Jivin J’s Life Links 3-7-11
by JivinJ, host of the blog, JivinJehoshaphat
- NE’s fetal pain law has prevented at least 1 abortion. Danielle Deaver has gone public after the law prevented her from aborting her daughter, Elizabeth, in the 22nd week of pregnancy. Danielle’s water broke early and Elizabeth was given only a small chance to survive outside the womb:
There was less than a 10% chance their child would have a heartbeat and be able to breathe on its own. There was an even smaller chance – estimated at 2% – that the baby would ultimately be able to perform the most basic functions on its own, such as eating.
- Robb and Danielle… just couldn’t see the logic in exhausting painful, expensive medical procedures after being told they had almost no chance to save their baby’s life.
They decided: There are worse things than death.
“So (the perinatologist) came in, and we said we’d just like to put an end to this nightmare and can you help us. She said, no, she can’t,” Danielle said.
The perinatologist said NE’s abortion law, which had been in effect less than 2 months, would not allow Danielle to terminate her pregnancy because her baby still had a heartbeat and because her own life was not immediately jeopardized.
- Tricia Fraser, the mother of the girl featured on the pro-life billboard recently taken down in NYC is mad the pro-life group Life Always hasn’t apologized to her for using the picture of her daughter which she agreed could be used as a stock image and which the group purchased:
Fraser was blindsided by the shocking billboard early last week. The stay-at-home mom said she brought Anissa and her 3 other children to a modeling agency 2 years ago.
Fraser signed an agreement allowing the pics to be used as stock images, but said she never imagined her daughter would become the poster child for an anti-abortion campaign centered around African Americans.
- DE’s State Department and the Board of Medical Licensure and Discipline have suspended the license of Arturo Apolinario (another abortionist who worked with abortionist Kermit Gosnell at Atlantic Women’s Services), after AG Beau Biden provided them with more information. Last week the same board suspended the license of abortionist Albert Dworkin:“The information provided in this subsequent complaint was sufficient in their minds to issue this [order],” said Christopher Portante, a spokesman for the Dept. of State. “He had oversight of the facility and was responsible for protection of the patients at that facility.”
Portante said the fact that Apolinario was medical director at Atlantic’s Wilmington clinic played a “major part” in the decision to suspend his license. His position as medical director was not mentioned in the state’s earlier complaint.
- Fiscal and social conservatives agree on defunding Planned Parenthood. From Grover Norquist and Marjorie Dannenfelser:… [W]hat is now at stake in the funding fight over the nation’s largest abortion business is… about a whole herd of sacred cows. In fact, it’s about the whole farm: If a new Congress elected on a pledge to halt skyrocketing spending and deficits can’t cut the gold-plated panjandrums at Planned Parenthood, it can’t cut anything….
For these reasons and more, PP should be at the head of the cut list…. PP is awash in net income. From 2002 to 2007, the national organization and its affiliates took in $388M more than they spent on programs and services. No doubt the group lost some of that money in the same kinds of investments that disappointed the rest of us, but that has not prevented it from paying its president more than $337k in annual salary and tens of thousands more in benefits and allowances.
[Photo via NYDailyNews.com]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I am so mad about the first story that I could scream!
My water also broke at 22-23 weeks (my dates weren’t certain)
Instead of whining that I should be able to kill my baby or going home and doing nothing, I went on hospital bed rest for 2 months and took a coctail of drugs every day.
As a result, my son was born at 30 weeks and is now a happy, healthy 5 year old.
I am beyond disgusted that this woman would push for other people to kill their children simply because she was either misinformed by her doctors (shame of them) or too weak to fight for her own child (shame on her).
I contacted the reporter who wrote this article to give him some facts from the other side. We’ll see if he responds.
What ticked me off about it is that these people acted like, “How dare you force me to deliver my living child and have time to say goodbye (kissing her on the head, even), when I could have had her dismembered or sent her into cardiac arrest by lethal injection?” What kind of insanity IS this?
Well said, Kel.
It’s not even that, Kel. Little Elizabeth very likely could have lived!
When my water broke my doctor said that I had two options. They could do nothing and he would be born and likely die OR they could try some interventions and try to get me a little further along in my pregnancy.
Of course we chose option B. Who would EVER chose option A?
Why the heck would this family want to go beyond even “doing nothing” and run straight to “actively killing”?
I just do not get it.
I agree Kel and Lauren. If they desired, they could have had their baby baptized. They could have taken pictures and had family photos done – and there are photographers that do that for free so that the family can have healing and a permanent remembrance of that baby.
As hard as it was to have a child die – they could have had some loving moments together like the moments the mom described in stroking her child’s face and holding her, kissing her etc.
I wish the article was written in a way that affirmed life, however short, instead of being the public test case for abortion, and against the law in that state. Pity.
I hope that couple realizes someday what an extraordinary gift they had to be with their daughter, even for such a short time. I’m sure it’s difficult – but it totally was the right thing to do.
So……..they are mad that they didn’t have the chance to kill Elizabeth before they got to hold her and lovingly say goodbye??
I read the article and am now more confused.
You can’t have it both ways, Mr. and Mrs. Deaver. You either play God or let Him decide.
As hard as it was to have a child die – they could have had some loving moments together like the moments the mom described in stroking her child’s face and holding her, kissing her etc.
Joy, they DID that! They got the chance to hold her, kiss her, and say goodbye for the 15 minutes of her life. (And yes, I agree with you, Lauren – there SURELY could have been something else to have been done.) I think this was about money. I think they wanted to abort so they wouldn’t have to pay higher medical expenses to try and save her life. They admitted as much in the article. It’s disgusting.
The only thing sadder than the fact that the billboard in NYC presented the public with a conclusion without presenting them the argument and its facts, is the outrage by Ms. Fraser.
What parent in his or her right mind would ever sell their child’s image to a stock photo company and sign away the right to control what product their child’s image is being used to promote? It’s a little late for the buyer’s remorse game. Ms. Fraser was paid a sum of money for the open-ended use of her child’s image and now wants an apology??
In New York, our Jewish brethren call that Chutzpah.
The only apology that needs to be made is that of Ms. Fraser to her daughter for ever having consented to such an open-ended and indiscriminate use of the child’s image in perpetuity for a sum of money that can never equal the child’s worth and dignity.
That said, this particular use of her child’s image may well be the noblest for which any person will ever use it.
This is just a failure on all levels. If money was there concern, someone should have gotten them in touch with the hospital social worker who could have seen if they were eligible for Prenatal Chip or other programs.
When Elizabeth was born, she would have been eligible for SSI and SSI medicaid. Her medical bills would have been paid through these programs.
Why weren’t her parents told about these programs?
If these parents were not told about all that could be done to save their child’s life I have nothing but sympathy for them. I can’t imagine anything more heartbreaking than to learn after the fact that your child’s life could have been saved.
Were they told and simply decided it was “too much”? If so, I’m sorry but they need to shut up and stop advocating for the death of other people’s children.
Kel – I know they had the beautiful opportunity to be with their child, especially at that tender time, and yet the article was saying that they should have been able to abort and they wanted to do just that.
Goodness. I can’t imagine still wanting to kill their child after all this. Maybe it’s money, maybe they don’t have a strong support system. It almost seems like the court challenge in the making – like the one using Norma McCorvey.
And Gerard – exactly.
so she’s saying she would have preferred having her living baby dismembered with forceps. How is THAT somehow supposed to spare the baby any undue suffering?
They probably have hospital bills to pay, too. Wonder if Planned Parenthood of the Heartland promised a bit of help with those bills in exchange for being trotted out as the show ponies against the fetal pain law.
Ii also don’t find it surprising that somebody who was married in a Methodist church is pissed off that GOD, and not she herself, decided when and how her child would die. Methodists are frankly Satanic, at least when it comes to abortion.
Kel, if they’d have just gotten pre-natal chip the mother’s medical bills would be paid for as well because it covers the mother during the pregnancy.
Maybe that should be our new slogan. “saving life saves money!”
I think Elizabeth’s parents’ mindset boils down to, “We didn’t want to go through the pain of losing a child, and we’re going to blame other people for making us actually look at our child before she died.” I get the feeling that this is what they’re doing to let out some of their anger about losing their daughter. They can’t launch some sort of campaign against God and change what God does, so they’re fighting something on the mortal level.
Tricia Fraser should have considered the possiblity that her daughter’s picture could be used for just about anything legal when she let the picture be used as a stock image. Nobody owes her an apology because she didn’t think out the possible ramifications.
I think it’s interesting how the people in that article felt the need to even bring up her religion (and their life story, awwww, as if that has anything to do with their desire to kill their child). Pro-choicers who claim to be “Christian” seem to have this obsessive need to bring it up, as if to say, “Hey, I’m a CHRISTIAN, and I think it’s OK to abort!” as if somehow no pro-choicer claiming to belong to the Christian faith could possibly be wrong. I noticed this in the comments at the end of that article, too. “As a Christian… I believe every woman should have the right to choose.” Oh, really? You believe that “AS a Christian?” If you can tell me where God says every choice (especially the choice to kill one’s child) is just as valid and “Christian” as choosing life, then maybe you can get away with that, honey, but until then, you’re only deluding yourself.
Kel, I saw that too! You’re absolutely right. And did you notice the one pro-life comment got voted down? Typical.
Shame on this family for using their daughter’s death to promote the death of other children. SHAME on them! If they really, as they say, think all children are a gift from God then why are they pushing for parents to be able to dismember that gift?
The “I want to kill my child to PREVENT his/her suffering” crowd is really starting to get to me….I just don’t get it.
I pray that she realizes the gift that she has been given. I hope someone directs her to the site
http://www.benotafraid.net Someone might need to educate her on what a second trimester abortion entails. It doesn´t tickle.
Her child was 23 and four days when she was born. Babies can survive that. Perhaps she needs to hear about Lauren and others with such diagnostics.
She said so herself; the baby didn´t have any of the deformities the doctor predicted. What makes it so sure that Elizabeth would not have survived or thrived?
When she learns about fetal development and all the other options, perhaps she will stop using her story as a way to defeat the law. If she becomes grateful for the chance to have seen and touched her child, we can bet that the story will be dropped quickly!
I think this was about money.
Kel,
BINGO.
It’s so sad to me that anyone would place their finances ahead of their children :( I can’t imagine!
I would like to take a try at an apology to Ms. Tricia Fraser:
On behalf of the group to which I don’t belong called Life Always:
1. I am sorry that your daughter’s image was used to promote life
2. I am sorry that your daughter is the same color/race as the children who are killed at a rate of 6 out of 10 in New York City.
3. I am sorry that your daughter’s cute expression caught the eye of the folks at Life Always.
4. I am sorry that the billboard/poster was left up long enough for some unidentified abortion supporters to see and use as a reason to give waitresses at a nearby restaurant a hard time.
5. I am sorry that your daughter is old enough to realize that you are angry that her image was used to promote life rather than abortion.
6. I am sorry that our current president views youngsters like your daughter as a burden and a punishment.
7. I am sorry that I can’t guarantee that your daughter will grow up to be pro-choice and endanger the lives of your own grandchildren.
How’s that?
Oh LOOK – its the Tiffany Campbell of Iowa. I am so disgusted right now. Jesus have mercy! The abortion industry – Planned Parenthood, et. al, will stoop to any depth. ANY DEPTH!
http://www.voicescarryblog.com/sds-post-abortive-mom-tiffany-campbell-goes-national-in-quest-for-atonement/
How about,
8. I am sorry that you signed a paper releasing the image of your minor child without thinking twice about what it meant
?
I think what the pro-abort thinkers, the strategists behind the movement do is they just use the kindness of the American people to get their way. What they deny the unborn is real mercy. So my prayer for them when they lose the ability to sway public opinion is that they will they themselves be the recipients of fake mercy of course unlike them I think their life has value I think it just needs to be valued as far away from the vulnerable as possible.
I would think Danielle and Robb would have been GRATEFUL for those precious 15 minutes that their daughter lived. Of course, they use this article to attack the good pro life law. Little Elizabeth would have felt MORE pain having her tiny body torn apart.
One thing the article did….definitely told me doctors NOT to go to if I lived in Hastings….like the one who was looking for a way to HELP them KILL Their baby.
I am sure Carhart with No heart would have been glad to do the deed.
The comments to the article were disheartening….few were pro life.
One comment just HAD to bring up “church and state” when this law has NOTHING to do with religion.
They said the parents couldn’t see the logic of paying medical bills with such a small chance to save the baby’s life. Well the logic is that there is a small chance the baby will survive and most people would consider it worth the trouble to save their own child, (I know it sounds crazy)
It seems that abortion is one situation where it is okay to decide for a child that there life isn’t worth saving. If you really cared about your child, it seems like you would want to fight for that chance but with abortion you’re taking away that chance. If they don’t survive at least you could say you did everything you could for them. If
Also, what makes abortion a better way to die? It has to be a very painful thing. How is that better than letting the child die naturally?
Lauren, I read your feedback on the Des Moines Register article and at nestatepaper.com. We have another man who has come forward from Nebraska with an outcome similar to yours, same circumstances. We are working with a maternal/fetal specialist who testified for the bill to get his medical opinion into the media about this case. Please contact me Lauren at nebraskartl@gmail.com if you would be willing to go public with your story. Six other states are on floor debate or in committee hearings at this time with this legislation and your voice is needed. Thank you.
Julie, I emailed you. I would be happy to help in any way you need.
I think a lot of the commenters here need to stop, pray, and reflect on why they feel comfortable passing judgment on what the Deaver family should have done. But were any of you actually in the room with the couple? It is easy to criticize and attack someone from afar, but it’s also sinful and prideful of you all. Because of this law, the Deavers were forced to watch their baby die, This is a moment for sadness and reflection on how the pro-life movement is literally hurting defenseless babies. This is not a moment for gloating.
Tom,My mother had to go through labor & delivery of a dead baby, after she died of placenta abruptio. Let me tell you that it is FAR preferable to be able to hold your living baby in your arms and say goodbye before she dies. The Deavers were given an opportunity to try to save their daughter, and, failing that, to say goodbye to her. But they spat at that gift because they would rather have had their daughter killed in the womb. If you don’t see the evil in that, you need our prayers.
” This is not a moment for gloating.”
Who is gloating? We’re asking why this family were either not told of the options to save their daughter, or why they refused to try if they were told.
These are very valid questions to ask, especially because reports such as this one imply that children like my son shouldn’t be given a chance to live.
@Tom:
I think a lot of the commenters here need to stop, pray, and reflect on why they feel comfortable passing judgment on what the Deaver family should have done. But were any of you actually in the room with the couple?
All other considerations about the wrongness of abortion and the fact that one of the commenters here has, in fact, been in that room facing this same situation aside, it’s worth mentioning, the Deaver family deliberately put this story out for public consumption. They are choosing to relate their experience to the public in order to provide anecdotal evidence in support of a particular political agenda. Their decision to tell everybody what they decided and the circumstances under which they decided it is, by its very nature, a deliberate invitation for the public to judge that situation and determine its merits for themselves. That’s why people tell anecdotal stories in the first place.
It’s true they want a particular judgment from the public. Their intention was that people would hear this story and judge that they were unfairly treated by a cruel law. However, by opening themselves to that judgment, they have also opened themselves to the judgment that their decision was wrong and their attempt to kill their child was cruel, heartless, wrongheaded, and shockingly inhumane. When you deliberately, purposefully invite public scrutiny, you must be prepared for some of that scrutiny to be negative. That’s what inviting public scrutiny means.
Lauren, if you re-read the article you will see that the Deavers would have tried anything to save baby Elizabeth, “It was possible Danielle’s body could make more amniotic fluid, and the baby would be all right.
“I said, ‘OK, what do we need to do? Do I need to stand on my head for the next four months? Whatever it is I need to do,’ ” Danielle said.”
They got a second opinion, that perinatalogist said, “Danielle had suffered anhydramnios, a premature rupture of the membranes before a fetus has achieved viability.
Without amniotic fluid around the fetus, the infant would likely be born with contractures, a shortening of muscle tissue that causes an inability to move limbs. Because the skull of the fetus was still soft, the muscles in the mother’s uterus would likely cause deformities to its face and head. It also was unlikely the baby’s lungs would develop beyond the 22-week stage, when Danielle’s water broke.
“Even if we did carry the pregnancy further, and we decided to try heroic measures with ventilation and stuff, she may not even have the anatomy to maintain” life, Danielle said. “You have to have the anatomy to have the ventilator help.”
The couple talked about bed rest, fluid replacement, steroids and any other idea they could imagine to save the pregnancy.”
I have spoken with Danielle and she wanted to be induced early, no surgical abortion was ever considered. Had she been induced 10 days earlier like she wanted would still have allowed her to hold Elizabeth, have her baptized, etc. Forcing a woman to watch her much wanted baby suffocate is cruel. Danielle and Robb allowed her medical records to be viewed by media, Lauren, are you willing to do that? Because I have a feeling that your situation wasn’t as bleak as the Deavers.
You guys are all shockingly wrong and cruel to be judging this family. The Deavers never asked for a D&E, or an abortion procedure–which is where I assume you’re getting the idea that they wanted to “rip arms and legs off their baby.” Read the actual reports. They wanted to induce labor. They weren’t allowed, but the outcome was exactly the same: the baby was born and unable to breathe.
As for judging them for not racking up astronomical bills in a futile attempt to save this baby’s life (And it WAS futile, since she did end up dying just as the doctors predicted she would), I’m sure none of you have ever gone bankrupt from medical bills. Let us know when you have any clue what you’re talking about.
As for the people sneering over the concern about medical bills: not all of us are made of money. I ended up in the hospital in early January for 1 day. Actually, less than that. I checked in at 8 am and was home by 3. They didn’t do much of anything besides run a few tests. The Cleveland clinic just sent me a bill for $2,100 dollars.
I have insurance, but the deductible is so high I have to come up with $2,000 on my own. I can only imagine the mind-numbing bills this family has racked up. If pro-lifers thought it was so important to wait for the baby to die naturally, they should have taken up a collection for them. The Republicans in Texas passed a bill requiring women to view an ultrasound before an abortion. The Democrats attached an amendment that any woman who changed her mind and chose life after seeing it should have her child’s medical care covered til age 6. That seems fair to me, but of course the Republicans voted it down.
The fact remains that this family is using their own tragedy (and the pro-aborts are using their tragedy) to push an agenda – an agenda which would TAKE the lives of so many more VIABLE, HEALTHY babies.
Do I believe the abortion industry is behind this push? Yes I do. Do I believe the Deavers are being used or allowing themselves to be used as pawns so that the abortion industry can continue killing perfectly viable and healthy babies for ANY reason up until the day of birth? Yes I do.
As for trying to make taxpayers pay for all of a child’s medical costs (up until age 6?) because a woman becomes FULLY INFORMED about the personhood of her child – who are the Dems trying to BS here? “Hey, you all showed me that my kid was alive and kicking, so now YOU gotta pay for it!” Yes, how dare we insist that a woman should actually know what the he** she’s getting herself into if she chooses to abort. How DARE we try to spare women a lifetime of regret. How cruel we are insisting that human life should not come with a bribe price tag attached. Yes, let’s “penalize” those pesky know-it-alls who dared to claim that a woman seeking an abortion should know the truth. Good Lord.
Ashley, my 23 year old cousin is dying of brain cancer. Her husband is racking up ASTRONOMICAL medical bills that I can’t even comprehend. I feel for them. Is the solution to kill my cousin early? (She is on hospice and has been given only a few months to live).
Medical bills are scary. Been there! But that does not mean you hasten death. You’re missing the point.
This family is fighting to allow other babies… viable, healthy babies be killed. Thats SICK.
Sydney is your cousin in your body? If not, this story doesn’t apply.
Tiffany, there are few other situations I can think of in which someone is inside someone else’s body. That doesn’t necessarily negate what Sydney was saying. Your comment is simply a way to attempt to shut down debate. The fact remains that this story (and your story, as well, if I’m remembering correctly?) is being used by the abortion industry to attempt to promote the destruction of other healthy, viable babies.
Kel,
South Dakota’s only abortion clinic only performs first trimester abortions, therefore my story is NOT ” being used by the abortion industry to attempt to promote the destruction of other healthy, viable babies.” Because we both know that babies are not viable in the first trimester.
Tiffany – perhaps I’ve confused you with another commenter here, then.
From the article:
“So (the perinatologist) came in, and we said we’d just like to put an end to this nightmare and can you help us. She said, no, she can’t,” Danielle said.
The perinatologist said Nebraska’s abortion law, which had been in effect less than two months, would not allow Danielle to terminate her pregnancy because her baby still had a heartbeat and because her own life was not immediately jeopardized.
Maybe this couple did want at some point to induce labor early, but at some point they did look in to getting an abortion. So, yes, discussion of abortion is on point here.
Like I said before, they wanted to be INDUCED, not the same thing as a surgical abortion.
That would be considered an intact D&E, which most certainly is a type of abortion if the intent is to hasten the death of the child.
Sydney
I’m seen miracles with prayer clothes. I’ve seen an individual who had a big turmor in or by his brain. His prognosis was he was probably going to be a vegetable after the surgery. I got him a prayer cloth. Last I heard the vegetable was doing fine! I know a lady that had a tumor I think it was in her stomach the tumor was the size of a cantaloupe. There were thinking she wasn’t going to make it. I got her a prayer cloth. Last time I spoke to her she gave a saint the credit. I gave the prayer cloth the credit. Anyway I’ve seen some serious miracles with prayer cloths. You can call the 700 club I think they will send your cousin one if you ask. Anyway theres always hope. Of course it’s not the prayer cloth itself it’s the Holy Spirit doing the healing. Will be praying for you cousin. 1-800-759-0700/ 700 club
Myrtle, thank you very much for your prayers! She has such a good testimony for Christ. She is peaceful about the real possibility of death although we are praying God will work a miracle. She knows she has put full faith in Christ and will be with Him forever upon her death. That gives her a real peace. I am so humbled by the grace of God so clearly exhibited in her life.
But yes, keep praying for her! She should be experiencing the bliss of new marriage with her young husband and thinking about children etc… not planning her funeral. God has a purpose in all things though its difficult to see sometimes.
Sydney, this conference contains some awesome revelation for those who need healing. I hope this blesses you as much as it has me.