Abortionist “Wanted” posters unwanted
My friends at Operation Save America have been distributing “Wanted” posters for 3 North Carolina abortionists. I can’t find any on the web to read, but a screen shot of one posted by CBS says, “Wanted… by Christ to Stop Killing Babies.”
These posters are getting attention in the news, first by Rachel Maddow on October 20…
… and then by Katie Couric at CBS News on October 26…
MSM is comparing “Wanted” posters of the 90s that preceded the murders of specified abortionists to these. My friend Flip Benham of OSA feigns innocence:
It is a blatant attempt to color abortionists as innocent victims of Christian violence and hate. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Abortionists victims? Please. Has the thought ever crossed the hardened heart of an abortionist that this is his self chosen way. He invades the neighborhoods of little children safe in their mother’s wombs and seeks them out to kill them. Talk about violence – my Lord!
How does the mainstream media miss this elephant in the room? It is totally blind to the value of a child’s life. It has become the sworn enemy of God, His precious preborn children, and all who follow hard after Christ.
This [CBS story] is a blatant attempt to use the violence of a very few, to silence the voice of many heralding the Gospel of Christ.
Kyle Drennen at NewsBusters.com took up Pastor Flip’s offense:
The posters in question did not call for any violence whatsoever….Attempting to draw a connection between the flyers and past murders of abortion doctors, Miller pointed out: “In the 1990s, similar flyers were distributed in other cities. Then came the murders. In 1993, Pensacola Dr. David Gunn and Dr. George Patterson in AL. Dr. John Britton was gunned down a year later in FL. All were targets of the wanted poster campaign.”
“Wanted” posters likely don’t tip the scale in the mind of a person contemplating killing an abortionist.I ask Pastor Flip and OSA to step back and recognize these sorts of posters can’t help. I believe wholeheartedly in free speech, but these come close to yelling “Fire!” in a theater.
And no, this is not comparable to my posting screen shots of websites of late-term abortionists last year who on the one hand were claiming to fear for their lives following Tiller’s murder and on the other advertising their addresses, clinic photos, and photos of selves on the Internet. I was merely demonstrating their hypocrisy.
I frankly couldn’t care less if abortionists are paranoid. And I certainly don’t think we should curtail our assertive activism and picketing.
But we do need to exercise some common sense and avoid purposefully feeding the frenzy, which I think Pastor Flip knows in his heart of hearts he is doing, even by the font he chose.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Go Pastor Flip!!!!!!!
I could not disagree with you more
Is Rachel Maddow’s incessant barrage against pro-lifers “creating a climate of hate,” whereby she pushes some anti-religious, pro-abortion fanatic over-the-edge into taking matters into his own hands and strikes violently at a pro-life pregnancy center or organizations headquarters?
It makes me sad when abortionists are murdered because it makes all of us who are pro-life look like lunacy fringe nutcases. I believe what they are doing is wrong, but I believe these types of posters call out the lunacy fringe to actions that are unwanted, illegal, and just plain wrong. It is so much better if you can win people over to the right side, and if not, then pounce and press charges asap. But murder, in any way shape or form, is just murder. Murdering abortionists is no righter than the murders they commit on a daily basis. It just makes for wild news stories that make us all look bad. It is people like Jill who are making the real changes in the world because she saw the wrongness, it changed her heart and her mind, and she went into action on the right side. Thx for making a difference, Jill!
Debbi,
Are all of us the lunatic fringe though? People understand nutcases. People know that one nutcase can act alone. The nutcase was WRONG!
Are you blaming prolifers for the actions of a nutcase?
Every major prolife organization DENOUNCED Tiller’s killer the very same day it happened.
The proaborts paint us all with the same lunatic brush but is that the truth?
I agree with Jill. The way that you frame information makes a difference, and while I wouldn’t say that these posters are “wrong,” they certainly do imply some unsavory things.
I also agree that this is different from posting screenshots of information freely advertised on the web, for exactly the same reason. The way you present things matters. Drawing attention to hypocrisy as you did is a far cry from putting up a wanted poster.
Aside from the “dead or alive” association, wanted posters imply an authoritative origin. One that has the power to declare someone a criminal and to administer justice when that person is caught. OSA is not such an authority, nor should they style themselves that way. It is a horrible, horrible thing that our government does not hold abortionists to account for the awful things that they do. But especially now, with a majority of America calling itself pro-life and with young people more and more likely to be pro-life, that should only encourage us to put more pressure on the government to listen to the voice of the people. This smacks of…vigilantist ideations, although not actual vigilantism, to be fair.
I can’t see how this is a good idea.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you refer to “feeding the frenzy”. We all agree that our message needs to be heard, but there is a huge audience of people out there who will SHUT US OUT if we start posting wanted posters, overusing the “murderer” moniker, or mindlessly use graphic abortion photos, etc. There’s no reason to withhold the message, but KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE. Also, KNOW that there are people out there who will twist our words – KNOW that some words and actions are easier to twist than others. Most importantly, KNOW that the benefits of some of these actions (increased awareness of abortionists’ actions) may not outweigh the benefits (risking going to jail for soliciting murder).
I frankly could care less if abortionists are paranoid.
You mean you couldn’t care less. Sorry, this is a pet peeve.
As far as the substance of the article, I agree. They have the right to free speech, but they had to have known that this approach would harm more than help.
Very well said, Jill. I 100% agree with you. Thanks for trying to persuade Flip to stop using these. They’re doing more harm than good.
When Tiller was killed there wasn’t really any big public outrage because MOST PEOPLE acknowledge that a late-term abortionist is murdering babies and deserves to be killed as a matter of basic justice. Also, those goofy girls out there who always talk about “karma” have no problem with a mass baby murderer being killed. Hey, its karma and its a bitch sometimes. You know those sort of girls, right?
Anything that shows more people WHO THE BABY MURDERERS ARE and WHERE THEY ARE MURDERING THOSE CHILDREN is an inherently good thing. If a few abortionists end up getting killed by some “off balance” “wackos” or whatever you want to call them to distance them from the mainstream pro-life movement that’s an unintended consequence that no one has any actual control over.
One more thing. You can also make a comparison here to those websites and those laws that let people know WHERE convicted sex offenders live. You could surely make the same charges against making their information known to the public as you are here in response to those wanted posters. Do you propose that that information is a bad thing or makes those of us who are anti-rape “look bad” because giving that information to the public might lead to a convicted sex offender being killed?
I made this WANTED poster for Obama for promoting infanticide @ 20 months ago
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1516/wantedforpromotinginfan.jpg
“When Tiller was killed there wasn’t really any big public outrage because MOST PEOPLE acknowledge that a late-term abortionist is murdering babies and deserves to be killed as a matter of basic justice”
Deserved to be killed as a matter of basic justice? Anyone disagree with this statement?
Hal @ 2:31 PM,
I certainly disagree with that statement and I believe 99.99% of pro-lifers do too. There was A LOT of public outrage in the pro-life community over Tiller’s murder. I think these “wanted” posters are inappropriate and inflammatory, definitely the product of a SELECT FEW.
Jill, thank you for saying this. It’s just not that hard to protest abortion without making WANTED posters of people who actually have been targeted for murder. (Honestly, I don’t agree that abortion providers are “paranoid” — it’s not like they don’t have real reasons to worry.) OSA has absolutely no excuse for not knowing better.
Janet, me too. At least I really, really hope the “select few” is true. I know that they are, at least, vastly outnumbered by peaceful prolifers.
Cranky Catholic, I think some — some! — abortion opponents do create a “climate of hate.” It really has resulted in murders, and it really does need to be talked about. Claiming that every pro-lifer is part of that would be very wrong, of course.
When Tiller was killed there wasn’t really any big public outrage because MOST PEOPLE acknowledge that a late-term abortionist is murdering babies and deserves to be killed as a matter of basic justice.
Hal, I strongly disagree with Ezek1319 and these posters, and it makes me upset when abortionists are murdered not only because it makes us all look nuts, its just WRONG!!!! As much as I oppose abortion, two wrongs NEVER make a right.
I believe in changing hearts and minds, and stuff like this makes our job much harder.
I met ONE prolifer (not really prolife) who thought violence against abortion clinics was okay — he even supported the Army of God. He hinted that he might become involved in some violent act, and I told him in no certain terms I would turn him in. I lost contact with this person, and thankfully, there hasn’t been any violence against abortion providers in this area in some time. Please folks, remain peaceful and nonviolent!
Well, what about the Stonewall riots? Those rioters tried to burn police officers alive, and Obama declared June National Gay Pride Month or something in order to commemorate them. It seems to me that Maddow et al. have no problems with the unlawful use of arson and lethal force, when it’s done in the name of a cause they support. So why should we?
Is anyone going to comment on the comparison I made to these wanted posters and convicted sex offenders who are put on a public registry where people can know who they are and where they live?
Either you have a problem with both of those or you don’t.
@ Ezek1319
No, that isn’t the case. Your comparison is flawed in several ways, all of which are obvious if one stops to think for two seconds. However, to briefly mention a few:
1) Abortion providers are dangerous like spiders, sex offenders are dangerous like wolves. The sex offender goes to get their victims, the abortionist waits for his victims to come to him. Both are dangerous, but in different ways.
2) Sex offenders do not “go in to work” on sex offending. They look, to the naked eye, like every other member of a community. Abortionists, on the other hand, hold a job that marks them out as what they are. Extra warnings are redundant.
3) As far as we know, there is no “cure” for sexual predation. Once a sex offender, always a sex offender. It’s like alcoholism. Based on past evidence, there is a cure for abortionists.
And, not a reason that the situations are different, but worth noting all the same, not everyone is okay with sex offender registries. I’m a bit wishy-washy on the subject myself. And for precisely the reasons you mentioned: it exposes people–people who’ve done horrible things, but people–who may be living entirely peacefully to danger from others who are frightened. Sex offenders who manage to control themselves and live peaceably once they’ve served time ought not to be disturbed for doing so.
@ Austin Nedved
It seems to me that Maddow et al. have no problems with the unlawful use of arson and lethal force, when it’s done in the name of a cause they support. So why should we?
Because, simply put, we are better than Maddow and Obama. Rachel Maddow is a hardcore leftist ideologue whose TV show hit the ratings rock bottom and then began mining operations, and that’s before we get into her pro-abortion views. Obama voted against guaranteeing the lives of abortion survivors, several times…and that’s before we get into the portions of his record that aren’t abortion related.
Clearly these two are not people from whom we should take our cues about what is or isn’t acceptable behavior in accomplishing a political goal. I’m sure we can find much better role models to emulate. Much, much, much better.
I’m in favor of the sex offender registries. It helps me to know if any move into my area, especially since I have kids, that’s important to me.
At my former church, we also had several guys who used to creep the girls out by staring, leering, and stalking. We found out why when we looked them up on the sex offender registry… :( Most of these guys are in NO WAY reformed. Just my 2 cents.
Keli Hu, I agree with your #1 analogy for the most part, though I don’t think we can pin them down to just being “spiders.” A lot of them seem to snap mentally and do things that are just… out there. Abusing women, storing fetal parts in the refrigerator… ugh. I think killing innocents has a definite effect on people.
Deserved to be killed as a matter of basic justice? Anyone disagree with this statement?
If we agreed with it, wouldn’t we say so, Hal? It’s pretty trollish of you to pick the most extreme commenter here and ask us to “disagree” with him, as if you don’t already KNOW our stance. You were here when Tiller was murdered and you know the response of 99% of the pro-lifers here.
People, if we have to constantly rehash this and apologize for crazies we’ve already condemned, we’re gonna be on the defense forever. We’ve already condemned Roeder and others like him (most of us have, anyway), and Hal, you KNOW this.
And just for the record, I don’t think these “wanted” posters help. Especially not if they contain personal addresses, etc, of abortionists. Sexual predators are one thing, but abortionists are currently (and unfortunately) operating freely in this country because abortion is legal.
“Vengeance is MINE,” says the LORD, “I will repay.” Nobody should be taking matters into their own hands. That is unacceptable and those murderers are “playing God” just as much as the abortionists themselves, IMO.
I don’t think you are nutcases! I find some of you are a bit deluded. A few are very badly informed. Some are less than honest in the ‘facts’ provided. Selective about what truths you ‘see’. Deliberately obtuse to certain realities. But not nutcases.
If we look at the range of anti-choicers on a bell curve, most would fit in the main body, the ones who undertake activities such as this site would be on the perimeter of the main body. Tiller’s killer would be right out on the extreme and people such as Ezek1319 are outside the main body but not as extreme as Tiller’s killer.
Kel, so right. We do not condone murder. If we did, we’d be no better than the abortionists. Fringe elements do exist in many movements, not just pro-life. It makes the abortionists feel better to believe we are all nuts. It makes them feel better, but it is not true. However, it encourages me that so many abortionists fool themselves; they are blind to the trend that is going against them. They are blind to how many young people are pro-life.
Cranium, thank you. I appreciate what you said. I’ll even give you a pass on calling us anti-choicers, ;>) !
Is that what is referred to as ‘damned with faint praise’, from both of us? :-)
‘They are blind to how many young people are pro-life’ – until they suffer a ‘whoopsie’, then some will change their minds. And so it will go on.
I like the wanted posters, after all, these are criminals we’re talking about here..
*sigh* Abortionists are not criminals. What abortionists do every day is sadly legal, thus they are within the law. Certainly some abortionists have been caught breaking the law in other ways, violating statutory rape reporting guidelines, etc. Let’s just remember to keep some clearheadedness to this debate.
”the ones who undertake activities such as this site would be on the perimeter of the main body.”
And what about the ones who continuously visit those of us who undertake activities such as this site? What about those who continue to comment here in attempts to save us poor, simple prolifers from our delusions, dishonest behaviors, truth selections, misinformed consciences and deliberate obtusions to reality?
Seems to me that anyone who thinks they have a chance in hell of correcting all the problems you accuse us of are the real nutcases.
“What abortionists do every day is sadly legal, thus they are within the law.”
it depends what law you’re talking about, If you’re talking about the false, sham, US law made by man then yes, you’re correct, if you’re talking about God’s law, you’re mistaken terribly
Praxedes, the pro-choice bell curve would be very similar. And yes, I would fall into the same area as you do on yours. People like Nick G would be our Ezek1319, but you may have more ‘Tiller killers’.
I’ve said before, my main aim is to prevent visitors being misled or ill-informed if they are yet to make up their minds. Some of you may be swayed from extreme approaches to the topic but….
And if your case is so strong you would be glad I’m here to reinforce it by trying to critique it.
Gees Jasper, ‘god’s law’ doesn’t seem to be adhered to very well by many people at all. It really isn’t that significant in terms of the world’s population now is it.
So, if these posters were put up all over the place and it didn’t have the word WANTED at the top would Stanek and others think they are good? Just posters that share the info of those who murder babies each week and nothing more?
Kind of nauseating to read someone saying that abortion is “legal” so its not a “crime”. Makes me think back to defenders of Nazi Germany executing Jews “legally”.
sigh
And if your case is so strong you would be glad I’m here to reinforce it by trying to critique it.
Please know cran that I am personally glad and thankful that you are here. Not because the prolife case needs reinforcing because the Truth is the Truth but for other reasons you don’t yet understand.
Don’t Give Up.
Good heavens… Cranium, if you keep this sort of moderately civil discussion up, I’ll have to upgrade you to “ex-troll”! Will wonders never cease…
:-)
I do try, but I may slip sometimes.
And if your case is so strong you would be glad I’m here to reinforce it by trying to critique it.
I wouldn’t necessarily call it critiquing. You simply say things like, “Well, that may be YOUR belief, but others have DIFFERENT beliefs.” Durrr, really??? As if that proves anything whatsoever. Furthermore, if our beliefs happen to be opposite, then one of us must be incorrect. All beliefs are not equal. Even YOU believe that, obviously, since you’re so fond of mocking our belief in our “imaginary sky friend.” You believe your outlook is more rational and superior to our own, not merely “different,” correct? And you apparently believe the absolute statement “there is no God” to be true. But when it comes to abortion, you pull the “everything is relative” card.
There are more people on the planet who believe in a god as opposed to those who do not. Does that mean those who believe in a god are “right” since they’re the majority, in your opinion? Or are you just more enlightened in that case?
Now now Kel, don’t be like that.
I only refer to beliefs when others state them as their case. Apart from that you know very well we cover science, statistics, medicine, psychology and even a bit of (yuk) philosophy.
You know I have toned down my mocking of deism. I only respond to it if people do things such as cite scripture.
Yes my outlook is more rational and, to the extent that it is correct, superior. Yes, there is no deity of any type or form. I don’t see how your ‘everything is relative’ reference is applicable. It is factual that people are people and have different viewpoints, opinions, needs and motivations. And when it comes to abortion, it is people making the choices.
I dispute your claim that more people on the planet believe in a god than don’t. And yes, I am more enlightened, although I’m not sure that that is the word I would use.
:P
Kelsey, 1:46p: Hey, I’m all about grammatical pet peeves. Thanks for pointing that one out. Will fix and hope to remember next time.
Ezek: I’ve been thinking about that very question since yesterday. If a poster doesn’t have the word “Wanted” on it, would I be ok with it? I think if properly worded, yes. I myself leafletted a church to let parishioners know the upstanding doctor among them was an abortionist at Christ Hospital. I also think it’s fine to picket the homes of abortionists. No justice, no peace. Their neighbors should know. It all depends on the framing and contents of the message.
cranium,
I’ve asked a few times and no response. To your mind it seems that abortion and euthanasia are two very different realities, with no common link. You espouse abortion and do not speak of euthanasia
For Pl’ers the ‘commonality’ is the termination of HUMAN rights. For many PC’ers, it seems there is a case-by-case mentality. Is this commonality for real? Are there HUMAN rights? Is my life (my existence) contingent on the will/whims of another? There is much money to be made by disposing of HUMAN UNWANTED? Is there a line for you?
I dispute your claim that more people on the planet believe in a god than don’t. And yes, I am more enlightened, although I’m not sure that that is the word I would use.
Hmm . . . I would say the Western world is becoming more secular, especially Europe, but not so much the developing world. I understand that the Catholic church is growing in sub-Saharan Africa — there’s quite a few missionaries from Ireland, for some reason.
I also read an interesting article about the Roma people in Europe, who are undergoing a Christian revival, despite the fact that they are treated quite badly.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/article_print.html?id=89921
Jill, thank you and God bless you for your work. I am blessed to be a small part of this crusade as a Catholic school religion director and a long-time activist. I see your argument as flawed precisely because it is too rational and decent. You suppose that by toning down our rhetoric, it will discourage people who are irrational and indecent enough to kill babies from misrepresenting us. If we were out there handing out roses to abortionists, the headline would read that we were swinging thorny sticks at their hands in an effort to assault them. The lies and persecution are inevitible, and so we must not let this sort of mass manipulation affect us. Remeber, they even found a way to twist the words of Christ into an accusation that led to his arrest and execution. I see nothing remotely wrong with those posters and hope that the group continues. Newspapers print the names, faces, and addresses of people arrested for crimes daily and no one seems to mind.
It was love that brought me to realize how I needed to love. I don’t see how these posters are effective – other than feeding hate to fight hate. I see these posters and don’t see Christ doing this at all – it grieves me to think that they use His name in vain. Why aren’t we loving these people? Why aren’t we praying for these people? Building relationships with these people? Showing them what love is so that in turn they will love? We’ve missed the whole point here. We cry out “Give them what they deserve!” instead of “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
Hi John. Yes I do support euthanasia. Deciding to end ones own life is not a ‘termination of human rights’.
I see forcing a woman to prolong an unwanted pregnancy to be ‘termination of human rights’.
Thanks for addressing something substantive that I brought up Jill.
Does that guy that runs Christ Hospital still go to your church? Has your church ever put any pressure on him to confirm no abortions are done at Christ Hospital?