Activist: Like being gay, abortion a “matter of personal identity”
by Kelli
On the left, it has become a source of frustration that the swift acceptance of gay rights has not been accompanied by a broader liberalization of sexual attitudes, particularly around reproductive issues. “That’s where the anti-abortion side has succeeded,” says [gay activist Dave] Fleischer. “They’ve made people feel that to speak up and say something positive about abortion is something where you risk disapproval, then you’d be suggested to a certain amount of stigma. This is even truer around abortion than it is same-sex marriage.”
Fleischer approached Planned Parenthood Los Angeles, whose CEO had served on the board of the anti-Prop 8 campaign, to let the LGBT Center manage its canvassing program. After fighting a series of statewide ballot initiatives over parental notification, Planned Parenthood’s leadership concluded that its “traditional messaging strategies didn’t work,” according to Sue Dunlap, the CEO of the Los Angeles chapter. Instead, many in the pro-choice movement concluded, they needed to find fluency in the language of values understood by those who might be persuadable on the issue….
Abortion is typically considered a moral concern, about the bounds of life, or a legal one, about the nature of rights and liberties.
Fleischer hypothesized it could be understood instead as a matter of personal identity, and that resistance to abortion really is stigma towards the women who have — or could have — them. “My hunch is,” he says, “talking about real lived experience is extraordinarily helpful in developing empathy and support.”
If so, perhaps American society had just never been exposed to the sustained organic contact that… could begin to dismantle a deeply held prejudice. After all, whites with retrograde views on race find themselves working on the same factory floor as blacks; straight people learn a beloved cousin is a lesbian. But how often does anyone, particularly among those who consider themselves pro-life, learn that a friend or relative or co-worker has had an abortion?
~ Sasha Issenberg, discussing pro-LGBT activist Dave Fleischer’s idea on how to change society’s mind about abortion by using the strategies of the pro-gay marriage movement, Bloomberg, October 6
[Image via firedoglake.com]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Not surprised the name “Alinsky” showed up in the Bloomberg piece; I was thinking as I was reading this is pretty much the Alinsky strategy in a nutshell. Get familiar with someone, agree with them on everything for as long as it takes to get them to trust you, then bring up YOUR specific change in THEIR thinking which YOU wish for THEM to change. Most of the time, people won’t even notice that their opinion has changed, or, if they do notice, they won’t want to willingly stick to their own opinion for the sake of losing a “friend.”
Not only that, when you’re face-to-face with someone representing a larger organization, and that organization has been known to do some pretty nasty things to get their way, you will feel a personal, visceral fear that you will have to pay a price for not agreeing with this seemingly “agreeable” person sitting in front of you, especially as this person has just agreed with 100% of everything you’ve said about this or that for like a half hour or so.
Obama used this same method with community organizing. Only, with large organizations, it usually takes three or four years of going along to get along to get into their heads (and their pocketbooks). The catchy campaign slogan “Be the change you want to be” is really the last part of the hustler’s jive; it’s the agreement he wants you to make to HIS (or HER, in this case) opinion.
Alinsky said, “The first job of a community organizer is community disorganizing.” That’s just another way of explaining a street hustle; you confuse the mark first with a fake you and then when the real you comes out, and you agree to buy into the scheme, by that time your money’s already in their hands and you don’t want to ask for your money back. Once committed officially, it’s normally too embarrassing to change back.
In this case, you have women who will be canvassing door-to-door who will be front-loaded with a rah-rah go get ’em pep talk from the community organizer who doesn’t really give a flip about anything but “The Fight.” As Hillary Clinton’s college dissertation on Alinsky was titled “There’s Only the Fight.” It’s all about gaining raw political power, in the end-game scenario. These community (dis)organizers are just out to disorganize America and gain power.
Im gonna keep it short and simple. Times were better back in the day when someones sexuality was not discussed. TV was TV. Gay? Who cares? Didnt matter
In fact rather than asking for my accceptance get back in the closet. I do NOT care who your bed partner is. SO now to the issues at hand homosexuality is an abomination and so is abortion. There were a few actresses I used to love but had to boycott them for being PC or having an abortion.
Post-abortive as an identity would seem to be in direct conflict with abortion as “choice” (although we do see them moving away from that). The bigger obstacle for them, though, is that the pro-life movement has a strong base of post-abortive women who have made it abundantly clear that abortion hurt them, and that if you want to be supportive, advocating for abortion is not the way to it. And even among women who aren’t “silent no more,” I’m sure many would resent being labeled, against their will, on the basis of one of the lowest points of her life.
I find it kind of hilarious that Sasha Issenberg assumes prolifers don’t personally know and love women who have admitted to having abortions. I certainly do. That fact is not going to make me accept abortion or be silent about it.
So many errors in his thinking. I might write a longer post, to pull some of main errors into light.
But for now, let’s just look at his biggest misunderstanding of reality:
“But how often does anyone, particularly among those who consider themselves pro-life, learn that a friend or relative or co-worker has had an abortion?”
Answer:
We already know many women who have had abortions. A great many pro-lifers are post-abortive women. We have heard thousands of stories of post-abortive pain from the courageous women of Silent No More.
We know that abortion hurts women. Post-abortive women are not silent because of shame…. They are silent because of pain.
It is the pro-life movement who accept post-abortive women. We are the ones who share their pain and offer comfort and hope of healing.
We know that every post-abortive woman goes through a long period of denial, repeatedly telling herself that what she did was right and necessary and maybe even good in some way. We are not convinced when a woman tells us that she does not regret her abortion, because we can hear in her story that she has not yet convinced herself of this.
On the other hand, when women tell their stories of abortion pain and regret — their honesty is apparent to anyone who listens. There is no shame laid upon these women; their pain is not external. The pain is internal…. Abortion hurts women.
The problem is also chiefly that people know someone who could have been aborted.
Right on, Kelsey!
“Fleischer hypothesized it could be understood instead as a matter of personal identity, and that resistance to abortion really is stigma towards the women who have — or could have — them. “”
This man is clearly focused on what DocKimble’s ALINSKY method called the only fight.
He hasn’t REALLY had a conversation with these women, just superficial encounters to gather info for his cause.. which is vague, and because it’s obviously not concern for the actual response these women are having to their abortions, it must be in order to exploit them and their experience for the political power he can glean.
The danger is he wants to stigmatize the fact that abortion is hurtful, to stigmatize actually being honest and talking about the pain. This man wants to, again, like so many liberals do, hijack the identity so HE can have the power it entails, while the one who’s identity it actually is, is left feeling too ashamed. It’s a crown of thorns he places on the post abortive. Dave Fleischer shame on you! I hope women feel encouraged and empowered to replace these posters with the reality, that there is NO SHAME in talking about how abortion HURT. How you were LIED TO, and deceived, and stolen from by that evil trick word, bait and switch JOKE played on you and all AMERICANS, MEN AND WOMEN jokingly called CHOICE, because it takes away your only true choice that any one of us truly has in this world without having to go get a license from the government; our right to bear life, which is TRUE sexuality at it’s finest and most free.
Anyone can experience sodomy and theft and murder, but to fight for that not to happen, that is the American way.
What Kelsey said, times ten!
Even pro-choicers don’t want to be “identified” by their abortions, it seems, as evidenced in the video of the day last week, here ( https://www.jillstanek.com/2014/10/prolife-vid-day-clinic-owners-illegal-abortion-story/) – where the first speaker, Jennifer, makes sure to note that it was only one event in her life, and it does not define her.
How someone can be gay (and believe that choice doesn’t play into it at all) and then turn around and say having an abortion is analogous to that, to one’s entire identity… it doesn’t make any logical sense, to me, at least.
But sometimes – and especially in the case of abortion advocates – facts don’t matter.
So I see we’ve got another doomed-to-fail plan to destigmatize abortion. Is it that time of the week already?
I dont hate homosexuals…i dont hate women who have had abortions. My point is this. Why do people want the world to know? If someone says they are gay do they expect us to throw them a party? And women singing loud and proud about their abortions make me sick.. When and why did it become such a great big deal? I used to watch the Brady Bunch. Robert Reed was gay. AND I NEED TO KNOW that WHY??? So what? Unless a woman discusses her abortion to help other women AGAIN WHY do you have to tell TV land. Keep your sex life in the bedroom. Now all these elite ppl do is pretend to be experts on politics. Shut up and act!!!!
Im just so sick of Ellen the degenerate nudging people on her show to come out. Rubbing their backs and saying ” Its okay you can do this.” Im gay. Applause hugging dancing in the streets. Thats the big news?! That is why that nasty woman will never grace the screen of my TV set. Just SHUT UP!!!
Heather, maybe you should watch ‘Cops’?
Something troubles me.
– Why do the homosexual activists care about advancing abortion?
It is easy enough to understand if we see that there is a diabolical connection, a force that hates all life and drives us to insane alternatives.
But the gay-marriage advocates have no reason to see this connection. What do they think their motivation is? “broader liberalization of sexual attitudes, particularly around reproductive issues”?
I am missing something important.
I am also confused by those who think that abortion is about “sexual attitudes.” Abortion advocates themselves make it clear that abortion is about the choice to keep a child, or kill her. It is about the decision whether or not to raise the child — not about “acceptance of sexual activity.”
Can anyone connect this for me?
How to connect all of this?
The Marxists have to bring down the unholy trinity: the nukelar family, Christianity (and, guilt by association, Judaism), and free commerce between mutually agreeing parties (I buy the vegetables you just harvested in your garden).
These are the key forces sustaining the prevailing society. This cultural hegemony – us believing these things are OK and living accordingly – is what is between the Marxist dreamers and the revolution that they see as historically inevitable.
Now, you know why you find the lesbian activists fighting for abortion, and the pro-Palestine activists advocating for same-sex marriage. It is Marxists striving to weaken our views of this unholy trinity so we will dislike those things, and will accept anything else as admirable.
The bad guy?
A Christian father attending church, and giving a tithe, tax-free. (Me last Sunday.)
Boo! Isn’t that scary!
I hope all of this is starting to make sense to y’all. You are trying to understand a group of people who are brainwashed to believe an end-times prophetic view of the world as told by their prophet, Marx. This is a cult, just like any Christianity-plagiarism religious end-times cult.
Last is right on Del. It’s about breaking what is, so they can create utopia. For our 21st century society, it’s a marriage between radical individualism and collectivism. It’s a seeming contradiction, but doctrinaire Communism died when the Berlin Wall fell.
I don’t know how many of our culture’s antagonists are real Marxists, or even unknowingly marxist.
But I can easily imagine that homosexual activists hate Christianity and abortion activists hate Christianity — so they have become allies merely by having a common enemy.
Pope Benedict named the enemy of our culture as a “Dictatorship of Relativism.” Pope St. John Paul II named it a “Culture of Death.” Both of these are larger than Marxism, but Marxism is a member of both.
Maybe the big celebration of abortion isn’t catching on because so many women didn’t freely make the choice to kill their kid. They were coerced.
Del, I located for you a great (and relatively short) article explaining Last’s point in-depth. Gay and abortion activists both see the family as it has existed as an oppressive social construct, both hurting society and the desires of the individual.
http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2013/11/tocqueville-individualist-roots-progressivism.html
Last Dem you are right about pro Palestinian demonstrators, they tend to be very left-wing. This is odd because the Palestinian culture is very conservative.
Lrnng you are right. Many prolifers know women who have had abortions. My sister and mother had abortuons. I still love them but I still think abortion is wrong. When abortion was illegal my father rook my cousin to have an illegal abortion. I remember her sitting on the floor by the toilet crying. My dad was a pharmacist and he used to dispense medications to cause very early abortions. So my family has a looking history of involvement with abortion.
As for gay rights, I don’t know if people are accepting it as much as having it shoved down our throats. Pretty soon gay marriages will be legal in all 50 states. However, I don’t think its right. I guess I just haven’t “evolved”. Anyone who says anything negative about gays is labeled a bigot, evil, etc. I heard a woman in her forties say that she would be glad when her mother’s generation dies out because most of them are anti gay. What kind of thing is that to say about your mother? Also my ex-husband said that its a “sin” to oppose gay marriage. Um Kay.
Doug…i love Cops! And i watch it!
One reason the social engineers were so succesful in making homosexuality acceptable, even desirable, is they marketed it as a civil rights issue and strategically marginalized any and all who dared to oppose them as ‘homophobic, intolerant and bigoted’.
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But the same kind of people who were succeptible to the live and let live, civil rights argument in the case of homosexuality are resistant to the not so subtle pressure to throw the babies out with the amniotic fluid.
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This is why there is such sustained pressure by the low priestesses of humanism to make the pre-natal child a social non-entity which are marked by their visceral and violent reaction to images which communicate the evidences of intrauterine child’s unmistakable humanity.
I have a very small family but pretty much all of my friends have had an abortion. We just dont really “Go there” I dont like them any less but they know Im pro life. And plenty of gay men choose nursing. Ive never disrespected them. I just dont have to agree with their lifestyle.
I know women who have had abortions. Personal friends. I remember feeling sad and horrified when I found out. For them and for their children and families.
When I became an adult, I became the director of a pregnancy center where I counseled women after they had abortions, and have heard every single detail of the whys, hows, and wheres.
I’m still against abortion.
I also have dear friends who are gay.
Let’s just say we disagree on some things. But that isn’t going to change my love for them. It IS possible to feel compassion for someone while still disagreeing with their actions.
I dont have a sister and my mom was against abortion. I had kind loving accepting parents. But Im not going to congratulate a gay married couple. That goes against my beliefs and its in scripture…it IS AN ABOMINATION. Nah I guess id rather be uncool.
Also as pro lifers we need to realize not all post abortive women are hurting. I hate it when people make excuses for them. Many feel NO remorse. Ive met them. It would be like telling a drunk woman who had driven and caused a fatal accident something like “Oh there there hun.” ” You were going through a bad break up divorce or problem with your kids…you didnt mean to hit and kill 2 people.” Consequences!
Ive met plenty who were sorry but please stop making excuses and calling them all victims. Thats not fair. Just like men some women are cold blooded heartless killers.
If all women are confused and just misguided then how is it that I know cold blooded females in Marysville Ohio prison? My friends brother was stabbed in the stomach shot stuffed in his trunk and the car was set on fire. He was murdered 9 years ago! Why? She wanted $ for an abortion and he said no. Janelle will leave prison in a body bag.
Just like a dear friend of mine has never said anything but say great things about her abortion. People always say well deep down she does. Um NO she doesnt. She seldom brings it up and if it ever is shes says Im so glad I did it. I would have been stuck with Joe for 18 years. She has no substance abuse problems she has no emotional problems. She got on with life and is happily married and she is proud to say shes PC.
Eh above text..shes always said good things about her abortion in 96. Quick painless back to school the next day. ppl say look for signs of remorse. There arent any!
Anyone who cares to search engine Paul Nardone murder Cleveland Ohio. I guess she got her abortion though after killing him and robbing him.
Also I ask a lot of people this ?? When is a good time to get pregnant? Have yet to hear a good answer. I was pregnant from a man who became very abusive not long after the birth of our daughter. We were using 2 methods of BC and I became pregnant with our son. Did abortion cross my mind? Yes. Did I kill him? Nooo. In fact suddenly my instinct to protect the baby came naturally even though ( God forgive me ) I did not want him. I kept rethinking how on earth could this have happened? We were so careful. I love my son. Im glad the shock wore off and I grew to accept life on lifes terms. Hes now 22 years old!
In fact when my friend aborted in 96 and she was signing her paperwork she told me she sat across from another girl and they made small talk. Although they were both there to do the evil deed my friend told me “Omg this girl told me she was aborting so she wouldnt LOSE HER FIGURE! I went “Are you joking???” She said she was dead serious. That is just sickening. me me me I dont want to get fat.
Hi heather, are you posting from your phone?
If not, there is a feature where you can edit your previous post within a certain amount of time.
Just wanted to make you aware of it, since there were a few of your posts that seemed close together in time, above.
But I don’t think that function works when posting from a mobile device.
Anyway… just checking. :)
Hi Kel yep my good old phone. Sorry Im always thinking of stuff to write. its my OCD :) anyway money order in mail for yall today.
Kel thats why the numerous typos Anyhoo dear heavens I have Nancy Grace on. The dad who played on 7th Heaven and that movie Ted was busted molesting children. My daughter looks like Lucy…dead ringer. I want to call her to see if shes heard.
You are right Heather some woman never regret their abortions and feel little to no remorse. I was reading an article about Ann Archer, who was one of those actresses who talked about how wonderful her abortion was. She was in that movie with Glenn Close and Michael Douglas where Close boiled the family bunny (forget the name). That seemed like the high point of her career, she was never an A-lister. I wonder if she still thinks sacrificing her baby for her career was worth it. Probably so.
“As for gay rights, I don’t know if people are accepting it as much as having it shoved down our throats.” – gays getting rights does not impact on you, it changes nothing for you, nothing is being shoved down your throat. It is your previous ability to shove your position down other peoples throats which is being curtailed.
“Pretty soon gay marriages will be legal in all 50 states. However, I don’t think its right. I guess I just haven’t “evolved”. Anyone who says anything negative about gays is labeled a bigot, evil, etc.” – phillymiss, if we change the word ‘gay’ to ‘color’ then it would read exactly the same as what many people said 50, 40, 30 years ago. People changed then and they can change now.
“One reason the social engineers were so succesful in making homosexuality acceptable, even desirable” – I’d love to hear how it’s been made ‘desirable’, do tell.
“is they marketed it as a civil rights issue” – not ‘marketed’, raised and identified.
“and strategically marginalized any and all who dared to oppose them as ‘homophobic, intolerant and bigoted’” – because there is simply no other reason to be against equality for same-sex folk.
“But the same kind of people who were succeptible to the live and let live, civil rights argument in the case of homosexuality are resistant to the not so subtle pressure to throw the babies out with the amniotic fluid.” – you don’t get it. ‘live and let live’ and the ‘civil rights argument’ is about not subjugating women, allowing them to make their own choices and not demanding enforced gestation.
“It IS possible to feel compassion for someone while still disagreeing with their actions.” – that’s great, but when are you going to stop trying to prevent them acting when you disagree with them.
Reality I really resent it when gays compare their movement to the civil rights movement to theirs. Many gay people can pass for straight. I can’t pass for white. Please show me pics of the “gays only” drinking fountains and waiting rooms. Please show me pics of gays swinging from trees. Show me photos of gay people being forced to sit in the back of the bus. Some gays took part in the civil rights movement, good for them, but so did many other people, including many Catholic religious, something the media ignores.
I don’t discriminate against gays and I would never stop them from getting married or doing what they want to do. However I don’t think its right and I have a right to feel this way. I have worked with gay families before at my job. I provide the same services to them as to anybody else; I keep my opinions to myself. I have gay family members. I even intervened (not too successfully) when I saw a gay couple being harrassed. I think all people should be treated with dignity and respect.
If someone doesn’t like black ppl or is racist so what.. I can’t control other peoples’ thoughts. As long as their opinions don’t have an impact on my life, why should I care? And my opinions about gays or gay marriage have no impact on their lives, so why does it bother you what I think?
Also I get tired of hearing about how enlightened gays are and I am still trying to figure out why blacks and gays should be BFFs. The gay community has plenty of problems with racism. Gays of color, especially black males, are often complaining about being discriminated against. I have met white gays who were quite racist. During the Prop 8 debacle a few years ago white gays in West Hollywood were referring to blacks as “niggers.” With friends like these we don’t need enemies.
Are you saying that gays haven’t been excluded from employment, civil institutions, organisations and clubs?
Are you saying gays haven’t been beaten and murdered?
Were black people allowed to marry one another?
“However I don’t think its right and I have a right to feel this way.’ – yes you do.
“I have worked with gay families before at my job. I provide the same services to them as to anybody else; I keep my opinions to myself” – another instance where we could substitute something else for the word ‘gay’ and hear the echoes of the past.
“As long as their opinions don’t have an impact on my life, why should I care? And my opinions about gays or gay marriage have no impact on their lives, so why does it bother you what I think?” – the problem is with those who think that what they think should impact on the lives of others. Both the anti-gay and anti-choice movements.
Phillymiss youre so correct. I look at it this way. Youre right gay marriage will indeed be legal in 50 states. What if child molestation became legal in 50 staes? Are we going to accept that? Man and boy love or a 30 year old man having sex with a 3 year old. TV was so much better when I was a kid. I love Sanford and Son The Jeffersons etc. Why because sex was seldom brought up. Who cared. Today we live in a sex obsessed culture. I guess we just must know who is gay. Why? Idk. Also to address racism/gays I cant speak for other states but in Cleveland there are plenty of black and white gay couples as well as heterosexual. Maybe its just more accepted here. I couldnt say. And indeed Ann Archer had an illegal abortion in Mexico. Gee how do I know? Its in the book ‘ The Choices We Made’ Anne was 18 and her father escorted her. I own the movie Fatal Attraction. Most excellent movie but that was back in like 1985. I saw Anne on some show with Jennifer Love Hewitt for a while. With all due respect shes not aging well. In Hollywood the roles stop coming for women like Anne when they want a spring chicken. She might be able to get some grandmother or mother roles. And Whoopie is in the book too. Goldberg has had 8 abortions and she goes off on The View if any guest threatens her right to choose. I loved Goldberg in Ghost but I do not buy that she gave herself a coat hanger abortion at age 14 in the middle of Central Park. Id be more inclined to believe Donkeys fly!
Why is my comment in moderation?
Homosexual relationships are to marriage what Capitalism is to Socialism.
Socialism is based on a fantasy, Capitalism is based on reality.
Homosexual relationships are not marriage; they are fantasy. Straight marriage is based on the reality of the two opposite gender persons making a marriage, a thing that only two opposite gender people can make.
Socialism has failed wherever it’s been tried. Socialism has always been propped up by Capitalism. Capitalism fails when it adopts Socialism.
Our country will fail because it has adopted the fantasy of “marriage equality,” just as it’s failing because it’s adopting the fantasy of Socialism.
Divorce of two opposite gender people is often based on fantasy. The wedge for the “gay marriage” push was created by heterosexual marriages that divorced because of a fantasy, in many, if not most cases. This is compared to the period of time when Capitalists started dabbling in Socialism.
Karl Marx invented the word “racism” to agitate the working classes and to make “class warfare” seem to be a legitimate issue. Marx and Engels and the later political hacks who bought into Marxism (Lenin, Stalin, Mao) have always used “racism” to choke off dissent from Marxist goals and advance their fantasy of a utopian “Worker’s Paradise,” which is a fantasy. Engels even admitted that the idea of a “Worker’s Paradise” is a fantasy.
The militant Homosexual Movement has created a narrative of “we homosexuals are a race of special people who have been discriminated against and therefore we need to be treated differently than all other races and we get to call anyone we want a ‘bigot.'” This is the same as Marxists choking off political dissent using charges of “racism” against political opponents. Homosexual activists go into the marketplace and agitate for special rights, creating controversies over things like wedding cakes, bed and breakfasts, and wedding photographers. This is typical of Marxist agitators of the past. What are the odds that Militant Homosexuals are being used by Marxists to agitate against straight Christians, straight Christian businesses and straight Christian marriage just like millions of workers have been used by Marxists to agitate against Capitalism? About 100 to 0.
“Why is my comment in moderation?”
Did it include any links?
heather, looks like your comment got flagged as spam. I don’t know why. I’ve published it.
Let me know if you have any further problems, please. Thanks!
No Kel back on track..carry on:)
“Homosexual relationships are to marriage what Capitalism is to Socialism. – Socialism is based on a fantasy, Capitalism is based on reality.” – so what you’re saying is that homosexual relationships are based on reality, true enough, while marriage is based on fantasy, I’m not so sure about that.
“Homosexual relationships are not marriage; they are fantasy.” – and yet there they are and there they will be. Ain’t no fantasy.
“Straight marriage is based on the reality of the two opposite gender persons making a marriage, a thing that only two opposite gender people can make.” – and gay marriage is based on the reality of two same-sex folk making a marriage. The fantasy lies in you thinking it isn’t happening.
“Our country will fail because it has adopted the fantasy of “marriage equality,” – how? Why?
“just as it’s failing because it’s adopting the fantasy of Socialism.” – the US would be about the least ‘socialist’ nation in the western world.
“Divorce of two opposite gender people is often based on fantasy.” – how so?
“The wedge for the “gay marriage” push was created by heterosexual marriages that divorced because of a fantasy, in many, if not most cases. This is compared to the period of time when Capitalists started dabbling in Socialism.” – seriously?
“Karl Marx invented the word “racism” – did he? When was that?
“The militant Homosexual Movement has created a narrative of “we homosexuals are a race of special people who have been discriminated against and therefore we need to be treated differently than all other races and we get to call anyone we want a ‘bigot.’” – no, you’ve got it all wrong. They are saying that they are not so different as to warrant the discrimination they have always faced and still do. They want to be treated the same as the rest of us, not differently.
“Homosexual activists go into the marketplace and agitate for special rights” – what ‘special rights’ might they be? Can you list any for me?
“creating controversies over things like wedding cakes, bed and breakfasts, and wedding photographers.” – no, it’s those who wish to preclude them from what everyone else is able to obtain who create the controversies.
“What are the odds that Militant Homosexuals are being used by Marxists to agitate against straight Christians, straight Christian businesses and straight Christian marriage” – about eleventy squillion to one against that being the case.
Reality: First line was a typo: It should read:“Homosexual relationships are to marriage what Socialism is to Capitalism. – Socialism is based on a fantasy, Capitalism is based on reality.” You only have three minutes to proofread these things; thanks for catching that.
Everything else is my opinion based on knowledge gleaned from over 50 years of studying political systems, especially Socialism and their Cultural Heroes, which studies can’t be duplicated in a small box. I started getting interested in the study of Socialism when I was in High School and took Russian History. This was in 1965. If you want to research Socialism, and find out whether what I say is untrue, have at it. If your opinion is the same as mine after your studies, you’ve done well for yourself.
Otherwise, you’re just fooling yourself that I don’t recognize troll bait when I see it.
….almost 50 years….
(Can’t make those typos when trolls are creeping about)
I didn’t question the things you said about socialism and capitalism apart from the bit about Marx inventing the word ‘racism’ and the bit about the US failing because it’s adopting socialism. Can you answer any of the questions I raised?
You are drawing a very long bow comparing homosexuality and marriage equality with socialism. Would you care to address any of the points I raised regarding your claims about homosexuality and marriage equality?
Did I bait a troll?
Don’t like my opinions? Ignore them; move on. Free country.
“Gay Marriage” is a fantasy, based on the belief that there’s something other than marriage that is equal to it. That’s impossible, but you can build a great story around it that can plausibly be believed by the credulous.
Socialism can’t exist without propaganda about “class struggle,” which is a troll tactic and a lie in America, where black millionaires exist in the multiple thousands.
Gay “marriage” and Socialism are both based on fantasies.
You’re being trolled. But not by me.
Oh no reality is back. I havent missed him at all. Too bad he cant just go away and stay gone.
You are entitled to your own opinions. Just not your own facts. Same-sex marriage is not a fantasy. It exists. It is real. Fact. It may not comply with what you consider marriage to be but that doesn’t make it a fantasy. Some of the reasons cited for opposing marriage equality could be considered to be based on fantasy. So there is that.
Socialism, socialism, socialism…. so what. It has zero to do with the reality that unjustified discrimination and persecution are gradually being overturned in regards to same-sex attracted folk.
You think ‘class struggle’ is just a color thing?
Gay marriage exists. Socialism exists. Your not liking them does not render either a fantasy. Get a grip.
I’m being trolled?!? After what some people have claimed about me? Gosh!
You are entitled to your own opinions …not yourcown facts. lol I hope thats a typo.
Why am I not surprised.
This is a pretty good reminder why I can’t comment much anymore. :( I think people should be able to get their points across without being hurtful.
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