by Carder
Some of the free preventive care would probably help some. But a 62-year-old woman doesn’t need maternity. She doesn’t need abortion.
~ Medicare beneficiary Ted Baumgartner, giving a mixed review of the “benefits” of Obamacare after spending more than 80 hours online attempting to sign up his wife on the insurance exchanges, ABC News, January 1
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
You assumed!!!???
You assumed that a man who voted AGAINST giving medical care to babies born alive after abortion would give a flip about you and yours.
Wake up!!!
Hey Ted,
Ya think you got problems now? Just wait until those hackers go to town with all your personal financial and medical information. And stop whining. Who did you think was paying for all that “free” care? Bingo.
Also, you better check with the insurance company to see if you are really covered. This isn’t like Amazon.com where when you order a product, you actually get it.
Mary,
Do you think this is going down exactly the way Obama wanted/planned?
Hi Carla,
Yes. With all this massive confusion and ineptness there can be only one answer…..the government. Der fuehrer wants a single payer system so badly he can taste it. He lied how many times about people keeping their own doctors and insurance, period? All part and parcel of his grand scheme as far as I’m concerned.
Again my rule: Look at the mind you are dealing with. That tells you everything you need to know.
“She doesn’t need abortion.”
Does anybody ever really “need” abortion? With the exception of certain rare medical emergencies, I would say no.
Totally agree Mary.
Hey even the pols in IL still do not want an exchange. That is very telling coming from O’s own “home” state.
Der shining light of the oval office wants a single payer system so badly he can taste it. – well if a government structured universal healthcare system is his ultimate goal, more power to him. Most of the civilized world has such schemes.
Perhaps you could ‘make a difference’ Mary – https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=791431634206331&id=390503827632449
Reality,
What is your fixation with this guy? You’re right up there with EGV and his chickens.
Also, shouldn’t your glorious leader be up front and honest with the American people concerning his desire for a single payer system instead of lying and creating all this havoc? If its so wonderful certainly the American people will want it, right? Isn’t this how the civilized world is supposed to conduct itself?
Mary – we all know it isn’t that simple – the American people want all sorts of things that haven’t come into play – like universal gun background checks.
There really isn’t that strong of a fixation for me – I like him more than Bush, but I can certainly envision better Presidents. It is easy to stick up for him though when I come onto the site, and you’ve got a large mob running with information, and a little bit of balance is called for.
You might say Reality and I have a fixation – well, right back at you. The hatred obsession you have is really unhealthy. It has driven you to all sorts of illogical places – like your paying for healthcare with livestock.
Well hello EGV,
Yes, the American people like the children we are, need our enlightened leader to gently lead us down the right path. If he tells a lie or two or three or……., well that’s understandable. Sometimes children must be lied to since we never know what is best.
LOL, directly quote me stating I hate Obama. In fact I don’t. I despise what he is doing. Its typical of you liberals. Criticize your glorious leader and its “hatred” or “racism”. Its not that he is actually deserving of criticism.
Paying for healthcare with livestock? Good grief EGV you’re loonier than Reality. You and the livestock have something in common. A lot of bull—-.
I’ve been told older people who live in public housing are now having their accounts/valuables/jewelry/antiques/gold teeth, etc. being listed/registered by management. When they angrily inquire, the management simply refers to government regulations and says they are only following rules. Multiple women said management went through lingerie drawers to see what was being hidden there. They are livid, but also very scared!
They are fearful they’ll be cut-off from medical aid and public housing. None of them want an AG investigation, because they fear retribution.
This activity coincides with another part of Obamacare where the government will take possession of portions of a person’s estate when they die to pay off accrued Medicaid expenses.
Anyone else able to corroborate this activity with relatives or friends in other states/locales?
Given that this is the first mention I’ve ever made of this person Mary – I only found out about him a day or so ago myself – I’d be quite interested to know how you translate that into “your fixation with this guy”.
And as Ex-GOP alludes to, you’re not exactly wheeling an empty barrow when it comes to fixations yourself.
LOL, directly quote me stating I hate obama – that’s not what Ex-GOP claimed.
Because of the extent to which the power and money behind the GOP inject lies and deceit into the political landscape, a cautionary and partial movement forwards was probably a wise approach. Once poeple recognise just how good a health system can be, they’ll start asking for it to be enhanced. Maybe even towards something like much of the civilized world has.
When it comes to lies, how’s that whole “mission accomplished” thing working on the back of an unjustified invasion?
This quote doesn’t make any sense. What this guy is describing is how insurance has always worked. I don’t need asthma medication, but it’s a covered service if I need an inhaler. I don’t freak out because someone else’s inhalers are covered. As someone who doesn’t have a prostate, I will never need prostate cancer surgery–should I be angry if my plan covers it? Should a man be angry if I get ovarian cancer and my surgery is covered by insurance? Of course not.
Reality,
Have you any idea how pathetic and laughable you sound? Lying and creating havoc is “a cautionary and partial movement forwards” and this “was probably a wise approach”? Once people recognize just how good a health system can be they will see the light! Maybe even like the rest of the civilized world.
Spare us your patronizing drivel Reality. That barrow you’ve been wheeling is several bricks short of a full load.
Oh of course its all the GOP’s fault, never mind the glorious leader had the House and Senate, openly bribed Democrats and conned others, and not one GOP member supported this monstrosity.
Concerning “mission accomplished”, that has WHAT to do with this discussion? For future reference, I opposed the Iraq War.
Have you any idea how pathetic and laughable you sound? – as pathetic and laughable as claiming the first and only mention of someone is a fixation?
Lying and creating havoc – yes well, the GOP states sure didn’t help. Despite the offers they were made. A GOP created bogus obamacare website anyone.
Spare us your patronizing drivel Reality. – LOL.
That barrow you’ve been wheeling is several bricks short of a full load. – maybe, but as the healthcare system advances everyone will be well supplied.
Oh of course its all the GOP’s fault…..and not one GOP member supported this improvement. – so you do understand how the GOP caused the problems.
Concerning “mission accomplished”, that has WHAT to do with this discussion? – you mentioned lies.
For future reference, I opposed the Iraq War. – there’s hope for you yet :-)
Reality,
The author of your link was involved in the biker/trucker demonstration we had a discussion on in a previous thread, remember? Maybe he was not the specific person we discussed but I recall you had some fixation on that trucker demonstration. You seemed to think I actually planned to drive my rig there, or some such nonsense.
That aside Reality, how about an intelligent argument? Your little one liners aren’t making any sense.
Mary – let’s be honest. You like to complain, and you offer no alternatives or solutions. There’s a lot of folks who like to complain – that’s okay. Just don’t bash people who like to be positive and optimistic. Your type always exists – there were people with blind hatred to Bush, and people with blind hatred to Obama. Do I stick up for him? Sure – regarding healthcare, with all the faults of reform, it is still better than what the GOP is offering.
Col. Harry Riley wasn’t involved in the truckers thing!
No fixation, I merely asked if you were going to participate when I heard about it. Yes, no and prevarication were your responses.
That aside Reality, how about an intelligent argument? – it would be nice. It’s just so hard to elicit sometimes ;-)
Your little one liners aren’t making any sense. – surely one liners aren’t that much of a struggle?
LOL. Sure EGV.
Let’s be honest. You sound like a crybaby. If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
I typically see the quote as “if you can’t stand the heat”. I mean, if a person can stand the heat, why should they get out of the kitchen? Maybe your kitchen is fairly cold?
Regardless – you were the one who started freaking out on the thread that somebody was sticking up for the health care reform law. I simply pointed out that as much as Reality and I stick up for Obama, I still don’t think we counter balance the blind rage and hatred you have. I’m just saying – it’s pretty bad.
EGV,
You didn’t notice that I edited it.
Hardly freaking out EGV. Yes I do recall you stick up for Obama and his lying, no small challenge I must admit. You also say I want to trade livestock and chickens for healthcare. Where you came up with that is anyone’s guess. Now, do I whine and cry about how mean you are to me? No. You’ve also made some snide references to my age. Again, do I whine about it? No.
You surprise me, as much as we may disagree you always seemed to hold your own. This whining is beneath you.
Mary -
I appreciate you correcting the quote.
I don’t remember snide remarks about your age – I’m mentioned that I believe you look too much to the past for health care solutions, not accurately reflecting the cost of what modern medicine can do now – but that’s far from poking fun at your age.
I’m just saying – if I asked Reality to name things negative about Obama or reform, it would be an easy list to make – as would a list of positives. I don’t feel like I could get that sort of rational approach from you.
Reality,
Read the first paragraph of your link.
Yes, no, and prevarication were your responses
I was being facetious, something you seemed to have little trouble understanding
it would be nice. It’s just so hard to elicit sometimes
It is indeed difficult to elicit from you.
Who the devil is Col. Harry Riley?
EGV,
I do remember. I give examples from my past experience and how radically medicine has changed. I also point out that the gov’t not being so involved as it is now meant for a lot less corruption, waste, and inefficiency. Obamacare only means more of it. The gov’t solves nothing.
I won’t say anything positive because I see nothing positive. I have told you time and again I was for insurance reform, more options, more responsibility for our own health care, etc. I only see gov’t involvement doing what its always done, create more problems.
Even the blasted website is a hacker’s fantasy come true.
Mary
And I truly believe that if you can’t see a law in which millions more will now be insured – if you can’t see any silver lining in that, then you simply don’t understand the realities out there.
EGV,
Assuming of course the website works, their information isn’t hacked, and the insurance company actually knows they are enrolled.
Yeah EGV, sounds great. Typical gov’t cluster****.
Mary -
And people getting kicked off of insurance plans for bogus pre-existing conditions was a pretty big cluster**** as well – but for some reason, you are okay with that.
Again, if you can’t see any silver lining, I think that’s sad – it shows a complete lack of empathy for what some people have had to live through. A massive lack of empathy.
EGV,
Well it sure doesn’t look like much has changed, does it? People are getting kicked off now and you don’t seem to have much of a problem with that either. Neither does Obama who is presently in Hawaii snorkeling and golfing.
I think its sad you see any silver lining in this catastrophe. All I see is lies and havoc. If you consider that a silver lining, so be it. Spare me this lack of empathy crap because I don’t agree with you and our snorkeling president.
Mary -
I don’t know what websites you go to, but a LOT of Americans who didn’t have coverage before have coverage – and the number is growing every day. And even before the exchanges, a LOT of kids who didn’t have insurance were able to get on parents plans – and a LOT of states expanded Medicaid, leading to others with insurance.
Again, the reality of the situation is that people were kicked off of plans – people who needed care, were booted out of coverage for trumped up pre-existing conditions or spending caps. That has gone away. Sure, there are people that pay more – there are always people in every law that will be adversely affected.
To ignore those who have been helped though – again, that shows such a lack of empathy – it’s truly sad.
“This quote doesn’t make any sense. What this guy is describing is how insurance has always worked. I don’t need asthma medication, but it’s a covered service if I need an inhaler. I don’t freak out because someone else’s inhalers are covered. As someone who doesn’t have a prostate, I will never need prostate cancer surgery–should I be angry if my plan covers it? Should a man be angry if I get ovarian cancer and my surgery is covered by insurance? Of course not.”
This. I kinda roll my eyes so much they hurt when people complain about maternity care being on everyone’s policy. The whole point of insurance is sharing financial risk for medical care. I don’t know why people think maternity wouldn’t be something that needs to be covered as well, the vast majority of women of child-bearing age will have children, those costs need to be covered and it makes more sense to spread them among more people.
Medicare was always the worst insurance out there and now people are supposed to be happy because we are kicking millions of people off of plans our government has deemed ‘sub-standard’ insurance plans and enrolling these millions into Medicare. What a clusterfluke
Do you know what is a cluster?
That you still don’t understand the difference between Medicare and Medicaid.
Medicaid then. Any idea how many have been enrolled into Medicaid since the launch of Obamacare on Oct 1st?
Not Medicaid ‘then’ – Medicaid always. It has always been Medicaid. Not Medicare. Two different things.
On Dec 20th – about 700K
Around now – probably a million.
I’ve seen a projection at about 2.5 million by end of year – it will continue to grow because there are a number of predictions on states that previously denied – that they’ll end up expanding.
EGV,
I have no clue what websites you go to but frankly I’m tired of going over this time and again with you. You know Obama is a liar, not once but several times he falsely reassured the American people. I think this article best sums it up.
http://www.humanevents.com/2014/01/03/obamacare-foul-ups-lead-to-chaos-at-hospitals/
In the meantime, our lying president snorkels.
Ex-RINO,
Where do you get your numbers from. Here is a link that says as of Dec 3rd 1.5 million have been enrolled in Medicaid: and it uses numbers provided by HHS and CMS (Centers for Medicaid Services).
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/obamacare-medicaid-enrollment-october
Ex-RINO, where do you get your numbers from?
truth -
From this article – a section from David Blumenthal (Harvard) -
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116080/eight-experts-predict-how-obamacare-will-fare-2014
Mary -
That’s an odd claim I’d like to understand better. You seem to use his misleading people or lie as a trump card – that nothing good could come because he said that. Is that what you are claiming?
Again, my claim was that it’s very sad to me that you can’t see millions of people getting insurance as a good thing.
You disputed that saying that Obama lied, seeming to say that my claim was then no good.
Is that seriously what you are saying?
The oddest word in all discussions of Obamacare is “free.” Ain’t nothing free — it’s all about pre-paying into a shared pool for covered expenses.
The correct word is “covered.” We don’t buy insurance to cover monthly expenses, like gasoline and groceries… it would be too expensive to administrate such a plan. It’s cheaper to pay out-of-pocket. The only way to imagine that coverage for contraception is a good deal is to believe that it is “free coverage.” As lies go, that’s a whopper.
PP helped Pelosi and Sebelius to draft this mandate into Obamacare. You don’t think that Cece was sipping tea with Michelle during all of those visits, do ya?
EGV,
I’m not going to argue the ridiculous… an in depth analysis on Obama’s deliberate lie and how we are all better for it. Face up to it, your glorious leader is a liar, many times over Period. This was a deliberate calculated lie to sell this monstrosity to the American people.
Even some of my Obama schmoozing co workers were shocked to discover they couldn’t keep their doctors. Like you, they believed his lies.
More Americans had their plans cancelled than have signed up. The website is a cluster**** and every hacker’s fantasy. People who think they have insurance, don’t.
I don’t know what fantasy world you live in EGV.
Mary -
It isn’t a ridiculous thing to argue – you said “I won’t say anything positive because I see nothing positive.”
I think that’s insane. I stand my point that if you can’t see millions of people getting insurance for the first time – if you can’t see that as a positive, then I truly think there’s something wrong with you empathy gene. It’s like a group of homeless people getting to sleep inside for a while, and you complaining that the cable TV costs too much in their house.
I’ve already conceded that there are issues – I’ve already said that some people are worse off. You are beating a dead horse there. What I continue to say though is that, in my opinion, any rational mind that actually understands healthcare will be able to pick out some positives. Heck – half the stuff in the law is stuff the GOP wants to implement if they did a repeal and redo!
Sorry the law has nothing about chickens for you. Maybe that’s your trigger.
EGV,
Where does Blumenthal get his numbers? Correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t see a source.
EGV,
Oh my your chicken fixation strikes again. Yesterday it was livestock.
EGV, what is this affinity you have for the barnyard?
Mary -
I’m just struggling to find what your goal is in healthcare – what makes you happy. People not getting kicked off plans is bogus for you – people getting new coverage isn’t a success – people able to bring their kids to the doctor for the first time, you don’t seem to like.
Seriously – not sure what your goals are in healthcare other than you just want to complain.
EGV,
We have discussed this time and again and nothing registers with you. I have offered alternatives time and again and nothing registers. I point out Obama is a liar and why he lied. You defend him. I have given sources. You don’t like them. I’m tired of going in circles with you EGV. You are an Obama devotee, a true believer. People who don’t follow your glorious leader are complainers and haters. Fine. Its a free country, or it was anyway, believe what you want.
If anyone has resorted to pathetic attempts at insults its been you, with your barnyard references, references to my age, and my supposed lack of empathy. You have no idea what I have seen and experienced in my years in the medical area, so unless you are proud to put your cluelessness on display, don’t talk to me about empathy. You might be more concerned about the “empathy” of a president who acts like a silly school boy at a state funeral, who has no qualms about lying to Americans, and then enjoys an Hawaiian vacation while more Americans struggle with that catastrophe that bears his name.
I’ll leave you and Truthseeker to duke it out.
Mary, the discrepancy between Blumenthal’s numbers and the real numbers come in the semantics used to present the data. By phrasing his statement “Already 700,000 newly covered people have insurance through an early expansion of Medicaid” he is able to avoid stating the fact that as of Dec 3rd over 1.5 million people have been added to the Medicaid roles. Blumenthal created and refers to an ‘early expansion‘ subset of the actual 1.5 million number; but the actual number moved onto the Medicaid roles in the two months from the Oct 1st launch till December 3rd was over 1.5 million and not 700k. I am looking for more recent numbers soon that include the last month but since the launch of Obamacare on Oct. 1st more people have been put on Medicaid then have even ‘signed up’ for private insurance on the Obamacare exchanges; many fewer than that have actually purchased private insurance or payed their first premium; but the government is not releasing those numbers.
Mary –
– You do have a history of offering half-baked suggestions that often contradict other things that you’ve said – and when pressed, you say you are frustrated and you bail on the conversation.
– I’ve said nothing about bad sources, nor disputed that Obama has had faults, and that the law has faults. What I continue to not be able to undertand is how you can see all that is going on, and can’t pick out anything good with the bad.
– While I don’t remember any attacking of your age, I stand 100% behind my statements on your lack of empathy. You went on and on about how people at your work might have to go to a different doctor – yet can’t find anything good about a law that doesn’t allow people to get kicked out of insurance and denied coverage for a bogus pre-existing condition claim. It’s scrooge like – and don’t pin it on me for throwing insults. I’ve given you multiple times to back out of your statement – and you stand by it – that nothing good has come from this law. It is heartless of you.
– That ending is very fitting – when pressed, you bail. You offer no though out alternatives, no suggestions – you just have this blind rage hatred that makes a bigger deal out of an individual switching doctors than somebody who now will get to keep their house because they won’t hit their lifetime limits and lose coverage.
Have a great day – whatever ‘great’ is for you.
Hi Truthseeker,
Thank you.
“you just have this blind rage hatred that makes a bigger deal out of an individual switching doctors than somebody who now will get to keep their house because they won’t hit their lifetime limits and lose coverage.”
Ex-RINO, where is the data on how many people would have lost their houses because of reaching their lifetime caps? Please provide an estimate on how many you are talking about. I would put the number really really low. Now compare that to the number of people who will not be able to save for retirement or for their kids education or will have to downsize their houses to pay the higher Obamacare premiums and deductibles. These are real people in the news today being negatively affected financially. So again, where is the data for the number of people who would have lost their houses if the Obamacare no lifetime cap provision hadn’t become law; I would expect you could at least give us your fantasy number of these fictitious people you feel so much empathy for.
any rational mind that actually understands healthcare…
I’ll take Mary’s opinion on healtcare over yours any day, Ex-GOP. She being, oh, a healthcare professional.
You’re more qualified to join Obama’s economic advisors. You’d fit right in.
Truth -
– There is not survey people fill out when they get foreclosed on -here’s an article that states that the number is elusive – but does state that over 60% of bankruptcies have medical expenses as a key component. There’s multiple factors though – usually somebody doesn’t have just one kind of debt. To pretend that it never happens though would be pretty naive.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/25/health/policy/25bankruptcy.html?_r=0
– On your second question – it’s an unfair comparison – it would be fair if that was the only benefit in the law, but you’d have to total people who pay less money on insurance, and their ability to fund retirement and such – and people who pay less out of pocket (or more out of pocket) because of the law. You’d really need to get to CBO and GDP numbers – but you typically reject that sort of stuff.
Hans -
What opinions are you taking over mine? What specific things has Mary said regarding healthcare policy that you agree with?
In fact, I’ll send you $10 if you can detail out what Mary believes in regarding health care policy. Specific things – not just this “she doesn’t like insurance (which I find funny because she freaked out when people lost insurance).
Just let me know – bullet point it out.
“There is not survey people fill out when they get foreclosed on -here’s an article that states that the number is elusive –but does state that over 60% of bankruptcies have medical expenses as a key component.”
Ex-RINO, If the best you can come up with is that the number of people losing their homes because of reaching the lifetime cap is ‘elusive’ then you will find empathy just as elusive. I admit that ‘healthcare costs are a primary reason for bankruptcy, but Obamacare only makes that problem worse. Over time, by forcing middle and lower income people to pay hundreds of extra dollars a month towards higher premiums and higher deductibles due to Obamacare; people will be driven into bankruptcy at a much higher rate then the ‘elusive’ number of people you claim would have been bankrupt by reaching their lifetime caps.
truth –
Not sure what you put in your coffee this morning – I’d ease back.
It’s undeniable that people have lost their houses and worldly things because of medical bills. If you read the news, I’m sure you’ve seen stories of families with kid’s with terrible illnesses that hit caps. Just because a person can’t quantify the number doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I mean, how many grains of sand are in the world? Oh, you can’t quantify it – must not exist!
And on the empathy – Mary can’t empathize with a single individual that now has healthcare, or has a kid with cancer and the family now has coverage, and won’t hit a cap. Saying that a number isn’t quantifiable, and thus then saying a character trait must be waived – I mean, what is that?
Seriously truth – is that the best you’ve got today?
truth
Question for you – do think that insurance discrimination based on pre-existing conditions should be allowed or not?
Hi Hans,
Thank you. I will address you for obvious reasons.
I like health insurance, never said I didn’t, had it most of my life, my folks had it, and my children were always covered. I must admit I have seen huge abuses of it, people who think they are getting something for nothing, and this included ER visits by people who had family physicians, I’d say a good 95% of the elective visits, and most of the true emergency ones as well. Also the frivolous lawsuits by people who think the insurance companies are bottomless pits of money. Guess who the cost gets passed to?
As I said, things just don’t register with EGV.
No they don’t, Mighty Mary. Just the typical liberal whining that because we think Obamacare won’t work, we must be against healthcare coverage. They want all or nothing, we want tweaking. They bit off more than they can chew, and it will be more obvious every day.
Hans/Mary -
To be fair, what is Mary suggesting here? Let me know – I see whining about a system that has existed for decades – but what is the actual policy suggestion here? She likes insurance, but doesn’t like it. She suggest tort reform – guess what – 30+ states ALREADY have it!
So seriously – what doesn’t register with me? That Mary wants to get rid of insurance – I mean keep insurance – I mean reform insurance – I mean not reform insurance because it would interfere with the free market?
Seriously – if you two are going to bash me – tell me specifically WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE DONE TO CHANGE THESE THINGS YOU DON’T LIKE.
While we’re talking tort reform though – Hans/Mary – how much do you think this family should be topped at being able to sue for? $250K?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/04/justice/hawaii-girl-dead/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
Or how about the woman that died in Maryland last fall after having an abortion?
$250K?
“It’s undeniable that people have lost their houses and worldly things because of medical bills.”
And it is also undeniable that Obamacare mandates are raising the premiums and the deductibles and out-of-pocket medical expenses of millions of Americans. Contrary to liars opinions; Obamacare didn’t make medical bills free.
truth -
I don’t think what you’ve said is a surprise – I said earlier in this thread, multiple times, that some people are worse off. And some people are better off – do you agree?
If you believe forcing other people pay part or all of your medical expenses through government mandate makes you ‘better off’ then yes. But the worse off was not necessary and an incremental approach wouldn’t require doing this on the backs of other peoples personal safety and economic security.
Hi Hans,
My goodness its worse than I thought.
Hi Mary,
FIGHT ON FRIEND!!
I agree with what you’ve said and how you’ve said it and I THANK YOU for being here!!!
PS
We.Are.Screwed.
truth -
With all due respect, the assaults on others paychecks have been going on for years – I mean, your Presidential candidate stated that we do have health care – people can just go to the emergency room (and I think you finally understand that care gets passed onto others).
The GOP had a chance to do incremental change for years – they had the Presidency for 20 of 28 years, and I’ve shown, through numbers, how prices more that doubled for a family, and how the ranks of those who were uninsured continued to climb.
You conservatives are a bit like somebody who sets a house on fire and then complains that the fire department didn’t put the blaze out fast enough. The gigantic mess that was created won’t be fixed over night. Some things will get worse before they get better – but getting millions into plans, getting rid of discrimination on pre-existing conditions, and getting the health care social programs (medicare and medicaid) solvent for longer – those are all good first steps.
“– people can just go to the emergency room (and I think you finally understand that care gets passed onto others).”
Ex-RINO- one of your big ways Obamacare was going to reduce costs was by reducing Emergency Room visits. How many more of your lies need to be refuted?
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/daily-reports/2014/january/03/oregon-study-medicaid-expansion-higher-emergency-visits.aspx
My point truth is – your statement earlier today was about forcing people to pay for other people’s care.
If you are advocating now that we should insure less people to try to drive down emergency room visits, just say it.
The issue is more complicated that simply coverage – Canada has far less visits to the ER (per 1K people) – and the UK has less visits – yet both places have more citizens covered.
There seems to be this misconception that people visit the ER do so because they do not have personal physicians. Horse puckey.
They may be told by their physician to go to the ER and have the ER call them after being seen. Or these may be truly emergent situations.
This has been the case with my diabetic husband more than once. It was either on the weekend or after hours or an emergent situation. He was told to go to the ER and his doctor was to be called after he was evaluated.
I would say a good 95% of the patients I saw in the ER, either elective or emergent, had personal physicians. I know because I had to send copies of reports to personal physicians.
It wasn’t uncommon for people to abuse Medicaid, insurance, and medicare because it was “free” and they could visit the ER faster and more conveniently than waiting to see their doctor, likely the situation you are posting here TS. These patients may well have personal physicians but why wait when you can visit the ER for “free”.
Expect to see more of this with Obamacare like we see it with any third party payer.
Hi Carla,
Thank you for the kind words and encouragement.
They mean a lot.
“getting the health care social programs (medicare and medicaid) solvent for longer -“
Ex-RINO, Are you talking about government price fixing? The fact that Obamacare reduces future payments of services to health providers will reduce the number of doctors and hospitals willing and able to provide Medicare patients services. And at the same time we are enrolling millions of more people up to try and get these services. This is going to be one more huge clusterfluke coming down the pike as these cuts kick in over the next ten years unless we can repeal the law.
What kind of voodoo economics is used to extend the solvency of a government welfare program like Medicaid while enrolling millions more people in it for the handouts/benefits?
truth -
Pre-reform – medicare solvency was through 2016. The law and changes to the Medicare Advantage program altered that to 2024. The slowdown in spending of the program has now pushed it to 2026. These figures are all pretty well known, and readily available if you want to search on them and read more about it.
Medicaid isn’t as easy to declare a solvency date because it is jointly funded – feds and states – and the states have a lot of management of their programs (and thus decide on cuts or expansions based on state budgets). The feds though are paying the bulk of the expansion, so the impact on states is lessened.
Read the first paragraph of your link. – and? Did you Mary? It has nothing to do with the farcical truckers blockade. It mentions bikers. Another failed plan.
It is indeed difficult to elicit from you. – yet look what you’ve done. Three unrelated ‘events’ involving three different authors and you claim a fixation with one person.
Who the devil is Col. Harry Riley? – he’s the one who has devised this latest ‘plan’. If you had read the link beyond the first couple of lines you would have seen that.
Reality.
The blockades were simultaneous.
So why do you mention Riley? In fact, why did you even post the link??
The blockades were simultaneous – Sept 11 and Oct 11 are simultaneous?
I’ve already explained where Riley comes into it. Did you miss that bit? Did you not read past the first two lines of the link I provided?
Gven the vehemence of your opposition to having to share the same atmosphere as democrats with political power, I just thought you’d be interested in being a part of some of these various adventures.
Reality,
Try to get a good night’s sleep, it will do you wonders.
You pulling that one this early Mary? :-)
You don’t need my permission.
Why did you state that I had a ‘fixation on this guy’ the first time I referred to him?
Why did you state that he was involved in the trucker event when he wasn’t?
Why state that events held at different times are ‘simultaneous’?
Ah Reality – you’ve run into the ‘Mary White Flag’. It is when she gets herself worked into a corner, and then makes some sort of statement about the other person being the dumb one, and then bails on the conversation.
You’ll see unanswered questions from last night as well after a similar retreat.
Reality,
Not at all. I stand corrected. You had a fixation on my supposed involvement in it, not the guy.
The blockades were a week apart, not a month. Again not simultaneous but one followed the other.
Finally, your reason for this link makes no sense.
Try to get a good nite’s sleep Reality.
Oh well, I’ve always just taken it to mean that Mary wishes to retire for the evening but would like the discussion to be somehow declared finalised first.
Not at all. I stand corrected. You had a fixation on my supposed involvement in it, not the guy. – is that the best you can come up with?
The blockades were a week apart, not a month. Again not simultaneous but one followed the other. – what calendar do you work off? Sept 11 and Oct 11 are more than a week apart Mary. At least you recognise that your claim of ‘simultaneous’ was fallacious.
Finally, your reason for this link makes no sense. – I get the impression these folk are of a similar mindset to you Mary.
Try to get a good nite’s sleep Reality. – I’ve already said you don’t need my permission. No need to try to be dismissive, it won’t work anyway. Sweet dreams.
Reality,
Check your sources again. There was a biker march on 9/11, but it was not in support of the vets. You’ve confused it with the one that was one on 10/5 by the bikers, followed by the truckers the following weekend. Both in support of the vets. No not simultaneous, but not a month apart either. We both stand corrected.
I told you I stand corrected, what do you want? A public flogging? Being that we had a similar encounter a few months previous over the trucker’s rally, I came to the wrong conclusion. My Bad.
While you seem to think I am of the same mindset of these folks your rationale for even posting this link is overblown to say the least. The vehemence of my opposition to sharing the same atmosphere with Democrats with political power? Yeah Reality…whatever.
Sweet dreams.
A biker ‘march’?
The link I provided on this thread mentioned the 2 million bikers to DC event. Which was held on Sept.11.
I have not referred to any event on Oct.5 – do you have any links providing any information about this?
The truckers event – on Oct.11 – was not in support of the vets. It was “T2SDA” – truckers to shut down america – remember?
We do not ‘both stand corrected’.
As I said earlier –
Why did you state that I had a ‘fixation on this guy’ the first time I referred to him?
Why did you state that he was involved in the trucker event when he wasn’t?
Why state that events held at different times are ‘simultaneous’?
Sweet dreams – as I keep saying, you don’t need my permission.
Reality,
We both stand corrected
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/10/escort-and-honor-ride-bikers-rally-today-for-wwii-vets-at-closed-memorial/
Yes I remember about the truckers. Their original purpose did not involve the vets but since the vets planned to be there the same weekend, they did give their support to the vets when they were there, including giving them rides on the convoy to their rally. Assisting and supporting the vets became part of the plan.
Good grief Reality, I said “my bad” and “I stand corrected”. Get over it already. Do I whine and snivel like this when you stamp your foot and refuse to believe a source because you don’t happen to like it, and refuse to give a counter source?
Sweet dreams.
We both stand corrected – no, we don’t.
I never mentioned this rally.
I never referred to this rally.
None of the links I’ve provided have referred to this rally.
I have only made mention of the Sept. 11 rally by bikers.
The link I provided referred to the Sept. 11 rally.
I have spoken of the truckers pathetic shindig on Oct.11
Which makes them a month apart.
And on this thread I have mentioned something mooted for May.
And Riley had nothing to do with the bikers or the truckers, so there was no ‘fixation on this guy’.
Nor did I ask if you were attending the bikers event when it took place. Either of them.
Do I whine and snivel like this when you stamp your foot and refuse to believe a source because you don’t happen to like it, and refuse to give a counter source? – I’m not disbelieving your source about the Oct. 5 ‘Escort and Honor Ride’. I doubt there is a counter source. It happened. But it is not the ‘2 Million Bikers to DC Ride’ event that was mentioned in the link I provided on this thread. That is the point. Your attempt at include an event I didn’t speak of isn’t going to change the facts of the situation.
Sweet dreams. – and yet again, you do not need my permission.
Ex-RINO, The solvency extension you are referring to is government price fixing right? The fact that Obamacare reduces future payments of services to health providers will reduce the number of doctors and hospitals willing and able to provide Medicare patients services. And at the same time we are enrolling millions of more people up to try and get these services. This is going to be one more huge clusterfluke coming down the pike as these cuts kick in over the next ten years unless we can repeal the law.
Reality,
I don’t see any reference to the 9/11 march, only “2 million bikers”. I didn’t know there was a 9/11 march. Since the term “million” gets thrown around pretty loosely, and I’m not inclined to take it very seriously, its easy to confuse exactly which march is being referred to.
I’m referring to a few previous posts on different threads where you insisted I was wrong about something, but wouldn’t post a counter source. I recall you just didn’t like my source. Interesting. One can just tell people one doesn’t like their sources and that settles it.
Hope you had a good night’s sleep.
Ex-RINO, it looks like people could be losing their homes due to Obamacare is happening quicker than even I thought it would happen. Here is a family who are having to go without health insurance cause premiums tripled due to Obamacare. Their daughter just bought a house and she can’t afford both her house and the higher insurance premiums.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/3013386175001/obamacare-personal-horror-story/?intcmp=obnetwork
The ‘2 Million Bikers to DC Ride’ event (march?) was held on Sept.11.
You dug up the Oct. 5 thing.
I’m not inclined to take it very seriously, its easy to confuse exactly which march is being referred to. – well that’s convenient isn’t it. I provided the info. You looked for unrelated stuff. Obfuscation?
I’m referring to a few previous posts on different threads where you insisted I was wrong about something, but wouldn’t post a counter source. I recall you just didn’t like my source. Interesting. One can just tell people one doesn’t like their sources and that settles it. – hm, that’s an easy thing to say. When a source is self-evidently biased and less than fully truthful it tends to get disparaged.
Hope you had a good night’s sleep – I always sleep well. How about you?
Uh Reality,
You failed to give the date, or your link did. There were two events in close proximity. The name meant nothing. The events are always “a million” something or other. I didn’t even know there was a 9/11 event and the only one I knew of was the one in support of the vets and in close proximity, not simultaneous with, the trucker and vet march.
I didn’t “dig up” anything. I responded to your request for a source that verified the only event I was aware of in that time frame.
LOL, of course a source can be disparaged, but that doesn’t prove it wrong, which you should have no trouble doing if it is wrong. I’d think you would jump at the opportunity.
You failed to give the date, or your link did. – it wouldn’t have been any harder to identify the date than it was for you to come up with the one you did.
There were two events in close proximity. – which isn’t the same as ‘simultaneous’.
The name meant nothing. The events are always “a million” something or other. – the names distinctly identified them. The Oct 5 one you dug up didn’t have ‘million’ in the title.
I didn’t even know there was a 9/11 event and the only one I knew of was the one in support of the vets and in close proximity, not simultaneous with, the trucker and vet march. – yet you claimed ‘simultaneous’.
I didn’t “dig up” anything. I responded to your request for a source that verified the only event I was aware of in that time frame. – and posted it despite it being unrelated.
LOL, of course a source can be disparaged, but that doesn’t prove it wrong, which you should have no trouble doing if it is wrong. I’d think you would jump at the opportunity. – I pointed out on what basis some sources are disparaged. And in those instances I have proven them wrong.
No truth – I mentioned it earlier – funding changes with Medicare Advantage, as well as some tax changes related to Medicare on high earners.
Furthermore, healthcare spending is slowing down – more news was out today on that. That has increased the length of time.
Reality,
There are any number of events by any number of names on any number of dates. If you are going to refer to a particular event, a date would be most helpful, especially when it involves the same people (bikers) a few weeks apart. Don’t bikers also rally in S. Dakota too? Like I said Reality, places and dates would be most helpful.
I know, I said they weren’t simultaneous. Reread my post.
No the event didn’t have ” a million” in its name. I wouldn’t know if it did. I told you I pay little heed to “a million” this or that or how event organizers refer to their cause.
I claimed simultaneous and they were in fact a week apart. My bad.
I posted it despite it being unrelated? I posted in response to YOUR request.
Your opinion that a source is to be disparaged “proves” it wrong. LOL, a bit egotistical aren’t you? Like I said Reality, I would think you’d jump at the opportunity to post a counter source, assuming you could.
No the event didn’t have ” a million” in its name. I wouldn’t know if it did. – yet barely more than 30 minutes ago you said “The events are always “a million” something or other.” Which is it?
From the moment I pointed out that the first and only mention of someone doesn’t exactly constitute a ‘fixation with this guy’ all you’ve done is attempt to toss in distractions and obfuscations. I had never even mentioned the biker events before you raised them here! I had spoken to you of the truckers pity party on a previous thread and about Riley’s swamp of delusion on this thread. You dragged the bikers into it.
I posted it despite it being unrelated? I posted in response to YOUR request. – indeed, and it showed that the events were unrelated and not simultaneous.
Your opinion that a source is to be disparaged “proves” it wrong. – it doesn’t require my ‘opinion’ when they are self-evidently biased or less than factual. Or would you be happy for me to provide blatantly biased and distorted sources too?
LOL, a bit egotistical aren’t you? – no, I just hanker after the truth.
Like I said Reality, I would think you’d jump at the opportunity to post a counter source, assuming you could. – and like I said, I do.
Reality,
I’m really tired of going in circles with you. For future reference:
When referring to a particular event, kindly post the date and place of its occurrence. It helps to be specific and its not wise to assume people are even aware the event occurred. You had no knowledge of the Oct. 5th event.
If you don’t want to be proven wrong about an event or when it occurred, then don’t request a source.
When people acknowledge they stand corrected and “my bad” let it go already. Whining is tedious.
If one provides what in your opinion are blatantly biased sources, then it is up to you to provide counter sources to support your claim. Whining that you don’t like one’s sources doesn’t cut it.
I’m really tired of going in circles with you. – and I of the white noise of your distractions.
When referring to a particular event, kindly post the date and place of its occurrence. It helps to be specific and its not wise to assume people are even aware the event occurred. You had no knowledge of the Oct. 5th event. – why would I have? You raised it not me. I’d only ever mentioned the truckers thing and Riley’s thing. You tried to claim a connection which doesn’t exist.
If you don’t want to be proven wrong about an event or when it occurred, then don’t request a source. – I wasn’t proven wrong.
When people acknowledge they stand corrected and “my bad” let it go already. – then don’t add bits on.
Whining is tedious. – I’ve noticed.
If one provides what in your opinion are blatantly biased sources, then it is up to you to provide counter sources to support your claim. – I would agree except that’s not what I do, I just point it out when they are self-evidently blatantly biased and less than fully factual, nothing to do with opinion.
Whining that you don’t like one’s sources doesn’t cut it. – which is why I don’t do it.
Mary, I spent years being sucked into proving how wrong Reality’s posts are and I have come to realize that being right or wrong does not matter to Reality. Being blatantly wrong is just a tactic Reality uses to suck people into responding.
Ex-RINO, other than the price fixing I mentioned, what Medicare funding changes are you referring to?
I spent years being sucked into proving how wrong Reality’s posts are – did you? When?
I have come to realize that being right or wrong does not matter to Reality – it matters very much, hence the discussions.
Being blatantly wrong is just a tactic Reality uses to suck people into responding. – if you haven’t followed the conversation why comment on it?
Hi TS,
That has been made very apparent. Thus the discussions that go in circles.
Thank you.
So pointing out that the first and only mention of someone doesn’t constitute a fixation is blatantly false is it?
And that someone wasn’t the organiser of an event when it was claimed they were is blatantly false too?
And that ‘simultaneous’ isn’t quite accurate when events are a month, or even a week, apart is too?
truth –
I’ve twice mentioned Medicare Advantage – that altered funding a lot.
There are provisions regarding changing from fee-per-service to bundled payments – essentially, hospitals aren’t rewarded for racking up tests.
There are changes to readmissions – facilities can be dinged if they have high readmission rates on certain cases – in the industry I’m in, there is already a radical shift to cheaper home health follow-ups rather than more costly readmissions – this has already helped contribute to a drop in readmission on these key items (speculative correlation – correlation does not prove causation, but there’s obviously been a change).
There’s a new tax – for those making about $200-250K (depending on how they file), they pay a couple percent more towards medicare, only on income above that – it is about 2.35% – so somebody making 300K – a single person – would pay that on $100k of income (all adjusted to only taxable income, of course).
That is the main stuff – a lot of literature out there explaining all of it if you’d like to read more.
Reality,
Please stop whining.
Ah, so pointing out the facts of the situation so as to address the errors of others constitutes whining now does it.
I’ll remember that :-)
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