Fetal pain bills sweep across US: Pro-aborts afraid to challenge

Leading up to last year’s passage in Nebraska of a law banning abortion after 20 gestational weeks because preborn babies feel pain by that age, pro-aborts claimed it was “flatly unconstitutional,” and they would challenge it in court.

But they didn’t.

The Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act breaks new legal ground. It confronts prior US Supreme Court decisions that only at viability can laws be passed to stop abortion, and it also contains no health exception, also a prior SC mandate.

Now we’re seeing pro-aborts in Kansas repeat their impotent sabre rattling re: its just-passed fetal pain law, which pro-life Gov. Sam Brownback is anticipated to sign April 13. According to the Wichita Eagle on March 30:

Planned Parenthood officials also said they think the ban on abortions in the 22nd week of pregnancy [from date of last menstrual period] is clearly unconstitutional, but the KS chapter is unlikely to challenge it in court until similar laws are tested elsewhere.

“PP of KS does not provide abortion at that point in pregnancy, so PP would not have standing to challenge the law at this point,” [Rachel] Sussman [PP senior policy analyst] said. “As other states consider abortion bans, we will be considering all of our options and a range of strategies, including litigation.”

It appears PP et al may have plenty of opportunities to consider all of their options. Fetal pain legislation is now in play all over the place.

I spoke this morning with National Right to Life’s State Legislative Director, attorney Mary Balch, the architect of the fetal pain law, who gave me a run-down of the action…

  • Alabama: On the floor of the House; not yet presented in the Senate
  • Idaho: Passed the Senate; 3rd reading in the House today; Gov. Otter has said he will sign but time running out for this session
  • Indiana: Thought was dead but resurrected 5 days ago; imperfect version passed House; will try to fix in the Senate but time running out for this session
  • Iowa: Passed House; working the bill in the Senate
  • Oklahoma: Passed the House; on the floor of the Senate – anticipating a vote any day; should become law
  • Massachusetts: Has been introduced

Fetal pain legislation was also introduced in Florida and Georgia this year but didn’t make it very far – this time.

Planned Parenthood is now touting a Nebraska couple as evidence fetal pain laws are inhumane. ABC News, for instance, ran a story on March 14 with the grueling title, “Danielle Deaver denied abortion even as uterus crushed fetus.” It included PP’s 10 minute video interview with them, which it would behoove pro-lifers to watch…

Without knowing the specific facts of Danielle’s pregnancy, I was concerned Danielle and her husband were given tragically bad medical advice based on the details they gave.  I was not the only one. Dr. Sean Kenney, a maternal-fetal medicine specialist, wrote an op ed in the Omaha World-Herald on March 14 expressing the same concern.

The bottom line is that the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act is simply meant to protect the preborn child’s right to life. Unforeseen circumstances don’t lessen that right to life. We can empathize with parents in heartbreaking situations. But our responsibility as a society is to help them deal with the life of that child and not offer a quick fix – killing that child.

51 thoughts on “Fetal pain bills sweep across US: Pro-aborts afraid to challenge”

  1. 8,338 babies lost their lives last year in Kansas–1 after 22 weeks. And we spend the entire session on the Fetal Pain Bill. Personhood Now!

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  2. My question: What does Planned Parenthood have to do with any of this? WHY are they the source of this interview and video?

    “The doctor’s laid her in my arms. She was breathing; her heart was beating.” Sounds like they were given the ability to hold her, as a whole rather than torn to pieces.

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  3. It sounds to me like Danielle was requesting induction, not an abortion, but the doctor advised that the “fetal pain bill” prohibited induction – is this true, or were they given false information? There are babies that have survived birth at 22 weeks so why would induction be prohibited? Some of the other information they were given sounds blatantly biased if not downright false from everything I know.

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  4. It’s like the no “sharia law” bills that were passed outlawing something that is already outlawed by the constitution…

    The “sharia” of the American anti-choice movement is certainly on a par with that of “Sharia.” Rather than stoning, they want women dying in back alley abortions. Even Islam allows abortion up to a  point!

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  5. I blogged myself about how fishy that Nebraska couple’s story is.

    http://realchoice.blogspot.com/2011/03/nebraska-forced-to-watch-baby-die-story.html

    It’s just like abortion advocates to pick some sad woman and hide behind her skirts when her story is so tenuously connected to the thing they’re attacking that it borders on the absurd — like the Pennsylvania state congresswoman who argued against the Pennsylvania Abortion Control Act by sobbing about how she’d experienced intrauterine fetal demise and how “this law would have forced me to carry my dead child inside my body”. Lady, you had a miscarriage. Treating a miscarriage isn’t an abortion. Are you naturally that clueless or is it deliberate?

    This couple’s story was about a doctor’s failure to handle maternal/fetal medicine appropriately, and had no more to do with abortion laws than it had to do with calibration of x-ray machines.

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  6. “Fetal pain legislation was also introduced in Florida and Georgia this year but didn’t make it very far – this time.”
     
    You know a piece of legislation is really out there when it’s too much even for a state like Georgia.

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  7. She couldn’t pray for the baby to die but she could choose to have her ripped apart…THAT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE TO ME!!!  i read the article by Dr. Sean Kenney and I was shocked.  Why wouldn’t her doctors do everything??  Why was everyone dooming this baby without trying everything they possibly could??

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  8. I’m pretty sure it’s not controversial that unborn children beyond 20 weeks can feel pain.  But of course, the pro-aborts like to deny basic scientific facts.

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  9. LittleZ,

    I realize that I’m intruding on your Flat Earth Society meeting, but denying an abundance of scientific evidence in the 21st Century really makes you look small. You deny the existence of such literature, so I need to ask:

    Where have you looked and what search terms have you used?

    Now, honestly LittleZ, don’t you think it silly to claim the proabort AMA doesn’t recognize evidence of fetal pain when the same coconuts don’t accept the position in Embryology that a new human comes into existence at fertilization. I don’t really mind that you are so vile as to champion tearing babies apart. To each his own and all that…

    But really, you just look like a rube…

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  10. “simple minded Tea-baggers of this country”

    I would expect knuckle dragging from a troll, but there are those to whom we must give the benefit of the doubt because they are obviously slow to catch on. So here is a news flash: on this blog (as opposed to the low life pro-abort blogs where you find inspiration), the term is “tea party”.

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  11. OK, color me innocent (well, sorta…), but I’ve heard a lot about the derogatory usage of the term “tea-baggers” but I don’t know what that term actually means.  Anyone care to explain it?  :-p
    Also, isn’t there a procedure called amnioinfusion that is supposed to treat PROM (premature rupture of membranes)?  What DID they do to help the baby?  Anything?  They could have done SOMETHING to help the child so that she could at least stay in the womb until she were developed enough to be born.  She was almost there!  >:-(

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  12. Army_Wife, suffice to say that “Teabagger” is an extremely vulgar sexual reference.  If you want to know exactly what it means, go to urbandictionary.com and type it in there.  It is unbelievable that representatives of the Democratic Party and members of the media have used and continue to use this term to verbally abuse members of the Tea Party.

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  13. Ok, I don’t get it.
     
    Judging from the video this case has NOTHING to do with abortion or Planned Parenthood. Mrs. Deaver asked for an induction (not for an abortion), and her doctor says … the law prevents him from doing so, so “go home and wait?” Did the doctor totally misunderstand the irrelevance of the NE law? Or did Mrs. Deaver misunderstand her doctor’s advice?

    Then the child is born. So did the doctor do everything he could to save their daughter?
     
    How did the NE law have anything to do with the Deaver’s case? Is Planned Parenthood editing out important facts of the Deaver’s case?

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  14. LittleZ and other assorted Pigs. Anyone using this slang (teabagger) in the future will be subject to banishment from the blog. Fair warning.

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  15. Why a capital “P” for pigs there Gerard?
     
    I must admit that whilst I haven’t used the term myself, I always associated the term you identified (incorrectly spelt bt the way) with people of the Tea Party even though I am aware there is also an obscene attribution of the term.

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  16. Reality,

    Thanks for pointing out the second g being missing.

    Capital “P” because I wish to  show respect for the class of animals who unfortunately have been saddled with these poor excuses of members of our species.

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  17. “and it also contains no health exception.”
    Ah, what a victory for womenkind. Nice job folks.

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  18. Um, wow.  I’m surprised that so many politicians are getting away with using that term… repeatedly… in public.  What would happen if a conservative called a liberal a similar name?  I think we already know the answer to that – they’d be (figuratively) keel-hauled.

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  19. You’re a self-pronounced exponent of science Gerard. On what criteria do you assign certain people as Pigs?

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  20. “Hail the tea bag, weapon of terror”

    Author:  Wesley Pruden, editor emeritus, Washington Times

    Date:  April 17, 2009

    Photo:  Tea bag and Pig

    “The tea-baggers seem to be authentically nonpartisan; several tea parties pointedly declined offers by Republican officials, notably Michael Steele, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, to speak at rallies. “We’ve heard enough already from politicians,” one California tea-bagger said. The lowly tea bag threatens to become a weapon of righteous terror.”
     
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/17/hail-the-tea-bag-weapon-of-terror/

    Gerard, you might want to take the usage problem up with Wesley Pruden, editor emeritus of one of the most distinguished conservative news publications in the United States, seeing as how he helped introduce the term.

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  21. Before I say this, please hear very clearly that my heart breaks for this couple. I stand quietly with them in their grief and this is in no way intended to be a criticism of them.

    Suppose that their pregnancy with baby Elizabeth had progressed normally, and instead, it was their older son who had received the fatal diagnosis. Imagine that they had been told that their son only had a few months to live, that there was only a 3% chance he could recover, and that whatever happened, he faced a huge uphill battle, and then ten days later, he tragically passed away in their arms.

    Can anyone imagine that they would now be arguing that those ten days were so agonizing that they had wished he could have been killed at the time of the diagnosis?

    I wonder instead if they would have cherished every last second they had with their darling child, seeing each moment as a gift, searching for every last opportunity for a cure, and for opportunities to make memories and let him know how deeply they loved him, holding on to hope until his very last breath.

    Let’s see how they feel in years from now, when they have had time to reflect on their loss, and hopefully find some meaning in all the pain. I wonder if they will one day realise that an induction abortion would not have spared them any pain, and would have likely caused them more, as they would now be wondering if their daughter actually might have beaten the odds if they had left the pregnancy alone.

    Ten, twenty, thirty years on, the pain loses it’s edge, but the guilt and “what-ifs” only grow stronger. I am thankful that in the midst of this unspeakable loss, they are spared that agony.

    SHAME SHAME SHAME on PP for exploiting their grief.

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  22. mp, could you explain to me what part of “They are called the Tea Party, not tea-baggers” you don’t understand?  No Tea Party leader has ever referred to the Tea Party as the “tea-baggers”.  It is purely a mocking, lewd, pejorative and it has no place in legitimate political discussion.

    It is beyond my comprehension that a member of the Democratic Party could be OUTRAGED by his party being called the “Democrat Party”, but could turn around and with full knowledge of the vulgar sexual connotation use the word “tea-bagger” to attack what is probably the only truly grassroots political movement in America.

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  23. “You’re a self-pronounced exponent of science Gerard. On what criteria do you assign certain people as Pigs?”

    Reality,

    Jesus cautioned us not to cast our pearls before swine, as they will only trample them underfoot. I could explain the criteria, but I doubt you’d comprehend.

    Jesus was right.

    And I’m not a self-pronounced proponent of science. I defended a doctoral dissertation before a committee of Ph.D.’s who then pronounced me a peer.

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  24. “mp, could you explain to me what part of “They are called the Tea Party, not tea-baggers” you don’t understand?  No Tea Party leader has ever referred to the Tea Party as the “tea-baggers”.  It is purely a mocking, lewd, pejorative and it has no place in legitimate political discussion.”
     
    I was totally unaware that “teabagger” also refers to sexual acts until I saw your April 4, 9:28 PM, comment and read the definition to which you referred at urbandictionary.com.  So how can one refer to members of the Tea Party?
     
    “Teapartier?”  No, that won’t work.  That’s teabagging by three or more people.
     
    “Tea Party?”  Well, here’s what urbandictionary.com says:

    (n.) 1. A disillusioned group of U.S. citizens that blindly oppose whatever legislative and/or government policy they perceive as being leftist, but said legislation/policy is actually in their own best interest.

    2. Unknowing puppets of capitalist corporations and their congressional silent partners used to derail any progressive movement in the US government and/or society.

    I won’t quote any other definitions because it gets worse from there.

    John, what do you suggest?

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  25. There doesn’t need to be a ‘health exception’ because there exists not a single medical condition that requires a late term abortion, instead, ifthe mother has one of a very few conditions that makes pregnancy difficult or dangerous for her health to maintain or continue the baby can be delivered alive, either vaginally or c-section. The survival outcomes for a 20-22 week baby are slim, yes, but at least it gives baby a fighting chance, abortion has no ‘slim chance’ or ‘fighting chance’ it just kills the baby, for no medically necessary reason! A mother is free to give her child to the state, so a woman who seeks a late term abortion obtains what she wants, to not be pregnant and to not care for a child, while the child has a fighting chance at life, be that life happy, sad, good, bad, long, short, etc, it has a chance and is no longer the mothers concern. The ONLY reason to abort a late term pregnancy is if there exists the mindset of ‘if I can’t have it, no one can’.

    I read about this couple weeks ago when it happened, they appear tol have been given no medical treatment or help and criminally incorrect information by their doctor (as reported in the original article). I hope they get some real help, and I hope the doctor loses his license!

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  26. mp, I suggest you call them what they call themselves – “Members of the Tea Party”, or “Tea Party patriots”.  But if you insist on intentionally using vulgar and derogatory names for political groups, I’m sure I can find some fun names for the Democratic Party on Urbandictionary.com so that you can be consistent.

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  27. “But if you insist on intentionally using vulgar and derogatory names for political groups, I’m sure I can find some fun names for the Democratic Party on Urbandictionary.com so that you can be consistent.”
     
    And here I was, thinking that “political correctness” was a sort of left wing, Democrat thing.  I guess not.
     
    Sorry.

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  28. Back in dinosaur times, we were taught that newspaper stories had to be unbiased, except on the editorial page. But that was when Mrs. Harrison also sent us outside to “beat the erasers.”  You young kids with your dry erase boards don’t know what I’m talking about, you whippersnappers!  Telephones had cords, and we walked uphill in the snow…

     Well, life has a way of showing us differently.   I can always spot the bias in articles, especially if they use the wrong tea-name on purpose or the ever-ubiquitous “anti-choice.”

    I wish I had made note of the link to a great article that broke down the use of certain phrases published in the mainstream media during the year(s) preceding the last presidential election.  For example, the word “rockstar” was used next to “Obama” over 120 times!  Occaisionally Saturday Night Live pokes fun at media bias, but they for sure aren’t as edgy as the original “Not Ready for Prime Time Players.”

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  29. This is false of what the doctors can do! I was watching the baby story and sitution like this happen 20 weeks along and the doctor made her stay in the hospital until she reached 35 weeks she was on stricted bed rest. she deliverd a healthy baby.

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  30. That doctor could have delivered the baby via c-section, right?  I don’t think there’s anything in the law which would have prevented that. Keep up the great work Nebraska!

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  31. http://www.acog.org/departments/govtrel/20060926ACOGPositionStatementHB1215-2.pdf
    Actually Jespren, you’re patently wrong. See above ACOG statement. While arguably rare in a country with such advance health care, there are conditions that contraindicate continuation of a pregnancy. And in instances where the fetus isn’t yet viable, labor can’t just simply be induced. In these cases, asking the mother to “wait it out,” thereby risking her life and health, are just unconscionable. An unborn baby can’t survive in a dead mother.
    And lest we forget a woman’s emotional and mental health. It’s disgusting to see how y’all have dismissed Danielle Deavers’ obvious emotional trauma from this experience. On pro-life blogs I’ve seen this woman maligned as weak, lazy, a baby-killer, etc.–all because she didn’t want to offer up her body as a living coffin. That woman is experiencing some real psychological hurt and all you can do is shame, shame, shame. This website’s a veritable circus of histrionics–the unhappy post-abortives seem to think they’re entitled to speak for everybody who’s had an abortion. Anybody with a differing opinion is either crazy or in denial, and isn’t the Danielle Deavers story just a perfect case in point?
     
     
     

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  32. Gentles All,

    I’ve discussed with Jill the issue of the vulgar and inflammatory term under consideration here. It has no place here on this blog, and its use ends here and now.

    ‘Nuff said.

    Thank You.

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  33. “And I’m not a self-pronounced proponent of science. I defended a doctoral dissertation before a committee of Ph.D.’s who then pronounced me a peer.”
     
    Can you point me in the direction of some peer-reviewed literature you’ve published since then?

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  34. Joan, 

    Since graduation, I have worked at teaching and not in lab research. Currently I am working on a longitudinal autism research project, and in January signed on with a collaborative developmental endocrinology project. Stay tuned.

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  35. “I’ve discussed with Jill the issue of the vulgar and inflammatory term under consideration here. It has no place here on this blog, and its use ends here and now.”
     
    For the record and future reference, is “Teapartier” also considered a “vulgar and inflammatory term?
     
    Thank you.

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  36. The nasty name has become so popular that students (elementary on up) are doing this to each other.  Not funny. 

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  37. mp,

    Yes, it is, given the context for its use as mentioned above. Let’s not push a bad issue.

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  38. @ Megan, I didn’t say there weren’t any medical situations that contraindicated continuing a pregnancy, in fact I specifically stated there are a handful of such conditions…I stated there are medical reasons late term that require an ABORTION. If the pregnancy must be terminated it can be via induced labor, it is hit or miss at that gestational age but can certainly be attempted, the cervix can be manually or chemically dialated (just as is necesitated in an abortion btw) and pitocin and other drugs can be given to cause contractions. Now this doesn’t always work even at full term, but it can certainly be tried and, again, baby can always be deliveried via c-section, even if induction fails. We are talking about babies AT LEAST 22 weeks gestation (20 weeks fetal age). A 20 week fetal age baby has a slight but real statistical chance of living, and by the time you get to 26 week fetal age (28 weeks gestation) the baby has a more than 50% chance of surviving. I am unable to read the link you sent, as I’m on a cell and it was trying to download a 7 page pdf file. But I am well familair with the ACOG, and, as a researched mother of two I don’t trust 90% of what they say as far as I could have thrown my lying OB from my last pregnancy. (If you want to get really ticked at some doctors check out myobsaidwhat.com ) if I had the link I would give it to you, but just last week a collection of over 2000 OBGYNs and perinatalogists et all signed a joint letter in Africa reaffirming that there are no situations where direct abortion is required to save the life of the mother. There have been repeated letters of like from both US OBs and international childbirth specialists in the last decade or so. I’m sorry I can’t link (cell again) but they shouldn’t be hard to find if you want them, maybe someone else can post a link?
    As far as the woman’s mental suffering…what happened was a tragedy, a tragedy that appears to have been grossly compounded by a very bad doctor. But regardless of the sympathy such a situation illicits, one persons piece of mind does not trump another persons right to life. You can not excuse killing by saying someone is upset, however justified that depression may be. And the woman was NOT asked to be a tomb or carry a dead baby, she was erroneously told nothing could be done for her child and it would likely die soon. Her response to that was ‘well, I want you to kill it now so I don’t have to see it’ when she was informed that the doctor could not kill it because the procedure was illegal due to the cruelty and pain inflicted upon the child, her response was to be upset because, again, she would have to SEE it. Which is really the whole abortion debate right there. People are ok with ripping apart a baby limb from limb as long as it’s hidden from sight. But once the baby can be seen (born) we recognize that such horrors are wrong. Even showing pictures of it is too extreme for most people and cause huge upswellings of emotion, anger, arguement, and even violence. But as long as it’s safely hidden from sight it’s just a ambiguous (sp?) ‘Choice’. People have long known abuses flurish much easier in secret, and were is more secret than inside a womb?

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  39. And, I’ll add: Cece Richard doesn’t make over 300 grand a year “helping” women like Danielle, who was under the care of a doctor.  My doctor doesn’t work at Planned Parenthood.  No one’s doctor works at Planned Parenthood.  They are not doctors like you think of when you say, “I might have an ear infection, I’ll go see my doctor.”  or “I need to get a physical, I’ll go see my doctor.”   The lie they keep telling is that abortion is a decision between a woman and her doctor.  Not.  Women and teens do not go to Planned Parenthood for health care, but only to have sex and not give birth. If you found a lump in your breast, I guarantee the LAST place you’d go is Planned Parenthood; you’d go to your own doctor.  Women will sometimes go to Planned Parenthood OUTSIDE their own medical provider network because they want to end the pregnancy in secret.

    No one’s doctor is to be found at Planned Parenthood.

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  40. A couple of points if I may Gerard. Didn’t your jesus also say many other things about how we should treat others? Such as turning the other cheek?
    I also think its a bit presumptuous of you that you consider your offerings to be pearls.
     
    Of course all this leaves me with a bit of a dilemma. I don’t believe in this jesus character so I have no reason to refer to people as Pigs, or even swine. Perhaps if I weren’t a godless liberal I might feel entitled to do so.

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  41. Jespren’s comment is exactly right: there is NO medically necessary reason for Abortion.  The reason’s ACOG provided are all “the mom’s comfort is more important than an innocent human being”.  Apparently abortion is the cure-all because 1-6 women are raped.  Maybe society should be looking for a REAL solution to rape, not pretending that women can handle it if they have access to abortion!

    Love how the trolls try to distract, only proving the point that fetal pain protection bill is a WINNING pro-life strategy.

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  42. Maybe society should be looking for a REAL solution to rape, not pretending that women can handle it if they have access to abortion!

    Amen Denice!  Legalized abortion has set women way back and objectified us more and at earlier ages.

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  43. So the solution to the “rape issue” is…condemning contraception and forcing women to give birth when they don’t want to? That’s productive. Tell me, Praxedes–what are the rape stats in good ‘ole pro-life Ireland?

    BTW Jespren: Likewise, I don’t trust your bogus statistics or absolutism.

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