Jivin J’s Life Links 3-31-09
by JivinJ
THREE women were sexually abused during abortions by an anaesthetist, a jury has heard.
Dr. Narendra Sharma allegedly used the hands of the sedated patients to perform obscene acts on himself in the operating theatre.
He was arrested after medical staff at the Marie Stopes International Clinic in Manchester raised the alarm….
Six months later, people who’d had their own stem cells injected into their heart muscle were able to walk longer on a treadmill than the others. It also took longer until they experienced angina pain while walking on the treadmill, and the pain went away faster once they rested than it did in those who’d gotten a saline injection. The stem cell group also had fewer episodes of chest pain.
What has always puzzled me about the Christian abortion advocate is how two positions can be held simultaneously:
1) The position that God calls each of us by name, brought us each into existence in a specific, loving act of creation, treasured just as we are and
2) this same God is either indifferent or enthused when the curette comes for the helpless one that has been, you know…loved into existence and is treasured just as she is…
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
They’re license plates, N.A.R.A.L. Relax. They’re not endagering women’s health by sporting a license plate. They’re just being pro-choice for drivers. Soothe yourselves.
So Katherine Ragsdale calls abortion a “blessing” and the people who work in the baby killing industry are her “heros.”
And BO claims that “no one is pro abortion.” Well what else would you call statements like that?
How long can God withhold his judgement and wrath when we have come to this?
So, an anesthetist was sexually assaulting patients, and the rest of the staff at the abortion clinic reported him to the authorities? And this proves… what, exactly?
“What has always puzzled me about the Christian abortion advocate is how two positions can be held simultaneously”
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I am fairly confident that the question is rhetorical, but just for the sake of fellowship I will attempt to respond to the query.
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Becasuse GOD is omniscient he knows the prenatal humans who will survive gestation and be birthed and those who will not. The ones that will not survive are not invested with either a spirit or a soul. It says in ecclesiastes that we mortals do not know how or when the spirit enters the body in the womb. We can induce from statement that some bodies are never infused and those are the empty bodies that GOD through His mysterious workings leads us to dispose of.
Sometimes GOD lets one slip through who should not just to see if we are paying attention. So we dispose of a few after they are birthed just to let God know we are paying attention.
The little ones who do not survive are spared a bunch of laps around the sun under which there is nothing new.
Though life is sacred, GOD does not put as high a premium on being ‘physically’ alive as we do. ‘To live is Christ; to die is gain.’
So the christians who are an abortion advocates view themselves as one of God’s happy reapers (as opposed to grim reapers).
The harvest is great and the [happy] reapers are few, pray that the LORD would send more [happy] reapers into the killing fields.
Killing is such a morbid amoralizing business that the grim reapers need someone to buck them up. So the happy reapers pat the grim reapers on the behind and tell them to get in there and kill one more for the Gipper. You are doing God’s work, count it all as joy.
They all go out together each morning singing “Bringing in the tares, bringing in the tares, we shall go rejoicing, bringing in the tares.”
And GOD looks on and says, “It is very good. Well done good and faithul servants, great is your reward in this age and in the age to come.”
No greater love has a man than this, that he make the supreme sacrifice and kill in MY name.
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Thats my answer for the stinkin thinkin of christians who are aborton advocates.
yor bro ken
Reality, the point is the clinic shouldn’t of hired this pervert in the first place (typically molesters have a history which the clinic was willing to overlook) and the emotional damage he’s done to patients can’t be undone.
And by history, I’m referring to prior employment dismissal for unusual reasons, prior misdomeanor sexual harassment or otherwise charges, etc.
Also, the newspaper article said the nurse admittedly delayed reporting the suspicious behavior after the first incident, which allowed for two more sexual molestation incidents to occur, so no, everything’s not ok.
Meh.
1) On the license plates, Kaine says he would grant an application by Planned Parenthood for its own specialty plate to promote choice and benefit PP. So I don’t see the problem. PP should take him up on that offer.
2) On whether anyone is “pro abortion,” I would say that it is generally incorrect to say that no one is pro-abortion. I agree that abortion is a good thing and a blessing for women who freely choose it because they do not want to be pregnant. While many regret their choice, many don’t. Abortion is a tool like any other. It’s not a pleasant thing, but it is an option that many women prefer to whatever alternatives they are facing.
That said, no one is pro-abortion in the sense that anyone wants to see women in these situations in the first place. No one wants to increase the number of unwanted pregnancies. That may be what Obama was referring to, though more likely he was trying to imply “common ground” by promoting the (erroneous) notion that all pro-choicers find abortion morally problematic even if we support an individual woman’s right to choose.
3) I am horrified on behalf of the women who were molested during their abortions. I hope this sex offender is punished to the full extent of the law. I would note that dentists and other kinds of medical professionals have been prosecuted for similar offenses. However, there may have been a special kind of misogyny at play here; I speculate that the doctor may have had a “they had it coming” mentality because the patients were there for abortions and may have been considered (in HIS view) as “loose” women.
ProChoicer:
How is that kind of misogyny special? Shouldn’t all (equivalent) kinds of sexual assault be punished equally? Why would the attitude of this very sick man matter? Lots of criminals justify their actions in their own minds.
I think it is horrible that you regard the killing of a child as a blessing. Do you have children? What makes some children a blessing and others not? How are “unwanted” children different from wanted children? What makes them less special or less human?
I suggest that you repent of your evil thoughts and turn to Jesus, who loves you even though you support killing innocent babies. He can give you strength to stand up against this evil instead of bowing down to it, and He can take away any stain of your wrongdoing.
YCW,
Ah, yes. I could have been clearer. What I was getting at is that the misogyny involved in this particular sexual assault may have been motivated (or justified in the assailant’s mind) by the assailant’s views of women who get abortions in particular. Perhaps I should have said he was motivated by a “specific” kind of misogyny rather than a “special” kind of misogyny.
I was not attempting to imply that such views warranted a harsher punishment than the more generalized hostility present in sexual assaults that occur in other contexts.
(However, the violation of the particular vulnerability of a woman undergoing an abortion as well as the violation of her trust in the assailant as a medical professional warrants a harsher punishment than some other kinds of sexual assaults. Judges should take the particular circumstances into account when determining the appropriate sentence.)
YCW,
I hesitate to derail this thread with a debate about abortion, but at risk of doing so, I will answer some of your questions.
— I do view children as a blessing, regardless of whether they are wanted or not. I affirm the intrinsic value of every human being, even the grown-ups.
— I do not have children of my own. I don’t see the relevance of that fact.
— I do not view the killing of children as a blessing.
— I do not view embryos as children. However, I would still be pro-choice even if you could convince me that embryos are children, though I would certainly be far more saddened by abortion.
— As an analogy, I don’t like violence. But I think the right of self-defense is a good thing, a blessing if you will. Certainly, it would be a terrible tragedy if I ever had to shoot someone for breaking into my home and trying to assault me, but I am still grateful that I have the right to do so.
“– I do view children as a blessing, regardless of whether they are wanted or not. I affirm the intrinsic value of every human being, even the grown-ups.”
That is incompatible with the view that it is okay to kill children.
“– I do not have children of my own. I don’t see the relevance of that fact.”
Well, I suppose it means there is some hope that when you do you will see how awful your position is.
“– I do not view the killing of children as a blessing.”
Yes, you do, you said so earlier and state it again later.
“– I do not view embryos as children. However, I would still be pro-choice even if you could convince me that embryos are children, though I would certainly be far more saddened by abortion.”
Embryos are not adults. Embryos are human beings. Therefore, in that sense, they are children. By the way, are you just using “embryo” as a general dehumanizing term, or are you specifically referring only to human beings between implantation and 8 weeks? No surgical abortions are done on embryos, so I assume you also do not feel fetuses are human.
“– As an analogy, I don’t like violence. But I think the right of self-defense is a good thing, a blessing if you will. Certainly, it would be a terrible tragedy if I ever had to shoot someone for breaking into my home and trying to assault me, but I am still grateful that I have the right to do so.”
Your analogy is drastically flawed.
It’s more like the person “invading” your home is a friend to whom you have given a key, you are telling the police to shoot him for you, and he is currently asleep.
Pregnancy is not an assault, and your analogy can’t hold water because pregnancy is rarely dangerous to the mother. Abortion is more dangerous.
So you would kill your own baby if you got pregnant unintentionally? How evil and heartless. I cannot understand how one could commit such a barbarous act. My daughter did not assault me when she implanted in my womb, and she did not assault me as she drew sustenance from my body. She did not assault me when her placenta stopped my body from improperly processing insulin. She did not assault me when she kicked my ribs. She did not assault me when she made her way into the world, even when her emerging head caused my skin to tear. She does not assault me when she pulls my hair, or scratches my face, or nurses from my breasts–because she is a baby. That’s what she does. And even if I wanted to (of course I do not) it would be criminal and wrong to stop feeding her or take a direct action to kill her, though she makes demands on my body, energy, and time. So why should it be legal to kill a baby that has not yet been born?
It is deeply offensive to me that you do not think embryos are children. You do grave injustice to many members of my family.
Pro-choicer,
This particular field may attrack more molesters, misogynists, etc more than most other medical fields, the women are in a vulnerable position, in needing of abortion services and once under anesthesia on the abortion table. And apparently misogynic, racists, or even elitist views apparently aren’t all that uncommon in the abortion clinic setting, out of the mouths of abortion providers:
“Population control is too important to be stopped by some right wing pro-life types. Take the new influx of Hispanic immigrants. Their lack of respect for democracy and social order is frightening. I hope I can do something to stem that tide; I’d set up a clinic in Mexico for free if I could … When a sullen black woman of 17 or 18 can decide to have a baby and get welfare and food stamps and become a burden to all of us, it’s time to stop. In parts of South Los Angeles, having babies for welfare is the only industry these people have.”
Abortionist Edward Allred (quoted in The San Diego Union October 12, 1980) Dr. Allred has become a millionaire 12 times over from the abortion industry
The 54% of Black children born to unwed mothers are not productive members of society. Teenagers never make good mothers….single mothers have bad children.”
Nancy White, speaking on behalf of NARAL, quoted in The American Feminist Summer 1994 p 14
A worker at the “Abortion at Work” clinic was quoted saying:
�They [the administrators] have this pin that says� �The Woman’s Care Center: Working for the Lives of Women,� or something. They do, but not for the lives of the women that work there. They exploit women who work there, and they abuse them…It’s just like working for someone who’s sexist. You have to be “�in” to be treated fairly…which I think is not right.”�
This was said by clinic worker Ilene on page 146.
“If someone came in for a second abortion, the nurse would give her a prostaglandin so that the woman “wouldn’t do it again.” The nurses felt it was up to them to “teach the woman a lesson.” That was a common practice. They would hold women back from having the abortion until they were twelve weeks pregnant and give them a prostaglandin. [a prostaglandin abortion is more difficult and painful because a woman must go through labor] This occurred up until as late as 1984. Their attitude was that the woman has been told about contraception, they’d had an abortion, so they should know better than to get pregnant again by mistake. There was this feeling that there was something wrong with a woman who got pregnant twice or more by mistake.”
Andrea Butcher, abortion counselor
Quoted by Miriam Claire in The Abortion Dilemma: Personal Views on a Public Issue. (Insight Books: New York) 1995 p 125
“The first time, I felt like a murderer, but I did it again and again and again, and now, 20 years later, I am facing what happened to me as a doctor and as a human being. Sure, I got hard. Sure, the money was important. And oh, it was an easy thing, once I had taken the step, to see the women as animals and the babies as just tissue.”
Abortionist, quoted by John Rice (see Abortion Providers Discuss Their Feelings About Abortion reference 12)
“We can not have a pregnant woman working at an abortion clinic.” One employee of [an abortion clinic] told reporters that [the abortionist] threatened to fire her because she was pregnant.
Krishna Rajanna
abortionist
The Pitch 6-16-05 / State of Kansas Board of Healing Arts case # 05-HA-58 / Statement of Detective William Howard to the House Committee on Health and Human Services 3-15-2005
“I’m sure there have been doctors involved in performing abortions who have hated women….If you felt at all sadistic about women, this was an area where you had them completely in your power.”
Quoted by Miriam Claire in The Abortion Dilemma: Personal Views on a Public Issue. p 128-130
“In my practice, we were averaging between $250 and $500 for an abortion, and it was cash. That’s the only time as a doctor you can say, either pay me up front or I’m not going to take care of you. It’s totally elective… Either you have the money or you don’t. And they get it.”�
From Dr. Anthony Levantino, former abortion provider:
“I have seen doctors walk out after three hours work and split $4,500 between them on a Saturday morning. More, if you go longer into the day, of course. The doctor walks in, sees the patient for the first time, pats her on the leg, says, Hi, baby, how are you? You call them ‘baby’ so you don’t have to remember their name….And he doesn’t really ask her any questions. It’s just get the abortion done. If he discovers that she may be further along than anyone thought she was, they stop right there, collect the money, and then finish the procedure…If abortion is such a good thing, why don’t they go ahead and do the abortion then, and trust you to pay the $200 later? That’s not the way it is.”�
From Carol Everett, former abortion clinic owner and worker
“When I mentioned that this particular abortion clinic was a big money-making operation, I only remember one of the doctors stating at one particular time that he could do three abortions in ten minutes and make the same amount of money as delivering one woman full term, and he might have to get up in the middle of the night to go deliver this baby.�”
Kathy Sparks
A mental health professional who has worked with former abortionists says this of their reasons for getting involved in the business:
“When we attempted to find out what got people into the abortion industry, they said it was the power and the money that attracted them. The power was power over life and death.”
From The Washington Times “Former Abortion Provider’s Seek Peace After Quitting” February 23, 2001
Former employees of the Bread and Roses abortion clinic told the Feminist Voices Journal that:
Employee Margaret, “The real philosophy is, each woman is worth X amount of money, and the more women we can see the more money we can make. It was not, ‘How did you treat the patients?’ but “how fast did you draw their blood.”
Sources:
General Quotes from Providers
http://clinicquotes.com/site/story.php?id=31
Abortion and Money
http://clinicquotes.com/site/story.php?id=30
YCW,
Yes, I do not think we are going to agree.
To clarify a couple of points:
— I use the generic term “embryo” because the majority of abortions occur at or before 8 weeks.
— I understand that my analogy is imperfect. You can always distinguish an analogy. My point wasn’t that your daughter was committing an assault when you got pregnant. My point was that you can still view things like self-defense and abortion as a GOOD thing even if you also view the result as sad or something that ideall should have been avoided. I also believe that abortion bears some comparison to self-defense because no one (whether embryo, fetus, baby, or adult) has the right to the use of another person’s body.
— You ask: “So you would kill your own baby if you got pregnant unintentionally?How evil and heartless. I cannot understand how one could commit such a barbarous act. ”
I don’t think you have a basis to make any assumptions about what I would do. My position isn’t really based on my own situation (I am highly unlikely to ever get pregnant) but rather on the issues faced by pregnant women. Women who abort are neither evil or heartless. Some of them simply do not share your belief system. Others are caught in horrible, untenable situations.
My position isn’t really based on my own situation (I am highly unlikely to ever get pregnant) but rather on the issues faced by pregnant women. Women who abort are neither evil or heartless. Some of them simply do not share your belief system. Others are caught in horrible, untenable situations.
By focusing on the pregnancy as the problem and using abortion to fix it misses the bigger picture of underlying socio-economic issues and/or lack of emotional support, which won’t go dissapear just because she has an abortion. As an aquaintance says, it’s like putting a band-aid on a chest wound! Why not address the underlying socio-economic issues, instead of only focusing on fixing the pregnancy.
Rachael C.
Rachael C at 11:53 a.m.:
I think most pro-choicers would say we, as a society, should do both.
I read the quotations in the links provided to clinicquotes and found them mostly positive (with a couple of exceptions here and there). There were honest accounts by abortion providers of women’s behavior and experiences, as well as the financial aspects of providing this service.
I am not especially troubled by the fact that abortion doctors are paid well for their services. I think they should be! I do not assume that this negatively impacts their services (though it can if there is someone unethical involved). But that is true in any profession.
prochoicer,
Really, because all I hear out of prochoicers in the media is a call for more birth control and from these abortion clinic workers, their primary focus is the woman’s pregnancy. Time and time again, they’ve posted about patients in financial or socio-economic hardship and while they boast about how they’ve helped the woman by helping her choose abortion and pat themselves on the back for a job well done, I have yet to see them address the socio-economic needs of the patients they share about. Two cases in example, 1) a homeless woman living out of a locker room, they never made mention of helping her find temporary housing 2)A mother overwhelmed mother taking care of her mentally handicapped daughter (who was pregnant again) and her daughter’s son, never did they propose helping the mother find disability services for her daughter, respite care, or social support services. See my thoughts on this case.
Rachael C.
Wow, you consider examples of blatant greed, misogyny, elitism, and racism positive??? Your view is very colored (no pun intented) by ideology. Try looking at those quotes from a layperson’s view, not that of an abortion-rights supporter (if that’s possible). What would be your first gut reaction?
Rachael C.
Another Chester the Molester abortionist.
Rachael,
I wasn’t suggesting that the clinic workers solve all of the patients’ socio-economic problems.
I don’t think that is practical. For example, I used to be a public defender. My job was to protect the clients’ best legal interests (as defined by the client). I strongly believe that the socio-economic issues my clients faced should have been addressed too. But there was no way that I could possibly provide every service to my clients. I had a specific and limited role. That said, most public defenders support policies and programs that would address more holistically the issues their clients are facing.
Pro-choicers certainly tend to vote in support of policies that would address the root causes of abortion, that would address girls and women’s access to contraception and education, that would address issues of poverty and sexism.
I wasn’t suggesting the clinic workers solve all of the patients’ socio-economic problems, either but at least basic referrals to non-profit social service agencies in their communities, where they could get more comprehensive help is at least a start and better than doing nothing, all while patting themselves on the back for a job well done.
Rachael C.
When are women going to stop defending these creepy abortionists?? They are clearly above the law. They all get a slap on the wrist, and they are able to just re-open another clinic elsewhere. These abortionists are depraved individuals, and they are no better than the back alley day abortionist. Their contempt for females is evident. I wish women would understand. I mean, he’s MOLESTING you while he’s operating on you! SICK, SICK, SICK!!!
Rachael,
I was scratching your head at your comment. Then I realized that I didn’t see your third link, which seems to relate more to racism. (Haven’t read it yet.)
I was referring to your first two links, which, yeah, seem mostly positive, especially the first one about “general attitudes.” The clinic providers indicate that they view themselves as transforming a woman’s future, saving a woman’s life (metaphorically) and providing a service. But I was most impressed by the strong respect and honesty the clinic providers’ showed about the women’s feelings, whether those feelings were doubt, sadness, regret, or relief.
Voting at the booth and then patting yourself on the back for making a difference is shallow at best, but actually getting out, volunteering in the community does more to directly impact these issues.
Rachael
Heather,
Who is defending an abortion doctor who molests his patient? I am pretty sure no one would do that.
Voting at the booth and then patting yourself on the back for making a difference is shallow at best, but actually getting out, volunteering in the community does more to directly impact these issues.
Sure, volunteering is great. (I also think voting is really important.) But I don’t see
what that has to do with the discussion. Do you assume that abortion clinic workers don’t volunteer in their communitiies?
PC, that was not directed at you, but people like Amanda Marcotte and co. might as well be. Why don’t you ever hear their outrage? This is not the first time. This happens more often that you may think.
Abortionist Henry Morgantaler shoved a Kotex into a woman’s mouth during an abortion procedure and told her to “Shut up!!” for screaming in pain. Would you allow your dentist or any other doctor to say this? Why is the guy still in practice?
Ok, I read the third link. And it was mostly or entirely very negative stuff.
Where you lose me though is whether you are saying this is an argument against allowing abortion at all.
Heather,
I have read Amanda Marcotte and Feministing regularly for several years. I am quite confident that they would never defend anyone who committed a sexual assault on a woman (or on a man for that matter).
My only point is that they can’t see how sick minded the abortionist really is. They won’t blog about it. Read Lime 5. It will curl your toes.
PCer, don’t you find Marcotte obnoxious, to say the least?? There is nothing lady like about either one of those women:\
Heather,
I wouldn’t read too much into why a particular blogger chooses one subject and not another.
I don’t. I actually don’t go to either blog. Too creepy.
PC, I was referring to the below comment and was referring to the common pro-choice activist, not specifically abortion providers (discussion had moved on from that).
Often we see what I like to call “armchair activists” individuals who sign occasionaly sign an online petition or go to the voting booth, then give themselves kudos for making a difference in the world, (I’m thinking Amanda Marcotte and some others) while in reality, they haven’t gone out into the community or ghetto and put themselves into the shoes of the people they claim to be representing nor done the hardwork that needs done right here in our communities (community clean-ups, tutoring/mentoring at the local community center, volunteering in repairing a house, soup kitchen, or in a homeless/domestic violence shelter or working with the disabled), all things which would make a quicker and more direct impact (politicians can bicker all day and it can take weeks to get a bill passed).
PC wrote:
Pro-choicers certainly tend to vote in support of policies that would address the root causes of abortion, that would address girls and women’s access to contraception and education, that would address issues of poverty and sexism.
Rachael C.
Heather,
I really do like Amanda in particular. She is definitely not lady-like. But even when she is ridiculing her opponents, there is always a substantive idea behind the ridicule. The ridicule usually (not always, but usually) makes a substantive point.
My main impression of her is that she is a smart, scrappy, original and compassionate person who is ferocious in insisting that women have a right to respect. She has even made me see certain things in a new way. Sometimes she goes off the rails, but mostly she is a good egg.
As for Feministing, I see it as more of a clearinghouse for a lot of information on women’s issues. There is not a lot of in-depth analysis, but it is a useful place to check out what is going on.
Often we see what I like to call “armchair activists” individuals who occasionaly sign an online petition, go to the voting booth, who pass off a check for a charity, drop off clothes at Goodwill, or go to the voting booth, then give themselves kudos for making a difference in the world….
No, the real change comes with the hard working individuals and volunteers in our community, who’s feet are pounding the streets. And I say this as a long time volunteer (my volunteer activities can be found here.
Pro Choicer, I guess that’s where you and I will have to agree to disagree. Amanda is tacky and weird. She blocks comments if they differ from her POV. Jill doesn’t. Don’t believe me? Try posting a pro-life comment, and if it makes it, watch all of the rabid pro-deathers attack.
Rachael,
I hadn’t seen your comment about Amanda when I made mine.
I don’t know what, if anything, Amanda does in the community in addition to her blogging and writing. However, I DO view blogging and writing as a form of activism. It is hard to know exactly but I suspect that blogs make a difference. Ideas matter and they can change individual hearts and minds, which can in turn have an affect in the voting booth, in the jury box, and on the street. This is especially true in the areas of prejudice and discrimination.
Also, I think tons of pro-choicers, including I imaging abortion clinic workers, are very socially conscious. In my case (and no, I am not patting myself on the back), I regularly donate money to an organization dedicated to improving prison conditions and I sit on the board of an organization that serves individuals with severe disabilities and their families. Neither of these relate particularly to the conditions that lead to unwanted pregnancy, but I hope I am still allowed an opinion on abortion and birth control even though I have no personal or financial involvement in ending unwanted pregnancy!
Heather,
We shall agree to disagree!
I really appreciate that Jill and her other moderators welcome dissenting opinions. My favorite blogs tend to involve some sort of debate in the comments threads. That said, I support any blogger’s right to delete or ban people as they see fit — even if I am the one getting deleted or banned.
I tend to think that most of Marctte’s bloggers have had abortions, and they choose to remain in heavy denial about it. Quite comforting to have evryone agree with your choice. Not too comforting to have someone tell you just might be wrong.
*pardon the typos* above post
I agree wholeheartedly that “real change comes with the hard working individuals and volunteers in our community, who’s feet are pounding the streets.” I certainly wouldn’t claim to have ever been in that category, but I know plenty of people on both sides of the debate on choice who do lots of real, hard-core volunteerism.
I don’t really judge people who don’t do that stuff — perhaps because I am in that category. People have differing obligations (particularly demanding jobs or family obligations), and different talents (some are better at writing, some at fundraising, some at lobbying, some at working directly with people who need help). I think what’s important is that people do what they can, even if it is just writing a check.
People have differing obligations (particularly demanding jobs or family obligations), and different talents (some are better at writing, some at fundraising, some at lobbying, some at working directly with people who need help). I think what’s important is that people do what they can, even if it is just writing a check.
I guess I’ll just have to agree with you on this :-)
I know plenty of people on both sides of the debate on choice…
Let’s call a spade, a spade and quit with the euphemisms, we’re referrring to abortion rights/fetal rights debate are we not?
That was me, BTW :) And I’ve been here at the library for quite a while now and am heading home. But I’ll probably drop in later, mobile from my cellphone.
Rachael C.
PCer,
“I support any blogger’s right to delete or ban people as they see fit — even if I am the one getting deleted or banned. ”
I actually very much agree with this comment.
Oh, I do as well. I was only mentioning it because Amanda is not open to other POVs. I can only speculate as to why. And my reason is posted above.
I’m hoping not to derail the conversation here, but I have a question:
Does anyone know if there are any qualifications that need to be met to work at a crisis pregnancy center? I was hoping that I could volunteer, but I worry that a). I’m too young and b). they can only accept people who meet certain criteria.
Does anyone know? I would like to volunteer- but I’m not sure how to go about doing this.
Sorry to get off-topic.
Vannah,
Make sure that Bethany sees your question. I know that she volunteers at a CPC, and I know she’d be very happy to answer your question.
Anonymous, I don’t think calling it a debate about choice is a euphemism at all. We are arguing about whether women should have a particular choice or not.
I don’t have a huge problem with calling it abortion rights/fetal rights either, though those terms don’t really don’t quite correspond to each other. It puts in the fetus but only refers to the woman obliquely!
Thank you, Mr. Bambino. If I see her name on one of these threads anywhere, I’ll ask her.
Hey Vannah,
I am involved in a center and we do the training and welcome volunteers!! I suppose it would depend on where you live and the centers in your area. There is ALWAYS something you can help with! Go for it, girl!!
Oh, hooray. In my area, there are two in Farmington and one in Aztec. They’re very small and quiet and I would probably end up sweeping or something because I have a feeling that adult women will stare at me and ask me what I could possibly know and I would have to say, “Touché. I’ll get back to dusting now.” Oh, I would love to help as a sort of enrichment guru, though. The kind of person who can’t fill out paperwork for cheaper prenatal care but can try and make their lives more interesting- and their children’s lives more interesting. Or maybe serve as like a babysitter or something.
What exactly do you do at a center, Mrs. Carla?
I am on the board of directors. I am helping right now with fundraising, starting an abortion recovery program and the Bella Hero Project.
http://www.bellahero.com
Also, when I speak locally I refer others to our center for help.
Vannah, go for it. Just start looking to local areas on line and jut GO for it!!!!!! You go, girl!! Getting active in one way or another is the best medicine.
Carla, that’s wonderful!!!!
Hooray for all of the wonderful work that you do! I’ll try to call them tonight and see if they need a broom manager. Thanks!
Posted by: Prochoicer at April 1, 2009 2:23 PM
As for Feministing, I see it as more of a clearinghouse for a lot of information on women’s issues. There is not a lot of in-depth analysis, but it is a useful place to check out what is going on.
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‘Feministing’ is my site of choice for all things liberal. I love their mudflapesque icon flippin it to ‘the man’. The irony is comical.
Judge em by their brains, not their bra size.
Bras are now recognizes as valuable fashion accessories. They serve a usefull purpose in resisting the negative effect of gravity.
A lesson re-learned the hard way.
There is a lot conflating and conflatulence going on there, but not much conservative content.
I have yet to see a post by a ‘liberal lesbian for life’.
My younger sister the doc was quite the feminist, but when I suggested she do an little research before she started contributing ‘cash’ to the cause she quickly discovered that she had little in common with the ‘feminism’ these feministas espoused. It was more about leftist ideology that it was about empowering women.
Susan B. Anthony they were NOT.
yor bro ken
Posted by: Vannah at March 31, 2009 1:42 PM
“They’re license plates, N.A.R.A.L. Relax. They’re not endagering women’s health by sporting a license plate. They’re just being pro-choice for drivers. Soothe yourselves.”
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It would be beneficical if abortion rights advocates had their own personalized licence plates, then we would know who they are and could take steps to avoid them.
I suggest a slogan like “Choose Death” inside the shape of a rusty coat hanger.
Or “Dead Babies R Us”.
for the christian abortion rights advocate I propose the following:
“To die is gain”
“Lay down and die”
“I die daily”
“No greater love”
“Do not shrink back from death”
All appropriately ambiguosly eupehemistic.
yor bro ken
yor bro ken
Ah, Prochoicer is a lawyer.
Do they take away your conscience when you enter the profession, or does it just attract those without one?
You implied that you were glad that you had the right to abortion in the same way you were glad you had the right to self-defense. You seemed to imply you would use it if you “had to.” If I am wrong, I am glad of it, for the sake of any children you might have.
I would think that a woman who has struggles with fertility would be more attuned to the value of a baby’s life than others. But perhaps it is sour grapes that makes you think it a blessed thing when other women kill the child you cannot have?
I really cannot see how you can be so ignorant of how wrong and hateful and insulting the things that you say are.
Posted by: Prochoicer at April 1, 2009 4:23 PM
“We are arguing about whether women should have a particular choice or not.”
“It puts in the [human] fetus but only refers to the woman obliquely!”
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The ‘particular choice’ with respect to pregnant women is not something so innocuous as to what color to paint the nursery or whether to go ‘natural’ during the birthing process.
The ‘particular choice’ is whether or not to choose to kill her prenatal child.
We would not want to be oblique about the ‘particular choice’.
Only the mad man or crazy woman could fail to acknowledge the inherent value of the woman, pregnant or not.
(I challenge to find one example where somone posting on this site as ‘prolifer’ has as much as suggested that women, pregnant or not, were second class citizens in the human family.)
Nothing ‘oblique’ about the inclusion of the pregnant woman in the discussion about her killing her own HUMAN embryo/fetus.
With respect to the decision for an abortion, the pregnant woman is the one exercising the ‘particular choice’ to kill her prenatal child.
If there is any deliberate, calculated, willful, ‘obliqueness’ in this discussion it is by those who wish to deny not just the humanity, but the existence of the preantal human.
yor bro ken
“THREE women were sexually abused during abortions by an anaesthetist, a jury has heard.”
“Dr. Narendra Sharma allegedly used the hands of the sedated patients to perform obscene acts on himself in the operating theatre.”
“He was arrested after medical staff at the Marie Stopes International Clinic in Manchester raised the alarm….”
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Seems to me it was Sharma who ‘raised’ the alarm.
Please tell me that this is not real. Tell me it is a Monty Python skit.
The ‘support staff’ witnessed the ‘Sharma being squeezed’ three times before they spoke up. [Please don’t squeeze the Charmin.]
I have to wonder what the ‘support staff’ were thinking after the first and then the second incident.
When the ‘support staff’ went to the neighborhood pub after the days work, how did the conversation go when they got around to broaching the unseemly subject?
Given the particulars of this story, if I had been a member of the ‘support staff’, I would rather have been referred to as the ‘enablers’.
Rush Limbaugh used to read stories on the air about ‘toe suckers’.
Apparently, women would awaken to discover some stranger in their room sucking their toes.
Then they were the stories about the ‘toad lickers’.
Seems there are frogs who secrete a substance that when ingested orally produces halucinations. People actually go in search of frog to lick.
I wonder if all these folks have their own support groups or clubs.
“Hi, My name is Barack and I suck toes and lick toads. Do not judge me.”
yor bro ken
Lawyers for Dr Sharma, 51, said, claim, have claimed he was the innocent victim of a campaign of racism, bullying and lies.
Stephen Camlish, defending, said staff at the clinic were ganging up against Dr Sharma and making up ‘wicked’ lies because he was not a member of their clique.
But Mrs Ackroyd denied she and other staff members were ‘bullies with racist tendencies’ or that Dr Sharma was the innocent victim of a campaign of outrageous lies orchestrated by another doctor.
She told the jury: “I have never been described as a bully and I have never been racist.”
Mrs Ackroyd denied making ‘unpleasant’ jokes about Dr Sharma but did admit she did not report her allegation until some time later.
“With hindsight I wish I had done,” she said. “If I had reported it would not have happened again.”
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Reminds me of Sandy Berger, former member of the Clintion administration’s lame defense: The classified documents fell into my pants and down into my socks, then fell out of my socks and under a trailer then secreted themselves and waited for an opportune moment later that night to gain readmittance to my socks, where they remained undetected till I disrobed for bed.
When I realized what had transpirred, I wanted deperately to return the documents to the National Archives but I feared being apprehended in the attempt and I knew no one would believe my explanation.
Berger underestimated the gullibility of Obama devotees.
yor bro ken