Weekend question I: What actions can and will the House/state pro-life majorities take?
Pro-abort Katha Pollitt gave a nice run-down November 10 in The Nation of the possibilities before a Congress that will soon have much more pro-life passion coursing through its veins:
When the 112th Congress convenes in January it will have at least 53 additional antichoice Republicans in the House and 5 in the Senate…. Supporters of reproductive rights are looking at the most hostile Congress since abortion was legalized in 1973.
For years pundits have been reassuring prochoicers that conservatives don’t really want to get rid of abortion…. I’ve never believed this theory….
Most antiabortion activity is focused on smaller measures and takes place in the states, where some 600 antichoice bills were introduced last year, and where Republicans will now hold 29 governorships and both houses of 19 state legislatures. Add up enough small victories and eventually you’ve changed the reproductive rights landscape, both as a matter of law and on the ground….
Here are some of the antichoice efforts we’re likely to see in Congress in the coming months:
§?Reinstate the global gag rule [Mexico City policy], lifted by President Obama on his first day in office, which bars recipients of US foreign aid from so much as mentioning abortion in their work, and make it permanent [aka bans international abortion groups from receiving US taxpayer dollars].
§?Pass the No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act, aka Stupak on Steroids. This bill would make the Hyde Amendment permanent and reinterpret it to prevent any government department from funding any program that touches on abortion in any way, however notional…. The bill would also make permanent current bans like the one on abortion coverage in insurance for federal workers.
§?Pass the Title X Abortion Provider Prohibition Act, which would ban federal funds for any organization that performs abortions or funds organizations that do so. The aim is to defund Planned Parenthood, the nation’s largest network of clinics for family planning and women’s health [aka the United States’ largest abortion provider]….
§?Beef up so-called conscience protections for healthcare personnel and hospitals.
§?Ban Washington, DC, from using its own [plus federal taxpayer] money to pay for abortions for poor women.
§?Revisit healthcare reform to tighten provisions barring coverage for abortion care.
§?Preserve the ban on abortions in military hospitals.
Note that the official theme here is not the banning of abortion but freeing the taxpayer from having to pay for it, however tenuous the connection….
The problem for pro-aborts is “freeing the taxpayer from paying for [abortion]” is a winning issue.
What do you think of Pollitt’s analysis of the possibilities? Bearing in mind the Senate and presidency are still majorily pro-abortion, what do you think can be done between now and 2012? What do you think will be done?
Pollitt mentioned the various state pro-life majorities but didn’t broach what mischief they may cause. What legislation(s) do you think should be priorities in the states?
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Congress may try to enact some of the initiatives listed above. I doubt they’ll be successful. Personally, I doubt they’ll even try very hard.
Abortion isn’t about legality these days – it is about who foots the bill. I think one of the biggest “wins’ the right has had is convincing their pro-lifers that outlawing funding here and there is a victory they should rest in and stop with.
I’d say that they are all good initiatives. I’d also add a legal liability for those who transport underage girls across state lines to evade parental involvement laws. Those who do so can be prosecuted for kidnapping in the child’s home state and will be financially liable for any injury suffered by the child as a result of the abortion — to include liability for mental health & D&A rehab.
Also a Women’s Right to Redress act.
http://www.feministsforlife.org/taf/1997/winter/abmalpr.htm
With so many states turning red and prolife majorities in the state legislatures on the top of my Christmas Wish List, after no taxpayer funding of abortion, is prolife legislation being passed across the country!!!
Ultrasound bills, Women’s Right to Know, 24 hour waiting, No coercion/force bills, parental consent, etc. etc. etc.
Operation Outcry has declarations ready and waiting to be filed as friend of the court briefs and women ready to testify in their state legislatures!!
http://www.operationoutcry.org
Ex-GOP: Abortion isn’t about legality these days – it is about who foots the bill.
Is it morally permissible to kill innocent human beings?
Is it morally permissible to call human beings, “non-human”, for the purposes of profiting from their destruction – either ideologically or financially?
Paying someone else to target and kill an innocent human being is known as a murder for hire.
Is that moral?
Chris – my point is, it is victory these days for pro-lifers if they don’t have to foot the bill. There’s very little talk of actual bans or legislation. Heck, the house came out and said in their little pledge “we aren’t going to do a darn thing about abortion”, yet pro-lifers are pretty excited about having the house. I’m just saying – it seems like everyone is treating r v wade as “settled law” these days.
everyone? – no, not everyone.
Not by a long shot.
State legislatures regularly try stupid, unconstitutional stuff that the courts usually strike down. No worries there. Congress, for its part, isn’t going to try and tackle any abortion-related issues, knowing that their recent electoral victories rest so heavily on independents and moderate Democrats–groups that obviously lean pro-choice–voting for them. What congressional majority would be stupid enough to throw that goodwill away for minimal political gain instead of just playing it safe and keeping all of their constituents happy by screaming “lower taxes!” over and over?
I think on, the state level, more states need to pass legislation banning abortions after 20 weeks, a la the Fetal Pain bill of Nebraska. Not only would it force Carhart and ilk into an ever-shrinking set of locations for their “work,” it’s likely that sooner or later, the pro-abortion groups would be forced to challenge one or the other of them, even with the fear that they could loose. I realize there’s a chance the court could rule the wrong way and give the victory to the pro-aborts, but I think there’s enough of a chance that they will rule correctly and uphold those laws that it’s worth a shot.
I think Ex-GOP is kinda right. I don’t think the congress will tackle LIFE right “out the box”, I think they’ll concentrate on saving the economy first. Depending on how long that starts showing promise, it may take them a while to get to LIFE issues. I would pray they get it out of the way right away like the Dems did when they repealed and passed everything they could before attempting to do anything “useful”… but they still have a Dem majority in the Senate. That will slow down pro-life bills/changes won’t it?
I guess the only real changes possible are in the new Rep. state congresses. But they’ll be interested in their own economies too….
Honestly. The LIFE issue could be dealt with in a couple months and then the economy could be helped. I would start with our grain issue first. Keeping staple foods affordable is a pretty good pro-life cause too….
Sioko – agreed. I think economy stuff is first.
Then, it gets down to the crux of politics…who donated to the campaigns? A CEO for a home building company gave Romney over $100K the other day in his ramp up. Billions were just spent in this last election. Those bills will need to be repaid. I’m guessing 20 week old babies were not huge givers.
Defunding Planned Parenthood would be a great first step. That’ll work towards ending abortion AND help fix the economy.
And, the only reason independents lean “pro-choice”, is because they haven’t thought about the issue and they don’t know what’s going on. I know this from personal experience.
XALISAE!!!!
Let me be the first to say WELCOME BACK!! Many of us have wondered how you are and have prayed for you!!
So how are ya??
BAM! Nice to see you back, X.
Alright. Thanks for the warm welcome. :)
I’m doing alright. I like my job, getting ready to move up to Wisconsin and get married next year. I’m now an ex-atheist, thanks to my hero. My fiancee is absolutely wonderful, and we can’t wait to get things all settled and get settled in with one another. How’ve you been?
Xalisae!!! :) :) :) I’ve missed seeing you around here, girl! Have wondered about you for a while.
What’s this you say? Ex-atheist?
Yeah. There has to be a God to have sent such an angel to save me like He did. And with His help, we’re going to get all the logistics sorted out and get things how they need to be.
I’ve been watching some Live Action footage about PP in Wisconsin, and honestly, I can’t wait to get up there. They need help.
xalisae,
Been thinking about you, I’m happy life is good for you! God bless!!
X, you sound like you’re doing well. Carla’s up in WI. Not sure which part, but I know she’d give you a warm welcome. :) Much love to you and yours.
Xalisae,
WI!! That is so exciting and I am thanking God right now for taking you unto Himself!
We shall talk WI PP won’t we? WI Right to Life is AWESOME!!
Congratulations on the fiancee too!!
Xalisae, that is very good news. I’m glad to hear that life is looking up for you :) I praise God for calling you and that you answered! The Bible says that all the hosts of heaven rejoice every time a lost soul turns to Him! :)) Luke 15:7
I would only caution: “There has to be a God to have sent such an angel to save me like He did.” suggests that your faith in God rests on the conduct of a human being (your fiancee?). I must caution that all human beings (me, you, everyone) are Fallen and capable of disappointing each other (to say the least). I would encourage you to to trust God before trusting anyone else. God never changes, while people often do. I would hate to see that sentence turned around one day because of some misunderstanding or mistakes on one or both of your parts. (i.e. “Obviously there is no God because I was betrayed and life sux…”)
This was meant with love and concern. Please take it as such <3
Glad to have you back, Xalisae!! Been wondering how you were. I’m so glad to hear all your good news! :D
I’m gonna chime in on the “Yay, Xalisae!” It’s so awesome to see you posting again.
Hi Xalisae. How are you? So glad to hear from you and that you are doing well. I have been praying for you. We have missed you around here. I will be praying for you and your fiance that God will bless your future marriage and your life together. I knew God has a special plan for you, remember I quoted Jeremiah 29:11 “For I know the plans I have for you says the Lord plans to proper you, not for your destruction but to give you a hope and a future”. God’s way is the BEST way because He loves you so much, He created you and you were created to worship and serve Him. God bless you.
Hello xalisae, Glad to hear you are well and with a partner you love. The Lord truly provides for all those who place their trust in Him. Pray together every day and keep God as the center of your union and He will continue to bless your life together. Pray together and give Him thanks for one another EVERY day. He will be both buckler and shield.
My fiancée had me thinking about God before we were together. I thought God didn’t exist anymore because I had forgotten where to look. He reminded me. However things go between my fiancée and I, that’s something I don’t think I will forget at this point.
Thank you all for your prayers and well wishes. It really means a lot to me, and we’re still in need of them, so we really do appreciate it.
Very little will change. Any major changes the rethuglicans try to institute will lessen their success in two years time.
AACK!!! Xalisae!!!
(*FLYING HUG!*)
Er… (*ahem*… *cough cough*)…
Nice to see you again, madam…
;)
Seriously: Wisconsin is waiting for you! Y’know, I wonder how hard it would be to get you, Carla, and me together for a barbecue, or something…
As for the topic of the thread, especially re: the states which have GOP control of governorship and both houses of state legislature (such as Wisconsin–mirabile dictu!), I have only four words:
“RIGHT TO WORK” LEGISLATION.
Paladin, I don’t think “right to work” laws help Unions or workers. Be careful what you wish for.
Hal,
Given the current pro-death stances of most of the unions (especially the pro-abortion National Education Association, with which I’m most familiar), I have no desire to “help” such organizations do anything other than dissolve (so that something sane can be built from their ashes). As for “helping workers”: do you honestly think that eliminating COMPULSORY union membership/dues would hurt workers? How on earth would it? Those who wish to join the unions would still be free to do so; RTW legislation would only remove the unions’ power to take money from unwilling teachers, etc.
Since you tout yourself as “pro-choice”, I can’t fathom why you’d be against such a thing.
I’m also thrilled to see xalisae back–and thrilled to hear she’s an ex-atheist.
I think they should concentrate – for now – on three things.
1) getting “Stupak on streroids” to prohibit federal funding of any and all abortions and abortion providers nationwide – including DC.
2) make a new bil making it a federal offense to coerce someone into having an abortion. Here in Virginia we have 11 out of 40 state senators holding that up indefinitely. They are listed to the lower right here:
http://uvalies.org/peerdeath.html
3) craft a bill that would require abortion providers to inform women that the procedure causes breast cancer and causes preterm birth (and thus birth defects) for a later “wanted” child. Similar to the law Texas has.
I honestly think 1 and 2 would be signed by Obama at this point, and get enough dems in the senate on board beforehand – obviously.
As for # 3, he’ll probably veto it if it gets to him. But make him do it anyway – as the so called “science over politics” president!
Sean
1. they’ll still find a way to fund abortion anyway.
2. there are existing laws against this sort of act.
3. you can’t draft a bill on faulty science.
cranium
1. Not if it is a federal offense they won’t.
2. Only in a few states. In most, planned parenthood has effectively lobbied in favor of forced abortions. They are not “pro choice” if that cuts into their profits. That’s also why they lie about the science, as Lila Rose has showed over and over again.
3. Being in denial on your part does not in any way effect scientific studies. SHow all of us ONE study that says women who’ve had abortion don’t have children earlier than those that don’t in their data. Some make excuses, but NONE that I have seen show this in their own data.
http://www.aaplog.org/get-involved/letters-to-members/dr-iams/
http://gerardnadal.com/2010/09/19/breast-cancer-awareness-an-ounce-of-%E2%80%9Cprevention%E2%80%9D-is-worth-a-pound-of-%E2%80%9Ccure%E2%80%9D/
You can run, but you can’t hide from reality.
1. no bill ever gets through in it’s pure form, there are always amendements, anomolies, loopholes and alternative tracks. So funding will still occur in one way or another.
2. there are laws against coercion or force in relation to any matter. On what basis do you allege there is any lobbying for ‘forced abortions’.
3. You are the one in denial. All the current, empirical studies refute the abc link – don’t bother citing Dr. Nadal, we’ve been there and done that.
This is reality, not your fantasy.
1. Only one way to find out. Obama can veto that one if he wants. I daresay this one could garner the votes to override his veto! You’re just trying to stop what you know is coming at you any way you can. We in the human rights community are enjoying the turnaround in your fortunes.
2. From multiple freinds who told me about them, and there was nothing they could do. And the 64% of women who report being pressured, many of whom were threatened. Typical woman hating abortionist thinking all these women are lying.
3. Couldn’t find a single study showing women have children after abortions later in gestation out of the over 100 published, huh? Neither has anyone else so far in all the times I’ve asked anyone to come up with just ONE.
Here’s a bar graph if the breast cancer link still doesn’t make sense to you:
http://polycarp.org/overviewabortionbreastcancer.htm
But science is not at all what you are into – is it?
The information age has made it much tougher for you to keep women in the dark and keep them misinformed – hasn’t it?
1. did you or did you not read what I said? It will always get through one way or another.
“We in the human rights community are enjoying the turnaround in your fortunes” – yep, nothing like a little self delusion to alleviate the pointlessness of your efforts. Abortion will still be taking place in the years ahead.
2. there are still existing laws being broken which are designed to protect people and punish the perpetrators. If these aren’t working what makes you think another new one will?
“Typical woman hating abortionist thinking all these women are lying.” – rubbish. That’s nothing but a cheap throwaway line.
3. why? You haven’t provided a single unbiased, empirical link to support what you are claiming. I’ve done this to death with Dr. Nadal, I’m not doing it again. The alleged ABC link is rubbish. So is the increased ‘mental harm’ furphy. Later than what?
How many doses of ludicrous do you want me to assign to the link you provided? Get real.
No, science isn’t all I am into. I’m also into fine food and wine, contemporary music, motorcycles and charity work.
What, are you a person of singular interest and ability?
The information age has allowed women to find out the truth, learn what their choices and options are and share their knowledge and experience. One of the downsides is that it also allows, lets say ‘misguided’, campaigns such as expressed here to operate and also people such as yourself to play angry man.
cranium, what kind of work do you do to pay for your fine food, wine, music and motorcycles?
I don’t think you’ve ever shared that with us. Maybe I missed it but I am curious.
It simply isn’t relevant to any topic of discussion ever undertaken on this site in any way, shape or form. Totally unrelated. But I don’t make much.
1. This is a national trend now with a large portion of the folks you were defeated in the worst landslide sinec the 30’s.. They are just trying to convince themselves that none of it matters, it will all change back soon to the way it was in 2008, and elections only are important when they woin them. Cranium, by all means feel free to continue deluding yourself with this.. You may have noticed that president Obama signed an executive order regarding abortion, and it had teeth a few months ago when the HHS tried to slip some abortions for poor women into the publuicly funded slot. Same with military abortions paid with tax dollars. Your side LOST both battles due to ELECTORAL realities that you simply do not want to face. NOW, you have dozens more legislators lined up against you. You can say abortion always will happen. You can say the same about rape and any other murder, too. But you will snap out of your blinders eventually. So tell me, how many partial birth abortions have been performed lately? You also may want to take another look at how shaky Roe?Wade is now that Roe wants it overturned, and the current and likely future of the Supreme Court looks like. But please, keep thinking that all is well for your side!
2. Some states have such laws, and have prosectuted these people. They are in Jail. They are also multiple men in jail for slipping kill pills into their girlfirend’s drinks. Why on earth would they be in jail for providing their spouse’s with “health care?” You are suggesting that all those women are liars who ever said they were coerced. I am not. Plain and simple. Call it whatever you want. YOU are the one accusing countless #’s of women of being liars because their words don’t agree with your POLITICS. I make no such claim about the women who say their abortion was not coerced – or no big deal.
3. The links I have provided was from a group of over 5000 doctors talking about 114 medical studies. You see, folks, this is how they work.. You prove something that has better data, better percentages, better common sence, and better methodology behind it than even there is for linking lung cancer to smoking – and they will just start jumping up and down and screaming “NO NO NO NOO – I DON”T WANNA LOOK!” over and over again. Reality does not impede on their politics – and science can go to hell if it dares to speak the truth. The doctors and researchers are all liars. The PhD’s are all frauds. Up is down. Left is right. The sky is green and the grass is blue.
They can do this forever, but they can’t change the polls that has pro life suddenly winning big time – nor can they change the election results. They will become a more and more fascinating demographic to watch as we progress forward and out of the dark ages of Nazi medicine..
Whoa! Angry man, your typing fingers seem to be moving faster than your brain (I type very slowly :-) ).
1. Yep, all sorts of legislative action will go through which makes significant cuts to abortion funding in some areas. But some will still get through where its not intended to. That’s life. And once the economy is visibly improved and people settle down, and the tea party is exposed for the lunatic cabal that it is, and once the real GOP retakes its place at the table, guess what? Things will go back to how they have been, only with gay marriage coming to fruition as well. I love the way people like you wish for the supreme court to be stacked with like-minded thinkers and then rail against it when it does something you don’t like. Ah, the ‘rape and murder’ canard, how predictable.
2. Your accusations of my declaring these women to be liars is unfounded, untrue and pure drivel. I have not said that women who said they were coerced were not being honest – at all. Don’t attempt to tar me with some brush of your own deluded, rampant hysteria.
3. I DO look, that’s the point. I look at the links that people such as you provide. Its not my fault if they are biased, outdated, inaccurate or have since been refuted. Your claims for the studies you linked to are spurious and merely wishful thinking espoused in a gushing of angry words.
And then you end with a bucket of subjective, opinionated bile. Godwin’s Law.
Cranium,
We’ll see if printing and spending yet another $600 billion buying our our treasury bills (so we can somehow both charge and pay ourselves interest now) makes our economic woes evaporate and people settle down. It didn’t seem to me like the other world leaders your hero just met with were “settled down” regarding this. But none of us can predict the future with certainty, so I won’t. I can only remind you that this is definitely not the conversation you thought you would be having right now back in January, 2008 – now is it? The conservative movement manifested in the “Tea Party” may indeed cool it’s jets and maybe even reverse it’s meteoric rise to relevance in congress in less than two years. But this also might just be the 2nd phase of just the beginning. You could scarcely have imagined a pro life governor in NJ, Virginia turning so red again, and Ted Kennedy’s seat going to a republican either. I realize that you are desperately hoping for things to be the way they were again, but I don’t think you’ll get good odds on that in Vegas.. We’ll see.
I don’t think you and yours are going to be able to stop a bill making public funds for abortions and coerced abortion federal offenses. You do. We’ll see. The future is unknown. But here again, you are clearly not happy to be dealing with such issues. Remember FOCA? Ah, must make you melancholy for the old days that aren’t even two years old yet – huh? Must hurt to have the ultimate victory snatched – quickly followed by a string of historic losses. But if you still think that it’s all no big deal, then that’s just fine with us defending the UDHR, Geneva, and the Nuremberg Protocol.
As for Godwin’s Law, a Wikipedia article is not much stacked up to history. What is it that you do not undersatand about these quotes from Hitler, and these activities of Mengele?
http://uvalies.org/mengele.html
Did Hitler never say those things? Did Mengele not perform abortions throughout his career? Is that Israeli study yet another one you think you can pretend to ignore? Are you a holocaust denier now as well as a science denier? Or just this facet of the holocaust?
If the 114 out of 114 studies were all biased and irrelevant – how is it that you cannot offer anything to show this? You CAN point to some studies that say abortion is not an indpenedent risk factor for preterm birth. But I’ve asked you to show us even ONE that shows data saying that women who have had abortions give birth later in life at the same time or later in gestation than those who don’t. You haven’t done that yet. Does that really mean that there isn’t even one out there? And even if there were one or two – would that reverse the findings of the other 112? Why?
Who are the corrupt researchers? All of them? Even Caroline Moreau – who used to call herself a “pro choice scientist?” Here’s what one of your own political allies had to say:
“This study shows that a history of induced abortion increases the risk of very preterm birth, particularly extremely preterm deliveries. It appears that both infectious and mechanical mechanisms may be involved.” This study showed that women who gave birth between 28 and 32 weeks of pregnancy were 40% more likely to have had a previous abortion, and mothers who gave birth to extremeley preterm infants from 22 to 27 weeks were 70% more likely to have had an abortion.
French Study of 2837 preterm births conducted by pro abortion researcher Caroline Moreau.
So these 2837 women were liars, and Caroline Moreau sectretly decided to switch political sides and make data up that supported her new politics? And dozens of other scientists who had their own studies or peer reviewed hers suddenly flipped along with her and created this mountain range of false data and corrupt methodology? That’s an AMAZING conspiracy theory. Are you going to write a book on this worldwide conspiracy?
Or is there perhaps a chance that they were honest scientists unable to refute their own data even if they wanted to? Nah, I suppose not. Head in sand ideas regarding election results go hand in hand with the same head in sand habits regarding science and common sense. Why on earth would forcing a cervix open at 9 weeks damage it? Why on earth would a beheading in utero give the mother any infections? All those 911 calls from abortion clinics are -obviously – all fraudulent conspiracies as well, right?
Holly Patterson died from “health care.” Laura Hope Smith died of a toothache. Stacy Zallie died from a bad dream. Nothing real or provable is real or proven anymore, because you say so – right? And the rest of us are all supposed to accept any thing and everything based on your opinion, right?
I’ve provided books worth of science. And you can’t come up with anything to refute anything I’ve said. But yet you come on here expecting people to be convinced that everything has been refuted – simply because you said so. Do you honestly think you have changed a single person’s mind? Or does getting embarrassed here give you pause as to how indefensible your position might actually be, or what further damage you are doing to that cause by being so incapable of defending it with independent science, reason, or ethics?
If you are so confident in your position why do you need to spout umpteen words of vitriolic language?
The world goes around. Situations such as we have at the moment are mere bumps in the road of history. Life, law and society inexorably move forward. Like the removal of slavery, like the granting of voting rights to women and blacks, like the freedom for women to make their own choice and like the impending introduction of gay marriage.
I think its more a case of you desperately hoping the current situation will stay and advance. I’m not hoping desperately because I know what will happen. I’ve seen it time and again.
I’d be happy for more laws against coercive abortion, I merely pointed out that there are already laws in place and that if they aren’t working as intended then an extra one is hardly likely to have much impact.
Hitler and Mengele have absolutely zip to do with abortion. To allude to any link is attempted intellectual opportunism.
“holocaust denier”? I regularly rail against those who try to draw links between abortion and the holocaust. It is an insult to the people who suffered through that event.
I think it quite obvious who the ‘science denier’ is, on a number of levels.
“…show us even ONE that shows data saying that women who have had abortions give birth later in life at the same time or later in gestation than those who don’t” – I have no need or intent to do so. All I have questioned is the claim that you made. Why do I need to demonstrate something beyond normal? That’d be like saying that having an abortion produces two offspring!
I don’t think 2837 women individually stood up and each claimed on a scientific basis that they had prem’s because they had previously had abortions. It is a few scientists who are making that claim. So your assertion that I am calling 2837 women liars is illogical.
You have not provided “books worth of science” – you’ve provided a few spurious links. I’ve provided the evidence which refutes these claims of yours previously. I’m not doing it again just because you have emerged from….hm, where exactly?
I am far from embarrassed, my position is far from indefensible and has the independent science, reason and ethics to back it.
“…further damage you are doing to that cause…” – nice to know that you appreciate my presence and that it adds value to your cause :-)
Don’t be embarrassed of a low-paying job cran. Mine probably pays alot less than yours. C’mon, inquiring craniums want to know.
I’m not embarrassed Praxedes. I did the whole lotsa money, company car and credit card, flying to conferences and five star hotel thing on both a business and private level. It was fun but soon became tedious and unsatisfying.
So I basically gave it all away. I now live in a rented house on the tropical coast and earn enough to live a lifestyle which is sort of hedonistic but in a limited capacity. No real excess, no multiples, just really good examples of the few things that I do and have. Sort of minimalist indulgence.
Asset poor, lifestyle rich :-)
Asset poor, lifestyle rich
I hear ya cran.
You can buy a lot of bottles of wine for yourself with the money you would have spent raising the child you created – then killed. That’s for sure.
Cranium, thanks so much for showing anyone looking at this thread your inability to offer up the slightest scientific evidence to support your views. This is about the tenth time I’ve been unable to find anyone who can come up with anything substantive..
It’s fun.
In your head maybe, not in the real world.