Breaking news: Obama attacks Gianna Jessen ad
UPDATE, 1:50p: Gianna forwarded me a great commentary by Mona Charen today, “Abortions do sometimes produce live births,” with this excerpt:
I’ve received a number of letters from viewers. This one caught my eye: “I am a pediatrician. When I was a pediatric resident on a neonatal intensive care rotation, we were routinely called to resuscitate infants. In one instance I was called to pronounce a baby dead who had been born an hour earlier after a failed abortion. We were not called to resuscitate the baby immediately after the delivery as the intent was abortion. I write to attest that babies are sometimes born alive after abortion and then put aside to die.”
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UPDATE, 1:30p: First lie in Obama ad: attributing the Gianna ad to John McCain, rather than BornAliveTruth.org.
Second lie: “votes taken out of context”? A vote cannot be taken out of context. It’s a vote. Notice this is Obama’s excuse for every indictment against him.
Third lie: “Obama has always supported medical care to protect infants.” FALSE. Remember this, from Obama’s 2002 Senate floor speech against Born Alive?
Obama is acknowledging in that audio clip that a baby could be aborted alive but argued against calling a 2nd physician to assess and potentially provide medical care (the 1st physician being the abortionist) because it would place a “burden” on the “original decision” of the mother to abort. How much clearer can Obama’s position be?
Also don’t forget the Obama campaign admitted to the New York Sun on August 18 that he voted against the identical version of Born Alive as state senator that passed overwhelmingly on the federal level.
Ben Smith at Politico.com is now covering this, as is Hotair.com.
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UPDATE, 11a: Michelle Malkin’s all over this in a post entitled, “Who’s afraid of Gianna Jessen? Answer: Barack Obama.”
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Yesterday Barack Obama quietly began airing an ad in NM and OH, where BornAliveTruth.org began airing its Gianna ad on Tuesday.
Obama has been drawn out.
Here it is…
In response are the following statements:
Statement from Gianna Jessen:
Mr. Obama is clearly blinded by political ambition given his attack on me this week. All I asked of him was to do the right thing: support medical care and protection for babies who survive abortion – as I did 31 years ago. He voted against such protection and care four times even though the U.S. Senate voted 98-0 in favor of a bill identical to the one Obama opposed. In the words of his own false and misleading ad, his position is downright vile. Mr. Obama said at the recent Saddleback Forum that the question of when babies should get human rights was above his pay grade. Such vacillation and cowardice in public policy almost left me to die and no one should have to go through what I went through.
Statement from Jill Stanek:
It is despicable, repulsive and beneath contempt that Barack Obama would attack Gianna Jessen. She is a courageous abortion survivor and living miracle who would not be with us today if Obama’s policies had been in place when she was born. Mr. Obama continues to mislead the American people on this issue, he voted four times against medical care and protection for babies who survive abortions in the Illinois State Senate, while the U.S. Senate was voting 98-0 to pass an identical bill. Mr. Obama needs to come forward and tell the American people that he understands people like Gianna Jessen, and that he will support and enforce Born Alive Infant protections — that these are living, breathing human beings who have come into our world and deserve protection in the law and should receive medical care at health care facilities. These babies have the same rights as the rest of us.
More coming. Stay tuned.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Life or death.
Obama made a choice in Illinois – death.
I’m not surprised that the Obaminator attacked Gianna.
She was a “punishment” that survived all efforts to be killed/ silenced and is now staring him in the face and exposing his despicable stand and voting record in the IL senate.
Its not anti choice, its ANTI ABORTION for ANY case.
And I thought McCain was for those “exceptions”?
The bill was to protect babies that SURVIVE abortions. Those babies are BORN and need medical care.
WOWEY WOW WOW WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This kind of exposure through Obama’s own ads is awesome! More people will learn about Obama’s defense of infanticide through his own lame ads.
Keep up the good work Jill!
Ezek, I agree. Every time Obama opens his mouth about abortion, he sticks his foot in it.
I’m really astounded by the “out of context” claim in his ad. That only makes sense when the context changes the meaning. There was NO “context” to the vote on that bill that changes anything. It was an up or down vote, and he voted DOWN … FOUR TIMES.
Obama’s lies are despicable.
IIRC, McCain does support abortion in cases of rape or incest, and Palin only supports abortion if the life of the mother is endangered. So there’s another Obama lie.
Obama’s on TV talking about the economy. His simplistic approach at solving every propblem is another government agency, appeasing dictators, taxing the rich.
This guy thinks government is a solution to every single problem. He hasn’t got a clue.
Excuse me, but governemnt caused the problem when it enacted laws that required lenders to lend to people who were bad credit risks.
I’ll tell you what people, if this guy is elected, this country is headed for a Depression that will dwarf 1929. Why, because his tax policies will cause a run on the stock market prior to the end of the year. That’s all we need right now is more government interference.
The more I learn about this guy, the more terrified I become. Under him, this country will be irrevocably damaged, spiritually, morally, and financially.
Perhaps we deserve a president like him. Perhaps this country needs to go through hell at the hands of Liberalism so that it can be soundly defeated once and for all. I gurantee that if Obama is elected, this country will see bad times like never before experienced. Perhaps this spoiled, self-absorbed, baby-killing, Oprah decieved generation deserves it.
“The more I learn about this guy, the more terrified I become. Under him, this country will be irrevocably damaged, spiritually, morally, and financially.”
———————————–
We Trust in the Lord…and keep praying that this abomination will never succeed. But we keep rowing to shore, as the saying goes.
It is really getting harder and harder to respect this man as a person, to believe that he at least has integrity… My goodness, just admit it; quality of life ethic says that those who survive abortions would have a terrible life, so therefore we shouldn’t prolong their life. Gianna is an exception.
At least if he were to say something like that, I could at least respect his honesty, but my word…
Doyle said:
“I’m really astounded by the “out of context” claim in his ad. “
Yeah, especially when Obama’s OWN CAMPAIGN outted him for lying about why he opposed the bill within 24 hours after an interview where he made those claims about the effects of that law.
This is their most damning admission of the entire campaign. Everyone needs to read Jill’s blog post on it here https://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/08/breaking_news_o.html
“His campaign yesterday acknowledged that he had voted against an identical bill in the state Senate”
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again:
“Everyone lies”~~Gregory House
**this applies to politicians running for President**
Midnight,
I’m sure you have no problem with an outright LIAR for a president….but a lot of people with moral values do.
Maybe, Midnite, but then some liars lie more often and more seriously than others. I’m maybe not very up on the issue, but are you aware of any occasion on which President Bush has lied?
Why does the ad for Mr. Obama address Mr. McCain for the ad about Gianna? I thought that Mr. McCain had nothing to do with it; the ad is an independent ad.
I love this quote from Mona Charen on Townhall.com:
“Barack Obama is a charming and intelligent man. But there is no other way to interpret his position on BAIPA than this: A woman who chooses an abortion is entitled to a dead child no matter what. That is an abortion extremist.”
I forgot to include the link to that quote:
http://townhall.com/columnists/Column2.aspx?UrlTitle=abortions_do_sometimes_produce_live_births&ns=MonaCharen&dt=09/19/2008®istered=true&comments=true&submitted=true
RSD
I never said I wanted an outright liar for President. For the record, I dont like Obama at all. I dont really like McCain either. So I might not vote at all this year or write in Mickey Mouse on the ballot.
Jon,
I cant think of one of the top of my head. I’d have to check. But I am sure he has once or twice. Just like Clinton lied to us.
Gianna is amazing!!
She brought the Colorado House of Representatives
to the point where you could hear a pin drop with her
singing.
Then Representative Ted Harvey explained to the body that
she was an abortion survivor, on a day when they were trying
to pass a resolution to honor Planned Parenthood.
It was the most stunning moment I’ve witnessed in 20 years
of lobbying at the CO legislature!!
I guess Obama forgot that BornAliveTruth.org’s advertisements were not made my John McCain or his campaign… lol!!!
Keep spreading the truth Gianna and Jill!
What we are seeing now is the messiah’s campaign in full meltdown, having reached new depths of desperation. We know the truth about his vote in the Born Alive Bill in Illinois, and the more he tries to lie his way out of it, the more his lie (and his own lack of credibility) will be exposed.
And that is not the only thing he is lying about. The spanish language ad trying to drive a wedge between Hispanics and McCain used out-of-context verbiage to flail against McCain’s immigration efforts. Wrong again. Even some members of the MSM are exposing this.
Barack Obama is not ready to lead. He has no experience. There is nothing in his background that justifies serious consideration for the most important job in the world. And now with poll numbers dropping he is showing himself as an angry young man. Where has the halo gone? He is lashing out and telling his supporters to get in the face of opponents. He has stooped to ridculing his opponent’s not using e-mail and the internet as a basis of what a president needs to know, meaning, one supposes, that everyone who contributes to this blog is qualified for high office. Amazing. And by the way, Mc Cain’s POW injuries are said to actually prohibit him from using a keyboard.
I really believe Obama has a character defect bordering on mental illness and insanity which is only made more terrifying my his abilty to conceal and hide it.
Let’s put the whole package togther.
His past associations with left wing radicals like Ayers, Wright and Rezko. His association with the most corrupted political machine in the world in Chicago. His Muslim roots which are still there an donly masked by a false Christianity. His endorsement by just about every radical and dictator in the world.
His surreal support of abortion while at the same time claiming to be a Christian. And doing this at the expense of the most least of these, i.e., born alive survivors of abortion and embodied by Gianna Jessen.
His true abhoorence with middle America by his guns and religion comment. What, he claims to be a Christian and cna’t udnerstand how people can fall back on their faith?
His babies as punishment comment reveasl a total lack of understanding of the value of life.
His wife anti-America comments reveals a person who wants change, and change her way. What exactly do yoo think a Michele Obam America would look like. Now that’s terrifying.
Do you guys really know who this Obama is. The more I peel back the layers, the more terrified I become. And that is exactly where the left wants us. They’ve got another thing coming. The church is waking up to who this guy is and there will be a calling out to God like the world has never known.
Friends, this guy is a walking nuclear-bomb, a danger to our country more severe than that nutcase over in Iran.
Can anyone spell a-n-t-i-c-h-r-i-s-t as in an antichrist spirt?
Revelation 13:8, “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
The arrognace and self-worsip of Barak Obama is evident. The fact that many people can be decieved so easily by him is another sign of his dark character.
Daniel 8:23,25 “And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.”
Did anyone watch the Democrat National Convention? I submit that this was no governemntal set-up with he columns and such, this was a religious temple with Obama at the center of it, declaring himself to be the savior of the world. This is an abomination.
2 Corinthians 11:3-4, “But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.”
Remember Obama’s heartily support by Oprah Winfrey, an apostate and denier of Jesus Christ. Obama attends a cheuch which is Christian in name only.
Revelation 13:7, “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”
Does what we are going through on this blog bear any semblance to this at all? Isn’t Obama making war with is Christians? Does he not want to squash our voice via FOCA?
Revelation 13:3-4, “And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?”
Who travelled to Europe and sought world approval?
Mark 4:15, “And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.”
It is obvious that Obama does not in fact follow God’s word.
Let me ask you this. If Obama is truly a Muslim convert to Christianity why are Muslim leaders supporting him and not calling for his execution? The penalty for converting to Christinaity is death. Do you think that maybe these Muslim leaders know something about Obama that we don’t?
Pro-life Christians we must pray and fast. This is it my friends, we get one more chance.
The infanticide, or “Obamacide” issue is like a tar baby to Obama.. the more he hits at it, the more he gets stuck to it. I guess he never read “Br’er Rabbit”.
With this dishonest attack, plus…
– his lying racist ad to America’s Latinos
– his claiming that McCain’s honest ads are lying
– his clinging to falsehoods to cover up his pro-infanticide stance
– the revelation of his violating U.S. policy in trying to negotiate with Iraq to delay troop withdrawls…
Obama’s campaign is in full Trotsky-Goebels propaganda mode — with big media on his side.
Jill:
Are you willing to talk to the people who are financing Born ALive Truth and ask them if they would be willing to finance ads setting the economic record straight and criticizing the Democratic Party for doing so many different things to damage the economy. This includes but is not limited to: destroying jobs for poor minority kids through a big increase in the minimum wage; refusing to allow new oil drilling, causing the price of fuel and food to be much higher than otherwise; forcing banks in the 1990’s to make high-risk loans to people who could not pay them back, thereby causing the present mortgage and credit crisis; and not allowing Bush and McCain to do anything to solve the problem when they tried a few years ago.
The Democrats caused our economic mess but could ride to victory by conning swing voters into thinking that Bush and the Republicans did it. Then all would be lost for our cause.
By all means fight on this issue and expose Obama’s lies and cruelty and inhumanity, but economics is where the election will be won or lost and we must convince the Republicans to fight back hard in this area, if we are to achieve a big victory this year.
HisMan-
The reason they dn’t call for his death is simple-
They don’t like America or Ameircans, period. Why call for the death of one when many would rather go after what they see as the whole problem?
They don’t like us for a variety of reasons, adding, the fact that Obama, and people like him, are in this country and living well and good, have positions in our government etc just adds more to the fire.
he says that mccain doesn’t support abortion in the cases of rape or the mother’s health.
is that supposed to be a bad thing?
if i had no idea what was going on in the world of politics that statement right there would be enough to make me want to vote for mccain!
I don’t see a single instance where Obama personally attacked Gianna in this ad.
All he did was say that he does not support infanticide. Which is true.
All he is doing is parrying a hysterical ad that claims “OMG OBAMA KILLZ TEH BEHBEEZ!”
This ad by Obama is appalling.
……….
Joe, I agree that there are many other issues that should be emphasized as well.
………
DEM – Mayor Richard Daley of CHICAGO been silent during this campaign. I think he has a moral responsibility as a Catholic to speak out against abortion and speak the truth about Obama’s vote regardless of his political party.
Please Mayor Daley, do the right thing!
LOL @ your response. Nobody attacked Gianna Jessen, they just said the message in your ad is a sleazy, despicable lie, which it is, regardless of who you got to parrot it.
Daley is Catholic??? Oh Geeeezzzz!
Erin at September 19, 2008 12:41 PM
reality at September 19, 2008 12:54 PM
1. The votes are not taken out of context at all – if anything, Obama has been caught in an outright lie on this issue. He has repeatedly claimed that he would have voted for the IL Born Alive Infant Protection Act if it were worded the same as the federal. On March 12th 2003 in his own committee Obama made the vote to make it identical, then he voted it down.
2. If there really was nothing wrong with his position on this issue, then why didn’t Obama stand on the principle of stating that a law was in place instead of stating that he would have voted?
3. Do you understand the law Obama speaks of:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/072005100K6.htm
If the law was in place, then there were violations going on, how come he didn’t call for an investigation?
3. He’s calling both Jill and Gianna liars – remember he “approved this message”.
Now my question for you – I’ve done the research – Is Jill a liar? Would you call her that to her face? How about in front of a national audience?
Why bother come to a web site where liars hang out?
The only one hysterical is Obama – and you.
One more thing I forgot – Obama really can’t address this issue – it’s above his pay grade.
JoAnna:
IIRC, McCain does support abortion in cases of rape or incest, and Palin only supports abortion if the life of the mother is endangered. So there’s another Obama lie.
The ad says “McCain is running on a platform to ban abortion, even in cases of rape and incest,” which is absolutely true. The Republican platform does indeed favor banning abortion in cases of rape and incset.
Chris- I would call neither of them liars, and neither does this ad.
This ad says that they are WRONG. Which I fully agree with.
I watched it, and saw no attack on Jessen at all.
“Obama really can’t address this issue – it’s above his pay grade.
Posted by: Chris Arsenault at September 19, 2008 12:58 PM”
——————————————
Somebody caught with his hand in the cookie jar and it’s above his pay grade to admit it?
Dang…at least have the decency to accept that
you lied or were wrong about something…maybe THAT’s what’s above his pay grade.
I’m really astounded by the “out of context” claim in his ad. That only makes sense when the context changes the meaning. There was NO “context” to the vote on that bill that changes anything. It was an up or down vote, and he voted DOWN … FOUR TIMES.
Doyle, at least every time but the last, the context was that Obama and others didn’t want the rights of women taken away nor the doctor-patient relationship commpromised.
reality @ 1:03 PM
Hey reality – if you’re victimized, do you get to kill your assailant’s son or daughter?
What’s your preferred method? Automatic weapons? Or do you prefer vacuum aspiration?
Gotta love that right to kill an innocent one because daddy committed a crime against mommy.
How come all those men who are cheated on by their wives and then kill their children aren’t set free – it’s the same principle there. What’s good for the goose you know…
Chris:
The votes are not taken out of context at all
Of course they are. There’s already a law on the books banning infanticide. A majority of the state legislators — not just Obama — (including many Republicans) voted against this bill, because it was a bad bill. These legislators don’t believe infanticide should be legal — that is crazy.
2. I have no idea what you’re saying here.
3. yep
4. Jill and Gianna ARE liars.
Why bother come to a web site where liars hang out?
Someone has to point out the truth.
Obama is a typical narcissist and a bit of a psychopath with no conscience. Without knowing his whole history, that which he has told us about is a good foundation for the diagnosis of a boardline personality disorder – that encompasses both the narcissism and the anti-social behavior. His desire and need to be loved, actually adored, also fits the criteria of an empty hole that cannot ever be filled … he’s still searching for that he will never find – because he looks outside himself for validation.
Chris —
Hey reality – if you’re victimized, do you get to kill your assailant’s son or daughter?
If the assailant’s son or daughter is inside my body, absolutely.
Erin @ 1:07 PM
Wow – you’re blind and deaf – yet you communicate over the web? Amazing!!! It’s a miracle!!!
Replay the ad, please, then listen carefully – and read:
Wow..that’s both spoken and shows up in type in the ad. You don’t have to imagine it – it’s really there.
Yet, there’s an answer — I must be lying too!!!
Oh – silly me, I should have known – you’re intercepting brainwave messages from the Obamaborg.
What’s next, murder in the streets?
Like I said – Automatic weapons, edged weapons or major suckage machines?
reality,
should we go kill all the children of people that were and are on death row too?
“Accusing Obama of letting infants die? It’s a despicable lie…”
It is. It’s a lie promoted by the McCain campaign, which DOES know better. Jill and Gianna DON’T. I don’t think that they are liars. I think they are ignorant.
reality @ 1:16 PM
Oh…
Reality’s got the truth!!! Yeah!!!
Reality has the truth!!!
Reality has the truth!!!
Wait – is that your truth or my truth?
I know we’re both right!
$$ System Warning: sarcasm credits almost depleted!
And obviously you don’t mind killing your own children. Tell me why anyone should trust you?
I should have known – major suckage machines is the weapon of choice for neutered cowards.
Guys,
Flashing a picture of Gianna Jessen
while at the same time
saying “Obama’s words were taken out of context”
and “the ad is” (falsely)
” accusing Obama of letting babies die”
is a cleverly crafted way of saying she’s either lying
or really dumb and confused.
I’d call that an attack.
Get with the program, people!
Stop burying your head in the sand.
Doug said: “Doyle, at least every time but the last, the context was that Obama and others didn’t want the rights of women taken away”
Doug, there is not woman’s “right to kill a born baby”, is there? Is there?
NONE of the 4 bills he voted against had anything to do with aborion, so he was protecting infanticide ONLY.
It’s like Mona Charen said on Townhall.com: “Barack Obama is a charming and intelligent man. But there is no other way to interpret his position on BAIPA than this: A woman who chooses an abortion is entitled to a dead child no matter what. That is an abortion extremist.”
Can you tell I’m angry? Well I am!
reality @ 1:16,
How do you define a “BAD BILL”?
Erin @ 1:28 PM
Jill and Gianna are being accused of being liars by Obama. It’s their ad – they are the 527 group Obama is referencing: BornAliveTruth.org
You can’t have it both ways – either you believe Jill and Gianna are telling the truth, or you believe Obama is telling the truth. They are diametrically opposed, and you can’t put this on McCain – his voice is not on Gianna’s ad.
That’s the misdirection spin Obama’s camp is pulling – he “approved” that message.
Lies/honesty, true/false, life/death – that’s CHOICE.
Come now – you’re pro-choice – right?
Pick one.
Or is it all indecipherable shades of gray to you – and if so, again, why are you worth listening to?
Is there anyone calling you a liar?
I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m just loving all this attention being paid to this issue… but I’ll bet Obama isn’t!
Doyle, Obama never objected on the grounds that born babies would be protected. His objections had to do with abortion, the doctor-patient relationship, etc., as he noted in the IL Senate proceedings.
Doug @ 1:49,
You are not telling the truth and you know it.
“How do you define a “BAD BILL”?
Posted by: Janet at September 19, 2008 1:44 PM”
————————————
ummm…Bill caught with his pants down in the oval office?
RSD,
ummm…. counterfeit money?
Suggestion to everybody:
Stop arguing endlessly with the abortionists who come to this website to spread their inhuman fallacies. The people in the abortionist movement have a psychological compulsion to support abortion violence and tragically are not going to change. No logic can persuade them.
A much better use of our time would be to leave messages on thousands of websites all over cyberspace (as I do every day) arguing that Obama and the Democratic Party support unlimited killing of unborn children and have an extremely damaging economic and social agenda. Make a point of arguing that their agenda is especially damaging to human beings in the Black and Hispanic communities.
Please do this far and wide from now until election day and spread the word in any other way you can. If we are to stop abortion violence, and soon, there is no substitute for electing a pro-life Republican House, Senate and President.
Look, Erin, we’ve been over this a million and one times. The laws that were on the book did not cover all of the babies who were born alive. If the abortionist determined that the baby wasn’t viable, no other doctor needed to attend.
Viability is subjective, and ever decreasing, so this left many babies at the edge of viability without protection.
Obama knew this, yet voted against the bill 4 times. The first 3 he had the flimsy excuse that there was no neutrality cause to protect abortion (although there was really no need for such a clause to begin with considering this was about BORN children)but the 4th time he put the clause in himself and yet STILL voted against the measure.
His campaign has admitted that he lied about his stance on BAIPA, yet he likes to pretend that never happened and is once again calling us liars for pointing out his lies.
Oh and you know what Erin, you’re a dispicable human being. I’m sorry but the fact that you can sit her and snarkally joke “OMGX THE BABBIEZ” is immature and disgusting. These are not hypothetical globs of cells, but real living children who are born alive and are left to die because their mothers want them that way. That is disgusting and horrific.
Here you go. Here’s a picture of my little boy when he was about 2 weeks old. He was born at 31 weeks, but my water broke at 23 weeks so he was roughly the size/development of a 25 weeker at birth. The stuffed animal on his back is smaller than a beenie baby.
And here he was on his first birthday:
But you’re righ, Erin, we should totally just let these kids die, it’s not like their human beings with rights or anything!
Barack Obama was the only member of the Illinois Senate to speak against a bill that would have granted legal protection to already-born babies still alive after a failed abortion. He used his power to prevent those innocent babies from having the best chance to survive.
Oops, that last comment by Oliver was really from me.
Doug says: “Doyle, Obama never objected on the grounds that born babies would be protected. His objections had to do with abortion, the doctor-patient relationship, etc., as he noted in the IL Senate proceedings.”
Ok look here’s the thing, saving the life of a baby born alive after an abortion does nothing to hurt the abortion rights of the woman. The argument for abortion is that the woman’s bodily integrity is being infringed upon. If you remove the baby, there is no more infringement and no longer any arguement. There is no reason that abortion must end with a dead baby every time. This has NOTHING to do with “abortion rights” as they have been granted, and everything to do with a fake “right to a dead baby”.
Lauren,
Erin cannot see the truth about Obama just as she cannot see the truth about her own abortion. It makes perfect sense in Erin’s world.
Your son is adorable and a true little fighter at 25 weeks!!! I am so thankful that he had the care he needed.
Holy @#$%. Obama is the lowest, most vile cockroach to ever run on the Democrat party ticket for president, and that’s saying something. All of you people who are defending him, saying that he didn’t attack Gianna Jessen? I hope you enjoy Hell, because you’ll be roasting forever where the worm does not die in a few decades. Some of you even go so far as to say that he did not attack Gianna… and then you personally went on to attack Gianna. It’s unbelievable!
Here’s what Obama did. He called Gianna’s ad a despicable and vile lie. That means he is calling Gianna a despicable and vile liar. It doesn’t matter if he’s going to lie and try to imply that McCain made the ad instead of Gianna. HE IS ATTACKING A SURVIVOR OF ABORTION FOR SUPPORTING THE RIGHT TO LIFE OF ABORTION SURVIVORS. As I said, HOLY @#$%!!! You might as well attack a Jew for opposing the Holocaust!!! Maybe that’ll be next, right, Barry?!?
There are two quotes from Whittaker Chambers which seem appropriate to the current circumstances.
First:
Experience had taught me that innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.
If born-alive was really No Big Deal, then Obama would ignore it. His many responses say a lot. The hysterical tone of his many responses says even more….
Second:
A man is not primarily a witness against something. That is only incidental to the fact that he is a witness for something.
Gianna and Jill are not merely witnesses against Obama’s shameful conduct. They are witnesses for Life. May God bless their faithful witness and use them in His plans!
Namaan, Amen.
…and Obama is a witness for his own shameful conduct. He’ll be witnessing for the rest of his life, I’m afraid.
I think the following can be appreciated by Jill and Gianna:
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
I hope so too, Naaman 2:17, but the words of father Abraham are depressing:
“If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.” Luke 16:31.
Yes, that verse is referring to a warning about hell, but proaborts are trying to turn this earth into hell while denying that they will make it hell.
Carla, thanks.
Honestly it was seeing those babies in the NICU that started to change my mind on abortion. I used to be one of those people who thought “well, I would never have an abortion, but it should be legal…”
Then I saw the NICU babies and I started to really reconsider my views.
Please if you have the funds do an updated video with the sound of Obama’s voice saying it would be an undue burden to call a 2nd doctor. Nail him.
Carla, perhaps the things that you think make perfect sense are only true in “Carla’s world”?
I love watching you all frothing at the mouth over this stuff, all the while Obama’s numbers are climbing again and McCain’s pathetic convention bounce is withering away.
I really, really hope that anyone tricked into thinking that there is any substance at all to this foolishness comes to Jill’s website and reads your nutty comments. Awesome. You guys are your own worst enemies.
So, “Whee”, what you’re saying is that you enjoy living a life in the service of evil.
Whee…
You mean substance like his congressional records that show he voted against the identical bill that passed in the US congress. Or the substance that he lied about his position on the bill, even having the audacity to call us liars, only to have to quietly admit that he was the one who “misstated” the truth.
The evidence is on our side here, whee, regardless of if you are too brainwashed to actually hear it.
Whee! @ 2:37 PM
Leave some of that krazy kool-aid for the rest of the kids Whee.
More on Gianna Jessen and “Born Alive”: http://townhall.com/Columnists/AmandaCarpenter/2008/09/19/obama_keeps_distorting_born_alive_vote
Froth, froth, froth.
Oh, how I wish that someone would put John Lewandowski, Chris Arsenault, and HisMan (those are my three top fave nutters) on a national platform so that you could spew where everyone can hear.
Doug said: “Doyle, Obama never objected on the grounds that born babies would be protected. His objections had to do with abortion, the doctor-patient relationship, etc., as he noted in the IL Senate proceedings.”
Doug, you are not being honest here. The bill had zero, nada, nothing to do with abortion. It was, and is about “born alive” babies ONLY. Now, can you honestly say you don’t know that?
Hey Whee, you do realize that if it wasn’t for the media protecting your damnable cockroach of a candidate, he wouldn’t have a chance in hell of winning this election, don’t you? But, like Obama, the media hates America and wants to see it die.
John: That same MSM that is protecting Obama is the source of, and reporter of, many of the polls that are not trumpeting Obama’s “surge” in the polls.
Change my last comment to “now trumpeting Obama’s “surge” in the polls.
Erin,
“Carla’s World” is a cool place to be! You should join!
Erin, I think you’re forgetting that Carla used to live in “Erin’s World” of anger and denial unitl she finally found the truth.
Erin,
What EXACTLY makes Gianna Jessen IGNORANT on this issue? I’d think she knows A LOT about it considering it HAPPENED.TO.HER. Not the letting her die part, the being born alive as a result of a botched abortion part. She just happened to be one of the lucky ones that was provided medical care after she was born.
Also, what makes Jill ignorant on this issue? Cause she seems pretty informed about it to me. She only testified before Barack Obama, but no, I guess she has no idea what she is talking about.
Obama seems to be the only ignorant one in this situation. Ignorant about when life begins, ignorant on who gets life-saving treatment, etc. I wonder what Obama would do if he were in the room when an aborted baby is born alive. I wonder if he’d actually try to help the baby or just let it die. His voting record says he would do the latter.
I find it very sad that the only way the fact that I don’t regret my abortion can register for you guys, is if I am full of ‘anger and denial’.
I am HAPPY. I have things to work on, like everybody, but I am HAPPY with my life, and confident of my decisions. That just warps your little worlds, don’t it?
I agree Lauren.
I mean, have you ever visited Carla’s world? I just read her blog and its freakin’ hilarious. I love Carla’s world. You should try it sometime Erin.
” love watching you all frothing at the mouth over this stuff- Whee!”
————————————-
Oh My…come to a Pro-life rally and THERE you will not just see frothing at the mouth..you’ll also see gnashing and grinding of teeth while shouting vile curses with fingers towards heaven…
And those are just from passing Pro-aborts like you…
You can see more IF pro-aborts actually care enough to stand by what they believe in and come up with more than 2 people to do a counter-rally…
It doesn’t warp my little world, Erin.
I understand that there are people out there who will stop at nothing for me, me, me. So why would it surprise me that your abortion which was all about you, you, you doesn’t bother you?
Not surprising at all.
I don’t think you’re full of anger and denial. I just think you’re full of yourself. Take what you will from that.
Erin, here’s the thing, You say you’re happy, but your actions tell a whole different story.
You obviously have a mountain of anger surrounding the issue, because it exploads on us all the time. You use sarcasm to distance yourself from reality, and lash out at us anytime we bring the humanity of the preborn into the converstaion.
You go so far as to support Obama’s unsupportable position on BAIPA because even that comes to close to cracking your layer of defense.
Let’s put it like this. I had a c-section a few months ago. I don’t go around posting on c-section debate sites (and they exist) because it did not have a big impact on me. It was unfortunate, and certainly controversial, but no one died so all is well. Ask yourself why you keep coming on here defending the inhumanity of the unborn with such ferver. Of course, you won’t believe anything I’ve said and will just dismiss me as an out of touch looney…but that’s to be expected of someone who can’t yet face the reality of her situation.
Hi Erin,
Maybe I didn’t word that very well. What you have done and what you believe in line up with your support of Obama.
I have done the same thing you have. Had an abortion. Where I am now and what I do lines up with my belief that I made a horrible decision long ago and will now do anything I can to support those that fight the lives of innocent babies.
This is so not about being happy.
Hi Elizabeth, Lauren, becky,
Thanks…….:)
Erin:
You may be happy but you are unaware of the destruction ahead of you in facing a holy God.
Lauren, I use sarcasm ALL THE TIME. You’re right. You know why? Because I am a sarcastic person. I’ve been sarcastic for as long as I can remember. I use sarcasm because that’s what I know how to use. It has nothing to do with my abortion, it has to do with my manner of communication. And I can’t recall a single time when I’ve really ‘lashed out’. I can get a bit snippish, but that’s pretty much it. You want someone with some serious anger problems? Look at John L. Look at Jasper. Look at HisMan. Those are angry people. Me? I’m just passionate.
fight FOR the lives of innocent babies..duh
Yeah, see? I find the whole ‘enjoying telling people they will burn in hell’ to be a lot creepier and more twisted than me saying I don’t regret a personal decision.
I read somewhere, a long, long time ago that when a person commits suicide…one of the first people he sees/meets on the “other side” would be his future children (had they lived)…asking: “Why did you kill us?”
I wonder who would people who are “happy” about their abortion meet first when they pass away and are now on the “other side”?
Erin,
I’m a lot like you in the sense of the sarcasm in everyday communication. I have found that people who are like that (myself included) are that way as a defense mechanism. It makes life easier if everything is a big joke. Then you never have to deal with the reality of it all. It may not be centered around your abortion, but it is centered around you and how you deal with things in life(including your abortion).
I read somewhere, a long, long time ago that when a person commits suicide…one of the first people he sees/meets on the “other side” would be his future children (had they lived)…asking: “Why did you kill us?”
So wait, just not having children counts as killing them?
Erin, I don’t think Hisman “enjoys” telling people that they are going to burn in hell. He really does care about everyone on the other side and DOESN’T want you to burn in hell. I would venture that he would be thrilled to peices for everyone on Earth to be saved. I know I would.
As for you, I don’t think that you are an evil person (and I appologize for calling you dispicable) I think that you are a good person who has bought the bill of goods that was sold to you by our society. I also think that you are a very smart person and one who can see through the talking points. That’s why I think that you are in denial about your abortion.
“So wait, just not having children counts as killing them?
Posted by: Alexandra at September 19, 2008 3:43 PM”
—————————————
What do you think, Alexandra?
Let’s put it like this. I had a c-section a few months ago. I don’t go around posting on c-section debate sites (and they exist) because it did not have a big impact on me. It was unfortunate, and certainly controversial, but no one died so all is well. Ask yourself why you keep coming on here defending the inhumanity of the unborn with such ferver.
Lauren, I hate that logic. I think I once got all snotty with mk over it, actually, back in the day. Except I think her example was knee surgery, not a c-section.
People discuss things that interest them. People’s interest is frequently piqued by real-world experiences, but sometimes people’s experiences come after their interest in a particular subject. I don’t think it’s fair to say that just because a pro-choicer who has had an abortion comes here, they do so out of secret anger and regret. Erin has a snarky and sarcastic, but fairly common to the internet, style of communicating. I don’t consider that indicative of her feelings about abortion — I’d only even think to consider it as such if she were only snarky and sarcastic about abortion.
RSD, no, I don’t think that failing to get pregnant counts as killing a person. Even if it’s your own fault that you’re not getting pregnant.
Alexandra, I think Elizabeth said it well when she said that sarcasm in general is often a defense mechinism and that its use can be applied to any area of life where one feels defensive.
I think people like us who come here day after day do have a personal stake in the matter. Most of the pro-lifers here have been impacted by either abortion or crisis pregnancy and the same could be said by the choicers. I would say we are all more involved in the debate than the average person, and I do think that it is relevent to ask why.
“Erin has a snarky and sarcastic, but fairly common to the internet, style of communicating.”
Posted by: Alexandra at September 19, 2008 3:49 PM
I think that it is safe to say that people who are snarky and sarcastic are not happy people. I’m curious though, why is that style common amongst those who communicate on the internet?
Erin,
In support of my fellow post-abortive sisters Carla et al, I can honestly tell you that I used to BE you. It is the loneliest place to be in the world, and to come through it knowing the truth as Carla and I and others here have is an amazing, painful, and joyous journey.
I have found that the loudest screeching about “choice” comes from post-abortive mothers who will go to ANY lengths to prove that what they did was not wrong, while failing to observe that fact that their screeching is in itself proof of their utter emotional poverty and inability to face the truth.
Come with us, dear. I’m begging you to accept the reality that you succumbed to the culture of death by aborting your child and to move on with your life with a clean heart and a God-forgiven soul.
You are not worthy of it. Neither am I. Neither is any other post-abortive mother. But, nevertheless, it is there, by God’s grace, for the asking. Don’t be afraid to be a human being. Don’t be afraid to admit that you made a terrible mistake.
Please read my blog (sorry the last post hasn’t been for several months as I’ve been a bit distracted). However, I hope that you can read my posts and find even a grain of understanding in them. At the very least, you could at least validate that MY regrets are a real and common experience after abortion.
Thanks for listening. I am praying for you.
Whee! @ 2:51 PM
Actually, Whee!, we’re already on a national platform.
As for frothing at the mouth… John, Hisman and myself – we’re irritated about attacks on Gianna, but frothing at the mouth? – no not quite. Here, let’s do a compare and contrast exercise to show you what real frothing at the mouth looks like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN6TDGOd3Y8
See – Now that’s some prime frothing going on there!
And I would imagine you love that too.
I’d gladly take on anyone out there in a solid debate about abortion, but, for someone like yourself, who doesn’t have the courage to use their own name on a web post, I hardly imagine you’d be rational and sincere in a debate.
One final point – in case you haven’t noticed, this has long ceased being a debate. Debate assumes a level of respectful discourse, but that’s well beyond Obama and his minions.
As Obama’s ad indicates, respectful debate is above his pay grade.
I think that it is safe to say that people who are snarky and sarcastic are not happy people. I’m curious though, why is that style common amongst those who communicate on the internet?
Eileen, I think it’s probably a combination of of internet users tending towards the lower end of the age spectrum, and also the facelessness of it. I disagree in general about sarcastic people being unhappy people, though — I’m pretty sarcastic in real life but it’s just my sense of humor. It’s mostly a self-deprecating sarcasm — I don’t go around making snarky comments about others or the things they care about — but anyway I’m a pretty happy person. :)
ROFL. Chris, reading your posts about your mad debate skillz is like dessert to me. Your sophomoric attempts to trap people with your failed “logic” are awesome examples of how syllogisms in the hands of the inept are just like giving a jet to a monkey and expecting it to fly.
PJMama,
I join you in praying for Erin. Beautifully written post.
”
RSD, no, I don’t think that failing to get pregnant counts as killing a person. Even if it’s your own fault that you’re not getting pregnant.
Posted by: Alexandra at September 19, 2008 ”
—————————-
The context was a suicide…
“Taken out of context” must be contagious nowadays…
PJ Mama @ 4:13,
I watched the Pro-life video on your blog and it brought me to tears. Beautiful! Thank you for speaking out for LIFE!
pjmama,
i agree that is a touching video. i have it as a favorite on my youtube page. i really liked your blog, i just bookmarked it!
Whee! @ 4:23 PM
How charming – my posts are like desserts for you, a hot creme bruleé. Enjoy.
I’ve no more time to amuse you. Go amuse yourself.
maybe what Carla and Lauren have to realize is that Erin may have no conscience or a poorly developed conscience.
Or it may be that she has a constructionist view of life – life is made rather than life develops…
I have found that the loudest screeching about “choice” comes from post-abortive mothers who will go to ANY lengths to prove that what they did was not wrong, while failing to observe that fact that their screeching is in itself proof of their utter emotional poverty and inability to face the truth.
Sounds like Kate Michelman….. Some of the most famous “feminists” are post-abortive women.
“I am HAPPY. I have things to work on, like everybody, but I am HAPPY with my life, and confident of my decisions. That just warps your little worlds, don’t it?”
Fidel Castro also seems very happy. Murderers can be very happy, as long as they don’t have a conscience.
Not all of us are like MacBeth. We don’t all lose our sanity through guilt when we commit unspeakable evil. A lot of us are more like Robespierre. Unfortunately, MacBeth is fiction and Robespierre was very real.
“How charming – my posts are like desserts for you, a hot creme bruleé. Enjoy.”
Hey Chris, are your posts fat-free?
Carla, Janet, Becky,
Thank you for your kind words. Now that hibernation season is arriving up north here, I am going to try to set aside half an hour a day to post to my blog. Hope to hear your thoughts too in the comments section.
Even though I haven’t blogged for months and have just kind of been lurking here on Jill’s blog and commenting sporadically, I still think about my abortion daily. Sometimes, when I buy my two boys a balloon or an ice cream cone, it occurs to me that the two children that I aborted almost two decades ago will never know the childish glee of those wonderful things. I cry inside, but I also rejoice because I am blessed enough to have been touched by the Lord with the truth, in time to realize my error and to make it right before the day that I eventually meet Him, and my babies, in heaven. He is an amazing God to have waited for me all these years. Such patience.
My realization of the gravity of this presidential campaign has been building daily, and I think that I had an epiphany in my sleep last night in the form of a nightmare that Obama won the election. I woke up in tears. I know that if he is elected, the people of this country and of the world will suffer greatly.
PJMama
Nice blog. I enjoyed the video very much.
Maybe in Erin’s case the realization doesn’t hit until she has a live baby. What do you think?
Patricia,
You’re right about the loudest voices being post-abortive. There’s nothing more heart-breaking than seeing a person, a woman, who has NO capacity for self-examination and self-critique living in the world of “it was the only thing that I could have done and it was for the best”. Phooey. Abortion is a cynical rejection of the gift of life; it’s the throwing of a treasure back in the face of the giver through a lack of faith and hope.
It was very hard for me, too. I was about as hard-headed as they come. Still pretty stubborn, too.
Patricia,
I wasn’t sure whether Erin had indicated on this blog that she had or hadn’t given birth yet to a live child.
That’s exactly what did it for me. It wasn’t some protesters shoving graphic photos at me; I never saw even one of those photos until I decided to look online after my abortions began to seriously bother my conscience. If I ever thought I was going to see one, I always just averted my eyes or closed them. A simple enough way to protect my delicate psyche from such a brutal assault; just don’t look! Avoid! Deny! Rationalize!
It wasn’t any person talking negatively about abortion in passing, not knowing that I had had an abortion; no one I knew was ever pro-life or had ever expressed any opinions one way or the other about the subject.
It was purely and simply the newborn faces of my two living sons who are now 6 and 3 that said all that needed to be said to me. THESE little people were what I rejected; they weren’t THINGS, they were real people with futures that I selfishly and faithlessly denied them. And I can’t change it. But I CAN do my small part in warning other women about the realities of abortion by giving my testimony whenever and wherever appropriate.
Admittedly, it wasn’t until the youngest of my two sons turned 1 year old that I dared to do my first Google search about abortion. I remember that it was a quite simple phrase;
“fetal development 12 weeks”
That’s what got the ball rolling on my road to real peace. But it was pure Hell getting here. Not an easy road. Months full of tears, wailing, self-hatred and depression. But God’s grace saved me from making the choice to let those things destroy me. If He could forgive me, who was I not to forgive myself? It took me a long time to love myself again. I really hated looking in the mirror, but His unwavering love saved my life.
Obama running his ad is an excellent sign that he is running scared of his own record. He hopes to shout down Gianna, but her story speaks volumes.
Making him address his support of abortion and infanticide is very important. I should hope that another ad, perhaps on the website will lay out why some infants survive abortion and what they look like — just like the infants in the NICU. We need to show the public what happens.
The public will be appalled by Obama’s real actions against saving infant’s lives. Perhaps while showing the infants, his sound bites about ‘what we do to the least of these’ or ‘above my pay-grade’ could play, would be powerful.
Bring his total support of abortion and infanticide on demand to the fore — it’s so important.
Chris, you underestimate your yumminess. I was thinking more of a lovely fruit and nut tart.
The context was a suicide…
“Taken out of context” must be contagious nowadays…
I’m sorry if you think I’m taking it out of context. I just honestly don’t really get the reasoning. If someone murders me, do they also murder the children who have never been conceived that I would otherwise have had?
John Lewandowski @ 5:25 PM
Fellow Nutter John – of course! 100% Fat Free posts – filled with crunchy Positive, Negative and Exclusively Or’d logic. Inferential and quantification results served up with a smile. ;-)
As an aside – Whee! is reminding me of an old software project – an expert system that determines the validity of semantic arguments using the rules of logic. Of course the system relies upon realistic, common and relatively stable definitions. There-in lies the problem – people play games with their definitions.
I’ve learned that no matter how logical one is, no matter the evidence, unless people are intellectually honest with themselves, no external proof will suffice. Call it a corrupt heart – aka – life without Christ.
PJMama: it must have taken alot and I mean ALOT of courage to go and search on Google.
I wonder though how someone like Kate Michelman becomes soo hard-hearted. She’s Catholic and she knows this is wrong, with all her very being. I wonder how she would deal with someone like you or Carla, if you had the chance to confront her? I wonder if she’s ever been confronted in a loving way by a woman who’s had an abortion?
I am sure God loves you very much PJMama!
I do hope that Erin never thinks I do not care about her. I do. Which is why I want her here. She may never come to terms with what she has done, but I do want her to remember that if her life somehow seems to be spinning out of control someday that there is help available. There is healing and hope and forgiveness after abortion. PJMama and I and many others know a little bit about that. :)
PJ,
Thank you again for sharing your story. We are sisters in every sense of the word. Love you!
Carla, since a similar topic has been broached, perhaps now is the time I post this here. I already sent it to Bobby, and I e-mailed it to Jill for kicks earlier this week, but eh.
ugh, my link didnt work.
here
Dan,
I appreciate your honesty as you wrestle with some very big things. I am grateful that not all things seem to be settled with you….they aren’t with me either. I continue to learn and pray and change.
I am glad you are here. Thanks for the link.
Dan, HORRAY!
Ok, here’s the thing. We all understand that the outlaw of abortion is going to be a MAJOR paradigm shift for our country and that in order to make our world a more pro-life place in general we need to make the choice of life the obviously better choice.
You may not agree that abortion should be totally outlawed right now, but that doesn’t mean you can’t help to further the pro-life cause. You can help by volunteering for services that help women/ children. You can try to make your school more pregnancy/parenting friendly. Heck, you can just talk to people to help them understand the gravity and reality of abortion.
We’re glad to hear of your conversion!
lauren-
My school is already as child friendly as can be. We aren’t a generic college in any sense. The average age of our student body is over 20, and we’re a commuter school which partly explains that. We have a day care center for students located literally minutes walk from campus, in fact its a part of the apartment complex I’m moving into.
Dan, that sounds great.
HI Dan,
What services are available at your school for young college women who find themselves pregnant but want to keep the baby?
Dan,
I knew you were amazing, but this realllllly makes me feel bad for lighting into you the other day. I posted this recently, and am posting it again here for you. Maybe it will help you see more clearly, some of the issues that are still troubling you.
1. Isn’t conscience the same as my own opinions and feelings? And doesn’t everyone have the right to his or her own conscience?
*
Conscience is NOT the same as your opinions or feelings. Conscience cannot be identical with your feelings because conscience is the activity of your intellect in judging the rightness or wrongness of your actions or omissions, past, present, or future, while your feelings come from another part of your soul and should be governed by your intellect and will. Conscience is not identical with your opinions because your intellect bases its judgment upon the natural moral law, which is inherent in your human nature and is identical with the Ten Commandments. Unlike the civil laws made by legislators, or the opinions that you hold, the natural moral law is not anything that you invent, but rather discover within yourself and is the governing norm of your conscience. In short, Conscience is the voice of truth within you, and your opinions need to be in harmony with that truth. As a Catholic, you have the benefit of the Church’s teaching authority or Magisterium endowed upon her by Christ. The Magisterium assists you and all people of good will in understanding the natural moral law as it relates to specific issues. As a Catholic, you have the obligation to be correctly informed and normed by the teaching of the Church’s Magisterium. As for your feelings, they need to be educated by virtue so as to be in harmony with conscience’s voice of truth. In this way, you will have a sound conscience, according to which we you will feel guilty when you are guilty, and feel morally upright when you are morally upright. We should strive to avoid the two opposite extremes of a lax conscience and a scrupulous conscience. Meeting the obligation of continually attending to this formation of conscience will increase the likelihood that, in the actual operation or activity of conscience, you will act with a certain conscience, which clearly perceives that a given concrete action is a good action that was rightly done or should be done. Being correctly informed and certain in the actual operation of conscience is the goal of the continuing formation of conscience. Otherwise put, you should strive to avoid being incorrectly informed and doubtful in the actual judgment of conscience about a particular action or omission. You should never act on a doubtful conscience.
3. If I think that a pro-abortion candidate will, on balance, do much more for the culture of life than a pro-life candidate, why may I not vote for the pro-abortion candidate?
*
If a political candidate supported abortion, or any other moral evil, such as assisted suicide and euthanasia, for that matter, it would not be morally permissible for you to vote for that person. This is because, in voting for such a person, you would become an accomplice in the moral evil at issue. For this reason, moral evils such as abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide are examples of a “disqualifying issue.” A disqualifying issue is one which is of such gravity and importance that it allows for no political maneuvering. It is an issue that strikes at the heart of the human person and is non-negotiable. A disqualifying issue is one of such enormity that by itself renders a candidate for office unacceptable regardless of his position on other matters. You must sacrifice your feelings on other issues because you know that you cannot participate in any way in an approval of a violent and evil violation of basic human rights. A candidate for office who supports abortion rights or any other moral evil has disqualified himself as a person that you can vote for. You do not have to vote for a person because he is pro-life. But you may not vote for any candidate who supports abortion rights. Key to understanding the point above about “disqualifying issues” is the distinction between policy and moral principle. On the one hand, there can be a legitimate variety of approaches to accomplishing a morally acceptable goal. For example, in a society’s effort to distribute the goods of health care to its citizens, there can be legitimate disagreement among citizens and political candidates alike as to whether this or that health care plan would most effectively accomplish society’s goal. In the pursuit of the best possible policy or strategy, technical as distinct (although not separate) from moral reason is operative. Technical reason is the kind of reasoning involved in arriving at the most efficient or effective result. On the other hand, no policy or strategy that is opposed to the moral principles of the natural law is morally acceptable. Thus, technical reason should always be subordinate to and normed by moral reason, the kind of reasoning that is the activity of conscience and that is based on the natural moral law.
http://tinyurl.com/4l97qe
Lauren: Ok look here’s the thing, saving the life of a baby born alive after an abortion does nothing to hurt the abortion rights of the woman. The argument for abortion is that the woman’s bodily integrity is being infringed upon. If you remove the baby, there is no more infringement and no longer any arguement. There is no reason that abortion must end with a dead baby every time. This has NOTHING to do with “abortion rights” as they have been granted, and everything to do with a fake “right to a dead baby”.
Lauren, on the last vote in the IL Senate, I agree that the Democrats apparently had what they wanted as far as not infringing upon women’s rights. Yet it’s silly to act like they voted as they did because “they want babies to die.” The vote split right along party lines and often it’s a case of “well, you guys didn’t vote for our bill, so we’re not going to support yours.”
Dan,
I am so glad to see your progress in the direction of life, as I’m sure God is, too. Stay here with us and continue the debates. I have much to glean from your experience because I, as a baptized and born again Christian since the age of 10, have been considering a conversion to Catholicism. This has been a direct result of my research these last two years and a discovery and admiration of the unwavering profession of the value of human life by the Catholic Church. As a life-long Protestant, I had always had my pre-conceived negative notions about the Catholic faith, but I have grown to admire it.
Dan and PJMama,
I’m sooo happy to hear your stories! God bless you both.
;o)
Thanks Janet. Although I know that many of you who frequent Jill’s blog have heard my story before, it is obvious to me that she is getting more and more exposure and new visitors, so I know there are some lurking here who have never heard a remorseful post-abortive mother’s point of view.
If you are out there after having had an abortion, whether last week or decades ago, and are feeling confused or depressed, please visit your nearest Crisis Pregnancy Center or any of the other links below for supportive and loving counseling to help you find forgiveness through the love of Christ.
http://www.pregnancycenters.org/
http://www.cpclink.com/
http://www.abortionfacts.com/help/cpc_links.asp
http://www.rachelsvineyard.org
Thanks PJMama!!
I would like to add in addition to those lovely links if you had an abortion and regret it and would like to help further prolife legislation please go to http://www.operationoutcry.org
You can fill out a declaration online and even sign it with your mouse. Join your voice with the thousands of other women and men that KNOW that abortion hurts.
These declarations are used in court to show the effects that abortion has on women and men.
Thank you, Carla, for that link. I feel like I’ve done enough self-analysis now to be able to tell my story in a comprehensive and helpful way to an entity like the Supreme Court. I will be working hard on completing my Declaration to submit before the year is out. I can only hope that it will add in a meaningful way to the testimonies of thousands of other damaged mothers and fathers and further the cause of doing away with abortion forever.
PJMama,
I am so grateful for you, you have no idea!! I am glad your story will be added to the quickly growing stack!! If you know anyone else who would like to sign a declaration, please let them know as well.
I am praying for you!
Carla,
I’m also going to place a link on my blog as soon as possible.
Thanks for your prayers. You’ve staked out a place in my prayers, as well!
MK-
in that theory i think itd be impossible to vote for ANY current political candidate.
PJMama-
I appreciate the comment you left on my blog as well as here. I don’t know how much you can glean from me, I mean my Catholic knowledge has been shaky given its been 4 years since I last attended mass on my own volition (though that may change tomorrow. Apparently the thought process is still though, MK has commended me a few times on it but disagrees with my ultimate conclusion, partly I’m sure because the Church often takes it in a different direction :).
I’m certainly willing to help anyway I can, but there are those here with far more knowledge than I. I can debate/go back and forth and I often can use scripture if needed, but I’m by no means an expert.
Midnite ,
RSD
I never said I wanted an outright liar for President. For the record, I dont like Obama at all. I dont really like McCain either. So I might not vote at all this year or write in Mickey Mouse on the ballot.
Please, please don’t toss away your right to vote in this election. You know there are people in countries around the world, including our own, who are literally dying to gain/maintain the freedoms we have in the U.S. Each of us has an important voice and we need to let ourselves be heard.
Dan and PJmama,
You can email ANYTIME, with questions. Or Bobby. We would be delighted to help you on your journey.
We don’t know everything, but we know where to go to find the answers.
I don’t know if you remember the 4000 comment thread that was up here awhile ago, but a whole lot of debate when on, and a whole lot of Catholic thought got put forth. You might want to peruse it. There are also TONS of websites.
My advice, not that you asked, is to make sure that you only get your information from strong, conservative, orthodox, traditional Catholic sources. It will do you know good to be catechized by a Joe Biden or Nancy Pelosi. You’ll just have to unlearn everything that you learn.
God Bless you both…wow. Just wow!
https://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/03/weekend_questio_33.html#comments
Let’s see now…who was it here who kept claiming that Obama’s vote had nothing to do with supporting infanticide? Hmmm…
Here’s the Youtube link for this, on its own:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypDwNpgIUQc
PJMama, I am so thankful for women like you and Carla! God Bless!