Vote: Biggest vomit line from pro-abort Obama’s speech to school kids today
Barack Obama has never met a pro-abort bill he didn’t love or pro-life bill he didn’t hate, up to and including a bill to rescue abortion survivors from medical staff intent on seeing their mothers’ death wish through.
Or a bill to stop abortionists from suctioning the brains out of half-delivered infants. Michelle Obama went so far as to do fundraising for her husband on that one.
So against that backdrop Obama gave his 2nd speech as president today to children returning to school. There were 3 vomit lines. Vote for the 1 that invokes the biggest gag response:
1. “Nobody gets to write your destiny but you. Your future is in your hands.”
2. “So, what I want to say to you today – what I want all of you to take away from my speech – is that life is precious….”
3. “This is a country that gives all its daughters and all its sons a fair chance. A chance to make the most of their lives. A chance to fulfill their God-given potential.”
[HT: James S.]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I vote for #2!
#2
Hey Adam. I went to school with someone with your same name. By any chance of serendipity, you didn’t happen to attend 8th grade in the state of Michigan, did you?
The second choice is truly sickening. #2 for sure.
Difficult choice – from his mouth, they’re all lies – but #2 probably has to be the most egregious (although considering ‘who’ his god most likely is, #3 comes in an awfully close 2nd!). He definitely fit right in w/ the whole American educational brainwashing agenda… :(
Oh without a doubt it is #2. How absolutely disgusting that this man would say something like that. The question I have was whether he was going off teleprompter when he made that comment or was it actually part of the speech?
I read this to my ten year old daughter. We were actually just discussing your story, Jill. After I read #2, she widened her eyes, twisted up her brow, and said, “Is there something wrong in his head? Like is something screwed up in there? What’s wrong with this guy?”
Everything he says is sickening, but #2 is the worst.
I’m with Stephen. #2 is the worst, but #3 comes real close. Number 1 ain’t great, but the other 2 are definitely worse.
He’d love to sound pro-life so he can play both sides, but we know the TRUTH. He isn’t pro-life.
I vote for #3.
Number 2. Although number 3 is a photo-finish second place.
It’s a toss up. #2 or #3!
With out a doubt #3…..listen carefully, “this is a country”….”God-given potential”???? Really!!
3 is pretty bad, but I’m voting for 2.
I vote for 2 with 3 following closely. Eww.
#3
Jocelyn, your daughter has a good head on her shoulders.
The three statements would be more consistent with his ideology if he had prefaced them with “If your Mama wants you…”, but that wouldn’t have gone over very well with the kiddies or some of the parents.
”God-given potential” is a beautiful thing. Abortion erases that. I’d have to say #3 is the worst comment of the three.
Who could resist the title of your article, Jill…loved it!
Gosh…# 2 & # 3 pretty equally elicit the gag. I think the fact that he invokes the name of God, the very definition of taking the Lords name in VAIN, is pretty vile. But that he could actually use the words “life is precious”…wording found on countless pro-life signs, t-shirts, & bumper stickers when clearly, he doesn’t mean ALL life is precious…only SOME lives are precious…DISCRIMINATION! is just vomit central!
# 2
I can’t beleive he could say any of those lines with a straight face.
No Bama no more !
Absolutely #2.
You people scare me and I’m glad I’m not any of you.
#4- None of the above
3
#2
Number 3 – I mean, ‘god-given’, really!
#3 is infuriating. Maddening beyond words.
#2 — (was the next line, “but only when I say it is?”)
#2 – Life is precious! Only under certain circumstances I guess. Then #3.
It is so close but I think 3 takes the cake because he invokes God’s name. He acts like he gets it with his “God-given potential” statement, that every child has a God given purpose and destiny (remember BHO had a debate at Rick Warren’s church-“The Purpose Given Life” author) but it is all a sham because his allegiance to the Dead Babies R Us crew means this statement is conditional, it just depends whether a child is one of “The Chosen Ones” like BHO who get to live.
BTW how do you “fulfill your God-given potential” if you are DOA (Dead On Arrival), as POTUS you are dedicated to promoting abortion-on-demand who never saw an abortion law you didn’t like and you voted for BAIPA not once, not twice, but three times to guarantee that every woman that wants a dead baby will be sure to get one even if the baby survives a botched abortion. Makes me want to vomit. It is definitely “above my pay grade” to understand how BHO can speak out of both sides of his mouth.
Obama is a consummate liar and what he does thunders so loudly above his head I scarcely hear anything he says.
Geez, I have to choose?? Everything he says is vomit inducing.
Numero dos.
Well I started gagging on # 1 and lost my meal by the time I got to #3!
Anger, spite, hatred, vitriol – you people really are portrayers of peace, love and understanding aren’t you. What an outstanding advertisement for faith.
How many republican presidents have there been since Roe V Wade? Or republican majorities? I note it hasn’t been countermanded in any way. Probably because even the most ardent conservative realizes it would be electoral suicide given that only 23% of the population are against it - according to your stats.
cranium:
“How many republican presidents have there been since Roe V Wade? Or republican majorities? I note it hasn’t been countermanded in any way.”
Perhaps you did not notice that the abortion lobby has the dems in their pocket, preventing any such effort from going anywhere.
The challenge for pro-lifers is to build an invincible majority of pro-life legislators–certainly not an easy task, but we will not back down.
# 3
We know he doesn’t believe in God Given Rights. He’s an anti-semetic, Muslim, Tyrant who worships Allah.
Anger, spite, hatred, vitriol – you people really are portrayers of peace, love and understanding aren’t you. What an outstanding advertisement for faith.
cranium – we’re calling for the President to repent. That means to have a sincere change of heart and make his word consistent with his actions.
There is overwhelming evidence that Barack Obama has consistently lied to his constituents and the American when it comes to the issue of life.
He denied that the Born-alive protection bills presented before the Illinois Senate were the same as the federal wording. He was the chair of the committee that actually passed the identical wording! Then they voted it down. Then he lied about it until National Right to Life called him out on it. The Obama campaign retracted his statements – then went silent.
We are lovers of understanding – true knowledge and understanding, but on this issue understanding and compassion doesn’t mean letting his lying continue. We’ve been told, and we find this to be wise advice – “that by their fruit you will know them”.
The President represents and works for us (we are his boss) we have every right to comment on the content of his character.
If you don’t see lying as wrong – you have a far more serious problem than us.
Cranium, do you even have any idea how the Supreme Court works? Or separation of powers? Besides, all your point seems to be is “you’re in the minority,” as though that determines who’s right or wrong.
Karenena: Nah, I think he’s too narcissistic to believe in any higher power than himself, though he was raised among Muslims and seems to regard that culture higher than he regards Christian culture (as he sees them).
Bobby, I did not go to that school, sorry.
cranium – here’s someone who voted for Obama – but now realizes he lied, and has been lying.
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2010/09/president-obamas-back-to-school-speech.html
Our disgust isn’t merely from his lying – it’s about a media that covers up his lying, and it’s about a portion of the electorate that sees nothing wrong with winning at any cost, including covering up horrible character flaws.
#3. “This is a country that gives all its daughters and all its sons a fair chance. …”
*All* our sons and daughters? … ALL? Um, what about the 1 million+ sons and daughters that are aborted annually? No fair chances for them!
I’ll go with number 2. I think he is really one sinister dude.
#3
Number 2. I don’t understand why so many people worship this man when to me he is no better then Hitler. Hitler murdered the jews. Obama is currently promoting and encouraging the murder of countless innocent babies. No one vote Obama next election!
Hi Cran,
If I say I have no faith can I have an opinion? Pretty please??
Anger, spite, hatred and vitriol…..oh my.
I think these two women cover all of that, Cran. These are your teammates.
https://www.jillstanek.com/2010/09/street-video-when-kids-see-photos-of-aborted-kids-the-principle-of-double-effect/
I’m with you guys, and wish politicians would stop talking about “God” and “God given rights.” Vomit.
Hi Cran,
If I say I have no faith can I have an opinion? Pretty please??
Nice, Carla. :D
I don’t get why atheists (who spew vitriol, etc.) for some reason expect people of faith (which they deem to be from our own imaginations anyway) to be held to a higher (imaginary) standard. It cracks me up. :D I laugh every time an atheist comes to this board telling Christians how we’re supposed to be a certain way because Christianity says so even though they don’t believe an ounce of it. lol What gives??
#2 for me.
Don’t know how Obama can say that with a straight face…I guess lying’s natural to some people…
Kel we are laughing together about “the standard of behavior.”
:)
Number 2 is especially striking. Life is precious. (except when it isn’t?)
karenena
September 15th, 2010 at 1:19 am
# 3
We know he doesn’t believe in God Given Rights. He’s an anti-semetic, Muslim, Tyrant who worships Allah.
———————————————————————————————–
Here here! Agreed!
#2, but I cannot stomach any of them.
He has minimal capacity for honesty and moral consistency.
His pro abortion mentality will never allow him to acknowledge the students who were not in school to hear him, the ones who didn’t make the cut because of abortion. Lives that were coldly deemed not precious and whose destinies were decided for them.
Who really knows, including b o, what b o really believes and what b o really means?
b o’s actions bear close watching but listening to his blathering is a complete waste of time.
The pitiful goverment school kids are subjected to this sort of bovine scatulation and there is probably not one teacher who has the guts to point out the glaring incongruities between what b o said and what b o has actually done.
I’m with you guys, and wish politicians would stop talking about “God” and “God given rights.” Vomit.
Hal – I’ve seen atheists, such as Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins talk about God almost twice as often as some preachers.
God will always be mentioned when there are bullets flying, diseases to be fought, grades to be received, elections to be won.
And – if you really want godlessness – get thee to North Korea or some such place.
Carla, yes of course you can have an opinion – faith or not. Just be aware that an opinion from one with faith isn’t predicated purely on logic and reason that’s all.
‘I laugh every time an atheist comes to this board telling Christians how we’re supposed to be a certain way because Christianity says so even though they don’t believe an ounce of it’ – well Kel, it’s like this. Much of the opinion that people of faith stridently enunciate is underpinned by that faith – their belief in God and scripture. There is a constant stream of ‘you can’t do that’, ‘that’s wrong’ and ‘it’s against God’s word’ – yet this only seems to be applied selectively.
So is it God’s word or not? Is it when it suits you but not when it doesn’t?
Oh, and Jerry, what about when the republicans had the house majority.
Marauder – it obviously doesn’t work in a way that suits you.
I’m with you hal, it has no place in politics.
So is it God’s word or not? Is it when it suits you but not when it doesn’t?
Why do you care?
Just be aware that an opinion from one with faith isn’t predicated purely on logic and reason that’s all.
When you can prove to me scientifically that there ISN’T a God, then perhaps you’ll have a point. Until then, your belief is just as much a faith as mine.
I care Kel, because the beliefs and behaviors that people such as yourself are constantly attempting to entrench in society are based on your faith – yet most lack consistency in their application of that faith.
Gee, Kel, I can’t prove to you scientifically that there isn’t a tooth fairy, or santa clasu, or a flying spaghetti monster. How about some scientific proof that there IS a God?
I’m athiest, I don’t have ‘belief’ – I operate on evidence, reason and logic.
My opinion which has been graciously allowed by Cran is this
I do not believe a word that the Prez sez.
gasp
Would that be anger, spite, hatred or vitriol?
e. none of the above – Carla
the anger, spite, hatred or vitriol was in reference to the language that was used.
‘his allegiance to the Dead Babies R Us crew’
‘Obama is a consummate liar’
‘Everything he says is vomit inducing’
‘he was raised among Muslims and seems to regard that culture higher than he regards Christian culture’
‘he is no better then Hitler’
‘He has minimal capacity for honesty and moral consistency’
‘He’s an anti-semetic, Muslim, Tyrant who worships Allah.’
I would say that those are opinions as well just a bit more colorful.
Your thoughts on Sarah Palin might well be just as colorful eh, Cran? :)
Cranium said – I’m athiest, I don’t have ‘belief’ – I operate on evidence, reason and logic.
That’s actually pretty funny. Are you sure you’re not a comedian?
Hey – this is a test of a joyful life.
(Actually I’m trying out images in the new editing system)
Definintely #3.
Dear God in Heaven shut the mouths of all liars!
cranium
September 15th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
I care Kel, because the beliefs and behaviors that people such as yourself are constantly attempting to entrench in society are based on your faith – yet most lack consistency in their application of that faith.
I don’t believe you and I think you are saying this as a combination smoke-screen and straw man.
Nobody here was talking about religion as a basis for opinion formation until you brought it up. This has been the case in many threads of the threads you’ve entered. But even when people defend their positions using entirely secular arguments, you refuse to answer those arguments purely because the persons employing them are religious. That’s not logic and reason, that’s prejudice and bigotry. We’re none of us impressed.
Depends on your definition of colorful Carla. I would certainly refer to Palin as moronic and a danger to good government and society – but I certainly wouldn’t compare her to someone of the ilk of Hitler. Nor would I refer to her in terms as strong as ‘muslim tyrant’. The woman has the verbal acuity of a drunk octupus trying to knit and about the same level of geo-political knowledge as an illiterate desert herdsman of some sort. I don’t go red in the face and burst a blood vessel over her though.
Keli Hu, I have spoken with some of the good folks here for a while now, on various threads. It is some of those discussions which have demonstrated the extent to which their opinions, beliefs and behaviors – and in fact their belief that other people should be the same – are impacted by their faith. That is why I do refer to it ‘as a basis for opinion formation’.
And when they do use ‘entirely secular arguments’, they support it with ‘evidence’ which isn’t. And I do answer the arguments.
‘smoke-screen’, ‘strawman’, ‘prejudice and bigotry’ – really? Did you know that the 1913 edition of Webster’s describes a bigot as –
A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of
religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or
opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable
or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is
intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in
politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to
his own church, party, belief, or opinion.
and a more modern version – ‘a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions
differing from his own.
Now, let’s see. I’m pretty sure I’ve said that I would never force any of these good
people to have abortions – or engage in a same-sex relationship – or have
pre-marital sex – or not attend church. Yet what is it that they are tring to impose
on society???
It’s a toss up between 2 and 3.
#2 is ironic and sickening but I am more offended by hearing God’s name come off this liar’s lips. I vote #3
I care Kel, because the beliefs and behaviors that people such as yourself are constantly attempting to entrench in society are based on your faith – yet most lack consistency in their application of that faith.
So, if you insult us, we’re supposed to say, “Wow, that was awesome! Thanks!” What? You come here and act like an enormous rear end and expect that the rest of us aren’t going to acknowledge that? We’re supposed to be Pollyanna Princesses, with nary a defensive word? Is that your idea of Christianity and Christ?
Gee, Kel, I can’t prove to you scientifically that there isn’t a tooth fairy, or santa clasu, or a flying spaghetti monster. How about some scientific proof that there IS a God?
That was my point. You can no more scientifically prove that there ISN’T a God than I can prove there IS one.
And thanks for using your usual tact by comparing a genuine belief in a higher power and Creator, to the most outlandish fairy tale ideas you can think of – a fat guy in a red suit (oh, btw, there really was a St. Nicholas), and something atheists all like to call “the flying spaghetti monster.” I mean, you all reference that phrase so often, I’m beginning to wonder if you’ve all met this character someplace.
Nobody here was talking about religion as a basis for opinion formation until you brought it up. This has been the case in many threads of the threads you’ve entered. But even when people defend their positions using entirely secular arguments, you refuse to answer those arguments purely because the persons employing them are religious. That’s not logic and reason, that’s prejudice and bigotry. We’re none of us impressed.
Keli, exactly. It’s amazing how the “religious” among us aren’t the ones bringing up the religious arguments. I’m thinking atheists are a tad obsessed with the idea of God. I dated an atheist once – a loooong time ago. He got really upset every time God came up in conversation. The hilarious thing was, HE was the one who kept bringing up the subject! lol (And today, he’s no longer an atheist. :) )
I don’t think Cranium cares about impressing any of us. He’s far too impressed with himself.
Kel said: I don’t think Cranium cares about impressing any of us. He’s far too impressed with himself.
That’s precisely why I said Cranium is so funny. By definition, atheists declare for certain there is no god. That’s a universal statement – and when it comes to universals in logic, there can be no exceptions. If you use valid reasoning, you’ll come to the conclusion that it’s really a circular argument, because to know there is no god for certain requires omniscience. Omniscience is the god-like power of being all knowing.
So if we take atheists statements as being completely sincere, and deduce their reasoning – the only logical conclusion is that there is no god but themselves, and they believe they don’t exist.
I’ve yet to have any atheist explain how it’s possible to logically hold two dichotomous views at the same time, while also rejecting “belief”. In my book, the ability to hold such ideas is in the realm of New Age (unified theory of God/Creation) or is a sense of Hinduism (massively polytheistic).
How can one hold so many self-refuting ideas, and still claim logic and reason?
Marauder – it obviously doesn’t work in a way that suits you.
Lolz. You noted that no Republican president had overturned Roe v. Wade. I pointed out that separation of powers makes that impossible – the president can’t just toss out a Supreme Court decision. How does stating a fact indicate my opinion one way or another?
Go learn about how American government works before you continue to waste your own time making these nonsensical arguments.
All the more reason to vote for and help finance all true social conservatives in all areas, from local to national.
Cranium,
Have you ever read “Miracles” by C.S. Lewis? It’s brilliant. :)
cranium
September 15th, 2010 at 10:04 pm
First off, no, you don’t answer arguments. You rant. A lot.
Second, quoting one definition from a dictionary printed in 1913 is not going to get you any traction. Frex, dictionary.com defines bigot as “a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.” That, right now, is pretty much you. You seem genuinely bothered by the fact that religious people exist, and that is a problem you need to square with, because it isn’t okay.
Third, you can’t compare anti-abortion activism to bigotry until you can answer the arguments brought up with regards to the civil and human rights issues, as they pertain to the unborn child who is killed in an abortion, satisfactorily and completely. To date, you not only haven’t done so, you haven’t even tried. I would suggest that if you wish to be taken seriously, this is where you need to begin.
Kel, minor point, but the people who believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster are not atheists. That’s their religion. Pastafarian I believe they call it. Not my thing, but I’m not going to slam someone’s theology, especially the peaceful ones.
Thanks for that info, Hal. But I’ve never heard anyone actually SAY “I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.” I’ve only heard that term used by atheists in order to degrade Christians for their beliefs.
http://www.venganza.org/
Oh, they’re real alright. Like I said, i don’t find it a particularly compelling religion. I’ll keep looking, I guess.
“I’ll keep looking, I guess.”
I appreciate that aspect of you, Hal, and I know many others do.
Huh! Well, whaddaya know!
Is there a tooth fairy club and a Santa Claus religion, too? Because if so, we should tell Cranium.
Good morning beautiful people! :-)
‘So, if you insult us, we’re supposed to say, “Wow, that was awesome!’ – not at all Kel. I do expect you to defend your position, all I point out is that much of it is predicated on faith. And the fact is that the more science fiction becomes science fact, there has still not been so much as a glimpse of the face or hand of any deity.
The reason atheists harp on about god is because people of faith use it to justify so much, including attempting to tell others how to live their lives.
‘the only logical conclusion is that there is no god but themselves’ – ah, that one again. Twisting logic does not deliver a valid outcome. There are no deities, and that includes me. I am merely a sentient being who operates on evidence and reason.
‘two dichotomous views’ – uh huh, you wish.
Marauder, you were the one who said that the democrats being in the pockets of the pro-choice crowd was a significant reason for the abortion laws remaining as they are. That’s why I asked why nothing changed when the republicans held the majority.
Keli Hui, I have no argument with the definition you provide. None at all. What you, and at times others, seem to do is selectively read what I’ve said. I have repeatedly made the point that I’m happy for you to live as you wish – my issue is when you insist that others do the same. I’m not forcing you to do something you don’t want to. So why should I allow you to force me to do something I don’t want to?
‘answer the arguments brought up with regards to the civil and human rights issues’ – I simply don’t see that there are any.
There is a vast diversity of faiths Kel. Like the old saying goes – ‘once you understand why you don’t believe in other gods, you’ll understand why I don’t believe in yours.’
And the fact is that the more science fiction becomes science fact, there has still not been so much as a glimpse of the face or hand of any deity.
There are many scientists who would disagree with you – not that you care.
The reason atheists harp on about god is because people of faith use it to justify so much, including attempting to tell others how to live their lives.
Pardon me, but who DOESN’T tell us how we should live our lives? The government, the media, health gurus, religious leaders, shall I go on? Pretending religious people or pro-lifers are the only people in the world who do this is just plain dishonest.
MANY of the pro-life arguments on this site have nothing to do with God. The person who brought God up was YOU. You seem to believe that because we are people of faith, we cannot reason, and can’t provide logical, scientific arguments for the pro-life position. But we can, and we have. You are unwilling to accept them. If you consider most laws against doing harm to others, they have their basis in the belief that human life is of intrinsic value. Where people like to choose to ignore this belief -which runs through our societal laws – is in a situation where someone can be dehumanized in order that someone else might not be inconvenienced. Just because something is a principle of a certain religion doesn’t mean it can’t be true. Have you never found any truth in any world religion, cranium? Not an ounce?
There is a vast diversity of faiths Kel. Like the old saying goes – ‘once you understand why you don’t believe in other gods, you’ll understand why I don’t believe in yours.’
I understand perfectly. It oozes from your every post, and it’s called pride. Many of us (most of us, even), religious and irreligious alike, are guilty of it. And it’s the one thing we almost never believe we have. But for the most part, the people of faith I’ve met on this site typically do not reek of personal pride and religiosity, even though they are religious. There’s a difference.
‘many’ maybe, but still a very small minority. I do care actually. For people to claim to uphold science and agree with it’s basic tenets but then claim belief in a creator is a less than salubrious state of affairs.
‘government, the media, health gurus, religious leaders’ – yes of course they do. But it’s a matter of influence and power over others. An ELECTED government does, that’s what they’re for. Health gurus have no AUTHORITY. Religious leaders vary in the extent to which they ‘lobby’. But the fact that abortion laws are questioned, same sex marriages aren’t yet legal and various messages on ‘morality’ are foisted on the general populace demonstrates that it is certain groups of faith who constantly attempt to mould society to their way of thinking.
‘The person who brought God up was YOU’ – no, it wasn’t. People here have ascribed some of their viewpoints to scripture. All the scientific reasons for not having abortion are discredited. The only point that reamins debatable is whether a fetus has the same intrinsic ‘value’ and ‘rights’ as a born human. My opinion is that it doesn’t, any more than separate sperms and eggs do. While there is an umbilical cord attached, it is potential.
‘Have you never found any truth in any world religion’ – yes I certainly have. The elements of social mores and civil structures which the religions adopted from pre-existing societies.
‘I understand perfectly. It oozes from your every post, and it’s called pride’ – yes, you see, how do you come up with that? Convenience? An attempt to devalue my views? Trying to put me in a defensive position? You know, just because you say it doesn’t make it true.
‘But for the most part, the people of faith I’ve met on this site typically do not reek of personal pride and religiosity, even though they are religious’ – I agree, very much. Mind you, I do detect elements of sanctimoniousness. I also note a small amount of the same type of opprobium that is delivered to Obama. That’s cool.
May the light and power of nature assist you in achieving joy.
“May the light and power of nature assist you in achieving joy.”
As you know Cranium, I claim to be no intellectual. Could you tell me specifically how nature’s power and light will assist me in achieving joy?
Light is necessary for the growth of plants – giving us food to eat both directly and indirectly. Apart from being a necessity, food and drink can also be enJOYed. I don’t recommend overindulgance though, the joy could sour somewhat.
The power of nature enables us to do such things as walk, talk, love, see, learn etc etc. Joy can also be derived from these things.
And there’s much, much more.
For people to claim to uphold science and agree with it’s basic tenets but then claim belief in a creator is a less than salubrious state of affairs.
In your opinion.
But the fact that abortion laws are questioned, same sex marriages aren’t yet legal and various messages on ‘morality’ are foisted on the general populace demonstrates that it is certain groups of faith who constantly attempt to mould society to their way of thinking.
I’m thinking no, it really doesn’t.
‘The person who brought God up was YOU’ – no, it wasn’t. People here have ascribed some of their viewpoints to scripture.
And so you’ve decided to stay here, on a pro-life Christian’s site, and mock. And now you talk about the “power of nature.” Wow. Just… wow.
All the scientific reasons for not having abortion are discredited.
LOL! I love how you state this as if you have science on your side. And you probably wrote that with a straight face, too. Okay, you win, Cranium. Abortion is AWESOME. It doesn’t kill human beings. People of faith are STUPID. We people of faith know nothing and we can’t EVER think scientifically. We bow to your greatness, All-Knowing One, endowed by the “power of nature” with uber-joy. Such an abundance of joy that he seeks out Christian sites in order to spread such joy and a message of hope and life… oh, wait, sorry, NO. Forgot who I was speaking about.
The only point that reamins debatable is whether a fetus has the same intrinsic ‘value’ and ‘rights’ as a born human. My opinion is that it doesn’t
Yes, we’re all aware.
any more than separate sperms and eggs do.
Well, sperm and eggs are reproductive cells. However, when they combine at amphimixis, they become something very different. A new human life with its own unique DNA. But why let science get in the way of your opinion?
While there is an umbilical cord attached, it is potential.
Ah, so you’re cool with this? http://www2.wsls.com/news/2009/dec/15/mother_wont_be_charged_with_babys_death_because_of-ar-366692/
because most people aren’t ok with that. Which is why stuff like this makes the news.
My grandma was hooked up to a ventilator for 5 months before she died. She needed it to survive. Being dependent does not mean you are “potential” life.
‘Have you never found any truth in any world religion’ – yes I certainly have. The elements of social mores and civil structures which the religions adopted from pre-existing societies.
Which ones would those be? Where do you suppose they got their social mores and civil structures?
An attempt to devalue my views?
How’s it feel? Like it?
You know, just because you say it doesn’t make it true.
Yeah, print this line out and post it on your mirror.
Mind you, I do detect elements of sanctimoniousness.
Imagine that. I can’t imagine why anyone would become defensive when their faith is treated as if it’s a belief in the tooth fairy. I don’t base my entire life on the existence of the tooth fairy. So sorry that my silly little belief that humans are valuable is getting in the way of others’ destruction of that life at will. Or maybe it’s not getting in the way at all. What are you complaining about? I know… let’s “off” all the religious people and create a utopia where everyone can have as many abortions as they want, as much illicit sex as they want, with whomever they want!
Oh, gee, WAIT. They can do that NOW. And isn’t it a lovely, happy land of prancing ponies, no disease, no heartbreak, no consequences. I guess maybe those pesky religious people who remind us of what’s good and decent in the world can stay. We won’t kill them yet.
And thank you for the wishes of joy. I have a lot of joy. I get much of my joy from my wonderful husband and beautiful children, who are gifts from the Lord, and from knowing the amazing Lord Who made all things and Who redeemed me from myself by His grace. I don’t know why He loves me, but I’m so glad He does. And despite the fact you don’t believe in Him, cranium, He loves you as well.
Kel, yes it is my opinion.
‘I’m thinking no, it really doesn’t.’ – and that’s your opinion.
What has nature got to do with christianity?
Abortion is not awesome. It exists, it always has and it always will. It is the choice of last resort and it is women’s right to choose.
Some people of faith are stupid. So are some people not of faith. Other people of faith have made a less than logical, rational or evidential choice to believe. That’s their choice. But it’s not mine so don’t try to tell me how to live.
‘Which ones would those be?’ – the ones most of us live by. ‘Where do you suppose they got their social mores and civil structures?’ – not from religion. They developed within societies which became functional and successful.
‘How’s it feel? Like it?’ – no drama, provided there’s at least a scintilla of basis for it.
‘Yeah, print this line out and post it on your mirror’ – actually I might write a book with that as it’s title.
‘I know… let’s “off” all the religious people’ – nah, just tell them to stop interfering in politics and society - ‘and create a utopia where everyone can have as many abortions as they want’ – well they will won’t they, ‘as much illicit sex as they want with whomever they want!’ – see, applying your own judgment again, who says it’s illicit.
‘no disease, no heartbreak, no consequences’ – I think you’ll find all these facets of society existed no matter what the moral paradigm. They just change.
‘I guess maybe those pesky religious people who remind us of what’s good and decent in the world can stay’ – I do not draw the same correlation between ‘religious people’ and ‘good and decent’ that you do.
I’m glad you get joy from whatever gives you joy. So why do you feel the need to prevent me doing the same?
‘He loves you as well’ – that’s just going to have to remain your belief.
nah, just tell them to stop interfering in politics and society
Oh, lol, this is a great line. Even though you just said above that the religious people got many of our social mores, etc, from pre-religious societies, we’re still not legitimate, huh?
Nice to know you feel religious individuals should have no voice in politics or society. Do you have any idea how many religious people have done incredible good in the world because of their faith, or do you simply see faith as a poison? Never mind, I already know…
I’m glad you get joy from whatever gives you joy. So why do you feel the need to prevent me doing the same?
If ripping apart unborn children is what gives you joy, that’s pretty sad. You have come here and decided to basically take the line, “If you don’t like abortion, don’t have one,” which is completely nonsensical, being that abortion is a human injustice. (“If you don’t like slavery, don’t own one! Just stop telling me how to live my life!” “If you don’t like murder, don’t commit one! If you don’t like whale-killing, don’t do it! All kinds of injustices, and we’re not allowed to say or do anything if someone else disapproves?)
And how is it wrong for ME to apply MY judgment to abortion, but NOT wrong for you to apply yours? You are telling us to ignore the slaughter of 3000 unborn children a day (in the US alone). If condemning murder makes us “judgmental” so be it. I’ll stay judgmental. You’ve chosen to poo-poo the scientific fact that abortion takes the life of an innocent human being, whom you deem to be of little to no value. That is poor judgment.
You also come espousing your “facts” about how religious individuals are somehow stunted mentally. And then when someone answers you, you come back ranting about their “diatribes and spiels” and then engage in nothing more than “I know you are, but what am I?” games to the point of nausea.
You have nothing more to add here, and frankly, I’m tired of talking to you. I’ve been asked to now inform you that if you continue to make inflammatory anti-religious comments on this site, you will be banned. Have a nice weekend.
People who believe having abortions is okay and that the fetus is just a lump of cells not a living person need to actually do some research. I have two kids and with both I had ultrasounds done at 7 weeks. At 7 weeks they let me listen to my babies heart beats. I could see their hearts beating in their chests on the ultrasound. I could see their heads and and belly, their limbs starting to form. How is that a lifeless blob? Look at photos of fetal development, look at what develops at each week. My doctor actually asked me if I wanted to abort my child when I found out I was pregnant. I said no. I had my baby and I have a wonderful happy little boy now. If I had said yes, my son would have been killed. He wouldn’t have been born, he wouldn’t now be playing with his toys giggling. How would that not be murder to end his life? I feel such sorrow for all the innocent babies being murdered, ripped from their mothers wombs where they are supposed to be safe. I can’t comprehend how anyone can think this is acceptable.
Hi Cranium,
Was there ever a time you believed in God?
Speckledgoblin,
I’ve dealt with prodeath docs as well. Did you look for another doctor?
Yes Praxedes there was, quite involved in the church I was. I just found it to be unreal, unsupportable and non-evidential. Also hypocritical. I’d better not say any more, I’m ‘on notice’. Funny that, I actually resolved overnight that I would back off on the barbs about religion. What’s that all about?
The point I was making Kel, is that civil and successful societies have existed without religion. I would also point out that there have been many folk who have done good in the world without the auspices of religion.
No Kel, ripping fetuses apart does not bring me joy. The things that bring me joy are knowing that people can live in the relationships they want, with whatever status they wish, that women have true equality everywhere in the world, that the ‘pleasures of the flesh’ not be deemed to be strictly an act of procreation or within marriage, and that women have control over their fertility because that influences their control over their lives.
I’m not applying MY judgment to abortion, that’s the point. The same as I don’t apply MY judgment to who gets married or who has sex.
I truly hope your weekend is one of happiness.
I truly hope your weekend is one of happiness too, Cranium.
Praxedes, unfortunatly I had to keep going to that doctor. Other family members of mine who’ve gotten pregnant were asked the same things by their doctor. Instead of saying congrats, the first thing they ask is do you want to keep it? Then of course farther into the pregnancy they ask if you want an ultrasound to see if there are any defects and if so do you want to abort your baby. It seems society is always trying to push abortion on women. I found it truly horrible that the doctor would say that but I’m from Canada and the city I’m located in has such a doctor shortage that you have to spend years on a waiting list to get one so I had no choice but to stay with that one especially since it seems a lot of the doctors are the same. I’m not saying all, just the various ones my family members have gone too.
Another thing I can’t understand is the ridiculous reasons for abortion. They say oh well this baby has a disorder they’d have a hard life anyway so I’m being merciful by killing it or oh I want a perfectly normal baby so I’ll just kill this one with a disorder or I’ve even heard of many cases where the parents thought oh the baby isn’t the sex I want, I’ll abort it and see if the next one is. I also knew a couple who never used protection when having sex because they said its no fun to use protection, besides she can always have an abortion if she gets pregnant, no big deal. What is with this selfish thinking? Some might say, oh well you have no idea what it is to have a child with a disability, you can’t talk. I do have a child with a disability and I love him with all my heart. He is a happy child who loves life, it would have been an evil crime to deprive him of that. He’s always laughing and having a great time. Just because he has a disorder doesn’t mean he isn’t worthy of living, or that he’s any less important then anyone else in society. My family has also taken care of various people with different disorders and I tell you, often times they seem happier then those of us without. I know a downs lady who is so sweet and finds the greatest joy in little things the rest of us overlook, yet now most down syndrome babies are murdered in the womb. I’ve also heard cases where mothers were told their babies had various disorders and they aborted their babies only to find out that the doctors made a mistake, the baby had no disorder at all but it was too late. I just think if you buy into this abortion, where does it stop? Aborting babies so they aren’t an inconvenience to their families. What’s next, euthanizing the elderly because some families dont want to care for them? Euthanizing anyone with any disorder so they aren’t a “drain” on society? I can see a very scary world in our future if people don’t correct their way of thinking. People need to think, what if it was you in your own mothers womb and she was contemplating murdering you? I’m sure most pro choicers value their life so if it was you in the womb wouldn’t you want people arguing that your life was valuable. That you deserved to live?