Jivin J’s Life Links 10-14-09
by JivinJ
If Choose Life want to continue to exist on campus and, as they put it, “introduce [their] perspective into public discussion, in the interest of promoting respect for all human life,” they should begin to respect the agency and integrity of those women and men protesting outside their doors on Tuesday night.
Outside their doors? Ummm… do you mean the group of students in the room who were childishly screaming children’s songs to disrupt the event and then continued to interrupt the presentation for more than an hour?
Also, note Witt’s response to Natalie Fohl’s (Choose Life’s president) claim that abortion “ends the life of another human being.” Instead of providing any evidence that the unborn aren’t living human beings, Witt argues that this claim is somehow bad (apparently regardless of whether it is true or not) because it means Fohl thinks women who have abortions are murderers.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
It’s rude to say that their protests were childish.
Children behave much better than that and they aren’t normally filled with pure hatred.
:)
Rude? No, rude is interrupting someone who was trying to speak..which is what THEY were doing. You don’t want to call them childish? Ok..call them IDIOTS, then. Their behavior was idiotic. There..is that better? :)
hehe. I love ya, Vannah.
Okay,
Imma be drag here, but did anyone else see the new numbers on abortion deaths of women? It’s something 70,000 women. That’s 70,000.
I’m so furious at everyone who defends this now that I can’t even see straight.
Vannah,
The 70,000 number is garbage. Check out what I wrote about it on the “Chicago bubble zone pushback/backfire” thread.
I hope that it isn’t true, but the truth of the matter is it has nothing to do with pro-choice or pro-life.
Abortion kills women and children. Not legal abortion. Not illegal abortion. Not wire hanger abortin. Not clinic abortion.
But abortion. Period.
And I read a pro-choice awhile ago that said something along the lines of, “I hate it when people make abortion out to be a big deal.”
The other pro-choicers were pleased by this, though. They didn’t say it word for word, but they essentially cheered this on hoping that it made people hate pro-lifers, and I don’t even know where to begin on how infuriating that that is…
And I can’t help but want to slap that person and say, “Uh, hello? It’s a huge deal! And could we take the focus off of you and your “I savez teh world!’ complex for just a second?”
But I’ll definitely check your comment out, Bobby. I really hope that it’s lower than seventy thousand. :(
what a dope Birgitte Witt is.
Well Vannah, as you’ll see, the thing is we have NO idea what the actual number is. Guttmacher provides NO methodology or reference that we can check to see where that number came from (so much for the scientific method). It may as well have been pulled from thin air.
But I agree with what you’re saying. Some (not all) pro-chociers are using this to club pro-lifers over the head when 1) as you pointed out, that’s a sick thing to do and 2) it’s based on essentially nothing.
Guttmacher provides more data in their study than previous studies have attempted to provide. And the vast number of abortion-related deaths occur in countries where the procedure is illegal. So yes, illegal abortion kills women and fetuses. Legal abortion usually only kills the fetuses. In fact Guttmacher is careful not to label it legal and illegal. They classify it as ‘safe’ vs. ‘unsafe.’
And they even suggest medical ‘best practice,’ which is also a good feature of a peer-reviewed study. It argues that reducing the abortion rate to 10 per 1000 women should be the ideal to follow. And the country that achieves this? The drug-using, free loving, condom and pill-using nation of The Netherlands!!
I think you anti’s hate Holland for their freedom! Just like al Qaeda surely does.
Birgitte Witt’s argument is weak. No group practicing free speech in Canada should be silenced or censored. But I thought this line was very telling:
We, as a society, have reached a compromise and a consensus on abortion, in that it should be acceptable and available up until a certain point.
That sums up the attitude of educated people of Quebec fairly well. Choose Life cries out to continue the debate, and the people of Quebec, who have government-paid access to terminations through week 22, respond with, “what debate?”
Now that is the kind of civilized country I prefer to live in.
Damn, Dhalgren, you caught me. I just hate the Netherlands- because I’m evil. Muhaha.
All that I want to do is control and spread violence! Muhahaha!!!
I will…somehow…uh, hmmm…manage to control women by oppressing myself and uh…well, this sounded a lot better when it was dumb logic like yours. So, uh…I’ll somehow achieve world dominance- because, I, uh, think that believing in equal rights does that somehow…uh…
Give me a second. I’ll go watch a stupid movie and get back to you when my sense of rational has been thoroughly squashed.
Then we can talk.
:)
Vannah,
I’d email you, but I don’t have your address.
Bear with me here…
A while back, I wrote something very hurtful to you (intentionally) that I have never forgotten. I wrote it under a different moniker. No matter who’s name I enter as a moniker, it’s still me…I personally cannot get away from that.
Anyway, I am so very sorry for hurting you. If I could take it back I would in a heartbeat.
Later, you wrote something that scared the dickens out of me. It forced me to do some deep soul-searching and pray ALOT. I did, and believe I am a better person for it.
Vannah, I am truly very, very sorry. And I am so very, very glad you’re here.
Don’t worry, Marie, I’m cool with you. :)
But, just to jog my memory, what was this?
Anyways, I’m glad that I said something that made a difference. I’m sure that the work that you do makes a difference to people all of the time. I would give you my email if you wanted it. :)
“I think you anti’s hate Holland for their freedom! Just like al Qaeda surely does.”
Dhalgren, lay off the legalized, non-medicinal toke.
For what it’s worth, the number of women dying in America from illegal abortions before Roe was very low. It was less than 1,000 women per year, and the number was steadily decreasing. Which means that if abortion was made illegal in the US, more women would die from the side effects of hormonal contraception than from illegal abortions. I think it’s an interesting statistic.
“Legal abortion usually only kills the fetuses.”
I am sure Eileen Smith who lost her daughter and grandchild in an abortion will be most grateful for that insight.
Thank you, Dhalgren for that illuminating comment. You said it like it was a a very good thing as opposed to something you consider worse. It chilled me to the bone.
You are correct, sir. My daughter was killed in an abortion.
Thank goodness legal abortion typically only kills one human instead of two…Wait…what part of this do you find acceptable again, and why?
No group practicing free speech in Canada should be silenced or censored. But I thought this line was very telling:
We, as a society, have reached a compromise and a consensus on abortion, in that it should be acceptable and available up until a certain point.
That sums up the attitude of educated people of Quebec fairly well. Choose Life cries out to continue the debate, and the people of Quebec, who have government-paid access to terminations through week 22, respond with, “what debate?”
Now that is the kind of civilized country I prefer to live in.
Posted by: Dhalgren at October 14, 2009 9:22 PM
If your society has reached a consensus, what’s the problem with the status quo being challenged? I’m quite certain that you would have no trouble challenging a policy that you disagreed with, and you would find it absurd for someone to boast that it was a settled issue when clearly it was still controversial. Regarding abortion laws, there are obviously still many people very interested in the debate (you are on a pro-life site debating…er, right?), yet you find it accurate to say that a compromise has already been reached? Show some intellectual honesty: you like the current laws in place and it’s unpleasant when people challenge it and you’d rather them either agree with you or be quiet. Also, if you are so confident that tax-funded abortion up to 22 weeks is the educated, civilized stance, why not relish the opportunity to prove it? The “we’re so obviously right we refuse to discuss it” notion is a joke.
Reporting of abortion-related deaths in this country is extremely distorted. When the immediate cause of death is determined, it can be listed as septicemia, cardiac arrest, peritonitis, etc. and that the woman was pregnant and had an abortion gets relegated to “contributing causes” or “conditions (if any) causing (a)…” So, if one’s goal is to show that legal abortion is safe, tally the immediate causes of death and the deaths are hidden.
Dr. Bernard Nathanson’s testimony to pulling numbers out of a hat with illegal abortion deaths reveals zero qualms at complete fabrication. Always remember that The ends (dead babies) justifies the means (lying) in the abortion camp. It is nonsensical to expect ethical behavior from people who profit financially from exploiting women and killing children.
Medical coders have in fact relayed that any attempt to code a death due to abortion under abortion yields a “reject message” from the computer programs provided by the National Center for Health Statistics of Washington D.C., a division of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control…”
Read more at http://www.afterabortion.org/PAR/V8/n2/abortiondeaths.html
Posted by: Dhalgren at October 14, 2009 9:22 PM
“So yes, illegal abortion kills women and fetuses.
“Legal abortion usually only kills the fetuses.”
“Now that is the kind of civilized country I prefer to live in.”
————————————————-
Well hello dahlly.
Any kin to the dali lama?
Assuming you do not view ‘women’ as some sort of sub species, what species of ‘fetus’ is usually, but not always, killed by abortion, legal or illegal?
Dhally,
Here is a clue.
What species of embryo/fetus was present in your mother’s uterus when she was pregnant with you?
Most of us here know the answer.
This little syllogism is for your benefit.
yor bro ken