Pro-lifers picket Orlando Planned Parenthood CEO’s church
The story goes that during the Nazi Holocaust members of a church located near railroad tracks where cattle cars transported Jews to their deaths became disturbed when on Sunday mornings they could hear those Jews crying out for help.
The solution was for congregants to begin singing a little louder when they heard the train whistle blow in the distance, so their worship service wouldn’t be disturbed.
If what happened yesterday at the First Congregational Church in Winter Park, Florida, doesn’t fit that description to a modern-day tee, I don’t know what does. 1.2 million babies are being killed every year in America by abortion, and let’s hide the atrocity from the church with sheets.
This is the church where the CEO of Planned Parenthood of Greater Orlando, Jenna Tosh, attends. (Read backstory here.) It is also City Commissioner Sarah Sprinkle’s church. Sprinkle is one of the four who support a free speech ban against protesting at people’s homes.
The First Congregational Church is an affiliate of the United Church of Christ, a pro-abortion denomination of which Barack Obama is also a member.
Yesterday, FCC church members got wind that pro-lifers planned a picket and 30 of them stood ready wearing deathscort vests and carrying sheets. Click on all photos to enlarge. In this one, they look angelic don’t they? (“Even Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light.” ~ II Corinthians 11:14) A close-up reveals this was their goal. Many are wearing white flowered halo headbands….
Pro-lifers were smart. They simply held signs quoting Scripture…
Many of the participants were children…
One of FCC members wrote a preemptive note to church members:
We want to make you aware of a potential demonstration this Sunday morning near the premises of our church building. It has come to our attention that a group plans to gather to protest two particular issues. First, they want to protest the work of one of our members, Jenna Tosh, who is the CEO of Planned Parenthood of Greater Orlando. We know Jenna and support her in her work and as a member of our congregation. Second, this group may protest the fact that we ordain gay and lesbian clergy. This is something we support as an Open and Affirming congregation and as individuals.
Our church has always stood on the side of justice and freedom. We have always strived to create a community that supports thoughtful dialogue. However, we do not want any members to be surprised on Sunday should you see protestors on the sidewalks with signs, posters and pictures, some of which may be quite graphic. We are making appropriate plans to create a welcoming environment. Members who have been trained to escort you into the building will be on hand at every entrance should you wish any assistance. They will be wearing bright neon yellow vests….
We hope you will attend worship this Sunday, September 23rd, as we stand united in what we believe and as we demonstrate our support for Jenna Tosh and her family. This will be an opportunity to be the church together as we bear witness to our faith and the Still Speaking God.
The City Commission plans its final vote on the free speech ban tonight.
As an interesting aside, Jenna Tosh’s brother-in-law is Comedy Central’s Daniel Tosh.
Here’s a short video clip to give you a sense of the event…
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClCDNXgljic[/youtube]
[HT: Jay Rogers at Forerunner.com]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Great work, keep it up. It is time, the Church needs to be exhorted.
Our church has always stood on the side of justice and freedom.
…unless you’re unborn, in which case you can be killed with impunity.
Those millstones must be cutting off the supply of oxygen to the brain.
Daniel Tosh? Ew. He just loves the rape and abortion jokes, doesn’t he?
I’m sure all the members were just utterly traumatized by all those Scriptural references.
I still think that stalking abortionists beyond their place of work is not productive, in fact I would never condone it or do it. However, their response was…angel costumes to blot out the protesters?
Wow. Kinda creepy.
I do stand and protest outside clinics, but some of this is worrisome because people can be so emotional when you take it to an environment that is not an abortuary. I know that the commenters will slam me and tell me that the ends justify the means. But really? Where does it end? Should we stand outside mosques with signs that say, “Jesus really was crucified: your religion is wrong!” Should we stand outside synagogues with signs that say, “Jesus really rose from the dead: your religion is wrong!” Those things may be true, but are we winning hearts and minds?
Free speech says, oh we can do anything (non-violent and civilized). But is it really the way to convert people?
I fully support protesting outside clinics, just as I already do. But homes and churches? That is NOT my list of useful tactics.
In fact, I’m rethinking my participation in activism and wondering how I can bring a more positive message. Even I have been more “anti” than “pro.” I haven’t spun the positive as much as I could. Many of my fellow parishioners don’t know the first thing about natural family planning. Many of my fellow parishioners couldn’t tell you the name and address of the nearest pregnancy resource center. Many of my fellow parishioners don’t know much about fetal development, how soon the heart beats, etc. Maybe this is a wake up call to me to radically change the tone of my own activism. Maybe this is a wake up to show the awesome beauty of our earliest moments, the wondrous and amazing process that is the beginning of human development.
Stay safe out there, protesters. It sure is weird and creepy on the pro-abortion side of the issue!
Should we stand outside mosques with signs that say, “Jesus really was crucified: your religion is wrong!” Should we stand outside synagogues with signs that say, “Jesus really rose from the dead: your religion is wrong!” Those things may be true, but are we winning hearts and minds?
No. Because we’re not all religious, which means that bit is still up for debate. But it IS very definitive that children are being killed by the thousands by abortions daily. So, there’s that.
So they’re stealing the angel idea from genuine Christians protecting families from the evil, lunatic WBC, eh? Nice.
They should be called the Non-United Church of Christ. For who exactly are they united to? They are not united to God, who is Love! They are not united to Jesus, who asked us to protect the weakest among us! They are not united to each other, for they do not understand what love means! And they are not united to all preborn children since they support abortionists.
It is good to see Christians helping struggling Christians.
I am impressed by the courage and probity of these prolifers, respectfully correcting their neighbors.
All that’s missing is the white hoods, burning cross, and the scorched body of a dead pre-natal child hanging from a tree.
And for those folk who complain when the subject of homosexuality is broached mistakenly claiing there is no connection:
“It has come to our attention that a group plans to gather to protest two particular issues. First, they want to protest the work of one of our members, Jenna Tosh, who is the CEO of Planned Parenthood of Greater Orlando.”
“Second, this group may protest the fact that we ordain gay and lesbian clergy. This is something we support as an Open and Affirming congregation and as individuals.”
Two truly bastard children of a common father.
John 8:43-44 43 “Why do you misunderstand what I [JESUS] say? It is because you are unable to hear what I am saying. [You cannot bear to listen to My message; your ears are shut to My teaching.] 44 You are of your father, the devil, and it is your will to practice the lusts and gratify the desires [which are characteristic] of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a falsehood, he speaks what is natural to him, for he is a liar [himself] and the father of lies and of all that is false.”
AMP
That’s a lovely display of solidarity with Ms. Tosh and her family. Those protesters look none too pleased with their surprise attack being spoiled. I feel bad for the kids they drag along to these things; they can look forward to plenty of therapy later in their lives to undo the emotional abuse being inflicted on them now.
Live children can indeed look forward to therapy, Joan, unlike their dead siblings and cousins.
So you’re saying the crazies staging these things are clandestinely having abortions themselves, killing off the future siblings of the kids they’re dragging along to protest abortion? Can’t say that it would surprise me much.
Yeah, Jenna Tosh makes a living killing children, and it’s the parents who bring along their kids to stand up for the defenseless who are in the wrong. Makes perfect sense.
Ninek, if there’s one place on earth pro-lifers should be protesting besides abortuaries, it’s churches who condone abortion.
I feel bad for the kids they drag along to these things; they can look forward to plenty of therapy later in their lives to undo the emotional abuse being inflicted on them now.
Sure, joan. I wonder what my daughter is going to need therapy for later in her life, being a pro-life activist with me like she’s asked for my permission to be, or the fact that her dad wanted her to be killed in an abortion.
Who takes denominations like this seriously? In what way can they stand up for murder of innocents and be Christian? Like other proabort denominations, they need to be honest and move their title from “Church” to “Country Club”.
Church of Christ? yeah, sure. Slap a trademark on it and the name is yours. Totally inauthentic. And pathetic. And cruel in it’s stance on abortion/feticide.
Yes, libertybelle, I agree that we should address churches, but what this specific protest is is against a specific individual who attends the church; it’s a little stalkerish and I find it unpleasant. I find it less unpleasant to protest a church because it’s pro-abortion in general; that is not stalking an individual. Do you see the difference as I see a difference between the two? I think Abby Johnson has a lot of insight into how we can bring abortionists out of the industry and back to embracing life. I think following them home and following them to church isn’t going to win them over.
Joan, are you being deliberately dense? You think it’s ok to murder children, but you don’t think it’s ok to bring children along to events with their parents? Please. If my parents took me to events that “scarred” me and “drove” me to therapy, then you know what, I find that preferable to being killed before I was born. You know that, you’re just being deliberately ignorant, as per usual. And you abortionists are always accusing pro-lifers of getting abortions. Yes, thousands, especially if you watch the videos on Silent No More. I recently read a stat that 80% of women of a certain group regret their abortions, and 0% of women in the same group regret the birth of their children. There is nothing wrong with post-abortive women becoming pro-life. It’s called change of heart. It’s awesome.
Besides, Joan, you’ve mentioned on this blog in the past that you think you’re Catholic (because you show up at least once a year to church). Joan, why don’t you JOIN THIS CHURCH? Aren’t they more your style? Why not?
X, great comment to Joan. I know that we pro-lifers don’t always agree on tactics and strategies, but I love that we consistently embrace life.
Who takes denominations like this seriously? In what way can they stand up for murder of innocents and be Christian? Like other proabort denominations, they need to be honest and move their title from “Church” to “Country Club”.
Mary Ann, it’s interesting that pro-abortion congregations (Episcopalians, Methodists, etc. ) like this have aging congregations and are not attracting new members, while pro-life churches such as the Assemblies of God, Pentecostals, etc. are growing:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/why-conservative-churches-are-growing-49988/
One Episcopalian church in my area with a wealthy congregation said that Jesus supports abortion because his saving of the woman condemned to stoning because of adultery shows he supports women’s choices. Um, okay.
Joan IS a very Catholic name, so it’s not surprising that Joan’s background is Catholic. :) Joan, please consider going to Eucharistic Adoration some time soon. I went today. It’s so peaceful and healing.
Some people have asked if the reason for the connection between adoption and serial murder and parricide is because the kids had previously been in foster care and weren’t adopted “soon enough.” http://www.adoptionunchartedwaters.com
You will see most cases discussed about adoptee serial murderers and parricides were those who were adopted as babies shortly after they were born.
Again, the solution isn’t abortion. The solution is women becoming pregnant because they want and yearn to have babies.
Went to some kind of church like this while visiting extended family out of town. I wasn’t sure they believed in Jesus or not – and it was ON Christmas! Something about light … and the world … but a lovely Christmas tree.
It is starting to seem a little stalky. I defended the home protest thing, but I am thinking my grounds for supporting this would have to be different. If anyone wants to convince me, I’ll hear ya out.
Wow, this congregation is literally turning their backs on the word of God.
Home protests, turning up outside people’s places of worship…guys we are handing victory to the pro-choice movement on a silver platter.
They are THRILLED pro-lifers are stalking people at their home and at their church. It makes us all look crazy and they get to move the debate from killing children to “the crazy religious right stalking anyone who disagrees with them”.
SO SO SO dissapointing.
“One Episcopalian church in my area with a wealthy congregation said that Jesus supports abortion because his saving of the woman condemned to stoning because of adultery shows he supports women’s choices.”
I think I know the method behind their theology:
Step 1: Find the conclusion you wish to support.
Step 2: Open the Bible to a random page
Step 3: Say whatever is on that page supports conclusion from step 1.
Ed, what should we do when a church openly supports a women who is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Gods children?
While we’re at it, if “women’s choices” are what Jesus supports, wouldn’t that logic extend to infanticide as well? Come to think of it, shouldn’t it extend to anything, as long as it is chosen by a woman? Or does it only extend to things a woman can choose but a man can’t, which would be a convenient way to limit this logic to abortion. In any case, I highly suspect the conclusion was in place before the premises in this argument.
Giselle, The church is entitled to their beliefs, as is this woman. I am pro life, I am actively pro life but would never ever protest at someones house or church.
That aside, my point is it is a very aggressive tactic. All I can see it achieving is conformation to people who are on the fence about abortion, that pro-life activists are aggressive, intimidating and completely crazy. This sort of behaviour will do nothing to save any children from abortion, in fact, by turning people off the pro-life position this sort of behaviour will result in an extension of legalised abortion in America and many many more lives lost.
Home protests, turning up outside people’s places of worship…guys we are handing victory to the pro-choice movement on a silver platter.
Uh, where have you been, Ed? What victory would that be? The proaborts have been legally throwing dead babies on silver trays for long enough. How is peacefully picketing a church going to hurt our movement?
Totally disagree Ed.
Call them out.
They are peacefully standing with Scripture on their posters.
Turning people off from the prolife movement? puhlease
Protesting someones home and church makes you look crazy. It’s intimidating for starters.
How does it help the movement at all? how does it save a single baby when all it is is the perfect excuse to add the word “extremist” to the pro life tag.
On a personal level, I think its grossly intimidating bully boy tactics. On a wider level, it plays right into the hands of the pro choice movement. Believe me, they are DELIGHTED. The get video footage which makes the pro life movement look crazy. Anyone on the fence on the subject of abortion will think we’re all nuts.
I have to agree with Ed. In order to win, we need to attract as many people to our side as possible and this is frankly repellent.
Wow. Ed thinks the prolifers are a turn-off and look nutty for holding signs with scripture, while a “church” with proabort beliefs and people wearing immense and grotesque angel costumes are just holding to their own opinions.
Wazzup with that? How disappointing.
Holding up scripture at a church is intimidating?
I guess we should wait until we are not allowed to peacefully protest about abortion anywhere.
After all, we don’t want to appear crazy.
Not Mary-Ann, I think going to someones church to protest their beliefs makes you look crazy. And, in reference to the previous article, going to someones home and protesting makes you look dangerous.
I see no difference between holding signs with scripture and dressing as angels, I’m not religious so maybe the significance is going over my head but my point is someones home, and their places of worship should not be targets for protests in my opinion.
Like it or not, this battle is as much a Public Relations battle as anything else. As soon as large enough vocal majority believe in the right to life, then life will be protected. There are people committed to keeping abortion legal. They have lost the scientific argument, they have lost the moral argument, but hands down they are winning the PR battle.
They are the ones who come across as tolerant, as caring and as reasonable. The people sitting on the fence, the people who are not sure what to think about abortion will see nothing but intimidation and a complete lack of respect for privacy from pro-lifers who engage in this type of behaviour .
How does this sort of protest help at all? Shouldn’t we be converting the people on the fence rather than protesting the people who are committed morally and (more probably) financially to keeping abortion legal in America?
Praxedes I would find it imitating if pro-choicers found out where I go on a sunday and decided to protest. If they found my address and protested outside my home. They can say they’re just holding signs, but the fact they’ve gone to that much trouble to find out where I’d be in my spare time would be very intimidating.
I am very intimidated living in a country that has legalized the slaughter of children.
Well, unless you’re an unborn child (which I’m guessing you’re not) then I would suggest your feelings of intimidation are somewhat misplaced. :-)
No, walking through the Valley of the Shadow of Death can be very intimidating. And that’s what our country became some 40 years ago.
It isn’t necessarily parents dragging their children to rallies, prayer vigils, and demonstrations. Some children want to attend because they feel called to help save fellow children from abortion. Being pro-life can be a powerful force in a child’s life and something that shapes their future vocation. If girls can go behind their parents’ backs to get contraception and abortions, then kids should be able to stand on the sidewalk holding signs. Sometimes, it is the presence of a baby or small child that softens an abortion minded mother’s heart.
If abortion supporters want to picket outside my home or church, I would look upon it as an opportunity to dialog. I would welcome having a conversation, which could be a means to conversion. They may be afraid of our message, but I am not afraid to reach out to them.
I have much less of a problem with church protests than home protests, but I still think they don’t do a great job at getting our message across. I basically agree with Ed. And I hate, hate, hate seeing kids at these things. A lot. I wish kids weren’t brought into the abortion debate until they were quite a bit older.
NInek, I do understand what you’re saying, but I still maintain that a church is a better place to protest than even her home. They are claiming to be Christians and yet are condoning the work of one of their own who murders innocent babies. Haven’t they ever heard of “Thou Shout Not Kill?” It’s a pretty basic tenet not only in Christianity, but other religions and belief systems as well. So basically the church as now admitted that they support abortion.
Besides, the protesters are holding up signs only with Scripture. At a church, where they claim to believe that Scripture. If that’s really so bad, maybe they should stop being a church?
And personally, if I knew that there was a Klan leader at a local church in the sixties, I really hope I’d have the guts call him out. I’m not sure how long this protesting should go on, but I don’t have a problem with these pro-lifers standing peacefully in front of her church with signs with Scripture on them. Because isn’t that what Jenna Tosh is going to church to learn, supposedly? Scripture?
I maintain that the one place pro-lifers should be protesting is churches who support abortionists and their bloody work. Those who claim to serve Christ, who claim to bring the good news to the world, and yet sit on their pansy passive rumps every morning condoning the bloody, murderous work of their own deserve absolutely no peace in this life.
See this I am okay with. Church is a public place an this is a peaceful protest. I think someones home should be off limits, its private. Unless you would support a pro choicers right to picket your house?
They are the ones who come across as tolerant, as caring and as reasonable.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Try Twitter sometime. Try looking at Moronic Prochoice Quote’s blog. Do you protest clinics? Try talking to a deathscort. Facebook at all? Got any “Pro-Choice” friends or relatives? Ever engaged in debate with them? My cousin was so “tolerant”, “caring”, and “reasonable” he told me his aborted family members were “cooler” than I was and blocked me. Seriously. Guffaw.
Hi, this is the Ed who used to post a lot maybe a year ago. I’ve been lurking some but have been really busy with life, love (Wow did God ever hook me up!) and Church.
Jesus mourns for this church. He sits outside and cries. He cries because they are totally deceived by satan’s lies and people are hurting and dying and going to Hell.
They are deceived into promoting child killing. They have the blood of innocent children on their hands. If they don’t repent, they will perish in their sins and be lost forever.
They are deceived into promoting homosexuality. It doesn’t matter what you or I think about what should or should not be acceptable to God. He said it is wrong. Period.
Jesus died a horrible death and bore the sins of mankind in His body. He was the Sacrificial Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world. He died to show us the way of Love. He compels each of us to repent from our sins, deny ourselves, pick up our cross and follow Him.
But He won’t make us or force us to turn from our sins and follow Him.
We can continue to live for ourselves, die in our sins and follow satan to the Lake of Fire that was prepared for him.
It’s our choice. God is Pro Choice in this limited context.
Like He did Moses, He encourages all of us to Choose Life!
“I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.” De 30.19-20
Jack, is it really an “abortion debate?” Is that how you see it?
Because I see abortion as a clear violation of human rights.
And while my children have never participated in any sort of public protest against abortion, they see it as a human rights violation as well.
They also view slavery and the Nazi Holocaust and other human atrocities as violations of human rights. (oh, no, did I just say abortion was a human atrocity? Yes, yes I did.)
We teach our children about the evils of slavery, the Holocaust, and various regimes during school. And I’m not talking high school here, but grade and middle school. Why is teaching them about abortion (or bringing them into the “abortion debate”) different, Jack?
Xalasie I am not saying they are more compassionate, or more reasonable, clearly they’re not. They kill children. For money. I am saying they are winning the PR war. They don’t care what committed pro lifers think, they have no reason to be nice to us, they know we’re right, they know we won’t be converted.
But to the people who are sitting on the fence, the people we need on side if we are to consign abortion to a dark page in history, to these people the pro choices are the ones who are looking more caring, more reasonable and more tolerant. Exactly because of the sort of actions we see here.
Do you protest clinics?
I live in Ireland so there are no clinics to protest, but I am involved with the fight to keep abortion illegal here.
Try talking to a deathscort. Facebook at all? Got any “Pro-Choice” friends or relatives? Ever engaged in debate with them?
To be honest, I don’t bother debating abortion. I’ll happily give my opinion, I’ll happily give the scientific facts, but if someone is so deeply entrenched in denial that they still think a 12 week old foetus is not a human being then I’ve better things to be doing with my time.
Don’t know whats happened to the font! :-)
You would have a hard time telling my daughter that she can’t go to the Good Friday Prayer Vigil in front of the 3rd largest PP in the nation. She WANTS to go. She can’t wait to go and walk and pray with the THOUSANDS of us who get there year after year.
Abortion is not a “debate” in my home. It is truth. I had one. My baby died. My four children lost a sister and they know ALL about it. They “get it.” And I thank God they do because they are the next wave of prolife warriors.
I would absolutely welcome a protest outside my home!! What could proaborts possibly write on their posters? Same stupid slogans and scrawled pictures of wire hangers? Good grief. I would call the media myself and be proud that what I was doing was making a difference. BAHRING IT!!
I am not sure why but I LOVE when others come here and criticize what prolifers are doing. (as if we ALL do the same thing!!) We are doing it wrong and we look crazy and this is what will happen and that is a big, fat no no. It makes me laugh and I understand it is just another opinion.
If others do not “join” the prolife movement because of protests then I would have to ask just WHAT makes you prolife?? Your own attitude about how others feel led to make a stand or the fact that abortion kills an innocent human being and come what may you will do whatever you can to end it??!!
They are the ones who come across as tolerant, as caring and as reasonable.
Yup, jumping around dressed as vaginas really looks reasonable.
I would absolutely welcome a protest outside my home!! What could proaborts possibly write on their posters? Same stupid slogans and scrawled pictures of wire hangers? Good grief. I would call the media myself and be proud that what I was doing was making a difference. BAHRING IT!!
I wouldn’t care either. I would just go in the back and sit in the garden with Rudy and Miss Goldie. But I do see how people could think home pickets are intrusive.
To be honest, I don’t bother debating abortion. I’ll happily give my opinion, I’ll happily give the scientific facts, but if someone is so deeply entrenched in denial that they still think a 12 week old foetus is not a human being then I’ve better things to be doing with my time.
I don’t blame you.
ninek says: In fact, I’m rethinking my participation in activism and wondering how I can bring a more positive message. Even I have been more “anti” than “pro.” I haven’t spun the positive as much as I could. Many of my fellow parishioners don’t know the first thing about natural family planning. Many of my fellow parishioners couldn’t tell you the name and address of the nearest pregnancy resource center. Many of my fellow parishioners don’t know much about fetal development, how soon the heart beats, etc. Maybe this is a wake up call to me to radically change the tone of my own activism. Maybe this is a wake up to show the awesome beauty of our earliest moments, the wondrous and amazing process that is the beginning of human development.
Wonderful point about focusing on the positive. Does your parish have a Respect Life Committee? These are all the types of things my parish addresses through the RL Committee. A weekly call to Spiritual Adoption, lasting through 40 weeks of pregnancy complete with images of the unborn, is a great way to educate on stages of development. We run ours from the Annunciation through the Nativity, so it follows the development of Jesus too. The parishes in my area work closely with a PRC and do a very visible annual fundraiser. We get an enormous response every year.
It does make it easier to draw people in when it’s a positive message. But I also know it requires many different approaches to reach everyone. I was converted to pro-life from pro-choice by graphic images of abortion, so I tend to be accepting of the many different approaches pro-lifers take.
Well, unless you’re an unborn child (which I’m guessing you’re not) then I would suggest your feelings of intimidation are somewhat misplaced.
Have you ever been beat because you refused to kill your child, Ed? I’m guessing not.
Thanks, Lrning, I was just listening to a segment about Respect Life on the radio recently. We do need to step it up at my parish. Such as a big dose of Theology of the Body!
I can see both sides of pro-lifers’ stances when it comes to whether or not go to a church for a protest. My thing is, if the church in question, as a whole supports abortion, then I can see why there would be a protest. If it’s just because of ONE member, then I’m a little concerned because we don’t want to be stalkerish.
Christian Churches MUST be held accountable. They are supposed to be representing Christ’s work on Earth, and Christ said “Let the children come to Me.” but He never said ABORT them.
Carla, you’re awesome. :) I say “BAHRING IT” too. What, accuse me of being pro-life? Yeah, that’s horrible. Oooohhh I’m soooo scared. Not.
They should be called the Non-United Church of Christ. For who exactly are they united to? They are not united to God, who is Love! They are not united to Jesus, who asked us to protect the weakest among us! They are not united to each other, for they do not understand what love means! And they are not united to all preborn children since they support abortionists.
The were “united” by Fredrick III of Prussia, whose father was an atheist. They are the church of the Prussian Union. They serve the interest of the ruler of the state then as now.
http://www.ucc.org/about-us/short-course/the-german-evangelical.html
Some Lutherans left Germany in protest. They are the Missouri Synod.
This is a proabort church. It is just as damaging to unborn children and mothers as the abortion clinics. It is the place abortionists go to tell themselves that even Jesus supports killing unborn children. Fellow Christians need to call them out on their sin.
Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.—Dietrich Bonhoeffer
“Jack, is it really an “abortion debate?”Is that how you see it? Because Isee abortion as a clear violation of human rights.”
Have I seriously not been here long enough that people don’t get that I think abortion is murder and a tragedy and all the things y’all think of it? Honestly, I’m not going to put it in every post but I am not suddenly going to stop thinking of it like that. It’s a bit frustrating lol.
Anyway. It depends on the age of the kid. I wouldn’t let my kids hold graphic signs or be involved in protests until they were at least twelve or thirteen, hopefully older. My ex wanted to take our son with her sidewalk counseling when he was an infant and I pitched a fit. I don’t think its healthy or safe for my kids to be involved in stuff like that too young, based on my experiences. If other parents have different opinions for their own children, that’s fine for them whether I disagree or not. I don’t have to like it or “approve”, and they are free to think I am overprotective and paranoid. The Holocaust is a bit different, it isnt exactly happening now and my kids are not in danger from any Holocaust events. I will wait until they are much older before letting them watch Schindlers List or whatever.
Revelations 2:12-20 pretty much summarizes what’s going on in the Congregational Church:
“12 “To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
These are the words of him who has the sharp, double-edged sword. 13 I know where you live—where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, not even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city—where Satan lives.
14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality. 15 Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
17 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give that person a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to the one who receives it.
18 “To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:
These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19 I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first.
20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.”
Yes, in embracing black liberation theology they have embraced doctrines of demons (Baalam) and in embracing abortion and homosexuality they have embraced the spirit of Jezebel.
Jack, I know your feelings on abortion, but when you call it “a debate,” I feel like that relegates it to the status of just another social issue.
If you believe kids are in danger at protests, fine. But theyre not in danger from the other pro-lifers. Unless you buy into the pro-choice tripe about how abortion images are psychological traumatic for kids and shouldn’t be shown to them.
“Jack, I know your feelings on abortion, but when you call it “a debate,” I feel like that relegates it to the status of just another social issue.”
Well, it is a debate even though it’s awful that it is, and it is a social issue. On the social issue scale of importance, I rate it above animal rights, abolishing the death penalty and reducing drug addiction and related crime… and equal to stopping abuse and murders of born children, if anyone’s wondering how I rate all these tragedies. I don’t mean to lessen it by saying it’s a debate, it’s just accurate that it is.
“If you believe kids are in danger at protests, fine. But theyre not in danger from the other pro-lifers. Unless you buy into the pro-choice tripe about how abortion images are psychological traumatic for kids and shouldn’t be shown to them. ”
When I was a kid at these protests I was in physical danger from the pro-choicers, not the pro-lifers (unless you count my mom as pro-life lol). So yeah, most of the harm would come from them. The protests tend to get very emotional and can get pretty dangerous. But yeah, it’s not just pro-choicers who think that the graphic images can be damaging btw. I do think they can be, in some circumstances. I had nightmares about them as a little kid, and still now they make me sick, as in I can’t actually look at them. Actually last time I saw some in Orlando I nearly had a panic attack. Nothing else graphic affects me like that, those specific images left a huge scar. Has to do with my particular circumstances as a kid. Now, I realize that plenty of kids are perfectly fine, and it may not be a big deal in a lot of cases. But I do get tired of hearing how it’s just pro-abort propaganda that those images can cause harm. It’s not, I’ve lived it, and I highly doubt I am the only person ever in the world who is haunted by them.
Anyway, my deal with graphic images has a lot less to do about trauma and more to do with effectiveness.
For those of you who don’t like the classification of this as a debate, may I remind you there’s a post from a few days ago on this blog making fun of abortion advocates for not wanting to debate.
Like some here, I’m a little uncomfortable with picketing a person’s home. But a pro-abortion church? Absolutely! The church as a whole is very much to blame for the continuance of abortion in America, and she needs to be awakened! I love the peaceful method shown here, singing and showing pro-life scriptures. I hope some members of that particular church were awakened to the reality of what their denomination (and hence, their tithe dollars) truly supports.
A few years ago, I led a protest outside the National Education Association headquarters in my city. (our signs said things like “NEA be abortion-neutral” “There are better things to spend teachers’money on” “abortion = fewer students = unemployed teachers”) We were harassed by staff and police, although they couldn’t legally make us leave. But we also had many great conversations with teachers who were union members–several were shocked to learn that their union dues went to PP and to support abortion bills in congress.
So yes, protests like this can be very valuable!
For those of you who don’t like the classification of this as a debate
Hi there, JDC, that would be me. My name is Kel. You can call me out by name, personally, if you have a problem with my feelings on the matter. Pro-choicers can debate it all they want, but the facts show that abortion kills a human. To me, that’s like saying we should “debate” whether the sun rises in the morning. You can debate with me, I suppose, on whether or not abortion (the basic issue of right to life) should be represented by pro-lifers as a topic of debate. But I hold that the right to life is self-evident… “that all men are created equal, and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.“ And that was at the heart of what I meant by my statements.
Jack, I agree on both your points.
First of all, abortion is totally a debate. Just like slavery was a debate, civil rights was a debate… It’s healthy to have discourse about subjects. We’re on the side of truth and love! We should welcome any and all chances to talk about it. It’s a social issue of the day and while it’s one of the worst scourges of our times, it is still an issue up for debate. It’s a great word to be used. :)
And also I get where you’re coming from with the whole children at protests. I’m not sure this particular protest had graphic pictures, but I was a very sensitive kid and have had recurring nightmares for years based on a news story I caught a brief glimpse of once. Some kids can’t handle very graphic, in-your-face pictures. I’m glad I never encountered a picture of an aborted baby till I was older. I’ve seen them. I’m not against using them, but I don’t like looking at them. They almost make me physically ill. So I think it’s up to the parents to decide if their children if they are ready. Personally, I’d rather my kids grow up knowing what I believe and why but only participating when it’s their own beliefs as well.
Is discussion the same as debate? Maybe we’re not thinking of the same definition of debate here. When we speak about abortion, the facts are not up for debate. They are true.
While I will discuss abortion with anyone who wants to actually talk about it, I do not believe that the facts about human life are up for debate.
Potato, po-tah-to?
“Hi there, JDC, that would be me. My name is Kel. You can call me out by name, personally, if you have a problem with my feelings on the matter.”
Yeah, sorry about that, somehow I had it in my mind that more than one person had expressed that sentiment and I decided to include them all. No more posting while sleep-deprived for me. So Kel, I am comfortable calling you out by name.
”Is discussion the same as debate? Maybe we’re not thinking of the same definition of debate here. When we speak about abortion, the facts are not up for debate. They are true.”
I was saying there is a debate in the sense that people disagree about the rightness or wrongness of abortion.Of course we’re right and they’re wrong, but the existence of disagreement automatically causes a debate to exist.
“While I will discuss abortion with anyone who wants to actually talk about it, I do not believe that the facts about human life are up for debate.
Potato, po-tah-to?”
Kel, I basically agree with your assessment here. I don’t think there was ever that large a disagreement between us, just some poor communication.
The shame of it is that it’s even up for debate whether or not to kill our youngest and most vulnerable.
:D JDC – nope, just little old me! I post when I’m sleep deprived, too. Which, now that I think about it, may be most if the time…
That should say most “of.” See, now I can blame sleep deprivation AND autocorrect. ;)
1 Peter 4:17-19
New King James Version (NKJV)
17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 Now
“If the righteous one is scarcely saved,
Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?”[a]
19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.
These are the scary scriptures presented .The gospel is salt and light,light reveal something.1. Romans 3:10 As it is written there is none righteous no not one.
2.Romans 3:23 For all haved sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
3.Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Chris our Lord.
4.Exodus 20:13 Thou shall not murder
5.Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that appears to be right but in the end leads to DEATH.
6.Psalms 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect,converting the soul.Gods law is perfect revealing the sin nature of man
7.Genesis 1:27 So God created man kind in his own image in the image of God he created them male and female.
8.Psalms 127:3 Children are a heritage from the Lord the fruit of the womb is a reward.
9. Proverbs 16:17 There are six things The Lord hates seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes,a lying tongue,hands that shed innocent blood.
10.1John 5:3 This is love for God To obey his commandments and his commandments are not burdensome Abortion breaks Gods 6 Commandment. And yes I was there with my seven children which are not sheltered from the Truth..
2 Timothy 3:16-17
New International Version (NIV)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a]may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Those children are mine out there, and they hardly need therepy. My son at three years old figured out that children can be adopted not murdered. It was simple to him, he thought he made the whole idea up.hmmm. My children are very compassionate and want to be out there doing something about it. Train up a child in the way they should go and when he is older he will not depart from it. America needs a heart change, thats why we are out there preachin g the gospel. Come out for yourself and see what we do.
Kel, yeah we probably do have different definition of debates because I believe abortion the facts of abortion to be true. I was on debate team in college and high school (and was debate partners with my now husband :D) and so I probably have a very different view of debate.
The exposure I’ve had to what I call debate doesn’t call into question the truth, but rather is a formal argumentation between two view points. And while I 100% agree that abortion is wrong and evil, the other side does not. Therefore, we are in a debate. The other side makes arguments for abortion; I make arguments against. People debate God and religion and marijuana use and all sorts of things. The fact that a truth is being debated does not necessarily call into question the veracity of the topic at hand, but rather allows the side of Truth to lay out the reasonable arguments for all to see.
Does that make sense? :)
Makes sense when Jesus is the standard and absolute truth comes from Gods holy word.If God said it that settles it the only debate or conflict you have is with God,the bible says every knee will bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, .The bible also says The mountains melt like wax before the LORD, before the Lord of all the earth.Knowledge puffs up but the fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom and understanding is knowing what is good and what is evil.