Weekend question
On April 16 the Thomas More Law Center filed a lawsuit against Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano for violating the civil liberties of pro-lifers among others by targeting them as potential domestic terrorists simply for their beliefs in an April 7 a report.
One of the 3 plaintiffs is Gregg Cunningham of the pro-life activist group Center for Bioethical Reform.
Another plaintiff, radio talk show host Michael Savage, announced on his April 16 show the lawsuit also demands the classified list of names on the watch list.
Will it be good or bad if the Department of Homeland Security has not identified you as a pro-life activist?
Apr.18, 2009 12:20 pm |
Weekend question |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
More frivolous suits for the wingnuts to lose…
maybe, Bystander
But the fact is, that the left is targeting people who are for the most part, law abiding citizens and people are holding this country together with their stable families and their productive lifestyles.
They are the ones who are having the children, who aren’t taxing the health and social services resources with mulitiple STI’s, excessive contraceptive use, out-of-wedlock children, high divorce rates, aberrant anti-social behaviors etc.
It simply demonstrates how much the left fears prolifers and the irrational lengths they allow their fears to drive them.
Yes, we prolifers are all uni-bombers in disguise. :P
Whoa, angel what a combination of narcissism and paranoia. You have a future on Faux Noise.
The thing is, pro-lifers do get blamed for an awful lot of things that aren’t our fault, get treated differently by just about every news outlet, feature film, etc., and we are culturally treated as women-haters (my own mother the other day said that I must clearly believe that women belong in the kitchen since I’m pro-life)…but, I couldn’t say that we are the victims of persecution. I couldn’t say that we’re being killed or tortured.
We get treated differently, worse, yes- but things don’t get worse in America to the point of tyranny. Terrible things happen, but, perhaps I’m naive, I don’t believe that we shall suffer like persecuted persons (such as the Jews or the Christians in parts of India) suffer or did suffer. I just don’t find that to be America. And if something spontaneous happens, then you have my permission to say, “I told you so.”
After successive 8-1 and 8-0 Supreme Court rulings overturning lower court rulings against Joe Scheidler in a case brought against him by N.O.W., those voices that said Scheidler had no case were finally silenced.
There is a good chance that the pro-lifers will prevail here as well. Those who want to dismiss the pro-lifers’ suit against Napolitano are either unaware of the seriousness of the government’s over-reaching, or do not give a damn. A third option is that they are pleased that the government is cracking down on pro-lifers, and they do not care if there is a legal basis for the actions.
Under Bush, the drumbeat was the supposed illegal wiretapping of domestic phone calls. Though there was never any evidence offered that gave credence to the charge, there was a great amount of rancor and protest. Where are they now, the ACLU’s and like minded activists when in breathtaking fashion Napolitano raises suspicion of whole segments of our population?
They are silent because their real mission is not based upon principles, but rather to the furtherance of a leftist agenda.
Napolitano is a disgrace and ought to resign.
I have a confessions to make.
When I was a boy I removed the gun powder from a whole string of Black Cat firecrackers and put it all in one single ping pong ball.
Then I inserted a fuse.
I lit said fuse and said gunpowder in said ping pong ball exploded with a very loud boom.
When I was a teenager I inflated about a dozen Jack in the Box ballons with natural gas which is lighter than air.
I then tied all the balloons together and released them into the night sky with a long lit fuse.
At an undetermined altitude the burning fuse reached the balloons, and though there was no explosion, the resulting fire ball lit up the night sky.
When I was old enough to drive I would turn off the ignition key while the car was still moving and after a short interlude would return the ignition to the on position and the car would back fire with such violent force that the muffler would often rupture.
I also removed those tags from the pillows that federal law prohibits you from removing.
And contrary to the NFL’s prohibitions I have reproduced my own rendition of a Dallas Cowboy football game.
yor bro ken
Vannah – The allegations made by Janet Napolitano are far more serious than anything made by MSM or anything you can find on the Internet.
She’s in charge of Homeland Security. In case you haven’t noticed, there is a shift going on in terminology. “Terrorism” is now “man-made disasters”. That’s disingenuous, because the the Titanic sinking was a “man-made disaster”, but it hardly qualifies as terrorism. Is there any reason to redefine “terrorism”? Yes – it’s too closely linked to Islamic terrorists given the two World Trade Center bombings, and numerous acts of terror around the world.
The other reason to redefine the word is to make a reapplication of it to a new target, based on Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals.
Janet Napolitano executed #13 – “Picked the target”.
With CNN and MSNBC showing complete contempt for the American public, they are doing their best to “Freeze It”.
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm
If you’re going to play the game, you need to know the rules.
Wanna know where they are going? Read Animal Farm.
Oh yes – with Palin speaking at a pro-life banquet in Indiana, you can see how it would be politically expedient to play the extremist game.
Your lack of ability or willingness to disassociate yourselves with extremists such as Operation Rescue only feeds into the perception of the Anti-Choice movement as one that is dangerous, reckless and unpredictable.
The same memos were released about persons on the left. Where was your hew and cry over that or are you more alligned with your politics than your values in regards to free expression.
“Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment,” said that while there is no specific information that
domestic right-wing terrorists
are planning acts of violence, such acts could come from
unnamed
“rightwing extremists”
concerned about
1) illegal immigration,
2) abortion,
3) increasing federal power
4) and restrictions on firearms —
5) and singled out returning war veterans as susceptible to recruitment.”
—————————————————–
I went four for four on the issues, but I am not a ‘returning war veteran’.
I was a member of a paramilitary organization that discriminates against known male homosexuals: aka The Boy Scouts of America.
In the eyes of Janet Napolitiano, do I still qualify as a ‘right wing extremist’?
Most of America is concerned about 2 or 3 of the above mentioned issues.
When a major network network news show capitulates to the terms set by the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security to only be allowed to ask one question about said memo about ‘right wing extremist’ as a pre-condition for her consenting to an appearance on their show that is NOT ‘journalism’, that is a knowing and willing participation in government propaganda.
pbho has stated that he will talk to leaders of nations that support Jew hating and american hating terrorists without preconditions, but his own appointees will not consent to inteviews with his own lap dog media without preconditions.
Chains we can believe in and an administration as transparent as a lead wall.
pbho says he is unaware of the ‘tea parties’ that occurred on April 15th.
The first lady, when asked to comment said, Let them eat government cheesecake.
yor bro ken
“Will it be good or bad if the Department of Homeland Security has not identified you as a pro-life activist?”
—————————————————–
I guess the answer depends on who’s defintion of
‘good’
or
‘bad’
you apply to the question.
I have already been ‘identified’ by the previous democrat administration.
yor bro ken
What’s dangerous here is that YLT and others support unconstitutional actions by the government to further a leftwing political agenda. Oops? Does it make me a potential terrorist to say that the rights of ALL should be constitutionally protected? Or do we now have to lower the suspicion we cast upon ourselves and advocate only for the rights of some?
BTW, YLT, the government didn’t refer to leftwing groups as “terrorists” but preferred instead to label them “extremists.”
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 18, 2009 2:34 PM
“The same memos were released about persons on the left. Where was your hew and cry over that or are you more alligned with your politics than your values in regards to free expression.”
——————————————————–
YLT,
At least post the link to the ‘same memos released’ about the left.
Pardon us if we do not just accept your word on it.
yor bro ken
Ken, here’s the report I was referring to but I’ll let YLT speak for himself about his reference.
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Leftwing_Extremist_Threat.pdf
Whoa, angel what a combination of narcissism and paranoia. You have a future on Faux Noise.
Posted by: Bystander at April 18, 2009 12:55 PM
I”m not the one with these personality disorders. Apparently Janet Napolitano and yourself are.
Who could be paranoid about women with babies in strollers and people from all walks of life helping young women in distress?
Better watch out Mr. B, I might just pull out my rosary and start praying. :P
I also removed those tags from the pillows that federal law prohibits you from removing.
For shame Ken! I wonder what the statutory limit is on this act of pillow terrorism?
ylt and fedup
I had only read excerpts from the DHS ‘right wing’ report.
Now that I have read the entire document I have more concern, not less.
After reading the ‘left wing’ report I understand the reasons given for monitoring individuals and groups who are presently committing criminal acts in the United States.
While it appears that the ‘left wing’ extremists are focusing more on non-violent economic strategies and using cyber tactics, they are not a ‘perceived’ potential threat. They are a present reality.
The ‘left wing’ document was dated only six days after the Obama inauguration, so it is unlikely that it bears his administrations footprint.
This ‘left wing’ report was probably approved by the Bush administration.
There was no mention of:
“Federal efforts to influence domestic public opinion must beconducted in an overt and transparent manner, clearly identifying United States Government sponsorship.”
Public opinion about what?
I believe you call that kind of activity propaganda, propaganda directed against our own population.
At the same time we have individuals and nations who actively plotting to destroy us, elements in the Obama administration are focusing the attention of law enforcement and the general public on people who have a prolife bumper sticker on their car.
This sounds like something out of a ‘Mash’ script.
The Obama administration is attempting to chill and intimidate their perceived political oponents.
Here is Obama’s list of issues that will identify the ‘enemies’ of America.
People who are opposed to:
Illegal immigration
Gun control
Abortion
Same sex marriage
Thanks for providing the reading material.
yor bro ken
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 18, 2009 2:34 PM
“Your lack of ability or willingness to disassociate yourselves with extremists such as Operation Rescue only feeds into the perception of the Anti-Choice movement as one that is dangerous, reckless and unpredictable.”
——————————————————-
As a former participant and planner in non-violent direct action organized under the auspices of ‘Operation Rescue’ not only do I NOT disassociate myself from their tactics, I applaud and encourage them.
Non-violent passive resistance is the same stategy that the Reverend Martin Luther King Junior and Civil Rights movement implemented to
combat racial discrimination.
The same strategy that Ghandi implemented to free India from British rule.
The same strategy that Ghandi learned from Leo Tolstoy who derived it from his reading of the Bible.
Those meddlesome christians even infect pagan nations with their misplaced ideas of justice.
Ylt and Fedup, you may not agree with OR’s position on the issue of choicing prenatal children to death, but you cannot criticize the tactic of non-violent passive resistance to bring about social change without being hypocrits.
Find me one person who claims to be affiliated with OR that has advocated killing or harming another person or even damaging property.
Find me one person in leadership in OR who has advocated violence against those who choose to ‘choice’ children.
yor bro ken
Ylt and Fedup, …but you cannot criticize the tactic of non-violent passive resistance to bring about social change without being hypocrits.
I’m on your side, Ken. Not sure what I said to make you think I’m with YLT on this. At 2:43 I was responding to his comment about the “same memos” regarding the left by pointing out one of several dissimilarities in the reports, including the fact that “terrorist” is a designation reserved for rightwingers but not leftwingers. It’s one thing to call citizens extremist in their views and another to refer to them as potential terrorists. Perhaps I wasn’t clear what I meant. The memos are different so no wonder the reaction is different.
This ‘left wing’ report was probably approved by the Bush administration.
It came out on O’s watch. He’s done a good job of distancing himself from anything resembling Bush. He bears responsibility for it in my book.
Fed up,
My mistake. I will disassociate you from ylt.
The ‘left wing’ report did not seem unreasonable to me. The FBI used to disseminate that kind of information to state and local law enforcement, but since the creation of DHS it seems to have fallen under their perview.
My point was that people who are or have been engaged in criminal activity bear watching.
The ‘right wing’ report was about perceived potential threats. This might explain why the fellow in Oklahoma with the ‘Abort Obama, not babies’ sign was stopped by the police.
Do you think that ‘news story’ might have chilled social and political discourse just a little bit?
I was willing to give the police the benefit of the doubt in that instance, but I am not willing to afford the Obama administration that excuse.
The ‘right wing’ document demonstrates their strategy for dealing with people who publicly criticize or disagree with them.
It is a calculated shrewd manipulation.
yor bro ken
Mary got it right when she pointed out that the FBI monitored the ‘mafia leadership’ who were mostly Italian, but they did not monitor people just because they were Italian.
yor bro ken
Do you think that the abolitionists were branded lunatics? I mean, we hardly qualify as abolitionists because we are servants- and it would be best for us to remember this at all times- and we do not advocate the end of slavery, but our movements are comprised of similar characters and similar struggles. Again, I’m not saying by any means are we abolitionists…but do you think that they were treated this way? As “wingnuts?”
Non-violent passive resistance is the same stategy that the Reverend Martin Luther King Junior and Civil Rights movement implemented to
combat racial discrimination.
yes but it was “cool” to do this because it was anti-establishment.
resisting abortion is not anti-establishment and is not cool
it’s perceived as being against women
the media has been very successful in labelling prolifers as dangerous crackpots who want to enslave women as baby-makers.
and the few nutbars that have gone and killed abortionists have ended up somehow defining the movement
Posted by: Vannah at April 18, 2009 6:44 PM
Do you think that the abolitionists were branded lunatics? ….but do you think that they were treated this way? As “wingnuts?”
—————————————————–
Vannah,
Do you know what the term ‘abolitionist’ meant in the pre-civil war days?
Today we view abolitionists as any person who was opposed to slavery, but that is not what the word meant them. abolitionist were people who advocated the immediate end to slavery. Not all abolitionist saw blacks as their equal. Some abolitionist wanted to immediately return the former slaves to Africa or relocate them outside the boundaries of the United States and they had no interest in what the desires of the former slaves were.
Lloyd Garrison called the U. S. Constitution a compact with the devil and a covenant with hell because it countenanced slavery. Another abolitionist rejected Christianity because the new tesatament did not specifically reject slavery.
The pro slavery bigots used the same strategy and tactics the pro choice bigots use today. They lumped all anti-slavery people into the same camp. They called them anti-american, intolerant, religious fanatics, seditionists, and rabble rousing trouble makers.
Slavery did not end because the anti-slavery folks persuaded a majority of americans slavery was wrong. Slavery ended because GOD first changed the hearts of millions of Americans.
I suggest you read three books by Peter Marshall and David Emanuell, 1) The Light and the Glory, 2) From Sea to Shining Sea and 3) Sounding Forth the Trumpet.
They are easy reads and they will lead you to other books that will fill in the blanks that were not answered by your public school education and college education.
yor bro ken
Slavery did not end because the anti-slavery folks persuaded a majority of americans slavery was wrong. Slavery ended because GOD first changed the hearts of millions of Americans.
likewise with abortion. But our hearts are very hardened these days….
I don’t think it can be labeled good or bad.
There are many in the pro-life community who are not public, but are faithful. People who pray, knit booties, donate money anonymously, or a million things that don’t carry their name and number, and they are no less a prolife activist than those whose gifts include public speaking, writing, or organizing protests.
Bystander, Your liberal baby talk is really beginning to get old. Do some reading for yourself, instead of listening to these liberal airheads!
Jill? Are you still out there? Possibly still wanting to publish the documentary I sent you?
kbhvac, excellent rebuttal on the Operation Rescue slime job. The excellent reputation of OR is only enhanced by such slime throwing as YLT often engages in here.
I hope the lawsuit at least makes a strong impression of Ms. Napolitano, so that she will modify her nasty attacks on all conservatives in the future.
“Will it be good or bad if the Department of Homeland Security has not identified you as a pro-life activist?”
For me, it would be a great honor. But alas, I fear that I am too small a fish in the big pond to have been noticed by the Political Correctness Police of Ms Napolitano. Hey, I’d even frame it and hang it up on my wall…..
Thanks for starting a thread on this demonizing by Napolean tanno.
I posted this on another thread Thursday and it seems several congressmen are in their friendly way demanding supporting data. Give her a chance to show facts. Then she can hang herself on her own absence of facts.
Remember if she wants to make charges for demonizing the Conservatives, we can ask why she doesn’t demonize gays for which we have a deadly epidemic with supporting data called Aids.
xppc and others: You are aware, are you not, that the report on right wing extremism was a product of the Bush Justice Department, and was completed before Obama appointed Napolitano the new head of Homeland Security? You are aware, are you not, that she had nothing to do with it?
Even here, paranoid crazy talk needs to yield to truth, at least occasionally.
Bystander, no it wasn’t. I’m amazed that you can just come and lie and hope that no one calls you on it. Well I’m calling you on it.
Napolianano’s own team raised flags about releasing the report due to the very issues we’ve raised. She insisted on pushing it out anyways. Why would she be so desperate to get out a Bush era homeland security document that gives absolutely no specific threats? Think logically for once in your life.
Lauren, turn off Fox News and Limbaugh and think for yourself, for once in your life.
Bystander. Seriously? That’s your response?
Wow.
Lauren: Napolianano’s own team raised flags about releasing the report due to the very issues we’ve raised.
Bystander: turn off Fox News and Limbaugh and think for yourself
Hey Bystander, Google is very pro-Obama. Why not use it to prove or disprove Lauren’s statement instead of attacking?
“A Homeland Security official says the department’s office of civil rights and civil liberties objected to some of the language in the now-contentious right-wing extremism report, but the agency issued it anyway…Homeland Security spokeswoman Amy Kudwa said the report was issued before officials resolved problems raised by the agency’s civil rights division. She said this was a breakdown of the agency’s internal process.”
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jZZHEwYiYIf0cDyF0s0Fjmf54R-gD97JQFAG0
Actually Bystander, Rush quotes actual reports, documents, transcripts etc. He doesn’t rewrite or present tidbits of things to deliberately misconstrue the context or withhold information because it doesn’t suit their twisted agenda like the commentators and journalists to whom you listen.
Hey Bystander, Google is very pro-Obama. Why not use it to prove or disprove Lauren’s statement instead of attacking?
fed up: there’s only one reason! Mr B. doesn’t know how to use google! lol
Napolitano is a whack job, nut case.
LOL, angel. If only! I suspect Mr B can’t handle facts that (if he gave them serious thought) would cause him to reconsider the merit of his viewpoint or disrupt his flow of hatred.
Eileen #2, B doesn’t care whether Rush reports the truth because it’s irrelevant. Alinksy Rule #13: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Just like the attacks on Palin.
HisMan, I don’t know too much about her. I need to start finding out more.
Posted by: Bystander at April 19, 2009 10:00 AM
xppc and others: You are aware, are you not, that the report on right wing extremism was a product of the Bush Justice Department, and was completed before Obama appointed Napolitano the new head of Homeland Security?
———————————————————
Citizen’ arrest! Citizens arrest! Citizens arrest!
Bystander,
You have it completely backwards.
The ‘left wing’ report by the DHS was probably compiled while Bush was still in office. It is dated 1-26-09, less than one week after bho’s inaugeration.
The ‘right wing’ report by the DHS was dated April, 2009.
While it may be ‘possible’ that the Bush administration compiled the ‘right wing’ report, it is highly ‘probable’ that the Napolitano DHS redacted and edited it extensively.
If the Bush administration were soley responsible for the ‘right wing’ report then the bho adminstration would have blamed Bush for it.
That ‘IS’ their ‘go to’ strategy.
yor bro ken
Lauren,
“Bystander. Seriously? That’s your response? Wow. ”
I know! Very unreasonable human being that Bystander is.
Enjoy your paraniod crazy talk. Sorry to interrupt. They ARE coming to take you away.
FedUp, you are right. It is usually an exercise in futility when attempting to engage such close-minded individuals.
Ridiculing your opponent is also an Alinskian tactic. Liberals engage in that one a lot.
Bobby, Eileen#2, angel, Lauren, et al, speaking of coming to take you away, CBS is airing the story of Irena Sendler tonight.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15716
I think we should introduce Ethel to Bystander! What a loverly couple they would make!
I hope that your documentary is posted soon, Kate. I can’t wait to see it. :).
And all of this fighting…so crazy. And what was this thread’s topic, again? Ah, yes. To answer the question, I wouldn’t care if this did turn into a persecution-happy nation- though I think that we are nowhere near that- I would still identify myself as pro-life. And, I should hope (and feel) that everyone here would do the same. :). Being pro-life is negative in the eyes of many, but if we just keep plodding forwards (through stupid government lists and all) and keep in mind that anti-abortion activism is about human rights, not us, then I think that we’ll be fine.
Fed Up:
Go to http://www.LenMunsil.com and look at all the archived files on Napolitano and you will get a taste of how deceptive she is.
Bystander:
I would be very, very careful at how you level threats on this site.
HisMan, thank you very much. I’ll check out that site later when I have time.
Vannah, if you go to the next thread down on interns and check the comments, you can see the user name to search for on youtube. The vids were there last night anyway. Don’t want to post the link here in case PiP doesn’t want it. Definitely worth watching.
“Bobby, Eileen#2, angel, Lauren, et al, speaking of coming to take you away, CBS is airing the story of Irena Sendler tonight.”
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15716
Fed Up,
Thank you for the reminder about the Irena Sendler movie. I’m looking forward to it!!!!! Anyone who doubts the Catholic Church’s concern for those persecuted in the Holocaust may want to watch.
Coincidentally, this appeared in my Church bulletin this week:
The Pope and Nazism
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Regarding….. the Pope and Nazism: Pope Pius XI wrote an encyclical outright condemning Nazism in 1937 which was smuggled into Germany and read from every Catholic pulpit in that country. The rabbi of the Jewish Synagogue in Rome converted to Catholicism due in great part to the example of Pope Pius XII and his efforts on behalf of the Jewish people. Pope Pius XII also received the highest honor of Israel from Golda Meir who commented upon Pope Pius XII’s death: “We share in the grief of humanity. …When fearful martyrdom came to
our people, the voice of the Pope was raised for its victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out about great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace.” Albert Einstein wrote: “Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing truth. …The Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom.” I don’t know of any more knowledgeable of events, respected or worthy commentators on behalf of the Jewish people than Golda Meir and Albert Einstein.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
I would be very, very careful at how you level threats on this site.
Posted by: HisMan at April 19, 2009 2:47 PM
The second “very” makes this sound very serious….
How does Homeland Security define pro-life activist? Is it arbitrary?
Thanks for that heads up about the Irena Sendler movie. I knew there was a Broadway show, but not a movie. Recording it now to my DVD-R Recorder / HDD player.
oops, the movie is about the one who saved Jewish children (I think Jill posted an article about her death last year). The Broadway show is about a different woman, who saved 13 Jews by hiding them.
But both were CATHOLIC and named Irena. Ironic, huh?
Wasn’t Janet Napolitano the attorney for Anita Hill?
Isn’t her husband also a legal commentator on Fox?
Liberal Democrat Congressman Bennie Thompson, who oversees Homeland Security has described himself as “dumbfounded” by this report and has demanded an explanation. He is also very concerned about the violation of constitutional rights. When you have people on the opposite extremes of the political spectrum expressing the same concerns, you have to think there is reason for concern other than political persausion.
We have to keep in mind that she only does Obama’s bidding. Get rid of Napolitano and she is replaced with another Obama lapdog.
Using leftist logic, Timothy McVey bombing was truly triggered by the leftist recruiting.
Maybe they should have apologized about America to him.
Mary,
“Get rid of Napolitano and she is replaced with another Obama lapdog.”
I’d qualify that further….who may or may not have paid their taxes. The irony of it all –
MSM says – Obama appointees GOOD, Tea Partyers BAD.
* * * * * * * *
Following up on Chris’ much earlier post and link.
Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals begins with this dedication:
“Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history… the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.”
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm
Enough said.
Wasn’t Janet Napolitano the attorney for Anita Hill?
Isn’t her husband also a legal commentator on Fox?
Posted by: Mary at April 19, 2009 9:46 PM
Napolitano is a lesbian. Too anti social for a marriage to a real man.
Napolitano is a lesbian. Too anti social for a marriage to a real man.
Posted by: xppc at April 20, 2009 2:49 PM
Does it require less social skills to be in a lesbian partnership? I wouldn’t think so.
Posted by: Hal at April 20, 2009 4:18 PM
Does it require less social skills to be in a lesbian partnership? I wouldn’t think so.
—————————————————–
Depends on whether you are dominant partner or submissive partner.
Judging by Rosie O Donnell I do not believe social skills factors into the equation.
Height to weight ratios and pain thresholds might be more relevant.
yor bro ken
Ken, you’re much more endearing when you’re not gay bashing.