Thanks to abortion advocates for all the coathanger psa’s
Back in January 2010 I reported that the DC Abortion Fund had given the “gorgeous and touching” coat hanger pendant as a holiday fundraising gift. And it’s so très chic, constructed of “handmade sterling silver,” no less.
Two days ago, National Review Online noticed DCAF is again hawking the coat hanger bauble, and this time Drudge picked up the story, drawing the abortion funder lots of scorn.
An editor at U.S. News & World Report called DCAF’s give-away a “misguided parody” that “makes you wonder what goes on in the minds of people who think a trinket like that is a good idea as it lampoons the horrors of back alley abortions and makes light of the imagery the supporters of legal abortion used for decades to get their point across.”
I, on the other hand, want to thank DCAF and the pro-abortion community for their decades long “anti-coathanger abortion” public service announcements. They pretty much ensure no one will be so senseless as to try to kill her baby that way once abortion again becomes illegal, since the psa’s make it clear she might take herself out in the process.
Indeed, I think evidence points to the fact that the coathanger-abortion psa’s are having a positive impact in almost-post-abortion America. If, when abortions become difficult to obtain, we will return to the coathanger-abortion days, as abortion proponents threaten, you’d think we’d already be seeing them in any of the five six five states – Arkansas, Missouri, Mississippi, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Wyoming – that are now down to one abortion provider. But no.
Or how about in Texas, where a “400-mile stretch between Houston and the Louisiana border,” in the “vast, impoverished Rio Grande Valley,” quoting CBS News, is now without an abortion clinic?
Indeed, if abortion access is indeed now “in a full-blown crisis,” as claimed at Salon the other day, shouldn’t we be seeing that crisis played out in coathanger abortions?
But we have abortion advocates constantly warning against them, from old…
to young…
to everyone in-between, in this case demonstrating a “baby-on-the-brain” coathanger abortion…
from monster coathangers…
to women caged by coathangers…
to coathanger gorillas that should be caged before they snag someone…
Pro-choicers become incensed when they think pro-lifers are encroaching on their coathanger territory. Look how ticked this guy is…
They don’t want to hear their claim is a myth…
to the point that even Urban Dictionary mocks the concept…
Actually, abortion proponents know the truth. The just don’t want others to learn their coathanger abortion threat is a lie. So they just keep telling it louder.
All their other arguments are failing.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Lies are all they have…all they’ve ever had.
The coat-hanger meme is firmly based on the assumption that millions of women want to have abortions, and they will have abortions under any circumstance.
Women just aren’t wanting abortions that badly anymore.
– Having a child before marriage is no longer a terrible stigma.
– Much help is available for single mothers.
– Ultrasounds have revealed the humanity of the child.
– The abortion industry is dirty. The coat hangers remind many women that abortionists are as nasty as coat hangers.
– The word is spreading that abortion hurts women.
We don’t fear the coat hangers. But we should be afraid that there will be many women and children killed by illegal use of abortion pills — and already some women have been dosed without their knowledge.
Since they have nothing new or positive to offer, they just drag out an old scare tactic. Embracing the hanger just shows how irrelevant they are.
The younger the proaborts(the ones that made it out of the womb alive) are the harder it is to “pass down the rhetoric.”
I think the elder proaborts try to scare them with their Joan Crawford type screaming NO MORE WIRE HANGERS EVER!!
But in reality? The youngers don’t even know what the big deal is with a wire hanger.
Except to draw it on a piece of tagboard put a red circle around it and a red line through and come out to protest. :)
I can’t wait to see all of the wire hanger necklaces!! bwahahahahaha
Nobody is going to wear it.
The coathanger is still a relevant symbol of the increased risks women face if abortion is difficult to obtain. It also lets the younger generation know what things were like before womens reproductive rights and choices were protected.
Thankfully the increasing availability of non-surgical terminations means that it will continue in relative safety no matter what.
http://www.abortionfacts.com/facts/12
womens reproductive rights
You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Perhaps you would care to explain on what basis you feel I don’t know what it means then LibertyBelle?
What do you consider the term to mean?
Reality,
Why would the coathanger be a relevant symbol if even PP acknowledged in 1960, 13 years before RvW, that 90% of illegal abortions were performed by licensed physicians in their offices? Were these physicians using coathangers? Also, were they back street hacks? Apparently not. According to another quote in my source they were “reputable physicians in good standing in their local medical associations”.
Did you read my 6:27pm comment or not Mary?
Sure I read it, so kindly answer my question.
Well first off that was a tip to a line from the incredible Princess Bride… But I digress. So it was funny – or supposed to be. ;)
But reproductive rights shouldn’t mean abortion. Reproductive rights ought to mean the right to reproduce. And last I checked, America is among the freest place for women to reproduce. Heck, women can reproduce with a turkey baster if they so choose. They don’t even need a man in the same room as them (they can go to a doctor’s office and choose sperm!). So they can reproduce however, whenever, and wherever they want.
But once they have reproduced? Well. A life has been created. And from then on out, what they do with that baby is no longer about reproduction – it’s about that new life they made. Abortion doesn’t fall under reproductive rights – it falls under murder.
Also why oh why do pro-aborts have to be so foul and vulgar?!
Gross to the giant upside down woman.
I worked with a nurse who was a little wacky, in a fun sort of way.
Anyway she told yours truly and a few other nurses she had a pregnancy scare and spoke to her OB, who performed abortions, about what to do if she is pregnant. He advised her on a method of self abortion. When she told me about it, yes, it sounded like it would work. Question is, if abortion is legal, why would she prefer this method? Isn’t this an illegal self induced method? Certainly a nurse should know better.
Let’s see, privacy, convenience, minimal expense? She’s spared the hassle of going to a clinic or coming to the hospital? Sounds pretty logical to me. What do you think Reality?
I have to wonder if in the days of illegal abortion, this OB discreetly advised his patients on this method. After all, what could be proven and how could he be implicated? It would be his word against hers.
I guess some things never change.
As per my 6:27pm comment Mary, it is a relevant symbol.
What about prior to 1960?
What about the other 10% post 1960?
Who knows anywhere near accurately how many abortions were performed in those times? The data is suspect.
Coathangers have been used.
Isn’t this an illegal self induced method? – have you answered this question?
Let’s see, privacy, convenience, minimal expense? She’s spared the hassle of going to a clinic or coming to the hospital? Sounds pretty logical to me. What do you think Reality? – hard to say given I don’t know what the method is.
I have to wonder if in the days of illegal abortion, this OB discreetly advised his patients on this method. – was it available then? Was it actually illegal then?
I guess some things never change. – including women demanding access to abortion.
I have not seen Princess Bride LibertyBelle.
But reproductive rights shouldn’t mean abortion. – shouldn’t? That’d be opinion then.
Reproductive rights ought to mean the right to reproduce. – and the right to not reproduce.
And last I checked, America is among the freest place for women to reproduce. Heck, women can reproduce with a turkey baster if they so choose. They don’t even need a man in the same room as them (they can go to a doctor’s office and choose sperm!). So they can reproduce however, whenever, and wherever they want. – wonderful. How about if they get raped?
Abortion doesn’t fall under reproductive rights – it falls under murder. – this is an incorrect statement.
So, nothing to negate what I have said about womens reproductive rights and freedoms.
You’re missing out. Princess Bride is hilarious.
Well right they have the right to reproduce or not – the point is, once they have reproduced they do not have the right to terminate any resulting life. They can choose to use birth control, abstain, or get it on with whomsoever they choose. The point is that sex makes babies and as soon as a new life enters the picture, she shouldn’t be allowed to murder that baby. There’s a new life now – it’s beyond reproduction at that point.
It is tragic that women are raped and conceive babies from that. No one should be raped. But the baby shouldn’t be punished because his/her dad was a rapist. That’s awful.
Now that we have established that I do indeed know what reproductive rights means, I see that you are confused over the meaning of reproduction, fetus and baby.
It is tragic that women are raped and conceive babies from that. No one should be raped. – horrid and tragic.
But the baby shouldn’t be punished because his/her dad was a rapist. That’s awful. – the fetus has no awareness in any capacity, it certainly can’t feel ‘punished’. So why punish the woman concerned and make her feel like she’s being raped again.
Reality, your post above is one of your best so far. Especially the last section, “why punish…” etc. I can answer for the “pro lifers”: because they think it was her fault and a proper punishment for being slutty.
Thank you Christine. I do like the comments that you yourself post.
There are some who do appear to be of the thinking that any woman who gets raped has obviously chosen to place herself in a position where it may occur. I’d like to think that this is somewhat less than common. What does seem to be exceedingly common is the concept that everything, and I mean everything, is secondary to the fetus.
An aborted fetus which is the product of rape does not suffer in any way. A woman who is forced to endure a pregnancy and delivery against her will certainly does.
Thank you Reality, and I do appreciate that you are here fighting those “pro lifers”, instead of being on a pro women site scratching each other backs. If we can worry them at least a little, then this is not a waste of time.
The coathanger is their religious icon. It’s their cross..
Yawn the old tired hanger. hang it up already
Actually, I think a huge part of the point is to ensure that some crazy woman WILL do a coathanger abortion at a time and in a place that benefits the abortion lobby. You plant the idea and wait for it to sprout.
Absolutely Christina,
Someone will use a coathanger on themselves. Someone so set on self harm needs immediate medical and psychological attention and evaluation. We call 911 and get her the help she needs.
Christine meet Reality.
Reality, Christine.
How cute are you two??
btw Christine you hardly “worry” us!!! LOL How old are you? 9?
You are both here BECAUSE you are worried. Your side is losing on every front. And you know it.
Please speak to the states that have only ONE remaining abortion mill available. Please speak to why the blood is not running down the sewers as women grab wire hangers by the thousands in ND for “lack of access.”
Yes it worries me that you can not accept the fact that women are adults capable of making their own decisions. http://www.pinterest.com/pin/133278470193824763/
Losing? http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/albuquerque-abortion-ban-opponents … and this was about late abortions. You are history.
Carla, re your edited post above and the addition of the states where your sick agenda is moving forward; it is probably because you have been able to force women into having unwanted children. Teach them a lesson for having sex, huh? And maybe even enjoyed it, even worse… can not have it like this, slutty women having sex like that.
awwww you guys are so adorable, defending the right to kill a baby together. What a dynamic duo.
And Christine, don’t even go there with me about the slutty thing. No one – NO ONE no matter if she was naked and passed out drunk in a frat house – deserves to be raped. No one deserves to be molested. That is a horrifying crime.
And reality how adorable. Here we go round and round the garden again about the definition of a baby. It’s a life. How hard is that for you to grasp? And we’re not punishing the woman – we’re helping her create good from and evil situation. Even if she doesn’t keep that baby, well maybe there’s an adoptive family who’s been waiting for that kid.
Rape is evil. Yes, so why heap violence upon violence?
No one said women can’t make their own decisions. But they shouldn’t be able to just kill their babies. Sorry.
If we can worry them at least a little, then this is not a waste of time.
Bless your heart. You just keep telling yourself that, okay?
We’re not worried by you. About you, yes. But your words don’t worry us. Carry on, then.
Liberty Belle, I especially notice that you, who are so winning, did not comment about your 55-45 loss in one of the few polls where voters has been able to take a stance in this question only. And this was about late abortions. Where did all your support go, ho-ho?
And rape – it is beyond my understanding that women can demand of other women that they should carry the memory of their humiliation for nine months, day in day out, every minute be reminded of what happened to them. The mere thought of inflicting that on anyone makes me sick with anger, disgust, you name it. If someone chooses (horrible word, I know, but I can not find an alternative) to, fine, but forcing them – sick, digusting, perverted. How dare you? “Pro life” is a perversion.
Christine,
Please cut and paste where ANY prolifer has EVER stated we do not want women to enjoy sex. Please cut and paste where we have called our fellow women “slutty.” It has been YOU and your ridiculous claims. You need help. Seriously.
When your “movement” begins to abandon ship will you stay? Will you grab the bullhorn Christine and start crowing “freedom and empowerment??”
WHO just conceded that legal abortion is not safe for women.
Abortionists testify in court that they tear little human beings bodies apart piece by piece and reassemble them. They have testified that they grasp the head and crush the skull and watch the gray matter run out of the vagina. Those are the brains of the baby. The innocent human being murdered. The one you ignore.
Former workers in the mills detail the horror they have seen in the name of “choice.”
Women DIE from your “safe, legal” abortion. Women are physically injured in botched abortions. Safe as kittens. So very safe.
And what do we hear from the die hards on this blog?
::crickets::
And since you didn’t respond I will reiterate 2 things to you Christine.
There is no swearing here. Your comments will be deleted.
There is no linking to proabort causes and soliciting funds. Your links and comments will be deleted.
Thank you.
Liberty Belle, I especially notice that you, who are so winning, did not comment about your 55-45 loss in one of the few polls where voters has been able to take a stance in this question only. And this was about late abortions. Where did all your support go, ho-ho?
Hey if you’re gonna name me after some sweet confectionery, I love apple pie or Krispy Kreme donuts. Brownies work too. Ho hos aren’t my thing. But thanks for the thought. ;)
If you’ve ever taken a statistics class, you’ll know that polls aren’t always reliable and can easily be manipulated.
Also, opinions have no bearing on the truth. If everyone in the world decided not to believe in gravity, that wouldn’t change the fact that gravity exists. I don’t care where “my support” went – they could be wrong or not taking polls or whatever. So what? The truth is the truth is the truth. Read Carla’s post.
And rape. Don’t talk to be me about sick, disgusting, and perverted. Carrying a child to term is the natural course of things. IT sucks, yes. So does a lot of life. Sometimes people see their abusers every day. It’s horrible. But the baby was not the abuser. And no one is forcing a woman to keep the baby.
A woman who was raped needs love and help and counseling – not abortion. Violence is not the answer to violence. A horrifying abortion is not what a woman who was raped needs.
Still no comment on poll? Re sex: http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2014/01/27/anti-choicers-drop-life-pretense-increasingly-admit-theyre-angry-sex/
We are not sinking. We are the future, you are the past. Provide me with a source of your claims that WHO states that legal abortions are dangerous. I give you this one, it is from swedish Socialstyrelsen (the controlling organization for health care in Sweden) http://www.socialstyrelsen.se/Lists/Artikelkatalog/Attachments/18877/2012-11-6.pdf. Look at the table in page 10. Do not say you do not understand the column headers, I ran them through Google translate and it comes out perfectly understandable. Of more than one million abortions since 1975, the number of deaths has been … four (4).
And you frequently talk about what applies to late term abortions. The majority is medical. Same source as above, page 22, figure 7.
Case closed.
awwww you ignored my comment about the poll and then you directed me to the highly biased RH Reality check. Honey, you need to expand your definition of what “Research” is because RH Reality Check ain’t it.
Like I said, polls aren’t always super reliable, nor are dubious studies – regardless of where you get them. Perhaps I’m a skeptic at heart. But I prefer to talk about facts, not the whimsical opinions of poll-takers.
SO you wanna go to town about sex, do you?
Well for one thing, as a pro-life woman, I love sex. And I have zero interest in other people’s sex lives. I mean, for real. I’m probably one of the most tolerant pro-lifers in regards to other people’s bedroom habits. And I know that I am not the minority. Most pro-lifers (or anti-abortion people, whatever) have vibrant, healthy sex lives and don’t want to control what other people do. You wanna go to town with your person of choice?
Knock yourself out.
But if such activities lead to a baby, we only ask that you kindly refrain from dismembering resulting humans. Thank you.
It’s really not that hard to grasp. Or, it shouldn’t be.
Ok, the poll was manipulated? Not surprised. That often happens in underdeveloped countries. Or is it also part of the giant conspiracy (unclear why it exists, but it does) to promote abortions?
There is also a major difference in your reference to gravity compared to the right to reproductive health: one is a physical fact, measurable, repeatable, independent of observer. The other one is a political/moral stance.
The raped woman needs support in whatever decisions she makes. Notice the word SHE – indicates that SHE has a right to decide. Not you, not the state.
And Carla – I will swear as much as I like as you treat me as livestock. Because that is what “pro life” does to women.
Google this
WHO concedes that legalizing abortion does not make it safe.
And Carla – I will swear as much as I like
And you will be banned. Simple as that.
We do not live in Sweden. You do.
Dude, chill.
I don’t know anything about the poll! Why do you keep harping on that one poll and ignoring all my other comments? Simmer down. You’re not being treated as livestock – you’re manufacturing your own outrage.
Anyway I agree that all women need love and support. But shoving abortion at them is not the answer. Actually I’m a huge advocate of loving and supporting post abortive women. I do not judge post-abortive women and have a lot of compassion towards them. But often they are told that abortion is their only option and that is a lie.
The only comments that use language that degrades women comes directly from the abortion fans themselves.
Reality 11:44PM
What about prior to 1960:
If you will check out the graph provided above, you will see that prior to 1960, the death rate from illegal abortion had been steadily declining, largely due to the advent of antibiotics. Maybe physicians weren’t performing abortions and women were just getting more adept with coathangers up until 1960 when suddenly physicians began performing abortions.
What about the other 10% post 1960? Well, being the death rate continued to decline, its possible other medical personnel like nurses and midwives performed them. Or abortions were not registered as abortions, but rather as miscarriages or threatened miscarriages. This was very easy to pull off given the lack of ultrasound, accurate pregnancy testing, and people willing to not ask questions.
I have to admit, that question concerning the nurse is tricky. Very gray area there. However it does point out that even when abortion is legal, women may have their own reasons for risking an illegal abortion, and I supposed technically that would have been an illegal abortion, however illogical we may think her actions are.
I knew a nurse who worked in NY city. She would tell me of seeing women coming in after self induced abortions. I asked her if they couldn’t obtain legal ones. She just laughed and said: “In New York City they’re given away, I don’t care how dirt poor you are, you can get one.” “There are abortion clinics on every street corner”.
When I asked her why these women just didn’t have them done legally she just shrugged and said “damned if I know”.
So yes Reality, women always have and always will seek abortion. However, legalizing it only seems to have made it easier for hacks and criminals to hang their shingles with the full blessing of the state and not have to worry about answering to anyone, unlike the doctors of 40+ years ago who had to exercise extreme caution.
As expected regarding WHO, you did only read “pro life” short versions. How about this quote from the original text: “Assessing the safety of induced abortion does not suffice, however. In the longer term, global consensus will be needed on the broader indicators used to assess the provision of safe abortion in line with WHO guidance – i.e. indicators capturing access, equity, quality of care and linkages to post-abortion contraception”
And:”The immediate determinants of the risks of an induced abortion, such as the termination method used and gestational age, are influenced, in turn, by underlying social determinants: i.e. the legal context, the availability of safe abortion services, the level of stigma surrounding abortion, the degree of women’s access to information on abortion, and a woman’s age and socioeconomic status. The legal context and the level of safety are closely intertwined, but the association is context-specific.”
The authors after that discuss that safety must be measured along many dimensions, of which legality is one. Nowhere in the text can be found ANY indication that legality makes abortions less safe. But I guess you stayed with the original text (I had a few hits, all from “prolife” sites). Nobody else bothered to comment, because it is only the normal way science evolves, by constantly evaluating its tools and concepts.
For those who might be interested in reading it all, here is the link:
http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/92/3/14-136333.pdf?ua=1
The reason I mention that poll are two: in an election you have to choose one party, and find the one that suits you best on a number of issues. You might disagree with some, but others are more important to you. GOPers could argue that way to say that a majority support them though they have a minority of votes and seats. On this particular time, late term abortions was the only issue. And it was a landslide victory for pro women side.
That was one reason. The other is that it support my views :-)
And yes I live in Sweden where abortion related mortality is exactly that low. You live in USA, and if it is higher there, maybe your health care system could learn something. My figures at least show that abortions, when performed correctly is a very safe procedure.
Yeah, that was a pretty impressive victory. Abortion proponents kept their clinic open by outspending pro-lifers 4:1 in one of the most liberal cities in America, winning by 10 points with a process where the status quo has a built-in edge. I’m literally quaking in my space boots right now!
“Thank you Reality, and I do appreciate that you are here fighting those “pro lifers”, instead of being on a pro women site scratching each other backs. If we can worry them at least a little, then this is not a waste of time.”
You know Christine that “reality” is a man, don’t you…..
yawn
Abortion is NEVER safe for the baby.
LibertyBelle–I’ve seen THE PRINCESS BRIDE and got your reference right away–put a smile on my face, too. Great movie, and very quotable. Especially if you start rhyming, eh? LOL (Have you seen Mel Brooks’ YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN? That’s another quotable movie).
Bless your dear hearts, Reality and Christine! (“Bless your heart” is a southern thing, by the way–I haven’t heard too many folks in the USA who aren’t from the South say it) when will you realize many of the pro-lifers on here ARE women? (Including myself?) We’re FOR women. The thing about rape is, it’s already a violent act, why heap another violent act (abortion) upon it? My heart most definitely goes out to rape victims, but why is abortion the only answer? Why is it every time we make a suggestion to the alternative you act like the woman carrying the pregnancy to term and either keeping said baby or putting the little one up for adoption is a fate worse than death? I know a rape victim who did just that and they went on to live a happy life. They’ve left the door open for the adopted child to contact her if he or she so desires, but the woman didn’t let the rape rule her life. Instead, she got proactive, made sure she got herself the help she needed and that the baby had a good home.
I’ve been through pregnancy, labor, and delivery (if you couldn’t tell from my moniker) and it really isn’t a fate worse than death. Sure it’s not always easy, but life isn’t always easy, so hey, best thing to do is to cling to hope, and try to find something positive to believe in (I choose my Roman Catholic Christian faith for a positive thing to believe in, but I am aware not everyone is Roman Catholic Christian, some are other forms of Christian or other religions altogether).
Without hope, life is pretty dreary–at least, that’s been what I’ve seen in people who give up hope. To me, abortion is giving up. It’s saying “I can’t do this!” and running away rather than facing a situation head on. Every pro-life woman on here who is post-abortive (I’m not, but there are some who are) have said that abortion–NOT pregnancy–made their life worse. That once they got the right kind of help and support to deal with the regret, life got better. Carla has talked about her experience more than once, and I’m sure she’s not the only one.
As to the hanger image, how many women actually did that before abortion was legal? Was really as rampant as pro-choicers say? My guess is the numbers wouldn’t be completely accurate because I doubt every woman who did that is going to come forward (and some may even be dead, may their souls rest in peace in the arms of Jesus forever, AMEN). But anyway, that’s a question in my mind.
P.S. Carla, Amen on that “abortion is NEVER safe for the baby.”
Christine must truly enjoy the 56 percent of her salary going to taxation as well as the state going broke and soon demanding an increase, as they are contemplating phasing out tax deductions due to in part rising healthcare costs.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/17/us-sweden-economy-insight-idUSBREA2G0KA20140317
Christine better pray that her welfare state is sustainable in 2014 but by all accounts, Swedes will be taxed out of house and home (from 56 to 60 percent) after the September elections there.
Congrats Christine on living it “up” for now, HAHA…
MiT – no I haven’t!! But I’ve read the PB book and it’s even funnier than the movie.
“Christine” calls a fellow woman “ho-ho” and then screams her outrage over the misogyny of pro-lifers? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.
Oh good grief. They get loonier and loonier by the day.
Hey Christine, I’m a pro-life woman and I LOVE sex!!! LOVE LOVE LOVE it! And am not one bit embarrassed to say so. I just don’t think I should be able to kill any babies made while I enjoy it.
Sex makes babies. You do know that, right? Thats where they come from. Not from storks. Just checking…I know biology is a tough subject for you folks.
LibertyBelle– “Abby normal.” — Igor ”You got me an ABNORMAL brain???”–Frederick Frankenstein (quotes from Mel Brooks’ YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN) I’m telling you…totally quotable. It’s done in black and white and a parody on Horror films. (I don’t watch horror, but I liked this). It’s not bloody, either. Peter Boyle played the Frankenstein Monster (he was Ray and Robert’s Dad on EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND). Gene Wilder is in this, as well as Cloris Leachman, Marty Feldman…just a fantastic cast.
Sydney M,
I totally LOL’ed on your “I love sex” line. That was classic. That is just plain awesomeness wrapped up in laugh out loud perfection. And SO TRUE. There ARE pro-life women who enjoy sex (yes, I’m one of them: happily married, and a mom, do the math, right?) You made my day with that line. I’m going to be giggling every time I think of it and I’m SO going to have to show my husband that post, he’ll laugh, too!
Mother in Texas…no way. No way! There are two of us? There are at least two pro-life women who enjoy sex? But I’ve been told over and over we don’t exist.
Sydney M.,
I know, right? Oh and to make it sound even more outlandish, I’m a Roman Catholic Christian who doesn’t use artificial birth control (I only use Natural Family Planning) and I’ve used it both to ACHIEVE and AVOID pregnancy. I don’t have a lot of kids, either. I must be imaginary because I’ve been told such a thing can’t exist. I’ve been told NFP doesn’t work and that the Catholic Church wants its members to just have dozens of children and doesn’t care about the family’s situation or anything.
Gee, maybe we should call MYTH BUSTERS.
1: do all swedes call women derogatory names, or just you?
2: abortion mortality in sweden is about 99%, for the unborn people who end up in pieces in a glass jar. Do swedish abortionists also kill babies born alive like they do here? If so, then the mortality is 100%.
“Put..the..candle BACK..” ;>)
And since I like a roll in the hay, that makes 3.
Um guys? There are *three* pro-life women who like LOVE sex.
What are the chances? It’s like finding three unicorns in a field of leprechauns.
“awwww you guys are so adorable, defending the right to subjugate women together. What a dynamic bunch.”
And we’re not punishing the woman – we’re helping her create good from and evil situation. – no, for some you are extending the evil situation
Even if she doesn’t keep that baby, well maybe there’s an adoptive family who’s been waiting for that kid.– sure, if the woman concerned is happy to choose that path, otherwise its enforced gestation.
Rape is evil. Yes, so why heap violence upon violence? – rape is an act of force. So is enforced gestation and delivery.
No one said women can’t make their own decisions. But they shouldn’t be able to just kill their babies. – which one is it? Allowed to make whatever decisions you agree with?
Sorry. – sorry for what? Wanting to force women to adhere to your beliefs?
When your “movement” begins to abandon ship will you stay? – what, when every woman emigrates from the US?
Women DIE from your “safe, legal” abortion. Women are physically injured in botched abortions. Safe as kittens. So very safe. – safer than childbirth.
And what do we hear from the die hards on this blog? ::crickets::
– well that’s not true.
A woman who was raped needs love and help and counseling – not abortion. – love and help and counselling, and choice. Let the woman concerned decide.
Violence is not the answer to violence. A horrifying abortion is not what a woman who was raped needs. – an abortion isn’t horrifying. Enforced gestation and delivery is the violence on violence act.
We’re FOR women. – only on your own terms.
The thing about rape is, it’s already a violent act, why heap another violent act (abortion) upon it? – why don’t you ask the victim of rape if she would find an abortion or gestation and delivery to be the more ‘violent’ act.
but why is abortion the only answer? – it’s not, but it is one of the available choices according to what the woman concerned wants, not what you want.
Why is it every time we make a suggestion to the alternative you act like the woman carrying the pregnancy to term and either keeping said baby or putting the little one up for adoption is a fate worse than death? – I don’t. All I am objecting to is your desire to deny women the choice which best suits them and to force them to follow a path you would choose for them.
Reality,
I do know rape victims. They didn’t want abortion–even if they didn’t get pregnant. And in the case of the one who did get pregnant, she didn’t want abortion either.
I am for women. I’m for women not having their uterus possibly perforated by abortion instruments.
I think those so-called statistics on abortion being “safer” are from extreme situations and not the usual situation that MOST women are in. My Type 1 Diabetic sister had 3 healthy pregnancies (she’s living, the kids are living, everyone is healthy–yes sis still has Type 1 Diabetes, but she takes care herself), She had her kids via C-section and is doing fine. I’m hypoglycemic and made it through pregnancy and delivery fine despite the baloney headed nurse and OB/GYN I had to deal with (I was also anemic while pregnant, and STILL made it through). I know women who were put on bed rest who made it through pregnancy and delivery and afterwards just fine, too. Even some women in serious situations who made it through. And you know what, they have no regrets about it. They have come across as stronger, more confident women for it.
Hardships are a part of life. Life sometimes is the pits. We live in an imperfect world, which is why you have to find something positive to believe in and hope to hold onto. Abortion doesn’t do anything except put you through unnecessary surgery/medication and a dead human being.
Explain to me how abortion “best suits” any woman? ANY woman–no matter her circumstances–even ones who could care for the baby and could provide without any issue of money, family, and the like. Because there are women in those situations who are having abortions, and you support them getting one since it’s “their choice” and “best suits” them. How does abortion “best suit” them? Even if they’re perfectly healthy and can provide for said child no strain on family or finances at all, etc. How does abortion best suit that person?
9ek–That was awesome. “Pick zee candle up!” “Frau Belleur!” (I could go on and on).
One of the reasons I waste my words of wisdom is for the abortion advocates who read without commenting. In order to keep oneself convinced that humans are disposable and parents are allowed to kill their children, one must keep their eyes firmly closed and their heart and mind closed as well. I have already told in comments that having been the victim of assault as well as postabortive, I am in a better position to speak on the subject than a male abortion advocate who cannot possibly experience at least one of those events. I tell my friends that only one of those 2 events provokes nightmares now, and it wasn’ t the assault.
A rapist is like a robber, and as far as I’m concerned, he’s only able to rob me of one awful day (he was incarcerated, but roams free today). The rest my life is mine not his. When a mother aborts a child conceived in rape, she allows his crime to keep hurting, hurting to the point of death for the innocent child. For some post abortive victims of assault, regret for the abortion continues long after they recover from the initial assault.
Finally, I cannot say emphatically enough how loathesome it is for abortion fans to pregnancy-shame the brave women who give life to their innocent children. Shame on you, abortion advocates. Shame on you.
Did I just hear a horse’s fearful whinny?
I do know rape victims. They didn’t want abortion–even if they didn’t get pregnant. And in the case of the one who did get pregnant, she didn’t want abortion either. – fine. That’s good. For some. Not for others. Who are you to decide.
I am for women. – on your terms.
I’m for women not having their uterus possibly perforated by abortion instruments. – as compared to the risks of pregnancy and delivery? All the follow-on impacts of having an unwanted child as a result of rape? I’m for women not being forced to endure that which they do not wish to.
The rest of your comment indicates that you don’t grasp the concept that not all women think, feel and behave as you do. Or that they should not have to do so.
Hardships are a part of life. Life sometimes is the pits. We live in an imperfect world, which is why you have to find something positive to believe in and hope to hold onto. – indeed. And forcing women to endure something they may consider a worsening of the situation isn’t helpful.
Abortion doesn’t do anything except put you through unnecessary surgery/medication and a dead human being. – enforced gestation and delivery puts people through unnecessary surgery and medication. Some women consider that abortion is necessary. Just because you don’t agree should not impact on them.
Explain to me how abortion “best suits” any woman? ANY woman–no matter her circumstances– ask the women concerned. Unlike you, I’m not making assumptions about others. I leave it up to the woman to choose what is best for her.
even ones who could care for the baby and could provide without any issue of money, family, and the like. - endure an unwanted pregnancy and delivery and then raise a child born of rape? Works for some, not for others. Let them choose. Pregnancy and childbirth have physical, emotional and mental impacts. Choosing to continue with a pregnancy and childbirth has a good chance of being a positive experience. Being forced to do so, less so.
Because there are women in those situations who are having abortions, and you support them getting one since it’s “their choice” and “best suits” them. How does abortion “best suit” them? – again, ask them. I’m not the one forcing my beliefs onto the lives of others.
Even if they’re perfectly healthy and can provide for said child no strain on family or finances at all, etc. How does abortion best suit that person? – you’ve already asked this question just above. And I answered it.
It is amazing how people on this blog bat around the experience of rape and the children conceived thus just to prove their point. What’s missing are the first person accounts of the people who have been there. How dare you use their trauma for your own personal gain! Reality and Christine why don’t you run your comments past the Ryan Brombergers and Rebecca Kiesslings of this world and see how they feel about it? Can you say it to their face?
Dearest 9ek,
I am so sorry you were raped. I am so sorry that you went through that.
I am sorry that those who support abortion after rape are here. Thinking that they actually could KNOW what you have been through and thinking they can actually SPEAK to it. They can’t. But you can.
And I am so grateful that you did. Thank you.
Reality,
Which prolifer is saying or has ever said I WILL DECIDE FOR ALL WOMEN? cut and paste
No it’s not.
That’s not true.
That’s not the case.
AREN’T arguments.
Put a sock in it.
Reality,
Your non-answers tell me one thing: Even if a woman ISN’T raped, in the best possible circumstances to raise a child–mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, financially, psychologically and has absolutely NOTHING standing in the way of her raising that child or even having that child–you still would be fine with her having an abortion for any or no reason, which means, you view the pre-born human being as completely disposable no matter what. That’s frightening to me.
At least some pro-choicers will say in those situations they’d recommend the woman continue the pregnancy.
9ek,
I am so sorry of what you’ve been through. God bless and I’m glad you’ve found a way through it! That takes a lot of grace. *HUGS*
Mother in Texas,
EXACTLY!!
But why do proaborts only want to argue the 1% of abortions due to rape??!! They go straight to that. ”You would FORCE a woman to bear her rapist’s child??!!” Hey guess what? When moms hear the heartbeat no matter what they have been through…….when moms see that baby on ultrasound NO MATTER THE CONCEPTION 85% choose life. Whether poverty or domestic violence or no education or joblessness or homelessness or NONE of the above…..moms choose life and take the help that is offered by US! No “force” involved. With no help offered by proaborts btw.
always always always go to the extreme and ignore the 99% done for convenience
I can say that to the Brombergs and Kiesslings of this world. Since my stance is “Let the woman concerned make her own dec
ision, rape or no rape”, I can not understand who would be offended, except a true “pro lifer” of course, who is nauseated by independent women.
Somewhere before, or in another thread, the figure 50% aborted after rape was mentioned.. I had a friend, we lost contact later, raped by five men, who did not get pregnant. She repeatedly said “Thank God at least I did not get pregnant”. That proves nothing – your examples proves nothing. Well, maybe that we are different and make different decisions.
Do you dare tell that crying, horrified, devastated rape victim she may not abort? No I did not think so.
Re economy: we have not been even close to temporarily closing state functions. That would be a sign of really bad finances. Do you know any country tha
Carla, please give statistic evidence, a reference and a link to back up your claim of 85% choosing not to abort after ultrasound. I can give you evidence in the other direction but you first. And even if 85% were true, which it is not, what about the other 15%? Sorry, girls, “pro life” tells you must give birth. I ask for reference and a link because I think it is time you “pro lifers” learn some debating skills, one of which is numbers should be verified. Another one is that anecdotes do not count, like “I know a woman who…”.
Now you will say I did that in my previous post, but I also said “This proves nothing”
I was nauseated by seeing a jar fill up with my child’s blood, Christine. Murder has no relation to a woman’s independence. Many women have written testimonials on Silent no more that they were coerced, some even threatened. You want very badly to think that we are not really horrified by abortion itself. You want very badly to believe your unborn children are disposable, that if people are small enough, you can kill them. I think you’re sick. Get well soon.
To 9ek: Many women have written testimonials on One in Three about what relief their abortions were. So the simple fact is that some women regret it, and some do not. Just like every decision we make in life. Or maybe we should have a new set of rules applying, of course to women only, in a “pro life” world:
Women go through divorces, meaning they regret that they married that specific man. Solution: arranged marriages for women, or men just pick the woman they want to marry. No decision to be regretted.
Women regret they have chosen (oops, again!) a certain line of education: Solution: women should not obtain higher education. No decision to be regretted.
Women regret they work in the work they do: Solution: women should not work. No decision to be regretted.
I feel sorry you reacted in that way after your abortion, I truely do. But I did not react like that, and many women agree with me. Should your experiences and your beliefs be law for everyone? Of course not. Should my experiences and my beliefs be law for everyone? Of course not. But I have never claimed that they should be, though you have claimed your experiences and beliefs should be law for everyone.
I am not the one who is sick (although I had a bit of a cold last week, but it is ok now). What is sick is “pro life” and its ambitions to rule the lives of those who do not adhere to your beliefs.
To Carla, and I quote you: “Which prolifer is saying or has ever said I WILL DECIDE FOR ALL WOMEN?” Every “prolifer” does, because you cut down the alternatives birth and keep the child/birth and adoption/abortion down to the two first, for ALL women. And I can not understand how you can deny it. Because that limitation of our choices (sorry, but I had to use the forbidden word again!) is at the very core of your sick movement.
So the simple fact is that some women regret it, and some do not.
Some women who suffocate their toddlers regret it, and some do not.
Hi Prax,
Some people who kill their spouses regret it and some don’t. Probably depends on whether or not they wound up in prison.
I wonder if Bernie Madoff regrets devastating so many lives, including the suicide of his son……or just the fact he got caught.
Christine, abortion isn’t wrong because some women regret it. Abortion is wrong because it kills an innocent, vulnerable human being. Yes, I want to see “kill my unborn child” removed from the list of legal choices for pregnant women. I’ve never denied that fact. And while you can deny that it was morally wrong to kill your unborn child, that doesn’t change the fact that it was. There is nothing honorable in killing another human being because they get in the way of our personal goals. The fact that you chose death for your offspring in order to avoid where you assumed motherhood would lead is incredibly sad and wrong. The fact that you want other women to be able to make the same choice is also sad and wrong.
How dare you use their trauma for your own personal gain! – how exactly do you see that being so? What do I gain and how?
Reality and Christine why don’t you run your comments past the Ryan Brombergers and Rebecca Kiesslings of this world and see how they feel about it? Can you say it to their face? – say what? That women who become pregnant through rape should be able to choose to avoid the added trauma of pregnancy and delivery if that is what is the best path for them? I’ve not said, and am not saying, that all rape pregnancies should be aborted. I would tell Ryan and Rebecca that their mothers made the choice to have them and that’s great but that some women may choose not to.
Which prolifer is saying or has ever said I WILL DECIDE FOR ALL WOMEN? cut and paste – agitating for the denial of abortion is agitating to make a decision for all women.
In the circumstances you describe MIT, it’s probably unlikely that a woman would choose to have an abortion. But it’s not up to me, I WILL NOT DECIDE FOR ALL WOMEN.
But why do proaborts only want to argue the 1% of abortions due to rape??!! – what, so you haven’t seen any of the other arguments in support of abortion? Health? Sanity? Career or study? Personal or financial circumstances?
“Or maybe we should have a new set of rules applying, of course to women only, in a “pro life” world:”
Where in the western world can men kill children and be praised/supported for it, and have it completely legal?
At least y’all could try to have arguments that make sense.
And to those of you who said “pro life” is not negative about sex… check out this one. It is from a “pro life” site… I think you know it.
https://www.jillstanek.com/2014/03/sunday-word-dont-use-your-body-for-sexual-sin-like-the-people-who-dont-know-god/
Deluded, a child is by definition born. Before that it is a foetus. So the reply to your question is nowhere (at least to my knowledge). Up until the time limit, different in different countries, it is a womans choice and her choice only.
Christine,
You are reading God’s word. You have an issue with God and His Word then you take it up with Him.
Ask Him what He means by sexual sin. Ask Him why He tells us to be pure because that is His plan to keep us safe. From STD’s. From broken hearts. From adultery. From promiscuity. From abortion.
Sex within a committed, monogamous marriage? Wonderful! Amazing!! Awesome!! Everything that it is supposed to be!!
You don’t hate prolifers. You hate God. Ask yourself why.
And I will be praying for you.
I responded to you Christine on that other thread. Sexual sin is another word for sexual perversions. That is what that thread is about. Your hatred for pro-life is again clouding your reasoning ability.
Oh Carla, you know my thoughts better than I do myself. I am impressed. But I do not hate god. Why should I waste energy on hating something that does not exist?
“Re economy: we have not been even close to temporarily closing state functions. That would be a sign of really bad finances. Do you know any country tha”
No Christine, a sign of really bad finances is taxing citizens beyond their means.
No Christine.
God knows your thoughts better than you know them yourself.
His existence does not hinge upon whether we believe He exists.
Thomas: the true sign of bad economy is constantly using more money than you have. When was the last time USA did not have a budget deficit?
Carla: I will not interfere in your belief in a god. If it makes you happy, then stay with it. But it is as credible as Santa Claus and anyone who tries to use god to rule other peoples lives should stop that immediately.
Christine, you still have not responded to all that hoopla in Sweden over rising healthcare costs and the government wanting to phase out tax deductions and raise taxation to 60 percent. All this coupled with salary issues in Sweden, cost of living issues for average Swedes and high youth unemployment rate in your country.
I want to know how is your welfare state handling all this. Oops I know: after September your salary will shrink even more, you will end up paying more for healthcare (with out-of-pocket nominal fees increased as well) and your standard of living will plunge. It may serve you best to be more concerened about this fiasco unfolding in Sweden than to comment on American politics.
You really do not know much do you? Is that true, or did you hear it on FoxNews haha?
Just today I had my raise in pay – 3% up. Of my salary I pay around 30% in tax. We have a VAT of 20 % the total cost of what we buy.
We have had four cuts in taxation during these last years. It was a fifth to come, but never was. No party of those who are possible Winners of the election are argueing a raise in taxes. And do you know what I pay for one day in hospital if I should need one? 80 SEK ($13). My son is born premature and suffer from JIA. We could not get an extra insurance for him, meaning in USA we could not have insured him at all. His medication would cost us 145000 SEK/year. Divide by 6.7 to get it in dollar. We pay 1600 SEK/year for that. The rest is covered by taxes. so you are 1.wrong in your assumption of taxes rising, 2.wrong in our economy collapsing and 3.totally wrong slandering the welfare state when talking to me. I am forever grateful I do not live in the United States, and the reason I am here is that our “prolifers” gain inspiration from your “prolifers” – that is why it is a double gain fighting to put “prolife” where it belongs, in the dustbin.
Now which country had to shut down parts of it administration a while ago… let’s see… hmmm…
I think that you do not pay attention to any references. In my comment about Sweden I included a reference from Reuters not Fox News.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/17/us-sweden-economy-insight-idUSBREA2G0KA20140317#sthash.rxfdxkIJ.dpuf
Instead of providing inaccurate information and claiming that we don’t provide references when we in fact do from very reputable sources, just pay attention okay….
In terms of pro-lifers/Christians (at least pro-life Roman Catholic Christians) and whether or not we view sex as good or bad read Christopher West’s THE GOOD NEWS ABOUT SEX AND MARRIAGE: http://www.amazon.com/Good-News-About-Marriage-Revised/dp/0867166193/ref=la_B001K8H50E_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1395688529&sr=1-1
Also by Christopher West, is WOMAN GOD’S MASTERPIECE (that I listened to on audio CD, while pregnant. It made me feel really BLESSED to be a woman): http://www.amazon.com/Woman-Gods-Masterpiece-Christopher-West/dp/B001OVEPNM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395688636&sr=8-1&keywords=Woman+God%27s+Masterpiece
If pro-lifers were so down on Sex and Marriage why would a DEVOUT Roman Catholic Pro-Life husband and father dare to say “The Good News About Sex And Marriage” and “Woman: God’s Masterpiece”? It doesn’t make sense UNLESS there were pro-lifers who really believe those things (as several pro-life women on here have stated).
I observe 2 rationales for why abortion fans want to be able to legally kill pre-born children: because they want to, or because they want to. Hand-wringing over hard cases quickly gives way to claims that pro-lifers only want to ruin other people’s fun. They have no actual debating skills, just a big round carousel of excuses and insults. Get well, soon.