Jivin J’s Life Links 3-4-11
by JivinJ, host of the blog, JivinJehoshaphat
- The South Dakota Senate passed a bill requiring women considering an abortion to visit a crisis pregnancy center and wait 72 hours before their abortion.
- The Texas House has passed ultrasound legislation:
Flexing their super-majority muscle in the TX House, Republican lawmakers swatted away a swarm of amendments offered by the Democratic minority on Thursday and gave preliminary approval to a House version of a bill requiring doctors to perform a sonogram on women requesting an abortion. Declared an emergency by Republican Gov. Rick Perry, the measure passed by a vote of 103 to 42.
- The state of Nebraska has been ordered to pay $136,000 to cover Planned Parenthood’s legal expenses on a bill PP challenged and NE’s attorney general decided against defending.
- Justin Moose was sentenced to 30 months in jail after pleading guilty to giving bomb-making instructions to an undercover FBI agent posing as someone willing to bomb an abortion clinic.
- HB 15, sponsored by state Rep. Sid Miller, R–Stephenville [pictured left], requires a doctor performing an abortion to conduct the sonogram at least 24 hours before the procedure was to take place. The doctor also is required to show the woman the sonogram image, play the sound of the fetal heartbeat for her and describe in some detail the image that appears on the sonogram. The woman does not have to view the sonogram or hear the heartbeat, although she still would have to hear the doctor’s description.
[Image via house.state.tx.us]

I don’t like the South Dakota bill, sorry. First of all, CPCs are unregulated. Anyone can set one up. Second, they’re staffed by volunteers who are not licensed counselors or doctors (for the most part; maybe some of the volunteers have medical training). The state shouldn’t be allowed to tell you to visit a group of non-professional volunteers. That’s like ordering someone to go to church or attend a charity function. It should be your choice.
I’m thinking the SD bill is set up that way (for CPCs to give out information) because asking an abortionist to give you accurate info about fetal development and your other options is like asking a lion not to eat you just this once.
They want you to hear what you won’t hear from the abortionist. The Truth.
How many are licensed volunteers, counselors and nurses at abortion mills?
Are the CPC’s required to give women the information written and printed by the state? In Texas, the state writes the brochure that women must be given. The state controls the content.
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/wrtk/
Hi Ashley,
Your description sounds like the average abortion clinic. If its good enough for the abortion clinics to be set up by anyone and run without qualified staff and regulation, then what’s the problem with CPCs? Also,like CPCs, some of the abortion clinic staff may have medical training.
Do you know of any women who have died in CPCs or have had rusty and dirty instruments used on them in CPCs?
Do you know of any CPC dirctors facing a possible death sentence for murder as is the abortionist Gosnell?
Actually, all of the people involved in the abortion have to be doctors and nurses. Some ignore it and hire unlicensed nurses and whatnot, but the law says they have to be, so you can catch and punish them.
Since CPCs aren’t regulated, who knows that you won’t end up in a really shady one? In any movement there are good and bad people, so there are indeed bad CPCs. I’ve heard stories about some of them lying to the women and saying their tests were negative, so they think they’re not pregnant and don’t schedule an abortion. Or try to guilt-trip them into adoption. There’s no way for South Dakota to punish them for doing that. CPCs are technically allowed to do and say whatever they want. The state should be regulating any facility they’re compelling people to go to.
There’s also the fact that most are Christian-affiliated. It’s not right for the state to force you to listen to someone else’s religious views. That was the same problem with courts ordering people who get a second DUI to go to AA: AA is religiously affiliated. Not with any particular church, but a bunch of their philosophy is based around relying on God. (Trust me, I’ve been to a few meetings.) They ruled that you can’t force someone to attend meetings run by a religious group. South Dakota can get around that by saying not ALL of them are religious, but almost all of them are. The ones I know of, anyway.
…so you can catch and punish them.
Ha. Good luck with that. I mean, look what happened to Phil Kline.
Anyways, if you’re really all about “choice,” then you wouldn’t be opposed to this bill. What kind of choice is it if a woman doesn’t know her options?
I was a volunteer in a CPC, Ashley…Birthchoice. It was staffed by Catholic women. I am not Catholic. We did pregnancy tests, handed out maternity clothes, baby clothes, diapers, car seats, etc. We referred women to (pro-life) doctors for pre-natal care. The literature we handed out was written by our state health department AND The Centers For Disease Control. Not ONCE did anyone try to FORCE their “religious” views on anyone else. Religion was never even MENTIONED. You don’t have to have a DEGREE to hand out diapers and answer the phone, Ashley. That’s what CPC volunteers do. You’re either just making that up to have something negative to say, or you’re listening to stories that OTHERS are making up.
I used to work at Birthright, and I know what great good CPC’s do. However, I’m with Ashley to some extent here, at least to the extent that this law probably wouldn’t pass constitutional muster about separation of church and state, as well as freedom of religion. I think it might depend on whether the center is directly run by a religious group or whether it is a set up as a non-religious non-profit whose members just happened to have strong religous convictions. In the first case I’m afraid it would be unconstitutional to force people to go there.
At any rate, there would be — I’m sure there already is — an outcry by Planned Parenthood and NARAL, who especially hate the religious-based CPCs and are going to fight this tooth and nail. I’m not sure what we’d be gaining.
But I think this law has the right idea in that it does work to separate the abortion decision from the actual performance of the abortion, especially since women are going to places like PP that we KNOW have a financial and ideological stake in “selling” abortion, who lie to women and pressure them and have failed again and again to obey state laws on mandatory reporting of statutory rape and parental notification, not to mention informed consent.
I think when a girl or woman is considering abortion, the place that does the abortion should be forbidden to do the initial counseling. The woman can go to any qualified hospital or clinic, public or private, that is set up and certified for the purpose, and get
a) a pregnancy test and medical examination
b) an ultrasound and the chance to view it, if she’s far enough along
c) information about fetal development
d) real counseling, that will advise her of her real options, where the CPCs are, what other financial help is, information about adoption agencies, etc. She should be asked whether she is being coerced by anyone, and will get help if she is.
e) Parental notification and mandatory reporting for statutory rape
f) A suitable waiting period
Then, when all that is done, and if she is still insistent on an abortion, she can get a signed voucher from the doctor, and if PP still wants the “honor” of performing the abortion, they can have it. But only under supervision, because they clearly need it.
I think this is in many ways similar to the European model; I think they do tend to have separate physicians counsel a woman and do the abortion. I think in many cases, they do require an outside consulation with another physician for abortions after the third month.
If religious CPCs are medically qualified and can do all of the above, they could be among the places a woman could go – but I doubt they would be willing to sign a waiver or voucher for an abortion, which is the same as a referral. I certainly wouldn’t be comfortable doing that. This is in part why the ideological war goes on. If neither side is winning in a particular state, maybe the idea of a neutral clinic would help. Unfortunately medicine is not always completely neutral on this point, I know. Many doctors will refer for abortions gladly, though they’ll never perform them. But I wonder what other solution there is.
Even if the law is passed, CPCs still have a great role to play in helping women who need initial guidance and help with the maternity and baby clothes, and formula and other financial difficulties, and finding jobs for people and offering parenting classes. And if in the end they can’t refer for an abortion, if a girl comes to them needing guidance, they would have an easier time giving them some initial counseling, and referring them to a doctor who will do all of the above.
I’m just wondering whether the do-it-all-ourselves model is always the best. I think many pro-lifers have a great fear of any state intervention, but if we’re going to have a law that requires state intervention, let’s at least do it in a sensible way and work within constitutional bounds.
However well it’s going at the moment for the pro-life side, I don’t see any major change coming until there is more of a major change in society’s attitudes, not only toward abortion, but toward sex and reproduction in general, not to mention to “me first” attitude of wanting total autonomy from all moral law. And what do we do in the meantime? I think a plan like the above would really reduce the abortion rate, maybe by 60-70%. I’ve devoted some thought to this lately. I wish I had a better answer, but something has to be done, that’s for sure.
(I know I’ve written myself into a hole in the above. Help!)
Hi Ashley-
First, congrats, darling! We are all so happy for you. May your pregnancy be problem free, and a source of great joy as you anticipate meeting your little one on the outside. We’re also praying for your mother. I have seen many mothers, even ones as persistant as yours, who soften and repent when a grandbaby arrives. Be patient, and keep yourself safe.
I so appreciate the positive comments you’ve made about CPCs. I can’t speak for everyone but there are fantastic organizations out there who are doing an incredible service to women and families, contrary to what the pro-aborts would like everyone to believe.
I can’t speak for every CPC, but this is what it looks like at the CPCs I direct- more than half the volunteers at my centers have medical qualifications, ranging from sonographers, nurses, midwives, and even general practice doctors and obstetricians. We also have many volunteers with professional qualifications in the helping fields- counsellors, teachers, community service workers etc, and lots of students who are at university studying a related field while volunteering with us to gain some “real world” experience. A few of our staff have none of the above qualifications, but they generally are involved in the more basic roles- behind the scenes admin duties, fundraising, sorting baby gear etc.
Everyone involved with us in any capacity is required to understand and agree with our policies and procedures, and is not allowed to be in a client care role until they have had significant reference and background checks, orientation and training and a supervised probationary period with a qualified staff member. We also encourage that staff undertake accredited training with our assistance. We’re very careful about who works for us in any capacity, and we have significant checks and balances in place to try to make sure we’re always offering the best services to the women and families who come to us for help.
Everyone involved is also a committed Christian. We pray for each other and speak the same language. However, we deeply respect the personal religious convictions of each person who comes to us for help. We do not discriminate against anyone in any way for any reason and believe that the common faith of our staff is a benefit, not a detriment, to the quality of service received by our clients (who often tell us so, often before they even realise we are Christians.) Jesus tells us to love our neighbor, to speak the truth in love, and to not judge, and we take those commandments very seriously.
I used to say that I had honestly never received a client complaint. I did actually receive one from a client’s mother a few months ago. Her complaint was that, once she realised that we are a Christian organization, we hadn’t revealed that to her daughter quickly enough. Her complaint was that she felt it was important that her daughter realise, in her words, that the only place she would receive unconditional love and support was from the Christian community (neither mother, or daughter, are Christians, btw.) I was gobsmacked, apologised, explained that we only want to help and didn’t intend to offend, and got on with caring for the situation.
Most CPCs are self-regulated, if by nothing else than the people who bank-roll us. If we did a terrible job, our funds would dry up very quickly. If we apply for government funding, we have to jump through the same hoops as everyone else and demonstrate the legitimate nature of our services. We are also regulated by all government laws pertaining to operating a non-profit agency, confidentiality, local government zoning, consumer protection, taxes etc. Many, including my own, are members of national and international peak organizations, which have strict regulations for membership.
We regularly receive referrals from local hospitals, doctors, social workers, chaplains teachers and pastors. We also serve clients sent to us from many other community organizations, some government and some not, including child protection agencies, domestic violence shelters, migrant and refugee groups, and welfare organisations. We are listed in hundreds of directories and informational publications, including our state’s peak medical association’s handbook (which was mailed to every doctor in our state) and in our government’s pamphlet about adoption services.
There may be a few questionable CPCs out there, but I’d imagine you could spot them very quickly. If you’re at all in doubt, ask for some details about their organizational structure and where their clients, and their finances, come from. Unless they are brand new, you should be able to tell a lot from the kind of reputation they have in the community.
You can also go directly to the peak organizations. Heartbeat International, CareNet, NIFLA, Pregnancy Help Australia etc list their member agencies and offer direct referrals to member agencies in your area that have the services that you’re looking for.
I hope this is useful info for you. Thanks for seeking “us” out- we are always very happy to help, and honor you for choosing life for your little one.
Michelle, great post!! Thank you! :)
A lot of CPCs do not share the Gospel as a rule.
(Personally, I think this is incredibly unfortunate.)
CPCs, however, don’t “force” religion on anyone. If they are faith-based organizations, then sharing the Gospel is a part of that, but by definition, no one can “force” faith in Jesus Christ on someone. You have the freedom to say “I’m not interested.” You’ll still receive help there, regardless.
You know, a lot of homeless shelters, soup kitchens, clothing rooms, food pantries, and the link are ALSO run by faith-based groups and churches.
Ever think perhaps it is their FAITH which motivates them to help? Maybe that’s not such a horrendous faith to consider, hmm?
Hi Kel,
The Salvation Army is certainly an example of a faith based organization. Its a charity that I happily donate to as I see the result of their work and dedication. Every day our local SA offers hot lunch to anyone in need. Any crisis and they are there to help.
You know the money goes to those in need, not to some nameless bureaucrat or rich CEO. They ran unwed mother homes at one time. A charity truly run on faith, dedication, and hard work.
As you point out FAITH is definitely a motivating factor for some charities, and what is so wrong with that?
As Rush Limbaugh pointed out, are we afraid to pass in front of a crowded church or synagogue for fear of being mugged? Is it people of faith we need to fear?
Ever think perhaps it is their FAITH which motivates them to help? Maybe that’s not such a horrendous faith to consider, hmm?
Amen, Kel.
“By their fruits you will know them.”
Thanks Michelle for your excellent post and I totally agree with you.
Ashley, our local CPC has been around for over 25 years helping women. No one EVER has “religion” rammed down their throat (that is why we have been around so long and why women and many other agencies even social service agencies refer to us), no one is “forced” to see an ultrasound etc. it is all FREE AND CONFIDENTIAL. The counselors and staff go out of their way to let women know we love and care first for THEM and their babies. We have a medical director who is an MD OB/GYN and nursing director who is an RN specializing in OB/GYN. The background checks and training is required for ALL staff so we don’t have unscrupulous people working with women. Many testimonies of girls, women, boyfriends and parents of how much we have helped them with lots of baby pictures to show and lots of return visits to the CPC for parenting classes and to let staff see their beautiful babies.
Abortion sonogram bill advances in Texas House
By JOE HOLLEY
HOUSTON CHRONICLE
March 4, 2011, 6:06AM
“I think it’s about shaming women, humiliating women and embarrassing women when they would have to undergo such a mandate,” Alvarado said.
Texas democRAT Joaquin Castro
==========================================================
Hey Castro,
What shame is there in having a wisdom tooth extracted, an
ingrown toe nail excised or a wart removed?
If this surgical procedure is ‘morally neutral’, then why would you think that any woman would be ashamed?
Witholding relevant medical information from a patient considering an irreversible invasive surgical procedure is an open invitation for a medical mal-practise law suit.
What about the unemncipated teenager? Should she be troubled with this informatin before she sumits to surgery?
Do you have a teenage daughter?
How would you feel if someone took her out of school, transported to a clinic and assisted her in obtaining prescription medication or submitting to surgery without your knowledge or consent and paid for it with your tax dollars?
What if it was your son whom they helped to obtain a vasectomy or even a circumcision?
ps:Don’t forget to ‘Remember the Alamo’.
Castro,
Please allow a little speculation on my part, but as incredulous as it sounds, even to me, I have ‘spider sense’ that it is you and your democRAT cohorts who are the ones who are ’embarassed’.
Your em-pty chatter as been revealed and your ‘-barassed‘ lies have been exposed for all to see.
”Joaquin, do you smoke the same dope as Sheila Jackson Lee or do you grow your own loco weed?
[Congressman] Franks [R-Az] ,…attacked an amendment that he said would allow President Obama, “the most radically pro-abortion president in the history of the country, [to] have [an] easily available mechanism to block the implementation of this legislation.”
[democRAT] Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee… took offense to that characterization: “Without doing a chronological analysis of presidents starting with George Washington,” she said, “I would appreciate if we could restrain our comments.
===========================================================
missy Lee,
No need for the chronological anlysis.
Name just one president who exceeds b o in advancing the ‘dead babies r us’ agenda.
By the way missy Lee,
When your momma was pregnant with you what species of embryo/fetus was present in her womb?
Don’t go lookin to b o for the answer, it is above his pay grade.