states girls could marry as young as 13 y/o. If you recall that’s what destroyed the career of Jerry Lee Lewis. I’m not familiar with the age of consent in all states, but I believe its 14y/o in some. Correct me if I’m wrong.
    As of now if its “consensual” between a couple of underage teens there likely won’t be prosecution though technically, depending on the age of consent, there could be.
    I think the biggest concern is sexual predators, “men” and I use that term loosely, who prey on these young girls.
    Besides the law requires reporting. Whether this slime is a caretaker or the next door neighbor, he should be stopped.

  74. Oh, and just to add, being under 18 doesn’t prevent someone from being charged with statutory rape in AZ. The laws are quite severe here… you can even be arrested for statutory rape if you are also a minor!
    Posted by: Elisabeth at February 4, 2009 12:22 PM
    And yet Arizona has the second highest teen pregnancy rate in the country.
    Perhaps the late age of consent and severe laws contribute to this?

  75. No, it has to do with a culture that is 1)accepting of teenage sex 2)relatively anti-abortion 3)lax enforcement of the laws…
    Just went through this with my 16 year old daughter who came home feeling like a freak because in one of her classes they were discussing how *all* teens want to have sex and that *most* will have sex and she truly isn’t interested… she was really upset. I pointed out that everyone is different and people develop desire at different rates… also that because she is focused on her goals (to be a veterinarian) and she is familiar with the end-result of sexual activity (the oldest of seven), she is less likely to focus on those sexual urges she *does* have… minimizing them, rather than causing them to take over ones’ life, as they do if they (or romance or some guy) is the major focus of some girl’s life.

  76. No, it has to do with a culture that is 1)accepting of teenage sex 2)relatively anti-abortion 3)lax enforcement of the laws…
    Posted by: Elisabeth at February 4, 2009 12:58 PM
    Hmmm… well, they have the oldest age of consent (18) and you just told me the laws are quite severe. So that hardly seems like a culture accepting of teen sex
    They have a lower rate of teen sex than the US average.
    But they do have a lower rate of sexually active teens using birth control. And there is no state law mandating the teaching of sex-ed, but there is one that says if they do teach sex-ed the focus has to be on abstinence. And in order to participate in sex ed classes a parent’s not is required.
    Hmmm…

  77. 1) You’re confusing correlation with causation…
    2) Not a state… a culture, most specifically a culture that is heavily Hispanic and which values pregnancy and motherhood and does not have significant social stigma for teen mothers but does have a culture very much against abortion…
    Nationwide, the rate for pregnancies among Hispanic teens dwarfs the rates for all other ethnic groups and has done so consistently… http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_07.pdf
    Therefore it makes sense that those states with the highest percentage of Hispanic teens would also be the states ranking in the top pregnancy rates, such as Nevada, Arizona, Florida, New Mexico and Texas.
    Hence, the causative issue, which is one of culture, also causes a correlation with a heavily predominant pro-life viewpoint which is common within that same culture.

  78. I’m back ( briefly…. Hockey mom). Elisabeth I was careful NOT to confuse correlation and cause actually! I merely pointed out the corelations and drew no conclusions. N’est ce pas?
    So….. The Hispanic poputation (30% of teens?) contributes to the high pregnancy rate. I wonder if the other issues do as well?when I’m back home I’ll see what I can find. But in any case, the fact remains that Arizona teens on whole are having a higher rate of unprotected sex (among sexually active teens ) which is resulting in the second highest rate of teen pregnancy in the country.
    And hey carla, that’s what I’m here for!

  79. Hey, Carla, good to see you. It’s nice to be back. I cut back on all the overtime so I’ll have a little more time to be around and chit chat.

  80. Carla,
    Why do you and Michael insist on referring to asitis by her old moniker (Virginia), but referring to toostunnedtolaugh by her’s (Patricia) is forbidden?

  81. I think it’s allowed to call her Patricia Bri. I don’t think she likes it though.
    I’ve kind of got used to calling her toostunned anyway now………….

  82. “Well there! I am LESS argumentative than you carla. So far I have never been booted off a pro-life site (this is my only one). ”
    Astsis, merely saying the word ‘pro-life’ will get one banned from a pro-abortion site…

  83. Can you understand that? How old are your children?
    Posted by: asitis at February 4, 2009 11:10 AM
    The parent deserves to know and you could tell them discretely without losing the child’s confidence IF the parents thought that were best for their child. We are talking about life changing events like being sexually active as a minor and it is the parents that will have to deal with the consequences.
    My kids are 17,15,13,10,3, and 1. And one that miscarried at twenty four weeks between the 10 year old and the 3 year old.

  84. Well you, and I might assume, many of the people you associate, are against sex before marriage. If your child told you one of their friends was doing that, would you tell the parents? What if they told you their friend was doin drugs? Underage drinking? Would you tell the parents?
    Have you even been put in this position? It could be (I’m not saying it is) that your children know that you would, without question tell, and as such do not confide in you what is going on.

  85. My children know that my husband and I are here to protect them, instruct them and be a safe harbor for their hearts. We are not our childrens “friends” or “pals” and do not seek to “ruin their fun.”
    You are speaking of behaviors V that are potentially life threatening. Herpes is forever. AIDS can kill you. I would want to know from my adult friends if my child is engaging in risky behavior and my friends would want to know that from me.
    My four cents.

  86. I’m going to rewrite that because I see if someone wasn’t following closely they may misread what I wrote, thinking I now might not want to know what MY child was doing:
    I would also want other parents to tell me if my children were engaging in what I consider to be risk behaviours Carla. And as I said yesterday, if you asked me a year or so ago I would have insisted it would cut and dry: I would tell the other parents. Now I can see reasons to not. It is a difficult decision to make but there can be very good reason for it.
    And it has nothing to do with being your kids pal, friend, ruining their fun, or even being seen as “the cool mom”. It seems that is what you are thinking and it’s not the case at all.

  87. I base my relationship with my kids upon honesty as a foundation. It is usually MY kids that tell me if the other kids are engaging in risky behaviour. Most times these friends have parents who have “different” standards. They are open in drunkeness around their children and/or allow their children to have opposite sex partners in their house unsupervised. In the cases where I don;t tell them it is cause there is just disagreement in proper parenting and I know that these other parents know already that their child engages in the risky behaviour so there is really nothing to tell.

  88. So what you are saying then is you haven’t actually encountered this then. They tell you things because they know you won’t tell the parents because the parents won’t care. And you’re not telling the parents because you think/know they won’t care. You have no conflicting issues here.
    What I am talking about is when your child confides in you something their friends have done or something they have also done with them and you know the other parents would care.

  89. My kids are 17,15,13,10,3, and 1. And one that miscarried at twenty four weeks between the 10 year old and the 3 year old.
    Posted by: truthseeker at February 4, 2009 11:08 PM
    awesome! Three teenagers and you are still alive to talk and write about it! AMAZING!! :-D

  90. Bri,
    I didn’t know that asitis and Virginia were the same people until I head Carla refer to her as such. I find a name, like Virginia, is much easier to type than run on words like asitis. I either keep putting in spaces or mistyping, and I also like humanizing the person I am speaking with. Similarly, I did not know until your post that toostunned is Patricia, though I would prefer to call her that.
    I didn’t get the memo that discussed people’s old and new nicknames, sorry! And asitis/Virginia, if you would prefer me to use one or the other, I will.

  91. I don’t really care Michael, though you might want to stick to Asitis to avoid others being confused.
    Toostunned might not feel the same, as she was trying to hide that identity for awhile. But others have been using it again. She’ll have to let you know for sure though.

  92. Sorry, that was me.
    PS Michael, it might help to note my moniker is three works pushed together … as it is

  93. Coming into the conversation a bit late…So it looks as if it’s turning out that these aren’t “a few isolated incidents” as abortion rights activists were saying in their defense of Planned Parenthood.

  94. God, can we please just let the whole names and nicknames thing go and just let the past stay in the past? And I’ve been following along, but what’s up with this whole, “what would pro-lifers do in hypothetical situations” discussion. I thought we were discussing an medical provider and their medical staff as well as the laws which govern them.

  95. Rachael C: it would also be nice if people would not presume to speak for others on the board or divulge what they think might be real names or situations/circumstances but actually aren’t.
    BTW, your blog looks rather interesting!

  96. So it looks as if it’s turning out that these aren’t “a few isolated incidents” as abortion rights activists were saying in their defense of Planned Parenthood.
    Posted by: Rachael C. at February 5, 2009 1:44 PM
    it does seem to appear that this is the current state of affairs
    Whether anything will be done is another thing.

  97. oh patricia m. It was already divulged by a mid why you changed your moniker. Let’s not get into that again!

  98. My kids are 17,15,13,10,3, and 1. And one that miscarried at twenty four weeks between the 10 year old and the 3 year old.
    Posted by: truthseeker at February 4, 2009 11:08 PM
    awesome! Three teenagers and you are still alive to talk and write about it! AMAZING!! :-D
    Posted by: toostunnedtolaugh at February 5, 2009 10:07 AM

    Yup, gives me hope as my second teenager emerges… Joey turns 13 in May! (Although Alison has made it really easy on me… I’m very lucky and she’s very open with me.)

  99. Seems like an attempt to de-rail the conversation. Last time I checked, the laws weren’t based off of hypothetical situations.
    Posted by: Rachael C. at February 5, 2009 2:03 PM

    Precisely. The law in Arizona would require that if a healthcare provider or other mandatory reporter is aware of a sexual relationship between a 15 year old and a 27 year old that they report it to the proper authorities as it is a FELONY (not a misdemeanor as it is in some other states).
    They MUST report.
    No choice.
    No thinking about it.
    No weighing the options.
    No moral or ethical quagmires to mull over.
    They MUST report.
    Hence the name “mandatory reporter”.

  100. Elisabeth: yes I think most jurisdictions require this sort of thing.
    In fact, any time a minor is in some sort of danger, I would think there would the onus on an adult to report the situation.

  101. TSTL, I know there was some animosity and hurt feelings, but please just let it go, we’re not going to be able to move on if we stay in the past.

    Thank you for your comment about my blog, though. Do feel free to look around and browse the archives :-)

  102. TSTL, I know there was some animosity and hurt feelings, but please just let it go, we’re not going to be able to move on if we stay in the past.
    Thank you for your concern Rachel C.
    I apparently AM the one who is letting it go, the other person is not and has in fact threatened me. I’ve taken some action about this but am not willing to reveal just what it is. It does not involve anyone associated with this blog, but I’ve had some help from a friend re; this situation.

  103. I am curious about something I read regarding Lila’s previous stings–that a PP worker was suspended but no legal action was taken because there was no real crime (of statutory rape) to report. I’ve watched COPS (I’ll admit it) and when the undercover officers solicit sex from the prostitutes, they don’t actually have to go through with the act for the charges to stick, right? IT’S THE INTENT; that’s the whole purpose of a sting operation. It’s very clear from all 3 videos that the workers’ INTENT is to ignore their obligations to report the crimes they have no reason to believe are anything but real at the time.
    Does everyone else notice in the video that when asked if she wants to have the abortion, “Lizzie” asks what other options she has and the worker ignores the question (or maybe doesn’t hear it, that’s possible, though not probable) and continues on? Make no mistake, asitis, this is not a compassionate health care worker (abortion is not health care, let’s be very clear about that) with the protection of the minor in mind, this is a person with an agenda: $$$

  104. I apparently AM the one who is letting it go, the other person is not and has in fact threatened me. I’ve taken some action about this but am not willing to reveal just what it is. It does not involve anyone associated with this blog, but I’ve had some help from a friend re; this situation.
    Posted by: toostunnedtolaugh at February 5, 2009 5:20 PM
    Ooooh, sounds ominous. Glad it’s not me you are referring to, because I never threatened. Who did? That’s not right. Good luck with that toostunned!

  105. So what you are saying then is you haven’t actually encountered this then. They tell you things because they know you won’t tell the parents because the parents won’t care. And you’re not telling the parents because you think/know they won’t care. You have no conflicting issues here.
    What I am talking about is when your child confides in you something their friends have done or something they have also done with them and you know the other parents would care.
    Posted by: asitis at February 5, 2009 9:57 AM
    Sure I have, never about sex or drugs though but I would in a heartbeat if I knew. For instance, I knew a kid who was breaking into houses and I told his parents and the kid made it right without getting the police involved. I guess I just don’t get conflicted as easily.

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