Egan vs. Giuliani
Robert Novak wrote in his syndicated column April 28:
Did pro-choice politicians receiving Communion at the papal Masses indicate the pope had softened on the abortion question? The answer is no. On the contrary, it reflected disobedience to Benedict by the archbishops of New York and Washington.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Sens. John Kerry, Christopher Dodd and Edward M. Kennedy received Communion at Nationals Park in DC, as did former mayor Rudolph Giuliani at Yankee Stadium in NY. Archbishop Donald Wuerl of Washington and Cardinal Edward Egan, archbishop of NY, invited them. Given choice seats, they took Communion as a matter of course….
In NY, Giuliani receiving Communion was even more remarkable. Unlike Pelosi and Kennedy, who attend Mass regularly, the former mayor says he goes to church only “occasionally,” usually for holidays or funerals. Abortion aside, Giuliani’s third marriage would make him ineligible for Communion because his second marriage was not annulled by the church. But Cardinal Egan is no more apt than Cardinal McCarrick was to offend the powerful, and Giuliani was invited to the Mass.
Not so fast. First, I certainly would not consider it “disobedient” to invite a wayward Christian to church. On the contrary, it is what we all should do. The church is a healing place for sick people. Novak sent a disturbing message: Don’t come to church unless you’re all cleaned up. This is exactly the wrong message to send. I’m sure Cardinal Egan prayed GIuliani would experience an epiphany during the service, or at least leave convicted.
That said, according to this Associated Press video report, Egan thought he and Giuliani had an understanding that Giuliani was welcome to attend Mass but not receive Communion. And now Egan wants to discuss Giuliani’s religious breach with him personally:
In fact, Egan issued a press release on the Archdiocese of NY website Monday. Good for him.
The church is indeed a place for sick people, but it must maintain certain rules for its practices. So explained the Archdiocese’s office, according to this Newsday story today:
Joseph Zwilling, a spokesman for the Archdiocese of NY… said the issue with Giuliani had become so public that the cardinal felt obligated to respond. He added that “Catholics have an obligation to understand church teaching and to understand that Holy Communion should only be received when a person is in a state of grace.”
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Gee, Bob Novak compromised the identity of a covert CIA agent during wartime. Haven’t they hanged him yet?
NOVAK is torqued out of shape because someone ate a CRACKER?
No need to offend… I am no less outraged about the yellow cake thing as you are, but that doesn’t mean you have to mock someone else’s religious tradition and beliefs…
Laura,
For Catholics, the Eucharist is NOT a cracker! It is the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
Please stop your insults, especially when you don’t understand the religious beliefs of Catholics or of Christianity in general.
No need to offend… I am no less outraged about the yellow cake thing as you are, but that doesn’t mean you have to mock someone else’s religious tradition and beliefs…
Posted by: StudentFL at April 30, 2008 10:37 AM
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Communion is a spiritual matter, not a phyisical one.
Catholics in Nazi concentration camps received communion, and trust me, it wasn’t all about a wafer.
What Novak is ranting about was the physical act of Giulianni receiving that wafer, and never addressed what was in Rudi’s heart.
It’s not a wafer.
If someone professes to be Catholic, but then goes out and kills babies in the womb, and then expects to receive the Eucharist on Sundays, they are kidding themselves. They’ve already excommunicated themselves by killing innocent children in the womb.
The same goes for a politician that has never obviously read his Catechism.
He’s obviously a cafeteria Catholic who thinks he can pick and choose what to believe in.
The pope didnt seem to have any problem with it
1 Corinthians 11:
“26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.
27Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
28But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.
30For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.
31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.
32But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with (AJ)the world.”
Rudy Guiliani should be quaking in his boots right now.
TR:
Again your post demonstrates ignorance.
As indiviudals we are accountable to God for our own actions.
If someone comes to recieve communion it is assumed that they are following the teachings of Christ and are recieving communion in a worthy manner. It is not the Pope’s or anyone else’s job to check our consciences.
Wow HisMan, very impressive with the 1 Cor 11 quote! I’m impressed!
Hey Laura,
Why don’t you join the Catholic Church to fully understand what REAL Communion is all about?
Instead of dissing something you really have no idea what’s it all about.
I can even volunteer to be your sponsor…I promise, it won’t hurt.
Where’s Jess? Are you ok, sweets?
That the Catholic Church fails to PUBLICLY CONDEMN vile public figures like Giuliani demonstrates their lack of a spine and willingness to placate those who are in (or were in in Giuliani’s case) positions of political power.
We need to see a statement like Burke made a while back put out by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.
TR:
Again your post demonstrates ignorance.
As indiviudals we are accountable to God for our own actions.
If someone comes to recieve communion it is assumed that they are following the teachings of Christ and are recieving communion in a worthy manner. It is not the Pope’s or anyone else’s job to check our consciences.
Posted by: HisMan at April 30, 2008 11:14 AM
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As I pointed out, the Pope didnt seem to have any problem with it. And by your own admission its not YOUR job to check out anyone elses conscience either so why dont you mind your own business?
“We need to see a statement like Burke made a while back put out by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.”
Amen, Zeke!
HisMan claimed without any evidence on another blog post:
“Zeke
Plainly you are a racist.
Being one is dumb.”
Give me ANY evidence that the NAACP cares about any group other than blacks. I mean actual evidence that they have done anything for colored people OTHER THAN blacks.
They haven’t! The NAACP is a black racist group that promotes the VICTIMHOOD MENTALITY that has been so destructive to blacks.
And they even give a platform for racist bigots like Jeremiah Wright to speak at their big events!
You must have NO IDEA of what the NAACP is like or who runs it to claim that I am somehow racist by stating the fact that they are all about black power and not at all concerned about colored people from other areas like India or the Middle East.
Jill — Novak isn’t saying “Don’t come to church unless you’re all cleaned up.” He’s saying, “Don’t honor those we all know aren’t ‘cleaned up’ as if they were.”
To do that is wrong not only for these politicians who support abortion, but for the church and the public as a whole. The message to all is that the church isn’t really serious about the sin of politically supporting abortion.
Laura:10:50: Communion is a spiritual matter, not a phyisical one.
You are right to a degree that there is a “spiritual communion we can make with Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, but the in the Catholic Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist we unite with Jesus in a physical union as well.
Catholics in Nazi concentration camps received communion, and trust me, it wasn’t all about a wafer.
Yes, you are right.
What Novak is ranting about was the physical act of Giulianni receiving that wafer, and never addressed what was in Rudi’s heart.
The Cardinal and Giulianni will be meeting to hopefully come to a meeting of the minds on this issue.
Is it possible that these politicians have altered their positions on abortion and the press is not aware of it? Are democrats in general banned from participating in Communion at a Catholic church?
“Are democrats in general banned from participating in Communion at a Catholic church?”
No, certainly not, Samantha. In general, any Catholic in what is called “mortal sin” can not and should not receive communion until they go to confession. Now there are very good reasons for this which I don’t think I need to get into here, but if nothing else, think of it as ‘the rules.’ You wanna be part of a group, ya gotta obey the rules. Right?
Now in particular, anyone who publically manifests in mortal sin (actually grave matter, but that’s a technicality) should also not receive communion. By doing so, it causes what Catholics call ‘scandal’ which means that they may influence another person to sin via their actions. Someone who is confused on church teaching and thinks that abortion is OK based on the actions of a Catholic politician has been scandalized and puts his soul in jeopardy. Hence, this is a very, very serious matter involving people’s immortal souls. Hope that makes sense. God love you.
Samantha T: 12:45: Is it possible that these politicians have altered their positions on abortion and the press is not aware of it? Are democrats in general banned from participating in Communion at a Catholic church?
Good question. Yes, it is possible that these politicians have altered their positions, but they would need to confess to their priest before being able to receive Communion (the Eucharist). No, receiving communion is not affected by political party affiliation. All Catholics in good standing, who are free from mortal sin are allowed to receive the Holy Eucharist.
Bobby, Very nice answer, you should think about blogging, you’d be good at it. :)
“Bobby, Very nice answer, you should think about blogging, you’d be good at it. :)”
Thanks… maybe someday…
TR:
Ha, ha, ha, ha. You are excruciatingly, inextricably inconsistent.
Hey, how’s the counseling business? Seems to me a counselor is driven by the desire to be involved in everyone’s business.
ZEKE:
My comment to your original post was directed at your obvious racism towards Black American, not on the efficacy, purpose or mission of the NAACP. I mean just go reread what you wrote. The tone and inferrence was racist. Again, if my black friends were to read your racist post they would want to squeenze your head not because they want to defend the NAACP but becasue your tone was racist. And I guarantee that none of them are members of the NAACP. So, stop trying to be a John Kerry liberal type and twist the words. Admit it, you hate blacks and are a racist and it is expressed by your attitude towards the NAACP. Now if you want to refute that, put your words in a different contect and maybe I’ll change my opininon towards you.
If you want to tell me that the NAACP is a liberal arm of the Democratic Party that partners with them in theri deception of Black Amecians for teh sake of power, well, I would agree with you. However, your tone should not be one as that of being against black people.
Yes, it is possible that these politicians have altered their positions, but they would need to confess to their priest before being able to receive Communion (the Eucharist).
Posted by: Janet at April 30, 2008 12:54 PM
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If Rudy confessed to a priest in California and then flew to NYC for mass, how would the presiding Cardinal know? Do priests confer to keep up with publicly confessed mortal sin (or grave matter?)? And if not, should Giuliani have changed his mind about abortion and confessed, is the priest to whom he did so obligated (or even allowed) to step out and rectify all this bad press? Or is part of his penance that he has to publicly recant?
That’s a good question, Samantha. I’m not positive about this, but my guess is the following; the confessional is SACRED in the sense that a priest will be automatically excommunicated for telling anything he heard in the confessional (if he mentions specifically the person. sometimes you hear priests tell stories about things they’ve heard to make a point, but there is no way to tell who that is) The church takes the privacy of confession very, very seriously and hence, there is no way that a priest could tell another priest that it’s OK to give someone communion. Just like public scandal demands public discipline, it most likely demands public apology or public recantion (if that’s a word). Now, if he wanted to, he could lie and say he recants, never go to confession and receive communion as well. Or he could go to confession, never publically mention anything, try and receive communion, and run the risk of being denied communion even though he has gone to confession. If the last situation is the case I mentioned, though, I think that would still be a sin because as far as the public knows, he supports abortion and has received communion. Like I mentioned above, when you are a public figure, if you cause public scandal, you must make a public apology or do something to let people know your position has changed. That’s part of being in the public eye.
Hey, how’s the counseling business? Seems to me a counselor is driven by the desire to be involved in everyone’s business.
Posted by: HisMan at April 30, 2008 1:16 PM
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6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his
shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful **Counselor,** Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
~Isaiah 9:6
If Guiliani did in fact go to confession prior to receiving Holy Communion (and it’s not a wafer, Laura – we believe that God is present in the form of HC) then this would suggest a change of heart and the bringing of his conscience into line with Catholic Church teaching. If so, then one would think that he would have informed Cardinal Egan about this, since it has already been a matter of private discussion between the two of them. I would also think that he would be required to recant his position on abortion publicly since he has caused so much scandal and may very well have led other souls into error.
The issue I have with the Guiliani spokesperson who likely is spouting Guiliani’s position on his faith. Guiliani’s faith is NOT a private matter since he is a public figure and has acted in a manner to bring publicity to his faith.If he feels so strongly about abortion and is acting to support these beliefs, then he should not be presenting himself to receive the sacraments.
However, for some strange reason, apostate Catholics seem to think it their job to CHANGE the church’s position on moral teachings they do not agree with. Strangely, we do not see this happening in the polygamist Church of Latter Day Saints for example. Instead, the dissenters just leave. Maybe Guilani should consider this just leaving. I think the good Cardinal should deny Guilani HOly Communion next time.
SamT: a priest may not, under ANY circumstances reveal what was confessed to him.
” I think the good Cardinal should deny Guilani HOly Communion next time.”
Patricia,
As Zeke alluded to in some post, Archbishop Burke wrote an excellent article on Holy Communion and canon 915 and came to the conclusion that Catholic politicians who support abortion should, indeed, be denied communion.
Samantha, now you got Handel’s Messiah stuck in my head… although there are much, much worse things to have stuck in one’s head…
Someone who is confused on church teaching and thinks that abortion is OK based on the actions of a Catholic politician has been scandalized and puts his soul in jeopardy.
Posted by: Bobby Bambino at April 30, 2008 12:53 PM
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I understand, but isn’t it also the fault of other Catholics for not making sure that the person knows that abortion is NOT ok? And about the Eucharist — this is one of my biggest hangups with Catholicism. I know y’all believe that you are actually partaking of the flesh of Jesus, who is the culmination of perfection as well as the Savior of the world, so how is it that a human must confess his sins to another human before he can take Communion? It seems that intaking the essence of perfection would absolve the sins in a penitent heart. And also, why is it that a person can go directly to Jesus with the little things (venial sins) and the big thing (salvation) but has to go to a priest for everything in between? I don’t understand how God can take care of both ends of the spectrum Himself but needs help with the in-the-middles.
“but isn’t it also the fault of other Catholics for not making sure that the person knows that abortion is NOT ok?”
Possibly, especially with all the poor catechesis going on these days. So I have no idea the level of culpability that anyone has as far as causing scandal goes. Only God knows that. The fact of the matter is that there is the major POSSIBILITY of causing scandal, and that is what is really being worried about. No one can say how much or which people are causing scandal to whom. Only God can, but we should do everything we can to prevent it.
Also, Samantha, I would love to discuss your other questions with you. I just don’t want to necessarily get into Catholic theology (which is where this is headed) on this forum. I would be extremely happy to email you if you want to discuss these questions further. If you wish, you can ask MK for my email… come to think of it, MK could answer these much better than I can. But if you want mediocre answers, ask MK for my email and I will discuss this in as much detail with you as you wish. God love you.
Samantha,
Have you, by any chance, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
If not, pls do…even the compendium is a nice read. This will answer most of your questions about the Sacraments.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm
Eric, 12:41p: Reading Novak’s first lines as you interpreted them, I see your point.
Catholics believe that we must confess our serious sins, both in type and number, to the best of our human ability before a priest prior to receiving Communion because nothing pure (the consecrated Host) can enter into an impure vessel such as our bodies. The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is why Catholics believe that a person cannot just do whatever he/she wants with their body. While some might balk at giving a litany of transgressions, the fact is that God will ask for an exact account on the judgement day of all our actions and those we omitted as well.
Serious sins are those that break our relationship with God completely. Therefore, we need to go to a priest for these sins.
And SamT you are quite right that Guiliani’s position today is to some degree the fault of many people besides Guiliani himself. His pastors have been remiss in instructing him and even in confronting him when his views became known, likely years ago. They will be answerable for this omission on their soul’s judgement day. However, really Guiliani’s beliefs are the result of rebellion against God – and the choice to put his desire for power first rather than God.
Samantha T:
Yes and even He knows the number of hairs on our head. (Which by the way varies pretty much hourly).
And I welcome Him minding all of my business ’cause I’d screw it up.
I’m glad that you are now learning how to wield the Sword. Careful, it’s a two-edged Sword, it cuts both ways.
TR:
Ha, ha, ha, ha. You are excruciatingly, inextricably inconsistent.
Hey, how’s the counseling business? Seems to me a counselor is driven by the desire to be involved in everyone’s business.
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Stupid people make all sorts of stupid assumptions HisMan – you prove that to me every time you post.
Guillianis stance on abortion notwithstanding, he has also been divorced and remarried. I have never heard that he had these marriages annulled but that would be just as good a reason to refrains from receiving communion…
There’s nothing wrong with pro-choice politicians taking communion. They’re elected to represent their constituents, not the pope. There’s nothing in the Bible that says “thou shalt not represent the people who voted for you.”
Reality: once you cross the doorstep into Church, you do not leave the rest of your life behind. You cannot act one way and believe another – this is a very disintegrated way of living and not very healthy either.
You may receive Communion when you are in a “state of grace” as Catholics term it and Guiliani KNOWS he is not in the state of grace because he has acted contrary to Catholic teachings to uphold and support abortion laws. When making the decision to receive Communion a Catholic does an examination of his/her conscience (or should at any rate). Guiliani’s conscience is not in conformity with the teachings of the Catholic Church. This is fine, if this is how he wants to live his life. But, he has to realize that he cannot receive Communion. If he cannot live by the tenets of his faith, he should quietly attend Mass but not receive or he should leave the Church and attend another that is more in line with his personal beliefs.
He is responsible to God first, then to the people and he is third.It is precisely because this sequence of duties in his life is disordered that he is in the difficulty he now finds himself.
sorry the anon post at 4:42pm was moi.
my browsers acting out again!!
And so the typical Texasredneck can’t resist giving another lesson of her/his KKK/Know Nothing history of Catholics.
So embittered, and clinging to the past glories of her Texasredneck history, which always made Catholic’s evil brown people, and “eating Jesus every Domingo” , in the friendly state, your personal Texasredneck will now define Catholic doctrine and transubstantiation according to Texasredneck theology.
BTW, Texasredneck, Amanda Marcotte is getting her lesson in being a racist Texasredneck feminist, by a brown person, or WOC, and your just another sister-in-Texasredneckism posting exactly the same thoughts, ideas, and anti-Catholicism that Marcotte exhibits.
Outside of being a typical Texasredneck, how do you chew carne seca with one tooth and drink that Chimay, while flooding the septic tanks of Buda, Tx. on weekends?
Ah, the modern Texasredneck, sporting a Sportster, with more leather on it then a imported Italian couch, and wearing official Harley clothes with a Texas motiff headband to assure the Texasredneck is really a modern Texasredneck.
But, please, please, could you not have a rabbit foot keychain as part of your official Texasredneck clothing accessories? It’s sooo, sooo, pendejo.
Samantha, Rudy Giuliani is not a Democrat. Pro-abortion politicians should not present themselves for Communion, regardless of what political party they belong to.
Reality, “pro-choice” politicians have a “choice” to make – either accept that they are publicly participating in mortal sin and stop presenting themselves for Communion until they repent and go to Confession, or leave the Catholic Church.
They just have to decide – what’s more important, their religion or their politics?
who is moderating tonight?
Patricia,
What’s up? I’m just checkin’ in. What should I know about?
mk:
yllas post @ 5:12pm is really trashy and just plain awful.
I’m not a TR fan but this is really nasty.
Patricia,
Which part exactly is offending you? I can delete a line or two, but honestly, to me it’s just a typical yllas post, defending Catholicism and ripping into TR. Are there any lines in particular that are really bad?
never mind mk
to me this post was simply ridiculous, crass and vulgar.
I’m curious mk:
Can you actually UNDERSTAND yllas post? Just wondering…
@Patricia,
I for one, love yallas’ posts even this one. She is one of the most widely read persons I’ve ever ran across. And her very colorful allusions can easily get you lost but they all do relate to what she feels are her targets main ineptitudes. Her memory for small detail is phenomenal … absolutely astounding!
I guess I don’t get it because many of the references are American/Texan and I’m Canadian.
I think a person ought to be able to express themselves so people can understand what it is they are trying to state even if they are from another country. I saw a post from yllas the other night that made absolutely no sense to me either.
Patricia,
I don’t always catch all of what Yllas is saying, but she is quite “colorful” (as John said) in small doses. Do you know any Spanish? It helps.
Patricia,
“I saw a post from yllas the other night that made absolutely no sense to me either.”
Hence, the name “yllas”.
Carder,
He chose the name yllas in response to Sally when she first came on. It’s a way of saying he is Sally’s opposite, nemesis.
Patricia,
I can understand 90% of his posts. They are cryptic, but knowing that he is Catholic and pro life helps. As John said, he doesn’t forget anything and calls ’em like he sees ’em. They do tend to appear schizophrenic…so I could see how they are hard to follow. But if you read closely, they do make sense.
John,
I got your email. Fix whatever’s broke, will ya? I miss you!
Janet,
Small doses does help. A lot of stuff he says is “inside” jokes that only a Catholic, a pro lifer or the person they are directed at would get…I look at them as puzzles, and have fun with them.
From what I’ve seen on this website, yllas is just an idiot, even if a bit of a savant with obsessions.
Zeke and HisMan, the Pro-Choice arguments are carrying the day, and your tone and content just drive it home. “Those two are on which side? The Pro-Life side? Then the other side must be right.”
Pendejo Watch
Break out your translation dictionaries. Yesterday we reported that the Associated Press finally put an end to an 18-month controversy over the correct translation of the Spanish word
Terry G,
Are you actually telling us that you base your morals on other peoples arguments…if you like the person you swing this way, if you don’t you swing that way?
If that’s true, then maybe you should stay on the pro choice side?
Your side has Sally and TR. Paragons of diplomacy and tact! lol
mk:
I thought yllas was female! I always learn a little tidbit of interesting information from him. Was very surprised to look up Chimay and find out it is a Belgian beer made in a Trappist monastery. Belgian beer all the way down in Texas! Who would have thought? Ha!
First you get down on your knees
Fiddle with your rosaries
Bow your head with great respect,
And… genuflect, genuflect, genuflect
Do whatever steps you want if
They have cleared it with the Pontiff
Everybody say his own kyrie eleison
Doin’ the Vatican Rag!
Get in line in that processional
Step into that small confessional
There the guy that’s got religion’ll
Tell you if your sin’s original
If it is, try playin’ it safer
Drink the wine and chew the wafer
Two- four- six- eight
Time to transubstantiate!
Make a cross on your abodomen
When in Rome, do like the Roman
Ave Maria, Gee it’s good to see ya
Gettin’ ecstatic, an’ sorta dramatic an’
Doin’ the Vatican Rag! –Tom Lehrer.
Why not just excommunicate all American pro-choice Catholics and be done with it?
MK, you wrote: “Guillianis stance on abortion notwithstanding, he has also been divorced and remarried. I have never heard that he had these marriages annulled but that would be just as good a reason to refrains from receiving communion…”
I read that his first marriage was annulled by the Church, but not his second.
Neither was Ronald Reagan’s marriage to Jane Wyman annulled. Reagan was therefore an excommunicated Catholic.
Doin’ the Vatican Rag! –Tom Lehrer.
Posted by: SoMG at April 30, 2008 10:04 PM
Ha ha! hilarious.
Well,
Thank you John. As your brothers keeper, and fellow poster, one must have followed my post to get their full meaning.
As for Patricia.
Now, Patricia, being a multi generation Texan, I find the bigoted, anti Catholic Texasredneck, needs a reminder of where, and whence they have bloomed from.
The state of Texas has a long, proud history of anti-Catholic history. It goes with the founding of the nation of Texas. Today’s Texasredneck is revealed by such pro abortion Texasrednecks, such as Amanda Marcotte. Or, our personal version of Amanda Marcotte, known as Texasred.
Why, Patricia, if memory serves me right, Canada has seen its share of anti-Catholic bigotry shown towards those French speaking Catholics in Quebec?
Or is it just the “language problem” that makes one want to leave the union of Canada and become a independent nation, as those French Canadians were debating some time ago(1980’s?)?
In Texas, amongst the friendly citizens, we refer to anti Catholic bigots, as Texasrednecks,
or more intimately as a pendejo.
But, Patricia,
Since my post make no sense to you, from being too personal in nature for you to understand, let me play a simple game with you, which is used to teach logic and reasoning in children.
The game is known as Twenty Questions, or person,place or thing. Ever play it Patricia?
You know, I think of a person,place or thing and you have twenty questions to guess what I have decided upon amongst those options.
It is used to instruct a child about the meaning/definition of the word, “noun”.
In fact Patricia, you might be smart enough to know where I’m going with the game of person,place or thing, concerning personhood arguments, and making your child, or children see humans as things from early definitions of words.
Take the word, fetus. Person,place or thing Patricia? Take the word zygote, Patricia. Person,place or thing, Patricia?
Now, Patricia, I have reduced the whole argument about personhood, to nothing more then a child’s game, played to define objects with precision and accuracy, soo one may not become a Texasredneck, who thinks people are things, as Texasrednecks do at this site.
Or, another post that Patricia does not get from not understanding the mass induced education of humans to place/define humans as things in their mother, and not a person or people.
Janet,
And now you know the education level of Texasredneck. Being a typical anti-catholic Texasredneck, drinking a Catholic made beer, while posting typical, Texasredneck theology post, , is well, what Texasrednecks do.
“Big Bubba, what does trappist mean?”
Well, my little tatooed Indian paintbrush, I think it is when you trap a beer between your tooth and open it”.
“Take the word, fetus. Person,place or thing Patricia? Take the word zygote, Patricia. Person,place or thing, Patricia? ”
Not going to lie, but that’s very clever. I hate to do it, but i give you props on that one yllas.
yllas, are you autistic?
Edyt,
I like you Edith, but why do you enquire about autism, Edyt?
Actually, I have Friedrichs ataxia, which effects my eye movement. Now, I bet your selfish mind is thinking Edyt, Where, oh where, did I see those words written on this board, and did I ask that person if they had Friedrichs ataxia, after they posted on some subject?
Got some comments about Friedrich’s ataxia too Edit?
I asked because autism is frequently associated with intelligence but a lack of social skills — particularly with regards to communication.
I do recall a conversation with someone who has Friedrich’s ataxia, but I won’t reveal your identity if you don’t wish me to.
Why the alter ego though?
SoMG,
Neither was Ronald Reagan’s marriage to Jane Wyman annulled. Reagan was therefore an excommunicated Catholic.
Annnnnnd?????
SoMG,
I don’t know if you realize this, but Catholic teaching on reception of the Eucharist is meant for Catholics. Which Ronald Regan was not. So his divorce sans annulment is kind of a moot point, no?
Posted by: uspsgirl@gmail.com at May 1, 2008 12:56 AM
I like you Edith, but why do you enquire about autism, Edyt?
Actually, I have Friedrichs ataxia, which effects my eye movement.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And this is an excuse for acting like an imbecile? “Or, another post that Patricia does not get from not understanding the mass induced,,,,,”
On the one side you appear intelligent, yet you act like a mooncalf. Abortion is a matter for a woman and her doktor.
On the other side, je hebt het niveau van een poffertje.