Jivin J’s Life Links 6-22-09
by JivinJ
I got two abortions to preserve my career. To keep my options open. To keep my aspirations within reach.
I bought into the idea that kids undermine your ability to build an amazing career.
And here I am, with the amazing career.
But also, here I am with two kids. So I know a bit about having kids and a career. And I want to tell you something: You don’t need to get an abortion to have a big career. Women who want big careers want them because something deep inside you drives you to change the world, lead a revolution, break new barriers….
Whereas there is a history of violence against providers of reproductive health care, as health care employees have suffered threats and hostility in order to provide crucial services to patients….
I find it at least somewhat controversial to call performing abortions “provid(ing) crucial services.” I also find it interesting that the resolution never uses the word “abortion.”
We also get a shot of Jill’s less-than-impeccable logic where she argues that because talk show host Joe Scarborough wanted to defend a guy who killed an abortion provider (and who he happened to know) back when he was a lawyer, and was later supported by National Right to Life when he ran for Congress as a pro-life candidate, NRLC and the Republican Party therefore must support violence against abortion providers.
Maybe MSNBC also supports violence against abortion providers because they hired Joe Scarborough to be a talk show host.
But if he had read Proposal 2’s language, he would know that it allowed the killing of human embryos who were created via IVF for family building but are no longer wanted by their parents and would otherwise be discarded, or are not suitable for implantation.
Ed’s a fairly knowledgeable guy, so I’m trying to imagine how little the average MI voter knew about Proposal 2.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
“I find it at least somewhat controversial to call performing abortions “provid(ing) crucial services.” I also find it interesting that the resolution never uses the word “abortion.””
I’ve also heard pro aborts refer to abortions as “necessary medical procedures” and other similar terms.
And yes they do manage to avoid the word “abortion” a lot. If they are so much in favor of it, why can’t they bring themselves to say the word?
I think it’s because even radical pro aborts know in their hearts it’s wrong.
Doesn’t stop them though from demanding the “procedures.”
I’d like to see the stats on when abortion is REALLY a “necessary medical procedure” in saving the life of the mother…
..anybody?
the Penelope Trunk blog made me crazy.
Her career is EVERYTHING, to the point that she killed two babies and failed in her marriage. If you read her other posts, you see that nothing matters more to this woman than her career.
The way she talks about her stay-at-home (ex) husband is just downright wrong.
I’m sorry but I want to biTch-slap this woman. (pardon my language).
“I’d like to see the stats on when abortion is REALLY a “necessary medical procedure” in saving the life of the mother…”
“..anybody?”
Posted by: RSD at June 22, 2009 2:26 PM
Well, the PC’rs and PA’rs will tell you that ectopic pregnancies and removing miscarried babies are abortion. That’s two I can think of. :(
RSD,
Other questions for PC’rs and PA’rs (Pro-abortioners) :
What procedure could George Tiller have performed legally that a regular doctor could not legally perform? Is there such a great skill involved in dealing with ectopic pregnancies and removal of miscarried babies that only a George Tiller could possibly handle such procedures?
Or was Tiller’s unique skill that he would abort on-demand for any reason?
I have to give Penelope Trunk credit for telling her story about her abortions when a majority of women don’t tell anyone. What annoys me is to hear that her mother hounded her for a week to have the abortion. These are probably the same mothers that will hound their daughters to have a baby so they’ll have a grandchild.
You can’t have both, ya know?
The title of her article is unique (What’s the connection between abortion and careers?) She sums it up with a good question: “…are there other women out there who had abortions in the name of their career and their potential? What do those women think now?”
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/06/17/whats-the-connection-between-abortions-and-careers/
I have to give Penelope Trunk credit for telling her story about her abortions when a majority of women don’t tell anyone.
I agree whole heartedly Janet. But boy, she sure is set on that career of hers. I wonder: will anybody care 10 years from now? Talk about having the blinders on…..
Well, the PC’rs and PA’rs will tell you that ectopic pregnancies and removing miscarried babies are abortion. That’s two I can think of. :(
Posted by: Janet at June 22, 2009 5:14 PM
*****************************************
And that’s when you tell them, “NO. Those are not examples of elective abortion.”
Ectopic pregnancies are deadly to both mother and child. A miscarried child has already died (so obviously, the body naturally did so, and this was not an “elective abortion” but a “spontaneous” one), and its removal saves the mother’s life, otherwise she could die of sepsis and infection.
But they already know this, and they know there’s a HUGE difference.
“I’d like to see the stats on when abortion is REALLY a “necessary medical procedure” in saving the life of the mother…”
“..anybody?”
Posted by: RSD at June 22, 2009 2:26 PM
Well, the PC’rs and PA’rs will tell you that ectopic pregnancies and removing miscarried babies are abortion. That’s two I can think of. :(
Posted by: Janet at June 22, 2009 5:14 PM
-Well Janet & RSD, that’s two reasons that have been uncovered.
The rest – unless you’re the doctor or the woman – are simply none of your business.
Danielle, I think that everyone in society has a right to know why a child is killed. We aren’t talking about having a tooth pulled or a mole removed.
Danielle: “The rest – unless you’re the doctor or the woman – are simply none of your business.”
How is that exactly Danielle? Do you mean to suggest that all statistical analysis of medically related charateristics remains only in the realm of the patient and doctor? Do you mean to imply that, say, childhood obesity frequency are “none of our business?” Do you mean to suggest that the incident rate of rape should not be accessable to the general public? Im not sure I follow your “reasoning” here.
(Of course, Im generously assuming that you are not simply confused and have interpreted RSD’s query to be targeted towards specific cases. Maybe Im wrong to give you that much credit. Im just waiting for you to finally respond with the “okay okay, Im just too stupid and/or too lazy to read properly” defense.)
Danielle you might be interested to read this article about how late term abortions are pretty much never done for medical necessity as the proaborts claim:
http://www.frc.org/infocus/is-late-term-abortion-ever-necessary
In case you are wondering, Mary Davenport was formerly an abortionist who became prolife.
“I find it at least somewhat controversial to call performing abortions “provid(ing) crucial services.”
Of course the majority of abortions preformed and which pro-choice activists are lobbying for are elective, and are as “medically necessary” as plastic surgery. Now abortions preformed in the case of health endangerment to the woman or because of a poor prenatal diagnosis are technically termed, “theraputic” and are “medically necessary”
Thank you Angel…for posting the link…
..and, just to remind people, how many abortions are done per day??
Posted by: Oliver at June 23, 2009 2:15 AM:
“How is that exactly Danielle? Do you mean to suggest that all statistical analysis of medically related charateristics remains only in the realm of the patient and doctor? Do you mean to imply that, say, childhood obesity frequency are “none of our business?” Do you mean to suggest that the incident rate of rape should not be accessable to the general public? Im not sure I follow your “reasoning” here.”
-I meant what I said (and not flippantly): In the cases of medical study, practice and resource purposes, of course there has to be measurement. But in the cases of lay people like you and I, there is no reason, short of your direct involvement in the pregnancy or life of the woman, for us to know the reasons behind her choice to abort, other than to generalize, judge, assume and scapegoat.
I’m not a PC woman who feels the need to ‘justify’ abortion as primarily a resource for the indigant, the naive, victims, etc. I know about those cases, I acknowledge them, but frankly, its beating a dead horse. I’m relieved that there’s access for that woman. But that doesn’t mean that I DON’T want access for the myriad of others who, for reasons not fully understood by you or me, have chosen to have an abortion. I might understand if I knew, I might not. I might consider it an act of bravery, selfishness, selfLESSness or cowardice. But those are my own values being projected onto a life that has absolutely no bearing on me. I’m not raising her family. I’m not the one who’s pregnant. I have NO IDEA what her situation is. Neither do you.
Its easier to wrap our heads around something as complex as abortion if you try to simplify it: “I abhor this act and can’t understand how others could do it. Therefore, I must dehumanize or vilify it (either the woman, the doctor, the industry, the supporters, the procedure or all the above) in order for it to make sense, in order for me to feel better.”
Certain things that I believe in protect both the constituency I support and the ones I don’t. I believe that a government should support its people in times of need. That’s what federal programs (welfare, medicaid, etc) are meant to do. Does that mean that its not abused? Of course not. Ex, the lady with 8 babies – I’ve got all sorts of unkind and judgemental thoughts about the choices she’s made in her life. I think she totally abused the system. But it’s a system that also works for others who DIDN’T abuse it. And at the end of the day, theoretically, there are 14 (or however many) babies who have a meal BECAUSE of that system, which is why I believe in it in the 1st place.
Legal access to abortion provides for that perennial pro-life archetype: The wanton, sex-driven whore who uses abortion as a means of annual birth control; for the perennial pro-choice archetype: The trapped, 12 year old incest victim and host of people in between. My bottom line is making sure that ALL women have access to abortion if she chooses. Therefore, her reasons why are not my concern.
Finally, yes, there are areas where I do support the government insuinating themselves into my life. Others I don’t. Abortion is one of them.
“Im just waiting for you to finally respond with the “okay okay, Im just too stupid and/or too lazy to read properly” defense.”
-That’s not going to happen.
Perfectly said Danielle. Couldn’t have said it any better if I tried.
Danielle,
“But those are my own values being projected onto a life that has absolutely no bearing on me. I’m not raising her family. I’m not the one who’s pregnant. I have NO IDEA what her situation is. Neither do you.”
You must realize that the actions of each of us has a bearing on the rest of society. It’s lazy and selfish not to acknowledge that – we can’t live our lives as if we are masters of our own little fiefdoms. Why not reach out to those who are suffering instead of ignoring them?
You must realize that the actions of each of us has a bearing on the rest of society. It’s lazy and selfish not to acknowledge that – we can’t live our lives as if we are masters of our own little fiefdoms. Why not reach out to those who are suffering instead of ignoring them?
Posted by: Janet at June 23, 2009 5:29 PM
-I already explained that I do agree with oversight and involvement in some societal situations. This is just not one of them. Whether or not you reproduce – if you try/don’t try, never do it or do it 12 times, how you do it – is really one of the most private parts of a woman/couple’s life. Again – if you’re a part of the medical practice (I’m including research and therapy in that) or an immediate family member, probing someone on these kind of decisions is very much your role. But I fit in neither of those at present, and therefore it is NOT my role.
Now, someone reaching out to you or your organization directly for counsel? Entirely different. You’re welcome to be all in their business.
Danielle… first of all, you did not seem to get the point that ectopic pregnancies and removing an already deceased baby are NOT abortions, no matter how much pro-aborts claim they are.
To answer the question: there is NO legitimate medical need that is met in a clinic such as Tiller’s that is not already provided for, in a far safer fashion, in hospitals across the country… even Catholic hospitals… because if the mother’s life were truly in danger, any medical professional would intervene.
The only “problem” is that those medical personnel would also work to save the life of the child, which is what the proaborts don’t want to see happening.
Danielle… first of all, you did not seem to get the point that ectopic pregnancies and removing an already deceased baby are NOT abortions, no matter how much pro-aborts claim they are.
Posted by: Elisabeth at June 23, 2009 8:53 PM
-I was unaware that I was supposed to be getting a point other than the point that I already made, which is, the personal reasons with which a woman decides to have an abortion are none of my concern. Its between her doctor, her partner and her faith. You and I can concentrate on our own lives.
Danielle,
“the personal reasons with which a woman decides to have an abortion are none of my concern. Its between her doctor, her partner and her faith. You and I can concentrate on our own lives.”
Some people predict that legalized euthanasia is next. Do you feel the same about euthanizing the elderly, the disabled, and the unwanted as you do abortion?
I had no doctor, no partner and no faith.(Obama loves to use that phrase too.)Where did that leave me?
When you say doctor, Danielle do you mean the doctor you go to for checkups? I didn’t have one of those. OR do you mean the abortionist? He didn’t look at me or talk to me. In fact, he was rude and rough and angry when he dilated my cervix and used the vacuum to kill my baby. Are you talking about him?
Concentrating on our own lives simply means deciding not to give a rip about the teenager who doesn’t know what to do or the young woman pregnant and abused by her boyfriend or the little girl who was raped and forced to abort.
Yes, lets look the other way cover our ears and not offer them any hope or help. UNLESS, it’s abortion of course. LaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLa
Concentrating on our own lives SEEMS much more compassionate.
Some people predict that legalized euthanasia is next. Do you feel the same about euthanizing the elderly, the disabled, and the unwanted as you do abortion?
Posted by: Janet at June 23, 2009 11:39 PM
–Janet, I’m not of the mindset that we’re on a ‘slippery slope’ toward something like that. It’s fear based – same idea as someone suggesting, “if people are allowed to marry the same gender what’s to stop me from marrying my cat”…that mentality.
Frankly, I’m not as sure on my viewpoints on euthanasia as I am on abortion. I’m still working through that, but I will say that a mentally competent adult choosing to end their own life through euthanasia vs. what you suggested above are two vastly different things. What you are referring to is some sort of forced elimination of the less fortunate among us which, in my mind, is absurd…if someone equates abortion with the Jewish Holocaust, then this is a futile argument.
And Carla,
OK. I know what you were posting above was rhetorical. What else exactly do you want me to say? That since your experience was piss poor then everyone’s is? Since you did not have the support of friends, family or doctor then no one else can? I said that involvement in a pregnant woman’s life can come from anyone in her immediate family or social circle. Her doctor or therapist. Any person/organization that she reaches out to for counsel. Those are three pretty big buckets that many fall into.
Unless you are one of these three groups or you’re a statistician collecting data/research, I will restate my original point: there is no reason for us to know the reasons behind her choice to abort, other than to generalize, judge, assume and scapegoat.
Abortion
It’s between a woman, her doctor, her partner and her faith. Rhetoric. Just words.
And no there is nothing you can say to refute my abortion story.
“Pi** poor” describes a bad hair day.
Abortion cannot be undone. A child dies and a mother is wounded.
I need to know the reasons behind a woman’s choice to abort so I can meet her needs(physical, emotional, financial)and she chooses LIFE for her baby. I make it my business. I will get involved.
And no there is nothing you can say to refute my abortion story. “Pi** poor” describes a bad hair day. Abortion cannot be undone. A child dies and a mother is wounded.
I need to know the reasons behind a woman’s choice to abort so I can meet her needs(physical, emotional, financial)and she chooses LIFE for her baby. I make it my business. I will get involved.
Posted by: Carla at June 24, 2009 9:20 AM
-Keep getting involved, then. I wasn’t confident that an oppositional voice would actually give someone pause (seriously, that was naive of me. We’re past that – the partisan divide in our camps has grown too wide), but I guess until I either get banned or Jill officially decides to only post pro-life positive comments on her site, some dissent will remain, so long as this is a passionate subject matter. I said what I have to say on personal involvement in abortion- I hope my position was clear.
More importantly – I cannot believe you projected a ‘refute’ of your abortion story out of what I replied back to you. I’m not sure how many times or different ways you need to hear or read from me, my position on your personal experience. I’m not repeating it anymore. With some free time, anyone here could call up the history of my posts and get the jist. There simply aren’t enough verbs and adjectives in Webster’s to punctuate your story, apparently. You know exactly what I meant when I replied. Every counter discussion on the abortion experience is not a personal attack on your own, can we separate that, please.
Wait a minute…
Is this the old Danielle or the new Danielle?
If this is the old one, I apologize. There was someone posting as Danielle that clearly did not sound like you and I assumed that was not you or they are both you??
Yes. You know my story.
The point of this blog is to discuss rationally and respectfully all topics related to LIFE. You can’t get banned for doing that.
Are you as fed up as I am, Danielle??
Yes this is old school-former PP volunteer Danielle. I haven’t posted to the board in a few weeks, but everything on this thread is me. Wasn’t aware that there was another (impostor!) Danielle. Does this help clarify?
I’m glad you know that I know. Now I know that you know that I know. I DO know. I hear your voice. I hear you.
Are you as fed up as I am, Danielle??
Posted by: Carla at June 24, 2009 10:55 AM
YESSSSSSSSSSSSS
Ah, Danielle!!! That Danielle!!! :)
YES!
You and I have covered that ground already. You are one of the few PC here that listen and comment and carry on a decent conversation. Moving on….
What has been going on with you? Are you having a good summer so far?
What has been going on with you? Are you having a good summer so far?
Posted by: Carla at June 24, 2009 11:15 AM
It’s all about work, travelling and sitting in the sun this summer!! So far so good. How about you?
You can click on my green name…..4 kids 4 summer!! It has been pretty fun so far. Swimming, popsicles, sandbox and swingset…..
When you said “old school-former PP volunteer Danielle” does that mean you no longer volunteer?
And just where do you travel? Any travel to me sounds amazing!! :)
“Yes this is old school-former PP volunteer Danielle. I haven’t posted to the board in a few weeks, but everything on this thread is me. Wasn’t aware that there was another (impostor!) Danielle. Does this help clarify?”
Hi Danielle,
“former PP volunteer”
That’s music to my ears. :)
Maybe the “newer Danielle” could pick a different moniker if she returns..
When you said “old school-former PP volunteer Danielle” does that mean you no longer volunteer?
And just where do you travel? Any travel to me sounds amazing!! :)
Posted by: Carla at June 24, 2009 11:41 AM
-Well, I’m taking a temporary hiatus, let’s say that. For no other reason than pure laziness. I was a Saturday AM volunteer and it was a pain getting there early enough not to impact the rest of the afternoon and of course that got worse as the weather got nicer. Plus they had layoffs and the volunteer coordinator was let go. So in my head I’m letting the dust settle over there personnel wise and hoping I can find other days or hours to come in. I did like it though – the interaction w/the patients – I mentioned that before…
As for travel, its been mostly work related but all to great cities so that’s fun. So far this year has taken me to Mexico (vacay), LA, Miami and Chicago. Maybe Austin next. Can’t complain…
Your travel sounds amazing to this stay at home mom. :)
I know you won’t mind my saying that I am praying the dust never settles at PP and you find yourself interacting with women that choose life for their babies.
And I know you won’t mind my saying that I have missed you.
Let’s move to a newer post!!
What Danielle says is all fine and good, until you take into consideration that another person is losing their life in this private medical procedure. If there were a “safe, legal, rare, private” medical procedure that involved escorting an unwilling born human relative at any stage in life to a doctor’s office to be safely and humanely disposed of and “terminated”, I’d object to that too.