50 churches within 2 miles of “Texas Gosnell’s” late-term abortion clinic (Osteen’s – 3 miles)
Click to enlarge…
The worst part of this poster, in my opinion, is the fine print at the bottom: “This child was murdered in Texas by abortionist Douglas Karpen within 2 miles of 50 visible churches.”
Furthermore, Lakewood Church, which boasts a weekly attendance of 43,500, and where Joel Osteen is pastor, is located only three miles from this Houston clinic.
This is just one example. Were snapshots taken inside every abortion clinic in America we would see photos as bloody and graphic as these, although many of the babies would be so small and ground to a pulp they wouldn’t be recognizable. As if that makes a difference.
I’m willing to bet every abortion clinic in America has churches right around the corner, totally ignoring the plight of babies hacked to death – within singing distance. It’s maddening.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I know very little about Joel Osteen. I’ve seen that picture on some book covers in the grocery store.
So, he’s the pastor of a mega-church in Houston. Is he pro-life? Has he preached about social justice and our need to protect the innocent victims from those who profit by killing?
I’ll do some googling. But if anyone knows firsthand…..
Joel Osteen is not a True Christian nor is his Church a real Christian Church. Joel Osteen leads people away from Christ.
As a pro life educator I have always said that churches are my toughest customers. Most just want to ignore the subject. They are too afraid of losing their tax exempt status. Shame on them.
I have only briefly watched Osteen but that perpetual smile of his reminds me of a serpent. I have never liked the man. He makes me think of Jimmy Swaggart, a disgraced hustler and showman who for raked in millions posing as a preacher.
Ok, Osten’s not the point.
There are 50 Churches SURROUNDING this abortion clinic. Not enough of those so-called Christians within those so-called Church’s care about ending the murder of their neighbors in the womb. “Christians” don’t care about standing up for the needs of their neighbors. They don’t want to be put out. Just glad I have a Pope who can at least make it known where were SUPPOSED to be standing.
Osteen is ONE example of the hundreds of millions of “Christians” JUST LIKE HIM.
I know it’s hard to speak up. I live in a very conservative area right now. You would think they welcome any dialog regarding ending abortion, but instead I have gotten scolded by those same ‘CHRISTIANS,’ telling me abortion is not something you talk about in public. They don’t want to hear it, they don’t want to see it, they want to pretend that man lying battered and beaten on the road isn’t event there. Those Christians have the blood of babies on their hands, and they are fully complicit in the horrific manslaughter of millions and millions of fetuses.
AHA does great work.
Unfortunately, the time is running short in which we be able to express ourselves with any honest dialog concerning this issue. These proponents of abortion, these “Chrisians,” have decided not only not to talk about it, but that no one else can either. Lest their complicit silence, while some one else is talking about, somehow reveal how far they truly are from Christ, how anti-Christian they really are. That aborted baby is Christ on the Cross, and they are the ones who put him there.
Osteen is just one of many, many elected mouthpieces, look at the bigger numbers and you’ll get to the heart of the issue. It’s like blaming the politics for racism.
I was surprised, because before I moved to a conservative Christian area, i was living in Los Angeles, where people were much more comfortable by the use of the word ‘aboriton.’
It seams area of plight are more receptive to the truth.
The reason the poster maker (AHA’s Russell Hunter) put “50 visible churches” was to distinguish between organizations calling themselves churches and the true Bride of Christ which is rising up against both the practice of human abortion and the apathy concerning it.
-A//A
Dear CityOfAngels.US i agree with you. Grant your the man also. I bet less then 3% of people who call them Christ followers really are. The true Church, the Bride of Christ is moving and doing the work of the Church. The so Called “American Church” is against us.
Are you saying the churches should relocate? What do you expect their congregations to do? Put together a lynching party?
The Enemy is the accuser of the Bretheren. Let’s back off Christian leaders and churches and inter-denominational squibbles. That’s exactly what Satan is after. If we argue about doctrine and other things like this story, it divides us as Christians and Jesus spoke very clearly to that. Remember YOU are the church. YOU are the “righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.” And to the gal that doesn’t like Pastor Osteen’s smile, what would you rather he do? What are WE, ME, I – what am I doing to defend life today? Thanks for reading.
joan is right. Are you urging civil disobedience or something? What would it matter if there were 100 churches all adjoining the clinic?
If Karpen is the Gosnell of Texas and has ‘murdered a child’, why hasn’t he been charged with breaking any laws? Could it be because he hasn’t?
This makes me so outrageously sad and angry that I am havin trouble processing it. This should absolutely NOT be legal. The right to have sex and live unencumbered should NOT trump the right to remain intact and alive. GROSS GROSS GROSS violation of the most BASIC if human rights. My nearly five year old saw this picture and I had to explain it in the best way I could. Her poor little face was crushed and clearly confused. I was nursing her baby brother at the time. She put her hand on his head and said “I’m glad you had my brother.” How many MILLIONS of people are missing siblings due to abortion!? So supremely unfair. It MUST stop. People who absolutely don’t want children should not engage in activities that produce children. Period. And if they do, well, their bad. Adoption or parenting should be the only legal choices. Never abortion.
On the Piers Morgan show, Osteen was asked his views on abortion and capital punishment:Joel Osteen:
Piers asks Osteen to clarify and Osteen says:
I looked at the sites for the top 100 churches in attendance, and only one, which is in San Diego, has a ministry called pro-life. Also, only two have a post-abortive ministry, and four had one dealing with adoption. After Lakewood, the second largest church is Second Baptist Church, also in Houston. It has nearly 24,000 members and is 21 minutes away from the largest Planned Parenthood in America. They also do not have any ministry for the abortion or adoption issue. They do find it necessary to have a ministry called “Second Gear” which helps singles with automobile maintenance.
Reality says:
If Karpen is the Gosnell of Texas and has ‘murdered a child’, why hasn’t he been charged with breaking any laws? Could it be because he hasn’t?
Abortion is legalized murder…. just as executing a death sentence is legalized murder. Just as assisted suicide is still murder, even though legal in some regions. It doesn’t matter whether the victim is guilty of a crime, or desires death, or the most innocent & helpless of all: It’s still homocide, and it’s still legal.
It ought not to be legal. Look at the dead child! And if Christians would wake up and rise up against this injustice, it could be stopped — just as Christian resistance put an end to slavery in the country, once upon a time.
The definitions of murder generally state “the unlawful killing…”.
Therefore, where it is legal, abortion is not murder.
And while I disagree with the death sentence it is not “unlawful killing” either, therefore not murder.
In places where euthanasia is legal it isn’t “unlawful killing” either, therefore not murder.
Murder has definitions other than the legal definition. One definition is “to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously”. That sums up abortion pretty well. Since everyone knows abortion is legal, you’re probably safe in assuming people that call abortion murder are not using the legal definition.
Reality, you see the photo of the dead baby at the top of the page and not one word of sadness or empathy for her. Instead, you talk about man made laws. That pretty much says all there is to say about you. Remember, slavery was once legal in the US and killing Jews was once legal in Germany.
And another is “to spoil or mar by bad performance, representation” – hm, let me see, where do I think that might apply.
Your definition doesn’t sound like 99.9% of abortions that take place.
“… people that call abortion murder are not using the legal definition..” – perhaps you’d better tell Del.
How do you know the aborted fetus is female Kelly Zee?
Preventing women from voting was legal.
Not allowing women to have their own bank accounts was legal.
Not allowing blacks to marry whites was legal.
Get my drift?
Incarcerating or executing gays was legal. Oh wait, it’s coming back in some countries. You know, the ones where US evangelicals are hard at work.
Authentic Christian teaching professes animosity to the killing of unborn children. I challenge any Christian to differ.
Pro-life stalwart Todd Bullis has been preaching to the ‘silent’ churches for years. He would have some insight to share on this.
I grew up in Houston on the NW side and am familiar with a lot of the area on the west side of Houston…I’ve been looking at a google satellite map of where that clinic is (5607 Schumacher Lane) and there’s No Way there are as many as 50 churches within a 2 mile radius of that clinic…..There may be quite a few, but nowhere near 50.
Another noteworthy place that that clinic is near is the Houston Galleria and Uptown Shopping area. Both include the highest High End shopping stores and are about 10 minutes or less driving time away from that clinic. I think it is important to know this information because you can see what sort of demographics he chose to set up shop in….Location-location-location….It’s all about the money.
*
I happen to like Joel Osteen and those making the negative comments here are not familiar enough with his messages. Maybe you’re repeating what you heard others say. I know this – God says we are not to judge others and Joel never says anything critical about other pastors who judge him. He’ll only say they have their way and he has his. In 2010 I was extremely depressed and angry than I’d ever been in my life about something that had happened and if it weren’t for some of Osteen’s messages I’d still want to be sitting alone in a dark corner….It is true that he doesn’t cover hot topics such as abortion, gay lifestyles, or anything political. I wish that he would, though.
Monte here said that 2nd Baptist in Houston is only 21 minutes drive from the biggest Planned Parenthood in the country. No, even with light traffic it would take at least 30 minutes. The traffic in Houston can be horrendous…..I assume they mean the Planned Parenthood at 4600 Gulf Freeway in Houston.
P.P. had bought a 4 story bank building and the entire bldg was to be all P.P….Oh, they did brag about it. It was nauseating.
They had planned for an entire floor to be for abortions…….(cringe)…makes my skin crawl….Oh, and that one is very near the University of Houston.
How sickening that this is in my hometown, not to mention the monster Karpen.
I wonder how that investigation is coming along ?…Didn’t the Houston DA or someone say they were going to investigate after those 3 former employees made that video ?
There are churches that are doing something. I am in a small town and due to pressure from churches, PP scaled back to a smaller clinic and never did bring in abortions to our town. (They still unfortunately refer women to other abortion clinics in the state.) The Baptists have a Crisis Pregnancy Center which counsels expectant mothers and helps them get whatever support they need, whether it is finding medical care, getting baby supplies, parenting classes, or connecting with adoption services.
I think the point isn’t so much that there are 50 churches near the abortion clinic. It is are any of thoe 50 churches doing anything, individually or collectively? If not, shame on them!
All I know is that Saturday morning when I am outside an abortion facility, the only other Christians out there praying for it to be shut down are Catholics. We are easy to spot because we carry weapons … the rosary.
Reality said, “Preventing women from voting was legal.
Not allowing women to have their own bank accounts was legal.
Not allowing blacks to marry whites was legal..Incarcerating or executing gays was legal.”
Thanks for providing more examples to emphasize Kelly Zee’s point. Legality alone doesn’t determine rightness or wrongness of something.
And which Evangelicals promote incarcerating or executing gays? Pure hyperbole. At least Ex-GOP, while I don’t agree with his views, writes without the drama.
SB Smith. The mere fact that you say “God says we are not to judge others” shows why you are part of Osteens “church”. The Bible CLEARLY says Church LEADERS are exactly who we are actually SUPPOSED to judge. But it’s not surprising his followers don’t know these things because he does not teach the Bible. He makes you feel better because he is a self-help guru. Unfortunately, that feeling is not going to last. Praying that you find a Bible believing real church. Now regarding judging churches, please don’t use web sites. My church body, the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod has a large number of Ministries to moms in crisis pregnancy but they are run by outside agencies that are recognized by our church body and supported by all of our churches and individuals in our churches do volunteer and run these pro-life ministries but because they are not in house they may not be listed on websites.
My heart breaks for that precious child.
Covered in their own blood, with their head almost twisted off and with a crushed skull.
God help us.
Joel Osteen is more of a motivational speaker like Joyce Meyers. However in his defense I was also watching him on Pearse Morgan and Morgan attacked him on homosexuality. I cannot remember verbatim but Joel got kinda quiet and did say marriage is between a man and a woman .Pearse turned up the heat and I felt bad for Joel because he was cornered. This is why I don’t really attend church anymore. Because they aren’t willing to stand up for abortion. We need to hear MORE about mass genocide and a little less of the fluff feel good stuff. John Hagee is the only TV preacher I hear cover these issues and that’s why I respect him!
Look at that baby…..5000 murders a day n were gonna keep quiet? These messages are important because abominations and sin aren’t going to get us to heaven. I have a lot of sins in my life and I needed the church to teach me right from wrong. I don’t really want to hear about how you can live as you wish and still get to heaven. No you cannot.
John Hagee will tell you ABORTION has killed 75 million children in this country in the name of CHOICE!!
Since I am familiar with CareNet Ministries, I have the wonderful opportunity to clear up the issue on a disgraceful, uncalled-for accustation.
While casting stones in many directions, “Monte” noted: “After Lakewood, the second largest church is Second Baptist Church, also in Houston. It has nearly 24,000 members and is 21 minutes away from the largest Planned Parenthood in America. They also do not have any ministry for the abortion or adoption issue.”
The local CareNet ministry for Champion Forest Baptist Church is within a mile of Champion Forest. It is probably far better for Champion Forest to support CareNet doing their thing than to recreate the wheel.
While Champion Forest does not note an abortion ministry per website, there is a page noting what missions are supported. CareNet is one of six listed. A second of the six is New Life Pregnancy Center.
http://www.championforest.org/guide/missions/support/
Champion Forest has sermons archived in video and mp3 audio. I did a quick search for ‘abortion’ in the search bar and found Preacher Fleming giving a pretty unambiguous sermon on the Biblical need to be concerned with and involved in pro-life efforts…
http://www.championforest.org/worship/online/2010/07/25/americas_got_issues_abortion/
Wow. I listened to it. Not much grey area there. From the senior preacher, from the pulpit, Sunday morning. Take a listen. CareNet mentioned specifically.
So, it is not that difficult to click a few buttons on the internet, rather than to cast unsupported accusations. If “Monte,” or anyone else, has further questions, Champion Forest has a contact info page…so, it doesn’t seem that difficult to simply ask, rather than cast unfounded aspersions.
contact info:
http://www.championforest.org/contact/index.php
Finally, each of us needs to support crisis pregnancy centers. It is not enough to advocate for the legal prohibition of abortion. As a nation, our hearts need to change. We will not stop abortion by laws. It will stop when we perceive it as plain ol’ murder for the purposes of convenience and lifestyle. Those involved -the women, the family members, the friends, the fathers – need a competent, ready place to turn.
A woman considering abortion often has ALL social forces against her, then gets railroaded into an abortion clinic where marketing and social pressure railroads her to abort. An abortion-vulnerable woman needs just a bit of pro-life support to follow the path she often holds, but hold alone in the face of massive pressure.
You can donate money, or professional services, or figure out how you can be an involved volunteer.
I’m catholic and we always make sure the clinics by our churches have someone there. but we are always open to anyone that would like to join us. one time we had an anti abortion atheist group there with us.
I don’t care if there were 50 churches within 2 miles or 5 of them within 20 miles. It is sinful for Christians to stand idly by or worse give their support while children are being murdered anywhere near them.
Let’s stick with the question, “Who is my neighbor?” And here’s another one: “Who are the least of these?”
Pointing fingers at other Christians and pronouncing whether they are following Christ to my satisfaction … doesn’t seem quite right to me. No thanks.
“Legality alone doesn’t determine rightness or wrongness of something.” – absolutely right Eric, but in this instance you’re on the wrong side of history. Removing laws against womens reproductive rights equates to removing laws allowing slavery.
“Pure hyperbole.” – oh really? Your choice to ignore or deny the truth doesn’t make it hyperbole. Just type something like “US evangelicals lead calls for death penalty for gays” into your favorite search engine and have a bit of an explore.
US evangelical organisations have been leading calls for the death penalty for gays in countries such as Uganda and Ethiopia. Have a look at the activities of people like Scott Lively and groups like United for Life Ethiopia, a Western Evangelical Christian organization
Pastor Cutis Knapp of Kansas said in a sermon that the US government should put gay people to death.
Pastor Charles L. Worley of Providence Road Baptist Church in Maiden,
North Carolina: “I figured a way to get rid of all the lesbians and
queers. Build a great, big, large fence — 150- or 100-mile-long — put
all the lesbians in there… Do the same thing with the queers and the
homosexuals and have that fence electrified so they can’t get out… And
you know what, in a few years, they’ll die.”
Rev. Phillip G. Kayser, a pastor at the Dominion Covenant Church in Nebraska authored a paper arguing for criminalizing homosexuality and even advocated imposing the death penalty against offenders based on his reading of Biblical law.
That’s absolutely horrifying, Reality, but I don’t see how it’s relevant to the conversation at hand?
If you read the comments Jack you’ll see it just developed that way. Someone wrote those hoary cannards trying to equate abortion to slavery and the holocaust in response to my explaining that murder is unlawful killing not just the killing they don’t agree with. I used what has happened to gays as one of my examples about improved laws but included that evangelicals want to see a return to the past.
Well, I’ll call abortion homicide. Killing of a human, legal or not, is homicide. I do agree that murder as a legal term doesn’t currently apply to most abortions performed in the US. The colloquial use of murder fits abortion though, in my opinion.
Hopefully the Evangelicals who want gay people to be put to death or otherwise harmed or sanctioned will lose their battles and fade into obscurity. And hopefully those who want it legal to kill fetuses will do the same.
Btw if you want to lose your faith in humanity go argue about homosexuality/bisexuality/anything but straight orientation on Breibart.com. Ten death threats later I don’t think I’ll be going on there again. Apparently God loves me so much he wants his followers to kill me lol.
“Ten death threats later”
I’m very sorry to hear that. What’s wrong with people?
Ah, just like the love-soaked streams of consciousness seen on various social media and in crayon scrawled letters whenever some young person stands up and points out that various meetings, grad ceremonies, proms etc, are being unconstitutional/illegal or discriminatory.
Love the sinner hate the sin eh Jack :-)
You could try offering them something like this –
http://altoonaherald.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130603/OPINION01/306030016/Iowa-View-1-man-1-woman-isn-t-Bible-s-only-marriage-view
but you’d probably want to don some safety apparel to protect yourself against the spittle-flecked outrage.
Lol, they’re just Internet Tough Guys ™ who wouldn’t actually know what to do in a fight in real life, so they get their jollies and feel like big men by going around telling people who don’t fit into their narrow-minded definition of ‘good’ to die.
” You could try offering them something like this –
http://altoonaherald.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130603/OPINION01/306030016/Iowa-View-1-man-1-woman-isn-t-Bible-s-only-marriage-view
but you’d probably want to don some safety apparel to protect yourself against the spittle-flecked outrage.”
The truly scary part is I wasn’t even arguing about gay marriage, I was arguing about non-straight kids being involved in Boy Scouts. Apparently the thought that kids that don’t identify as straight are now able to participate in Scout activities is so, so horrifying that civil war is the only option. Very loving.
“Lol, they’re just Internet Tough Guys ™ who wouldn’t actually know what to do in a fight in real life, so they get their jollies and feel like big men by going around telling people who don’t fit into their narrow-minded definition of ‘good’ to die.”
True, I guess it’s best to not take them too seriously. I will give them no further thought.
The whole BSA thing has been slightly bemusing to observe. It’s hard to discern which bits are confected outrage based on lies and bigotry and which bits are genuine outrage borne of ignorance and it’s associated fear.
Well, I was informed that gay perverted boys will trick those upstanding good straight boys into having sex with them, or just flat out rape them. That seems to be the main issue. Oh, and in case you were wondering, allowing gay Scout masters would mean that for the first time ever there would be pedophiles taking advantage of the Scouts (in case you can’t tell, that’s heavy sarcasm, considering how much of a problem that the BSA has had with pedophiles in their ranks and covering that up).
They usually give themselves away as soon as they open their mouths Jack.
“gay perverted boys” and other misnomers usually emerge within their first sentence.
The odds are much higher that the gay boys will be beaten by the ill-educated ones than that any gay boys will successfully ‘seduce’ any straight boy.
Well apparently a lot of churches are splitting from the BSA and not allowing their facilities to be used for meetings and such. And some troops are just going to refuse to abide by the new rule. It’s just sad to me, that people think that children and teens who don’t identify as straight or fit that label should be, what, shunned? Not allowed to partake in activities for something that they can’t help? It’s hurtful.
There’s nothing I can say to you about this that you don’t already know Jack.
Freedom and equity will prevail – eventually.
Jack and Reality.
Why do you suppose they started two separate charters for the boy scouts and girl scouts? Wasn’t part of it to keep the sexuality out of scouting?
A gay or bisexual boy is just as capable of being celibate as a straight boy, truth. As far as I am aware the Boy Scouts are anti-any sexual activity for their unmarried scout. The boy’s orientation shouldn’t mean that he should be banned from the Scouts if he follows the moral code. He can’t help the way he’s orientated.
That may have been a part of it truth but more likely it was because of the vast difference in activities that it was expected – or demanded even – that boys and girls would undertake. Can’t have girls tying knots and chopping wood now can we, tut tut. They need to be making tea and learning to sew.
There would always have been gay and lesbian scouts and guides anyway. They either just didn’t let anyone know, hadn’t recognised their own sexuality or were living in denial.
50 churches within 2 miles of “Texas Gosnell’s” late-term abortion clinic (Osteen’s – 3 miles)
It is a scandal that more people of good will don’t rouse themselves. But then again it is usually the churches that support pro-life work more than anyone else. We ought not confuse being active in front of the mills with inaction–there are plenty of ways to contribute to prolife.
I would like to see Osteen hold up this poster in front of his congregation and proclaim this is what God the creator sees in every abortion, how we his broken children throw away His most precious gift….and then call upon Christians everywhere to engage in fasting and prayer and action to end this holocaust.
Well, Sue…you have your opinion of Osteen and I have mine.
We will have to agree to disagree.
You are not the judge of me, either.
Oh and….My spiritual inspiration comes from many sources….Not exclusively from Osteen.
I do wish, which I stated already, that Osteen and other Christian pastors would address the abomination of abortion.
“A gay or bisexual boy is just as capable of being celibate as a straight boy, truth.”
Jack, you appear to have missed my point. I wasn’t taking about chastity. A primary purpose of breaking up the scouts into boys troops and girls troops is so that parents would not need to worry about sex while their children were away at scouting.
” Jack, you appear to have missed my point. I wasn’t taking about chastity. A primary purpose of breaking up the scouts into boys troops and girls troops is so that parents would not need to worry about sex while their children were away at scouting. ”
Might have something to do with it, but like Reality said, gender roles seemed to play the biggest part in that.
And anyway, if celibacy is what’s required then there’s not one reason to ban gay or bi boys. Attraction isn’t an issue if you aren’t having sex. It’s just pure bigotry to want to exclude children from participating in activities because of their orientation. There’s no “love the sinner, hate the sin” if you’re excluding people for what they ARE, rather than anything they do. So just, stop being a bigot and stuff.
“And anyway, if celibacy is what’s required then there’s not one reason to ban gay or bi boys.”
That is just it Jack. Separating the boys from the girls was a way of effectively removing sex from occurring on camp-outs etc. Are you suggesting we could allow kids with sexual attraction to each other to sleep in the same tents and expecting them to police themselves and be celibate?
You’re clutching at straws truthseeker.
Unless there are two gay boys in a tent then no sex is going to occur. And even then the others in the tent would object and stop them. Most likely is a less than very nice way.
If boys and girls aren’t permiited to share a tent then the leaders could ensure that two gay boys aren’t in the same tent.
This whole thing really isn’t difficult. Except maybe for ignorant homphobes.
Do these kids have no adult supervision, truthseeker?
Gay boys aren’t in danger of having sex with straight boys, unless you think that gay or bi = sexually coercive or rapist than there isn’t a problem. The adult can make sure two boys that are gay or bi don’t share a tent, and that will take care of any possible sexual activity. And honestly, before puberty most kids aren’t going to be being sexual anyway, unless they’ve been oversexualized with abuse, porn, or other inappropriate sexual encounters (and if that has occurred the child needs to be helped and cared for, not ostracized).
This discussion is basically confirming my suspicion that people are just afraid gay people will hit on them. Most gay and bi people don’t want your straight self, so get over it.
Maybe to have zero fear of gays we need to have zero doubt about our own sexuality ;-)
I don’t even get their fear anyway. What’s wrong with saying politely “not interested, thank you”? Not like young gay or bi guys are interested in hairy, middle-aged men anyway, who are usually the ones I hear complaining about gays in the first place lol.
Anyone who disagrees is a homophobe.
Cause we are scared and we live in fear.
Of course.
Disagreeing with homosexuality isn’t necessarily homophobic.
Thinking children should be banned from activities because of their orientation is homophobic/bigoted.
Too true Jack.
Women are at much greater risk of being hit on by straight men than straight men are by gay men.
As with a lot of these things I think the most vocal anti-gay, anti-sex outside of marriage, anti-more than one partner in a lifetime, anti-contaception people simply can’t stand the thought that someone may be having more pleasure than them.
Homophobia:
from Merriam-Webster – irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against
from Religious Tolerance – homophobia as engaging in a behavior aimed at denigrating — or restricting the human rights of — persons who have a homosexual orientation and/or who engages in homosexual activity.
from Wikipedia - Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, may be based on irrational fear, and is sometimes related to religious beliefs.
Homophobia is observable in critical and hostile behavior such as discrimination and violence on the basis of sexual orientations that are non-heterosexual
Sorry but can we say derailed thread?
Regarding the churches surrounding the clinic, the outrage is over the fact that they didn’t put incredible pressure on the clinic and shut it down by mere presence. More than one way to skin a cat, Reality, and there needn’t be any civil disobedience. We are all too content to sit idly by while PP and monsters like Karpen do something we know-we know-to be horrific. We should be out there every day with peaceful objections, offering words of encouragement to women and trying to move them away from abortion. Every moment, with our prayers and our positive message of hope.
“shut it down by mere presence” – exactly how would that work?
“we know-we know-to be horrific” – what you mean is ‘we think-we think-to be horrific’.
We know it to be horrific in the same way you and I know it’s bigoted to punish gay kids for existing by discriminating against them, Reality. It’s horrific to kill, hurt, or treat a human being poorly for existing at the “wrong” time or being conceived by the “wrong” parents, or being of the “wrong” orientation or the “wrong” religion.
I don’t hate or dislike homosexuals. I just don’t agree with their lifestyle. Huge difference. I don’t hate women who’ve had abortions. I just don’t agree with their choice. I don’t hate my married girlfriend for having an affair with a married man. I disagree with her being a home wrecker and adultery . I don’t agree with unmarried people having sex. All acts are against God.
Jack, I do not believe a person with a penis should get to use women’s bathrooms or sauna with the girls just because they dress like a girl and like to be called Sally; does that make me a bigot?
I’m not getting into the transgender thing.
Gay and bi boys are just boys. They aren’t some lesser class that needs to be excluded from activities. I’ll be damned if I let you people think you’re compassionate for excluding children for no valid reason.
RIP Boy Scouts.
Then why don’t we let them BE little boys instead of introducing them to homosexuality?
How many little boys KNOW they are gay??(unless an adult or older boy preys upon them) What age are we talking Jack?
6, 7, 8???
And all I have ever heard about gay “marriage” is that it doesn’t affect anyone else!!!
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/07/gay-colorado-couple-sues-bakery-for-allegedly-refusing-them-wedding-cake/
Sorry Reality.
I will no longer be having any kind of discussion with you.
It is like talking to satan.
“RIP Boy Scouts.”
Oh come on, this is really unfair. The organization still exists, it’s totally not dead.
The Boy Scouts only exist if they exclude kids who don’t feel “right”, I guess.
People can know pretty young. I know there can be crushes on both or the same gender when kids are still young, just like little straight boys will get crushes on little girls. The Scouts still exists in adolescence, too, and plenty of people know they aren’t straight by the time they are eleven, twelve, whatever. We aren’t even talking about behavior, we’re talking about excluding kids because of the orientation.
I knew the whole “we don’t like the behavior, not the person” thing was a load of garbage, it’s pretty blatantly obvious when you want kids excluded for the orientation, not for any type of behavior. But don’t worry, you don’t have to put your sons in Scouts so they aren’t around any of the bad kids.
Why does choosing not to kick out young boys with confusion (because this world is messing with their young heads) have to automatically mean that we are condoning homosexuality? Why can’t it mean that we just want to be able to guide these young boys in the right direction?
The more I think on this, the more I feel like we’re punishing children for their environment, not for their behavior. I totally support disallowing homosexual Scout leaders and such, but young children? They can hardly “know” for sure that their favorite color is green, let alone who they want to sleep with.
The Boy Scouts that existed held firmly to their ideals and traditions and now they don’t. The Boy Scouts that used to exist are no more. The past is the past and now this group can do whatever it would like.
I thought up the thread we were talking about behavior? Who is sleeping in this tent or that tent with another boy?
I don’t worry Jack.
It is just another organization to cave to the gay agenda.
Whatever. I’m never (and I was stupid to do so in the first place) going to let myself believe some of you actually love LGBT people, just dislike their behavior.
You mean me. I am ok with that. I love those that I know. I love the gays that are in my life. The gays that are in my family.(another cousin came out recently) Do I have to agree with their lifestyle? No I do not. Do I have to celebrate who they sleep with? No I do not.
And I am sorry Jack. I am tired.
Tired of thinking that I can’t even have an opinion and if I express myself……I must be AFRAID. Or I must HATE. Or I am a HYPOCRITE. Or SELF RIGHTEOUS.
You must know me better than that by now.
Well I meant you, and truth, and all the other people who claim to be loving Christians I have talked to in the last couple weeks who think that kids should be discriminated against for what they are. I know I’m getting mad and not being completely rational, but for pity’s sake.
Have an opinion all you want. If your opinion involves banning kids and teens from taking part in activities because of something that they can’t help (orientation NOT behavior, since people can’t tell the difference, apparently), then be prepared to get some backlash. Do you expect people to just agree that because of something we can’t actually help, that it’s okay to treat us like some lesser class that should be kept out of mixing with you good folk? You really expect people to be like “lol okay live and let live, we’ll just sit over here and let you folk keep us out of everything. We won’t even express our displeasure”. Gah.
What other “sins” that people aren’t actually committing, but maybe *want* to commit, should bar them from taking place in activities? Should we start banning kids who have the urge to lie to stay out of trouble? Should we ban every straight teen who looked at a girl in his class and had a lustful thought? You guys are specifically picking on one group of kids in a uneven and unfair way.
And you brought up sexual abuse as a reason kids would be “confused” about their sexuality. Okay, if that were true, let’s punish kids for being confused because of sexual abuse by keeping them out of activities just because? Okay. That’s not mean at all. Kids totally deserve to be punished for being introduced to sexuality too early by some piece of crap adult.
I’m TRYING to believe that you guys can actually just disagree with the behavior, but respect and love the person, but what you’re supporting and what you say isn’t matching up.
You are twisting what I have said.
A 6 year old boy would know he was gay Jack? How? Unless some adult introduced him. I am NOT justifying sexual abuse nor saying punish that boy.
They aren’t banned anymore from Boy Scouts are they? They are in. So it is moot.
In the bigger scheme of things when any preaching against homosexuality is deemed “hate speech” and all pastors will be made to marry gays NO MATTER their religious convictions maybe you will understand the agenda. Maybe you will understand the hatred that gays have for ANYONE that dares speak a word against their lifestyle.
It is personal for you and I get that and I am going to take my leave.
In the bigger scheme of things when any arguing against Christianity is deemed “hate speech” and all sexual lifestyles besides heterosexuality will be illegal NO MATTER their sexual orientation maybe you will understand the agenda. Maybe you will understand the hatred that Christians have for ANYONE that dares speak a word against their lifestyle.
^My statement is exactly as logical and coherent as yours. Which is to say, neither of our statements are true, anywhere near being implemented in the US. At all.
I don’t hate you even if I’m one of the “the gays” (even though I’m bisexual, I suppose anyone not straight is in the group you’re lumping together).
“A 6 year old boy would know he was gay Jack? How? Unless some adult introduced him. I am NOT justifying sexual abuse nor saying punish that boy. ”
I would be a terrible example here, but I do know my sister, and other gay and lesbians I have talked to who weren’t sexually abused, tell me that their childhood crushes were on people of the same gender, that they knew they were different early on. When they went through puberty the generally realized that they were sexually attracted to those of the same gender. I don’t think it’s okay to exclude people for feeling like that, even if their feelings come from sexual abuse or something other than being born with it. but whatever. We can disagree but I reserve to right to think it’s effed up and unloving to hold the opinion opposite of mine.
“It is like talking to satan.” – gee, I’m sorry. I didn’t realise that various dictionary as well as Religious Tolerance’s definitions are satanic!
And all I have ever heard about gay “marriage” is that it doesn’t affect anyone else!!!
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/07/gay-colorado-couple-sues-bakery-for-allegedly-refusing-them-wedding-cake/
Umm…I can still support a gay couple’s right to have their own marriage ceremony AND support the bakery’s right to refuse service and not get sued. Watch me do it. It’s easy. Here I go:
WHEEEEE!!!!!
They ARE getting sued. Have fun!!
I don’t think dictionary definitions are satanic.
Talking with you is like talking to satan. That is what I said.
Effed up and unloving to disagree with you?
Got it.
“Effed up and unloving to disagree with you?”
Not in most cases. But in regards to excluding kids for things outside of their control? Yes.
I’m sorry Carla. I shouldn’t be mean. I just don’t understand why people would want to exclude kids and teens for something that’s not even their fault and when any concerns can be easily managed to make a good experience for everyone.
You are not mean Jack. No apologies necessary.
I know you don’t understand.
They ARE getting sued. Have fun!!
And they shouldn’t be. But that’s part of a bigger problem. The judicial system in this country is routinely abused by people with personal issues, and there should be measures enacted to make sure that grown adults don’t use it to harass each other like children on a school yard in a squabble.
The case should be thrown out, and the people who brought it should be made to pay all costs associated with trying to use the court to interfere in the freedoms of the baking company.
…But…
The couple should ALSO be allowed to have their ceremony.
;)
(I don’t see why this is such a hard concept to grasp…)
12 states have legalized gay “marriage.” It is not hard for me to grasp that gay couples are getting “married.” It is not hard for me to grasp that they are indeed having “ceremonies.” And YES they are ALLOWED to do so and I can grasp that too.
What you and others can’t seem to grasp is that I am for traditional marriage between one man and one woman.
They are trying to force privately owned family businesses to bake them a cake(as fast as you can)or ELSE!! Or else they will sue.
Thanks for talking to me like I am an imbecile.
It’s cute.
They are trying to force privately owned family businesses to bake them a cake(as fast as you can)or ELSE!! Or else they will sue.
Well, you keep stressing this point with me as if I agree with what they’re doing, and I don’t. I don’t know how else to say it to make you understand.
And personally, I think they should be allowed to have a ceremony and have a civil union that grants them the rights that any other couple would have, but for the record, I don’t think the government should be involved in “marriage” AT ALL.
“I’m not getting into the transgender thing.”
You hateful bigot.
Lol. Not feeling like discussing something = bigotry, but excluding kids for stuff they can’t help isn’t. Whatever.
Jack, your mission to support homosexuality in kids doesn’t extend to transgender kids. That makes you a bigot.
Who says I don’t support transgender kids? I just refuse to discuss transgender people on this blog after one particular thread.
I don’t “support homosexuality” in kids, I support kids not being shunned because of something they can’t help. You support shunning kids for something they can’t help. Own it, be proud.
I support teaching kids there is a natural symbiotic relationship between boys and girls and homosexuality is an aberration. Not because I want to shun them Jack. And I am proud to speak the truth.
Jack, you could get 1,000 likes and it would not change the way I post. Principles are not based on other people feeling good about about things together. Principles are constant and solid like a rock. Recognizing anything as being immutable and unchangeable is a foreign concept to the liberal mind.
Such a lovely principle to hold it is. Like I said, you want children and teens who, for whatever reason, are not straight or are “confused” to be not allowed to take part in certain activities, not because they have done anything. Not for any behavior, just for existing. So, just be proud of the fact you want to exclude kids for something they are and stop trying to make up justifications.
“Like I said, you want children and teens who, for whatever reason, are not straight or are “confused” to be not allowed to take part in certain activities, not because they have done anything.”
Jack, sorry to rock your boat but you are the kid who is confused. You define a person to be homosexual just because they have certain ‘feelings’ or a ‘tendencies’. I define homosexuality as engaging in sex with a person of the same gender. And I have no problem with ‘confused’ kids to take part in a scouting system that can provide them with proper guidance.
I’m not a kid, and I’m not confused. Homosexual/bisexual are orientations. A celibate straight man is still a heterosexual, and a celibate gay guy is still homosexual. You’re conflating it with behavior. Which is what I said at the beginning of this argument, that the Scouts don’t allow premarital sexual activity (homosexual or heterosexual), so all this whining about them allowing gay Scouts is you guys being upset that the kids identify as gay, regardless of behavior. You even complained about celibate gay kids being on camping trips, are you changing your opinion now?
Homosexuals and heterosexuals don’t exist. People do. If a person doesn’t believe in God they still need to acknowledge that their sexual desires are just one part of who they are. People are many things and many things at once. Moreover, sexuality is a behaviour, even if the desires are innate. Once desires are acted upon they reflect a person’s behaviour. Christians, but not only Christians, object to people defining themselves as homosexuals or heterosexuals before they acknowledge that they are rational creatures first. To these people (Christians and others) those who define themselves by their sexual behaviour raise a red flag when they do so. To many, the public declaration of one’s sexuality is seen and felt to be a predatory act – and a sign of a stubborn individual willing to force other people to accept their behaviour (sexual or otherwise) no matter how obnoxious - or lawsuits will follow. Unlike race, a person’s sexual preference is not known objectively but needs to be disclosed. Neither is it required to be known by everyone or in every setting. For example, why do the Boy Scouts need to know the sexual orientation of its members unless some of those members plan on acting on those desires. In other words, the whole topic of sexuality is an inappropriate topic for the Boy Scouts. There were “gay” scouts in the past and there will be gay scouts in the future – so why did this become an issue? What does sexuality have to do with the Boy Scouts?
With that said, I have no idea what this conversation has to do with topic of this thread.
Jack, No Jack, I am not changing my mind. The boy scouts is a private organization. IMO homosexuals should be allowed to be members but not to allow them to promote homosexuality as a part of scouting.
Jack, I guess in your mind the boy scouts are atheist haters too cause they pledge to serve God.
Actually this discussion about the Boy Scouts has shown me that we are incorrect to attribute the destruction of Christian institutions and the promotion of homosexuality to the “homosexual” agenda because the whole Boy Scouts drama was completely unnecessary. Thus, I think it is more appropriate to call this effort to change the values of private and public organizations the “anti-Judeo-Christian” agenda. I think this new label captures the breadth of intent of those opposed to the Judeo-Christian values and acknowledges that it is not homosexuals (who only represent about 2% of the population). It is wrong to lay the blame for this massive change on a group that is being used by much larger forces and groups.
Jack,
I’m sorry if I wandered a bit in our emails back and forth. I’ve been behind on reading posts, and this subject was “hidden” here. I’m pretty much on Carla’s side in this, but it was actually Tyler who brought up the point I was making.
Why does this have to come up? Will there be a check-off box on applications to the Boy Scouts? Homosexual / Heterosexual. Irish. Polish. A kid may be “oriented” to stalk a teen idol someday or be an astronaut. Whatever happened to privacy?
The only objection to a “gay scout” would be flouting BEHAVIOR. And that would go for the 98% who are not gay. Wolf whistles, saying, “I’m gonna hit that!” would not be tolerated.
So unless scouts who feel they are homosexual don’t do the equivalent, who wants to examine their possible orientation and kick them out? This really does sound like social engineering.