Well, at least they have “45 Million Voices”
There’s a novel new pro-abort website in town, 45 Million Voices.
Pro-lifers will recognize the irony of the site’s name and purpose one millisecond after reading what it’s about. I have a hard time imagining how those behind 45 Million Voices missed how sociopathic their premise is…
45 Million Voices is a nonprofit organization dedicated to eliminating the stigma, shame, and silence surrounding abortion through education, empowerment, and sisterhood….
In this virtual space, we will share women’s stories of their abortions, unedited, posted as they are submitted to us. The goal is to provide a safe space to listen women into voice. A space where stigma is eradicated, silence is broken, and honesty prevails through the power of love and support….
[JLS note: This sounds to me like an invitation for post-abortive pro-life moms to submit their stories. Let’s see how honest these people are.]
The entire anti-abortion movement is dedicated to keeping women who have had an abortion silent. This is their strategy, and, unfortunately, it has been effective. By keeping women silent, fearful to say that they have had an abortion, shame is induced and automatically attached to abortion.
But we know now that this is a strategy. And now we can combat it.
With our voices. It is our most powerful asset.
At first, your voice might crackle a bit. At first, you might feel unsure, scared, intimidated. And why not? You have been inundated with a message over and over that having an abortion means you are a bad person and you should keep quiet.
Or maybe, your voice is ready. Maybe you have already been using your voice, telling your story. Now, you will have company. You will be joined by other voices, saying together “We have had abortions….”
Why 45 Million Voices? The name of the organization refers to the following statistic from the Guttmacher Institute: From 1973 through 2005, more than 45 million legal abortions occurred.
Why no, I can’t imagine how loud they must be, really. 45 million babies babbling at once? No, I can’t imagine it.
And actually, the stat is old. It wouldn’t have been hard to do the math and come up with an accurate name. 45,000,000 / 32 x 37 = 52,031,250.
52 Million Voices is more like it.
Read the stories. They sure don’t make abortion sound like a shining beacon on the hill. They’re heartbreaking. Stories of mistakes, fear, abandonment, selfishness, denial, drugs, threats, duress, exploitation. They always depict abortion as a consequence, not an achievement.
This is an exercise in futility. It is not people on the outside who make a mother feel guilty for killing her child. It is her instinctive maternal voice. It is her child’s voice. It is her voice of sanity, attempting to reason against the perverse…
The only way out is to admit to oneself what one has done, repent, and seek and accept forgiveness from God. Truly, it’s the only way.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I actually met a woman in the halls of the legislature that said, I had an abortion and it made me a better mother.” Really, to which child?
I really have to say this, it really is true:
The abortionists are completely clueless!
This is stunningly sad and sick. Unbelievable…using the 45 million who were aborted (what about their voices?) to further the abortion cause. It’s beyond comprehension.
Once again, it shows the complete and utter lie of “choice” they seek to promote.
From 1973 through 2005, more than 45 million legal abortions occurred.
Okay, but that doesn’t mean 45 million women had abortions.
“The entire anti-abortion movement is dedicated to keeping women who have had an abortion silent.”
Tell this to the thousands of women speaking out everyday about the pain of the abortion(s) they had, while standing with Pro-life people.
Nothing short of repulsive.
Half of the abortions in any given year are the first abortion for that woman. Therefore, the highest number of women who could voice their opinion would be about 26 million.
Half of the abortions in any given year are the first abortion for that woman. Therefore, the highest number of women who could voice their opinion would be about 26 million.
What? Logic? No, no. Logic does not apply to the pro-aborts. They are above such things like logic and common sense and the ability to do math.
I just sent in my story. Yeah. They will totally put it with all of the other stories about how abortion was THE BEST THING I HAVE EVER DONE!
If the prolife movement has tried to silence me why have I been allowed to yap here about my abortion experience for almost 2 1/2 years?? Thank you, Jill. :)
Alice,
You took the words right out of my mouth. This is exactly what Fr Pavone at Priests for Life has on the Silent No More page. I contributed last year.
Did Jill send him this info? The pro-life movement is not trying to silence women who have made a mistake at all, but trying to heal them. Silent No More and Project Rachel are the first two that spring to mind.
PP has crossed the line from repulsive into evil. They are trying for a battle or two but are going to lose the fight as more and more people see through their lies.
Anybody have the email of the “SIlent No More” group?
Let’s inundate “their” website to the TRUE horror of abortion (for both men and women) and see where this ends up?
Maybe we can also get Gianna G. to log on and comment ?
Carla, I was thinking you’d be first in line to submit your story. Let me know if they’re “honest” (their word, not mind, to describe themselves) enough to post it.
http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org
RSD — you can get there through a link on the Priests for Life page. Fr Pavone was here last year fundraising and supporting 40 Days for Life and asked people to support it. Or just google.
I think this would have been a better masthead.
I think we should inundate 45 Million Voices with stories of abortion regret as well.
Plus, didn’t you guys know that “Everyone’s doin’ it!” is a perfectly good reason for a normally abhorrent behavior to be considered acceptable. Totally.
Carla: the best thing? Others have had less bubbly experiences.
I remember a friend with whom I went out to dinner, openly weeping at the table in view of everyone in the restaurant, wondering if their aborted child would have been a boy or a girl, an artist, liked sports, played piano, or have been good at math…and how they’d never know.
I’ve never forgotten that moment.
I skimmed the stories there and read that sentiment a couple of times. That abortion was the best thing these women have ever done.
That is why I sent in my story of abortion regret.
This is perfect ’cause the more pro-aborts open their mouths, the more they hurt their cause.
What about the 45,000 (or 52,000?) men whose sperm helped create the babies? Doesn’t his voice matter?
OK, internet break over, but does anybody know if there is such a thing as patent or copyright infringement on line? Internet law is still evolving.
Their concept is blatantly stolen from the Priests for Life “Silent no More” campaign. Or are they trying to provoke a lawsuit for publicity? If they censor stories from women who do regret their abortions, there goes the free speech defense, so their statistics of regret vs “best thing I ever did” will be interesting.
This is why I’m not a lawyer, it makes my head spin. Those women are foul, especially the ones who turned their trip to procure an abortion in NYC into a four day vacation, so they had fun after all. Ick!
Thank you, Janet. We of the less-fair sex appreciate the remembrance.
JP
JP Prichard,
You’re quite welcome. It really bugs me that pro-aborts treat men like they’re sub-human. How ironic that in doing so they’ve raised two generations of wimpy, pro-abort men.
* * *
Cranky,
Great graphic!
It the what we believe column, the last statement was
Abortion is an act of love. Are you kidding me!!! for who? I guess it’s an act of love for themselves and not for that baby.
Good one, Cranky.
I’ve blogged about this, have e-mailed the blogmistresses over at the After Abortion blog, and will post a message at the Silent No More Awareness page on Facebook.
By painting it as strictly a “women’s” issue, they have essentially eliminated half of their opposition, or in other words, executed the old divide-and-conquer ploy by saying men are ineligible from even being able to discuss it or have an opinion. It’s not that women are pushovers, but if abortion proponents insist that half of the warriors in the battle can’t even pick up arms and fight, then their war on the unborn will certainly be easier.
its not pro lifers that silent these women, its the pro aborts that silence the women like Carla who deeply REGRET their abortions. They want to silence women like Carla so others will continue to abort over and over, thinking its “not a baby”.
Something telling:
“I asked to see the ultrasound, but was told it wasn’t a good idea.”
Why would they tell her seeing a picture of her baby would be a bad idea?
@surfcitysocial:
Actually, that’s yet another strategy that’s backfiring on them. In fact, RH Reality Check has just been lamenting that pro-choice men are less likely to voice their opinions on abortion than are pro-life men.
Pro-choicers marginalize and silence men. They simultaneously villify men for being partially responsible for a pregnancy whilst telling them they aren’t allowed to actually shoulder any of that responsibility and that they are wrong to try. It’s no wonder pro-choice men don’t speak up. This kind of misandry is only divisive and conquering to their side.
I say they should keep it up. It’ll make things easier on us. :)
The last conversation I had with some of my pro-abort former grad school colleagues was in response to a rally they were having that was supposedly about “giving voice to the voiceless,” in reference to all the women being silenced by the pro-life movement (?!). When I tried to make the point, calmly, lovingly, that the only group that did not want to hear my voice and my experience (of being poor and working in an abortion mill and being very traumatized) was the pro-aborts, I was met with the usual non-answer, empty answer. All I can say is that we need to pray endlessly for their conversions, they are so blinded by the evil one that they are incapable of seeing the irony and the total disconnect between their words and their actions. I’m grateful for those people who were praying for me all those years ago (22, to be exact). You may never see the fruits of your prayers, as those people probably didn’t, but know that those little seeds can eventually take hold. Praise God!
Maybe it’s a good thing. Put post abortive women in touch with one another and they are bound to figure out that their lives are a mess and 40% of them have breast cancer. It may take them 10 years; I smell a lawsuit just over the horizon.
Carla, if an abortion is the best thing you’ve ever done, you’ve not accomplished much, have you?
I saved a man’s life by recognizing unusual symptoms of lithium toxicity and getting him the medical intervention he needed.
I saved a toddler’s life as an EMT, keeping the child’s airway open so my fellow EMT could “bag” him until we could get him to a hospital.
I helped raise money so that now a village in Sierra Leone has safe water to drink.
I’ve helped to fund nearly 40 microfinance loans through Kiva, to help entrepreneurs in developing countries to rise out of poverty.
I led the focus groups to develop a pilot program in mental health rehabilitation services delivery, and drafted the Policy & Procedures manual for a pilot program, that has become a model program in three states.
I intervened in an attempted purse snatching, running off the crook.
I could go on.
But the best you have to show for yourself is that you had your baby put to death by somebody else?
What a pathetic excuse for an accomplishment in life. Maybe if you got off your back you could do something that actually made a contribution to the world.
Christina-
Learn to recognize sarcasm when you see it. Look for context.
Maybe if you got off your high horse you could see Carla who has made a great contribution to the world. You don’t have to be an EHCP to make a contribution to the world. And apparently, you can accomplish a lot without having much compassion to show for it.
Their concept is blatantly stolen from the Priests for Life “Silent no More” campaign. Or are they trying to provoke a lawsuit for publicity?
Sabella, it’s gonna fall flat. Even the bulk of women who remain “procohice” after their abortions have enough sense to be at least somewhat ashamed or regretful. The “I pulverized a 20-gram embryo and that makes me somebody special!” are pretty rare. And even other prochoicers tend to find them repulsive.
pretty, I’m not a regular here, and sadly, it’s pretty difficult to tell the difference between sarcasm and “procohice” tought.
Sorry, carla! The message was meant for those who are serious when they say abortion is “the best thing I’ve ever done”.
It’s okay, Christina. Carla is amazing, just wanted to let you know that :)
Hey Christina,
You’re not the first one to have totally blown it in a blog – one of the hazards and limitations of keyboard communication.
Carla is one of the coolest chicks in the entire blogosphere. I really don’t have a feel for the exact number but I believe she has helped scores of women heal from the emotional trauma of abortion. In fact, after thinking about it, that estimate is absurdly low. This blog gets a lot of attention from post-abortive Moms and I know her insightful posts have touched many.
You’re cool Christina, most of us have misinterpreted/miscommunicated on this blog before.
Welcome!
Thanks to the internet, the pro-aborts don’t have a monopoly on the discussion of abortion. They can’t always frame the debate anymore.
They try hard to silence those with a pro-life view. They want the truth about abortion to be hidden from women, because if women knew the truth, they would choose not to have abortions. Horrors! ! !
This is why they don’t want women to see ultrasounds (80% of abortion minded women who see an ultrasound of their baby decide not to abort), or have 24 hour waiting periods (in which women have time to think without being badgered, and might decide not to return to the abortuary). They want to keep women away from facts that might encourage them to choose life. This shows how truly anti-choice they really are. There is only one choice that is really acceptable to them, and when women don’t choose it, the reaction of the pro-aborts is truly vicious.
They don’t believe in women’s rights. If a woman isn’t pregnant, or worse, if she is pregnant but intends to give birth, her rights aren’t worth anything to these pro-aborts. But abortion has to have special rights, otherwise they have a major hissy fit.
Already the number of abortions are declining and the pro-aborts are in a panic about it. They are losing in the realm of ideas and for the hearts and minds of the people. Time to claim Crisis Pregnancy Center mislead women and try to shut them down. Time to secretly fund anti-adoption groups on the internet, in hopes of eventually eliminating one more choice for women. Time to try to keep pro-life ads off the airwaves, especially during high viewing times, like the Super Bowl. If these ads are seen, more women might choose life, cutting into the abortion industries profits even more.
The unreasonableness of their reactions shows they are losing, slowly but surely. It also shows just what sore losers they really are.
Um, given that about 49% of women who have one abortion will go on to have at least one more, the “45 million” stat is off.
Start with the 52 million babies that had been aborted since Roe. That means that it’s closer to 35 million voices, but I doubt that the anti-life crowd wants anyone to figure out that a LOT of women are getting repeat abortions.
Hi,
I usually just read this blog and rarely post, but this thread has finally motivated me to go click the donate button on 40 Days for Life and Priests for Life. And I just remembered I was supposed to buy diapers for a local CPC, so that is tomorrow’s errand. Thanks for the reminder.
And the person who said the abortionists are losing the heart and soul of the country is right. When we were praying at 40 Days last fall, I had two women come up just to me and ask to sit and talk about the abortions they wish they hadn’t had. It was so sad, and they are not jubilant about it in person like PP wants people to believe. At the CPC, there were even people donating bags of *new* supplies that still had price tags on, and helping young girls with medical care, education, money, grants, etc.
We are not the cruel ones or the ones trying to stifle free speech. The abortion fans can keep that honor with my blessing. I think I will watch the number of responses on that disgusting site though. I actually had to take a few statistics classes in school, and it will be pretty obvious if they start only posting comments they like, because the raw numbers are out there. Back to lurking.
I am so, so sorry. I need to go back to quotation mark school or something. Let me try this again.
MY abortion was the most horrifying experience of my life!!
I went to the 45 million voices site and read some stories. They ended their stories with “abortion was the best thing I’ve ever done” or “I am so glad I had that choice” etc. etc. etc.
I immediately started my email to submit my story of abortion regret.
IF HONESTY PREVAILS like the bloggers have promised then I should be viewing my story there as well. We shall see.
Ed and Pip……my hugs to you. :)
I encourage all of the women I know who regret their abortions to submit their stories as well. After all, 45 Million Voices is a “safe space” to share.
jennifer@45millionvoices.org
or
kate@45millionvoices.org
“45 Million Voices is a nonprofit organization dedicated to eliminating the stigma, shame, and silence surrounding abortion through education, empowerment, and sisterhood.”
I think they mean through “denial”…women feel guilt and shame because they have taken the life of their child.
The good thing is they obviously feel the need to get more and more into this because women speaking out are causing them problems.
However, this is not going to work for them. Unlike the lies of abortion itself, those of us who have been there know the truth and the truth is the only thing to set you free.
I read the one where the abortion clinic staff wouldn’t allow a pregnant teen to see the ultrasound because it “wasn’t a good idea”. Really? I think they left off part of that sentence. It’s “not a good idea… for our bank account balance!”. Gee, that’s a shining example of INFORMING women of their CHOICES, and HONESTY and all that, right?
Oh, wait… the only “choice” is abortion. Got it.
And the girl’s mom is/was a hypocrite of the highest caliber. Gladly helped abort 2 of her own grandchildren and had the gall to be “happy” when her daughter grew up, married, and informed her of a third pregnancy? As if the first two children weren’t just as human, valuable, and just as much her grandchildren as the twins from the third pregnancy. Disgusting.
And for those that experienced complications in later pregnancies such as incompetent cervix… who thought it “might” be due to the abortion(s) they had… gee, do ya think so? It’s almost like PL folks have been saying this for a while already.
OK, I guess that’s my little soapbox moment for today. I have to go check on my newest little “collection of cells” shortly… he’s taking a rather long nap even for a 2-week-old. :-p
Yawn …. the more things change, the more they stay the same.
The pro-choice movement has tried this tactic several times already. The mother of all such sites (pun intended) is “I’m Not Sorry”:
http://www.imnotsorry.net/
Run by Patricia Beninato, INS has been collecting stories about how abortion is wonderful for many years now. Although INS is virulently pro-choice, I think the website is also excellent reading for pro-lifers. For a while (back when I was blogging), JivinJ used to fish out INS stories and comment on them.
See, here’s the thing about abortion stories: If they’re true, they tend not to reflect well on abortion. There is pain, desperation, and loss. Abortion is not an easy, feel-good procedure … not even for most pro-choicers. The vast majority of people recognize that abortion is not a good thing. That’s why the “safe, legal, and rare” mantra gets such traction. Even many pro-choicers want abortion to be rare!
Pro-lifers need to come back with the obvious question: Why? Why do so many of these stories show such pain? Why should abortion be rare? What’s wrong with abortion, anyway? If we can ask these questions in a gentle — yet persistent — way, we can eventually lead people into a true understanding of abortion’s horror.
Most pro-choice people are already unsettled about abortion. Their hearts know that it is wrong. All we need to do is employ logic until their minds come into agreement with what their hearts are already telling them….
I read a story on that website of a woman who had an IUD and still got pregnant. Even though she helped thousands of women get abortions as a nurse, she cried and cried herself to sleep when deciding to abort. Without explanation as to how she suddenly became proud of it, she doesn’t regret her abortion. I would have liked to know HOW!
My wife has a friend who has an IUD and didn’t know that it works by stopping implantation of an already conceived child! She has also been having two weeks of consistent bleeding.
When will people 1.) be told the truth about IUDs and 2.) stop taking unnecessary risks with their bodies and the lives of their children?
Ok, so I posted the following message at the Ramah International Page and the Silent No More Awarenes profile at Facebook:
But for whatever reason, SNMA deleted my post? I mean, what the heck!?
Sigh, whatever! Nobody can make you feel guilt unless you are guilty!!!!!! I don’t go around feeling guilty about doing the right thing in daily life!! Holding the door for a little old lady, stopping on the side of the road to help someone with car trouble, sending a plate of food to a hungry neighbor???? Nope. I don’t have that power. I can tell you that I do feel guilt from past mistakes! It’s on MY MIND!! Nobody has to MAKE those feelings come!! I’ve never had an abortion, but as a female, I have plenty of pals /aquaintances who have. Any time we ever talk abortion, it’s never been brought up by me. There is always a hint of guilt in a post abortive mother’s story! Why? Not because some prolifer has beat her into the ground about it. She has beaten herself into the ground over it. I am always there to listen and give support. I think that the PC lobby wants women to feel okay, yet these same women can’t deny the obvious! This is why they are afraid to talk about it.
Romans explains this phenomenon where women rationalize their sin against the light of their God-given conscience:
“The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse …Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. …Because of this, God gave them over ..he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 2They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are ..God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil..they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened”
What’s particularly troubling is that mothers who identify themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as “Born-again/Evangelical”.
” …you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” I John 3:15
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Isaiah 5:20
I have sent in my story of abortion regret twice now. No reply yet. Hmmm. I thought the girls were going to print “honest” abortion stories??
I went back and read some more stories. A woman so proud of her decision and actions stated so many truthful statements but ultimately ignores them in favor of her own desires:
“Not only would it be unfair to ourselves, to short change our entire lives because we fucked up, it would be unfair to the child.”
There it is. The woman knows that the person that she killed was her child. She said it herself. But because she didn’t want to be “unfair” to herself and to her boyfriend she had her own child annihilated.
” This is going to sound so hippy-dippy, but there I was, wearing my long folksy skirt, listening to the Roots and thinking, “holy shit I am pregnant.” And I loved it. I loved that feeling. I loved that baby.”
There it is again. She refers to the unborn person that was inside of her as a baby. She admits that the person inside of her was a unique human individual. She said that she even loved her baby. I suppose ending the life of your baby is a way to show your baby love? Very sickening.
“During the abortion, I cried silently and the doctor told the woman holding my hand to “keep her quiet.” WTF? The woman told me it would be ok, everything would be ok. And I knew it would be. She was right.”
Such kindness from the destroyer of human lives: the abortionist. The woman here knew that her unborn child’s life ended in that room. She felt a strong sensation of sadness over that unborn baby’s life. To this woman, however, her education and ability to buy a Mercedes meant more than the life of her own child.
“I do not regret my decision for one second. I don’t regret it and I am not ashamed of it, because I know I did the right thing. I know it like I know my name.”
The woman’s certainly doesn’t erase reality.
“I am happy to say that my boyfriend way back then is now my husband. We have a son, and he is the absolute star in my sky. He wants for nothing. He is the happiest child I have ever met in my life. He is loved and wanted.”
So if you had not killed your first then he would have been abused and hated by you and your partner? What kind of sick mind thinks this way!?!?
I hope that they publish your story, Carla. It appears that this website silences the stories from women who regret their abortions, though. So much for “45 Million Voices.” There is no doubt in my mind that there are less women who are proud of their abortions than there are of women who regret it.
I kinda wish that they would accept stories from fathers who had their children killed through abortion. When I was younger I went to protest with an organization and my parents at an abortion clinic. My mom got into a conversation with a man whose wife was getting an abortion. He didn’t want to have the abortion done but there was nothing he could do to stop it. He cried and cried over the death of his unborn child’s death…
It should have read: The woman’s certainty doesn’t erase reality.
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:8-9
This is the gospel for post-abortive women; this is the gospel for those who exploit women in crisis pregnancies and post-abortive women; this is the gospel for all of us, whatever our sins may be.
Thanks be to God for His mercy!
There is no malice behind an abortion. Women don’t choose to do it because they hate babies, they choose to do it because they do not want a child. You anti-choicers just think that a 2 week old fetus is comparable to a baby, and it’s not. It’s more comparable to a hair follicle.
That site is for women, not fetuses. Fetuses do not have voices, they haven’t developed in most cases. You realize that 88.2% of abortions are done in the first twelve weeks of pregnancy. Do you know what a 12 week old fetus looks like? It’s the size of a strawberry. A small strawberry.
Beside the fact remains. Abortions will continue to happen. There is nothing you can do. Until the day that they are illegal women will be safe. Did you know it’s more common for a woman to die during child birth than during an abortion?
When a womans right to terminate a pregnancy is taken away, then others soon will follow. I say take away welfare, I don’t want to have to pay for unwanted children.
Ran at 1:12PM,
“You anti-choicers just think that a 2 week old fetus is comparable to a baby, and it’s not.”
I was quoting a pro-choicer who referred to the unborn human being as a “baby” and “child.” That’s not me, some rabid anti-choicer, that’s someone who is proud of her abortion and remains extremely pro-choice.
“It’s more comparable to a hair follicle.”
Science doesn’t agree with you. Your statement is based merely on opinion.
“Do you know what a 12 week old fetus looks like?”
Looks like a human being! The following link is a picture of a 12-week fetus during a surgery to resolve ectopic pregnancy. http://img.medscape.com/pi/emed/ckb/obstetrics_gynecology/252558-258768-3582.jpg
“It’s the size of a strawberry.”
WTF is that supposed to mean? Are you saying that size is one determination of the value of a human being? I guess that means you would be fine with discrimination against midgets?
“Until the day that they are illegal women will be safe. Did you know it’s more common for a woman to die during child birth than during an abortion?”
False and false. There are so many people that die from legal abortions every year. Many times the people who die from abortions are not even reported as to have died from an abortion. Abortion death statistics were criminal cases prior to legalization and were thus scrutinized to a much higher degree. The statistics used in regards to the deaths from illegal abortions fed to the pro-choice lobby and to the media were blatantly false. Refer to the following link: http://realchoice.0catch.com/library/century/aahxpt2prn.htm
Regarding the death rate from abortion being lower than from full-term pregnancy: deaths from abortion are included in the pregnancy mortality rate. This means that abortion mortality is alone while pregnancy mortality encompasses pregnancy altogether. Furthermore, pregnancy mortality accounts for many non-pregnancy related deaths within one year following birth while abortion related deaths account only for immediate outcomes. One cannot compare these two stats side by side. The end result is that the stats do not show which one is more dangerous (abortion or full-term pregnancy). This shows that you statement is extremely misleading and therefore false.
“When a womans right to terminate a pregnancy is taken away, then others soon will follow. I say take away welfare, I don’t want to have to pay for unwanted children.”
Hilarious! The pro-life cause is to protect the lives of human beings. These two topics are completely unrelated. Since you fail to understand that I have serious doubts regarding your grasp of logic.
I could argue for hours, but I don’t have the time. Bad things happen everyday, get over it. You people let your religious beliefs cloud your judgment of the real world. Living sentient children die everyday, and you don’t rally those causes. You’re too busy crying over non functioning cell masses, that can’t feel pain, can’t think can’t breathe and can not speak. Stop thinking of what could have been and focus on what is.
How are unwanted children and welfare not related? If you force a woman who can not afford a child to have one, you’re going to have to pay for it. (i.e. welfare.)Welfare also protects the lives of human beings. Humans can not live without food and they can not live exposed to the elements. Welfare provides these amenities for people. They are very relative to one another. Most women on welfare are on it because they got pregnant and could not support themselves or their babies.
As I said before fetuses can not think, they can not feel pain until 21 weeks, they can not talk, they can not breathe. They are alive, yes, but they are not sentient. So stop whining. You’ll never change anything.
I applaud the idea behind “45 million”. The **stigma** attached to abortion nearly killed me when I was a teen.
God the Creator endowed women with power over their fetuses. Politics, religion, scripture, laws and all the arguing around abortion cannot change the basic fact that women have that power. I think the laws should allow for this fact and not try to wish it away.
Ran at 2:59,
So you’re running away (pun intended)?
“Bad things happen everyday, get over it.”
We are over it. However, we would like to minimize the killing of our fellow human beings. Your use of such a statement with such a topic only means that the same statement could be used for murder. I mean, “bad things happen everyday” so we need to “get over it” and just legalize it just like abortion. Bad stuff happens no matter what, right? Thus it makes it perfectly okay to legalize murder because it happens anyways, no?
“You’re too busy crying over non functioning cell masses, …”
A newly formed human organism is a fully functioning human individual at that particular stage of development. This is scientific fact.
“… that can’t feel pain, …”
The first point is that scientists and doctors have gained evidence that a pain response starts at approximately 6 weeks gestation while pain perception starts at around 20-26 weeks gestation. The second point is that whether or not someone feels pain cannot and should not be a value judgement on fellow human beings. Those who are placed into general anesthesia during surgery do not feel pain yet they are still human beings with a right to life. There is also the rare condition of a person who cannot feel pain altogether; for this person we would not consider the inability to experience pain a reason to kill him or her.
“… can’t think …”
I suppose we could argue that many pro-choicers can’t think. This is a value judgement, once again. Brain waves have been detected very early in gestation but our understanding of “thinking” is nothing but opinion. I repeat, our understanding of “thinking” is nothing other than opinion (and is not considered factual).
“… can’t breathe …”
For your reading pleasure: “The diaphragm muscle is completely formed by eight weeks and intermittent breathing motions begin.” This fact found through the Endowment for Human Development.
“… and can not speak …”
The unborn child in my wife’s womb has been communicating with her from very early in pregnancy (almost immediately upon implantation). She could tell that she was pregnant due to the communication of hormones. She could also feel the communication of movement early in the second trimester of pregnancy, too. I am now experiencing this communication when I feel the fetus move around inside of her womb. I even poke the fetus and can oftentimes illicit a response. These are many different forms of communication.
If you are just talking about “speaking” as in a spoken language, then not even neonates can do that.
“Stop thinking of what could have been and focus on what is.”
That’s exactly what we’re doing. We’re thinking of the already existing human being. It is you that choose to ignore what really is.
“How are unwanted children and welfare not related?”
Killing an unborn child is leagues different than welfare. It would be the same as comparing child abuse to welfare. A more perfect analogy would be comparing the murders of born children to welfare. Do you want to argue that increasing welfare recipients will decrease the number of murders? I doubt it.
“…they are not sentient.”
Science is the arbiter in this debate. Sentience is philosophy. Philosophy is not science. Furthermore, philosophy is the same thing as a personal opinion. Personal opinions have no place in a debate regarding the unborn. Science has proven time after time that a new individual human organism’s life starts at conception (we are all human organisms). That is all the proof that we need. The reason is because that scientific fact is completely free of any subjective philosophy or opinion. Science is objective fact.
Facts are what matter, Ran. Got that? The facts are what really matter. Sadly, not only do you not side with the facts, you also do not possess the gift of logic.
Jeff at 3:14PM,
“God the Creator endowed women with power over their fetuses.”
I suppose that also means that women have been granted the same power over their born children? Please elaborate.
Ran, I feel so sad for you. I used to at least lean toward and could understand some of your ways of thinking–but once I finally came to understand the science of conception and the reality of life in the womb, AND the awesomeness of that science and reality, it was like coming out of a deep, dark cave into a bright and beautiful world I wished I’d recognized and understood a long, long time ago. I often didn’t feel wanted as a child and was abused, but I am SO grateful for my life! What human beings who are humble and loving can accomplish is amazing and even “miraculous.” It’s because we settle for less than we’re capable of that we cause others, and ourselves, to suffer and miss out on what life was meant to and could be if we embraced reality humbly and responsibly instead of reducing it to something shallow, superficial, and self-centered.
You’re male? Why am I even having this argument with you. lol.
Men will never have a say in the reproductive matters of women, so you’re input is useless.
Fetuses don’t draw air in their own lungs until their born. The “practice” breathing, but they are not breathing.
I was correct when I said fetuses can not speak. The can not verbally communicate. I never said they could not communicate, I said they could not speak.Big difference. Animals can not speak, and do they get the same rights as humans? No.
All i said was fetuses can not feel pain. Which they can not to a certain point. Reflexes are not pain. Saying a fetus “shies away from an abortionists tools because it feels pain” is against scientific fact. It is merely a reflex. Reflexes are very very simple.
During the early stages the fetus is called a blastocyst, and as the name implies, it is a clump of cells, just like skin cells, brain cells and any other cell in the body.
You don’t rally against real murder, now do you? This issue should not be at the top of every religious persons agenda. God had his armies kill thousands of pregnant women and their fetuses. He also killed all of the first born children of Egypt. What makes you think god cares? Support a better cause, like anti-child abuse/neglect.
“I suppose that also means that women have been granted the same power over their born children? Please elaborate.”
No. An individual who has a fetus (“unborn baby” for the pro-lifers) inside her body has power over that fetus. Of course that changes after birth.
“Men will never have a say in the reproductive matters of women, so you’re input is useless.”
That’s my point. Individual women have ALL the say in the individual fetus inside their body. Whether its granted by a higher power or just is a natural fact.
Incidentally, the collective “Women” don’t have ultimate control over the fetus either. The individual woman involved does.
I think that point is lost lost when it primary and central to abortion rights.
Ran at 8:10PM,
“Men will never have a say in the reproductive matters of women, so you’re input is useless.”
My ball-sack has nothing to do with this argument. If you have such a hatred towards men then go tell pregnant women to kill their sons and allow their daughters to live. This is a human rights issue, not a feminist issue. If you had half a brain you would realize that.
“Fetuses don’t draw air in their own lungs until their born. They “practice” breathing, but they are not breathing.”
And the ability to breathe matters because… why? There are numerous people on ventilators that cannot breathe on their own. Should we kill those who are on ventilators because they cannot breathe? Consider that a fetus at 36 weeks gestation does not breathe but a preemie at 30 weeks gestation does breathe. Why is it then that the more developed human being does not deserve the right to life but the less developed one does?
“I was correct when I said fetuses can not speak. They cannot verbally communicate.”
Okay, let’s enact a law that allows the killing of mutes. Or maybe we can enact a law that allows mothers to kill their newborn babies if he/she/they don’t cry within a certain amount of time? Verbal communication (let alone communication at all) does not matter in deciding for or against preserving life. This is a value judgement and is entirely subjective.
“…[the blastocyst] is a clump of cells, just like skin cells, brain cells and any other cell in the body.”
Look in the mirror and you will see a clump of cells. You lack of scientific understanding is amazing.
“You don’t rally against real murder, now do you?”
I certainly would if murder were legal, not prevented by law enforcement, and/or was rampant in society. However, abortion IS legal, is NOT prevented by law enforcement, and IS rampant in society. See the difference?
Get your head on straight. If you really want to argue, then tell me why science doesn’t matter. If you really want to argue, then tell me why we should base our entire belief system on subjective opinions. I base my belief regarding abortion on two things: objective science and human decency disallowing the killing of human beings. What do you base your belief regarding abortion on?
Jeff at 9:07PM,
“No. An individual who has a fetus (“unborn baby” for the pro-lifers) inside her body has power over that fetus. Of course that changes after birth.”
That’s not an argument. You didn’t explain to me why you believe that.
The rest of your post is a regurgitation of the same things you have stated before.
Carla wrote:
I have sent in my story of abortion regret twice now. No reply yet. Hmmm. I thought the girls were going to print “honest” abortion stories??
I have periodically checked the website for updates and to see if new stories, including yours, have been added, but nothing since last week. On their Facebook page, they posted this yesterday, “Women’s voices are powerful. Add your voice. Do not let you voice be eclipsed by those who try to shame you.” Hmm, I wonder if this is in response to women, such as yourself, sending in their stories of feeling sadness, loss, or reget after their abortions. It seems to me that many pro-choice post-abortive women perceive these women immediately as political opponants (even if they don’t identify as prolife or participate in political activism), or otherwise as threats to their wellbeing or comfort with their abortion decision, which I don’t understand because every woman’s abortion experience and reaction afterwords is different and these women deserve to have a voice for their feelings and experience too, even if they make you uncomfortable. It seems to me that it’s the pro-choice side who stigmatizes and discourages these other women, who have experienced differently from what is perceived as the “norm”, from speaking about their feelings and experiences.
Carla wrote:
I have sent in my story of abortion regret twice now. No reply yet. Hmmm. I thought the girls were going to print “honest” abortion stories??
I have periodically checked the website for updates and to see if new stories, including yours, have been added, but nothing since last week. On their Facebook page, they posted this yesterday, “Women’s voices are powerful. Add your voice. Do not let you voice be eclipsed by those who try to shame you.” Hmm, I wonder if this is in response to women, such as yourself, sending in their stories of feeling sadness, loss, or reget after their abortions. It seems to me that many pro-choice post-abortive women perceive these women immediately as political opponants (even if they don’t identify as prolife or participate in political activism), or otherwise as threats to their wellbeing or comfort with their abortion decision, which I don’t understand because every woman’s abortion experience and reaction afterwords is different and these women deserve to have a voice for their feelings and experience too, even if they make you uncomfortable. It seems to me that it’s the pro-choice side who stigmatizes and discourages these women, who have experienced differently from what is perceived as the “norm”, from speaking about their feelings and experiences.
*Clearification
“…because every woman’s abortion experience and reaction afterwords is different and these women deserve to have a voice for their feelings and experience too, even if they make you uncomfortable” and by “you” I mean pro-choice individuals.
Another angle to look at it from is that many pro-choice post-abortive women seem to perceive these women voicing their negative feelings and experiences associated with their abortion as threats to their wellbeing and trying to stigmatize or silence them, when in reality, these women are just looking to have a voice and for validation for their experience and feelings too.
Carla,
I’ve posted the following question to the 45 Million Voices page on Facebook:
“The experiences and feelings of women are diverse and women may feel a wide range of emotions. While feelings of relief are normal, so are feelings of sadness, loss, or grief and everything imbetween are normal too, and all women’s voices and experiences should be honored. So why haven’t we heard a broader range of experiences and voices?”
Rachael C.,
I hope that they will be forthcoming. However, I sincerely doubt that they will.