Pro-life news brief 8-8-13
by JivinJ, host of the blog, JivinJehoshaphat
- Salon has a piece by Katie McDonough in which fetal pain is called “a lie.” McDonough’s cited source for this conclusion is one review of studies by abortion advocates and late-term abortionist Anne Davis, who is also the consulting medical director at Physicians for Reproductive Health. Davis claims children (born or unborn) can’t feel pain until 26 weeks. The following might be one reason Davis is so opposed to fetal pain legislation:
“Patients are now asking me about fetal pain. This was not happening 15 years ago,” Davis says. “When you’re sitting in your office with a woman who is 22 weeks into a pregnancy with a severe fetal anomaly — she’s depressed, she’s stressed and now she’s worried, ‘Is my baby going to feel pain?’ It’s just another thing these women have to struggle with. And why? These are created concerns. They are not based in science, they are based in politics.” - Cleveland Right to Life is now no longer affiliated with National Right to Life since CRTL added opposition to same-sex marriage to their mission statement.
- Yesterday, an ambulance was called to Mississippi’s only abortion clinic:
The Clarion-Ledger reached out to Jackson Women’s Health Organization owner Diane Derzis but she declined to comment.
- Wisconsin Attorney General J. B. Van Hollen (pictured left) issued a court filing that hospitals in Wisconsin can’t deny admitting privileges to abortionists just because they provide abortions:
Federal law “provides that hospitals accepting federal funds may not discriminate against a physician because that physician has participated in or refused to participate in abortions,” the state Justice Department said in its filing in federal court.According to experts on federal law, if doctors can prove they were not granted privileges specifically because they perform the procedure, the hospital systems — Wheaton Franciscan Healthcare, Columbia St. Mary’s Health System and Hospital Sisters Health System — could lose federal dollars in the form of research and public health grants.
- In the New Yorker, Amy Davidson tries to defend Wendy Davis and attack Erick Erickson for his “Abortion Barbie” tweet. I’m not surprised Davidson doesn’t include Davis’ actual quote. Here’s how Davidson describes the exchange:
Kermit Gosnell was the doctor convicted on murder charges after running an unsafe, illegal operation. Davis had answered a question about him and, after saying that she didn’t know much about the case, had gotten a fact about it wrong. (It had to do with whether Gosnell’s clinic was licensed as an ambulatory-surgical center.) Davis, who has a degree from Harvard Law School, rightly pointed out its disconnect from the Texas bill.Had gotten a fact wrong about it? Yeah, she got wrong the only thing she said about it (her incorrect claim that Gosnell was operating a surgical ambulatory facility) and I don’t know how you could think there is a “disconnect” between tightening regulations on abortion clinics and the reality that Gosnell was allowed to operate without being inspected for more than a decade.
[Photo via post-crescent.com]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
According to experts on federal law, if doctors can prove they were not granted privileges specifically because they perform the procedure, the hospital systems — Wheaton Franciscan Healthcare, Columbia St. Mary’s Health System and Hospital Sisters Health System — could lose federal dollars in the form of research and public health grants.
“Franciscan,” “St. Mary’s” and “Hospital Sisters” — do those sound like Catholic hospitals to you?
If we still had religious freedom in this nation, they would be granted a conscientious objection to partnering with an abortionist. We shouldn’t have to sell our souls in order to accept public assistance for healthcare.
I love the selective outrage from The New Yorker. When a conservative says something, “Oooh, RACIST! SEXIST!” When Charlie Rangel calls Tea Partiers “white crackers” – crickets.
Nothing new.
If we still had religious freedom in this nation, they would be granted a conscientious objection to partnering with an abortionist. We shouldn’t have to sell our souls in order to accept public assistance for healthcare.
You’re right, and this is appalling. I wonder if botching abortions repeatedly counts as grounds to not grant an abortionist admitting privileges. That should rule out a bunch of peeps.
“Salon has a piece by Katie McDonough in which fetal pain is called “a lie.” ”
Of course, Katie McDonough’s definition of a lie is a fact that is inconvenient for my political position.
When the Texas House committee was hearing public comments from citizens, a representative from the hospital association came to oppose the provision regarding admitting privileges. In a nut shell, she said abortionists don’t do anything that they would need admitting privileges for. They don’t have patients like other doctors such as ob/gyn’s or pediatricians and they aren’t qualified or certified for the kind of treatments that emergency patients would need. Abortionist just kill kids. That’s it. They don’t do other stuff. Now, this wasn’t the Catholic hospital association. It was just hospitals. Now, we all know that some abortions are performed by ob/gyn’s in hospitals, but these are uncommon and are part of a doctor’s regular practice. Abortionists kill healthy babies with healthy mothers and sometimes kill the mothers, too. They specifically are not in the life saving business like other doctors including those who would treat pregnant women with serious complications. Sick pregnant women are in the hospital with real doctors caring for them.
Also, this stupid routine about Catholic hospitals letting women die because they won’t deliver pre-term is just BS. I personally know a woman suffering heart failure and about halfway through her pregnancy who had a pre-term delivery that back then everyone knew the child would not survive. She is Catholic and so was the hospital, but she was suffering heart failure and already had six kids she needed to take care of. She still suffers sadness and grief for the loss of that child, who was not deliberately killed but was too premature to survive. That was back maybe in the late 70’s early 80’s. Anyway, Catholic hospitals are not letting women die and never have been. They just aren’t letting doctors kill.
But some in government, K. Sebelius, want to punish any hospital that doesn’t share their eugenic vision. They would love to shut down Catholic hospitals and have involuntary euthanasia in all US hospitals. Abortion and the bs about “choice” is just more popular now than euthanasia. They would love to use abortion as the conscience issue that would cut the Catholics out of healthcare. That way they could quietly institute the Liverpool protocol. Of course the gov’t doesn’t want to tell seniors that, so they go for the more gullible college student demographic and get them all exercised about their sexual freedom and abortion and choice, blah, blah, blah.
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I used to tell my mother that some of my, um, unsavory friends were nice to me anyway.
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She wisely answered that I only believed they wouldn’t abuse me, too because the hadn’t done it, yet.
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Just ask Wendy Davis where she stands on the Liverpool Protocol.
I’m proud of National Right to Life for focusing on the fight against abortion, and not being pressured by religious groups to add non-related issues like gay marriage in with their mission.
“ non-related issues like gay marriage ”
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Indeed.
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Gay marriage won’t be leading to many abortions, y’know.
And, the Wisconsin AG is correct. The hospitals aren’t allowing abortions to take place in the hospital.
This part of the Texas law will also be tossed by the courts, including the SCOTUS.
Yup. Which is why I’m glad there’s at least one national pro-life group that finds actually fighting abortion more important than arguing about other issues. adding in other issues hurts us, it’d be like me insisting that people stop eating meat and argue against it to fight abortion, it’s just dumb. Separate issues.
They would love to use abortion as the conscience issue that would cut the Catholics out of healthcare.
Well that would be a real shame, because there are many, many Catholic agencies who minister to the “least among us” — including low-income people with AIDs, the homeless, etc. I see it every day. I wouldn’t mind going to work for Catholic Social Services instead of this abortion promoting place, but they don’t pay their employees anything.
And, the Wisconsin AG is correct. The hospitals aren’t allowing abortions to take place in the hospital.This part of the Texas law will also be tossed by the courts, including the SCOTUS.
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BS
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You are referring to elective abortions.
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Therapeutic abortions get different treatment by hospitals.
I think that what the judge in Wisconsin said was quite telling. The Texas legislation has a high probability of being overturned.
“Katie McDonough’s definition of a lie is a fact that is inconvenient for my political position.” – the lie was the info used to enact the politically motivated position by Texan politicians.
A lie was at the heart of Roe v Wade and every abortion since then – so if Katie McDonough wants to talk about lies, let’s revisit all of them.
BTW – Abortion shreds a human child at any gestational age. And presence or absence of pain doesn’t change the inhumanity of the act, only the empathy of the mother in commissioning of the abortion.
I fundamentally disagree Chris. There was no lie at the heart of roe v wade nor every abortion since. It’s not a ‘lie’ to determine that the rights of an existing person are more important than the rights of a gestating fetus.
Shredding is not an element of every abortion.
If we still had religious freedom in this nation, they would be granted a conscientious objection to partnering with an abortionist. We shouldn’t have to sell our souls in order to accept public assistance for healthcare.
Well, some people believe that a patient is best served by “continuity of care.” By that argument, a woman who ends up in the hospital as a result of an abortion should continue to be treated by the physician who performed the abortion. For example, Dr. Matthew Lee, a member of the American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists, asserted in a sworn affidavit that Wisconsin’s law requiring abortion providers to have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital was necessary because an abortion provider who sends a patient to a hospital and does not continue to care for her has committed “patient abandonment.” A woman who is simply “handed off” to a hospital after experiencing complications from an abortion is, in Dr. Lee’s professional opinion, receiving “substandard care.”
Dr. Lee went on to say in his affidavit that, as a member of Franciscan Wheaton Hospital’s credentialling committee, “I am unaware of any absolute bar at religiously affiliated Wisconsin hospitals against competent abortion providers seeking or receiving admitting privileges.” Rather, he asserted, the Church Amendment would ensure that competent practitioners could obtain privileges at Catholic hospitals.
Another member of the American Association of Pro-Life Ob/Gyns, Dr. James Linn, similarly asserted that “mandating abortion providers to have local hospital staff privileges can and will make a real difference in increasing quality care and better ensuring patient safety.” Dr. Linn, who was chair of Columbia St. Mary’s Ob/Gyn department for nineteen years, further declared that Catholic hospitals “do allow abortion providers staff membership,” and said that he “know[s] for a fact that all of the Catholic hospitals in Milwaukee have or have had abortion providers on their medical staff.”
And so it would seem Wisconsin’s Catholic hospitals, in addition to failing miserably at communicating their credentialling requirements to their own members, are committed to ensuring that women who end up in their ERs receive substandard and unsafe care.
Link to Dr. Linn’s affidavit is here.
hippie, I’ll be more specific next time. I thought people here would know what I meant by just saying abortion.
I don’t think that they are going to be able to demand that hospitals grant privileges to doctors who do not admit patients for procedures, etc. Medical emergencies like botched abortions are handled by physicians who are trained to handle trauma or stuff like that. If abortion doctors were competent to handle these situations, they wouldn’t need to panic and call an ambulance so a paramedic could treat the patient, and stabilize her en route to real physicians.
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Perhaps Jill can clarify what hospital privileges really are.
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Since abortion doctors don’t actually have patients, only victims, they don’t need hospital privileges. Hospital privileges are for doctors who actually have patients they are treating and who need treatment in a hospital.
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Killing women and children is not a subset of the healing arts.
Given the comparative maternal mortality rates Hippie, should all pregnant women be referred to as victims? Especially given that doctors who perform abortions have no more intention of causing the death of women than any other doctor facilitating any other procedure.
The whole issue of admission privileges may be moot.
To begin with, someone doesn’t just walk up to a hospital, ask for, and receive privileges. This can be a very drawn out process. The person must have the training, credentials, proof of continuing education, references, background checks, as well as certifications in CPR, ACLS, NRP, and PALS. Abortionists who have admitting privileges likely practice OB/GYN already at the hospitals and must meet the same criteria any other surgeon or specialist meets.
Now if the abortionist is some fly by nite with no credentials in surgery or gynecology, the hospital has every right to tell him/her to take a hike. I am an APN, but I can’t demand the hospital allow me to function in any area of advanced practice nursing I so choose. For instance I can’t ask for privileges to function as a pediatric nurse practitioner since I have absolutely no training or credentials in that area. Oh sure, I’ve had pediatric experience over the years. Doesn’t wash.
I know of Catholic hospitals that have let abortionists practice their OB/GYN on their premises. Also, if their patients had complications, they would be cared for.
Many of these abortionists may not have admitting privileges simply because they know they could never get them as they lack the necessary criteria or just don’t want to bother.
Hi Mary thanks for your response. Catholic hospitals that I know of have always taken care of patients no matter what the circumstances even after botched abortions. I can remember at one Catholic hospital, we took care a couple of post-abortive women with complications on the separate GYNY unit only (if I remember right they were diagnosed with retained fetal parts, retained fetal tissue and infection issues). The only 2 OB/GYNs that we found out about that did abortions were incompetent, butchers so they ended up not lasting very long, couldn’t build up a decent medical practice. They ended up stopping doing deliveries and focused on abortions.
On the separation of pro-life from pro-family issues from the spiritual aspects I believe there is a connection but I think pro-life organizations have to decide which battles they want to fight and I am pretty much alright with it I think. However I think that eventually the intolerance for Biblical standards is going to be so far reaching that Christians are going to be drawn more and more into the PC battle. The persecution has begun regarding religious freedom and freedom of conscience issues in Canada and the U.S.. The beginning of life and the beginning of family are defined in Genesis with Adam, Eve and God’s edit to ” leave, cleave and become one flesh” and to “be fruitful and multiply”. It is going to be a tough battle but ” we are more than conquerors”.
Oh, regarding the “can’t feel pain until 26 weeks” ‘lie”. I know some NICU nurses who would adamantly disagree, they have taken care of some 24 and 25 week old premies who they “know” are in pain (they watch their vital signs, level of stress and indicators of pain) especially with the many procedures that these little ones go through and I would take a NICU nurse’s word over any abortionist word (who kills babies for hire) any day of the week. Not all of theses tiny ones make it but the odds keep getting better and better for them to make it.
Chris I stand with you on your evaluation of Roe vs. Wade. This SCOTUS decision has lead us on a course of murdering our own children for the woman’s convenience. 99 percent of these abortions are not medically justified.
This “landmark” decision was a sellout to the culture of death. SCOTUS in effect had told us that population control takes precedence over humanity. And now Pres O wants to import from other nations for his “innovation project.” I wonder why?
IS week 19 the time when it is likely the unborn suffer pain?
I was told this is the time by when the central nervous system is “hooked up.” If so, it makes sense that this is the time when pain can be felt and, in the case of abortion, torture might be inflicted.
Great discussion. I was hoping to have a ‘Reality Free’ discussion, but no he/she had to show up and spill rubbish.
Hippie’s comments are very enlightening, however!
I read a quote by an abortionist recently complaining that suddenly his adult patients are asking about fetal pain, and that years ago it was very rare for women to ask. This is a good sign. People are waking up to the humanity of the developing human. Every health care provider to whom a pregnant woman presents, is presented with at least TWO patients (more if twins or triplets). Though abortionists only want to count the mother, biologically and scientifically there are at least two PEOPLE present in front of him or her. The small developing person doesn’t cease to exist because the abortionist WANTS to believe he or she doesn’t exist.
“I read a quote by an abortionist recently complaining that suddenly his adult patients are asking about fetal pain”
Do you happen to be referring to the quote from the top story in this news brief?
“Given the comparative maternal mortality rates Hippie, should all pregnant women be referred to as victims?”
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Fail.
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Now we are finding all kinds of causes of death listed on the death certificates of that women known to have been killed by botched abortions. So, no, we don’t believe the numbers. Heck, for all we know lots of those deaths attributed to pregnancy are themselves botched abortions.
Especially given that doctors who perform abortions have no more intention of causing the death of women than any other doctor facilitating any other proc”
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What BS. Abortionist kill. It is what they do. Were it not for the laws that would punish them for killing women, they wouldn’t even be half as careful. They have no regard for human life, only their own freedom and bank accounts.
“Now we are finding all kinds of causes of death listed on the death certificates of that women known to have been killed by botched abortions.” – fallacious. It’s not the doctor performing the abortion who decides what the cause of death was.
If they want to be free and retain their bank accounts they would be trying their best not to cause womens’ deaths.
Reality states: “It’s not the doctor performing the abortion who decides what the cause of death was.”
You are absolutely correct, it was the doctor performing the abortion who caused the woman’s death. So, the cause of death: ABORTIONIST DOCTOR. We need to lobby coroners’ offices nationwide to include that cause of death in their classification system.
Thanks for the clarifications. Your comment advanced awareness of the evils of abortion and provided an important solution in the form of litigation.
It would appear that my clarifications may have been less than sufficient for your needs Thomas R.
Given the comparable death rates and the fact that no doctor wants to lose potential repeat customers, I find this little meme that abortion doctors are killing women on any significant level to be one of the more ludicrous attempts to emerge of late.
My comment advanced awareness that abortion has a lower rate of womens deaths than does full term delivery. You are welcome to try the litigation angle. It won’t keep you very busy.
This doctor did kill the “patient.” It only takes once to to put an abortionist “doctor” out of business and peniless.
It would appear that you are wrong :-)