Scientists discover aborted baby cells living in mothers’ brains
Scientific American termed the research findings another way: “Scientists discover children’s cells living in mothers’ brains.”
But I wanted to drive home a touching point: Mothers who terminate their pregnancies apparently don’t completely rid themselves of their babies. The cells of murdered children live on inside their mothers to help – or perhaps – hurt them:
Cells may migrate through the placenta between the mother and the fetus, taking up residence in many organs of the body including the lung, thyroid muscle, liver, heart, kidney and skin. These may have a broad range of impacts, from tissue repair and cancer prevention to sparking immune disorders.
It is remarkable that it is so common for cells from one individual to integrate into the tissues of another distinct person. We are accustomed to thinking of ourselves as singular autonomous individuals, and these foreign cells seem to belie that notion, and suggest that most people carry remnants of other individuals.
I need to stop and note that this politically incorrect article correctly defines preborn babies as “distinct person(s),” “people,” and “individuals.” Moving on….
As remarkable as this may be, stunning results from a new study show that cells from other individuals are also found in the brain. In this study, male cells were found in the brains of women and had been living there, in some cases, for several decades. What impact they may have had is now only a guess, but this study revealed that these cells were less common in the brains of women who had Alzheimer’s disease, suggesting they may be related to the health of the brain.
We all consider our bodies to be our own unique being, so the notion that we may harbor cells from other people in our bodies seems strange. Even stranger is the thought that, although we certainly consider our actions and decisions as originating in the activity of our own individual brains, cells from other individuals are living and functioning in that complex structure….
They examined the brains of deceased women for the presence of cells containing the male “Y” chromosome. They found such cells in more than 60 percent of the brains and in multiple brain regions. Since Alzheimer’s disease is more common in women who have had multiple pregnancies, they suspected that the number of fetal cells would be greater in women with AD compared to those who had no evidence for neurological disease. The results were precisely the opposite: there were fewer fetal-derived cells in women with Alzheimer’s. The reasons are unclear.
A post-abortive mother who gives any of this much thought will reach either distressing or comforting conclusions, depending on whether she has made peace.
[Photo via Jezebel]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I am comforted by this information. The thought that my little child, whose life I had abruptly ended, is still part of me, along with his or her living half siblings, gives me a measure of peace.
Barb, thanks for sharing. That was how I anticipated post-abortive mothers who have made peace would receive the news but wasn’t positive.
“…the cells of murdered children live on …” That terminology, whereas it may be factual, is very injurious to those who have not yet come to terms with their abortions AND to those who have.
Note how Barb writes “my little child, whose life I had abruptly ended…” while writing truth, does not write subjectively and does not use a word that can be interpreted with many layers – 1st degree, 2nd degree, with malice, without…etc.
I would ask that when writing about aborted babies, that the author be mindful that those who are working towards healing from their abortions oft times do not feel safe in doing so because of such writing.
Those of us who are well aware that our aborted children are no more, do not really need to be reminded that our children were murdered by us.
Thank you.
Thank you for this Jill. I am comforted by it honestly.
Lee,
You will need to speak for yourself.
As a post abortive mom I remind myself daily. Nobody needs to do that “for me.”
Not every written piece is intended to hurt or shame post abortive women. And it doesn’t help to assume it.
http://www.rachelsvineyard.org
Off topic but also new today in baby research: newborn infants demonstrate that while unborn they learned language sounds from listening to their mothers.
Note the liberal use of the word “baby” in this press release. Even when “fetus” is used it is followed by the word “mother”.
http://www.washington.edu/news/2013/01/02/while-in-womb-babies-begin-learning-language-from-their-mothers/
This is truly amazing. No mother ever forgets her child even if the child is lost through abortion or miscarriage. Maybe this explains why. No one wants to hurt post abortive men and women but discarding the truth is not helpful. As the post abortive women her can attest, the truth will set you free. Also there is forgiveness and healing available. the hardest part is forgiving yourself.
These microchimerisms, as they are called, are relatively recent findings whose full biological significance is poorly understood. The baby’s cells are found clustered around tumors and may well aid in the maternal immune system’s functioning.
As a molecular biologist, I suspect that the fetal cells play some role in an evolutionary advantage, which means great benefit to the mother.
As a Catholic biologist, if there is a benefit from these cells, their continued presence and functioning in post-abortive women seems to me to be a sign from a loving and merciful God, and are a window into the eternal reality that just as the baby gives physiological aid to the mother after the abortion has long since passed, it also prays and intercedes before the Father in Heaven for its mother, longing for the day when they will be reunited.
Stay tuned to this field of research. I think the next ten years are going to be very illuminating.
Carla – I do speak and write for myself. It is injurious for women and men who are post abortive to read or hear the word murder (such a subjective word) used when speaking of their aborted child.
I agree that as a post abortive woman one is reminded daily of their abortion. I try to educate those who use words such as abortion or unforgiveable sin (in regards to abortion) that there are other words to use that do not injure. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church for a good starting place as to how to address abortion- “a grave and moral offense …” but no where does it use the term “murder”.
p.s. I am very aware of Rachel’s Vineyard – actually a team member for the last eleven plus years. And perhaps that is why I try to assist in explaining that the word murder is injurious – having sat and listened to the women and men’s stories regarding their journey to healing. Thank you for the reference.
I think what is injurious, is the pro-abortion selling point that “it’s not really human” “it’s not really alive” “it’s just a clump of cells” or “products of conception” and the sickly video that says “you are a good woman” for aborting your baby.
The greater guilt is on the abortion industry, which tries to soften up the reality of what abortion is because telling women the bold faced truth isn’t going to get them any new customers. If we don’t tell the next generation that abortion IS murder, then we let the abortion industry continue to sell their “product” any way they can. It was a deliberate decision to use the word “choice” to sell abortion. It’s so vague, so very UN-murderous.
I had a part in the murder of my child. I wish my ob/gyn had told me the bitter truth: “I advise you to murder your child” because you know what? All that vague feel-good vocabulary cost my little one’s life. And it’s too high a price to pay. Use the word murder. Save some lives.
“Stay tuned to this field of research. I think the next ten years are going to be very illuminating” – I agree, this may lead to new areas of treatment for various brain illnesses or at least assist in understanding more of the causes. Science will yield yet more benefits from study and testing in this area.
“it also prays and intercedes before the Father in Heaven for its mother” – and this is the exact opposite.
Lee,
As you know, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issues official teaching for the Catholic Church. In 1974, it issued the Declaration on Procured Abortion, and DOES use the word “murder”, by invoking the long history of the application of that word to abortion by the Church. Here’s the link to the document (a brief, but worthy read), and some excerpts:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19741118_declaration-abortion_en.html
6. The tradition of the Church has always held that human life must be protected and favored from the beginning, just as at the various stages of its development. Opposing the morals of the Greco-Roman world, the Church of the first centuries insisted on the difference that exists on this point between those morals and Christian morals. In the Didache it is clearly said: “You shall not kill by abortion the fruit of the womb and you shall not murder the infant already born.”[6] Athenagoras emphasizes that Christians consider as murderers those women who take medicines to procure an abortion; he condemns the killers of children, including those still living in their mother’s womb, “where they are already the object of the care of divine Providence.” Tertullian did not always perhaps use the same language; he nevertheless clearly affirms the essential principle: “To prevent birth is anticipated murder; it makes little difference whether one destroys a life already born or does away with it in its nascent stage. The one who will be a man is already one.”[8]
[9] The Decree of Gratian reported the following words of Pope Stephen V: “That person is a murderer who causes to perish by abortion what has been conceived.”[10]
Most recently, the Second Vatican Council, presided over by Paul VI, has most severely condemned abortion: “Life must be safeguarded with extreme care from conception; abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.”[17] The same Paul VI, speaking on this subject on many occasions, has not been afraid to declare that this teaching of the Church “has not changed and is unchangeable.”[18]
From a moral point of view this is certain: even if a doubt existed concerning whether the fruit of conception is already a human person, it is objectively a grave sin to dare to risk murder. “The one who will be a man is already one.”[20]
Even more, in the present case, this very renunciation seems at the very least to admit that the legislator no longer considers abortion a crime against human life, since murder is still always severely punished. It is true that it is not the task of the law to choose between points of view or to impose one rather than another. But the life of the child takes precedence over all opinions. One cannot invoke freedom of thought to destroy this life.
The Supreme Pontiff Pope Paul VI, in an audience granted to the undersigned Secretary of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on June 28, 1974, has ratified this Declaration on Procured Abortion and has confirmed it and ordered it to be promulgated.
Given in Rome, at the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on November 18, the Commemoration of the Dedication of the Basilicas of Saints Peter and Paul, in the year 1974.
I have been thinking of this all day.
It makes me happy.
Lee,
I am a RV facilitator as well. We paid someone to murder our children. There is no denying that. It is truth. And the truth shall set us free.
What was the most hurtful to me and kept me silent for 8 years after my abortion?
All of the judgmental Christians who condemned me instead of offering me the help and hope of forgiveness in Christ.
PS I am not Catholic.
Carla,
You’re beautiful! :-)
Lee,
I don’t call the mothers murderers, but the abortionists are more than murderers, they’re profiteers. However, the Catholic Church in every age, in her theologians, Doctors, Fathers, saints, popes and councils, has called abortion murder.
It’s also not the worst sin, nor is it unforgivable. The only unforgivable sin is the worst sin: blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The Church teaches us that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the denial of God’s ability to save us. If you haven’t fully reconciled, stick with Carla. She’ll get you there with an abundance of love.
:) Man I have missed ya Gerry!!
The act of abortion is murder.
And no I do not call post abortive mothers murderers either.
We can separate the act from the person.
I see moms (above) putting the truth ahead of their own feelings. That is praiseworthy, honorable and humanity at its best.
Gerard, your first post brought tears to my eyes. My friends babies are in heaven praying for them. Waiting for them to come to God’s forgiving arms. Makes me weep.
Even though both of my babies are living, I too find great joy in the thought my boys are always with me. They grow up too fast. But we mothers always carry our children with us, physically and in our hearts.
Gerry and Carla= awesome
GREAT article…kinda sheds more light on one of the facets of The Assumption, eh? And since I understand that modern ebryology shows that children also carry cells of their mothers within them for their lifetime, new light is shed on the doctrine of The Immaculate Conception too. God is indeed great.
This is comfortng news for another large group of women- those who have lost children through miscarriage. Myself, I’ve lost three children via miscarriage, and I miss them and hope to hold them one day. What a joy to know that we are still connected this way.
This article underlines the irreplaceable value of motherhood in general. In a time when some people are trying to redefine the family unit, biology still confirms the unique role and power of mothers.
I’ve heard this idea before, though not in so much detail. Thanks for posting.
Thank you for this fascinating article.
(Mother of two)
Lee,
I love your heart for post abortive women. I love your courage in standing up for them and not wanting them to be hurt any more than they already have been.
We share the same passion.
ALL of my children are with me.
The one I aborted, the two lost to miscarriage and the four I raise now.
Thank you Lord.
I am beyond blessed.
This gives me great comfort! I have nine babies, only five of whom live with me here. I know they exist in fact in Heaven. It’s wonderful to feel that I also still carry them physically in some way! It’s also nice to see science catching on that pregnancy is good for women, beneficial physically to them in this marvelous way! Only God could have arranged this universe!
Another reason to venerate the Mother of God. She must have had the cells of the Son of God, the Word, living in her body even after His birth. She is truly the living Icon, the tabernacle of the Most High.
Thank you Carla – my passion is post abortive men and women. I have a hard time tolerating those who yell out murder or murderer to those walking into an abortion mill.
Gerard – the CCC does not use the term murder – the bible which is quoted in your statement stands.
Your murdered children is a very ugly truth – and there are other ways of writing those words without being injurious.
Carla – maybe we will meet up at one of the RV leadership conferences … 2014?
Lee, The CCC is not the only authoritative magisterial document. The Declaration on Procured Abortion is an equally weighty document and source of authoritative teaching. You make a serious, SERIOUS error bysuggesting to people that the CCC somehow trumps the constant witness of the Church through the ages.
It doesn’t.
Ever.
The teaching of the Church is an organic unity. The fact that the Congregation eproduced a document that quotes the word murder from every age should be a sober reminder of this. assumes umm a terriblle burden by misleading people. It is the ENTIRE body of magisterial teaching that is enjoined on the faithful.
Gerard – The CCC lays out what the Church teaches. All the Magisterial documents contribute to the teaching of the faith. I have no problem with that. There are also encyclicals written by Popes that speak to abortion. No where have I, as you have charged, do a great disservice as to what the Church teaches -
My point is … I do not like (and that is my right) to read or hear of aborted children as murdered children. Murder is a subjective word – as I wrote in my first piece on my dislike of that terminology.
If I say that a baby is murdered by abortion and set it to a jury, a jury might find that because the mother was forced, she is not guilty of murder. Therefore, by the law’s definition, she is not guilty of murder. She is innocent of murdering her baby.
If I say that a post abortive mother aborted her baby of her own free will and set that before a jury, then that mother may be found guilty.
In both cases, the child is dead. The mother is wounded as is the father.
I do not speak of my murdered (subjective) child – I do however, speak of my aborted (dead, fact of the abortion procedure) child.
Can you see what I am getting at? I sure do hope so –
If you wish to call me a murderer, go right ahead. I chose to let God be my judge.
I chose, Gerard, to be gentle, to use words of reconciling instead of shame and blame, for as I know, all too well, there are numerous reason why one has an abortion.
I love the words of Blessed Pope John Paul II in his encyclical. We use it on our Rachel’s Vineyard retreats.
ENCYCLICAL LETTER EVANGELIUM VITAE
Addressed by the Supreme PontiffJohn Paul IIto the BishopsPriests and DeaconsMen and Women ReligiousLay Faithfuland All People of Good WillON THE VALUE AND INVIOLABILITY OF HUMAN LIFE
I would now like to say a special word to women who have had an abortion. The Church is aware of the many factors which may have influenced your decision, and she does not doubt that in many cases it was a painful and even shattering decision. The wound in your heart may not yet have healed. Certainly what happened was and remains terribly wrong. But do not give in to discouragement and do not lose hope. Try rather to understand what happened and face it honestly. If you have not already done so, give yourselves over with humility and trust to repentance. The Father of mercies is ready to give you his forgiveness and his peace in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. To the same Father and to his mercy you can with sure hope entrust your child. With the friendly and expert help and advice of other people, and as a result of your own painful experience, you can be among the most eloquent defenders of everyone’s right to life. Through your commitment to life, whether by accepting the birth of other children or by welcoming and caring for those most in need of someone to be close to them, you will become promoters of a new way of looking at human life.
Yes, Lee, I do get what you are saying. As I have said, it is the abortionist who is the murderer. But what you prefer, no matter yoursubjective experience, pain, or predilection, the Church in every age has called it murder, which is why it carries the penalty of automatic excommunication, and leaves readmittance authority with the local bishop.
We often end with watered down teachings when people’s pain and guilt dictate the description of the sin, which gets softened in proportion to the guilt or well-intentioned compassion. Your words in this thread could easily have misled a less informed Catholic or non-Catholic regarding the Church teaching that abortion is murder. Yes, there are many such passages that call the sinner home. But the Church does not renounce her 2,000 year teaching. My duty is to bring clarity when there is the chance of misunderstanding.
Lee,
I have a very hard time at those yelling, “murderer or whore or slut or baby killer” at women going into an abortion mill too!! SHAME ON THEM! It is a good thing for them they do not do it on my watch at Planned Parenthood!! Those who do that are WRONG!
I paid someone to murder my first child. That is truth. There is no getting around it.
To those that wish to call me a murderer that is to them to decide. I am what He says I am. His daughter. My abortion does not define me. It is something I have done. It is not who I am.
An RV conference would be grand!! :)
Gerard – with all due respect, you are not a theologian nor my spiritual director nor my priest.
Go back to my first comment – you went way off track … I said I FELT it was injurious to me and from talking with others, found it injurious to them when the words “murdered children/babies” is written.
That’s all – Gerard – nothing more –
Carla – it’s a date! And you are so correct, my abortion does not define me -n or anyone else, either!
Lee,
Also respectfully, I was addressing your initial rationale for your approach, which was a misleading claim that could have given the impression that the Catholic Church does not identify abortion with murder.
It does, and has, in every age.
As for your polite brush-off that I am not a theologian or priest, I don’t need to be. EVERY Catholic who has been confirmed is called to study the faith a bear witness to it. That said, I studied graduate divinity in a Catholic seminary ( classmate of Michael Voris), and am well along in an MA Theology program. But again, it is the call of every Catholic to bear witness to the truths of the faith.
No, you are not defined by what you did. Your abortionist is. But I won’t be barked someone claims that I lack authority to teach the truth of the faith. All Catholics have that authority.
So, Gerard…I too, am a confirmed Catholic. I have notn write anything that is not in line with the Church’s teachings.
Please quote my initial post and show me where I involve the Catholic Church. . .or any of my subsequent posts in this topic. I do point to the catechism and quote from Blessed John Paul II.
Having gone to seminary and now working on your MA in theology is wonderful. I am not a Michael Voris fan, though … and thankfully, I do not have to be his fan to be a faithful, God loving Catholic!
You inferred that I implied things that I did not. If I am not defined by what my abortion did, then why is my abortionist defined by what he did? You can’t have it both ways, Gerard. I know that my child died in my abortion. That is a fact – murderer? Let’s leave that up to God’s judgement.
Let me ask you something. And I wish for you to take some time and answer honestly. The Catholic Church teaches that sexual intercourse outside of marriage is fornication. It also teaches that if a person is married and has sexual intercourse with a person other than their spouse, they commit adultery.
If you agree with the statements above, would you tell someone who was married and raped, that they were an adulterer? If the person was not married, would you tell the person who was raped that they were a fornicator?
I await your reply.
Lee’ if I may be so bold as to respond ….Raped would certainly not apply since sin would imply consent.
truthSeeker – I agree with you – but where does it say that a person has to give consent (in any Church doctrine or the CCC or the bible) in order for fornication to occur?
That’s a really odd analogy Lee, I’m not sure where you are going with that. Just to warm you it has the potential to be quite painful and offensive.
*warn, since it won’t let me edit for some reason.
JackBorsch – Why is it an odd analogy?
Gerard has insisted that abortion is murder by quoting different Church documents.
Gerard has accused me of leading people astray about what the Church teaches because I pointed to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which does not refer to abortion as murder, but says that it is a grave and moral offense against God.
I am a post abortive woman. I know that my abortion caused the death of my child. I do not like to hear or read the term, murdered children in reference to aborted children.
That is offensive to me as well as painful.
There are ways to write about things without being offensive (and I mean NO offense) or pain (and I mean NO pain) to those of us who have been raped.
As I was thinking further on Gerard and my inter-posting I was thinking about other crimes that a woman is often blamed for – and the horrific death of the woman who was gang raped in India came to mind.
We never know the circumstances of someone’s “crime” or “sin”. I believe using the word murder (with all its layers) in conjunction with our aborted babies becomes judgmental and injurious to those who have aborted their sons or daughters.
Maybe I don’t understand how you are comparing getting raped to getting an abortion. Are you either implying that sometimes people are responsible for being raped (which I don’t agree with or are you implying that sometimes (or always?) people aren’t responsible for getting an abortion (which I do agree with, there can be a lot of coercion and lack of informed consent that certainly removes culpability there).
I guess I just think it’s odd because I don’t understand how you are comparing the two situations. And I don’t think that you should consider someone a fornicator or cheater because they were abused, that hurts.
Lee: “would you tell someone who was married and raped, that they were an adulterer?”
Adultery is a sin. My understanding is that in order to commit any sin a person must do so with both full knowledge that what they are doing is sinful and do so with full consent of the will. In other words…say to themselves…I know this is a sin. But I don’t care. I’m doing it any away. And then do it. These conditions do not apply in any fashion for the case of a raped married person.
I find your suggestion that any rape victim was somehow at fault quite distasteful.
Lee,
Is a raped woman an adulteress? Your question reflects an inadequate understanding of what constitutes sin. So let’s take it methodically.
Sex is the act, in objective terms. If she has sex willingly with her husband it is a virtuous act. If she refuses sex for whatever reason (having her period, cramps, illness, etc.) and her husband beats her and forces himself upon her over her sustained objections, then she is not having sex with her husband, but is having her body forcibly being used against her will. She is being raped by her husband.
I begin with rape in marriage to show the distinction clearly. If a stranger does this to the woman, it is no less an act of rape.
In order for the woman to be guilty of adultery, she must consent to the sex with the stranger. Just as there is no virtue in the sex act when raped by her husband, there is no sin in the act when raped by a stranger.
Sin and virtue require the full consent of the will after contemplating the nature of the act with sufficient thought. That is how the Church teaches about sin and the three requirements that must be present in order for a mortal sin to be subjectively imputed to an individual’s act:
1.Serious matter
2.Sufficient reflection
3.Full consent of the will.
When a woman contracts an abortion, she is objectively guilty of having had her child murdered.
There are usually several coercive factors at play that mitigate regarding how much reflection and consent of the will many womare engage in, so that there are varying degrees of subjective guilt imputed to the woman.
Nevertheless, the Church teaches that if a woman is aware of the penalty, then the objective nature of the act of abortion (murder) merits her an automatic excommunication. If you have been here long enough, or at my blog long enough, then you would know that I am a great defender of post-abortive women. Carla would tell you as much.
However, I cannot stand by and watch anyone suggest that the Church does not call abortion murder, even if that suggestion flows from the present state of your post-abortive agony. You may engage in your preferred language all you want, without comment from me, but when you offer up the suggestion that the Catholic Church does not call abortion murder, and point selectively to only one of many magisterial sources, then I am compelled to correct the mistaken impression you give others.
This latest analogy of rape and adultery indicates how unresolved pain can cloud reason and lead to erroneous theological reflection.
Gerard…you may say anything you wish. I do not have agony from my abortion. God has forgiven me and there is nothing you can do to change that.
You take the position that I refuse to say that the Church says abortion is murder. How you came to that conclusion is beyond me. You want me to agree with you and I have not disagreed but have stated the following …
I have simply stated that using the words in that manner is injurious. The Catholic Church knows that. In her wisdom she does not use the word
Murder when writing on abortion in the catechism.
You don’t like that fact. Too darn bad.
You may continue to be a sledgehammer with your righteousness OR you can humble yourself and LISTEN to people who have experienced abortion and perhaps help them along their healing journey.
Carla wrote that she came to her healing by those who offered her hope and healing not those who used injurious language even though she was well aware of what she had done.
The reason I wrote about rape was to hopefully get you to see how language…even if it correct…is not always suitable.
My prayer is that you can be gentle with yourself so as to be gentle with others.
Lee,
Gentle and firm go together quite nicely. Since you claim that you are not in a present state of distress over your abortion, then I’ll be even more direct.
First, I know of few men who have been more supportive of post-abortive women than myself. I often consult friends who have healed from their abortions when I write. So your assessment of me, like your presentation of the Church’s teaching is way off base.
You have stated clearly on this thread that YOU don’t like the word murder.
Fine.
Then you held out the CCC’s language as back-up. That’s what I zeroed in on. True the CCC doesn’t say murder. It says “abominable crime” and then links to the code of canon law that states the crime to be so abominable that the woman is automatically cut off from the Body of Christ in Heaven and on earth until she repents and confesses to a bishop, or a priest if the bishop delegates that authority.
Frankly, you sound rather silly in trying to make such a distinction. In the meantime, the Church both simultaneously calls abortion murder, a grave offense, an abominable crime and calls the woman to repentance.
As for your earlier claim that I can’t have it both ways regarding calling the abortionist a murderer and not the mother, sure I can.
The abortionist IS a murderer( also called to repentance), and if you suggest otherwise you need help.
Many women, most in fact, have unrelenting coercion brought to bear on them by family, friends, and physicians. Many are lied to by physicians and nurses about the developmental status and human identity of the baby. That mitigates the subjective imputation of murder where the mother is concerned. If you deny that, you need help.
So, yes, the woman is not considered a murderer by the Church if she is not aware of the serious nature of the act (mitigated by doctors” lies), ifs he does not give sufficient reflection ( mitigated by coercion), or full consent of the wil (mitigated by coercion). Further, she does not incur the excommunication if she is unaware of the penalty.
The abortionist, however, has studied embryology and watches the death struggle of the baby on the sonogram. they each make a cold and detached decision to murder every child on their exam table. They reject the Hippocratic two-patient model of obstetric medicine. Yes, they know what it is they do.
As for your saccharine lesson in humility, I remind you of two quotes that go well together.
“Humility is truth” ~ St. Thomas Aquinas
“In its purest form, truth is not a polite tap on the shoulder; it is a howling reproach.” ~ Ted Koppel, 1987 Commencement Address, Duke University.
Going just a bit further, there is no one-size-fits all approach to anything. How you do your outreach is based on your best judgment. However, I can read, and did read your posts on this thread. You were soundly corrected and switched the bizarre suggestion that I can’t have it both ways on ascribing murder.
Then you switched to the bizarre analogy of rape and adultery. Having been soundly corrected,yet again, you lamely retreat from that one and engage in personal attacks on me, when all I did was correct your presentation of what the Church teaches.
It is you, who suffer from pride, and hide behind your abortion when you are corrected. You’ll find that doesn’t work with me.
What do you call the taking of an innocent life? It is murder and that is what is done in an abortion. For a person to know that they have been guilty of this is terribly humbling. But God forgives and so there is trust in His mercy and the knowledge makes a person know what they are capable of without His grace. Thus they can never consider themselves better than another.
The little ones had soul and body. Their soul lives on in eternity. They are present.
I’m not Catholic but I do appreciate the Catholic Church’s stand on this issue.
If taking a human life unlawfully is murder then those who do it are murderers. While murder is a sin it’s not an unforgivable one. There are steps to take in order to be forgiven: Admit that a sin was committed, stop the sinning, ask for forgiveness, accept the consequences for our action then live like we’ve been forgiven.
Females are not the only ones guilty of this sin. Those of us males who had any part in abortion, whether it was done by a doctor surgically or whether the woman used a chemical or mechanical abortifacient, are just as guilty of this sin as if they had done it themselves. I condoned my wife’s use of the IUD early in our marriage, now forty some years latter I have asked our creator for forgiveness. I often wonder about the lives that perished over the three years that my wife used this evil device? I am a forgiven murderer.
I find the information here to be very intriguing. No wonder there is normally such a strong bond between the mother and her children. Maybe the presence of those cells in her brain tell her to protect them from harm?
Another poster wrote: “Another reason to venerate the Mother of God. She must have had the cells of the Son of God, the Word, living in her body even after His birth. She is truly the living Icon, the tabernacle of the Most High.”
Please put your faith in the living God, dear one. Only He is worthy of your prayers. Thank you for your stand against abortion.
Remember, at Jesus’ birth, Simeon in the temple proclaimed to Mary that Jesus’ words would pierce her soul.
Three times Jesus stood His ground against venerating Mary, the mother of Jesus. He rebuked a woman who lauded Mary, saying “Blessed rather are those hear the word of God and obey it.”
Another time Mary and her other sons waited for Jesus to finish speaking to the crowd. Jesus told her that those who followed Him were now his family.
When Jesus was at the age of his bar mitzvah and He was in the temple, his parents were worried about his whereabouts. He told his parents He must be about His Father’s will.
When you place Mary this highly, you are showing yourself at odds with God’s Ten Commandments where He proclaimed that there should be no other gods before Him. Mary is not part of the Holy Trinity and should not be prayed to. She would be griefstricken and heartsick beyond words if she were aware how she has been venerated above God the Son. Thank God that she is unaware of this and is protected by the Father from this in her eternal rest in heaven.
Lee:
“You may continue to be a sledgehammer with your righteousness OR you can humble yourself and LISTEN to people who have experienced abortion and perhaps help them along their healing journey.”
Dr. Nadal:
“It is you, who suffer from pride and hide behind your abortion when you are corrected. You’ll find that doesn’t work with me.”
So you see, Lee, that you can have a healing journey, as long as it’s narrated and approved by Dr. Nadal. Anything else just “doesn’t work” with him. And he is the final arbiter of your healing journey, you know. You, a mere woman with actual experience, are arrogant and ignorant and completely deserving of his condescension. You’ve been soundly corrected, my dear. Go and sin no more.
Pride.
Indeed.
Dear, ChristianWomanUSA:
You are so gentle…God Bless you.
Yeah, Jesus was rather harsh with that woman – Mary. Why? One could do a whole study on it. Perhaps He put His love for you above her needs and wants.
Also note the following:
Venerate Definition 1) to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference.
Merely admiring the Lord Jesus is not something I strive for no matter how respectful or reverential.
Luke 1:42 “In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!”
Luke 1:48 “From now on all generations will call me [Mary] blessed,”
Jesus is so much more than merely blessed.
WOW. As I sit here a read through these threads I am astounded at how we go at each other. I, too, a post abortive women do not like the reference of being labeled a murderer Even though that’s what happened to my child. I know I’m forgiven and have walked through healing but nonetheless it still is painful to hear the harshness of the word. After all Jesus said if you hate someone it’s as though you’ve murdered them. I believe we need to call sin a sin and not sugar coat it but we also need to do so in love And choose our words carefully.
It pains me greatly to see people who are pro life go at each other. My prayer is that we would be united in our efforts and stop treating each other with such contempt.
Gerard: Since according to your credentials you seem to be headed into some form of ministry or perhaps you are already in that place; you may want to rethink the way you come across to others. I’m sure your heart is right and loving but you have not come across that way. You seemed to come across very argumentative, pompous and unloving and I’m sure you didn’t intend to.
DJ – Welcome…you will find the mods and regulars here are among the very best.
“It pains me greatly to see people who are pro life go at each other. My prayer is that we would be united in our efforts and stop treating each other with such contempt.”
From your lips to God’s ear. However, the pro-life world is very large and not every sector is of the forever kind and gentle philosophy. Things sometimes get messy as we work out the details together. Good people often disagree on prolife strategery. People sometimes loose it. Sometimes they say unwise things or convey it in a clumsy way. Misunderstandings are a common hazard in any blog comment section. Generally, peoples better natures come back out after a vigorous exchange has had time to cool.