What does it profit a Catholic college?
by Carder
Add these schools to the growing “Catholic-institutions-who-forfeit-their-souls-in-order-to-gain-the-whole-world” list:
CNS News reveals Legal Momentum, together with the Georgetown Journal of Gender and Law, honored VP Joe Biden with the Legal Momentum Hero Award April 23 in honor of the 15th anniversary of the Violence Against Women Act.
Biden remarked, “You know there is no excuse for violence against a woman or child. There is no excuse.”
Legal Momentum’s Altagracia Levat offered, “We don’t consider abortion violence, but we have always been pro-choice.”
This college announced in March that avowed Roman Catholic political commentator Chris Matthews, a vocal proponent of abortion, will offer the 2009 Commencement address and receive an honorary doctorate in communications on May 16.
The Times-Picayune reports:
Archbishop Alfred Hughes has told Xavier University he will not attend its graduation ceremonies next month because he objects to the university’s decision to award an honorary degree to Donna Brazile, the veteran Democratic political strategist who supports abortion rights…
Brazile, a Catholic… is a familiar advocate on behalf of Democratic issues, working… [to] support…Democratic values that include defense of abortion rights and pursuit of ESCR.
Scandalous enough. However:
Three years ago, Xavier awarded an honorary degree to President Barack Obama, then an IL senator and rising Democratic star with a record for supporting abortion rights, without objection from Hughes.
But archdiocesan spokeswoman Sarah Comiskey said Hughes had not been aware of the honor to Obama…
What part of “Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions” do they not understand?
[Images courtesy of Courier-Journal.com, HarryWalker.com]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
“What part of “Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions” do they not understand?”
They don’t even care anymore, these places are run by libs now… Thats why there has to be penalty. These colleges should be stripped of the Catholic label.
Maybe they’re right and you guys are wrong.
Maybe they’re right and you guys are wrong.
Posted by: Hal at April 24, 2009 5:59 PM
Abortion is an abomination. It’s the taking of an innocent life. We aren’t wrong.
I agree with Joanne!!
Abortion is an abomination. It’s the taking of an innocent life. We aren’t wrong.
Posted by: Joanne at April 24, 2009 6:19 PM
Maybe it’s not.
Maybe it’s not.
Posted by: Hal at April 24, 2009 6:51 PM
You don’t think an unborn baby in the womb is innocent? What has he or she done to deserve getting their brains sucked out, torn apart limb from limb by some “doctor” who has no conscience?
I repeat…. it’s an ABOMINATION!
And Hal I’ve asked before and never gotten an answer…. but I really wonder why an abortion supporter and non believer spends so much time on a pro life blog? It’s not like you are going to change anyone’s mind here.
I wonder why any pro aborts hang around here to be honest.
Joanne: I know there are probably a few on here that **might** someday have a change of heart. I know we’ve had a few that its happened to, but some hearts are so hardened and don’t see the pain abortion has caused many women (Carla, Rowan’s mom, etc).
If there is anything I can say in defense of Hal, even though he can be off the wall, is that it forces us prolifers to streamline our message and provide a platform for truth.
Lots of lurkers come to this site, and seeing the exchange can go a long way in educating folks.
And shock them, too.
Remind me never to send my kids to Georgetown, St. Joseph’s , or Xavier U.
Abortion is an abomination. It’s the taking of an innocent life. We aren’t wrong.
Posted by: Joanne at April 24, 2009 6:19 PM
agreed. So sad that some believe the killing of an unborn baby is ok.
carder: don’t forget to add Notre Dame to that list.
I always wonder why people want the title, but not the actual doctrine. I mean, if you don’t want to support life, don’t be Catholic. No one is making you, you know? But, if say you are Catholic, then that means you ascribe to a certain set of beliefs. Seems like a no-brainer.
It really is time for these schools to be stripped of their “Catholic” titles.
When Catholic colleges bow or pander to the bishop more than they show concern for scholarship they render themselves as second class institutions. The church has greater problems than D. Brazille – how about helping the poor, healing the sick – Between the Bishops and the pope they are running themselves into a pit of irrelevance.
I wonder why any pro aborts hang around here to be honest.
Posted by: Joanne at April 24, 2009 7:21 PM
Because the more we listen to the fringes of conservatism (fast becoming the voice of conservatism) the more we learn to laugh and feel good in the knowledge that conservatives are running themselves aground without our help! It’s uplifting!
Yo La,
I could introduce you to Catholics around the world who
Feed the hungry
Give drink to the thirsty
Clothe the naked
Shelter the homeless
Visit the sick
Visit the imprisoned
Bury the dead
Admonish the sinner
Instruct the ignorant
Counsel the doubtful
Comfort the sorrowful
Bear wrongs patiently
Forgive all injuries
Pray for the living and the dead
Open your eyes and you will see.
“When Catholic colleges bow or pander to the bishop more than they show concern for scholarship they render themselves as second class institutions.”
Read anything by JPII, Benedict XVI, Archbishop Charles Chaput, etc then get back to us, YLT.
Catholic colleges and Universities that let liberals take over and promote ideals that **SATAN** would be proud of has no right calling themselves Catholic.
‘ the more we learn to laugh and feel good in the knowledge that conservatives are running themselves aground without our help! It’s uplifting!”
I want to be just like those compassionate liberals!
Catholic schools are not the only ones with confused identities, loyalities and missions.
—————————————————————-
http://www.newsevents.tcu.edu/1551.asp
Texas ‘Christian’ University reviews new ‘living learning communities’
Fort Worth, TX
4/13/2009
Statement from TCU Chancellor Victor J. Boschini, Jr.
TCU will not launch any new
‘living learning communities’…
based on ‘themed housing’…
“The University will maintain its long-standing commitment to the inclusiveness of all people.”
—————————————————————–
http://www.tcunewsnow.com/
Poll from the campus newspaper, Daily Skiff’s web site:
“What do you think about having a lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer and questioning Living Learning Community on campus?”
I’m all for it.
12% (6 votes)
I’m against it.
65% (34 votes)
I don’t mind either way.
19% (10 votes)
Not sure.
4% (2 votes)
Total votes: 52
—————————————————–
The ‘living learning experience’ of ‘themed housing’ for ‘lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer and questioning students’ is certainly cosmopolitan for a ‘christian’ college.
The toga parties will be stunning.
I am not quite sure how to understand the phrase ‘queer and questioning students’.
Is it intended to mean the ‘queer’ who is questioning other students as to their sexual orientation?
Or is it intended to mean students who have not yet matriculated concerning their own sexuality?
Or is it intended to simply mean college students who just have questions?
After reading Chancellor Boschini’s article in our local newspaper and listening to him being inteviewed on the local radio station, I am wondering if he was planning on moving into the proposed ‘themed housing’ or would just be taking advantage of the college subsidized trolling place.
“Consistent with it’s long-standing commitment to the inclusiveness of all people” TCU should provide ‘themed housing’ for Christians still clinging to their Saviors hand.
yor bro ken
Liz,
Notre Dame.
Of course.
“Between the Bishops and the pope they are running themselves into a pit of irrelevance.”
Wishful thinking for the past two thousand years…
Raymond Arroyo of EWTN had a great discussion tonight about this very subject with ‘Catholic’ colleges…
Is it intended to mean the ‘queer’ who is questioning other students as to their sexual orientation?
Or is it intended to mean students who have not yet matriculated concerning their own sexuality?
Posted by: kbhvac at April 24, 2009 10:01 PM
As someone with a Gender Studies degree, I can say with relative certainty that the “queer” term has been reclaimed by the gay community as a “positive” word- it means that the community would be comprised of people who identify as queer, (also the rest of the LGBT- bisexual, transgender), as well as people who yes, have not determined how they would like to identify their sexual orientation. Hence, “questioning.”
As to the other question about why pro-choicers read this site- personally I like to read it because all the commentary just reiterates to me why I hold the beliefs I do. That’s all.
I attended Xavier. Since they are a Catholic HBC, there was always an element of riding on of Catholicism to cater to a black identity. Being “black” and being “Catholic” are sort of mutually exclusive in American culture, partially due to the fact abortion has come to be seen as something of a “civil right”.
How sad. I will pray to St. Katharine Drexel as she founded Xavier. :(
I think this merely demonstrates how poorly the bishops leadership has been in the past 50 years in the US.
And how deeply entrenched liberation theology has become in Catholic institutions.
It will likely take a major persecution to rid of us these “snakes”.
In a very strange way the people on this board that I have known for the past couple of years have come to be like family to me. I happen to care about the ones that stay even though they are in the minority on a prolife blog. I admire their courage and their spunk to continually share their prochoice or proabortion views which I vehemently disagree with. It probably goes without saying that the PL here share a very special bond. Indeed.
Of course, there are hundreds of thousands of readers that do not comment and need to see and hear the truth about abortion.
Hal,
I would miss you if you stopped coming here. You have always been respectful of me and my story. :)
yes Carla, I agree.
It would be wonderful to have Hal come to the realization that abortion is an abomination. I think his two children in heaven would be greatly rejoicing!
I have a friend who is a math professor at St. Joseph’s University. I had heard that they were CINO, and so this just continues to affirm it.
“Because the more we listen to the fringes of conservatism (fast becoming the voice of conservatism) the more we learn to laugh and feel good in the knowledge that conservatives are running themselves aground without our help! It’s uplifting!”
Ah. Good to know you’re not actually here because you care about open and honest dialogue as well as finding truth, yet to satisfy your own sense of superiority.
“When Catholic colleges bow or pander to the bishop more than they show concern for scholarship…”
What is an example of this? The whole question is one of morality and ethics, not simply bowing or pandering. Do you believe that scholarship is more important and trumps ethics?
AND THEN THE COCK CROWED THRICE
From U.S. News:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnews/20090421/ts_usnews/warrenfrompeacemakertolightningrod
“When I asked him before the last election whether the Christian right had tarnished the image of American evangelicals, Warren didn’t blink: “without a doubt.”
“I never was a part of it,” Warren said of the Christian right. “I’m trying to stake out what I call a common ground for the common good.”“….in an interview last week with CNN’s Larry King. “[I] never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop. 8 was going,” Warren told King,
even though he’d taped a video urging his Orange County congregation to support the gay marriage ban.
Warren argued that encouraging parishioners to back Prop. 8 doesn’t make him an activist against gay marriage.”
——————————————————-
When asked if Rick Warren had tarnished HIS image, American evangelicals did not blink, “Without a doubt.”
Urging his congregation to support a ban on gay marriage may not make Rick Warren an ‘activist’ but it certainly identified him as one who advocated for public policy that reflected a biblical world view.
The ‘straight and narrow path’ is NOT the ‘middle of the road’, consensus or the ‘common ground’.
Followers of Christ are not called to be ‘culturally relevant’ but rather ‘salt and light’.
Our very presence is supposed to inform and influence the world around us.
Matt 5:13-16 You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste (its strength, its quality), how can its saltness be restored? It is not good for anything any longer but to be thrown out and trodden underfoot by men. You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do men light a lamp and put it under a peck measure, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all in the house. Let your light so shine before men that they may see your moral excellence and your praiseworthy, noble, and good deeds and recognize and honor and praise and glorify your Father Who is in heaven. AMP
Mark 9:49-50 For everyone shall be salted with fire. Salt is good (beneficial), but if salt has lost its saltness, how will you restore [the saltness to] it? Have salt within yourselves, and be at peace and live in harmony with one another. AMP
Luke 14:34-35 Salt is good [an excellent thing], but if salt has lost its strength and has become saltless (insipid, flat), how shall its saltness be restored? It is fit neither for the land nor for the manure heap; men throw it away. He who has ears to hear, let him listen and consider and comprehend by hearing! AMP
2 Cor 2:14-17 But thanks be to God, Who in Christ always leads us in triumph [as trophies of Christ’s victory] and through us spreads and makes evident the fragrance of the knowledge of God everywhere, For we are the sweet fragrance of Christ [which exhales] unto God, [discernible alike] among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing: To the latter it is an aroma [wafted] from death to death [a fatal odor, the smell of doom]; to the former it is an aroma from life to life [a vital fragrance, living and fresh]. And who is qualified (fit and sufficient) for these things? [Who is able for such a ministry? We?] For we are not, like so many, [like hucksters making a trade of] peddling God’s Word [shortchanging and adulterating the divine message]; but like [men] of sincerity and the purest motive, as [commissioned and sent] by God, we speak [His message] in Christ (the Messiah), in the [very] sight and presence of God. AMP
Rick Warren’s vacillating, capitulating and squirming is reminiscent of a dog in a kennel at meal time.
Brother Warren sure seems to be seeking the acknowledgement and the approval of men.
Reminds me of a line I read somewhere:
Welcome to the Broadway Church of the Half Saved, Pastor Luke Warm presiding.
yor bro ken
Ah. Good to know you’re not actually here because you care about open and honest dialogue as well as finding truth, yet to satisfy your own sense of superiority.
Posted by: Bobby Bambino at April 25, 2009 7:56 AM
since WHEN has the liberal left ever had the intention of discovering the truth.
It’s more about ramming their idea of truth down everyone else’s throat.
Didn’t you know that only Christians are the only intolerant bigots left in society?
“Raymond Arroyo of EWTN had a great discussion tonight about this very subject with ‘Catholic’ colleges…”
Jasper, I love Raymond. He’d make a great Ambassador to the Vatican but then he’d probably have to leave EWTN. No way!
* * * * *
Yo La Tengo said: “When Catholic colleges bow or pander to the bishop more than they show concern for scholarship…”
“What is an example of this? The whole question is one of morality and ethics, not simply bowing or pandering. Do you believe that scholarship is more important and trumps ethics?”
Posted by: Bobby Bambino at April 25, 2009 7:59 AM
Bobby, This is the million dollar question that these CINO’s should be asking themselves. Thanks to Yo La Tengo for his contribution to this thread.
Its my observation that dedicated liberal Democrats are that first and foremost. Their Catholic and Jewish faiths will take second place.
Look at the Catholic Kennedy family. I read that Jewish people did this to be more accepted by a very bigoted society and to appear less Jewish. Black people continue their blind devotion to Democrats despite the Democrat history of keeping black people “in their place”.
The left has long made heroes of leftist dictators and mass murderers, including Mao and Stalin, while decrying the crimes of “fascist” Hitler, who by the way looked like a choirboy next to Mao and Stalin.
I believe it was Joan Baez, the great pacifist and anti-war champion, who was asked about repression in post war Vietnam. Her reply was that she did not criticize socialist governments.
Oh, so its OK when “socialists” abuse their citizens.
Our left wing president kisses up to the Castro brothers and closes Guantanamo, but apparently has no qualms about Castro’s prisons. Castro has also made it plain his political prisoners won’t be released any time soon and that he is not particulary impressed with our fearless leader. Old Fidel called Obama “superficial”.
Our multimillionaire Hollywood leftists kiss the backside of Hugo Chavez despite the fact they would not enjoy the artistic freedom and wealth under Chavez that they enjoy here. Its irrelevant to them that Chavez has silenced dissent in his country.
good post Mary!
Not all Christians are intolerant bigots. And not all intolerant bigots are Christians.
Hal,
I would miss you if you stopped coming here. You have always been respectful of me and my story. :)
Posted by: Carla at April 25, 2009 7:10 AM
Thanks Carla, you have always been kind too.
Your story is the only information I’ve read about here that has moved my position and understanding of abortion. As I told you before, I’ll always be on the lookout for a young pregnant woman who feels like she has no choice, and I’ll makes sure she has choices.
” Not all Christians are intolerant bigots. And not all intolerant bigots are Christians. ”
Ho ho! That’s about as far away from a biconditional statement as you can get!
As usual, Mary nails it. To our friend, Hal, we have only this to say in response to your offering that “maybe they are right and you guys are wrong.” Perhaps you are playing us, but nevertheless I will answer in good faith: They ARE wrong, just as we know murder is wrong.
Angel and Jerry,
Thank you.
Black people continue their blind devotion to Democrats despite the Democrat history of keeping black people “in their place”.
Posted by: Mary at April 25, 2009 10:29 AM
ummm, the White House?
No, the trash heap. Ask the founder of Planned Parenthood.
Jon,
You mean of course Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, who addressed the women’s auxilliary of the KKK?
How nice the ladies could take a day off from burning crosses and lynching black citizens to attend. BTW, Democrats opposed anti-lynching legislation proposed by Eleanor Roosevelt.
Didn’t Sanger also initiate “The Negro Project”?
Didn’t Obama address Planned Parenthood?
“the white house”!!!!!! Oh how you set yourself up for that one. Priceless!
Is Mr. Obama a black person?
Hal 12:06PM
No Hal I meant the establishment of the KKK and segregation by Democrats. Also the opposition by Democrats to civil and voting rights by Democrats.
Maybe what helped get a black man into the White House was the help Republicans gave to Lyndon Johnson to pass voting and civil rights legislation that was being filibustered in the House and Senate by Democrats.
One must wonder how much longer black Americans would have been relegated to the back of the bus, and kept from the voting booth, if Democrats had had their way.
African Americans were fiercely Republican for many years. They did not support Democrats in large numbers at all during the days of the establishment of the KKK and segregation by the Democrats. (In fact, in the South, they were not allowed to vote at all for the most part)
The modern Democratic party, which does enjoy broad support from African Americans is a descendant of that earlier party, but is quite different in many important respects.
Hal 12:37PM
Fact remains that without Republican support, black Americans would have spent more time at the back of the bus and away from the voting booth.
BTW, one of the filibustering Democrat senators, Robert(Sheets) Byrd, ex-klansman and klan recruiter, has enjoyed a long career in the Senate. He was never asked to leave by his fellow “different” Democrats, nor was any “different” Democrat ever encouraged by “different” Democrats to oppose Byrd in a primary.
Posted by: Jon at April 25, 2009 12:29 PM
Is Mr. Obama a black person?
—————————————————-
pbho is actually a dark brown in complexion.
While pbho may be african, he is not american.
yor bro ken
Mary, do partisan attacks like this make your happy? I’m perfectly willing to appreciate the efforts of the Republicans of past generations. Wish we had some of those around today. The current crop is not quite so inspirational.
You want more people to vote Republican? Then the Republican party needs to earn their votes.
For Jasper:
Why A Catholic Despises Torture
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/04/why-a-catholic-despises-torture.html
“They poison human society, but they do more harm to those who practice them than those who suffer from the injury. Moreover, they are supreme dishonor to the Creator.”
Mary,
Ouch!
To quote former reprobate in chief and bed hoppin head of state Bill Clinton to his rape victim Juanitat Broderick:
“You [liberals] should put some ice on that. It’s going to leave a mark.”
It is only a partisan attack if is leveled at democrats.
If you go after republicans, you are being reasonable, moderate, and correct.
Now, all you egalitarian liberal humanist democrats, let us hear some factual, rational, academic attacks on republicans, especially their misogynistic, homophobic, racist tendancies.
yor bro ken
Hal,
Here is the rest of the quote:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/04/why-a-catholic-despises-torture.html
Furthermore, whatever is opposed to life itself, such as any type of murder, genocide, abortion, euthanasia or wilful self-destruction, whatever violates the integrity of the human person, such as mutilation, torments inflicted on body or mind, attempts to coerce the will itself; whatever insults human dignity, such as subhuman living conditions, arbitrary imprisonment, deportation, slavery, prostitution, the selling of women and children; as well as disgraceful working conditions, where men are treated as mere tools for profit, rather than as free and responsible persons; all these things and others of their like are infamies indeed. They poison human society, but they do more harm to those who practice them than those who suffer from the injury. Moreover, they are supreme dishonor to the Creator.
—————————————————
I acknowledge your penchant for brevity, but the full quote is edifying for any thinking human.
It also supports my contention that dehumanizing the intended victim does not deminish the reality of who they are. The self imposed delusion only deminishes the oppressor.
yor bro ken
Despite what Obama, his admin. and the Left would like us to think — the U.S. did not torture. This whole business is a ploy to divert U.S. citizens from the rest of the mess that O is furthering to advance on the country.
I would like to also say that the terrorists that were harshly interrogated (not tortured) were not coerced to do or say anything humiliating or degrading but to reveal the facts of what was in the planning in the way of murdering or wreaking havoc on other human beings.
Eileen, don’t let partisanship diminish your humanity. We did indeed torture.
Read what’s out there. Keep an open mind. Prepare to be outraged.
Abortionist Leroy Carhart testifying under oath in court of law in response to questions from his attorney:
————————————————–
Question: Are there times when you don’t remove the [human] fetus intact?
Carhart: Yes, sir.
Question: What do you do then?
Carhart: My normal course would be to dismember that extremity and then go back and try to take the [human] fetus out either foot or skull first, whatever end I can get to first.
Question: How do you go about dismembering that extremity?
Carhart: Just traction and rotation, grasping the portion that you can get a hold of which would be usually somewhere up the shaft of the exposed portion of the [human] fetus, pulling down on it through the os, using the internal os as your counter-traction and rotating to dismember the shoulder or the hip or whatever it would be. Sometimes you will get one leg and you can’t get the other leg out.
Question: In that situation, are you, when you pull on the arm and remove it, is the [human] fetus still alive?
Carhart: Yes
Question: Do you consider an arm, for example, to be a substantial portion of the [human] fetus?
Carhart: In the way I read it, I think if I lost my arm, that would be a substantial loss to me. I think I would have to interpret it that way.
—————————————————
Now, let us discuss the subject of torture.
And while we do, please explain to me how abortionist Leroy Carhart is any different from the jihadists who saws off the head of his living victim and video tapes the act of brutal barbarism so he can proudly broadcast the act to the entire world.
yor bro ken
Pardon me if the selective outrage of the leftist political opportunist does not carry much weight with me.
The opportunist in chief is pbho. This self serving duplicitous hypocrit actively resisted efforts to protect premature infants born alive as a result of late term abortions.
pbho voted against an act of congress that would prohibit partial birth abortions. The kind described in my previous post.
These premature infants are completely innocent of any crime. There is no allegation against them of any evil intent.
yor bro ken
You cannot attack the previous administration on the subject of torture and simultaneously defend the present administration on the subject of partial birth abortion and be taken seriously by any person who has a modicum of compassion.
yor bro ken
Hal 1PM
My friend those are not “partisan attacks”. They’re what’s known as inconvenient and politically incorrect American history. My very favorite kind of history I might add.
You cannot attack the previous administration on the subject of torture and simultaneously defend the present administration on the subject of partial birth abortion and be taken seriously by any person who has a modicum of compassion.
yor bro ken
Actually you can. Partial birth abortion is done on tissue that is not alive. Torture is done on actual human beings.
Our left wing president kisses up to the Castro brothers and closes Guantanamo, but apparently has no qualms about Castro’s prisons. Castro has also made it plain his political prisoners won’t be released any time soon and that he is not particulary impressed with our fearless leader. Old Fidel called Obama “superficial”.
Our multimillionaire Hollywood leftists kiss the backside of Hugo Chavez despite the fact they would not enjoy the artistic freedom and wealth under Chavez that they enjoy here. Its irrelevant to them that Chavez has silenced dissent in his country.
Posted by: Mary at April 25, 2009 10:29 AM
Mary – your knowledge of history is quite shallow. Ronald Reagan sold arms to Iran and lied about it to congress and Donald Rumsfeld was seen shaking hands with Saddam Hussein, who we later hated enough to have him killed.
You make me laugh!
Eileen, don’t let partisanship diminish your humanity. We did indeed torture.
Read what’s out there. Keep an open mind. Prepare to be outraged.
Posted by: Hal at April 25, 2009 1:59 PM
yes, if only YOU would do this Hal, you might not think abortion was such a “choice”.
“Partial birth abortion is done on tissue that is not alive. Torture is done on actual human beings.”
YLT,
thank-you for explaining that.. LOL.
YLT,
No, my knowledge of history is anything but shallow. I’m well aware this country climbed in bed with Saddam Hussein and supported various dictators.
So spare me your laughter.
My point was that the people who have condemned “right wing” fascism and consider themselves such bastions of tolerance and defenders of the downtrodden, have supported the likes of Stalin, Mao, and Castro.
To see some of these left wing “revolutionaries” with pictures of Mao, the greatest mass murderer of our time, is a bit disingenuous.
If you want to laugh look at the Hollywood hobnobs, who have benefitted immensely from capitalism and the freedom this country offers, bow down and kiss the backside of Hugo Chavez.
Even funnier, look at Fidel Castro giving Obama the finger, despite Obama’s best efforts to suck up to him. I guess our fearless leader still has to learn that sucking up to dictators doesn’t earn their respect.
Actually you can. Partial birth abortion is done on tissue that is not alive. Torture is done on actual human beings.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 25, 2009 2:59 PM
Oh wow. You don’t have to be pro-life to realize that purely objective science tell us that the tissue of a fetus is alive. What you said is straight up silly.
Actually you can. Partial birth abortion is done on tissue that is not alive. Torture is done on actual human beings.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 25, 2009 2:59 PM
wow. I’m speechless. :(
Let’s see…. pouring water in the faces of someone who would throw acid in the face of a young girl….
… putting a caterpillar in a box of someone who would strap explosives to a young person and send them into public…
… making a full grown adult male wear diapers… someone who if given half a chance would slit your throat on video and send it to the world press and your loved ones…
… making uncomfortable and exhausted those who would kill and maim hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in order to get information that would stop those attacks…
And we’re the ones in the wrong?
I hasten to add, that we are no more human to those who seek to destroy us (we are infidels, less than human) than unborn babies are to those who seek to destroy them…
Actually you can. Partial birth abortion is done on tissue that is not alive. Torture is done on actual human beings.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 25, 2009 2:59 PM
Oh. My. Goodness.
“Let’s see…. pouring water in the faces of someone who would throw acid in the face of a young girl….
… putting a caterpillar in a box of someone who would strap explosives to a young person and send them into public…
… making a full grown adult male wear diapers… someone who if given half a chance would slit your throat on video and send it to the world press and your loved ones…
… making uncomfortable and exhausted those who would kill and maim hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in order to get information that would stop those attacks…
And we’re the ones in the wrong?”
We’re both in the wrong. The difference is, we hold ourselves to higher standards than our enemies and this is the foundation of our society. We uphold a concept of human dignity and worth even when our enemies do not and we abdicate these western values of ours when we lower ourselves to their standards by engaging in things like torture.
And tell me, in the name of “fighting terrorism,” why must we draw the line at torture (or “enhanced interrogation” or whatever other cop-out euphemisms you prefer)? These “jihadis” still have families and friends, why don’t we kidnap their children and threaten to kill them to get what we want? Why don’t we just carpet bomb entire portions of civilian-populated areas when we know there are potential terrorists also in these areas? Maybe we got it right with My Lai and if we had just had enough brave men like those willing to play hardball with the Vietcong we would have won the Vietnam War. Consequentialism is a tricky business, isn’t it?
“Partial birth abortion is done on tissue that is not alive.”
Good job, YLT!! Very impressive.
Actually, YLT’s comment helps me understand how someone could support partial birth abortion, if only because of pure scientific unknowing. We do not hold it against someone if they are misinformed. Hopefully, from this point forward YLT will now understand what takes place during a partial birth abortion.
As a basis of comparison there were of course many people who believed, as in Dred Scott, that blacks were property. It took a long time and much bloodshed for us to get beyond those days, but get beyond it we did.
Those who hold that unborn babies are not babies because they are unborn will eventually go the way of those who resisted racial equality. Again, there is much bloodshed–50 million killed so far– and the quest for justice for the unborn has taken far too long already, but we will get to that point where the rights of the unborn are enshrined in law.
Corsair,
I suppose that’s easy to say if you’re not the one falling from the 98th floor.
Until then, I can’t wait to see the look on your face when we get attacked again thanks to our brave new prez attempting to appear righteous.
The joy that must be sweeping Tora Bora right now!
” These “jihadis” still have families and friends, why don’t we kidnap their children and threaten to kill them to get what we want? Why don’t we just carpet bomb entire portions of civilian-populated areas when we know there are potential terrorists also in these areas?”
There is a huge moral difference between what you suggest and the harsh interrogation which is what was done. Maybe you need to be dropped off in the middle of things in Afghanistan or Iraq to experience a little reality.
Hal,
if you have access to EWTN, watch The World Over with Raymond Arroyo, at 3 pm, CST, Sunday or 10 pm Monday. He interviews Fr. Robert Sirico about the torture allegations.
ken and Mary — spot on as always!!!
Corsair,
OK, exactly how do you suggest we extract information from terrorists? Ask them nice? Say please and thank you?
The real irony is that these terrorists laugh at you and others of your mentality. Terrorists do not respect weakness or efforts to be nice.
Just like Castro giving the finger to Obama who thinks sucking up to dictators will make them do nice things, like releasing political prisoners.
Mary, it’s no big deal if more people die — just as long as we adhere to our “higher standards”!
Ya thunk Mr. Bitem needs another hole in his head?
To say that abortion isn’t violence reveals either gross stupidity or a complete denial of reality.
In a Liberal’s case, it means both.
YLT:
Your lows get lower.
HisMan,
How’s the little one? :)
Let us see if we can connect the dots for our logic intolerant friends.
YLT, reality, Danielle, Corsair, Robert Berger pay close attention.
From the Revised Code of Washington State, found as a result of HAL’s suggestion to read some unbiased sources of information. Actually the source is not completely absent of bias, but the bias is not pro-life.
———————————————————
RCW 9A.32.010 Homicide defined.
Homicide is the killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or omission of another, death occurring at any time, and is either
(1) murder,
(2) homicide by abuse,
(3) manslaughter,
(4) excusable homicide, or
(5) justifiable homicide.
RCW 9.02.170 Definitions.
For purposes of this chapter:
(1) “Viability” means the point in the pregnancy when, in the judgment of the physician on the particular facts of the case before such physician, there is a reasonable likelihood of the fetus’s sustained survival outside the uterus without the application of extraordinary medical measures.
(2) “Abortion” means any medical treatment intended to induce the termination of a pregnancy
except
for the purpose of producing a live birth.
RCW 70.58.150 “Fetal death,” “evidence of life,” defined.
A fetal death means any product of conception that shows no evidence of life after complete expulsion or extraction from its mother.
The words “evidence of life” include
breathing,
beating of the heart,
pulsation of the umbilical cord, or
definite movement of voluntary muscles.
RCW 70.58.160 Certificate of death or fetal death required.
A certificate of every death or fetal death shall be filed with the local registrar of the district in which the death or fetal death occurred within three business days after the occurrence is known, or if the place of death or fetal death is not known, then with the local registrar of the district in which the human remains are found within one business day thereafter. In every instance a certificate shall be filed prior to the interment or other disposition of the human remains. However, a certificate of fetal death shall not be required if the period of gestation is less than twenty weeks.
RCW 9.02.050 Concealing birth.
Every person who shall endeavor to conceal the birth of a child by any disposition of its dead body, whether the child died before or after its birth, shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor.
——————————————————–
Women do not conceive, gestate and give birth to anything but human beings, therefore the primary product of conception is a human ovum/embryo/fetus.
If the purpose of an elective abortion is NOT for the obtaining of a live birth, as in a cesarean section, then the purpose of an elective abortion is to kill the living human embryo/fetus.
The evidence of life being breathing, beating of the heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles.
As late term partial birth abortionist specialist Leroy Carhart so eloquently testified, under oath, in a court of law:
“My intent in every abortion I have ever done is to kill the [human] fetus and terminate the pregnancy.”
If the embryo/fetus is human and it exhibits evidences of life, then elecive abortion is homicide, the killing of a living human being.
“Every person who shall endeavor to conceal the birth of a
child
by any disposition of its dead body, whether the child died before or after its birth, shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor.”
The previous statute sure seems to imply that the child was a child before his/her birth.
Why would the state be interested in recording ‘fetal deaths’ if the fetuses were not human?
Why bother?
When I last checked no late term abortionist in Washington State had ever filed a fetal death certificiate for prenatal infants he had killed that were more that 20 weeks in gestation.
That would be like the abortionists turning himself into the IRS for all the undeclared cash income he had received from murdering prenatal human fetuses/infants.
The same premature infants who the state has said would be legally entitled to medical treatment if they survived their attempted murder.
yor bro ken
RCW 18.71.240 Abortion — Right to medical treatment of infant born alive.
The right of medical treatment of an infant born alive in the course of an abortion procedure shall be the same as the right of an infant born prematurely of equal gestational age.
yor bro ken
YLT, D&X abortions (the proper name for so-called “partial-birth abortions”) are most definately not preformed on “non-living tissue.” You need to study some medical textbooks on human development…continued
Late-term abortions such as these are preformed after 23 wks gestation, with viability at 25 wks. At this point in time, all the organs are fully developed only needing to mature & it is determined that at viability the fetus can survive outside the woman’s body. These fetuses are the same as the neonates of the same gestational age breathing & crying in the neonatal icu.
YLT, reality, Danielle, Corsair, Robert Berger
If human fetuses are not alive, then why would the State of Washington, hardly a bastion of pro-life sentiment, require a fetal death certificate?
RCW 70.58.160 Certificate of death or fetal death required.
“A certificate of every death or fetal death shall be filed with the local registrar of the district in which the death or fetal death occurred within three business days after the occurrence is known, or if the place of death or fetal death is not known, then with the local registrar of the district in which the human remains are found within one business day thereafter. In every instance a certificate shall be filed prior to the interment or other disposition of the human remains. However, a certificate of fetal death shall not be required if the period of gestation is less than twenty weeks.”
yor bro ken
YLT, reality, Danielle, Corsair, Robert Berger
If human fetuses are not human beings then why would the State of Washington extend to them the right to medical treatment when they are fortunate enough to survive their attempted murder by a abortionist.
RCW 18.71.240 Abortion — Right to medical treatment of infant born alive.
“The right of medical treatment of an infant born alive in the course of an abortion procedure shall be the same as the right of an infant born prematurely of equal gestational age.”
yor bro ken
YLT, reality, Danielle, Corsair, Robert Berger
If the human fetus is not alive, then why does the abortionist see the need to kill them?
As late term partial birth abortionist specialist Leroy Carhart so eloquently testified, under oath, in a court of law:
“My intent in every abortion I have ever done is to kill the [human] fetus and terminate the pregnancy.”
yor bro ken
Maybe they’re right and you guys are wrong.
Posted by: Hal at April 24, 2009 5:59 PM
Hal, if these institutions are calling themselves Catholic, one should expect them to uphold the teachings of the Catholic Church. It’s that simple.
Catholic teaching isn’t written by Catholic university presidents and professors. And Catholic teaching is steadfastly opposed to the Culture of Death as represented by the above-named individuals who were honored at so-called Catholic universities.
It’s a simple matter of integrity, Hal.
Maybe it’s not.
Posted by: Hal at April 24, 2009 6:51 PM
Doesn’t matter what you think, Hal. The Church teaches that it IS, and thus, Catholic universities, if they are to continue to identify themselves as such, ought to agree, and further, ought to stop taking actions that might indicate otherwise.
When Catholic colleges bow or pander to the bishop more than they show concern for scholarship they render themselves as second class institutions.
Posted by: Yo La tengo at April 24, 2009 9:11 PM
No, they don’t. Bishops stand in places of authority in the Catholic Church. Thus, Catholic universities, if they choose to continue identifying as such, are obliged to listen to them.
Posted by: Mary at April 25, 2009 3:30 PM
The “fascists” that you mentioned are all dead or dying. The Fascists on the right are actually alive, and still think they are in power (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld). Not much you can do about the dead, but don’t you think we should prosecute the fascists that are alive? Or is a senate hearing only to be called for matters of stained dresses?