Abortion victim’s father launches website on 11th anniversary of RU-486 legalization
In conjunction with the 11th anniversary of the legalization of RU-486 in the U.S., the father of a young woman who tragically died as a direct result of taking the abortion pill has launched an educational website, AbortionPillRisks.org.
In 2003, 18-yr-old Holly Patterson (pictured left) died of septic shock seven days after she took RU-486 at a California Planned Parenthood. Since then there have been nine other reported deaths in the U.S. due to sepsis (serious blood infection) after taking RU-486.
Holly’s father Monty has been an unswerving advocate for women since his daughter’s death, tirelessly educating the public and elected officials on the harm of RU-486.
Monty’s efforts culminate today in the unveiling of his website, dedicated to Holly. The site provides RU-486’s boxed warnings, contraindications, the FDA protocol, risks, and more. Also on the site is an excellent video, only available there at this time. But it’s a must-see.
Monty emailed me a comment:
There are serious health risks associated with the mifepristone/misoprostol medical abortion pill procedure. Those risks must be communicated in a clear, concise, and responsible manner so women can make informed decisions. Women may hear about the rare possibility of death associated with medical abortion from their provider but AbortionPillRisks.org will be able to tell a more complete story what medical abortion is really about.
Read his press release here.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
This is fantastic. Please pass on my thanks to Mr. Patterson.
Our prayers are with you. when I sidewalk counsel I tell of your daughter’s story so that women can make a different choice. I am so sorry for your loss. Know that we are praying for you. Thank you for having this site go up and the video available.
I condole with Mr. Patterson on the loss of his lovely young daughter.
Lets not forget TWO died that day! Holly AND her baby!
So you’re whining about a few deaths cause by RU486. Whenever the subject of deaths from illegal abortions come up, the attitude is that the number are inflated and these women got what they deserved. What exactly are numbers of deaths from RU 486 per women who take the drug? Are they any higher than deaths from any other drugs? But as you consider deaths from illegal abortions to be collateral damage, we could say the same for this one, tragic as it is. And here’s another question. Why did this girl take the drug? Did she not have access to a gynecologist who performed abortions or a local clinic?
Oh, I thought it was the dad of an aborted baby from the post’s title
cc whining about a few deaths? this man lost his daughter and grandchild! you seriously are one pro choicer who makes me sick. do you bleed ice cubes?
What is the death rate per dose of RU486 comapred to the death rate of full-term delivery?
Come on CC,
Remember when the PA’s howled like banshees over the alleged “illegal abortion” death of Becky Bell despite not a shred of medical evidence that she had an illegal abortion? In fact, the evidence pointed to a natural, albeit tragic and preventable death.
If Holly’s death had been from an illegal abortion, you and the rest of the PAs would be screaming bloody murder. The only problem for you is that Holly’s death is not politically expedient, as was Becky’s but rather an embarassing nuisance. So what if a woman or two dies from RU486? OK, so what if a woman or two dies of illegal abortion?
Reality,
Not the point. Why did you PAs howl like banshees over the alleged “illegal abortion” death of Becky Bell but a few deaths from RU486, well that happens.
The point of this thread is about the level of risk of RU486 Mary.
I know Reality,
…and we are also discussing a young woman’s death, which for some reason isn’t generating much concern or outrage from your side. One can’t help but notice the glaring double standard.
hi mary. nice to see you as always. poor becky bell is still the “poster girl” that the pro aborts continue to exploit as an 18 year old girl who died from an illegal abortion. at autopsy the coroner ruled that there was no abortion and the cause of death was listed as pneumonia
Hi heather,
Good to see you again as well. I hope your husband is doing well, as I know all of us on this blog hope the same.
It evokes as much concern or outrage in me as do full-term delivery deaths. No double standard there.
Reality,
So a few deaths from legal abortion will happen, but they are not as bad as full term delivery deaths.
May I remind you it is your side that will howl like banshees if a woman dies of illegal abortion, but will view a “few” deaths from legal abortion, as, well it happens.
Also – some deaths during the clinical trials.
Recently – within the last year or so – there was a drug recall for a released drug, where there was just a few deaths (of course – monumental effects for those person’s families), and yet these drugs, when used for abortion – and NO BLIP on the FDA radar.
why? Because it is the abortion-related sacred cow. No matter lives lost (as viewed by the medical community), but if men are hurt by a drug at all – off the market it goes! Just wish I could remember the specific one. Darn brain!
“So a few deaths from legal abortion will happen, but they are not as bad as full term delivery deaths.” – not at all, they are all equally tragic.
The maternal mortality rate from abortion is significantly less than that for full-term delivery.
I’d be interested to know the comparative rates between RU486 usage and full-term delivery.
Death rates from illegal abortions are higher than from legal abortions so of course supporters of choice would protest.
thank you for the kind words mary. we will know more 2mrow. reality we would all find a death from childbirth tragic. nobody is disputing that. i took more of an issue with cc. i wouldnt care if holly passed away at a dental procedure. her father is still grieving and not whining! would cc tell women i wish we would stop all this whining about stillbirths. wow! i remember an episode of phil donahue where a graphic photo of gerri twerdy was shown. she died of an illegal abortion by the man who impregnated her. as soon as she began bleeding to death he left her to die in a sleazy motel room. a collective gasp went up in the audience~that included me. it was still tragic.
ah – but the mortality rate for the unborn is virtually 100%, that and maternal mortality from abortion are far more than maternal mortality…
This is ridiculous! A woman dies because the attempt to kill her unborn child not only killed that child, but her also. This is why RU 486 is also given with anti-biotics now – but the ‘improved way’ or ‘old way’ – she is still dead – along with the other women also.
A death is tragic – in any circumstances – and is even more so when done in this manner. But unfortunately – because we are discussing abortion, abortion proponents dismiss this as ‘needed’ because, well, basically – they are wedded to the idea that abortion is ‘needed.’
Too bad we can not open the heart to recognize that purposeful death is never ‘needed.’
Reality,
Do we know the true death statistics from legal abortion? Do clinics report? Do they follow up on patients?
The death rate from illegal abortion was at an all time low in 1972, one year prior to Roe.
The decrease in the death rate was due to better surgical technique, fluid and blood therapy, and antibiotics. In his book “Aborting America” Dr. Bernard Nathanson admits illegal abortion statistics were deliberately distorted. Most illegal abortions were done in doctor’s offices, and by medical personnel. Unlike the legal clinics today, practitioners had to be extremely careful or face a prison sentence. It makes sense that illegal abortion may have been far safer.
So, do we know for certain death rates from illegal abortion were higher?
Actually, Reality’s question is interesting to me also. Reality, I don’t know the answer. But I think the risk is much higher with RU486 considering millions of women give birth each year but millions of women are not having medical abortions.
Does anyone know the answer to Reality’s question? I just feel too lazy to research it myself tonight.
Anyone remember that Angie the antitheist who was tweeting her RU486 abortion and then another woman started copying Angie and tweeting her own medical abortion and stopped after posting how she was bleeding heavily and scared? Whatever happened to her I wonder?
Hi heather,
Thank you for the update. An excellent point about Holly’s father. PL people were certainly sympathetic to Becky’s parents, I never recall anyone accusing them of “whining”. Our hearts can only go out to parents who have lost their children, especially when it is so sudden and for no apparent “sensible” reason. I think Becky’s parents, like Holly’s, were trying very hard to make some sense and find some purpose in a child’s premature and tragic death.
joy, if all the women who wanted to have an abortion or use RU486 went on to give birth instead, more of them would die – for something they didn’t want.
“The death rate from illegal abortion was at an all time low in 1972” – “illegal abortion statistics were deliberately distorted” – hm.
By 1972 abortion was legally performed to an extent in some states. That had a downward effect on the death rate.
I think ‘lazy’ is a bit self-deprecating in the circumstances Sydney M :-)
yes back on track. i believe that with all the new medical procedures out there women arent dying in childbirth. i believe i heard of one case where the young lady had a clot and died. life happens but abortion is not normal or safe. check out the web site cemetery of choice and get back to me.
heather says:
September 28, 2011 at 8:54 pm
thank you for the kind words mary. we will know more 2mrow. reality we would all find a death from childbirth tragic. nobody is disputing that. i took more of an issue with cc. i wouldnt care if holly passed away at a dental procedure. her father is still grieving and not whining! would cc tell women i wish we would stop all this whining about stillbirths. wow! i remember an episode of phil donahue where a graphic photo of gerri twerdy was shown. she died of an illegal abortion by the man who impregnated her. as soon as she began bleeding to death he left her to die in a sleazy motel room. a collective gasp went up in the audience~that included me. it was still tragic.
(Denise) The story of Gerri Twerdy Santoro is one of the saddest I’ve ever encountered. However, it has little relevance to the debate over legal abortion. Her terrible, lonely, squalid death was the result of extreme panic and the failure to think rationally because of that panic. After all, she was 6 1/2 months along and abortion is illegal even today under Roe v. Wade! The unborn was viable and might have survived outside the womb. She aborted because she was terrified her estranged and abusive husband would see her pregnant by another man and murder her. People do awful and often self-destructive things when they are in terror.
“i believe that with all the new medical procedures out there women arent dying in childbirth.” – you what? Where are you living, on the set of ‘Death Takes a Holiday’?
“life happens but abortion is not normal or safe” – well according to the numbers thrown around here, it is normal. And it’s safer than childbirth.
denise isnt it ironic that gerri was worried that her husband would kill her yet the no good coward she was sleeping with did it. as soon as she began dying he split!
ok reality post a source. i gave you cemetery of choice. your turn. where do i live? earth
I gave you facts, CDC and other similar sources support them.
You gave me ‘Cemetery of choice’ which is not an unbiased and independant source of factual information.
And please, please, share the source of “women arent dying in childbirth”, I’d love to see it. I have no idea where you are living!
Reality,
In fact it was antibiotics, improved surgical techniques, sterile technique, and IV and blood transfusion therapy that resulted in a steady downtread in the death rate from illegal abortion over several decades.
Dr.Nathanson was part of the movement to legalize abortion and readily admits that illegal abortion and death statistics were falsified to generate public sympathy and support.
correct mary. i never jumped for joy over a woman who died from abortion. my sympathy ran deep for becky bell because she would be my age today had she not passed away. i actually researched the bell case years later and viewed the autopsy report. its true becky had a pregnancy scare but it was a false alarm. shame on pro aborts for continuing to pimp her to promote their agenda.
Thats all good then Mary, abortion is safer than ever.
heather says:
September 28, 2011 at 10:04 pm
denise isnt it ironic that gerri was worried that her husband would kill her yet the no good coward she was sleeping with did it. as soon as she began dying he split!
(Denise) Actually, her married boyfriend, Clyde Dixon, was attempting to SAVE her life. They both believed that the advanced state of pregnancy would put her in danger when her husband visited his daughters — as he said he would do soon. They both acted very foolishly in believing that Clyde Dixon — a man with no medical training — could perform an abortion with only a textbook to guide him. It was almost inevitable that the operation would go wrong. C.D. saw her bleeding profusely and uncontrollably as a result of his actions. Naturally enough, he panicked, leaving the room and not thinking to call for help. It was basically stupidity and panic which is why the judge went easy on him when he pled no contest to involuntary manslaughter and conspiracy to commit abortion, giving him only a year in jail.
The story is terribly, terribly sad. But it isn’t even relevant to the debate about abortion’s legality or illegality.
reality there are lots of pregnancy related illnesses but i didnt see where you posted about maternal deaths. show me. my friend had a fatal illness called hellp while pregnant. her platlets began to drop and the baby died. she could have died but didnt. we have excellent hospitals in cleveland so if they can save you they will.
Is it possible that even more women have died using RU486 than reported? Could there be deaths out there not attributed to the pill because they didn’t know the woman had taken it (would that show up on an autopsy)? Or even just deaths that were attributed to RU486 but not reported to the FDA?
Reality, 10:48PM
Not quite. Legal abortion meant anyone and everyone could run a clinic. In Chicago’s most exclusive neighborhoods, undercover reporters found clinics run by used car salesmen and mortiician school dropouts. There were no legal penalties to concern themselves with so why not? Tiller hired people off the street. Carhart’s “clinic” looks like a converted garage next to a drug house. Legalizing something does not put the criminal element out of business, it only makes its easier for them to conduct business. These clinics could run like factories, if patients were injured or killed, too bad. Something the discreet and careful doctor would not dare do before Roe.
Denise Noe,
It is relevant in that this woman’s tragedy was often exploited by pro-aborts to further their agenda. They had no qualms about showing this woman’s dead naked body in a most undignifed pose, and exploiting her tragedy as an example of what happens when abortion is illegal. Obviously there was little respect for her family as well, as none of us would not want our mother, daughter or sister exposed like this.
Hi Kate,
Excellent point.
no way denise. thats two counts of first degree murder in my text book. he should have done life!
None of that changes the fact that abortion is safer than childbirth Mary. And it has become even safer over time.
mary how true that they keep taking dignity from a dead woman. shame on those slobs for showing a nude and bloody gerri s backside for all the world to see. her poor family.
denise isnt it ironic that gerri was worried that her husband would kill her yet the no good coward she was sleeping with did it. as soon as she began dying he split!
He was trying to save her life? My a$$ he was. He was trying to cover his butt. If he was a real man who actually cared about her, he wouldn’t have remained married after she had been carrying his child for 6 months. If he was a real man who actually loved her, he would’ve loved their child as well. If he were a real man who actually gave a flip about her and her well-being, and the well-being of the child they created together, he would’ve laid down his life to protect her from her abusive ex, if need-be.
No. This was not a man. this was a weasel who used women, wanted to have his cake and eat it, too, and was willing to kill his child and the mother of his child in order to do so. This was a slimeball. This was a piece of human garbage.
xalaxie~standing ovation!
@Reality: Baloney. Childbirth is a NATURAL NORMAL process a womans body is DESIGNED to carry out. As in any NATURAL bodily process or function, there are X amount of times something goes wrong and the process fails, sometimes with fatal results for the mother.
INDUCED abortion is completely AGAINST the natural normal way the female body is designed and therefore can’t possibly be “safer” than childbirth. If childbirth was such a “dangerous” occurance, the human race would have died out eons ago or never existed in the first place.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
Try again.
I didn’t say that childbirth was ‘such a “dangerous” occurance’ Mike. At no point.
I said that abortion has a lower rate of maternal mortality rate than childbirth.
So you are wrong to say it ‘can’t possibly be “safer” than childbirth’ when the facts say otherwise.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
Is induced birth AGAINST the natural, normal way? Is a c-section? What about stillbirth?
Try harder.
Abortion has a lower rate of maternal mortality than childbirth…when the CDC classifies abortion related deaths as birth-related.
Attempting to confuse the truth doesn’t change it xalisae.
The truth is that abortion kills more humans than giving birth does. Indisputable.
Reality 11:24PM
Did you read my post? What do you see as being “safer”? The real irony is that illegal abortion may have been considerably safer.
Reality: “What do you see as being “safer”? The real irony is that illegal abortion may have been considerably safer.”
Sounds like you think illegal abortion would be better than leaving it legal. Sounds good to me too. ;o)
The quote “What do you see as being “safer”? The real irony is that illegal abortion may have been considerably safer.” came from Mary. I agree that illegal abortion would be considerably safer for both the mom and unborn baby.
“What is the death rate per dose of RU486 comapred to the death rate of full-term delivery?”
For a useful answer, the health of the mother would have to be controlled. What is the death rate of full term delivery for women with the same health status as women taking RU486? That is the real question. And of course, it is the one no researcher will ask because they don’t want the answer to be documented.
“The maternal mortality rate from abortion is significantly less than that for full-term delivery.”
But not for women with comparable health status.
Healthy women have much lower rates of death from full term delivery.
Pre term delivery is used in rare cases when a woman cannot carry to term without risking death. Often the child can also be saved.
Abortion deaths occur in women with no health problems.
So, abortion is riskier for young healthy women because their risk of death from full term delivery is so very low.
On the other hand, a critically ill pregnant woman has a much higher risk of full term delivery.
To have an honest discussion of risk, you have to control for the mother’s health.
You can’t just pretend that all maternal deaths are comparable whether it is an abortion death in an otherwise healthy young woman with no risk factors, or it is a full term delivery death in a woman suffering from a serious illness or condition.
“So you’re whining about a few deaths cause by RU486. Whenever the subject of deaths from illegal abortions come up, the attitude is that the number are inflated and these women got what they deserved.”
What a bold faced lie.
All deaths from abortion are tragic as well as unnecessary. Legal abortion doesn’t save lives. Killing millions to save 20 or 30 women a year is not a good deal and statistically legal abortion leads to more deaths of women than illegal abortion when you account for the much higher suicide rate in post abortive women. Women who have had an abortion are about 6 times more likely to commit suicide than women who carry to term and have never aborted. So legal abortion does not save lives by any qualitative or quantitative measure.
Pregnancy terminations, including those that attempt to save pre term babies, save a few very ill pregnant women. Elective abortions save no one.
hippie makes an excellent point about the harm abortion does to women in the long run. i doubt any stats will ever come out about a suicide abortion link. as my liberal pal george says “those women were nuts to begin with.” hes a 75 year old retired fireman and medic and he has gone on calls where women tried to abort themselves. perhaps thats why his attitude is as such. but hes also a firm believer that women dont suffer as a result of abortion. .~they were unstable before hand.
I have a question. The blog post says ” Since then there have been nine other reported deaths in the U.S. due to sepsis (serious blood infection).”
Did these other sepsis deaths occur after use of RU-486?
Being able to tell women that 10 people have died in the last 11 years because of using the abortion pill would have a pretty strong impact. I know I would be hesitant to use any drug that had killed 10 women in 10 years. It isn’t clear in the article if that is actually the case, though.
Abortion fans who say that more women die in childbirth than because of abortion are LYING. There are NO reliable statistics about abortion deaths because abortionists won’t report them and in many states don’t have to.
The death mongers who constantly post here are sick people.
Whatever the statistics are, RU-486 will NEVER be honestly represented to the public. BECAUSE THE SEX. MUST. CONTINUE. At all costs, even Holly’s life.
Reality: “None of that changes the fact that abortion is safer than childbirth Mary. And it has become even safer over time.”
Well then the rational thing to do is to push for federal policies that will promote and encourage safety.
SAFE FOR WHOM??????????????
Can you not see the the irony and IDIOCY of what you just said????????????????
eh reality is just playing games. she doesnt want to visit the cemetery of choice. she thinks abortion is safe. so sorry but you are wrong and you seem to be leading plifers on a wild goosechase. sorry im not posting anything more for you. oh and by the way ru486 isnt safe for all of the children who were exterminated from it.
oh yeah and just know one thing reality. your scare tactics about childbirth wont shake too many women up. there are plenty of obgyns who can see a woman through a safe pregnancy and delivery. abortionists are inept yet you will maintain they are safe. is that why my husbands son got his girlfriend pregnant and she required more surgery to remove the retained baby parts? how about the woman i knew who had 8 abortions and had to have a hysterectomy as a direct result? yeah abortions are so safe.
Septic shock is something I’m only too familiar with. That was the official cause of my dad’s death. It was an infection in a body already weakened by multiple system atrophy, a very severe form of Parkinson’s disease that doesn’t respond to the medication Parkinson’s normally responds to.
Len, 10:41: Yes, at least 10 mothers in the US have died of sepsis following ingestion of RU486. I’ll clarify the post.
Reality said, “I said that abortion has a lower rate of maternal mortality rate than childbirth.”
So is Reality admitting that the women who abort are mothers? Freudian slip?
and i’ve heard that “abortion is safer than childbirth” lie ad nauseam. That is fear-mongering. Regardless of whether it is safe or not for the woman, it is never safe for the child being aborted. That’s the crux of the issue. Abortion is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being, therefore all abortions are unsafe.
xalisae says:
September 28, 2011 at 11:56 pm
denise isnt it ironic that gerri was worried that her husband would kill her yet the no good coward she was sleeping with did it. as soon as she began dying he split! He was trying to save her life? My a$$ he was. He was trying to cover his butt. If he was a real man who actually cared about her, he wouldn’t have remained married after she had been carrying his child for 6 months. If he was a real man who actually loved her, he would’ve loved their child as well. If he were a real man who actually gave a flip about her and her well-being, and the well-being of the child they created together, he would’ve laid down his life to protect her from her abusive ex, if need-be. No. This was not a man. this was a weasel who used women, wanted to have his cake and eat it, too, and was willing to kill his child and the mother of his child in order to do so. This was a slimeball. This was a piece of human garbage.
(Denise) Xalisae, we can’t demand that every single man in the world be a successful superhero or Sir Galahad. Clyde Dixon screwed up. So did the tragic Gerri Santoro. They both made blunders because human beings tend to make blunders under the influence of extreme fear. We might wish that everyone was as cool as some of our TV and movie action heroes and showed the same kind of courage under fire.
As I pointed out before, Gerri Santoro’s abortion would be illegal even now. Her pregnancy was just too far advanced.
Gerri knew she was pregnant shortly after she got pregnant. She made no effort in the direction of abortion. The truth is that she appeared perfectly willing to carry to term and have the baby — and Clyde Dixon was perfectly willing for her to have the baby — until she feared violence at the hands of a husband who had previously been frequently violent. The knowledge that his separated wife had committed adultery and the sight of her with a distended belly as a result of that adultery might lead him to kill her. That was the only reason that Gerri — who would otherwise have allowed the pregnancy to take its natural course and end with a live birth — sought abortion. By the time she and Clyde got to that hotel room, I doubt they had any illusions about what they were doing. At 6 1/2 months pregnant, she didn’t think of a “fetus” but of a “baby” — that she and Clyde were going to expel at the cost of his or her life in order to prevent Gerri herself from being murdered. In order to save Gerri’s life, they were going to sacrifice the baby. I believe this is probably how they thought of it: as killing the baby that was doomed anyway in order to save Gerri’s life. They knew it would be butchery and they were going to do it even though both had accepted the pregnancy before Sam Santoro announced his intention to pay a visit.
Of course, Clyde Dixon had no medical training or experience. It was utter foolishness for anyone to think he could kill the unborn baby without harming Gerri at that stage of pregnancy. But people don’t think well when they are desperate. And not every man is cut out for the extremely high pressure that he was under.
His reaction to the sight of blood gushing out of Gerri was natural — he panicked and fled. After he was arrested, many people were upset that he hadn’t made a phone call to police or hospital — just an anonymous phone call — so that there could have been an attempt to save her life. Indeed, if he HAD made such a phone call, medical personnel would have tried to save Gerri AND the baby both she and Clyde believed had to be killed so she could live. I believe it is even possible that Gerri might have died if treated and the baby might have lived.
When Clyde was in court, he pled no contest to two felonies. He could have gotten a sentence of many years behind bars. Some of the people who worked on the case were dismayed that the judge sentenced him to only a year. Like you, they may have believed he should have been more protective of both his unborn child and Gerri. However, I think the judge realized that this defendant was not a vicious man. He was a scared man.
When Ms. magazine ran the infamous photo showing a naked Gerri Santoro with her back area to the viewer and crouched over and bloodied in that hotel room, they had not consulted with any of her family members. Some of them were initially very upset that the picture was run. Many people don’t want to see a death photo of a loved one in the news media, especially a picture that shows the body in a demeaning manner as that one does.
Ultimately, the Geraldine Santoro story is about panic and the muddled thinking and terrible actions that can result from it.
The police should’ve been called a long time before they thought about sacrificing the life of their child then, huh? If her ex was THAT violent? The scenario you put forth makes ZERO sense. “Oh, honey, looks like your ex is coming to kill you and our baby. BETTER KILL THE BABY THEN!” Not buying it, sorry.
He was trying to cover his ass with his wife and her husband. He’s a scumbag. And if she went along with it instead of going to the police and saving her baby from her ex AND the P.O.S. she was sleeping with…she’s just as bad.
It would appear heather, that I need to explain this clearly and simply for you.
I have visited the cemetery of choice site before. I have now done so again so that you can resist the temptation to attempt to negate my statements. Look, here’s the link –
http://realchoice.0catch.com/library/deaths/bldeaths.htm
It is a site which lists the details of women who have allegedly died from abortion.
At no stage did I say that women have not died from causes directly attributable to having had an abortion. Never.
What I have stated is that a woman is less likely to die from having an abortion than from giving birth.
Despite the efforts of some commenters above to obscure the truth, the bottom line is that if 100,000 women had abortions and an equivalent group of 100,000 women gave birth, there would be less dead women in the first group.
And despite the efforts of some to infer that I am against women giving birth, that is simply nonsense. I am a parent myself and I congratulate those who announce their pregnancies here.
The death rates in both scenarios are so small that stopping women from following either route is ludicrous.
We drive cars, fly planes and catch trains. People die. But we deem the death rate to be such that we don’t decide that it is necessary that these activities are ceased.
Peoples’ desire to have children means that births will continue despite the rare deaths. The same premise applies to abortion.
Courtnay: My remark was easily misunderstood — apologies for causing alarm; I was seeing whether Reality takes a genuine interest in the safety of women, or whether it’s just a pro-choice talking point. Based on her remarks just above, I’d say it’s not much of a talking point since the risk doesn’t really matter to her from a practical standpoint.
xalisae says:
September 29, 2011 at 7:42 pm
The police should’ve been called a long time before they thought about sacrificing the life of their child then, huh? If her ex was THAT violent? The scenario you put forth makes ZERO sense. “Oh, honey, looks like your ex is coming to kill you and our baby. BETTER KILL THE BABY THEN!” Not buying it, sorry. He was trying to cover his ass with his wife and her husband. He’s a scumbag. And if she went along with it instead of going to the police and saving her baby from her ex AND the P.O.S. she was sleeping with…she’s just as bad.
(Denise) We can agree about what Gerri Santoro SHOULD have done. She had less than 3 months to go before this pregnancy — a pregnancy she seemed to have accepted with the intention of a natural completion — ended in the birth of a live and probably perfectly healthy infant.
She needed to stay out of the orbit of Sam Santoro. Therefore, when he announced he was visiting his daughters, she should have contacted the police or another agency that would have enabled her to find a place in which to seek refuge. Although I’ve pointed out problems with adoption, I’m not AGAINST the practice. At the birth, she might have placed the baby for adoption and Sam Santoro need never have known about the pregnancy. Things would have been more difficult if she kept her baby but she might have found a way to keep him away from her and the child even while still raising her daughters by him. He had a right to visit them but not Gerri — something might have been worked out and she needed an order of protection and other things to ensure he stayed away from her.
The above is what she should have done. That’s the sort of thing you do when you are thinking clearly.
“the risk doesn’t really matter to her from a practical standpoint”
Well I must say, you do have me intrigued rasqual.
I’d love to ‘hear’ what led you to make that statement.
Please do regale us with the thought train which brought you to that conclusion.
Simple enough — you took pains to distance yourself from any notion that you might encourage abortion for the sake of safety.
So whether abortion is safer or not remains strictly academic to you — not of consequence for policy or anything else of practical value.
Not quite sure what category to put your contemplation into rasqual.
I have no need or reason to either encourage or discourage abortion.
My position is that it is a womans personal choice.
I pointed out the incongruity of those who claim that abortion causes some women to die, due to the fact that less die than from childbirth.
But nor do I discourage childbirth.
Not too many people seem to asign a ‘practical value’ to the risks involved in either.
Purely logical policy would indicate that childbirth should be banned but I can’t see that happening any time soon.
Nor would I support it, anymore than I would support the banning of motor vehicles.
People want babies, some die. People don’t want babies, some die.
Risk doesn’t seem to matter too much to the participants. No more than it does for people driving a car or flying a plane.
denise im amazed that you are excusing geri and clyde for what they did. i dont know where to begin. its a fact that most people who kill someone panic and hide the body or try to get out of town. then they have to face consequences! should we let every murderer out of prison today because after they killed someone they were so full of fear? their are lots of battered women but this woman should have gone to the cops and fessed up. im pregnant from a married man and i fear my ex will kill me. they could have gone into hiding. sorry but murderers should never get a free pass and that seems to be what you are giving mr dixon. and btw a real man wouldnt have left a woman he loved to die on a sleazy hotel room floor
and yes they both did something stupid. ive seen shows where murderers were young and stupid at the time of the crime but they are still serving that 52 year sentence. you mean to tell me that geri never ever thought shed see her ex again? they had kids together! and at 6 months pregnant she began to worry? nah. above all a real man would have said “i will do whatever i have to do to protect you from that sob…..what did he do instead? he bought a friggin text book on how to perform an abortion. he had to know he would slaughter her! then i imagine her dying and pleading “please dont leave me im afraid”~and what did the slimeball do? he grabbed his stuff and slammed the door. typical coward. he didnt give a rats behind about her. he wanted to save his own skin. he even could have called an ambulance and given them their room number.
The abortion pill is really no different than the contraceptives many “pro-life” people consume – it is just happens to destroy what you are so desperately trying to prevent.
It is the HEIGHT of hypocrisy to claim to be pro-life and contracept.
and last but not least you say this is one of the saddest cases….. let me tell you why. its because she was sleeping with a married worm and she was looking for love in all the wrong places. then she became pregnant and they decided to do something dangerous. this woman should have said “no way will i allow you to kill my baby and possibly kill me” would you let a friend perform an appendectomy on you? heck no. and last but not least its tragic that she and her baby paid with their lives and died in a filthy hotel room.
Bruce, are you a troll? Because you can’t be this stupid:
“The abortion pill is really no different than the contraceptives many ‘pro-life’ people consume – it is just happens to destroy what you are so desperately trying to prevent.”
In that case, Bruce, you play into pro-aborts’ ridiculous argument that the fetus is “really no different” than an egg or a sperm.
How’s it feel to hold a view that concedes even a STUPID argument from pro-aborts?
Good grief.
Perhaps Bruce was thinking that chemically the bcp contains the same ingredients as some abortion pills (really just the morning after type pills). The truth is that while the results are different–some forms of bc do prevent conception rather than killing babies–all of the reasons that people use birth control are the same reasons women get abortions.
Still. Not. Buying. It.
OK, xalisae, not that I care, but perhaps you’re not aware that Levonorgestrel has both anovulant AND interceptive effects, depending upon the woman’s current state at time of consumption.
And as a matter of truth, one who contracepts to prevent a life, and then takes either levonorgestrel or misopristol to get rid of that life once prevention fails is simply being consistent.
To contracept, and then kill that child if contraception fails, is simply being consistent. The fact that you, and others here, think that you can contracept and then pat yourself on the back if contraception fails and you get a child (by mistake, mind you…your words, not ours), is hypocritical.
You cannot be pro-life and pro-contraception. Still. Not. Buying. Your. Argument.
You sure are making a pretty big fuss for someone who doesn’t care to someone who wasn’t even talking to you. lol
But to address your (rather incoherent) argument, attempting to prevent a life from beginning in the first place is not inconsistent with believing that every life already in existence should be protected under the law. Not that I care what you think, either. ;)
However, my original statement was in regard to Clyde Dixon and Gerri Santoro. Those two deaths were primarily attributable to the weasel Clyde Dixon’s cowardice, and secondarily to the cowardice and inaction of Gerri Santoro.
xalisae still. not. buying. it. either.
denise drug dealers get ticked and shoot people who owe them money. naturally they were acting out of stupidity. many have regrets after the fact. maybe we should set them free from prison because they acted out of stupidity
The mindset which seeks to prevent life but may accept it if it occurs and that which accepts it whether or not it occurs are NOT the same.
The first is contraceptive and pro-abortion, the second is correct and pro-life.
Some of you are blasting my statements on the Gerri Santoro tragedy. You seem to overlook that I’m on your side on this! Gerri Santoro didn’t die agonizingly and slowly in that hotel because abortion was illegal. She died because she and her boyfriend were too upset by fear to think clearly. The woman was in the start of her 3rd trimester. The baby might have survived — if only for awhile — outside her womb. I don’t even know if we can know what they expected to do. Were they going to pull the baby out of her and THEN kill him or her? Who can know?
Sam Santoro WAS a violence prone man and that’s why she was so scared. He frequently flew into rages in which he beat Gerri unmercifully. He also would often “discipline” his daughters by overdoing it long and hard with a belt. Sam himself recognized that he had a terrible problem with his temper. He told Gerri he thought the rages might be triggered by allergies so they moved to California in the hopes that the problem would be alleviated there. Unfortunately, it wasn’t so Gerri fled him.
Again, as I pointed out: Gerri Santoro had NOT REJECTED HER PREGNANCY when she learned she was pregnant. She apparently had every intention of carrying to term and giving birth to a healthy baby.
Then Sam announced that he was coming to visit his daughters. THAT’S when she feared for her life. A man who beat her for trivial things was likely to kill her seeing that she was pregnant by another man.
The best thing for her to have done was arrange for someone to care for her daughters and then take an extended “visit” somewhere. She could have done this as she had 14 brothers and sisters. What’s more, her sister Leona believed that Gerri planned to seek help from Catholic Charities, a group that might have provided or at least directed her to a place to hide out.
Unfortunately, I know only too well how panic distorts the mind. A burglar once broke into my apartment. It was 3am when I was awakened by a man crouched over my bed and stroking my back! What did I do? I immediately started screaming — something that could have easily triggered a rape or murder. He jumped up to leave and I actually CHASED him, shouting, “Get out of here, you *******! Get out of here, you ********!”
Another time I opened the door to a dark hotel room. I saw what I thought was someone to the side of me and started screaming. Then I realized I was looking at myself in a mirror!
This is the sort of feeling that afflicted both Gerri Santoro and Clyde Dixon. Also, let’s remember that Clyde Dixon WAS PUNISHED since he did plead no contest to 2 crimes. The judge put him in jail for a year. Some of those who worked on the case were displeased by the leniency but the judge did not just let him go.
denise im very sorry to hear that you were almost attcked! thats awful. my entire point about mr dixon is that he did something beyond stupid and should have done double life. one year for 2 murders? thats awful. again gerri had a large family so that made things even safer for her. and why oh why didnt she woman up and go to the cops? she shouldnt have been sleeping with a married man. was she just as stupid and confused knowing she risked getting pregnant? geri is dead and so is her baby. she could have done many things differently. it doesnt matter anymore as you cant ever bring her back. there is o reason to debate it any longer.