Saturday night’s all right for fighting: Stupak bloc still holding; Dems bluffing?
From The Hill, 3:43p EST:
… Stupak says that “at least 6” of his original “dozen” members are standing firmly against the Senate healthcare bill.
Following a 20-minute huddle on the House floor with a handful of the holdouts, Stupak told reporters that he has “not seen an executive order” that would have President Barack Obama ensure that federal funds would not go toward abortions so would not rule out supporting it….
Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-OH) confirmed Stupak’s whip count of at least six holdouts….
The group met on the House floor as the presiding officer gaveled to recess while the president addressed Democratic lawmakers in the Capitol Visitors Center.
But, Stupak, Kaptur, Rep. Kathy Dahlkemper ( D-PA), Rep. Steve Driehaus (D-OH), Rep. Alan Mollohan (D-WV) and Rep. Nick Rahall (D-WV) continued to discuss the recent talk of an executive order….
FireDogLake.com throws more names into the mix:
[I]f Stupak only has 6 members in his bloc, this is basically over. Democrats already hold 7 votes who flipped from No to Yes; Stupak’s 6 plus Joseph Cao, Lynch and Arcuri would equal 9, and if you do the math (I have) you get to 215. That would mean basically one more No to Yes flipper would put you over the top, and I simply believe that Pelosi could get that.
But I’m curious about the other purported members of the Stupak bloc. Four members in my count in the Stupak bloc are not represented in this article. They are:
Jerry Costello (D-IL), Joe Donnelly (D-IN), Dan Lipinski (D-IL) and Marion Berry (D-AR)
In a piece entitled, “Democrats bluffing, don’t have the votes,” 6:01p EST, Byron York in the Washington Examiner reports:
But if there are in fact 32 original Democratic no votes that are still no votes, then Republicans need to find six other Democrats to vote no in order to defeat the bill. Cantor points to 1 original yes vote that has switched to no – Arcuri – and suggests there might be 5 others who could switch: Berry, Costa, Giffords, Lynch, and Space.
That leaves the much-discussed Stupak Group. The pro-life Democrat originally said he had 12 colleagues who originally voted yes but would now vote no. Stupak has lost some of those, but it is not clear how many.
[House Republican Minority Whip Eric] Cantor suggests that in combining those two categories – the yeses who have become no plus the Stupak group – there might be another 12 votes against the bill. “If we add 12 to 32, we get 44 – which leaves Speaker Pelosi 7 votes short,” Cantor concludes….
A 6:04p Gather.politics.com piece…
Are they bluffing? Well, most Democrats continue to insist that they will have the votes, although they don’t say how they’ll get the ones they don’t already have. Under the circumstances, bluffing is probably the only way they would ever get to 216. With the bill’s unpopularity, the number of vulnerable Democrats and the abortion divisions, they can’t get undecided members to agree to vote for it without a hard deadline. It’s high risk, but they need to put the pressure on wavering Democrats somehow.
If Pelosi or Hoyer were to admit for one second that they were worried, it could create momentum in the other direction. None of the undecideds want to be on record voting for an unpopular bill that won’t become law. No one would ever see any benefits, and Republicans would attack them for voting for Medicare cuts, tax increases and a “government-takeover” for the rest of their career (which may not be all that long).
Are they bluffing? Of course, but it won’t matter as long as they don’t admit it.
you guys are really following this. Wake me up when it’s over and tell me who won.
Hal,
No matter what happens with the vote, the democRATs are losers both in the short and the long term.
It difficult to determine which is deflating faster, B.O.’s approval rating or is ego.
There does seem to be a connect the dots kind of link between the two and both seem to be going in an same direction as the american citizens response to the B.O. hellth scare scam and the democRAT’s the constitution be damned full speed ahead over the abyss into oblivion strategy.
Perhaps the thousands of illegal/undocumented aliens in route to D.C. by the busloads will provide the needed votes to keep the numero uno undocumented alien from being evicted from the Whitehouse and deported to Kenya/Britain/Indonesia/Canada.
It seems like we’re watching a meltdown of third world countries parliment.
“Yes, we can.”
Yes you have.
yor bro ken
Sadly, I do not think this is going to be stopped. Evil sometimes has a way of pushing forward.
Hal – at this point, I’m with you. After the John Lewis situation tonight, I’m done with the debate until it is done. People are so mad or excited, and I bet 95% of them couldn’t give a rational answer on what they are mad or excited about.
In regards to the last comment about evil having a way of pushing forward – it will push forward but will continue to do so only if we allow it. We must not sit back and do nothing. We can pray that the hearts of those in Washington will come to understand what is really going on with the health care reform bill. We can also contact our senators and representatives, especially those who say they are pro-life, and voice our concerns and educate ourselves and others on the truth behind the bill. We can do what Jill does and write about it. Not just in a blog, but to our local newspapers or other social networks. I am involved with college campus ministry and my students are actually taking a stand by having a pro-life week on their campus, responding to articles in their campuses’ paper, and by providing information about the health care reform and the truth on the issue of abortion. We must get the word out there. As frustrating as it is, we must never give up hope.
After the John Lewis situation tonight…
Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 20, 2010 8:09 PM
If it’s true, it’s disgusting, EGV. I hope they can identify who it was. Someone must have cell phone video. Wouldn’t surprise me if obamacare supporters took a lesson from Alinsky and mingled with protestors to cause trouble.
I bet 95% of them couldn’t give a rational answer on what they are mad or excited about.
And I was thinking you were going to make a point without belitting those who don’t share your opinions about obamacare. My bad.
couldn’t give a rational answer on what they are mad or excited about.
Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 20, 2010 8:09 PM
How about mad cause there is a madman in the white house and he is driving our country to ruin. Here we are in a country in fiscal crisis and your solution is to expand government and bunge on deficit spending. How bad does the accounting have to be…. stealing funds from two other bankrupt entitlements; Medicaid and Social Security. And forcing people to purchase your health plan. You know this won’t be the end of it even if you knive your way to passage tomorrow. The people of America will not accept tyranny and government that flaunts their contempt for the Constitution and mandates we buy a contract from their exchange or go to prison. We will perservere to the end and with God’s help we will stop you from destroying this great nation. We do not want to go the way of France and Canada and Great Britain etc… And knocking you down over deem and pass was just a start.
Get ready to get bloodied again and again if this Senate bill becomes somehow becomes the law of the land.
But there is simply no way to make any changes to the Senate bill between now and Sunday and the Senate bill as is does NOT have the votes to pass the House.
Somebody(s) lying. They can’t all be right. Either Pelosi has secretly co-opted some of the reputed “no” votes and they are lying to Stupak and others, or Pelosi is running a big-time scam that will blow up in her face. We’ll know soon enough. Treachery is afoot.
couldn’t give a rational answer on what they are mad or excited about.
Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 20, 2010 8:09 PM
How about mad cause there is a madman in the white house and he is driving our country to ruin. Here we are in a country in fiscal crisis and your solution is to expand government and bunge on deficit spending. How bad does the accounting have to be…. stealing funds from two other bankrupt entitlements; Medicaid and Social Security. And forcing people to purchase your health plan. You know this won’t be the end of it even if you knive your way to passage tomorrow. The people of America will not accept tyranny and government that flaunts their contempt for the Constitution and mandates we buy a contract from their exchange or go to prison. We will perservere to the end and with God’s help we will stop you from destroying this great nation. We do not want to go the way of France and Canada and Great Britain etc… And knocking you down over deem and pass was just a start.
Get ready to get bloodied again and again if this Senate bill somehow becomes the law of the land.
But there is simply no way to make any changes to the Senate bill between now and the vote tomorrow. Itlooks like the guy who bragged about multi-tasking just had to cancel his trip abroad to try and pass a health care bill that desperately needs changes before it becomes law. Chaos and confusion and deception are the modus operandi of this president. The Senate bill has hardly even been debated on the floor of the House. They are desperate cause they see support dwindling but they know that the Senate bill as is does NOT have the votes to pass the House. Tough place to be so they are taking their only real option…rush it through in enough chaos to try and sucker the votes to pass it. Based on today’s events it would be justice so sweet for all the murdered babies if BHO got his first taste of failure because of his relentless attacks on the sanctity of life. For this I pray with my entire heart and soul.
well, this bill, which doesn’t go nearly far enough, will actually reduce the deficit and help some people with insurance problems. So, pass or don’t pass. Most people won’t notice the difference.
It certainly isn’t good enough for the haters to get all riled up.
Amen Hal.
FedUp – if you notice I said “mad or excited” – people on BOTH sides.
Multiple incidents today – Frank had a couple as well. I’m sure there’s been similar incidents with anti-war stuff. It just disappoints me with humanity.
truth – your rambling is not even worthy of any response past what Hal said – look at the numbers. If the deficit is what you are worried about, then this is a GOOD step. My guess though if you are a GOP person, you don’t care about the deficit!
EGV, yes, humanity is disappointing. Still, with all the obamcare advocates who are just waiting to catch something racist at the Tea Parties, you’d think someone would have posted some video by now.
truth – your rambling is not even worthy of any response past what Hal said – look at the numbers. If the deficit is what you are worried about, then this is a GOOD step. My guess though if you are a GOP person, you don’t care about the deficit!
Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 20, 2010 11:23 PM
Obama has done more deficit spending in his first year than Bush did total in his eight years in office. Keep telling lies, bigger each day, Obama calls it staying on offense. And now another massive government entitlement. But you are practiced in the art of deception aren’t you?
Ex-GOP and Hal, I need a little comic relief here cause this is getting me stressed out. Can each of you help me out and give me an honest asnwer to this question? When does human life begin?
Obama said he worked with Catholic churches when he got out of college…what a freaking liar!
John Lewis and Barney Franks alledge verbal vitriol on the part of people who oppose the B.O. hellth scare scam.
The democRATs and their fellow travelers in the lap dog lame scream media are on tape multiple times calling people who oppose the agenda of the progressive/liberal/humanist democRATs ‘tea baggers’, ‘terrorists’ and ‘bigots’.
Pardon me, but I want Lewis and Franks to produce some video and audio to corroborate their allegations.
It is well worn stratgy of leftists to cry foul, before the first word is spoken, let alone the first punch thrown.
Leftists lie. They are not to be trusted.
Every claim must be verified before it is to be taken seriously.
yor bro ken
If someone actually spat on John Lewis there would be some physical evidence which would contain the alleged assailant’s DNA.
You know kind of like Monica Lewinskys semen stained blue dress.
So where is John Lewis’ spittle stained coat and where the person arrested for exspectorating on the congressman.
A DNA match should be fairly quick and easy thing to do.
The democRATs in congress are peeing down our collective legs and trying to tell us it is just ‘yellow rain’ which is the result of man caused global climate change.
yor bro ken
Oh Mary conceived without sin,
pray for us who have recourse to thee.
Mary Queen of Peace, pray for us.
Mary Queen of Mothers, pray for us.
Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.
From your throne of glory in heaven oh Mary,
intercede for your children on earth.
May the right to life of all human beings be respected. So that all may obtain the heavenly goals for which they were created.
Blessed St. Joseph, Pray for us.
St Michael the Archangel,
Defend us in the battle.
Be our safeguard against the wickedess
and the snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him we humbly pray.
And do thou Oh prince of the heavenly host,
by the power of God thrust into hell
Satan and all those who prowl this world
seeking the destruction of souls.
Oh Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place all my trust in Thee.
May the divine assistance remain always with us. And may the souls of babies aborted through the mercy of God rest in peace. Amen
Ha, you guys are a trip. I think I’ll take John Lewis, the civil rights activist who has been bloodied by the KKK and served the country for decades – I’ll take him at his word. I think he understands the “n” word by now when he hears it – plus it was confirmed by others.
truth – only you could talk about Canada, Great Britian, Medicaid, the Constitution, and Obama – and when told your rambling was confusing, simplify the question to “when does human life begin?”
My answer? Tuesday
Millions of Americans are against this government take over of health care that includes tax payer funding for abortion.
There are a some radicals that will stop at nothing — NOTHING — to get this abortion-funding bill through. Does that includes throwing a few of their members into the patriotic, loving Tea Party movement and protests? Of course it does — the Tea Party movement has been very successful. Normal Americans are fed up with the government taking over everything, and with Godless Democrats forcing Christians to fund abortion with confiscated taxes.
Liberals learned at the feet of Saul Alinksy in Rules for Radicals when he said “First, there are no rules for revolution any more than there are rules for love or rules for happiness, but there are rules for radicals who want to change their world; there are certain central concepts of action in human politics that operate regardless of the scene or the time. To know these is basic to a pragmatic attack on the system.”
So, ignore the rumors of the so-called “racists” at the Tea Parties. The left and their willing accomplices in the media will highlight and trumpet any loser who engages in any sort of racist behavior, and they will try to blame it on conservatives and the Tea Party movement.
But those of us who are at the protests know who is there…black, white, Hispanic, Asian, male, female, Republicans, thinking Democrats, independents…and we are ALL fed up with the left’s take over attempt and their race bating.
RINO,
With all due respect to Johns Lewis for his sacrifices for the civil rights movement, he has never been associated with pro-life democRATS.
What ever lessons he learned in the civi rights struggle he has forgotten or chosen to disregard when it comes to pre-natal human beings.
The irony is that pre-natal children of african descent are being eliminated at genocidal levels and John Lewis has done nothing to abate the situation but has joined league with those who perpetuate the violation of the greastest civil and human right of all, the right to life.
I am not accusing John Lewis of lying. I am just saying his actions call into question his veracity.
If you wanted to hear the word ‘nigger’ tossed around like confetti at midnight on New Years Eve then go spend some time with men and women of african descent in your local jail or bar.
They are equally as casual with the word as any bigot I have had the misfortune to encounter.
RINO, let us know when John Lewis, produces the spittle stained coat, the man who was arrested for spitting on him and the audio and video of the people whom he alleges were using racial epithets.
Until then RINO, his and your accusations are merely the words of a bigot who takes umbrage at being confronted with his bigotry.
yor bro ken
RINO,
Whether or not Lewis’ allegations are true does nothing to change the fact that he has aligned himself with men and women who are willing to set aside the constitution they took an oathe to uphold and defend rather than include a provision that would prohibit the use of federal funds for elective abortions.
Dead babies are more important to them than health care or the constitution.
John Lewis and his fellow democRATS have extinguished themselves and it sad that a man with his history should trade it all to ensure more babies will die.
yor bro ken
My bro Ken –
I just want to say again that I appreciate you taking the time to answer me, but I don’t read your posts – just skip past them. If there is something of substance, I’m sure somebody else will bring it up and I’ll read it.
It is nothing personal, I’m sure you are a nice guy – it is just that you represented information so poorly in our first encounter that I would have failed a third grader if they had done the same thing. When confronted, you danced – you didn’t own up to it – so I’ve moved on.
Oh, I do see the post long enough to see RINO – I think ex-RINO would be more fitting – I DID associate myself with the GOP, but proudly do not anymore. I still vote for a few folks here and there – even a senator last election – but I’m not event a Republican in name only – not even close.
truth – only you could talk about Canada, Great Britian, Medicaid, the Constitution, and Obama – and when told your rambling was confusing, simplify the question to “when does human life begin?”
My answer? Tuesday
Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 21, 2010 7:42 AM
Thanks RINO,
I’ll explain it slowly for you one time.
1) Government control of health care is the topic of the day in case you missed it and I used Canada, Great Britain and France as examples of what we can look forward to if we join them in giving our health care system over to government control.
2) Stealing money from Medicaid and making cuts Medicaid shows a level fiscal irresponsibility that is beyond the pale.
3) What no comeback that Obama has done more deficit spending in his first year then Bush did in all eight ears of his presidency combined?
4)Thanks for coming to this board and openly sharing your positions. Just knowing there are people like you who don’t give a rats ass about the sanctity of is enough to recharge my batteries.
Let me know if any of these points are beyond your level of comprehension.
What denomination is your church? Does you church, or your God teach you not to give a rats ass about babies in the womb?
Ex-GOP
Are you also Ex-Catholic?
truth – good day to you. Congrats on the use of “rats ass” twice in one posting!
1) I would agree with you if the public option had stayed (though there’s a big difference between a public option and universal coverage) – without it, to say it is like one of those systems is simply a massive misunderstanding of health care systems around the world.
2) Want to clarify – do you mean Medicare or Medicaid?
3) If you’d like, I’d send you a good analysis of the current deficit situation. Back in the early 2000’s, it was projected that we’d be at a nice surplus in 2010. The downturn of the economy (thus affecting revenues) was an over 30% hit to why things are a deficit now. Bush’s new spending (Medicare, wars) combined with the unfunded tax cuts were the major portion. Obama’s new spending was very little in regards to the total portion of things.
4) So are you equating support for this bill as “not giving a rats ass about the sanctity”? That’s a bit of a stretch to me.
I’m more pro-life than most of the people on this board – especially those who had abortions and came to their senses later. If everyone was like me and my family, the abortion rate would be zero in this country!
Evangelical Christian- non-denominational church right now – we moved recently (among other things, health insurance sucked at my old job – family say double digit premium increases for 5 years in a row). Multiple ministers in my family. Never been Catholic.
RINO said,
“I’m more pro-life than most of the people on this board – especially those who had abortions and came to their senses later.”
You are a deceiver RINO. You can’t facilitate people destroying innocent life and absolve yourself of responsibility just cause your not killing your own children. You stand up proudly and facilitate the destruction of other peoples babies in their mother’s womb. You RINO, are a selfish Christian, not bothered when somebody elses baby gets slaughtered. You are not only less pro-life then those on this site who have had abortions and come to regret them, but you RINO are willing to facilitate mother’s engaging in the gravely immoral destruction of human life in the womb. And that makes you a Christian in name only. Jesus is waiting for you to see your anti-life disposition and repent from your anti-life ways and he will welcome you like the prodigal son.
RINO,
Do you support elective abortion?
Does your Jesus support elective abortion?
And if you can answer without blowing your cover, how about answering the question you keep avoiding. When does human life begin?
truth – with all due respect, and not sure of your theological background – but I don’t think anybody’s Jesus supports elective abortion (unless there’s a Mexican Doctor named Jesus something-or-other). No – I don’t support elective abortion.
Personally? I believe life begins at conception. Legally? That is harder to argue -certainly at the time of heart beat.
truth – when have I said I take no issue with abortion? What you did was jumped to a stupid conclusion without thinking. That is the WORST of Christianity right there – assuming something out of stupidity, and then being judgmental with a stupid, wrong-headed assumption.