Pedophile protecting Planned Parenthood caught again
Live Action Films today released video #4 in its Mona Lisa Project. This is a series of short films secretly shot at Planned Parenthoods around the country last summer exposing mill workers perfectly willing to help underage girls who had been statutorily raped by adult men get abortions without notifying authorities.
First, let’s review.
- LAF released its 1st 2 videos (read here and here) exposing 2 IN PPs in December. These resulted in a sacrificial firing of 1 staffer, resignation of another but most importantly an attorney general investigation.
- Video #3 showed a Tucson, PP aiding and abetting underage rape. PP of AZ said they would investigate. Big whoop. That was 6 weeks ago with silence since.
Video #4 continues the exposure of PP of AZ child sex abuse. It captures PP workers at 2 Phoenix chop shops engaging in yet another rape cover-up.
The LAF press release reminded us PP of AZ has a history…
This is not the first time PP of AZ has failed to report sexual abuse. In 2002, an AZ judge found the abortion provider negligent for failing to report the sexual abuse of a 13-year-old girl by her 23-year-old foster brother, who brought her to a Phoenix-area clinic for an abortion in 1998. After PP kept silent about the abuse, the sexual relationship continued and led to a second abortion 6 months later.
Here was the scenario presented by the 2 undercover LAF videographers:
Lila Rose and Jackie Stollar, both college students posing as 15-year-old girls… told employees at one clinic that Stollar needed an abortion because her adult “boyfriend” had impregnated her, giving his age as 27-years-old at the second clinic.
AZ state law requires law enforcement to be contacted immediately if an adult-child relationship is revealed. Failure to report incidents of sexual abuse are punishable under this law.
After Stollar explains that her boyfriend is “a lot older than me,” a staffer at the first clinic states: “we don’t ask any questions.” At the second clinic, upon hearing that the boyfriend is 27-years-old, the employee reassures the girls that “everything is confidential.” She also tells the girls she will not intervene: “I can’t say ‘Don’t’ you know or ‘I’m gonna go and do this.’ I cannot be that way, it’s not me.”
When will the government stop funding these pedophile protectors?
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
This is getting absurd…how many times will this happen before people realize that this is common practice with PP and is harming, not helping, young women who have been victimized by men?
Oh yes these feminists are really here to help protect those young girls arn’t they?! They want to keep protecting PP because they are a big part of the ‘womens freedom of choice’ movement. But yet PP continues to put young women in risk by NOT reporting rape/insest/dangerous relationships and providing abortions without parents consent. I know darn well that if a parent knew about their daughter being in a sexual or emotionial relationship with someone over the age of 18 they would be throwing a fit and doing all they could to stop it. *Most* parents would do this, not all though.
Lol. This while the catholic church petitions to not extend the statute of limitations on molestation prosecution. For every doctor that fails to ask the right questions there are hundreds of priests that lack basic human discretion. So should I sue my former pediatrician for not asking me at my physical when I was 13 if I was raped? So do you want to go after every doctor? What about optomitrists? In many states people who work at Lens Crafters are considered mandatory reporters.
Oh, this is just getting ridiculous.
Statutory “rape” and pedophelia are two completely different things. I certainly don’t agree with older men having sex with teenage girls, but it is not comparable to actual rape or molestation of children. Rape is an act of violence. Pedophelia is a perverted act of force and manipulation of prepubesant children. Statutory “rape” is an act of consensual sex. To liken it to other crimes trivializes what actual rape and molestation victims have gone through.
Way to try to change the subject, YLT.
The fact is, whether or not anyone else in the entire universe is living up to what is required… these clinics are violating the law blatantly.
These are not hypotheticals for me, I am a pediatric nurse and I am a mandatory reporter. I know the laws in Arizona, and this is a violation of those laws.
I guess I have more phone calls to make. Let’s see if I get further this time.
Nicole, how old are you? I’m sorry, but 13-15 year old girls are not capable of understanding the ramifications of their actions… they are being preyed upon by men in their late 20s and 30s. We see a lot of that here. (Even worse, in far too many cases, the “boyfriend” is friends with the girl’s dad and has his permission! We see a lot of this with girls from Mexico, unfortunately.)
I recommend you study some more about development. The adolescent mind is actually *less* capable of accurately forecasting the long term ramifications of their actions than the mind of a pre-pubertal 8-12 year old. This appears to be due to the rapid growth and changes that take place both neurologically and endocrinologically at this time.
When parents comment on how great their kids were as preteens and how they “went crazy” as a teenager, that is not just perception… that is a valid observation of even GOOD kids. My oldest is an amazing kid but some of the things she does you just have to shake your head and say, “What were you THINKING?” and then of course the fact is, she wasn’t. Thank heavens, like I said, she’s a really good kid and her messups fall into the trivial areas of life.
YLT,
Please take your anti-Catholic rantings elsewhere.
I am 20, and at the age of 13 I certainly knew how to say no. If a man doesn’t listen to that it is rape. Actually victims of rape don’t get a choice. To compare some teenager making a stupid choice to a girl or woman who was physically violated is offensive. I’m not saying men should be having sex with stupid teenagers. I’m just saying it is in no way similar to the violent act of rape or the sick act of pedophelia. Rape victims have to put of with enough. They shouldn’t be likened to foolish teens.
When will Cecile Richards @ PP be held accountable? MSM, where are you????
“Statutory “rape” is an act of consensual sex”
Posted by: Nicole at March 18, 2009 1:17 PM
@ Nicole,
If it is consensual sex then please explain to me what happened when I was 12 and a registered sex offender at the age of 16 (he molested his two sisters) managed to get me into a room, offered a back rub and a ‘talk’ and proceeded to statutorily rape me because I was too scared to tell him ‘no’. My mom found out about it (THANK GOD) and we went through the whole pre-court thing, calling the cops, meeting with a consuler. That boy had ME so convinced that I agreed to the sex, but I really didn’t. I was too afraid to procecute him b/c of the neighborhood I lived in. I wish now that I would have brought him to court but when I’ve talked with procecuters on this issue they told me it would have been hard to prove rape and at best this guy would have got more probation since they would have only convicted him of satutory rape in my case.
I just LOVE Google! Check this out.
Donate to LifeSiteNews in the name of Planned Parenthood president, Cecile Richards, and we will mail her a personalized card telling her that your donation was made in her name.
For more info go to:
https://lsnusa.qbasefundraising.com/landing/online_donation.aspx?LANDING_PAGE=LifeSiteNews.com/donate/pp&TRANSMISSION_ID=130&EMAIL_RECORD_ID=3&RANDOM_KEY=1710326594
AK Krystal,
I am so sorry about your horrible experience. Thank you for having the courage to speak openly about it.
No problem Janet. I know that my life experience may help others who have gone through similer situations. The more people I tell the better I feel though.
If you did not consent it was rape. I’m refering to cases where a teenage girl is in a relationship with an older man and is actively participating in sexual relations. If intimidation was used and you are not a willing participant it is rape. I just do not think a 15 year old having consensual sex with an 18 year should ever be likened to a victim of rape.
At 13 you knew to say no to a rapist, an obvious attacker. These predators are far smoother than that. They take their time and seduce these girls by giving them attention and approval. 13-15 is a difficult time for girls, they don’t feel like they fit in, they feel ugly, they are horribly mean to each other. Add to that a girl who may have no father at home, or one who is distant, a workaholic, abusive, or any number of issues… maybe they just aren’t getting along so well.
Then along comes a “young” older guy… a teacher, a guidance counselor, a family friend. He lets her talk. He never judges. He makes her feel special. He gets her special little presents “just because”… little by little he learns exactly what buttons to push and how to manipulate her.
These girls honestly believe they are in love with a wonderful man who is going to set up house with them and take care of them forever… and its all a lie.
Just because it doesn’t involve violent force doesn’t make it not rape.
“Statutory “rape” and pedophelia are two completely different things.”
Posted by: Nicole at March 18, 2009 1:17 PM
Nicole, they’re not much different. They’re still people who pray on the younger, weaker children and teens.
I’m pretty sure someone who is 26 years old and sees a cute tenny bopper aged 14 SHOULD know that no matter what that girl/boy does they shouldn’t even lay a hand on her/him. Common sense, you would think.
Nicole: “Statutory “rape” is an act of consensual sex.”
Anon: “at the age of 13 I certainly knew how to say no”
Surely you understand that statutory rape has nothing to do with the capability to say no?
3 year olds know how to say no when they dont want something to happen. Come on, just think about it for a few minutes.
The problem is that 15 year olds, as well as year olds, have no understanding of what they are participating in even if, gasp, it is consensual. The victimization stems from the abuse of maturity perpetrated by the abuser. A 3 year old may think the sexual act is a game, but it doesnt mean the kid is “okay” in the long run with the molestation. The same is true for some, if not all, 15 year olds. They do not really understand the implications of sex and are victimized by the abuser. Trust me, as a 24 year old male, any guy with an attraction to a freshman in highschool that willingly follows through with the attraction is mentally disturbed and is preying upon the child’s imaturity.
To claim that this is not rape is to trivialize those who did and do not fully understand the actions willed upon them.
But of course, I forgot that anything is worth sacrificing to protect the sacred right of abortion! How dare we find issue with that…
Rape, by definition, is an act of violence. Those girls you mention sound foolish. Real victims don’t get a choice. They are violated in a way that some foolish girl allowing some guy seduce her could never understand. Rape isn’t about sex for rapists. They want to control and to humiliate their victims. The men you describe do want sex. They sound like losers to try and get it from foolish young women, but the motivations and crimes aren’t even remotely similar to rapists.
Nicole, you have NO idea what you are talking about.
“If you did not consent it was rape. I’m refering to cases where a teenage girl is in a relationship with an older man and is actively participating in sexual relations. If intimidation was used and you are not a willing participant it is rape. I just do not think a 15 year old having consensual sex with an 18 year should ever be likened to a victim of rape.
Posted by: Nicole at March 18, 2009 1:52 PM”
Nicole, I was 15 years old when I got pregnant with my son, BEFORE my son was born in 12-20 my ex-boyfriend and now husband turned 18 on 12-6. Okay, so yes I see where your point is on that issue and I agree most of the time.
Although there are a lot of relationships that I’ve seen that were kind of similar to mine but very different in the fact that they were ‘loved’ into the rape. Meaning their attacker never hurt them, he became prince charming so he could get a young piece of a$$…sorry for the language but this is how men think most of the time when their chasing those high school or even middle school girls.
These men would make these girls, often my friends since we were the outcast kids, feel sexy/wanted/hot and buy them weed, alcohol, ciggarettes, meth even to earn their trust. They had cars and a house of their own. They made these girls feel like he was their knight and shining prince when really he was a sicko.
Nicole I don’t know how perfect you were as a young teen but are you blind to the men who swoon these young girls like this, would you not consider this a man who is praying on young girls even though he states he ‘loves her’ is rape (and not satutory rape)??
Rape, by definition, is an act of violence. Those girls you mention sound foolish.
So it’s okay to prey on girls as long as they’re “foolish”.
Nicole, you just aren’t getting it. It is still about control and power. We are not talking about a 15 year old girl who got talked into the back seat of a car by a 16 year old boy with only sex on his mind. THAT is just about sex.
We are talking about the deliberate entrapment of a child by an adult who has a far stronger grasp of the world, who is in a position of power (even if that is just by virtue of being older) and who manipulates and controls this girl. Just because he does it “nicely” doesn’t make it better!
You have to ask yourself, why would a guy in his 20s and 30s prey on young teen girls? It is because women his own age see through his crap and refuse to be controlled by it. It is all about control.
The fact that you still think that this is about sex points out that you have not yet gained enough distance from *your* teenage years to gain some perspective on it. That’s okay, it will come with time.
On an off note.
Obama has been reported as saying that the White house was not at fault over the AIG bonuses….yet Senator Reid is claiming that legislature designed to specifically prevent this problem was removed in “closed door” talks between the Whitehouse and House of Representatives. In fact, according to Reid, the language in the bill that specifically PROTECTS the bonuses for AIG was added in those same meetings. He is actually confused as to what happened. Wonder why Obama is so pissed ofF? Aparently he was in on the cnanges that specifically protected and allowed for this happen? Hm, weird.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/17/aig.bonuses.congress/index.html
In case anyone is interested in reading about it.
I wonder if Obama will be known as “Honest” Barack as his idol is known?
“Rape, by definition, is an act of violence. Those girls you mention sound foolish. Real victims don’t get a choice. They are violated in a way that some foolish girl allowing some guy seduce her could never understand. Rape isn’t about sex for rapists. They want to control and to humiliate their victims. The men you describe do want sex. They sound like losers to try and get it from foolish young women, but the motivations and crimes aren’t even remotely similar to rapists.
Posted by: Nicole at March 18, 2009 2:01 PM”
Oh yes Nicole, those girls are just foolish….
Those girls are pretty much brainwashed!
Does satutory rape become regular rape in your eyes when these foolish girls get dumped by their much older prince charmings and their feelings are now hurt? That is emotional violence right?! Emotional abuse…..is abuse non the less.
So if a 3 year old goes along with molestation out of confusion, you wouldnt consider it “rape” and therefore not a big deal?
Most of you have no idea what rape is. It is an act of violence and control. It is not about sex! Rapists do not want sex. They want to control and humiliate their victims. They do not love their victims. They force them. If a woman is does not consent to a physical act it is rape. There is no half way. Ifshe does consent it is not rape. Any rape counselor could tell you this.
BY LAW, it’s rape whether it is consensual or not, Nicole.
Are you ok, Nicole? I am just wondering. You seem to want to defend young girls having sex with older men even though statutory rape laws are there for a reason. To protect.
Oh and this reminds me of one of my bestest friends in the world who died at the hands of her ‘statutory rapiest’ when she was 17 years old. She died from a meth and tylenol overdose in 2004 from her much older boyfriend providing it to her because it would make sex that much better he told her. He controlled her life but you know he loved her right, so that makes her just foolish. She died alone in their bed on a cold night in October 2004.
He then fled to Mexico but was caught a couple of years eariler. Sorry I cannot find the newspaper articles anymore, i had them saved but I don’t know where they went.
RIP Tiffany Holley!
So a 3 year old is not raped if he/she goes along with it. Got it.
Oliver, a 3 year old is not sexually mature. A 3 year old can not consent. Any sexual act committed on one is pedophelia, and not comparable to a 15 year old having sex.
I was violently raped as a young teen. You might want to reconsider that you know nothing about our lives before you determine that we don’t know what we are talking about.
Dont worry Krystal, Nicole has no idea what she is talking about.
Under her defintion you couldnt rape a willing adult with down syndrome either. The same with 3 year olds.
Im just curious Nicole, would you not think it was at least “bad?” If so, would you not think it as “bad?” If so, would you not agree that what PP has done, yet again, is “bad?”
Just curious how consistently you extend your defintion and what the consequences are.
I am so sorry Krystal and Elisabeth.
“It [rape] is an act of violence and control.”
Here is a question I’ve always wondered about that. If rape is not about sex and is about violence and control, why do things like ruffies, GHB, and Spanish fly exist? These drugs that are designed to make the victim unconscious and hence an easy target for sex. If it was all about power and dominating someone, I would think that there wouldn’t be much of a feeling of power and domination in having sex with someone who can’t even fight back, who is just laying there unconscious. I don’t know. Am I way out in left field on this one?
Nicole: “Oliver, a 3 year old is not sexually mature. A 3 year old can not consent. Any sexual act committed on one is pedophelia, and not comparable to a 15 year old having sex.”
If a 3 year old cannot consent, then neither can a 15 year old consent. This is rape. Pretty simple right?
Put me with those of you who don’t want men over 20 having sex with girls under 18(and especially 16 and under). Period.
It’s one thing for planned parenthood not to ask how old the “boyfriend” is. I could probably overlook that, but if they are told and the violate the law, I have no patience for that. If there is a valid reason to except abortion providers from the law (and I don’t see one) then they should try to seek a legal exemption. Otherwise, I see no justification for failing to abide by this law.
As I said the last time this came up, strong leadership at Planned Parenthood could fix this *if they wanted to*
Bobby: “Am I way out in left field on this one?”
No you are not. As un-politically correct this sounds, rape is sometimes about sex. Of course, in Nicoles mind, your examples would not be rape because they are not sexually violent.
Go Hal!!! Let’s defund PP together!! :)
A 15 year old seduced into sex by a man in his 20s/30s/and beyond is in no way more capable of the foresight necessary to understand the manipulation than a 3 year old is. These are skillful predators we are discussing.
How does one determine consent… if, as you say, if she did consent then it is not rape? The fact is, that is why there are statutory rape laws on the books… because the law recognizes that the minor is not capable of giving consent.
There is no halfway? Believe me, there is an entire WORLD of gray area that causes no end of grief to victims because it is preyed upon by sadistic, twisted people (not all men, btw). It causes lengthy, complicated trials and can result in exonerations for evil people.
What if she consents because she fears that if she doesn’t she will be abandoned with no home or food or means of support? What if she consents because she feels she “owes” him for “saving” her from a bad home life?
I am a pediatric RN. I work with all ages, but also with teens. I work in an innercity county hospital with teens who don’t have the best education (by a long shot) or much worldly experience. Believe me, statutory rape is a big deal. It is just as devastating to its victims, with lifelong consequences.
Maybe you all need to see outside source to know what rape is:
http://www.4girls.gov/safety/saferelationships/daterape.cfm
If you all must know why I am so passionate about this. It is because my sister was raped. She was walking to her dorm, when she was forced to the ground and her clothes were removed. She was not seduced. She was given no choice. She was violently assaulted. I suggest some of you speak to rape counselors before you give label sexual acts rape. You are playing politics with rape and pedophelia. Jill herself used the term incorrectly. A pedophile is someone attracted to young children. You trivialize these crimes when you give these incorrect labels.
Kudos to Hal.
Nicole is having a hard time identifying with the problem because she is more than likely viewing this from the point of view of a 15 year old girl. Try to view it from the point of view of a 27 year old guy. Again, as a 24 year old guy, I can let you know that this is an abuse of power and completely twisted.
I agree that there the molestation of a three year old is even sicker, as a three year old does not have any sexually attractive features even in the most objective sense. I also believe that date rape is not AS bad as molesting a 15 year old. However, they are all rape and should all be punished. Calling one or the other not rape, or defending those who support one or the other is completely off-base.
Wouldnt you find it disgusting if one of your friends pursued a relationship with a 15 year old guy?
Nicole, sorry to hear about your sister, but you need to relize that not all forms of rape are violent like those. Not all consulers know what their talking about either. You should have been there when talking with one. All she was asking me was, “So did you say yes or no to him?” and “Do you think you could be pregnant?”
I was raped although I didn’t say ‘no’ and I didn’t get physically hurt but emotionally I was cut deep. Very deep, it even affected my parents, my friends and anyone else to crossed my path. We’re not saying your wrong, we’re trying to show you that not all rape is violent.
@Carla… thanks honey, I made a lot of stupid decisions after that, but God, through my precious Alison, saved me from a very destructive path in life.
@Bobby and Oliver: Yes, there is a component of sex involved in rape, otherwise they’d just bludgeon the person and be done with it. The sexual act is a particular invasion of the person that simply cannot be obtained without that particular violation. There is actually a sense of power for some men when the person IS completely unconscious… hence orderlies who rape coma victims in long term care facilities, etc. Some guys get off on the concept that the woman will have only vague memories if that of the event and enjoy then being around her afterwards, watching her for any sign of recognition of his “power” over her. That is common with the date rape scene in colleges. The woman barely remembers, can’t identify who, and the guy who did it gets to watch her go through all the turmoil and pain.
The level of perversion that humans are capable is enough to turn anyone’s stomach, have they half a heart.
Nicole, it doesn’t deminish your sister’s rape to acknowledge that other forms of rape occur as well.
I was molested as a child, but that does not mean that I don’t recognize other forms of child molestation as what they are., even if the children involved are older.
Oliver, we had this situation arise in my in laws side of the family. My brother in law was I’d say 22 when he was with a 15 year old. He bought her a four wheeler, her and her parents cells phones, etc. In his mind he knew it was wrong. We were all SO SO SO angry with him. But the stupid part of it was HER parents allowed him to live at their house because he was such a nice guy you know. From what I heard there was no penile/vaginal intercourse but there was oral intersource invovled. I beleive this to be rape in my mind. He totally took advantage of the situation and of the girl and pretty much deceived the parents of this girl that he was a respectable man.
Nicole. Listen to me. I was violently, forcibly raped. I was given no choice. I know precisely of which you are speaking.
The fact that THAT is one type of rape does not stop statutory rape and predation of minors by mature men from being ANOTHER type of rape. If the rape counselor said that, they are either misinformed or incompetent (or were misunderstood by either your sister or you, not improbable given the volatile emotional state you must both have been in after such an incident.)
It in no way detracts from the horrible situation of violent rape victims to acknowledge the illegality, immorality and evil of statutory rape.
Elisabeth, I think I love you!
I wish you had a blog link on your name, you seem like a VERY knowledgable woman.
Elisabeth: “It in no way detracts from the horrible situation of violent rape victims to acknowledge the illegality, immorality and evil of statutory rape.”
I dont think you get it. It detracts from PP if we acknowledge this. Thats what the real debate is all about. If some Crisis Pregnancy center did this, Nicole would have been all over it.
Nicole,
I am so very sorry. You are fighting for your sister. That is obvious. I can hear your anger. She is blessed to have you!!! We are not the enemy though. We happen to care very deeply about the innocent, about victims of unspeakable things and about JUSTICE.
I heart Elisabeth.
Quite true, Oliver… but I think in this case Nicole may be more affected by her sister’s situation than by her love of PP. In general, that would be the case, I agree.
Nicole, I honestly recommend that you get some more counseling to help you deal with this issue. I don’t think you have truly processed what has happened to your family. Once you have, you will be able to lift your eyes to see that acknowledging the suffering and evil that happens to others in no way detracts from or denies the pain and suffering and evil that your sister endured.
I will pray for healing for you and your family.
ROFLMAO… I heart you too, my dear ones. I know I’ve been promising to get my blog back online for some time now (what was it a month ago Carla I said in a week? LOL… pregnant and moving and all this other nonsense and the days are FLYING by.)
I finally got my new header designed… go ahead over to http://mission4motherhood.blogspot.com/ if you want to see my goofy gaggle of offspring.
I’m hoping to import my blog posts sometime this week… but don’t hold your breath!!!
OH. I love your goofy gaggle!! They are too cute, Momma!! :)
Elisabeth, adorable kids!
And one more on the way! Wow you’ve got your hands full! I’ve got three crazy wonderful boys and I wouldn’t trade them for the world….well maybe for some chocolate but only for a minute….
“Planned Parenthood could fix this *if they wanted to*
Posted by: Hal at March 18, 2009 2:22 PM”
====================================
Now Hal, really now, why would PP want to turn away business?
They’re NOT in the business of helping people…they’re in the business of abortion.
Bobby, I also think that, while rape is sometimes just about sex, roofie-aided rape can also be about control on a macro level rather than just on an individual level. I don’t have any well-articulated thoughts on this. But I remember one news story that told of two waitresses who saw a guy slip his date roofies — TWICE, the second time after they took her drink away and brought her a new one. (They took the woman aside and told her what he was doing, when she went to the bathroom.) The kicker was that, according to the waitresses, the woman was acting totally into the guy — being flirty, holding his hand across the table, etc. While behavior and appearance don’t indicate consent, the woman certainly appeared to be enjoying herself on the date, and probably would have slept with the guy — if not that night, then sometime in the near future.
Why would a guy drug a woman in that situation? Even if he’s just putting on an act, to get her to sleep with him, it’s not like he *can’t* get laid without drugs. He just has to play the game, as gross as that attitude is. I think that some people are almost offended, probably on a subconscious level, by the effort they need to put into getting laid — treating the woman like she’s a person, listening to her when she’s talking, etc. They resent that they have to “play the game” at all, even if they’re winning it. I think that maybe some men react badly to the fact that the woman gets the “final say” in whether she has sex with him or not — and so even if her answer would have been yes, they still resent that she has the control and the power to say no. So they take it away from her.
I have known a lot of “popular” boys, who could and did have plenty of consensual sex, who still high-fived each other over the idea of drunk-beyond-consent women. I’m just speculating but there certainly seems to be a control/power aspect to it, because it’s not just men who can’t get laid without alcohol who I’ve seen behave this way.
The worst thing is that they are in a position where they could, and should, be a primary protector of young women…. if this happened at one clinic then maybe we could dismiss it, but it keeps happening again and again and again, state after state, clinic after clinic…
Talk about wolf in sheep’s clothing. Girls are at their MOST vulnerable and rather than do what is right, they do whatever they must to further their radical agenda.
Thanks, guys! I’m partial to them. (Even if Alison did steal my shirt for that picture! LOL)
I understand completely about the chocolate, Krystal. My vice this pregnancy has been chocolate and peanutbutter chunk ice cream. MMMmmmmmmm
When I was 15, I had an 18 yo boyfriend. We made out a few times. Was I raped/molested?
I bring up this point to suggest that the laws and details behind statutory rape are so varied, grey, and need to be debated/discussed. This is no way, of course, is the same conversation re: rape, sexual abuse, pedophilia, etc.
On a separate note…I’m torn about the PP situation. My immediate reaction is, they should report. Then I ask, are they supposed to report by law? I honestly don’t know. In my opinion, the patient could still have services, including abortion, while PP reports alleged abuse. They don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
Nicole, I am so very sorry about what happened to your sister. To Lauren, Elisabeth, Krystal and anyone else who has been the victim of rape or pedophilia, I am very sorry for your pain as well.
The psychological manipulation of a vulnerable individual is very, very real, and if a man preys on a minor who is not psychologically mature (and most minors aren’t, let’s face it) and sexually takes advantage of her, in my opinion it is rape.
This often happens in incestual situations as well. The young child or teen has been “groomed” for a period of time through inappropriate conversation, subtle touching, flattery (appropriate or slightly inappropriate), gifts, being made to feel “special,” etc. This is all a psychological manipulation which eventually leads to the act of being physically violated. Whether it is a family member or simply an adult male “friend,” the violation remains the same. The girl knows in her heart that something isn’t right, but she can’t quite put her finger on it. Only in hindsight does she often see how innocently the manipulation began.
My sister-in-law was the victim of such behavior.
In Arizona at least, yes, they MUST report or they are violating the law and should have their license revoked.
And most statutory rape laws allow for lesser charges or even no charges if the victim/perpetrator are within a certain age of each other. Arizona laws do not.
However, that is somewhat beside the point as (1)our discussion has centered around the obvious cases… and (2) LAF was careful to make sure that it wasn’t a close call… for that very reason, so PP couldn’t argue that point. They were presented with a 15 year old female, 27 year old male… there should have been not a moment’s hesitation.
Hi Danielle,
The laws on statutory rape are clear in every state although the age of consent from state to state varies. Yes, PP is to REPORT ANY suspected cases of statutory rape. If a 15 year old girl claims that she is pregnant by her 27 year old boyfriend, the law is clear and PP is acting like it is above the law in not reporting.
I am wondering if Lila has made a trip to your PP yet?
When I was 15, I had an 18 yo boyfriend. We made out a few times. Was I raped/molested?
Posted by: Danielle at March 18, 2009 3:19 PM
**************************************
I guess that would depend on where you live.
Also, I think this is an incredibly “surface” comparison to what we’re talking about here. If you were not violated or psychologically manipulated, you may not consider it to be statutory rape, but the law does. The law is meant to *protect* weaker parties from being preyed upon, i.e., minors.
Do you think a 15 year old in a relationship with a 25 year old is appropriate?
I’m 99.9% convinced due to things she has (and hasn’t) said that my mother was the victim of just that sort of gradual progessive incest by her father. There is absolutely no way of convincing her to even consider the idea that her father wasn’t perfect (an abusive, out of control alcoholic who ended up lobotomized in a mental institution in the early 70s).
I know that there were some things MY father did that I can honestly say were just normal family being around each other that neither of us ever thought twice about that my mom would freak out over. It wasn’t until I was an adult that everything started to click into place. But at 70 years old, I doubt she’ll start to deal with her denial at this point. (In addition, due to what this has caused in her personality, I no longer have contact with her, nor do Steve or the kids.)
By the way, in my post at 3:24 I most definitely believe that the predator can be an adult female as well.
I agree Kel, although in those cases PP wouldn’t be involved in such a way as they are in the reverse.
Making out with an 18 year old when your 15 can go either way. Rape is not a grey area. Rape laws are there to protect the victims, although the victims usually get treated like the criminals.
I’m not sorry for what has happened in my life time. How ever short it has been since I’m only 22 years old. I just thank the God above that I made it through and survived. I’m one of the lucky ones. . . .
I agree Kel, although in those cases PP wouldn’t be involved in such a way as they are in the reverse.
Posted by: Elisabeth at March 18, 2009 3:31 PM
********************************************
Of course, Elisabeth. :D
BTW, I am very sorry to hear about your mother. :(
I feel so badly for teenage girls who- they aren’t stupid, for the most part- become pregnant at fifteen. It’s not (usually) a matter of wanting to seem cool. It’s most often a matter of wanting to be wanted. Yes, she ought to be informed that she is making a rather foolish (okay, incredibly foolish) choice, and he ought to be punished. But to fight over calling this pedophelia or rape is kind of missing the point.
I am so sorry about your sister, Nicole. She is doing well, isn’t she?
“When will the government stop funding these pedophile protectors?”
Isn’t a pedophile someone who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children?????? Lila Rose hardly looks like a prepubecsent girl, and posing as a 15 year old she wouldn’t be. Just as someone going for an abortion wouldn’t be.
I’m not excusing anything. I’m just saying don’t call it something it isn’t.
Yes, technically it would probably be ephebophilia (preference for mid to late adolescents) or maybe hebephilia (preference for pubescent teens/tweens).
I think that perhaps we ought to get back to what is most important:
Why are they still funded by the government?
Perhaps arguing over whether or not they are pedophiles or rapists is doing no victim justice. Victims don’t quintessentially care what their attackers are called so long as it isn’t hero or anything remotely positive.
The bottom line is not whether or not Mrs. Stanek called them correctly, but whether or not it is still fair that this corporation still gets its way, still takes advantage over the poor, the non-Anglo, and the young, and whether or not it is right that they ought to be paid to do this by a government that, so long as it supports them, is racist and sexist.
This while the catholic church petitions to not extend the statute of limitations on molestation prosecution
YLT, if you’re referring to HB 6532, the issue is that the church is being singled out in the legislation. The statute isn’t being extended for any other institution, such as the school system, despite what we know about the rates of abuse among teachers.
This comes on the heels of last weeks attempt by the same legislature to introduce a bill that would strip parish priests and diocesan bishops of their control of their parishes. There is a movement afoot to silence and destroy the church. Therefore the Church is right to defend herself. If the statute needs to be extended, it should be extended for all institutions, not just one.
Blogosphere Buzz
Here’s some of the buzz from the blogosphere today. “Pedophile protecting Planned Parenthood caught again,” Jill Stanek, JillStanek.com Live Action Films released Video #4 in its Mona Lisa Project. “PC Police? Some Want St. Patrick’s Day to Be ‘Shamroc…
I am wondering if Lila has made a trip to your PP yet?
Posted by: Carla at March 18, 2009 3:27 PM
-No idea…
When I was 15, I had an 18 yo boyfriend. We made out a few times. Was I raped/molested?
**************************************
I guess that would depend on where you live.
Do you think a 15 year old in a relationship with a 25 year old is appropriate?
Posted by: Kel at March 18, 2009 3:28 PM
-That the answer is ‘that depends’ is underlining my point. Statutory rape laws were absolutely put in place to protect, however, these ‘grey lines’ as we say makes a big difference in terms of prosecution and vilification.
For the record, no, a 25/15 yo ‘relationship’ is beyond inappropriate and if my story had involved someone 25 vs. 18, I could’ve answered my own question.
Hi Danielle,
If there are more videos to come, which it sounds like there are, I was just wondering if they had been to yours.
Do you know if the PP where you volunteer reports cases of suspected statutory rape? You might not want to answer that though I suppose.
So, Danielle…how does it feel to know that the wonderful, humanitarian (sarcasm), “health care organization” that you so adoringly work for is once again busted for breaking the law and encouraging/advising young girls to lie about their circumstances and that they are covering up statutory rape? All to make a buck from killing a baby, and sending the young girl back to the same dangerous environment.
How can you honestly sleep at night KNOWING that the organization you work for is doing this ? Would you have the “cojones” to report a rape if a similar situation came your way while you were on duty? I doubt it. I’m sure they teach you people how to skirt the issue and make sure the co. makes it’s money off of another abortion.
Bottom line: Profit at ANY cost.
Sweet Dreams kiddo.
Here is a question I’ve always wondered about that. If rape is not about sex and is about violence and control, why do things like ruffies, GHB, and Spanish fly exist? These drugs that are designed to make the victim unconscious and hence an easy target for sex. If it was all about power and dominating someone, I would think that there wouldn’t be much of a feeling of power and domination in having sex with someone who can’t even fight back, who is just laying there unconscious. I don’t know. Am I way out in left field on this one?
Posted by: Bobby Bambino at March 18, 2009 2:21 PM
but if a person is drugged and out of it, isn’t the rapist in total control here?
Maybe some rapes are about violence/anger whereas others are more about control without the (active) violence component?
Why cant it be about sex AND control?
I think it is both.
well, I think it is Bethany, but many feminists insist that rape is NEVER about sex
Partly this was done because of the way rape was treated in the past i.e. there was blame placed on the woman
Bottom line: Profit at ANY cost.
Sweet Dreams kiddo.
Posted by: Mike at March 18, 2009 5:11 PM
Call me naive, but I don’t think it has anything to do with money. I believe the people doing this honestly believe young women would be reluctant to seek care if they reported these “boyfriends,” and that they think the girls deserve a safe haven where they can trust no confidences will be betrayed.
I don’t agree, but it’s not about the money.
I’m with you Hal.
“Safe havens” do not kill babies and return young girls to their abusers.
The word HONEST is laughable when describing anything about Planned Parenthood!!
Carla, I said this is what they believe (IMO). Don’t you think that the people who work at Planned Parenthood for the most part do so because they think they’re helping women? I understand you don’t think they’re helping women, but do you really question their motives?
Yes, I do believe that they THINK they are helping. I also think that many of them work there because they have aborted children themselves and seek to justify what they have done.
I think they are deceived and I am praying for more and more to leave the mills.
You might want to read Won by Love by Norma McCorvey the Roe of Roe V Wade. Or Lime 5.
Seriously. Why not educate yourself on what REALLY goes on in the abortion mills? They are a business. They sell abortions.
Sorry you asked, Hal?? :)
Do you know if the PP where you volunteer reports cases of suspected statutory rape? You might not want to answer that though I suppose.
Posted by: Carla at March 18, 2009 4:40 PM
-Why wouldn’t I want to answer that? I don’t have anything to hide. The honest answer is, I don’t know. The primary instance I could see this happening is during a counseling session, of which I am not a part of. Obviously, those are confidential sessions. They are the only staff members that a patient would have access to that would ask such personal, invasive questions. If that has ever happened between a patient and counselor at that clinic, I have no clue. I’ve also never had a conversation with a patient on my own that’s ever gone that in depth.
Again, as others have said, as sinister as you would like to believe the ‘agenda’ is, I really don’t think it’s that conspiratory. It’s really a matter of adherence to confidentially at all costs – and these are examples of when clinics need to think twice about the best interest of the patient. Also, the conclusion in some cases may still be the same.
How does it feel to know that the wonderful, humanitarian (sarcasm), “health care organization” that you so adoringly work for is once again busted for breaking the law and encouraging/advising young girls to lie about their circumstances and that they are covering up statutory rape? All to make a buck from killing a baby, and sending the young girl back to the same dangerous environment. How can you honestly sleep at night KNOWING that the organization you work for is doing this? Would you have the “cojones” to report a rape if a similar situation came your way while you were on duty? I doubt it. I’m sure they teach you people how to skirt the issue and make sure the co. makes it’s money off of another abortion. Bottom line: Profit at ANY cost.
Posted by: Mike at March 18, 2009 5:11 PM
-Oh, Mike…is the melodrama really necessary? I respect, appreciate and applaud the work that PP does, yes, including the abortion services they provide. My opinion on whether or not alleged abuse of underage patients is concealed (either purposely or not) does not negate this. I agree with a lot you, actually, that there needs to be strong language coming from the national wing of the organization, that specifies their regulations AND that denounces the prevalence of sexual abuse for any woman and their part in putting a stop to it. I also strongly agree that whether or not a girl/woman is abused, does not nullify her decision to abort and access to it.
I sleep soundly at night. I’m sure you do, too. Whether you choose to believe in the strength of my moral compass is of no relevance to me. If I came across a patient who, in passing, alerted me to something in her relationship that sounded like abuse, it would give me serious pause. I’d probably go to my volunteer coordinator and ask what to do.
Lastly, concerning profit, I’ve already addressed why I don’t think this is a profit-based issue and why, now being closer to the process, I suspect that the real ‘money’ is not actually in the abortions, but instead the everyday services.
How about they provide abortions for a fee, along with others health and reproductive services Carla?
The people of the abortion industry are rather obsessed with placing the mantle of “human rights activists” and, I’ve read from some places, “abolitionist” atop their heads. There is no doubt on my mind that what they feel that they are doing is “glorious” and “the work of royalty,” but that is due to the fact that they function on the principal that all people are created equal, but some are created more equal.
I have no problem with any pro-life feminist (as, in the original feminists who truly do believe in equality, something that Gloria Steinem and Co. seem to be lacking) and I have no problem with helping women. But the definition that the abortion industry feeds itself and the rest of humanity is that the “glorious task” is something that is good. Hal and Asitis, they do feel that they are doing a wonderful deed. The difference is that pro-life and pro-choice are defining their deeds differently.
They kill children for money.
Danielle,
If a pregnant 15 year old came in but didn’t want an abortion what would the counselors tell her?Yes, I know you don’t know. Humor me.
She is alone and scared but wants to keep her baby. How would you HELP and SUPPORT her CHOICE to let her baby live?
If a female is mature enough to consent to ‘elective surgery’, then isn’t she old enough to consent to sex?
If not then, how is the ‘counselor’ who facilitates the decision for the elective surgery or the ‘abortionist’ who performs the ‘elective surgery’ any less culpable than the adult male who had sex with the unemancipated minor female?
If the ‘rapist’ took advantage of her imaturity, then didn’t the counselor and the abortionist do the same thing.?
Technically speaking, there are different classifications of rape. ‘Insertion’ is not limited to a male body part, but can be any object. So if the abortionist ‘inserts’ any instrument in a minor girls priviate parts without her parents consent, how is that not statutory rape?
Just asking?
yor bro ken
Here’s the bottom line.
In Arizona, a 27 year old having sexual relations with a 15 year old is a felony.
PP is a mandatory reporter for such crimes.
They did not report, they attempted to teach the girls how to get around reporting.
That’s it. Bottom line, they broke the law. It doesn’t matter if you’re prolife or prochoice. It doesn’t matter if you think the mandatory reporting law is going to cause issues. It doesn’t matter if you think that statutory rape laws shouldn’t exist. It doesn’t matter what anyone’s personal opinion is on any aspect of this matter.
The law requires PP to report such incidents, they broke the law. End of story.
If a pregnant 15 year old came in but didn’t want an abortion what would the counselors tell her?Yes, I know you don’t know. Humor me.
She is alone and scared but wants to keep her baby. How would you HELP and SUPPORT her CHOICE to let her baby live?
Posted by: Carla at March 18, 2009 7:01 PM
-If I WAS a counselor, my first question (to myself) would be, why is she in here if she doesn’t want an abortion? Then, I would suggest to her that she shouldn’t have an abortion. I’d ask if she’s shared this news and concern with family, guardians or friends. I’d remind her that she had the choice to put her baby up for adoption. If she is thinking of keeping it I would ask if she has a plan in place on how she’ll do this. Finally, if there were social services that I could put her in contact with, I would do that.
Elizabeth,
That is not the end of the story. There is a part of the statutory rape law that has not been clarified yet.
This is important. You have some knowledge and experince. You have been around court procedings that dealt with sex crimes.
You don’t have to actually have sex to commit the crime of rape.
I just wonder what would happen if a fair minded prosecutor thought the minor girl had been just as violated by the surgical procedure as the rape that resulted in the pregnancy.
It would make a good episode of ‘Law and Order: SVU.
yor bro ken
Some women and young girls think that PP is about “helping.” Maybe it’s that whole “reproductive health care” bit. Doesn’t matter how she landed at a PP not wanting an abortion. She’s there. She’s young. She’s vulnerable. She needs help.
Danielle,
I would do the same. Except that I will be at a pregnancy care center.
Ken, interesting I suppose, but I think there would be more of a true case for what they actually did…. failure to report.
Honestly, let’s get them for what is a clearcut violation of the law before we worry about expanding philosophy.
They need to follow the law. They are violating the law. If we focus on anything beyond that we will be ineffectual at protecting these girls from their predators.
How does PP benefit financially from a referral for a adoption?
Adoption does nothing to limit population growth or sexually transmitted diseases.
Adoption does not sympathize with the PP mission statement.
The preferred choice is not a choice for a live baby, but a dead one. That is where the money and the political power resides.
yor bro ken
I would do the same. Except that I will be at a pregnancy care center.
Posted by: Carla at March 18, 2009 7:31 PM
-It’s obvious to me that for many on both sides of this issue, their agenda is similar. What’s also obvious is that we will never come to the same conclusion as to how that agenda can be carried out.
You advocate killing babies and harming women.
I do not.
Some women and young girls think that PP is about “helping.” Maybe it’s that whole “reproductive health care” bit. Doesn’t matter how she landed at a PP not wanting an abortion.
Posted by: Carla at March 18, 2009 7:31 PM
Doesn’t PP offer prenatal care and help for those planning to keep their baby or put up for adoption as well? Isn’t that how she might have landed at a PP?
A confidential survey conducted by PPFA in 1986 found widespread ignorance and confusion at it’s affiliates concerning adoption.
Thirty five percent of PP affiliates ‘OPPOSED’ offering adoption services because adoption is inconsistent with the goals and practices of PP. Only 20% percent expressed high enthusiasm for including adoption as part of PP’s mission statement.
So any current and former PP counselors out there: how many pregnant women have you ever referred for adoption?
What would you estimate are the percentages of pregnant women you referred for adoption as contrasted with referrals for abortion?
I like the concept of charging counselors and abortionists with statutory rape before, during and after the fact.
Poetic justice.
yor bro ken
asitis, most PP that I’ve run across don’t offer prenatal care beyond pregnancy tests and abortions. The ones I’ve been to only have pamplets on abortion, birth control and how to get the state to pay for your services there.
PP does NOT offer prenatal care!! They don’t offer postnatal care either!! If you don’t want an abortion it’s buh-bye….good luck…come back if you change your mind and want us to kill your baby for you.
Danielle: BALONEY.
IF you were a conselor and you did what you said, that would be your LAST day as a counselor at PP.
They’d throw you out the back door along with the dead baies they abort. You’d be out of there so fast it would make your head spin.
PP is in the businerss of SELLING ABORTIONS. It’s their big ticket item and we all know it.
You can attempt to find some underlying good in PP (but it would take you a lifetime) because their entire agenda is the promotion of sex, sex, sex,…for youth of any age, lying about the consequences of it, lying about fetal development, as well as circumventing the laws, undermining parental teaching and authority, promoting the idea that a child can get invasive dangerous surgery w/o parental consent and it’s all just hunky dory, dispensing birth control to minors, faulty condoms, exploiting the innocence of youth, and all the while carrying out the genocide philosophy of it’s beloved founder…and making enormous profits from all of it…PAID FOR by the citizens of this country.
Yup. That’s one swell, benevolent outfit you volunteer for. No, this isn’t “melodrama”. It’s called T R U T H.
You’ve taken their bait hook, line and sinker.
My hypothetical 15 year old girl may have stumbled across PP wanting “help.”
I have friends that were pregnant and thought that PP could help them with prenatal stuff(they were young and wanted to keep their babies)and were horrified that they ended up there.
You advocate killing babies and harming women. I do not.
Posted by: Carla at March 18, 2009 7:50 PM
-Ok, Carla. Whatever. Guess the pleasantries were nice while they lasted.
In reply to the question, “Should adoption be part of PP’s mission?”, some typical responses included:
‘No, it would present an apparent and possibly actual conflict of interest. Difficult to finance. Very draining on staff time and overall effort.’
[This next comment is very revealing as to how PP really views ‘choice’]
‘Only as a referral. It might be very confusing to maintain a pro-choice stance when an agencey is actually invested in finding an infant to place.’
[Obviously in PP’s perspective the decision to kill the pre-natal infant is the only ‘choice’ they are ‘invested’ in.]
‘A pregnant 15 year old should not be seen as the “solution” to an infertile couples problems. We need to be very careful not to cast women in the role of “baby producers” as if there were no effect on them if they place their infant for adoption….”
“If Title X dollars are going to be used for adoption, I think we should position ourselves to use them.”
—————————————————
“Nonprofit does not mean unprofitable or charitable. Nonprofit merely means that dividends cannot be [‘legally’] paid to owners. Nonprofits like PP are often very profitable.”
Follow the money, children, follow the money.
yor bro ken
PP does NOT offer prenatal care!! They don’t offer postnatal care either!! If you don’t want an abortion it’s buh-bye….good luck…come back if you change your mind
Posted by: Carla at March 18, 2009 8:06 PM
Really? Do they provide referrals to clinics that do? What about adoption?
So…you don’t advocate killing babies and harming women?
I am brutally honest. And can also be pleasant.(while I am being brutally honest)
I am sincere, Danielle when I say that there must be some pay off for you in volunteering there and I am just trying to get to the bottom of it I guess. At the same time trying to get to know you a little better.
For what it’s worth…I enjoy talking with you.
Danielle, I’m suprised your putting up such a HUGE fight on this subject on PP.
I guess your stronger than those babies they like to kill there.
Tell me, do you have to count the ‘conception tissue’ after a D&C?
Danielle: BALONEY.
IF you were a conselor and you did what you said, that would be your LAST day as a counselor at PP. They’d throw you out the back door along with the dead baies they abort. You’d be out of there so fast it would make your head spin. PP is in the businerss of SELLING ABORTIONS. It’s their big ticket item and we all know it.
Posted by: Mike at March 18, 2009 8:10 PM
-Oh well. Sorry that we won’t see eye to eye on it. You sound pretty upset. Maybe that’s why you just threw about every stereotypical anti-PP, anti-BC accusation all into one post.
Will I bother going round and round with you about it? Nope. Do you care? Nope. Will you be able to walk away and feel vindicated that you blew off some steam? Probs. That’s cool.
asitis,
I can’t find the statistic at the moment but of the hundreds of thousands of abortions(or millions?) that PP did last year they did maybe 2,000 adoption referrals. Which was down from the previous year.
They do abortions. That is what they do. Abortions.
I would like to go to PP and pretend I am pregnant and don’t want an abortion.
Undercover…..hmmmm….I should get in touch with Lila!!!
and want us to kill your baby for you.
asitis,
you left that part out when you copied and commented back to me. wonder why.
“Out of 6000 PP clinic visit records surveyed, including 724 records for clients who received pregnancy tests , there were only three referrals for adoption. Only one clien who received problem counseling was referred for adoption. Abortions and abortion referrals outnumberd adoptions more than fifty to one.”
There is no money for PP in referrals for adoption, at least no government funds.
yor bro ken
Danielle, I’m suprised your putting up such a HUGE fight on this subject on PP. I guess your stronger than those babies they like to kill there. Tell me, do you have to count the ‘conception tissue’ after a D&C?
Posted by: AK Krystal at March 18, 2009 8:15 PM
-Wow, I’m putting up a ‘HUGE’ fight? That’s odd, I guess I didn’t come to the same conclusion, especially seeing as how this thread was good and fired up long before I left my first comment, which was ambiguous on the topic to say the least. The remainder of my responses have been to those who have directed specifically at me…but, ok.
BTW, yes, I’m a very strong girl. You would have to be to stick around here! And no, to answer your question, I don’t have to clean up in the procedure rooms.
I was just wondering if ya did.
I remember holding my friends hand at a PP while she had her abortion….I was 14 years old….had no clue what was going on…then I got a breif glimps of a what they called conception tissue….my friend was 15 weeks pregnant….it was horrible.
Maybe you should try holding one of those scared girls hands sometime, you just *might* get a good look at what your ‘helping’ these girls do.
Carla,
I am typing as fast as I can, but I can’t seem to get you the data before you ask for it or even after you ask.
Ask God to help me type more proficiently or ask Him to send some one else with the data.
yor bro ken
Your just fighting for what PP wants the general public to think of them, Danielle.
Interesting figures you’re providing, Ken. Care to share your data source?
Eisenhower forced the Germans citizens who lived in proximity to the Nazi death camps to tour the facilities after they were liberated so they would not ever be able to say honestly, “I did not know.”
Everybody likes sausage, but few people really want to know how it’s made.
yor bro ken
They do abortions. That is what they do. Abortions.
Posted by: Carla at March 18, 2009 8:17 PM
Don’t they do anything else? No other services for women?
and want us to kill your baby for you.
asitis,
you left that part out when you copied and commented back to me. wonder why.
Posted by: Carla at March 18, 2009 8:21 PM
this is the point where YOU tell asitis WHAT she was thinking Carla!!!
You don’t have to clean up in the prodedure rooms…YET. That day will no doubt come.
When it does, be sure to tell us how you feel when you see your first fetus, chopped up into bloody pieces in a bowl, or possibly even INTACT and trying desperately to survive.
Hopefully, that stark realization will change your mind about your job.
So…you don’t advocate killing babies and harming women?
Posted by: Carla at March 18, 2009 8:15 PM
-No, Carla, and you know that. It was an inflammatory, rhetorical response, like if I had boiled down the cliches of being active in the PL side into a crass, inflammatory generalization. I gave you a throw-away response because…for reasons I just gave.
And I enjoy speaking with you as well. I too am brutally honest. Key word, honest. I try hard to stay above the fray as a PC visitor to a PL site. You ask me a direct question that both of us know isn’t BS created for incitement or out of anger, and you’re going to get an honest answer back. I’m open about my experiences volunteering at a PP clinic. I’ll give you the good and the bad. I’m not here for propaganda’s sake.
And (not necessarily directed just at Carla), PP, and other clinics, are not adoption agencies. They are not social services. They are not obstetricians. They provide specific services as they pertain to women’s sexual health and this includes abortions. It was never designed to be more than this. Their involvement and services in other areas would therefore, be limited, so I’m not sure why this is being highlighted as some sort of deception.
I remember holding my friends hand at a PP while she had her abortion….
Posted by: AK Krystal at March 18, 2009 8:27 PM
-Really? Times have obviously changed since then, given that absolutely no one except the patient is allowed beyond the lobby doors.
Your just fighting for what PP wants the general public to think of them, Danielle.
Posted by: AK Krystal at March 18, 2009 8:30 PM
-Maybe because I believe the same.
Fedup,
Aborting Planned Parenthood by Robert Ruff
Statistical analysis of 6,000 clinic visit records from PP affiliates in Southest Texas.
Dumpster diving pays off some time.
I just tried to call Mr. Ruff. He used to live close by in the DFW metroplex. The phone number I have is not current.
PP is not primarily about birth control, they are primarily about population control. That is why they support the ‘one child’ policy of communist China. That’s why they promote behavior that is likely to result in contracting a sexually transmitted disease. They hope this only will produce infertillity in their ‘clients’.
These misguided drones see ‘other people’ as a threat to their quality of life and the future of the planet. They have no ‘hope’ beyond themselves so they are determined to save mother earth from the people who inhabit the planet.
Man made global warming is their latest scare tactic. They are arrogant selflserving elitist. They have no ‘compassion’ as you understand the word.
yor bro ken
during 2004-2005 PP had approx 1500 adoption referrals for a ratio of 1 adoption per 180 abortions
during the 2006-2007 year PP 11,058 clients for prenatal care which is a 20% decline from the 2005-2006 year in which there were 13,261 clients for prenatal care.
They do abortions. That is what they do. Abortions.
Posted by: Carla at March 18, 2009 8:17 PM
Don’t they do anything else? No other services for women?
Posted by: asitis at March 18, 2009 8:36 PM
Carla, I just checked the PPFA website, and according to their annual reports, abortions account for 3% of their services.
Listen- being fifteen is difficult but it’s still far too short an age. It passes so quickly.
I can say, honestly, that neither I nor my friends would ever date a man twelve years older than us if it weren’t for something deeply stirring inside, that need to be wanted (not that any of us are dating an adult, but I do happen to see sixteen-year-old procreating in front of my locker every single day). There is something about being fifteen that makes you want to be young, to feel what it’s like to be free. This is not something to be exchanged for an abortion. And this is not something, despite the drama and the pain that comes from being fifteen (and pleading with hormonal adolescents to get away from my locker), to be taken away from a child because of the mother’s age.
Arguing that fifteen-year-olds can and can’t do this- maybe we should stop with the fighting and get children’s lives back into the picture. Trust me, I AM fifteen. This is not the hypothetical adolescent- this is the actual adolescent.
No more abortion!
You don’t have to clean up in the prodedure rooms…YET. That day will no doubt come. When it does, be sure to tell us how you feel when you see your first fetus, chopped up into bloody pieces in a bowl, or possibly even INTACT and trying desperately to survive. Hopefully, that stark realization will change your mind about your job.
Posted by: Mike at March 18, 2009 8:38 PM
-It wouldn’t happen, because you have to be a licensed LPN or RN to be in the procedure room. I have my own career and go on a volunteer basis when time allows.
And to your next point…if I was presented with a dead fetus, who knows how I’d feel? Probably a little sad and a little grossed out. I’ve seen plenty on film, heard some pretty uncomfortable stories from my doctor friends. It wouldn’t be a walk in the park, but am I convinced this would make me renounce abortion? Unlikely.
In the sake of honesty and objectivity: I don’t think it is a perfect system. I’ve seen and experienced enough to know that as much as I support the existence of PP and others, if it were me or my friend, I’d rather go to my own doctor or a private hospital.
There is nothing gentle or pleasant about dismemberment, vivisection, or dying slowly while your skin burned by chemicals.
There is no ‘gentle balance’ between killing those you do not want and saving those whom you deem worthy.
yor bro ken
So just throw the 15 year old girl to the wolves. Sink or swim little sister. You made your bed, now sleep in it.
This is how they understand ‘compassion’.
yor bro ken
-Really? Times have obviously changed since then, given that absolutely no one except the patient is allowed beyond the lobby doors.
Posted by: Danielle at March 18, 2009 8:43 PM
Yup times have changed since then, also this was in Portland, Oregon downtown PP clinic BTW. They let me go back there because she had her drugs given to her that mourning and was freaking out and wanted out of the abortion. They told she would have to call her parents to come pick her up, well that scared the hell out of her so she asked the DR if it would be ok to have me go back there with her. He said yes. .
These new feministas have a new motto, Every girl for herself, adult women first, babies need not apply.
yor bro ken
From the 2006-2007 PP Report: (the first figure is 06/07 the second figure is from the year 05/06
Abortion Procedures 289,750 264,943
Contraception, Women 2,441,768 2.420,610
Contraception, Men 95,188 80,411
Emergency Contraception Kits 1,436,846 1,240,516
Male Sterlizations 2,913 2,407
Female Sterilizations 618 554
Infertility 316 248
Colposcopy Procedures 47,557 44,353
Cryotherapy Procedures 3,368 3,566
HIV testing, Women 203,478 188,424
HIV testing, Men 67,795 62,300
HIV testing, Gender not reported 42,887 29,865
Primary Care 19,557 21,739
Midlife clients 11,206 14,163
Breast Exams/Breast Care 882,961 842,399
Pregnancy Tests 1,097,397 1,045,892
LOOP/LEEP Procedures 3,036 2,836
STI [sic] Procedures, Women & Men 2,703,917 2,618,477
Other Services, Women 70,484* 63,176*
Other Services, Men 70,484* 63,176*
Total Unduplicated Clients 3,140,540 3,061,364
THANK YOU, Ken. I’ll check it out.
Ms. Danielle, no offense, but there are not very clinics- I’m sure- that care if you’re an actual doctor or not. You probably don’t need to be an LPN or RN before you can do anything in a clinic. Very few of the personnel there are doctors, anyway.
Hey, thanks “Angel”!
Anyone wanting more detail, including the service percentages, here’s the link to the 2007 Annual Report showing those figures Angel provided.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/AR_2007_vFinal.pdf
Oh and let me point out that I have a friend in Anchorage abort her 14 week old baby because she got breat cancer during the pregnancy. She later found she COULD have kept the baby but her MD told her to just abort it so she wouldn’t have to worry about it.
Well her husband fly back from Iraq to be here for the abortion, he was in the room and he asked to see the baby. He asked if he could have her cleaned up so they could see her better, well he was told no, he was also told that they couldn’t get the baby buried since the fetus wasn’t 24 weeks along.
This was in Anchorage PP
according to my math and my stats from their 2006/07 Annual report, abortions are 9.28 % of their services. However, this is a somewhat skewed picture really when you consider that they dispense 1,436,846 emergency contraception kits.\
Clearly their mandate is to destroy unborn babies. Perhaps the shift is from surgical to chemical abortion.
I apologize for the format issues the numbers were not that close in the comment box.
Jasper, just got a whole bunch of tears in my eyes seeing that picture. No doubt in my mind that the baby could have lived. I’d bet this DR who did this abortion was proud of his work that day. . .
That picture makes me violently ill…
Posted by: asitis at March 18, 2009 8:51 PM
“Carla, I just checked the PPFA website, and according to their annual reports, abortions account for 3% of their services.”
—————————————————-
Zealots are compeltely unreliable as sources of empirical data.
Define services and 3% of what: dollars billed, dollars received, ‘clients’ seen?
But why should take at face value the word of an organization that exists to kill. Lying, stealing and murder go hand in hand.
I have never read of an honest mass murder or ethical serial killer.
yor bro ken
I believe it’s 3% of client visits ken.
asitis your figures are from 2005, mine are from 2006/07 and they show a 6% increase which is what is the reported increase in the media sources I’ve seen.
Correction ken. I should have written 3% of services provided, not client visits.
Ken: my number is 289,750 abortions per 3,140,540 clients. This is 9 per cent.
It is that small percentage of services that makes the biggest profits for PP.
Vannah is right. Due to the fact that the abortion industry is UNREGULATED they get away with having anyone they please assist in or perform the killings (and the maiming).
Lovely, isn’t it?
“In the sake of honesty and objectivity: I don’t think it is a perfect system. I’ve seen and experienced enough to know that as much as I support the existence of PP and others, if it were me or my friend, I’d rather go to my own doctor or a private hospital.”
That is a revealing statement.
asitis,
lets say abortion is only .001 % of what PP does, but they still do 250,000 abortions per year.
The percentage doesn’t mean much does it..
Eileen according to my source:
clinic income, government grants and contracts, and private contributions are about 1/3 each.
PP’s clinic income was about $356.9 Million in 2006/07
I didn’t mean to shock anybody by the abortion image. I just believe it’s good every once in a while to see what exactly were talking about…
asitis your figures are from 2005, mine are from 2006/07 and they show a 6% increase which is what is the reported increase in the media sources I’ve seen.
Posted by: angel at March 18, 2009 9:13 PM
The 3% figure is from the 2006 calendar year in the 2007 PPFA Annual Report.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/AR_2007_vFinal.pdf
So this is really random:
The quote of the day is “Think about what could be done with that money…”
And how much does Planned Parenthood unjustly receive every year? Wow, think about what that money could be used for. Education, HIV/AIDS research, actual pro-choice programs, hospitals, hunger, global warming…but Planned Parenthood is important, more important, than the poor, right?
Revealing, indeed. Not the best advertisement from one who thinks so highly of PP now is it?
Good enough for others, but not for HER.
Hmmmm….somethings wrong here.
DUH !
asitis,
lets say abortion is only .001 % of what PP does, but they still do 250,000 abortions per year.
The percentage doesn’t mean much does it..
Posted by: Jasper at March 18, 2009 9:18 PM
It does if you are considering what else they offer. If you don’t care about that, then sure, it wouldn’t mean much to you….
It is that small percentage of services that makes the biggest profits for PP.
Posted by: Eileen at March 18, 2009 9:16 PM
Eileen according to my source:
clinic income, government grants and contracts, and private contributions are about 1/3 each.
PP’s clinic income was about $356.9 Million in 2006/07
Posted by: angel at March 18, 2009 9:20 PM
Okay…. but Eileen was saying something about what the 3% of services (abortion) means in terms of total profit for PP. So clinic income accounts for 1/3 of total income. What percentage of the profit? How much of this profit comes from abortions.
I’ll see if I can find anything…………
Revealing, indeed. Not the best advertisement from one who thinks so highly of PP now is it? Good enough for others, but not for HER.
Hmmmm….somethings wrong here.
Posted by: Mike at March 18, 2009 9:22 PM
-Not because I’m better than, Mike, but because I have better access. It’s the same way I look at the state of any clinic that supports low income women/families. They make due, but it could be better. And I’m grateful to have access to ‘better’. And I will push to make their access ‘better’ as well.
PP’s profit in 2006 was 114.8 Million which quite frankly I find very very hard to believe.
especially when they made $1,017 BILLION
it would be most interesting to do an audit of this organization…
They can make at least one hundred fourteen million dollars a year? What the?! They pull down that much money when there are businesses run by families where that is all that they have and that has always been their passion and now they are shut down. There are poor starving in the streets around the world, there are children who give up on having dreams because they live in the poverty state of mind, and there are those who do something worthwhile- unlike the employees of Planned Parenthood- and they get nothing. Why on earth is Planned Parenthood so glorified? Why are they getting funds?!?!
Well if their spreadsheets are accurate, without government assistance they would not stay afloat. This has always been the situation for PP and this is why it has always been a prolife strategy (although unsuccessful) to attempt to cut off the government lifeline.
Without governmnet assistance they would have to charge more for their services, or drop ones that they couldn’t sustain.
I really do not care if the number is 3% or 30%. It is just a meaningless number provided by an organization that has no moral compass. They lie, they steal, they murder.
They exist to reduce the number of humans on this planet. Abortion is much more efficient method than war or famine. Material objects and the environment are not visably scarred as a result of an abortion.
Papa Joe Stalin introduced agrarian reform that resulted direclty in the death by starvation of tens of million of Russians. They were viewed as expendable. Stalin was a marxist humanist. PBHO is ‘christian humanist’. The emphasis is on ‘humanist’.
If there is no ‘god’, then there is no limit to the depths of depravity that men/women will go to control other people.
Why do you think the liberal humanist war against religion so vigorously?
They hate the idea that they are accountable to someone greater than themselves.
They hate the idea that people like you and me acknowledge there is a god and we are ultimately accountable to him, not them, and as such we will choose obedience to him over them.
They seek to destroy religion in general and christianity in particular, but they cannot.
But they do destroy everything else: Speech, assembly, self defense, liberty, conscience, property rights, life.
What they cannot seem to see is that they are creating the engine of their own destruction
It is all about manipulation and control. The feministas are so caught up in with their own agenda they do not realize the ‘man’ is still controlling their lives. They are blissfully and miserably unaware of the pettiness of their puppet lives.
The ‘sensitive beta males’ are just a bunch of self made geldings. They are no less deluded.
I used to think and speak and act just like them. But thankfully I am no longer of their household. I now have a better name, a better inheritance and a better promise.
yor bro ken
“Think about what the state could do with that money”
—————————————————
Here’s a novel idea: Just think what the citizens could have done with their own money if it had not been confiscated from them by the state and redistributed in the most inefficient ways imaginable to organizations that prosper more when they fail than they do when they succeed?
yor bro ken
according to my math and my stats from their 2006/07 Annual report, abortions are 9.28 % of their services.
Posted by: angel at March 18, 2009 9:08 PM
Angel, I found the source of your error. You calculated abortion as a percentage of the client visits, not the services provided. That total appears to be missing from wherever you got this version of the table. But if you go to the link I gave you will see it’s 10,575,443 for 2006.
That puts abortion at 3%, not 9% of their services.
Vannah: PP is getting funds because we have become a society that accepts every form of moral depravity, is accepting of children having sex, is accepting of quick fixes for everything regardless of the long term effects, and pretty much makes no one accountable for their actions and choices. The states would rather pay to have babies killed before they are born so they don’t become a burden to the finances of the state.
We have devalued human life to the level of garbage: disposable at any stage of development and not worthy of protection based on wantedness.
It’s all just part of the enormous “if it feels good, do it” mentality. No consequences, no responsibility.
“Don’t educate kids about the responsibility of sex. They’re going to do it anyway. If a baby results, we’ll just kill it before it’s born. Protect the pedophile, abort the baby and move on to the next case. Don’t tell the kids parents.”
And we accept this. Our president accepts this.
Meanwhile, PP rakes in billions of OUR money.
sorry, that should read “clients” not “client visits”.
But, if it is our money going into abortion providers, should we not have a say what happens with it? Should we not be allowed to tell the government that they may not give our tax dollars to Planned Parenthood- yes, I know that they don’t pay for abortions, but since they receive our tax dollars than should the people not reserve the right to get involved? After all, if we foot the bill, then the argument of “stay out of my life” is moot is it not? I am all for privacy, but this is ridiculous…
Yeah…like PP actually HONESTLY accounts for the money or accurately reports where it goes. Right. Ever heard of multiple sets of books?
Meanwhile, PP rakes in billions of OUR money.
And uses it to further their political agenda.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.php?cmte=C00314617&cycle=2008
Follow the money children, but do not get sidetracked by the money.
The money is not the issue. The money leads you to the power brokers. Money is just a tool that the power brokers use to manipulate the systems.
It is about control.
Are you controlled by the systems of this world or are you self controlled?
Are you self controlled or self willed?
You have been set free to obey, out of love, not out of fear.
Fear is the beginning of wisdom, but love is the destination.
Do you walk according to the Spirit or do you walk according to the flesh?
If you walk according to the Spirit, you will not do the deeds of the flesh.
Which ‘fruits’ do you bear in due season?
yor bro ken
PP’s profit in 2006 was 114.8 Million which quite frankly I find very very hard to believe.
Posted by: angel at March 18, 2009 9:35 PM
Probably because they didn’t. Note that the expenses do not include capital expenditures.
That puts abortion at 3%, not 9% of their services.
Posted by: asitis at March 18, 2009 10:11 PM
I’m not stupid asitis: I think at the very least I know how to calculate a percent! lol
my figure is 9 percent of clients have abortions – that is what I thought we were talking about. Client services is stuffed with many meaningless procedures.
People go to PP for abortions and contraception. If you take the total number of emerg contraception and abortions together the percentage is about 55%.
If you look at their services which offer death to the baby – this is what their primary client service is – abortion and chemical abortions.
And they wouldn’t have to stop offering certain procedures or raise costs – they simply wouldn’t be able to operate.
my figure is 9 percent of clients have abortions – that is what I thought we were talking about. Client services is stuffed with many meaningless procedures.
Posted by: angel at March 19, 2009 7:12 AM
Then you should have said “9% of clients”. You said “9.28% of their services”.
It’s 3% of their services.
And BTW can you please point out which of their client services are “meaningless”.
The majority of $$$$$ is made by abortions. PP does abortions and all of the other meaningless, fluffy, prom party packs and colorful condoms are meant to LURE IN CLIENTS. It is a nice happy helpful storefront for the killing of babies.
Those that work in PP are trained to “sell abortions.” It is their job.
Carla, I did find a figure of roughly 25% for the percentage of “profit” that comes from abortions. And that was from a pro-life website. I’ll go see if I can find it again. It was the only one I did find.
I’m looking at the list of services that make up the other 97% of services provided and I’m not seeing a whole lot of “meaninglessness”
I would like to go to PP and pretend I am pregnant and don’t want an abortion.
Carla, that is an awesome idea. I think someone should DEFINITELY try that.
KBHVAC, you have made some awesome posts, particularly your posts at 8:47, and 9:49.
Yes, someone should do that Carla/Bethany! Has Lila Rose?
Carla @ 7:42 AM — exactly!
Bethany @ 8:04 AM — I agree!
Maybe I could start with phone calls?? ha Also,
telling them I am 11 weeks along and asking if it’s a baby. Would be revealing I am sure. Hey, let’s do a group project!! :)
I know I will be back at the clinic where my daughter Aubrey died one day. Amazing grace to tell one girl my story and have her change her mind and keep her baby….:)
PP is insidious to the core, asitis. They kill babies and harm women for profit. Everything else is made to “pretty it up” and make it easier for people LIKE YOU to swallow.
PP is insidious to the core, asitis. They kill babies and harm women for profit. Everything else is made to “pretty it up” and make it easier for people LIKE YOU to swallow.
Posted by: Carla at March 19, 2009 8:38 AM
Carla, I remember I am pro-choice. And I am on the Pill. I don’t need window dressing on PP.
You keep saying that aside from abortion, everything else they do is meaningless. I don’t see anything meaningless in the services they provide. And at 97% they are more than window dressing.
One more time. Slower.
They!kill!babies!and!harm!women!for!profit!
You are fine with that.
I am not.
But of course you want to argue facts and figures and stats and profit and what the word meaningless means to you and I.
How many babies died while I was typing this??!!
Carla what is really interesting is that in 1997 PP did 9,381 adoption referrals. The following year, that number was down to 4,892! This number subsequently dropped by a significant amount in 1999 to 2999.
The popularity of emerg. contraception rose during those years from 39,000 in 1997 to 458,000 in 2001.
analysis of PP’s figures shows that the number of abortions they perform increases with each year.
The only reason that PP can make a profit (which they have done since 1987) is through heavy subsidies from taxpayers.
Are you prepared my dear angel to argue until the cows come home about that with asitis?? :)
PP most certainly needs a bailout!!
“I know I will be back at the clinic where my daughter Aubrey died one day. Amazing grace to tell one girl my story and have her change her mind and keep her baby….:)”
Just make sure you have LOTS of prayer support! We will be there with you in prayer if you allow us. God bless you!
Asitis, Ted Bundy was a charming man most of the time, and he helped others. Only a very small portion of his life was dedicated to killing women.
You keep saying that aside from abortion, everything else they do is meaningless. I don’t see anything meaningless in the services they provide. And at 97% they are more than window dressing.
Posted by: asitis at March 19, 2009 8:46 AM
the fact is that if you count their abortion services AND their emerg. contraception kits together, the bottom line is PP is in the baby killling business.
All the other “stuff” really is just window dressing in an attempt to make them look like a legitimate women’s health service.
They are in the business of preventing babies and killing those who slip through the contraceptive “net”.
Thank you, angel. All part of the journey of abortion recovery. I actually looked online at the website where I went. Where she died. I got sick to my stomach just reading about “high quality patient care” and “comfort measures” and the “commitment of professionals.”
Contrast that to what really happened while I was there…it is sick and sad.
The only reason that PP can make a profit (which they have done since 1987) is through heavy subsidies from taxpayers.
Posted by: angel at March 19, 2009 8:51 AM
They are a non-profit “Angel”. What about capital expenses?
@Bethany: you have a nice way of putting things into perspective!
Asitis, Ted Bundy was a charming man most of the time, and he helped others. Only a very small portion of his life was dedicated to killing women.
Posted by: Bethany at March 19, 2009 8:58 AM
Well, maybe people who find what he did acceptable won’t have a problem with that. But they are few and far between, I would imagine.
How do you record a phone conversation? And what are the legalities of doing that?
I’d be willing to call PP’s with the situation Carla mentioned. I don’t have any in my area to actually visit myself, but I could certainly call as many as possible. My voice sounds young on the phone, I’m told. I frequently have people ask me, “Can I please speak to your mommy?” lol
Well, maybe people who find what he did acceptable won’t have a problem with that. But they are few and far between, I would imagine.
I didn’t say that it was acceptable for him to kill women. I just said that was a minuscule part of his life, therefore the good that he did in his lifetime must have canceled out the bad. You should agree with me, Asitis.
Thanks, Angel! :)
@ Bethany
Are you for real? Do you really place such little value on the lives of the innocent women Ted Bundy tortured and killed?
Carla: that will be something to prayerfully consider down the road.
But you know you will have “legions” of prayer warriors standing with you, should you take that route!
Have other women done this sort of thing, Carla?
Kate, I understand that you think that what Ted Bundy chose to do in his lifetime was wrong, but you have to remember it was only a very small percentage of his lifetime. The rest of his life he was a wonderful man, who did good things for people. Why judge him for the 10 percent of his life he chose to do things you don’t like?
(in case you’re truly confused, this is satire).
What a wonderful gift, Carla. I hope that the woman you speak with will change her heart and choose life for her child.
What sort of thing, angel?
Bethany,
Let’s do some research. I used to call places that had a storefront sign that was vague. Like Women’s Health Care etc. I would call and tell them I needed an abortion and was always glad to hear they didn’t do them there.
the fact is that if you count their abortion services AND their emerg. contraception kits together, the bottom line is PP is in the baby killling business.
All the other “stuff” really is just window dressing in an attempt to make them look like a legitimate women’s health service.
They are in the business of preventing babies and killing those who slip through the contraceptive “net”.
Posted by: angel at March 19, 2009 8:58 AM
So at most (some of the clients could be receiving these services more than once in the year) 55% of their clients receive Emergency contraception of abortion.
That still leaves at least 45% of their clients not receiving either, and only receiving the other services.
These “other services” account for 97% of the services provided. Window dressing?????
I would say they are “in the business” (as much as a non-profit can be) of preventing unwanted pregnancy and providing reproductive and women’s health services. For the 9% of their clients that face an unwanted pregnancy due to no birth control or failed birth control (user error or method error) and want to have an abortion they provide that.
Carla, I think we should definitely do that. :)
Gotta go grocery shopping!! I will check in later and hope for nothing less than more numbers from you asitis. I know you won’t disappoint me.
Carla, LMBO, so true.
I’ll talk to you later!
Well, maybe people who find what he did acceptable won’t have a problem with that. But they are few and far between, I would imagine.
I didn’t say that it was acceptable for him to kill women. I just said that was a minuscule part of his life, therefore the good that he did in his lifetime must have canceled out the bad. You should agree with me, Asitis.
Posted by: Bethany at March 19, 2009 9:04 AM
No you didn’t say it’s acceptable. I highly doubt you would. I certainly don’t find it acceptable. I think you’d be hard-pressed to find someone who did.
Did I say the good in his life cancelled out the bad?
But if they did find it acceptable, then
know I will be back at the clinic where my daughter Aubrey died one day. Amazing grace to tell one girl my story and have her change her mind and keep her baby….:)
sorry, Carla for being vague. I meant going back to the clinic where sweet Aubrey died.
I’m doing groceries too! My most hated chore. :(
Sorry Bethany. Omit that last line………
“But if they did find it acceptable, then”
I leave asitis to jaw at herself or some other poor soul (hopefully NOT you Bethany!), ad nauseum.
Just remember asitis, BABIES DIE @ Planned Barrenhood.
Kate, I understand that you think that what Ted Bundy chose to do in his lifetime was wrong, but you have to remember it was only a very small percentage of his lifetime. The rest of his life he was a wonderful man, who did good things for people. Why judge him for the 10 percent of his life he chose to do things you don’t like?
(in case you’re truly confused, this is satire).
Posted by: Bethany at March 19, 2009 9:08 AM
Betahny, your point is that prochoicers excuse PP for the 3% of their services (or 10% of their clients) that abortion accounts for because of all the good they do? Well, you’re wrong: prochoicers do need to “excuse” abortion, remember?
Now on the otherhand, if you are suggesting we are saying prolifers should excuse PP because of the good they do, you are also wrong. I am not suggesting you should excuse them or like them or not want to see them abolished. I understand that because they perform abortions they are evil to you.
Now on the otherhand, if you are suggesting we are saying prolifers should excuse PP because of the good they do, you are also wrong. I am not suggesting you should excuse them or like them or not want to see them abolished. I understand that because they perform abortions they are evil to you.
Then why keep trying to justify it by this incessant talk about how it’s only 3 percent of their services? If you understand this very simple concept, why keep trying to convince us by using that argument?
I leave asitis to jaw at herself or some other poor soul (hopefully NOT you Bethany!), ad nauseum.
Just remember asitis, BABIES DIE @ Planned Barrenhood.
Posted by: angel at March 19, 2009 9:22 AM
Yeah, well you see this differently than I do “Angel”.
I’m done jawing unless anyone else has anything else for me. Glad I could help you out on that percentage discepancy, Obviously you know how to calculate percentage (they have decent schools up there too!), but you were comparing perecntage of clients to percentage of services and that’s why the numbers didn’t match up (your welcome!)
my, my we are “touchy” today! Glad I could straighten you out, asitis! haha!
your post is a perfect example of “jawin”!!
Carla, I think the world of you, but I think you’re off on the “kill babies for profit” issue. There are so many easier ways to make money in this world, I think PP offers abortion services because they believe women have the right to such procedures and are trying to offer it the best they can. I’ve seen no numbers showing they actually make a “profit” from abortions. It could be a major source of revenue, but it’s probably also a major expense. What does each abortion cost to perform, and what to they charge for it? I wouldn’t be surprised if the other 97% of their services subsidize the abortions. Bottom line, they’re motivated by a sincere desire to help women. If you don’t understand that, you’ll never reach them.
You think they’re wrong, and you have arguments supporting your position. That might persuade some people. Asserting that “it’s all about hurting women for profit” won’t convince anyone. It makes no sense.
Then why keep trying to justify it by this incessant talk about how it’s only 3 percent of their services? If you understand this very simple concept, why keep trying to convince us by using that argument?
Posted by: Bethany at March 19, 2009 9:32 AM
I am saying it’s only 3 percent of their business to clear up this idea that abortion is all they do. The “incessant talk” has been in response to some things that have been thrown out here that needed correcting:
“They do abortions. That is what they do. Abortions.”
“abortions are 9.28 % of their services”.
“The majority of $$$$$ is made by abortions”
“PP’s profit in 2006 was 114.8 Million”
“Client services is stuffed with many meaningless procedures”
I understand that PP is evil to you, simply because it does abortions. Some prolifers have been so good here as to come right out and say they don’t give a fig how much of their business is abortions or what other work they do. I wouldn’t challenge them on that. I get it.
Your case would probably be best served by leaving it at that.
my, my we are “touchy” today!
Posted by: angel at March 19, 2009 9:36 AM
Touchy? Why? Because you didn’t thank me for showing you your error? I don’t care really…. I didn’t expect you to. You never have.
Hal: I think it’s more likely ideology that’s very well disguised.
PP “conveniently” locates in poor areas under the guise of “helping” women to be free from the “burden” of pregnancy. The intention is to prevent these babies from ever being born.
Poor women do not need to murder their babies, they need education, skills to live with dignity.
Touchy? Why? Because you didn’t thank me for showing you your error? I don’t care really…. I didn’t expect you to. You never have.
Posted by: asitis at March 19, 2009 9:52 AM
*sob** *sob*
need a hanky?
OMG how I miss that word! I never hear “hanky” here. Thanks! Funny the things that make you homesick…..
Angel, poor women have less options if they want an abortion. If PP wants to help them, it makes sense to locate in poorer neighborhoods. I’m not saying you have to agree with them, but at least try to understand their point of view.
OMG how I miss that word! I never hear “hanky” here. Thanks! Funny the things that make you homesick…..
Posted by: asitis at March 19, 2009 10:07 AM
duh, what? you are such a strange wman!!
you seem edgy today asitis. Hope you feel better.
I don’t hear hanky much anymore. It must be a Canadian word.
Angel, poor women have less options if they want an abortion. If PP wants to help them, it makes sense to locate in poorer neighborhoods. I’m not saying you have to agree with them, but at least try to understand their point of view.
Posted by: Hal at March 19, 2009 10:10 AM
Hal you asking me to understand the pov that it is ok to kill a baby.
I simply can’t do that. It is incomprehensible to me.
abortion=murder.
Angel, poor women have less options if they want an abortion. If PP wants to help them, it makes sense to locate in poorer neighborhoods. I’m not saying you have to agree with them, but at least try to understand their point of view.
Posted by: Hal at March 19, 2009 10:10 AM
Not to mention, rates of STI’s and unintended pregnancy are higher in poorer neighbourhoods.
I don’t hear hanky much anymore. It must be a Canadian word.
Posted by: asitis at March 19, 2009 10:16 AM
too bad you must have either a limited vocab or you don’t get out too much.
maybe that’s why you’re feeling low eh?
you can listen to the american or british pronunciation here:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hankie
hope that helps!
Oh I get out plenty.. especially to hockey rinks, where you think there would be lots of hankies. But no. Maybe it’s a regional thing. They say “tissue” here. (Does anyone actually use handkerchiefs anymore? My dad did.)
In any case….. I certainly heard it widely used “back home”. So thanks for the slice of Ontario!
Hal: you also are suggesting that if I think something is evil I should try to understand it and accept it.
Do you feel the same about the Austrian father who raped his daughter and fathered 7 children with her?
Can you understand his pov and accept it? If not, why not?
Oh I get out plenty.. especially to hockey rinks, where you think there would be lots of hankies. But no. Maybe it’s a regional thing. They say “tissue” here. (Does anyone actually use handkerchiefs anymore? My dad did.)
In any case….. I certainly heard it widely used “back home”. So thanks for the slice of Ontario!
Posted by: asitis at March 19, 2009 10:26 AM
honestly, sweetie, I have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about!
perhaps you should go back and play with your numbers and percentages – you seemed happier doing that.
Really “Angel”? You don’t think they say hanky in Ontario? Not even in the Bible Belt? How about amongst sedimentary petrologists in the Ontario Bible Belt????. OMG, I’m laughing so hard i think I do need that hanky!
Thanks for the laugh as I have to head out to drop off our tax stuff. You have an extra couple weeks on us. It’s crunch time here baby!
yes, we use tissue too where I live. But hankie/hanky/hankey had a more elegant sound, don’t you think!!?? It was “perkier”! And you definitely need “perky”!!
Maybe that’s your problem. Too many hockey rinks? Try to diversify and get out more to a more varied number of activities. I find the feminine mind needs aesthetics to be refreshed!
Hope this helps you!
Yes, definitely too many hockey rink. And it’s been a long haul. So GLAD that is being replaced now by lacrosse season. It may be your national sport, but it’s HUGE down here! And I have a boy who excels (proud mom moment!)
Really “Angel”? You don’t think they say hanky in Ontario? Not even in the Bible Belt? How about amongst sedimentary petrologists in the Ontario Bible Belt????. OMG, I’m laughing so hard i think I do need that hanky!
Thanks for the laugh as I have to head out to drop off our tax stuff. You have an extra couple weeks on us. It’s crunch time here baby!
Posted by: asitis at March 19, 2009 10:37 AM
wow, I’m totally lost here! I don’t even know what you are talking about anymore.
you are a very strange person.
Nice try. You have no idea how transparent you are, do you?
Those might even been the same words you used last time!
wow, *conspiracy alert*
You have no idea how strange you are!
I notice that you always try to attack a person when you cannot defend your position.
asitis: you have a nice day. And try to calm down.
I feel sorry for you. Are you post-abortive, by any chance?
Hal @ 9:42,
You’ve been here HOW long? Are you serious or egging us on?
********
asitis, asitis, asitis,
PP “creatively” reports their various service to reach the 3% figure for abortion services. It’s been discussed many times on this blog. I believe PP includes various sundry items such as condoms, pap smears, etc. as “services” which will obviously decrease the reported percentage for abortion. If I can find more on this, I will post. Does this ring a bell with anyone?
Janet, it makes sense to me that they would try to diversify there operations somewhat. After all, the prolife attack on PP has always been that they are primarily an organization that deals death – to babies and women.
I notice that you always try to attack a person when you cannot defend your position.
Posted by: angel at March 19, 2009 10:48 AM
What position am I trying and unable to defend here? Huh? Nice try again!
No, I’m not post-abortive. I have never had an abortion. I have had two wonderful pregnancies resulting in two sons though…. whom I love dearly!
Calm down? What’s wrong with a good belly laugh? It does a person good. Thanks for this one!
Janet, I remember the post by Jill about it, and I’ve tried to locate it, but I can’t remember the title …I have emailed her to ask if she remembers it.
Hi Janet. Here’s the breakdown on services performed:
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/AR_2007_vFinal.pdf
They are all legitimate and valuable health and reproductive services. And I don’t see evidence that they are breaking services down to inflate the non-abortion numbers. Do you?
abortion does not equal “legitimate” nor “valuable”
certainly not to the baby and not to many women either.
abortion does not equal “legitimate” nor “valuable”
certainly not to the baby and not to many women either.
Posted by: angel at March 19, 2009 11:13 AM
Well, you would probably say that about contraception and other things on that list as well “Angel” but I wasn’t referring to how you would see them.
Furthermore, I was specifically referring to the non-abortion services which is what Janet was questioning.
I think the world of you Hal. I thought of you this past weekend when all of the men with tears running down their faces came and hugged me.
I think we have been over this, haven’t we, dude? :)
Yes. PP believes what they are doing is right and good and helpful for women. I disagree. STRONGLY. As do the thousands of other women I know that were lied to about their abortion experience. As do the thousands of others that want justice for the unborn.
I pray, Hal. I pray for you and Danielle and PP workers and women driving right now to get their abortions today. I am praying about it all. God is bigger than abortion.
Dismiss my words as you see fit but you like me Hal!!! :) Oh, and so does asitis. But don’t tell her that I told you. Pass her a note in study hall that asks her if she likes me but DON’T tell her I like her UNLESS she says she likes me first.
Haha Carla. You know I like you and vice versa! Psst… teacher’s coming.
Well, then Hal gets detention!! :P
Man…………..All the cool kids get detention! Wanna do something bad and we can go too? That would be way more fun than the accountant’s. (Yes I’m procrastinating!)
asitis,
The post you linked to proves my point, but then it’s all a matter of perspective. If you believe that a pap smear, HIV test, and an abortion should all carry the same weight as a “service” provided by Planned Parenthood, then go right ahead.
PP “conveniently” locates in poor areas under the guise of “helping” women to be free from the “burden” of pregnancy. The intention is to prevent these babies from ever being born.
Posted by: angel at March 19, 2009 9:55 AM
-A quick point of clarification…not all clinics are in low income neighborhoods. In my hometown in the midwest, there is one in a fairly affluent zip code not far from where I grew up. Where I live now, the clinic is in a former low income area which turned over and gentrified nearly 10 years ago and has patients from all over. I’m sure that many are located in lower income areas but this is not at all the only demographic that they serve. The idea that PP is deliberately preying on poor women – or that there reason for being is to only support poor women – is a misnomer exaggerated by both PL and PC camps.
asitis,
They are all legitimate and valuable health and reproductive services. And I don’t see evidence that they are breaking services down to inflate the non-abortion numbers. Do you?
I think you meant to say “deflate” not “inflate”. If so, the answer is yes, I do.
asitis,
OOPS, I misread that sentence of yours.
Yes, I think they are trying to inflate the NON-ABORTION numbers for services.
Bethany,
Thank you!
asitis,
The post you linked to proves my point, but then it’s all a matter of perspective. If you believe that a pap smear, HIV test, and an abortion should all carry the same weight as a “service” provided by Planned Parenthood, then go right ahead.
Posted by: Janet at March 19, 2009 11:38 AM
The services aren’t “weighted” Janet, that’s true. How do you propse they do that? Would there be any weight you could assign to abortion that would be sufficient? Why not just say that ” They do abortion and that’s all I need to know. Nothing else matters to me.”?
Otherwise, if you were looking for evidence of inflated non-abortion service numbers, you could look for services to be broken down. For example: STI Testing and STI Treatment could be listed separately. But they aren’t. They are listed as one service.
Yes, I think they are trying to inflate the NON-ABORTION numbers for services.
Posted by: Janet at March 19, 2009 11:42 AM
How? Can you show me in the list? I don’t see it
Ms. Danielle, no offense, but there are not very clinics- I’m sure- that care if you’re an actual doctor or not. You probably don’t need to be an LPN or RN before you can do anything in a clinic. Very few of the personnel there are doctors, anyway.
Posted by: Vannah at March 18, 2009 9:01 PM
-And how do you know this? Every person I encounter on the 2nd floor of my clinic, where abortions are preformed, are medical professionals (save for the pregnant sanitation worker).
asitis,
Why not just say that ” They do abortion and that’s all I need to know. Nothing else matters to me.”?
Ok, you are being sarcastic. I’m being serious. Have fun with those taxes.
Janet, no! I wasn’t being sarcastic, Not at all. Sorry, I didn’t mean to give that impression. I was being serious. I thought you might feel that way. And as I have said before, I understand this.
statistics can be manipulated to show whatever we want them to show. The low percentages of abortion services, however they are obtained, are really not providing the picture of PP.
If we look at PP’s stats over the years, every year they show a substantial increase in surgical abortions.
Their use of emerg contraceptive kits has gone from 30,000 kits in 1997 to a whopping 1.4 million in 2007.
Some aspects of their business create other aspects in an ever vicious circle. For example, I wonder how many contraceptive clients return for STI treatment.
Their contraceptive business simply creates more and more clients for abortion and STI treatment.
It’s like a vortex of evil!
The reason why Planned Parenthood is located in so many low-income neighborhoods is because women there are less likely to have access to OB-GYN care. Higher income women can just go to doctors affiliated with private hospitals.
“Angel” does the increased use of EC over the past 20 years have anything to do with new drug approvals and improvements?
asitis,
I don’t need a response from you based on how you think I might feel. Take my words at face value.
Okay, you had suggested that PP “creatively” reports their services to arrive at the 3% figure for abortion. Personally, I don’t see evidence in the report that they have done this.
Now you are suggesting that the services should be weighted to give a true picture? Well, I think that’s being creative, but nevertheless, how do you propose doing this Janet? What weights do you assign to the different services?
And where do you see evidence that they are breaking services down to inflate the non-abortion services?
of course it does-you know it. I don’t need leading questions asitis.
However it simply is one more way that PP can increase it’s number of abortions. (remember EC taken between 48 and 72 hours will act 71% or the time to cause an abortion)
PP’s main goal is abortion and birth prevention.
And where do you see evidence that they are breaking services down to inflate the non-abortion services?
Posted by: asitis at March 19, 2009 12:30 PM
it’s more that they have diversified their services with the intent to demonstrate that they are an overall health service to women
they aren’t.
they are abortion and birth prevention specialists. Period.
The total number of abortions has increased yearly.
One would think that an organization such as PP would be in the business of making abortion rare. They aren’t interested in doing this. They are interested in keeping their clinics busy with abortion and contraception services. Handing out contraceptives means they know many of those clients will return for abortions because the contraceptive mentality leads to abortion.
All the other stuff is just fluff. It serves to hide the eugenics and population control aspect of their business.They know. You know it.
oh, well shame on them for providing all these services “angel”!
These services are not fluff. PP beloved they are helping people. I believe this too. I appreciate that you do not believe that are.
asitis,
It’s been fun, but I don’t have time to continue this futile conversation. Maybe YOU could think of an alternate way that PP could report their services that just might result in a HIGHER % of their total services being abortions. Can you?
“angel” do you think others realized this was the reason for increased use of EC over the past 20 years?
Does EC really cause an abortion? I thought at most it inhibited implantation.
Janet, I think the services are pretty straightforward the way they are presented. I can’t suggest an changes.
ANGEL at 12:43
AGREED!! :)
Hal: you also are suggesting that if I think something is evil I should try to understand it and accept it.
Do you feel the same about the Austrian father who raped his daughter and fathered 7 children with her?
Can you understand his pov and accept it? If not, why not?
Posted by: angel at March 19, 2009 10:26 AM
I didn’t say try to accept it. I said try to understand it, and continue to condemn it. You can better argue against something if you understnad why it’s happening.
If I said that Austrian father was keeping his daughter in a basement for financial gain, it wouldn’t make sense. Attacking him for being greedy would miss the mark.
Saying PP wants to perform more abortions because they get to charge a fee for it also doesn’t make sense. I just think it would be helpful for you to acknowledge that the men and women who work for PP, or donate time and money to the organization, do so for what they believe are pure and noble reasons. They honestly believe they’re doing a good thing. So, argue that with them (and us) if you wish. Say why it’s not a good thing, why it hurts women and kills babies. Saying they’re doing it for the money doesn’t advance your argument.
‘Non-profit’ does not mean unprofitable or charitable. ‘Non-profit’ merely means that dividends cannot be ‘legally’ paid to owners.
It is counter intuitive to fund an organization to address a problem when they profit more when their profferred solution fails than they do when it succeeds.
This kind of ill conceived and ill advised boondoggle could only exist with ‘government’ assistance and protection, all at the taxpayers expense.
PP clients who pay cash are billed significantly less and provided with fewer services than those clients who PP qualifies for assistance. And PP makes sure that their employees know how to ‘qualify’ clients.
The taxpayer is gouged as early and as often and as repeatedly as possible.
PP encourages homosexuality, sodomy and masturbation because this kind of sexual activity does not result in pregnancies.
The PP goal is fewer people on the planet.
Ask any of the PP apologists who post here if they believe the planet is already overpopulated.
This why they are pushing their ‘global warming’ gospel so aggresively. They want to manipulate people into birthing fewer children in general and fewer inferior children in particular. Some are racists, and for that reason they target ethnic minorities, but mostly they look with disdain on those whom they deem ‘less equal’ than they are whatever the ethnicity.
This is not ‘class’ class warfare. It is war between the two seeds.
yor bro ken
PP does not just passively receive government funding and restrict their activities to providing services to clients. They actively advance their own agenda by lobbying elected officials, contributing to political campaigns, and supporting a particular partisan perspective.
Money is fungible. Cash money is not easily traceable. For every tax dollar PP receives for services rendered or kickbacks for referrals made it frees a cash dollar to be allocated for their own political agenda.
Most american would not agree with PP’s ideology and would never willingly agree to give them any financial support, but they are never informed of PP’s agenda nor appraised of PP’s business practices. In fact they are deliberately kept uninformed.
This is the modus operandi of the liberal left. It is a wonder that any prolifer or conservative is ever elected anywhere.
If the tables were turned, which I do not for a second advocate, liberal humanist politicians would be on the endangered species list in short order, assuming such a list would still exist.
yor bro ken
HI Hal,
Abortion hurts women.
Abortion kills babies.
Abortion is big business.
PP is in it for the money.
They believe they help women.
Better? Happy? Having fun yet?
I am being a brat!!
Sorry. I am so excited! A woman who was at my church this past weekend for the first time has the same abortion experience I have had.(Abortion then delivered a baby into her hand when she miscarried) We are meeting at Starbucks tonight!! :)
Carla,
I’m glad you and this woman found each other and I know you will be a great source of support to her. But my friend, Starbucks? Ptui. Expensive, fattening, and tastes terrible!!
Caribou is too loud. Coffee and Bagel shop shoos us out at 8pm. Dunn Brothers is too expensive.
I will have hot choc. :)
Carla,
You go girl!
yor bro ken
I hope all goes well Carla! You sure are a conduit for God’s grace!
Re: above (I stopped reading after a while sorry)
But I don’t understand why, if soo many employees at PP are against PP putting more of an emphasis on adoption, that they would protest against CPC’s so much. If they aren’t going to willingly openly provide that information to their clients who will??
Carla,
Dunkin Donuts is good but those donuts are way too tempting. I’d gain 100 lbs just looking at them.
I’d stick with the hot chocolate too. You can’t go wrong with that!
Have a great time Carla and my best to you and your new friend. It should be a great evening.
Meet me there, people!!
Hi Mary! Speaking of donuts, how’s that weight loss going now that your jaw is better (which i hope it is!)?
asitis,
Hello, its good to see you. My jaw is just fine thank you. The weight loss? Well, let’s just say I’m back at my plateau…where I’ve been for at least 20 years! I knew it was too good to last but I’ll just keep working at it :)
Carla,
Dunkin donuts or Starbuck’s??
Carla, I’m glad you’re meeting this woman and sharing your experience. Your story changed my attitude and raised my awareness about something I thought I knew.
Same as Hal, Carla. I am sure you will be wonderful for her. You’re a very good person!
Mary, whatever the case be well, live well, enjoy life! Maybe the plateau is where you should be. Good to see you too! I was thinking about you today as i was putting together my taxe stuff. Fingers crossed……….
asitis,
LOL. Hey, 110 days, for me is 6 WORKING months, 3.5 calender months, 20 days/month x 5 months is 100 days plus 10 days for the city.
Do I have that right?? :P
I don’t know Mary. What’s percentage did your total tax rate come to? 28% ? Is that what you said? Multiply 12 months by that and that’s how many months you’re “working for the man”!
aisitis,
Thanks. Looks about right, give or take. Close enough :p
28% is about right? Okay, that means you’ll be finished paying taxing by mid April. After that, it’s all yours baby!
Starbucks.
Hot Caramel something something. YUM!
This friend and I have so much in common…non stop talking for 3 hours!! :)
We talked about all of the lies we were told at the abortion clinic. Same lies, different girl. Oh and then we talked about tons of other stuff.
Hal and asitis,
I just want you to know how much I appreciate it that you have taken the time to listen to me and hear me. You at least have been around here long enough to know that I am sincere in what I say and how and why I tell my story. I heart you both.
Carla,
It sounds like you had a wonderful evening. I’m happy for you both.
I also like Hal and asitis very much
Starbuck’s hot caramel? Ptui
I’m happy for you too Carla. And thanks for your kind words. I know you are sincere (beyond sincere!) and I think that you know I am too. Though we often disagree, I always appreciate and like you much!
Oh and Mary, my fellow friend of Victoria’s (how would I ever survive without the Ipex demi-cup?), I like you much too!
Good night all.
I drive by this hell hole just about every day.
Dear God, please destroy this abortatoreum.
This friend and I have so much in common…non stop talking for 3 hours!! :)
We talked about all of the lies we were told at the abortion clinic. Same lies, different girl. Oh and then we talked about tons of other stuff.
Glad to hear that this was supportive for both of you. And good that you were able to connect in other ways too!
God has blessed you both in bringing you together.
Thanks angel, Mary and asitis!! :)
Mary,
I do not know the location of the nearest Dunkin Donuts, my dear. For friendships sake I will do better next time. Patooey. :P
Carla, I’m so happy that you have met someone who can understand you in a way that many others can’t. It’s so good for you two to be able to uplift and comfort each other!
I hope you two will continue to be in touch.
Hal, you have shown yourself to be very openminded many times on this blog, and I thought your comment at 6:01 to Carla was so kind and thoughtful.
I do hope that one day you’ll be on our side on this issue- I know you probably are thinking no way will that ever happen, but seriously, we’d love to have you. :-)
Asitis, we would love to have you too!
I know Bethany and thanks very kindly. But “no way will that ever happen!”
I think it says a lot about people who can be open-minded and kind to the other side, even when they are so far apart. And it gives me hope that somewhere in there lies a better way. A way for people to work together.
Carla, Bethany, Hal, asitis, and angel,
I think asitis says it best in her last post. Though we may all disagree we can still extend a hand in compassion and concern for another person on this blog. This has been demonstrated by the across the board concern for Carla. Everyone is genuinely happy for Carla and her friend, and concerned for them as well.
Hal- I agree with Bethany that your post to Carla was very thoughtful and well written.
Carla- Good luck on the Dunkin Donuts!
Aw. Group Hug.
Aw Carla! Bethany, Hal, Mary!
I’m late – I missed the group hug.
Danielle,
Then we’ll have another one just for you!!
Carla, Bethany, asitis, Hal, Danielle, angel, and me!
Big big group hug :)
I do hope that one day you’ll be on our side on this issue- I know you probably are thinking no way will that ever happen, but seriously, we’d love to have you. :-)
Posted by: Bethany at March 20, 2009 8:01 AM
Well, Bethany, one place we all agree is no one should have an abortion because they feel that they have no choice. So, at least there, we’re on the same side.
((((Danielle))))
Thank you Hal. That sums up how I felt about it. I was faced with something I didn’t want to do. I didn’t want to do it. I felt that I had no choice and was presented with no other choice at the abortion mill. They only offer one choice. So, how is that choice??
asitis,
I have learned to never say never.
Thanks for the 2nd hug!
“Well, Bethany, one place we all agree is no one should have an abortion because they feel that they have no choice. So, at least there, we’re on the same side.”
Posted by: Hal at March 20, 2009 11:51 AM
-Amen, amen, amen.
“That sums up how I felt about it. I was faced with something I didn’t want to do. I didn’t want to do it. I felt that I had no choice and was presented with no other choice at the abortion mill. They only offer one choice. So, how is that choice??”
Posted by: Carla at March 20, 2009 12:47 PM
-That is definitely NOT choice. :(
There is just too much agreement going on here on this thread. cue Twilight Zone music…….
Thanks Danielle. I know you mean that.
Danielle,
There was something you wrote about how no one but the client is allowed beyond the lobby doors and I can’t explain it but it just made me so very sad. An emptiness and an ache for young girls that are scared and have no idea what they are getting into. It seriously breaks my heart.
There was something you wrote about how no one but the client is allowed beyond the lobby doors and I can’t explain it but it just made me so very sad. An emptiness and an ache for young girls that are scared and have no idea what they are getting into. It seriously breaks my heart.
Posted by: Carla at March 20, 2009 2:09 PM
-Sometimes it makes me sad too, Carla – I wish it could be different when I have a mom or friend or partner ask if they can go upstairs and I have to say no. But…security is paramount. Who knows what anyone’s agenda is when they arrive. They can’t take a risk with the safety of the patients or staff.
That’s one of the pieces of my work I enjoy the most, is getting to communicate back and forth on behalf of the patients; letting them know someone is downstairs waiting to take them home, sometimes there’s a sense of comfort that comes over their faces, they remember they’re not there alone.
Ask Carla about how much of a false comfort that becomes when a girl or a young woman suddenly realizes what she’s done. How sad…I weep for the girls who are told “It’s just a blob”, and then the baby comes out and they realize…It’s hard to think about how many people have been hurt by abortion.
And it gives me hope that somewhere in there lies a better way. A way for people to work together
a way that doesn’t include the option of killing a helpless unborn baby!
Yes we could agree on that!! :)
And it gives me hope that somewhere in there lies a better way. A way for people to work together
a way that doesn’t include the option of killing a helpless unborn baby!
Yes we could agree on that!! :)
Posted by: angel at March 20, 2009 9:24 PM
“Angel” you’re not going to get pro-choice to agree on banning contraception, emergency contraception, and abortions, if that’s what you mean.
But then again, you’re not one of the ones I was referring to as giving hope that people might be able to work together.
Quoting Danielle from earlier up above: “…They can’t take a risk with the safety of the patients…”
How Freudian. They take that exact “risk with the safety of the patient” every time they shove a vacuum hose which is 29 TIMES MORE POWERFUL than your standard Hoover up inside the woman lying on the table…then suction out her uterus, then take a sharp bladed spoon, do some scraping, then back to the ole vacuum again. This of course is done AFTER they forcibly open the cervix.
All of which is done BLINDLY by the “doctor” (term used in the loosest sense) who only proceeds by “feel”. He can’t even SEE what he’s doing.
“OOPS ! We’ve got a puncture. Let her bleed out for a while, and if it doesn’t stop, call an ambulance…but NO LIGHTS, NO SIRENS”.
So much for the “safety of the patient”.
Keep deluding yourself, Danielle.
Mike,
I remember that 911 call from Tiller’s place. A patient is being resuscitated and all the “nurse” can concern herself with is whether or not there are lights and sirens.
In a life and death situation most of us wouldn’t care if the rescue squad blew a foghorn, just get here and fast. We also wouldn’t downplay the seriousness of the situation to 911 or put them on hold for 45 seconds.
That’s the good ole abortion industry for you !
How about this one: “Stop screaming! You’re scaring the other patients” !
Herd them in like cattle, vacuum them out, give ’em a cookie, and push ’em out the back door.
“Next in line?”
Mike it sounds to me like you really have a concern about how women are treated during abortions and their safety. Perhaps that’s somewhere you could push for change, if in fact it’s needed.
Danielle,
I am not sad for the same reasons you are sad. A young woman goes into an abortion clinic thinking they will “help” her. She is told outright LIES. They kill her child and she is NEVER the same. She is not the same woman who walked in and her only advocate is not even with her.
These are the lies I was told.
It is just a bunch of cells.
This is the best option for you.
How are you going to raise a child?
No, it doesn’t hurt. Feels like cramps.
Now you can get on with your life.
One day Danielle maybe you will be trained in “counseling” which is more like SELLING abortion.
Or maybe putting the parts of the baby back together after being sucked out of its mother. If you don’t have all the parts the doc has to go back in.
I believe that one day you will know what I know.
I am praying you leave.
Women deserve better than abortion.
Under oath in July 1997, abortionist Carhart comments on how he performs abortions. Here he is questioned by ‘his’ attorney:
Question: At what point is the [human] fetus…does the [human] fetus die during that process?
the time because I can see [human] fetal heartbeat on the ultrasound.
The Court[the presiding judge]: Counsel, for what it’s worth, it still is unclear to me with regard to the intact D&E when [human] fetal demise occurs.
Question: Okay, I will try to clarify that. In the procedure of an intact D&E where you would start foot first, with the situation where the [human] fetus is presented feet first, tell me how you are able to get the feet out first.
Carhart: Under ultrasound, you can see the extremities. You know what is what. You know what the foot is, you know, what the arm is, you know, what the skull is. By grabbing the feet and pulling down on it or by grabbing a knee and pulling down on it, usually you can get one leg out, get the other leg out and bring the [human] fetus out. I don’t know where this…all the controversy about rotating the [human] fetus comes from. I don’t attempt to do that. I just attempt to bring out whatever is the proximal portion of the [human] fetus.
Question: At the time that you bring out the feet in this example, is the [human] fetus still alive?
Carhart: Yes.
Later under cross examination [while still under oath] from the AG’S counsel, Carhart stated:
“My intent in every abortion I have ever done is to kill the [human] fetus and terminate the pregnancy.”
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Who could listen to that testimony and not want to slap the dude upside the head and ask, ‘Man, what is wrong with you?’
What have you done to YOURSELF?
Is there anything left of YOUR humanity?
How did you become so stump stupid?
Did it come natural or did you work at it?
Did you take a small flaw and pick at it (like a child picking at a scab), until you reached this level of psychotic proficiency?
If we give you a shovel is there any hope that you will finally figure out how to use it and dig a hole so deep you cannot climb out of it, hopefully before you download your genetic information into some unsuspecting female.
yor bro ken
Posted by: Danielle at March 20, 2009 5:38 PM
“Who knows what anyone’s agenda is when they arrive. They can’t take a risk with the safety of the patients or staff.”
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There is NO concern on the part of the staff for the saftey of the human embryo/fetus and there is one person’s agenda that is not in doubt.
The abortionist:
Later under cross examination [while still under oath] from the AG’S counsel, [abortionist]Carhart stated:
“My intent in every abortion I have ever done is to kill the [human] fetus and terminate the pregnancy.”
yor bro ken