New Stanek column: “The slimy task of pro-abort men”
The April 29 issue of Newsweek featured a conversation among liberal feminists about the future of the abortion movement.
Surprising to me was a recurring lament about the shortage of outspoken pro-abort men. Hasn’t the mantra for almost 40 years been, “My body, my choice”?…
Only last week pro-abort FL Rep. Janet Long told fellow legislators to “stand down if you don’t have ovaries” when voting on a bill requiring mothers seeking abortions to undergo ultrasounds.
The message has been loud and clear (“hear me roar”) that if you don’t have female reproductive organs, you have no say in abortion either personally or corporately….
I have no preconceived assumptions about pro-life men. I know exactly what kind of men they are. They are stand-up, not stand-down men. They respect women. They love children. They take responsibility. They are protective.
Unlike pro-abort men, pro-life men have no selfish stock in the pro-life movement. They don’t exploit women as sex objects where consequences are dealt away with.
I love pro-life men. They bring valuable, unique God-given gifts to the table to help in the abortion battle.
Feminists have no trouble bragging about strengths women have that men don’t, but they cannot admit men have strengths women don’t. I have no problem there….
Pro-lifer Gerard Nadal commented on my blog:
… It’s easier being a pro-life male. We get to be and act like men ought. And we get great women who aren’t at war with their own nature, which means they aren’t at war with the men who complement that nature and whose nature is complemented by women’s….
Continue reading my column today, “The slimy task of pro-abort men,” on WorldNetDaily.com.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
If ever there were an egalitarian social movement, this is it, and believe me, I am very sensitive on this subject.
My college pro-life group never had anything like a normal gender ratio. It was dominated by women! :)
I loved that quote from Gerard Nadal when I read it a few days back in the comments of one of your other posts, Jill.
Thank you, Dr. Nadal. May God deeply and richly bless you, your pro-life bride and your dear children.
It is really weird that pro abort woman seem to be so angry at men. Unless they were all raped,they participated in a very intimate act with a man in order to get pregnant and then they demand they have no say in the result of that act.
I have had some strange comments made by angry pro abort women to me….Like I bet you only like the missionary position…another one said why don’t you go home and walk 10 paces behind your husband…to which I answered my husband is deceased…I would be happy to walk any number of paces behind him to have him back. That shut her up but they were so angry in their demeanor toward the opposite sex. So I guess they were just using the men for sex…something that used to be said of men.
It can’t be fun being a male abortion-activist. There’s too much risk of bumping into the abortion-activist mother of his dead child.
Susie, I think it’s resentment. They resent men for being able to “have it all” without killing their children. Same reason they hate women who have managed to have both a family and a career.
But I thought all of these women are empowered by the sexual revolution, empowered by abortion, empowered enough to use men like men use women? NOW, they need them?
Gerard,
Thank you.
stand down if you don’t have ovaries
Uh, I have ovaries but they’re “retired” — in other words, I’m post-menopausal. Does this mean that I shouldn’t have an opinion about abortion, either?
Love that quote also by Dr. Nadal!!!!
Read about this on Lifenews; reposting my Facebook comment:
NARAL president Nancy Keenan hasn’t seen ANYTHING yet! We men lock it all away – we have to fight against our own instinct to protect women and children when we support abortion, when we run from responsibility, when we turn our back on our very manhood. Go ahead, woman, engage the hearts of men – I dare you. Tell us we need to fight for what is right. Tell us to fight like men. We’ll respond by being who we really are. Men are warrior-protectors! We’ll break forth like a hurricane all over abortion, but not in the direction she wants us to!
And, years from now, when she looks around at the ruin of what she’s built her life promoting, she wish she’d continued to tell us its none of our business.
My heart breaks for pro-abortion men…and for those whose children have been brutally murdered by abortion.
Women have been fed a lie – we all know this – but telling legislators to “stand down if you don’t have ovaries” is bunk…how many women have had hysterectomies due to cancer of the cervix or ovaries or uterus courtesy of the “pill” or as the result of an abortion? How many of us are in our menopause years?
I swear, pro-abortion feminists have taken leave of their brains.
Excellent!
Amen, JP Prichard!!
For such a time as this….
“It can’t be fun being a male abortion-activist. There’s too much risk of bumping into the abortion-activist mother of his dead child.”
Posted by: Cranky Catholic at May 5, 2010 8:19 AM
It can’t be fun being a female abortion-activist either. These women need to find help and healing. Praying for them.
JP: Right on, I have always told my wife that the only reason abortion is legal is because the majority of men have stood by and silently and shamefully allowed it.
Hi Jill,
I loved your column today about pro-life men.
When I was going through divorce and found full-time work at my local pregnancy care center, it was the pro-life men on our Board, volunteer counselors, and supporters I called each week that helped heal my heart, came to the Walk for Life and Banquets.
Even though my husband had been unfaithful and destroyed our family, I saw, met and interacted with good men, Godly men, men who put families (and others) first, men with genuine, generous hearts and souls. They helped me get past so much just by observing them and seeing that my ex was only one bad apple.
There were lots of great men out there and I would meet and hopefully marry one in the future.
Great column Jill!
hmmm. I think I get it. Men who agree with you are godly and good, men who disagree are selfish and exploiting. I’ll try not to take offense.
Good column, Jill!
“hmmm. I think I get it. Men who agree with you are godly and good, men who disagree are selfish and exploiting. I’ll try not to take offense.”
No, not quite. Keep working on your reading comprehension skills, and I’m sure you’ll get it eventually :)
“Unlike pro-abort men, pro-life men have no selfish stock in the pro-life movement. They don’t exploit women as sex objects where consequences are dealt away with.”
Killing or advocating the killing of vulnerable human beings is selfish and expoiting behaviors.
If he respects all humans from conception to natural death he is much more likely to respect me.
It’s just statistics and common sense, Hal.
Hal @ 5:11,
A pro-abort man who has a change of heart and repents is also godly and good.
In my experience, pro-abortion men were far less reasonable than pro-abortion women. My pro-abortion friends and I are able to come to a middle ground (I am pro-birth control)…..and most of us agree that we need to isolate the reasons why women abort and find real solutions. I still maintain that abortion is never the answer, and they feel that though it’s not a happy decision, it should ultimately be available. But we always agree there is a waste factor, and that women deserve to make an informed decision. Most of my pro-abortion friends believe that it SHOULD be unthinkable, but it isn’t. I never judge them, never call them names, and many of them find themselves becoming ambivalent about the issue.
However, the pro-abortion men I’ve met have been ridiculous. They’ve yelled at me, called me names, refused to listen to what I have to say, and they have even said that I am not a real woman because I don’t support the so-called “right” to abortion. Not a real woman! Like they could ever conceive. Of course, abortion is anti-feminist, and it really lets men off the hook. Don’t want a baby? Kill it! Responsibility goes out the window.
I’ve only heard the “not a baby” arguments from men. (Though it disturbs me that many pro-abortion women will admit that it IS a baby, but still feel that the mother has the right to take the life of her child if she sees fit.)
Pro-life men are real men.
Succinct and beautiful, Praxedes: “If he respects all humans from conception to natural death he is much more likely to respect me.”
Amen.
Carla and Ruthanne,
You are most welcome.
Jill,
Pardon the pun, but you’ve really hit some fertile ground here in this article. With this article, you have taken us to ground zero, the very epicenter of all that stands behind abortion and all the other horrors peddled by the radical feminists. You were unsparing, and I applaud you loud and long.
This article will go down as one of the “Best Ever” for its deadly accuracy. You should exploit the breach.
I’ve said for years that abortion will die with a whimper. The dynamics you highlight here give a glimpse of that going into the future.
Neutered males don’t become savage pit bulls simply because they’re commanded to. It takes a good amount of testosterone (literal AND figurative) to be ferocious in defense of one’s woman. Having seen to the removal of figurative testosterone’s source, the feminists are really living in a fantasy world in expecting their “men” to summon forth that which they have not the character or capacity to give.
Deviance distorts the lens of perspective, and this is as deviant and twisted a group of humans as has ever existed. Consider this in light of Isaiah 49:15
“Can a woman forget her baby at the breast, feel no pity for the child she has borne? Even if these were to forget, I shall not forget you.”
God holding out the most unimaginable scenario, appealing to the common denominator of humanity to suggest that even if a mother’s love should fail, His Love will not fail us.
Enter the radical feminists and their lap dogs.
You’re quite right about the men in the pro-life movement being deferential where women would make the better spokesperson on a topic. It isn’t strategic. It’s simply respect; not the lap dog’s respecting an arbitrary act of will, but respecting the dignity (literally, the standing) of the woman on a particular issue that speaks to her unique role and dignity in creation.
The reason pro-abort lap dogs can’t claim that they are doing the same is that radical feminists demand men surrender that which they have no moral right to demand, or men to surrender: Fatherhood. No sane or moral man can argue that fatherhood is a reality born of a pregnant woman’s whim.
It is its own ontological reality. Evidently what’s good for the goose is NOT good for the gander.
In military parlance Jill, you’ve caught the enemy in the open. Time to destroy them in detail.
Hey Ashley.
I think your intuition is quite correct.
Ashley,
Let me turn that around on you.
Your being pro-choice and voicing the sentiment that you have about men makes you guilty of a double-standard. What you are saying is that you only want your boyfriend for his sex, and not for his fertility.
You reserve the right to kill his child, yet bristle at the thought that he may feel the same way about you.
So you want a man to love both you and the product of your union, but you reserve the right to kill the product of your union, reducing the man to a thing whose use in your quest for orgasm is purely utilitarian.
Did you blush when you wrote the word ‘sleaze’?
You come off here as a raging narcissist.
You come off here as a raging narcissist.
Posted by: Gerard Nadal at May 6, 2010 8:45 AM
No she doesn’t.
Ashley is telling her boyfriend that he is good enough for sex but not good enough to start a family with.
From my experience and looking around a bit, I claim Proaborts and Prolifers don’t make for good committed partners.
I agree with Gerard’s comment but would add one word, “You come off here as a raging, sexist narcissist.”
Hello Jill.
Interesting angle on this one. But I’m commenting to say the last quote and your powerfully written final sentence were excellent. It would take a lot of thinking to find (if possible) a better way to express such.
Ah Jill, why would any man worthy of the name, care what a bunch of death-cult feminists think about how we behave?
Pro-abort men are dirtbags. Anyway, keep hammering these useful idiots, we’re gonna win.
An abortion is not about who your boyfriend is. It’s about a child, a living child, your child, his child. That’s the bottom line. Everything else is an effort to cover that up. Been there, done that, so this is not just a theory for me.
When you tell someone that it’s OK for them to have an abortion (i.e. kill their child) if they want to but, hey, personally, you wouldn’t do it, you are so indeed being selfish and self-centered, i.e., narcissistic. It’s like you’re in the story of the Good Samaritan but you’re one of the people who crossed over to the other side of the road rather than have anything to do with the person laying there who needs help, and then when you get to the next village you send a group of thugs back to beat her up some more (kill her child), and then leave her there to see if she survives. But hey, don’t you worry about her. You’re in a good relationship. That’s all that matters.
Not.
“Ashley is telling her boyfriend that he is good enough for sex but not good enough to start a family with.”
Lots of people are good enough for sex but not good enough (or not the right time) to start a family with.
“Lots of people are good enough for sex….”
That’s one of the most disrespectful comments I’ve ever read.
I’m a lady but you make me want to spit!
(I’m sure you’ll get a perverted thrill out of this rather than think twice about your attitude, because it seems like you don’t even have a conscience.)
Alice, I don’t even understand your outrage. I think men and women should be able to have sex with someone they want to have sex with, even if that person is not someone they ever intend to have a family with. That’s not a revolutionary idea. I’d venture a guess that most people have sex now and then with people they like, maybe even love, but don’t want children with. Who is that disrespectful to?
Obviously you’re here just to piss people off, Hal. I’m done playing.
Hal,
“Lots of people are good enough for sex but not good enough (or not the right time) to start a family with. ”
There are girls that guys would readily take away for a weekend that they would never bring home to meet the folks. Men are well aware of who these women are.
Men who indulge that are little boys treating these women as the McDonald’s Drive-thru, getting their happy meals and leaving the wrappers lying strewn about when it’s all over. Two people aping love, not knowing what they are denigrating, and making themselves less capable of love’s requirements in the future.
Your statement, in order to be functional, requires a conscious decision to separate the feelings of intimacy and oneness from the act and its aftermath. We’re both men Hal. How often in the company of men have we heard guys laugh at how they get out of the snuggling after sex?
And we wonder at why the divorce rate is over 50%, and has been for almost 40 years. It takes careful training to get the numbers that high. It takes precisely the disconnect you suggest here.
Professor,
this conversation started about a woman’s feelings and opinion.
“Ashley is telling her boyfriend that he is good enough for sex but not good enough to start a family with.”
People of both sexes are capable of having sexual relations without the desire to procreate or marry.
hmmm. I think I get it. Men who agree with you are godly and good, men who disagree are selfish and exploiting. I’ll try not to take offense.
Posted by: Hal at May 5, 2010 4:41 PM
wow. cry me a river Hal.
You abort two of your very own unique children that YOU fathered and you want us to believe that wasn’t a selfish and exploiting act?
ah too bad my comment was deemed offensive.
My apologies. But…
Amazing how it’s not ok for us to question men and women who have aborted their children as to their behavior.
My second question was also relevant but was deleted. That’s unfortunate. :(
I would like to know why the mods believe that asking a postabortion father whether aborting a child is a godly or good act might be offensive.
In some ways it bothers me at times that we have to be so…. “careful” with post abortive persons.
I know that many men and women don’t understand the full extent of abortion.
But this is not the stone age. Many people do understand that when they have an abortion, they are deliberately killing a baby. Whatever euphemisms are used, in their hearts, they know they are killing their child.
anyway, carry on……
Angel,
I am a post-abortive father, three killed and two living.
All three abortions were selfish acts. I recognize it, the others involved recognize it. And, while I haven’t been sidewalk counseling long, the few people I’ve had meaningful dialogue with outside clinics have all admitted it in one way or another.
Of course its ungodly. I’ve not heard of any selfish act that so negatively affects another person that could be called anything but “ungodly”.
As for being careful about how you talk to the post-abortive: it hurts being called an ungodly murderer – even when the label is accurately applied.
So, my question in response to you being bothered by the admonition to be careful:
What do you, or the pro-life movement in general, gain by using labels that cause pain to the repentant while encouraging the proud to dig their heels in further?
JP Prichard,
My condolences to you and the loss of your precious babies.
But I am also happy you recognize what you have done.
But are we always suppose to skirt around what abortion is?
I think that sometimes I get very frustrated with men AND women who seem to have absolutely no sense of sin.
I think this is what troubles me most: the loss of a sense of shame and sin both individually and collectively as a society.
I also feel angered sometimes by those who are post abortive and do recognize that what they did was wrong but to some degree blame others while NOT recognizing that there was some selfishness on their part.
They blame the circumstances.
Hey, I have absolutely no sense of sin. Sorry if that offends you.
Hal,
“People of both sexes are capable of having sexual relations without the desire to procreate or marry.”
Sure they are Hal. That’s the biological common denominator. But we have elevated ourselves over thousands of years by the search for truth and moral absolutes. Such absolutes find their validation in the sea tide of human wreckage all around us. Just because we CAN do something doesn’t mean we OUGHT to do it, or that doing it will be healthy in the long run.
What actually started this thread was a conversation about pro-abort men having been neutered and pro-choice women lamenting the lack of testosterone in the mangled men of their own creation.
Then Ashley essentially agreed with us about pro-abort males, except that she proclaimed herself pro-choice, and I went after her for her double-standard. Her retort, that abortion wouldn’t be a reality because she’s in a good relationship would be laughable were it not so tragic.
Would Ashley be having sex if the relationship were NOT good? One would hope not.
Beyond that, her retort that she can’t tell others what to do is sick and sad. Listen here to a 77 year old African man address Ashley’s position with clarity that is blinding in its brilliance:
http://gerardnadal.com/2010/05/04/our-next-pope/
Men who agree with you are godly and good, men who disagree are selfish and exploiting. I’ll try not to take offense.
Posted by: Hal at May 5, 2010 4:41 PM
Hey, I have absolutely no sense of sin. Sorry if that offends you.
Posted by: Hal at May 6, 2010 8:12 PM
Hal, If you have no sense of sin why would you have to fight off the urge to take offense at something? You don’t have this sense of sin right? Also, why state you are sorry for anything to anyone? Since you have no sense of right and wrong, there would be no reason to be sorry for any of your actions because to you they are neither right nor wrong.
Not having a sense of sin means you don’t have a moral compass to help guide you in life but you just mimick what you have heard those around you say. I don’t think you are able to deep down really get what others are feeling and why.
However, there is hope. “So I tell you to ask, and you will receive. Search, and you will find. Knock, and the door will be opened for you.” Luke 11:9. Jesus is closer than you think.
Sincere comments Praxedes and thank you. However, this “Hal” may be the same internet troll Hal who posts drive by comments simply to irritate people on other “conservative” sites.
I believe that the reason Hal and other men like him, who have aborted children, remain in the mind set of “it’s okay” is because they cannot really and truly ever think about what happened to their child during the abortion.
40 years ago I aborted my second child. Now, I knew my first conceived child’s life had ended in a miscarriage a couple of months prior to my second pregnancy, and I knew that I had “lost a child to miscarriage.”
When it came to laying down and submitting myself to a doctor’s instruments that ultimately killed my second conceived child, I did not comprehend that I was submitting to someone who was going to kill my child.
All I knew is that I was pregnant, eighteen, unmarried and wanted to have the “problem” taken care of … and it was.
As a result, for many, many years, I could not even THINK of my second child. I had named my first child, Michelle Ariana, she who was lost to a miscarriage. I called my second child by the same name in my mind in order to protect myself.
About fifteen years ago, I started thinking about my second conceived child and realized that “OH MY GOD!!!! I killed that baby by my actions! That baby was burned to death by saline solution in my womb .. ON MY WATCH … with MY COOPERATION”
That was a horribly dark period in my life.
That period was a culmination of years and years of alcohol and drug abuse, risky behavior, suicidal thoughts, promiscuity (as in – hey, it is only sex, who cares?) and other behavior that I am certainly not proud of.
So – Hal – I understand you – I was where you were, once upon a time.
I have received, since my darkest days, the most loving and compassionate people in my life through Rachel’s Vineyard – they helped me begin to love myself again – still working on that – and they did NOT CONDEMN me.
Hal, I do not condemn you or any one who has had an abortion. I do feel much love for you – whether or not you ever realize how much damage your abortion did to your life and to your child’s life.
I apologize on behalf of the pro-life community to anyone who has been injured by name calling or labeling.
We are loved – our aborted children deserved to live.
Oh and my second conceived child’s name? Matthew Dean. He finally has a name which he deserved all along.
God Bless us all –
You don’t have this sense of sin right? Also, why state you are sorry for anything to anyone? Since you have no sense of right and wrong, there would be no reason to be sorry for any of your actions because to you they are neither right nor wrong.
Posted by: Praxedes at May 6, 2010 9:23 PM
You misunderstood me. I have a firm sense of right and wrong. “Sin” has nothing to do with it.
JP Prichard,
Thank you for your voice here. God bless you!
Lee,
Thank you for sharing your story as well.
I am with you. I aborted my first child. Her name is Aubrey.
Those that are post-abortive know all too well the “darkness of soul” that comes when we realize the horror of what we have done to our children.
I have only compassion for Hal and any other post abortive man or woman who has not yet come to that very broken place over the lives of their aborted children. We have been there. \
I continue to pray for you, Hal and love you very much. I also join Lee in apologizing for any hurtful words you have endured here. You will be won by love.
Carla, you’re sweet.
I don’t even notice “hurtful words.” I understand that by posting here, I might interact with some who have vastly different world views, and on emotional topics.
Hal,
If you have a firm sense of right and wrong, then you have to have a sense of sin. Whether or not you actually believe in sin and act to avoid it is a different thing altogether.
The new pro-choice men’s T-Shirt.
HER BODY, MY AMUSEMENT PARK.
“I have a firm sense of right and wrong.”
Posted by: Hal at May 7, 2010 10:07 AM
Based on whose laws Hal?
Tony,
Unfortunately, I think your T-shirt would make big $$ if it is targeted to pro-choice men. ):
Hal – you write that you have a vastly different world view – tell me, in what culture is it deemed okay to kill innocent human babies? Not what is permitted by man made law, but by natural law?
My abortion is not an emotional issue – my abortion killed my child – black and white. Those who say that there is nothing wrong with abortion put in that it is an emotional issue. . .and that emotions are okay and we can be all over the place with emotions (which is true) but there is no “emotion” regarding the actual fact of abortion, which is the deliberate dismembering of an innocent human being. THAT is a fact – no emotion.
Let me ask you this – do you find the beheading of certain journalists by certain extremist groups off putting? Do you think it is emotional, or do you think that it is a fact – that a person was beheaded?
Using the mantra of “different world views” is a cop out. It is intellectually dishonest.
You misunderstood me. I have a firm sense of right and wrong. “Sin” has nothing to do with it.
Posted by: Hal at May 7, 2010 10:07 AM
How can aborting your children possibly be right?
I could see someone aborting one child. But to repeatedly abort children -????? :(
I’m sorry to disagree with you but IMO, you have absolutely NO concept of right and wrong Hal.
I’m certain in your own mind, there is no absolute truth either.
Lee, in our culture it is deemed okay to have an abortion. (I assume that’s what you were talking about when you said “kill innocent human babies.”)
That’s not just our “man made law,” but the view of a significant percentage of our society (I’m not going to debate whether it’s a majority or not, but we can agree that country is roughly split on the issue)
angel, my concept of right or wrong is simply different on this issue than yours. I think it’s “wrong” to deny a woman the right to an abortion, you think it’s “wrong” to deny the child the right to be born. Although we disagree on this question, I would venture that we agree on much more, regarding what’s right or wrong, than we disagree. Lee’s example of beheading a journalist, for example, is an action that we can all agree is wrong.
(your come back to this, of course, is “why is it wrong, Hal? What makes it wrong? How is that different than abortion?”)
Hal – why is the action of beheading a journalist wrong? By whose standards? By the people beheading the journalist? Surely not…by those who love the journalist? Surely.
But WHY is it wrong and do you know what I think about the beheading or are you just assuming that I am in agreement with you about your feelings on the beheading…
Abortion is the killing of a human life, Hal – the tissue is human – abortion is the deliberate termination of life.
Years ago, it was deemed okay to smoke cigarettes anywhere one pleased – on airplanes, in homes, even in the hospitals…but now it is deemed that one cannot smoke a cigarette in any of those places … and that is law.
Many years after smoking was okay it was decided that gosh darn it – smoking caused heart and lung disease – and often times cancer of the lungs and mouth and tongue!
When abortion became legal in 1973 in all states, it was said that now there would be a lessening of crimes against children because children that were conceived would be “wanted” or they could be aborted.
The incidence of child abuse, sadly, has risen, not declined –
It was also said that a “wanted” child would mean that there would be less crime – go ahead, I will wait while you research that…
And we have found that that most Americans do not believe in abortion on demand – but do like it for some cases, i.e. rape and incest – but oh yes, that is lost in the media reporting. And besides, in the case of incest or rape – abortion is still the deliberate dismembering of an innocent human being – the baby did not rape – the baby did not commit incest. That was only how the baby was conceived…
It has also been shown that women who have had abortions have a 50 % higher rate of suicide during the first year after having had an abortion. They also struggle with alcohol and drug abuse – promiscuity, low self worth, ptsd is also common.
Just ask yourself Hal – did you ever think you would kill one of your children and think that there would be no ramifications? Did you ever smoke a cigarette and think that it would not harm your lungs?
Oh and the journalist question – those that killed him thought they were not only right, it was their duty – somehow one needs to come up with justification for their actions too…do you want to do that, Hal?
“angel, my concept of right or wrong is simply different on this issue than yours. I think it’s “wrong” to deny a woman the right to an abortion, you think it’s “wrong” to deny the child the right to be born. Although we disagree on this question, I would venture that we agree on much more, regarding what’s right or wrong, than we disagree.”
First off this is evidence that truth for you is relative.
Your truth is that it’s ok to kill an unborn baby.
My truth (which is actually the real truth because it’s based on natural law) is that it is wrong to kill innocent babies in their mother’s womb.
I’m doubtful we would agree on much of anything in this life Hal.
Your values are 180 degrees to what mine are.
Every person created has the right to live from the moment of conception to natural death.
You believe a person only has the right to life when they are wanted. As for the rest of the spectrum, I can only imagine……
“That’s not just our “man made law, but the view of a significant percentage of our society (I’m not going to debate whether it’s a majority or not, but we can agree that country is roughly split on the issue)”
Hal, do you own a plantation?