Post-abortion outreach ads in NYC subways invoke vitriolic response
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They hadn’t even seen them yet but hated them. From Metro.us, March 8, with the objective headline, “Don’t look now: You may not like the ads you see”…
Starting this week, the NYC subway system will be flooded with a massive ad campaign that addresses a touchy subject: abortion.
The 2k ads, which straphangers will see in nearly every subway station beginning tomorrow, depict either a woman saying, “I thought life would be the way it was before,” or a man saying, “I often wonder if there was something I could have done to help her.”
The ads haven’t been unveiled yet, but they’re already stirring up controversy, particularly from pro-choice organizations.
“The campaign suggests that feelings of sadness and self-harm are the universal experiences for someone who had an abortion,” said Samantha Levine of NARAL Pro-Choice NY. “And there’s no evidence to suggest that that’s true.“…
Levine, like so many other liberal feminist pro-aborts, is committing a patriarchal, exploitive mind game here by disallowing post-abortive mothers their feelings if negative. Thankfully more rational liberal feminists are at least acknowledging the possibility. Continuing the piece:
“The organization behind these ads has an agenda,” continued Levine. “They aren’t seeking to help women – they’re seeking to get abortion banned.”
But Michaelene Fredenburg, who started San Diego-based Abortion Changes You after her own abortion, says her ads are more about helping people than politics.
“I had an abortion when I was 18,” said Fredenburg, 44. “I had a hard time…. I wanted to reach out and say you’re not alone.”
Loved this intro, by Fran Johns at TrueSlant.com:
As if the GA anti-choice campaign linking abortion rights to Black genocide or the Polish campaign linking abortion to Hitler weren’t enough, now we have a soft sell campaign complete with well-dressed women ostensibly traumatized by a past abortion and downcast men who yearn to be good fathers….
But Fran’s vision is slanted:
I have no reason, other than it seems a great way to sell stuff and make a few bucks, to question Fredenburg’s altruistic intentions in founding Abortion Changes You….
Why isn’t True Slant questioning the fact abortion profiteers make their living from peddling abortion?
kirbygirl87 sends mixed messages in her protest at amplifyyourvoice.org:
Not every women is depressed and regrets her decisions. Not every boyfriend or husband wants to interfere with the women’s decision. What if the women felt she made the right decision, and what if the partner supported the decision? Why do ads like these always depict the women as sad and questioning her judgement [sic], do women do that often? Do we change our minds? Do we regret the decisions that we make? Not often.
Which is it, “not every,” equivalent to “almost every,” or “not often”?
Tracy Clark-Flory at Salon.com is a little more reasonable:
Here’s the thing: I think we should acknowledge that abortion can change you, that it isn’t necessarily an “eh, whatevs” event. For some women, it may be akin to getting a tooth pulled; for others, though, it results in a profound and haunting loss. None of this goes against the dominant pro-choice message, which is that women should be allowed to make their own reproductive choices based on what they feel is right for them. Women have different experiences of abortion and they should be allowed to make different decisions, too.
That isn’t to say I’m super pumped about the ads, though. They present one side of the story, which is that abortion changes you, period. Not that abortion can change a woman, but that it always does, and that is quite simply a lie. It isn’t the sort of message born of concern for women, but rather a concern for converting women. Also, you know what is guaranteed to change you and your life in a profound way? Motherhood. But I don’t recall seeing any subways ads featuring a woman knee-deep in dirty diapers with the text, “I thought life would be the way it was before.”
But here’s the thing, Tracy. No one in the world maintains life won’t change after having a baby. But hardcore pro-aborts do indeed try to say life won’t change after abortion. Refer back to Levine’s quote above.
Read the press release here. Abortion Changes You ran this ad campaign in NYC in 2008. They tell me this campaign will run through the 1st week of April.
NYC is the perfect place, since at least 10% of all US abortions, 100k, emanate from NYC annually.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I think this is great. I love the ads, they are so simple, yet get the point across. I think it’s an amazing idea!
Pro-Lifers in Fitchburg, Massachusetts believe that a City Councilor needs to apologize. Even if the local newspaper doesn’t.
http://lasalettejourney.blogspot.com/2010/03/we-expect-more-from-our-elected.html
If the ‘borts don’t like the ads, why not put up their own?
Prolife ads ran here in Philly without much protest.
Another reason to dislike NYC!
“”The campaign suggests that feelings of sadness and self-harm are the universal experiences for someone who had an abortion,” said Samantha Levine of NARAL Pro-Choice NY. “And there’s no evidence to suggest that that’s true.”…”
I guess a deadened conscience is the greatest harm of all. So that brings the post-abortive victim tally to 100% .
Fantastic campaign!!
I recall seeing this a few years ago and being very impressed.
Does anyone else join me in thinking that the perfect storm
is forming for legally protecting innocent life?
Georgia ad campaign, this one, Personhood . . .
I don’t understand the problem with these- I do agree that not every single woman will regret abortion- I don’t know what the percentage is, but frankly, you can’t assume that everyone is depressed after an abortion. Some people go back to work in the office and some people, like Carla, decide to go out and work for human rights afterwards.
But to fight an ad like this is stupid. If a woman does regret her abortion, then she absolutely has a right to know that she’s not alone, and, let’s be honest, even if you are pro-choice and say, “Yes, women do sometimes/often regret their abortions,” very few pro-choice advocates want to acknowledge that there is a downside to abortion. Most don’t comfort her when she hears crying at night or when she has nightmares.
And saying, “It’s wrong to tell women that abortion changes things! That’s hurtful and confusing to women who have had abortions!” is misogynistic. Women aren’t stupid- we don’t look at a billboard like this and say, “Really?” We either agree with it, disagree with it, or ignore it altogether. We don’t get confused then disolve into a puddle on the floor, sobbing because we’re too emotional to handle it. Women aren’t as weak as people assume when it’s politically advantageous- it drives me nuts.
We can handle billboards just fine, thanks.
But hardcore pro-aborts do indeed try to say life won’t change after abortion.
Incorrect. Most patients feel relief after an abortion. Some feel guilt or regret. Some patients even ask for the fetus after it goes through pathology, so they can cremate or bury it.
But no one on my side preaches that life won’t change at all after a termination. In fact, we say nothing about the aftermath, aside from the physical effects. Remember, abortion providers are physicians, not psychologists. Just as a dentist wouldn’t speculate about the psychological trauma of a root canal, we don’t say anything about how a patient might feel emotionally after an abortion.
But we can report, with accuracy, that the most popular emotional reaction is relief. We see it in the flowers and letters patients send doctors. We see it in their own words, how a frightening day in which they had to skip work, they got through with the care and compassion of provider.
And this ‘Abortion Changes You” campaign was seen in NYC subways about two years ago. I remember me and my friends snickering at them, because the campaign asserts that ending a pregnancy always causes a negative emotional consequence.
Also, a real man DOES support his girl in obtaining a termination, IF that is her decision.
And I love Philly. But man, driving west or north of that town and seeing billboards with fetuses on them certainly declares what is ‘enemy territory’ for a pro-abort like me.
Poland, Tebow, NYC, Georgia, Lila Rose…
Pro-aborts have their hands full these days putting out fires. I, for one, feel some momentum growing.
“But Fran’s vision is slanted:”
“I have no reason, other than it seems a great way to sell stuff and make a few bucks, to question Fredenburg’s altruistic intentions in founding Abortion Changes You….”
It certainly is slanted! As if Fredenburg were opening a kiosk at the mall to sell Tupperware or something. Way to go Michaelene!!
This isn’t exactly related, but I wanted to ask you folks to pray for my family. My parents went into the hospital late last night because their baby hadn’t been moving. The ultrasound showed no heartbeat, and my mom is currently being induced. She was due on the 30th of this month, and my whole family is in pain over the loss of this baby. He or she was my ninth sibling. They’ve chosen the name Constance Marie for a girl or Quinn Joseph for a boy. I can’t imagine the grief my parents are experiencing, and I’m praying for a labor as painless as possible, and for Christ’s healing.
Please keep our family in your prayers. We were all looking forward to welcoming this baby into our lives, and are all in complete shock.
LOVE IT!! Wish there was a phone number or web address for help.
Yes. We all experienced relief, Dhalgren. Yep. Doesn’t last though.
“we don’t say anything about how a patient might feel emotionally after abortion.”
Of course not, that is why WE are telling you!! Post abortive women and men are telling you over and over and over again how it has affected our lives but you are not listening. Keep snickering though at the very real horror that has been experienced in abortion.
Her “decision” might be different if he manned up and told her he wanted his child to live!!!
So…you’re an abortionist?
MaryRose,
I’m so sorry.
Dear Lord, please save little Constance/Quinn and bring comfort to all in such a difficult time. God bless.
MaryRose,
I am so, so very sorry. I will be praying for you and your family.
Dhalgren,
“But we can report, with accuracy, that the most popular emotional reaction is relief. We see it in the flowers and letters patients send doctors. We see it in their own words, how a frightening day in which they had to skip work, they got through with the care and compassion of provider.”
This is such a short-sighted response. These women have done the unconscionable – they take a deep breath and sigh because they have nothing left inside (literally and figuratively) and you call this “relief” ? Do you follow their lives for the next 30 years? Do you go with them when they visit their ministers and psychologists for counseling? Do you talk to their children who know they are missing a brother or sister they will never be able to grow up with?
Oh, you’re so right. Women who express relief and take the time to write a thank you card are so totally faking it! They just do it to make the evil doctors fell better about themselves.
The doctors made the women feel better. Not all of them, but most. It’s called compassionate care.
I’m so sorry MaryRose- I can only imagine the grief that your family is going through right now. :(
This is sort of odd to say over a blog’s comment sections, but everyone is here for you.
Dhalgren,
A healthy baby is nothing short of a blessing. Any woman who feels relief after an abortion is merely feeling the momentary relaxing of societal expectations. This experience generally passes, leaving her empty and alone.
I have yet to meet a post-abortive woman who still felt relief and didn’t co-mingle said feelings with hatred or fear of a particular group or person who she associated with the anti-abortion movement.
Abortion is, quite simply, the triumph of fear and insecurity over goodness. It is never, ever, ever, a choice made out of a secure and stable mindset. It is absolutely always a choice made out of fear: of the baby, of losing a relationship, of inadequate parenting, of poverty, you name it.
If you would have your life led by fear, I am very sorry for you.
Janet, Carla,
Thank you.
Words cannot describe.
Thank you, Vannah.
Carla,
I met with the Abortion Changes You billboard campaign last year and offered our http://www.abortionrecovery.org website as a huge database to offer help.
“Just as a dentist wouldn’t speculate about the psychological trauma of a root canal, we don’t say anything about how a patient might feel emotionally after an abortion.”
Dhalgren,
A dentist most certainly does. A dentist and an abortionist are not even in the same league. A dentist actually know his patient by name, and probably the patient’s children’s names as well. A dentist asks the patient what kind of anesthesia they prefer. A dentist’s office will call the following day to see how the patient is feeling after surgery. A dentist will require follow-up appointments, just to make sure all is well. An abortionist makes a one hour commitment to each woman who comes into their operating room. Why should he care about her mental health? The money is in the cash register and that’s the bottom line until the woman comes back for another.
“The doctors made the women feel better. Not all of them, but most. It’s called compassionate care.”
Posted by: Dhalgren at March 12, 2010 1:50 PM
You may be missing that there is a difference between doing something out of compassion and doing something out of the feeling of compassion. The feeling of compassion is sympathy. Acting on a feeling does not produce good results. Doing something out of love is true compassion and is always good.
Correction. (I shouldn’t be typing so quickly…)
“Acting on a feeling does not always produce good results.”
Oh MaryRose…….I can’t imagine the pain you and your family are going through right now! *hugs*
May Jesus comfort your family in their grief. :(
Posted by: Janet at March 12, 2010 2:02 PM
From personal experience, yeah, dentists do do all that. My sister had her wisdom teeth taken out last year. Her dentist warned her, in advance, about both the physical effects of the surgery and the physical and psychological effects of the drugs he’d be giving her to knock out the worst of her pain. She was absolutely exhausted and looked a bit like death warmed over when she came home, but was expecting this, since her doctor warned her that’s how she’d feel. The next day, around noon, her doctor called, to ask how she was doing.
Yes, dentists take better care of their patients than abortionists do. Dentists hesitate to pull teeth more than abortionists hesitate to kill children. Basically, dentists care more. A lot more. About teeth.
Thank you, Liz.
Thanks to everyone!
Can’t stop thinking of you and your family, MaryRose. I really wish I had the words to convey my sorrow. :( Hugs to you.
Carla,
Honestly, what I’m feeling is nothing in comparison to what my parents are experiencing. I can’t imagine having to go through labor and then have a dead baby. What a horror…
It really makes me think about the poor souls who believe the lies that led them to such butchers as Tiller and Carhart. Laboring into a toilet… What a terrible terrible experience that must be! …How can it be legal???
Will you get to see your brother or sister? The families I know that spent that time together felt very blessed. In fact I have seen the pictures, the foot prints made, the blankets and little hat.
In fact, we say nothing about the aftermath, aside from the physical effects. Remember, abortion providers are physicians, not psychologists. Just as a dentist wouldn’t speculate about the psychological trauma of a root canal, we don’t say anything about how a patient might feel emotionally after an abortion.
Posted by: Dhalgren at March 12, 2010 1:26 PM
—-
You’re completely ignoring why there might be emotional pain, and the human being that’s being killed.
Very few people feel emotional pain by parting with a pulled tooth. Because a pulled tooth doesn’t look like this:
You are correct about one thing though. The abortion-choice side is completely silent about the real impact of the procedure.
I am so very sorry,MaryRose, for what your parents are going through. Saying a prayer for you all right now, hon’.
Chris–That might not have been the most tactful thing to post given Mary Rose’s horrible situation right now. I realize you were posting to a parallel conversation, but in my opinion the image should be taken down out of sympathy for Mary Rose. She is coming here for prayers and comfort, and doesn’t need to see that as she scrolls through comments meant for her.
“”The campaign suggests that feelings of sadness and self-harm are the universal experiences for someone who had an abortion,” said Samantha Levine of NARAL Pro-Choice NY. “And there’s no evidence to suggest that that’s true.”…”
All the ad says is “Abortion changes you.” If the “prochoice” side is correct, then the campaign slogan would still be accurate. Abortion empowers you, helps you mature and clarify your goals, strengthens your relationships, makes you a better mother, clears up your complexion, and improves your bowling scores. What’s not to like?
The fact that they’re taking umbrage is that they KNOW that the changes are negative.
And saying, “It’s wrong to tell women that abortion changes things! That’s hurtful and confusing to women who have had abortions!” is misogynistic.
Imagine if PETA put up billboards showing sad people, saying “Meat changes you.” Nobody would give two farts in a bucket. Because people who eat meat REALLY ARE OKAY WITH IT. And if women REALLY ARE OKAY with their abortions, they’ll blow off the ads, the way a steak lover would blow off a PETA ad.
The fact that they’re so sensitive about it means they KNOW there is a huge, unacknowledged pool of grief, regret, and shame that tis will bring to the surface. And they can’t afford to let that happen.
Also, a real man DOES support his girl in obtaining a termination, IF that is her decision.
“His girl”. His WHAT? If he’s a real man, he ought not to be banging a GIRL in the first place. If he’s a real man, he damned well better be having sex with a grown woman.
Second of all, any MAN that is okay with his child being pulled apart in little pieces just because the woman wants to do it … well, he’s NOT a man. He supported having a child put to death, a child he helped to create. He’s worse than a deadbeat dad, who at least allows his children to live, even if he takes no responsibility for them.
REAL MEN protect the vulnerable. They don’t pony up the dough to have them pureed so he can get more child-free sex.
Christina:
Thanks for bringing up the topic of “REAL MEN”. I agree. This is something my wife and I as pro-lifers praying and counseling outside our local PP wonder about. What kind of man sits shotgun while their sig others drive in to abort their child? No real man of course, because a real man wouldn’t drive there in the first place. The whimpification of men in our society is on full display at abortion clinics.
We have no way of proving it, but it seems a disproportionate percentage of these pro-abort guys are just “along for the ride” both figuratively and literally. And of course we do know that most relationships do not survive the abortion.
Our friend Dahlgren says women experience relief–that may be so in some instances. If a pregnancy is seen as an unwelcome “event” (usually more by the man than the woman–but not always) then a kind of “relief” is probably the case. But when things start going wrong in the relationship that sense of relief is probably replaced by a sense of abandonment when the father of the dead child moves on. Thousands of women, perhaps millions, find the “relief” to be replaced by “regret”.
Oh, and by the way, Dahlgren, many men also come to eventually regret the abortion that they wanted their sig other to have. They also might have wanted to be relieved of the situation they found themselves in only to find later that it was the biggest mistake they ever made.
Thank you Pamela. Carla, only in photos. She’s a little girl. I will have photos of her in the next day. I wish I could hold her and say goodbye, but I know that this is far more surreal for me than it is for anyone else in my family, and I am grateful that my parents and siblings are able to say goodbye. Anon, my grief is real, but so is that little baby that Chris posted, and while it hurts terribly to see, I know that it’s worse to hide the truth.
Again, Jill, just so much meaty stuff I had to blog a response.
Oh, the cause of death was placenta abruptio.
MaryRose,
I’m so sorry for your loss..
MaryRose, I am so sorry for you and your family! I’ll offer up a mercy chaplet this evening for you, your family, and the little one you will know and love forever when you’re reunited on the other side of eternity. God bless.
Gerard points out something I think is true as well. When you get strident activists effectively screaming at you that abortion hasn’t done anything to them, you just wonder if they know the meaning of the word irony.
In fact, it’s those very same people who I would consider likely to be the most changed and twisted-up after their abortions. Being sad after the death of your child actually seems like a psychologically healthy reaction to me – unlike using it as a foundation to belligerently argue for some dark caricature of women’s rights – but hey, I’m no expert.
Btw, in Dhalgren’s universe “compassionate care” = killing the unborn. Can anything be more upside down???
“Just as a dentist wouldn’t speculate about the psychological trauma of a root canal, we don’t say anything about how a patient might feel emotionally after an abortion.”
Really, Dhalgren?
“Every woman…has a trauma at destroying a pregnancy (because) she is destroying herself. There is no way it can be innocuous.”
-Dr Julius Fogel, a psychiatrist and obstetrician who has personally performed over 20 000 abortions.
Praying for you and your family, MaryRose. I’m so sorry to hear that!
So sorry MaryRose. I will pray for your family also. Is your mother alright? Placental abruptions can cause problems for the mother as well. Make sure she takes it easy and doesn’t over extend herself. God comfort your family.
MaryRose…HUGS HUGS HUGS. I am going to pray so hard for your family tonight and for you!
This very thing happened to my friends years ago. In the fifth month of pregnancy they lost their third child Steven. I was pregnant at the time and could not stop thinking about this couple. The cord apparently had wrapped around the child’s neck. Sudden, shocking, devastating. I cannot even bring myself to imagine the horror and sadness! I pray someone’s life is touched by this and that this tragedy will speak to the incredible preciousness of each and every human life.
“Pro-aborts have their hands full these days putting out fires. I, for one, feel some momentum growing.”
You should have seen what they wrote about Billy Graham recently in their site, RH Reality. It was hundred times more over the top than anything they said about Tebow.
Many many thanks to everyone for your kind words and prayers. My mother is doing okay at this time. There were no complications with the laboring process itself and she is expecting to go home tomorrow morning. I have told her repeatedly to take care of herself and have berated my siblings on their duties, but I am limited by distance :( … My parents have spoken with a number of religious persons and are feeling more at peace with the situation, although not good, I’m sure. The funeral will be Wednesday, so if you think of us on Wednesday, please offer up a prayer.
Again, thank you all. I really cannot say how much your kind responses mean to me!
MaryRose:
“We were all looking forward to welcoming this baby into our lives, and are all in complete shock.”
It sounds to me, MaryRose, like this baby has been very much a part of your lives for the past 8 1/2 months. I’m sure that everyone marveled at this child and spoke to him/her, etc.
I’m sorry for so profound a loss to your family. From your posts, it’s evident that you are a very kind and thoughtful daughter, the kind I would be proud to have my two girls grow up to be. I have no doubt that your love will be a source of great strength for your mother.
Doubtless your dad will be the rock for mom and the family. Be extra sensitive to him in the coming weeks and months. Men tend to swallow their pain, and it usually leaks out sideways in seemingly unrelated areas.
I’ll have some of my priest-buddies offer their Masses in the coming days for your family. We’ll say our family rosary on Wednesday for your family’s intentions. Got it on the calender.
God Bless.
Dhalgren said, “A real man DOES support his girl in obtaining a termination.”
Real men and abortions don’t often meet. A real man has a wife, not a temporary sexual partner.
Also, a real man faces reality. He doesn’t consent to kill his real child.
So with Christina and Jerry, I urge Dhalgren to get real.
Posted by: MaryRose at March 12, 2010 5:58 PM
——-
MaryRose – I am so sorry to hear of your family’s loss. Lifting up your mother and your family in prayer to our God who loves us and wants every one of us more than we can imagine, through Christ who conquered death once, and for all.
Thank you for being so gracious – I felt compelled to answer Dhalgren immediately, so I never made it down to read your comment. I definitely would not have posted the photo had I seen it. Then something came up and I did not finish reading the thread until now.
God moves in ways we do not immediately understand.
“Not that abortion can change a woman, but that it always does, and that is quite simply a lie.”
Abortion changes every single person it touches, in one way or another. Forced death comes from Satan, abortion’s prince, and while one might not feel they are buying into his “package of pain,” that doesn’t mean they are unaffected …
These ads are outstanding!! … keep the ball rolling 4 Life …
Mary Rose, may God be a comfort to your family.
Posted by: Dhalgren at March 12, 2010 1:26 PM
1. “Most patients feel relief after an abortion. Some feel guilt or regret.”
2. “Remember, abortion providers are physicians, not psychologists. Just as a dentist wouldn’t speculate about the psychological trauma of a root canal, we don’t say anything about how a patient might feel emotionally after an abortion.”
—————————————————-
Dhally
1. I feel relief after a bowel movement, but never guilt or remorse.
I did save my wisdom teeth when they were extracted. I put them in my aquarium. Great conversation pieces.
2. I have never heard of any of study that associates emotional or psychological problems with having a tooth extracted or an appendix removed.
I am sure if there were any such evidence dentists and surgeons would practice due diligence and fully inform their patients before the patient consented to the procedure.
Dhally,
You live in a fantasy world self-constructed for your own emotional appeasement.
yor bro ken
Oh Mary, I’m so sorry. I’ll be praying for your family.
. I have never heard of any of study that associates emotional or psychological problems with having a tooth extracted or an appendix removed
Actually, any surgery can result in PTSD. I was warned of this when I had my wisdom teeth removed. The doctor just said “though the surgery itself is relatively simple, the recovery is often difficult and this can sometimes manifest in PTSD for a very small subset of patients.”
Thanking God for REAL men today! That stand for life, that stand beside a woman, that save the lives of their unborn children!! Also, thanking God for my husband who has walked with me through almost 20 years of abortion recovery. You are heroes to me.
My condolences and support, MaryRose.
Gerard, Thank you. You’re right and perhaps I should have clarified that we were all looking forward to meeting our little sister in person. You’re absolutely spot-on about my dad, and he has me especially concerned, partially because he just really really loves babies (when my mom was still struggling with the idea of another child, my dad was joyfully spreading the news around at work and with friends and family).
Chris, I knew you meant no harm by your post (you’ve been a very thoughtful and kind poster in the year and a half that I’ve been reading/posting on Jill’s blog) and I figured you simply hadn’t gotten around to reading mine. That said, my parents were not involved in an abortion. What hurts most about the abortion photo is the violence. What happened to my sister wasn’t an act of violence. There’s a place for abortion photos on this blog, and I take the risk of seeing them when I log on. I know this, and I wouldn’t want that reality censored. It’s far too whitewashed as is.
Thanks again to everyone. My mom has been discharged from the hospital. The labor was relatively painless and the funeral arrangements have been made. My husband and I are planning on moving to be near them within the year. It’s so hard to have to relate to all of this through photos and to be able to help so little.
God bless you all!
The doctors made the women feel better. Not all of them, but most. It’s called compassionate care.
Posted by: Dhalgren at March 12, 2010 1:50 PM
yup. dead baby = compassionate care
you are a liar. Period.
Carla & Stacy
That is what I do not like about the ads..they don’t have a number on them. These ads were sponsored by the Family Life Office. They are great ads but I think too many steps for someone filled with shame in the middle of a subway.
To get help, they have to write down “Abortion Changes Yous” web site,(much easier to remember a #) go home and search the site to find a resource near here.
We have post abortion resources all over NY(Lumina is in the Bronx) but my understanding is they won’t allow you to do that,although we are listed on their site…
I’m a liar? I come to this site giving you valuable tidbits from inside family planning practices and NAF, and you call me a liar?
I come with truth. Look at my words. I said most women feel relieved. That’s a fact. You can check the medical literature. Oh of course, you’re going to come back with, ‘of course studies downplay the trauma, since the medical community covers for the abortion providers.’ Fine.
My intent here is not to help the other side. I sincerely believe that the truth is all I need to argue many aspects of this great debate. And I don’t rely on distortions or assumptions to argue the points made in this blog. I quite enjoy poking holes through some of the arguments made here.
For example:
A real man has a wife, not a temporary sexual partner.
Hmm. But don’t spouses start out as partners? Do they magically appear on your doorstep?
See. This is fun for me.
No, Dhalgren. As I said, a real man has a wife, not a temporary sexual partner.
My wife appears when both my bride and I say, “I do,” in front of God (we swear), our pastor, and a whole lot of people, including our friends and family. Then we sign some government papers that recognize us as a new family.
Do you need me to explain for you the origin of children? You see, I believe in family planning. Real men don’t have temporary sexual partners.
Relief is short lived.You don’t stay there long. I felt relieved for a couple of days. The crisis seems to be over. Your baby is dead, the pregnancy is done and you are told to get on with your life. However one nagging fact remains…..your baby is dead.
By saying that some women are “fine” after their abortions hardly refutes the stories of women who are physically, emotionally and spiritually hurt by their abortions.
I’m still interested in Dhalgren saying “we” when talking about employees of an abortion clinic. What’s your relationship, Dhalgren? What’s the name of the pony you’ve got in this race?
Hi, all. I wanted to thank you again for all your kindness, and to let you know that my parents went with Dominica, meaning “belongs to the Lord.” I’m not sure why I thought my dad had said Constance.
Here is Dominica’s obituary:
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/gastongazette/obituary.aspx?n=dominica-marie-nordmark&pid=140689394
My most sincere condolences to you and your entire family, MaryRose. I’m so sorry to hear the tragic news. I lost a sibling when my mother was 7 months along with him, and it absolutely devastated my family. I can think of only a handful of times in my life that my father has openly wept, and that was one. I hope your family may find solace in the love for one another you all share, and that your hearts find peace and healing in this difficult time.
I believe Dhalgren has said he/she is a clinic escort…
Mary Rose, I’m so sorry for your family’s loss. My thoughts are with you.
The ads haven’t been unveiled yet,
I’m not sure how accurate that is/was? I’m pretty sure I saw these ads at least a year ago.
Hello, everyone. Here I am again and I just had to share with you the ways in which God works.
My husband & I spent our nest egg on a minivan the morning of Dominica’s passing (we came home with the van and almost instantly got the call). We were upset to realize that we simply couldn’t afford the plane ticket to send me to the funeral. We’d just accepted the fact that I would not be attending when my little sister called from the Air Force Academy, where her friends had set up a fund to fly not just me, but both of our sons, out for the rest of March! I don’t even know these young people, and they’re flying us all out there! My husband has to stay and work, but has been extremely gracious and understanding of the circumstances. Friends of my mother’s found out about Dominica and pulled some strings to get her buried in the cemetery at the abbey nearby. My parents have had dinners prepared for them every night since the horrible event. A loose acquaintance got in touch with the AFA and confirmed that my sister had the time she needed for the funeral without penalty. My in-laws have offered to help in numerous different ways (financially, babysitting, cleaning, etc). And of course, the love that’s been poured on us from all areas (here on Jillstanek.com, through friends and family, etc).
While the circumstances are so difficult and sad, the love that we’ve been surrounded with is a true testament of God working in our lives! We have a powerful intercessor in Heaven who we all miss dearly, and our family on earth is being guided and cared for beautifully by our Father in Heaven.
Thank you all.
MaryRose – thank you for sharing what God has been doing. We don’t always understand how He moves but one day the extent of His work will be fully revealed, and there will be unspeakable joy and no more tears.
May God bless your entire family and all those who have shown loving kindness to them in their hour of need.
MaryRose: I’m so sad to hear about the loss of your sister and everything your family is going through.
On the topic of “real men”, I’ve been reading lately about Dennis Jurgens, a little boy who was killed by his adoptive mother in 1965. His birth mother loved him and had wanted to keep him, but she was a seventeen-year-old ward of the state and was told she had no choice but to give him up for adoption. Lois, Dennis’s adoptive mother, had been turned down for adopting by both religious and state agencies, but then she and Harold, her husband, adopted their son Robert through a private placement and the state relented when it came to Dennis.
Harold Jurgens let his wife abuse Dennis to death and stood by her for decades afterwards, even when she was convicted of Dennis’s murder and sent to prison. He knew she had killed their son, but he refused to help the state prosecute her and lived as her devoted husband until the day he died. The only difference between Harold Jurgens and men who allow their wives or girlfriends to have abortions is the age of the child.
When I say “allow”, I mean the men who are fully aware of what their wives or girlfriends intend to do and do nothing to even try to stop them.
“Hmm. But don’t spouses start out as partners? Do they magically appear on your doorstep?
See. This is fun for me.
Posted by: Dhalgren at March 14, 2010 11:22 AM”
Oh really??? Well, my husband did! We moved in together right before the wedding, and made our first wedding night THE first wedding night, and have been blissfully happy since. If people followed God’s commandments there would be no need for abortions too.
Dhalgren is just another Robert Berger. Dhalgren will use any chick he can for his own sexual gratification, but if any of you women get pregnant, you had better get on down to the abortion clinic….And yes, if a woman is good for quick sex, Dhalgren will wait around for the chase, but after he sacks you, it’s over. It’s been a proven fact. Men are easily bored after sex with the same woman again and again. This is why men cheat! BUT it really isn’t cheating if you aren’t married anyway.
Heather, you are hilarious!
I am committed to protecting legal abortion not for one person, but for the quality of public health in this country. Reproductive healthcare is a public health issue as well as a human rights issue. And no one who truly supports women’s rights would ever try to restrict reproductive rights.
So my pony in this race is the quality of women’s health in the USA.
I just checked the abortion changes you website, and it is rather benign. First, it discloses that the people depicted in the photos are models. OK. And the site does not explicitly assert that abortion changes all women in a negative, traumatic manner. Furthermore, there is a suicide hotline listed (which I interpret as silly as there is a big difference between arguing that abortion traumatizes you and abortion makes you suicidal).
But the great irony about the site and the companion book is that getting stories out is precisely how my side is trying to get abortion out of the closet and more accepted by our culture. Granted, we’re never going to make abortion popular, or even a topic of conversation among strangers. But it needs to be a topic that women friends can be comfortable with.
What my side needs is more celebrities to come forward and share their stories (I have long suspected the Drew Barrymore has had an abortion, and there are other celebrities who have had to abort due to serious pregnancy risks). If over 25% of American women terminate a pregnancy in their lifetime, then we need more of them to share their stories, both good and bad.
So these posters are quite harmless. Now I saw a poster that claimed ‘The Pill Kills,’ I would really get upset…
Dhalgren…abortion can make you suicidal. Ever heard of the Stacie Zallie foundation? She is a young woman who killed herself following depression she developed after her abortion.
Then there is Hailey…I forget her name but that book “Where is my rainbow?” is her diary. She killed herself on the anniversary of her abortion. So get your head out of the sand. It does happen.