Weekend question
I think I’ve been wrong about Rick Warren and may owe him an apology.
I accused Warren beforehand of soft-balling questions to presidential candidates at the Saddleback forum.
But he did not. His “at what point does a baby get human rights” query to Barack Obama was simple yet expertly phrased and elicited an answer that may have cost Obama the election.
I’ve also accused Warren of being one of those whom we’ve been told is a new breed of evangelical — moving the abortion battle down their list of priorities in lieu of sexier wars to wage, like AIDs in Africa.
It appears I was duped by liberals and MSM. In this week’s World magazine…
And what frustrating misconceptions by his secular observers would Warren like to correct?
At the top of that list… is “that the expansion of the evangelical agenda doesn’t mean a rejection of what we’ve held all along.”
Many in the mainstream media – including the Aug. 18 Time cover story – have made it a point in recent months to speculate that evangelicals are replacing “sin issues” like abortion and homosexual marriage with more trendy challenges.
Warren shows his irritation at such either-or positioning. “If I believe that life begins at conception, which I do believe because of Psalm 139, I’m not going to walk away from that for [the issues of] poverty, disease, and illiteracy…. I want the secularist to know that just because we’re adding other issues does not mean that we’re walking away from the biblical truth and the moral positions we’ve held all these past years….
I was also heartened by the WSJ column I posted yesterday, “Obama is losing support among moderate evangelicals.” My read is that these evangelicals weren’t moderate at all, just duped for a time by Obama’s Jesus talk.
The possibility that Obama may sink on the issue of abortion, that evangelicals and our leaders are still as committed to the sanctity of life as ever, and McCain’s pick of Palin has made this a good week. I am encouraged. This all may be fleeting, but I’m savoring the moment.
I’m not sure of a question to formulate. Perhaps just asking your thoughts on all this will have to do.
[Photo courtesy of Getty]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Jill,
It is an interesting and exciting race. I would like to point out that for months the PCers have stated that abortion is wayyyyyyy down on the list of issues that will come into play in this election if at all.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm………
Abortion is front and center and people are seeing it for real on both sides. As much as the pro-abort side does their best to hide their abortions under the guise of “medical health privacy”, people like you do justice for those unborn who are treated without any sense of worth and kiled in barbaric fashion. And Sarah Palin is a beacon of light on the evil those people perpetrate. With the help and grace of God we will perservere and stop the slaughter by being an example to those who might otherwise get lead down the path of death.
Thank you
truthseeker-
you as well as I know that abortion is not on the forefront of the minds of most Americans, and polls continue to back up that assertion. They may have an opinion, but it is nowhere near the end-all-be-all issue many of those passionate about the issue on either side of the spectrum make it out to be.
“I accused Warren beforehand of soft-balling questions to presidential candidates at the Saddleback forum.
But he did not. His “at what point does a baby get human rights” query to Barack Obama was simple yet expertly phrased and illicited an answer that may have cost Obama the election.
I agree that the tables turned for Obama after the Saddleback Forum. Thank you, Jill, for getting the word out in the blogosphere. We are so proud of you!
Dan,
Looking at the response this week regarding Sarah Palin, there are certainly many people for which abortion is the “end-all-be-all”.
This conversation will not be disappearing any time soon.
“I accused Warren beforehand of soft-balling questions to presidential candidates at the Saddleback forum.
Your humility has blessed my heart and I agree with you 100%…our time has come…I admire you and your advocacy for life and have placed your link on my new blog…blessings Brenda
Janet-
Palin is still new to the scene, watching = caring about abortion. I watched her speech, and I had no intention at all of voting for the Republican ticket at this point. It doesn’t mean abortion is an end all be all, and furthermore Palin is not a realistic view of how the American people in general view abortion, they see not allowing abortion in cases of rape or incest as too extreme, and many still think there should be cases beyond that point during which abortion should still be allowable.
sorry, that should read watching != caring about abortion
Jill:
I wrote to Rick Warren immediately after the Forum. I think he made a huge mistake in the format of the Forum. He should have allowed for his retort to Obama’s and McCain answers.
In not doing so he took the risk of leaving many in the lurch about where he actually stood on the issues. Leaving one is one too many.
Apparently he made his stand clear on life issues in his sermon the next day and his appearance on Hannity and Colmes, however, how many that saw the Forum on Sunday heard his sermon or saw H&C? What 5,000 congregants versus 20,000,000 TV viewers or whatever. Again, leaving one vulnerable and weak Christian on the lurch is one too many.
Unfortunatley, by not making it very clear at the Forum what his views were, without question and rebuttal, he transferred all of responsibilty and affects of the Forum that resulted in decisions and votes of his flock, which reeally extended beyond the wall of his chuch building, to his own head.
The evil of 501c3 legislation was exposed and demonstrated to the world.
Here’s an excerpt of that letter I wrote to Warren:
“As a pastor, to allow a liar to deceive your congregation and your country without being held to account, is a grave sin.
I call on you to expose Obama as the liar that he is…..”
It’s interesting that Palin has actually brought MORE discussion about abortion into the race. I think she upped the awareness. But I don’t know what that will mean in terms of numbers. Dan said that a lot of americans think that outlawing abortion in terms of rape and incest is extreme and might hold that against her. That said, a lot of people might see how she ‘practices what she preaches,’ isn’t a hypocrite and seems to be honest in her positions which brings a positive effect. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
Great point pip,
I am finding that to many of the swing voters the character of the nominee is more important than political agenda or issues.
Dan,
to many Americans the brutal slaughter of babies in the womb is THE most important issue. At least to the ones who think babies in the womb have inherent worth and deserve most of the same protections as everybody else. That being said, it is only now that many Americans are even coming to understand that the baby is more than a blob of cells and hearts and mnds are changing. Try to look at it this way, IF you believed babies in the womb were persons who should be accorded the same protections as persons outside the womb, then would it be the number one issue to you? Cause for many, abortion is just as hideous as a person killing their newborn baby. It is really sickening and disgusting and all other issues pale because of the way we see it a person who would kill an innocent baby has no scruples or compassion for others to begin with, so how can we even think about the rest of their platform.
PiP,
Dan said that a lot of americans think that outlawing abortion in terms of rape and incest is extreme and might hold that against her.
You may be right. That counts for such a small proportion of abortions, I can’t see it being a major issue for middle of the roaders. IMO, it would be a silly thing to base a vote on, although stranger things have happened.
Hi Dan,
I have to agree and disagree with you. Abortion may not be a polling issue but like many non-polled realities it is very much an integral part of how we see ourselves (independent of politics). Other ‘LIFE’ issues like euthanasia of disabled and elderly will soon come to the forefront.
In our eagerness for ethanol fuels many farmers have switched from production of food to bio-fuels. Because they have done so, many of the world’s poorest peoples are now faced with a man-made starvation. Are we ‘our brother’s keepers’ literally? Why is this not polled?
Have you become so enthralled with human-death via abortion? Such a situation can be reclassified as ‘a depopulation measure’ and not as any sort of offense.
Anon,
Someone on the doors said the other day their biggest issue was ‘population control.’ I was a bit taken aback.
I don’t think starvation has much to do with population. It has to do with our lack of foresight and distribution of resources. It’s not that third world countries are necessarily out of resources, it’s that many of their governments could care less about the well-being of their people.
PIP:
You have a heart for people. However, that heart is under your lordship and noit under the Lordship of Jesus Christ, at least not totally. When you decide to surrender to Him completely you will become more powerful than you can imagine. You won’t become Sarah Palin, but you will become like her. Like St, Paul said, “follow me because I follow Christ.”
My mom used to say that “every baby comes with a loaf of bread”.
So, I agree with you that starvation doesn’t come from a lack of resources it comes from poor management.
Well, have a great weekend everyone, have to go cling to my guns and religion.
Intellectual Inconsistency
I was once charged with trespass for refusing to move from the doorway of a building where pre-natal humans were being killed. In the subsequent trial I was interviewing perspective jurors. They all answered questions under oath, understanding that lying would be perjury, a crime. I read the part of the 14th amenndment to the U.S. Constitution which states: ‘nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
I asked each perspective juror which of these three rights was pre-eminent, life, liberty, or property. Each one of them said liberty was the most important. I then asked them how you could possibly enjoy liberty if you had been denied life. They all said you could not. I then said, ‘If that is true, then you would have to say the right to life trumps all others, would you not?’ Each one of them, in turn, agreed. Life is numero uno/number one.
Now here is the interesting part. I could only interview one juror at a time. The remainder of the jury pool was present and heard me ask all the previous persons the same questions. But when it came their turn, each one of them answered the same way. Initially, liberty was the most important right, but when asked how you could enjoy liberty without life, logic dictated that the right to life is our most valuable right.
All the perspective jurors answered the questions honestly. But initially they were all honestly wrong. When required to exercise logic they had to acknowledge the truth: Without life every other right is meaningless.
What kind of embryo/fetus was in your mother’s uterus when she was pregnant with you?
Here are some clues: not bovine, not feline, not canine.
I know this is really difficult for some of you. You do not want jeopardize your bliss by giving up on your willful ignorance.
Are you smarter than a fifth grader?
And all the fifth graders said, “Human!”
What do you say?
ps: They convicted me of criminal trespass. I believe they would have voted to execute me if the penalty had been available. I know some of you would have.
sorry PiP,
the ‘anon’ was me. Please understand that The major culprit here is not their own governments, but us …. the 1st world nations. Since the late 1970’s (Kissinger of the USA) supplying food has been a socializing policy.
Our enemies – we starve them into non-existence. It is very similar to the way we now treat the unborn. WE choose TO KILL !!!! Americans get all twisted up over foreign oil dependency but say zip about this shift in agricultural policy that will spell the death of hundreds of millions who depend on US-agriculture to remain alive.
Can I put it more bluntly: we prefer to feed our cars, than to feed people. Is this the type of government you want?
Hisman,
I appreciate what you’re trying to convey: that Warren had an obligation to correct the candidates when it was obvious that certain statements could be misunderstood by certain viewers as “bible”.
Warren made it clear in the beginning what the purpose of the forum was. And after the forum, he admitted he would have liked to have probed certain questions further, but was constrained by time and the fact that he wasn’t out to play “gotcha”.
I think that by keeping his mouth shut and allowing the candidates to express themselves without having to “debate”, we saw way more than anyone expected, and in turn was the beginning of the end for Obama.
Plus, Warren could not in turn be accused of “Well, he was there to push his agenda, not being fair, those biased Christians, blah, blah, blah.”
The questions were asked, the candidates answered, and most of America saw the Dems press the panic button.
I hope Saddleback becomes an election tradition.
Can you imagine if Palin had been questioned??
I believe this election is very critical for the direction our nation. If our country should pass on McCain/Palin and elect Obama, what a shame it will be. We have a chance overturn Roe with one Justice, if Obama is elected, you can forget about it for decades to come.
I believe all good Christian churches should drop the 501c3 status NOW! and speak UP!
Notice how the MSM and other pro-aborts have raising the Roe. V. Wade question lately.. I thought it was just a ‘wedge’ issue? Now that Roe is being threatened, they’re being exposed for the liars they are.
Dan,
Another reason why abortion is in the spotlight is because the Dem’s picked the most radical pro-abort possible in Obama. The same bill that the Senate passed unanimously 96-0 Obama voted against a year later in Illinois. His entire political upbringing in Illinois was groomed by Planned Parenthood (the face of the abortion industry) and neither Obama or Planned Parenthood denies that they basically pulled his strings and he voted according to their will. Obama isn’t just a pro-choice candidate, an Obama White House would be like having the CEO of Planned Parenthood setting our contry’s abortion agenda. That is radical and it is Obama’s extreme positions and ties to the Planned Parenthood abortion mills that forces the abortion issue to tyhe forefront for even mildly pro-life people. Obama would probably nominate Steve trombley for head of US health and human services and Cecile Richards for Surgeon General and FDA oversight. Obama is just really, really, really scary to pro-life people period. With him he brings Planned Parenthood and their entire agenda. The decisions he made on these issuyes as a senator in Illinois were completely coacjed by Planned Parenthood because Obama himself feels they are above his pay grade. Ugghhhh. Lord help us.
Americans get all twisted up over foreign oil dependency but say zip about this shift in agricultural policy that will spell the death of hundreds of millions who depend on US-agriculture to remain alive.
Hi John,
This is outrageous policy. Any suggestions on how to bring about change? Where to start?
Jasper, excellent QuOTD:
“Indeed, being pro-choice is not a winning issue outside of urban-influenced political environments….
Thus, it is more than a little peculiar to watch Democrats jump up and down declaring insistently that Palin’s pro-life views disqualify her from receiving the votes of women. The Obama campaign’s choice to run radio ads specifically pushing the abortion issue in some of those aforementioned swing states strikes an even odder note.
Obama is particularly vulnerable on this issue given that while America remains divided in a complex fashion on the broader topic of abortion, it remains widely opposed to partial birth abortion and clearly in favor of laws protecting children that survive abortions (the topic of a major Obama fumble at his Saddleback church appearance and the days following).
On this issue, the data and electoral history show that political reality isn’t consistent with what Democrats are currently trying to claim. But that won’t stop them from trying, it would appear.”
~ Sound Politics, September 5
http://soundpolitics.com/archives/011455.html
I can’t wait to read the whole story!
Hi Janet,
That was Jill’s QoTD today. It’s a good one. :)
Oh, Jasper, your name is above it. Are you not doing those anymore?
Carder:
Warren is extremley fortunate that it turned out that way, however, he had no idea that it would beforehand. He could argue that he was led by God to do that and I am not privy to that nor can I challenge that.
In view of the enormous stakes at hand, represented by the impressionable and information challenged souls of those seeing the Forum and the position of authority he placed himself in to provide that information, i. e., as a shepherd of a must larger flock which included believers that don’t go to his church, (the TV audience), in future events he should either at the end or beginning of such a forum, at a minimum, state his personal positons on such things as life, gay marriage, the poor, the war, etc.
That way, Christians can get God’s will from a position of authority, hear the candidates answers, then make a choice of who to vote for. It is then that the hearers that take responsibility for their votes.
The way it was handled, the lack of a retort during or position statement before or after, and the church audience seeming approval by applaud at some answers, I’m afraid, left many Christian searching for answers. By not putting forth his position during the Forum, he took responsibility for that when he didn’t need to. That is all I am saying.
Further, it is very clear in the Bible that teachers and those in positions of authority will be judged much more severely.
By the way, your posts are excellent.
Jasper: Bingo. 501c3 must go NOW!
“As a pastor, to allow a liar to deceive your congregation and your country without being held to account, is a grave sin.
I call on you to expose Obama as the liar that he is…..”
Posted by: HisMan at September 6, 2008 1:58 PM
Oh brother. Self-righteous much?
“Oh, Jasper, your name is above it. Are you not doing those anymore?”
Yes Janet I still do, I do about 4 or 5 per week and Jill does the Sunday quote and maybe another day…. although if anybody has a good quote they can send it me and I’ll post it :)
Also Jasper:
Eliminating the 501c3 will expose those who peddle the Gospel for profit versus those that do it for the love of people’s eternal souls.
I believe eliminating the 501c3 tax legislation is key to overturning Roe v. Wade. Unless the sheep hear the Master on the issue of abortion, they will be food for the pro-abort predators that are so willing to eat them and their children and their souls.
Why does a 501c3 liked Planned Parenthood get to say anything they want and the Church doesn’t? And by Church I mean everyone and everything in the Church including the preacher or priest in the pulpit, the mouth of God? God cannot be pleased by this and is evident by Him saying, “It is not those who say Lord, Lord that will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but those that do, the will of my Father in Heaven”. Well, what if that will includes speaking directly and forcefully against an evil candidate?
I believe all good Christian churches should drop the 501c3 status NOW! and speak UP!
I agree wholeheartedly!!
Hal:
Self-righteousness is defined as finding justification for your views from within yourself. When those self-inflicted views conflict directly with the Word of God, that is defined as being in error and subject to divine judgement.
Sorry, Hal, I didn’t make Jesus Chist up. And I believe the Bible was completed about 1873 years before I was born. My righteouness does not come from me, it comes from outside of myself from the One in Whom I believe, Jesus Christ through the action of His sacrificial death and shed blood on the Cross of Calvary.
Philippians 3:9 “and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ
Hi Janet,
please understand that this is but one of numerous-like policies … iT gets even worse when you understand that many farmers are so efficient that many are PAID TO NOT GROW FOOD by the US government. This began back in the 1950’s.
here’s a site that begins this ‘education’ …… http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/index.php?page_id=187
Jill, I admire what you wrote. I’ve had some mixed thoughts about Warren also; however, I think he did an excellent job with the questions at the Saddleback forum. I wish he would be one of the moderators on the network debates. I think Warren knew what Obama’s position about the BAIPA was and that’s why he asked the question the way he did. It was a perfectly phrased question.
Obama should sink on his abortion position alone. Even if I agreed with him on other issues, the fact that he wants to make the Freedom of Choice Act law when he becomes president, and the potential choices he would make for Supreme Court appointments would stop me from voting for him.
This is important stuff. People need to be reminded of it.
Jill – I don’t think you should blame your opinions on the media. I think it is good for people to accept responsability for their actions and their ideas and not constantly blame others – this is especially true for social comentators who make their living off of their public voice.
That having been said, I agree with Obama. I really don’t want a president who wants control over a womans body. All I care about is that he or she is in control of their own conscience. That having been accomplished, I’m perfectly fine with Obama.
Now about those allegations that Palin had an affair? And that investigation in Alaska into Troopergate? Wow. Elect the woman and you get all kinds of crazy in the family for free!
‘That having been said, I agree with Obama. I really don’t want a president who wants control over a womans body. All I care about is that he or she is in control of their own conscience. That having been accomplished, I’m perfectly fine with Obama.
Now about those allegations that Palin had an affair? And that investigation in Alaska into Troopergate? Wow. Elect the woman and you get all kinds of crazy in the family for free!
Posted by: Yo La Tango at September 6, 2008 8:00 PM”
YLT:
Using your assertion, I ask this, “what about a President having control over a baby’s body?”
I thought we were all innocent until proven guilty. Your statement makes no sense and can only be accepted if you believe 1) That babies aren’t human, 2) That babies have no inalienable human rights that by their nature cannot be taken away, violated, or transferred from one person to another 3) The mother can be judge, jury and executioner and 4) That the President as Commander-in-Chief does not have the duty to protect every citizen of this country including yourself and can violate the Consitution at will.
If all that is true, none, and I mean none of us is safe.
“Eliminating the 501c3 will expose those who peddle the Gospel for profit versus those that do it for the love of people’s eternal souls.”
Amen HisMan.
If Obama is elected though, it will be too late, we will have lost too much. Stevens and Ginsberg are ready to retire, if they get replaced with pro-aborts, there’s a good chance we won’t see Roe overturned in our lifetime. That’s what makes this election so critical.
YLT: “Now about those allegations that Palin had an affair? And that investigation in Alaska into Troopergate? Wow. Elect the woman and you get all kinds of crazy in the family for free!’
YLT,
For 19 months the media (except Hannity) had given Obama a free pass. From Resko, Ayers, Acorn, Wright, Cocaine use, etc. Yet, here we have CNN looking under every nook and cranny to get Sarah Palin. Plus, they gave Joe Biden a free pass, you know his son was involved in some shady investment deals where people lost big money, or the arrest of his daughter for assaulting a police officer. We never here a peep about that do we?
I support your thoughts and sentiments (as usual – boring eh?) here, Jill.
As long as we’re giving props, I’d like to add: thank God for pastor Warren’s seminary classmate, Mike Huckabee, for so effectively running with torch — and running humbly alongside, since.
In many ways, knowingly or not, Gov. Palin has followed Gov. Huckabee’s example (and suffered similar opposition, from both liberals and the Scrooge faction of the conservative set).
Wow, all those pro-choicers were right…I am self-righteous, by definition! Oh well. I’d rather act righteously on account of having come to considerate, compassionate, and just conclusions about how unborn children-my own and other’s-should be treated on my own and be self-righteous than neglect the welfare of the most vulnerable people on earth who deserve our care and protection more than just about anyone else on the planet out of callous selfishness, egotism, and cowardice.
As a non-religious, (self-righteous ^_^) outside observer, I think Warren did as much as he could, and should. I think leaving at least a little wiggle room for thought about the subject serves to force his parishoners to analyze the subject more deeply, perhaps shedding a little more light on a something they had always just nodded their heads about before. This might serve to steel their resolve about an issue they were just lukewarm about before. And, ultimately, I think that being informed is an important individual responsibility, and although a church leader can provide guidance, the person casting the ballot and yaking the stance is the one who has made the decision to do so.
please do not compare palin to huckabee. i’m in ar right now…and he really messed things up. the only thing more crooked in ar than the roads are the politicians.
I don’t think you should blame your opinions on the media. I think it is good for people to accept responsability for their actions and their ideas and not constantly blame others – this is especially true for social comentators who make their living off of their public voice.
Hmmmmm…if only you believed that across the board…
I don’t think you should blame your pregnancy on the pro life movement. I think it is good for people to accept responsibility for their actions and their ideas and not constantly blame others –
FFFFishin’
A man was on the water for his weekly fishing trip. He began his day with an 8-pound bass on the first cast and a 7-pounder on the second.
On the third cast he had just caught his first ever bass over 11 pounds when his cell phone rang.
It was a doctor notifying him that his wife had just been in a terrible accident and was in critical condition and in the ICU. The man told the doctor to inform his wife where he was and that he’d be there as soon as possible. As he hung up he realized he was leaving what was shaping up to be his best day ever on the water.
He decided to get in a couple of more casts before heading to the hospital He ended up fishing the rest of the morning, finishing his trip with a stringer like he’d never seen, with three bass over 10 pounds. He was jubilant!
Then he remembered his wife. Feeling guilty, he dashed to the hospital.
He saw the doctor in the corridor and asked about his wife’s condition.
The doctor glared at him and shouted, ‘You went ahead and finished your fishing trip didn’t you! I hope you’re proud of yourself! While you were out for the past four hours enjoying yourself on the pond, your wife has been languishing in the ICU! It’s just as well you went ahead and finished, because it will be more than likely the last fishing trip you ever take!’
‘For the rest of her life she will require ’round the clock care. And you’ll be her care giver forever!’
The man was feeling so guilty he broke down and sobbed.
The doctor then chuckled and said, ‘I’m just screwin’ with you. She’s dead. What’d you catch?’
Now Obama is saying he regrets his response, and that he wont change the Bush tax cuts until they expire because it would “hurt the economy” to change them.
Anyone else notice how much he has been trying to center himself since he beat Hilary?
“The surge succeeded!!”
Seems odd coming from him when he has been so down on it when he competed against Hilary. I wonder if he would have won the Democratic primary had he held these stances.
Also, you know the whole young voter’s he is pulling in? Turns out that studies show that they are the least politically informed of all voting groups. Good job Obama!
xalisae — please do not compare palin to huckabee. i’m in ar right now…and he really messed things up. the only thing more crooked in ar than the roads are the politicians.
I have read quite a lot about Arkansas under Mike Huckabee and recall no substantiated reports of him involved in such things, while he has stood against them and he has been opposed by entrenched “old boy networks” in both the Democrat and Republican Parties. Don’t think that Alaska is sqeaky clean at this point, either. The Second Coming hasn’t occured, yet.
Jill, I would disagree about the softball questions.
Rick Warren really let McCain off of the hook by asking him about federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. The fundamental issue is about allowing any kind of such research… not the funding source.
Also I believe Obama gave a much more acceptable answer to when life begins.
If he really doesn’t understand, it explains his positions. On the other hand, when McCain said “Life begins at conception”, instead of celebrating we should have been horrified.
If McCain really believes that it proves he is very evil because for his political life he has done nothing to fight for the unborn.
Life begins at conception… but go ahead and use those lives to experiment on.
Life begins at conception… but if his father is a rapist, go ahead and kill that life!
Xalisae: please do not compare palin to huckabee. i’m in ar right now…and he really messed things up. the only thing more crooked in ar than the roads are the politicians.
Right on, X. No matter what – and I’m not the biggest Palin supporter – Huckabee is a wingnut, plain and simple, whereas Palin isn’t.
Darrel @ 5:06,
Also I believe Obama gave a much more acceptable answer to when life begins. If he really doesn’t understand, it explains his positions.
It’s not rocket-science. How could Obama not understand something so straight- forward? It’s simple biology. He stammered for political reasons and apparently reeled you in.
Darrel @ 5:06,
Also I believe Obama gave a much more acceptable answer to when life begins. If he really doesn’t understand, it explains his positions.
It’s not rocket-science. How could Obama not understand something so straight- forward? It’s simple biology. He stammered for political reasons and apparently reeled you in.
Posted by: Janet at September 7, 2008 6:48 PM
…………….
Yes Janet. Everyone knows that life begins at 40. Until then you exist but don’t really have a life.
Sally,
LOL.
Doug,
Say it ain’t so…I’ve got a major crush on Mike Huckabee…what’s not to like? Or maybe it’s because he’s a wingnut that I like him…kindred spirits and all that…
As for the new poll: I was considering both McCain or Obama until Biden was chosen. McCain picking Palin cinched the choice for me. I’ll be voting Obama/Biden. Not a doubt in my mind.
Sally,
I thought you were for small government. Voting for Obama isn’t voting for small government. He will raise taxes big-time, including raising the Death tax, one of the most stupidest taxes of all.
Sally,
I thought you were for small government. Voting for Obama isn’t voting for small government. He will raise taxes big-time, including raising the Death tax, one of the most stupidest taxes of all.
Posted by: Jasper at September 7, 2008 11:21 PM
……………………………….
If you have in excess of 3.5 million to leave to whoever when you die Jasper, I suggest that you gift much smaller amounts well in advance of your anticipated exit.
I seriously doubt if this tax will ever effect you or I. Ever.
Actually, both McCain and Obama propose tax cuts for incomes under $227,000. The difference is where the cuts are proposed. For McCain, the lower the income, the smaller the tax cut. The higher the income, the bigger the tax cut.
Hmmmmm. If taxes are necessary I personally would entertain the concept of a flat tax.
And Jasper, you are obviously all about government interference to the extent of fascism. IMO of course.
Mr. Obama is confused about whether the unborn (or the just born) are human life, so let’s present him with this situtation–You and your buddies (gals) are out deer hunting. You’re in thick brush and waiting for a target. Your gun is braced to your shoulder and finger on the trigger. You see movement in the trees beyond the clearing, but you can’t see the target clearly. Is it a deer, or is it one of your companions? In other words, do you shoot without absolute knowledge of what is it you’re shooting at?
Pro-life is being targeted by the Dems because on all other issues they have failed to make a substantial case to the American people as to why they should be trusted with our future–which is, our children (heaven forbid we should have too many of them). The fact is, the conservative, independent voting block could well be the deciding factor in this election. And, as one caller on a radio talk show put it–“How can we trust a man, who says he is a Christian, quotes Matthew 25 as being the greatest moral failing of America, then justifies abortion and the killing of our weakest citizens?” Obama may say he is a Christian, but there is no doubt in my mind that if Jesus Christ himself were on this earth and a woman asked him if it was OK to kill her child in the womb, he would NOT say is “I know this is a difficult situation for you, but it’s up to your conscience–go to the chief priest and let him decide–this is too much of a theological and moral question for me to answer.” Obama Christan? At least on this one point, he is very confused.
For those who argue the government shouldn’t tell a woman what to do with her body, well now, it didn’t tell her to have sex, now did it? With all the “sex education” which our government supports by giving Planned Parenthood 368 million dollars of our tax-payers money last year, wouldn’t she know that having sex will naturally result in pregnancy? Seems to me if any choice was to be made, it should have been not to have sex–that’s not prudish, it’s just a statement of fact. Of course, we all know that in cases of child sexual abuse, Planned Parenthood protects the child predator by not reporting the crime or the predator. But, hey, if they can make a buck by “helping” out the child and get the taxpayers to pay for it, what do they care if a child predator remains on the loose?–more money for them.
A human life, once begun has its own DNA–which makes it a separate person. The personhood question is the weak link in the Roe vs Wade ruling. If personhood is scientifically established (as it has been) and challenged in the Supreme Court, Roe vs Wade could be overturned.
In the end, however, it is up to us to put our trust in God and not man and make those sacrifices (i.e. prayer and fasting) necessary to root out this evil of abortion. I just love the slogan that I saw on one teen pro-life shirt–“Our goal is not to make abortion illegal. It is to make it unthinkable.”
Sorry for the triatribe. God bless you!
Excellent post Vicki. Thanks for your clarity.
Hmmmmm. If taxes are necessary I personally would entertain the concept of a flat tax.
Posted by: Sally at September 7, 2008 11:56 PM
Wow! Sally, we agree on something.
Say it ain’t so…I’ve got a major crush on Mike Huckabee…what’s not to like? Or maybe it’s because he’s a wingnut that I like him…kindred spirits and all that…
MK, I see Huckabee’s real failing not in that he has different opinions from me, nor that you and he share some kindredness, etc., but rather than some of his positions are truly preposterous – thinking the earth is only 6,000 or so years old, his fondness for “big government” (which should be especially disturbing to conservatives), his flat denials of evolution, etc.
Anyway, don’t you think that Palin is a better pick for McCain than “Huck” would have been?
Sorry for the triatribe.
Ha! Vicki, no need to apologize, and that’s a good one!
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A human life, once begun has its own DNA–which makes it a separate person. The personhood question is the weak link in the Roe vs Wade ruling. If personhood is scientifically established (as it has been) and challenged in the Supreme Court, Roe vs Wade could be overturned.
Personhood is not a matter of science, but rather one of societal attribution. The physical reality of the unborn is not the question. The issue is do we accord rights to the unborn (?), especially if it comes into conflict with the rights and desires of the pregnant woman.
Doug, I also think that the earth is only thousands of years old. Evolutionism is a truly preposterous religion.
:: Twilight Zone music ::
to clarify, my main problem with huckabee is primarily economic. socially conservative, economically weak.