Amazing: Possible government shutdown boils down to funding the abortion industry
This, to me, is an amazing development.
The budget disagreement, and whether or not the government shuts down, is now hinging on whether or not tax dollars continue to fund the abortion industry.
Obama and the Democrats have made clear they’re willing to withhold troop funding over the issue of abortion.
But there are 2 moving parts, and Democrat (supposedly pro-life) Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid this morning attempted to blur all sorts of lines.
There are 2 budgets being discussed, a short-term one-week Continuing Resolution that would fund the government April 8 – 15, and a longer-term CR that would fund the government through September.
The only rider having anything to do with abortion in the 1-week short term CR would reban taxpayer funding of abortions in the District of Columbia. If the Democrat-controlled US Senate and Obama signed this CR, which the House has already passed, they would give the 3 branches breathing room to finalize the long-term CR.
Don’t forget, the only reason the government has been under constant threat of shutdown this entire year is because the Democrat-controlled House, Senate, and Executive Branch refused to do their job last October and pass a budget for Fiscal Year 2011. They did not want to jeopardize the election, and in so doing grossly neglected their jobs. And a lot of good that did.
The long-term CR would defund abortions in DC and also defund international groups that promote abortion (restore the Mexico City policy), defund Planned Parenthood, defund UNFPA (which participates in China’s one-child policy), and defund Title X.
So in a speech a couple hours ago, Reid tried to mash the short- and long-term CRs together and also sell funding of Planned Parenthood without ever mentioning the apparently unpopular words, “Planned Parenthood.” In so doing Reid stretched the true intent of Title X – which is “family planning” – to become an all-encompassing healthcare unavailable through any other government program or apparently by any other “healthcare” entity that PP. Read the entire text here. Following are excerpts…
My wife and I have been married for more than 50 years. We have one daughter and nine granddaughters….
One day, one of them may need a cancer screening…. Over their lives they’ll also need other tests like cholesterol and blood pressure screenings….
Some women, of course, have doctors. Others, including many of the poorest among us, do not. So where do they go to get blood pressure or cholesterol or cancer screenings?
Thankfully, there is a little-known part of a little-known law that saves many lives. It’s called Title X, and it’s part of a public health law. And it means that women and girls can go to their local health department or a community clinic and get these tests. More than five million women use centers funded by Title X every year….
With a government shutdown looming not weeks away, or days away, but just hours away – why are we talking about whether women can keep getting something as simple and as non-controversial as cancer screenings?
The answer is that Republicans want to shut down our nation’s government because they want to make it harder for women to get the health services they need.
And by the way, that does not include abortion. It is illegal to use federal funds for abortion services. So anyone who says this debate is over abortion isn’t being truthful. It is about simple and important health services….
But now the Tea Party is trying to sneak through its extreme social agenda – issues that have nothing to do with funding the government. They are willing to throw women under the bus, even if it means they’ll shut down the government.
But that debate does not belong in an urgent budget bill to keep the country running. And it especially doesn’t belong here at this late hour.
The consequences of letting our country’s funding expire would be devastating. It would be devastating to our troops, to our small businesses and to Americans’ everyday lives….
But Republicans are asking me to sacrifice my wife’s health, my daughter’s health and my nine granddaughters’ health. They’re asking me to sacrifice the health of women in Nevada and across America. I won’t do it.
[Photo via Politico]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Oh, Harry. You have so much blood on your hands – and blood money in your pockets.
Defunding PP does not end abortion rights, nor will it shut PP abortuaries, nor will it affect the other 2/3 of abortion centers.
So, why are they shutting the government down?
But Republicans are asking me to sacrifice my wife’s health, my daughter’s health and my nine granddaughters’ health. They’re asking me to sacrifice the health of women in Nevada and across America. I won’t do it.
So his solution is to allow some females (unborn girls) to give up their right to life so that his daughter and daughter’s can have health care?
Surely, if America’s health care system is so great, there MUST be another way to provide health care to women without murdering girl babies (and boy babies) in the womb?
“Obama and the Democrats have made clear they’re willing to withhold troop funding over the issue of abortion.”
Just like Republicans have made clear they are willing to sacrifice troop funding in order to get their social projects.
It takes two.
Republicans have also made it clear that they’re fine with withholding wages for the troops over this issue.
Just like Republicans have made clear they are willing to sacrifice troop funding in order to get their social projects.
You consider eliminating taxpayer funding of the murder of unborn children to be a “social project”? Seriously?
I don’t want to sacrifice troop funding, but neither can I countenance sacrificing the lives of innocent unborn children to provide it.
“And by the way, that does not include abortion. It is illegal to use federal funds for abortion services. So anyone who says this debate is over abortion isn’t being truthful. It is about simple and important health services….”
Does he think we are idiots? Of course this is about PP & PP is all about abortion!
I never used the term “social project” so I’m not sure why you have it in quotations as if you’re quoting me.
And taxpayer money does not go to abortions, ever since the Hyde Amendment was passed in 1976. Let me repeat: taxpayer money DOES NOT go to abortions, and hasn’t for the past 35 years. Why is this fact routinely ignored by the pro-life movement?
Expecting Planned Parenthood to solicit funds from entities other than the government is not a “social project.” Legitimate non-profit organizations do it all of the time.
If this is what it takes, so be it. I may have to get a job to help out until this mess is straightened out, but if that is what it takes to defund PP then so be it. God will see our family through no matter what…. and my husband will continue to fight.
Planned Parenthood is NOT all about abortion. It is about providing reproductive health care to women and men, especially low-income women and men.
How do you expect to prevent unwanted pregnancies if we don’t continue to have organizations that help provide contraception to low-income communities?
This really shows how much in bed they are with the abortion industry and how they are held hostage to them. Forget the troops and kill the babies…that is where the money is. Shame
“forget the troops and kill the babies”
is that really what you think? what about women that have to endure pregnancies that they cannot afford? What about communities that are stuck in poverty because women are saddled with children and can’t go to college, or can’t get a job that pays more than minimum wage?
It’s not ok for you to only care about the troops, or only about unborn babies, we have to comprehensively care about society as a whole….ALL the aspects of society. And this Planned Parenthood defunding is short-sighted and irresponsible in the worst way.
Isn’t it fun when you attach riders to bills. Then you can claim “they would rather so and so then fund the troops”
Here’s an idea. Stop using our troops as pawns and gambling chips. Stop attaching social projects to troop funding bills. Leave our troops out of these quagmires and let them do their job.
Caitlin, I was quoting the person above you. Try reading all the comments.
PP is NOT the only source for low-income women to get low-cost health care (despite their propaganda to the contrary). Defunding them will simply allocate the funding to other clinics that don’t kill children.
Besides, if they are defunded, it won’t shut them down. It just means they’ll have to rely on private donors to continue killing children. Given the many Hollywood celebrities who sing the praises of PP, that certainly shouldn’t be an issue. Perhaps Cecile Richards could take a paycut; I’m sure she could survive on $100,000 per year instead of $300,000 per year.
It really is pathetic to see Reid, et al, so attached to killing children that they can’t bear to part with giving money to those who do it even if it means the financial collapse of the United States.
Expecting Planned Parenthood to solicit funds from entities other than the government is not a “social project.” Legitimate non-profit organizations do it all of the time.
Right on, Jeanne.
Volunteer – once again, it is not a “social project” to defund an organization that kills unborn children. It is a moral necessity.
Caitlin,
You had better call Reid and explain that there IS no federal funding of abortion then. You should probably nip this hullabaloo in the bud!
Good grief.
Local public health departments provide reproductive care (i.e. birth control and pregnancy testing) and many other services in many places where Planned Parenthood does not have clinics. Defund PP and support your local public health department!
Caitlin, first of all, the person who put the term social project in quotations was not quoting you. There was another comment above yours in which someone referred to banning abortion as a social project.
Secondly, as a military wife, I’m not excited about the fact that my husband may not be getting paid. But I’d give up 6 months of salary if it meant that abortion wasn’t being funded by my tax dollars or anyone else.
Third, the Hyde amendment only stops money from going directly to abortion. Let me explain why this is a problem. Pretend that you have $1000 and you want to buy a new $1000 dollar TV but you also have $1000 dollars worth of bills you need to pay. Someone gives you $1000 but says you are forbidden from using that money to buy a TV. Well, now that extra money that was given to you enabled you to buy the TV because you wouldn’t have had enough money otherwise. That’s what happens when we fund PP. We say, don’t use these millions of dollars for abortion. They say, okay, but now all the rest of the money we have can be used for abortion and that is possible because the government gave them millions of dollars. It all goes in the same pot.
Lastly, PP is not the only place where women can get free contraception. There are other places that provide free health services to women and don’t perform abortions. And you can repeat the line about how PP isn’t only about abortion as many times as you want, but it is the largest provider of abortion. 98% of the services they proved to pregnant women is abortion. They have abortion quotas. Why is that fact routinely ignored by the pro-choice movement?
I second that, Leslie!!!
oh – here we go again.
PP evades the law under numerous items, and does not care much abut individual women’s health…I am one of those women they did not care about – gave wrong advice. All they care about is the bottom line.
PP evades sate-mandated reporting of underage child sexual abuse;
has been taken to court for evading the reporting mandates;
not protecting girls from molesters (even when the young women told PP themselves of the abuse), used the prescriptions for RU-486 incorrectly and had to be mandated to stop using the drug incorrectly;
tried to trick women who were coming for routine screenings (pregnancy tests and ultrasounds) into abortions (I witnessed this first-hand);
over-charged for drugs and services to various states;
told underage women to lie about their age and the age of their ‘boyfriend’ so that PP could evade their responsibility in underage reporting;
routinely fight mandatory reporting laws and laws mandating the proper medical status of their protocols and procedures (they are now regulated less than a vet-office, dentist office and others);
etc.
We can provide social help to our people in many other ways – but we should not go through PP. They are untrustworthy, and don’t have the best interest of people in mind – just ask my friend who is infertile because of their provided abortion. Everything they do medically can be provided for by other local medical centers.
We don’t need abortion, and our country does not need to pay for those abortions either.
Remember what we are talking about – the purposeful taking of a pre-born’s life, and the wounding of the mother in some shape or form.
Help people -YES…. Help women kill their children via abortion? NO.
Carla:
I would LOVE to contact Harry Reid, and to congratulate him on fighting the good fight, but I think it would be unnecessary for me to tell him what he already knows: that no government funding goes toward abortion. Guess what:
Boehner knows it, too. So does Pence. So do all of the Republican representatives in Congress, and all of the Democrat representatives in Congress. They ALL know that no federal funding can go toward abortion. The Republicans are just banking on the fact that Republican voters don’t know it.
“Lastly, PP is not the only place where women can get free contraception.”
Getting ahead of ourselves. Outlawing contraception such as BC is a few steps down the ladder.
“Everything they do medically can be provided for by other local medical centers.
We don’t need abortion, and our country does not need to pay for those abortions either.”
Everything they do medically?
Volunteer said, “Stop using our troops as pawns and gambling chips” — this is directed at Obama & the Dems, right? Because yesterday the House passed H.R. 1363 which funds the DOD and the military at current levels for the rest of the year. Commander-in-Chief Obama has declared he will veto it … WHO is using troops as pawns? Just goes to show how highly our current administration esteems men & women in uniform. That is to say, just slightly more than the unborn.
It’s directed at both parties because guess what the bill funding the DOD had with it….
social project riders including abortion and EPA changes.
Who is using our troops as pawns? Probably the people attaching rider bills to their funding.
Jennie: as a military wife as well, I am also fine with taking a hit on my husband’s salary in order to protect women’s health care. What I am not ok with is the idea that our congress is fine with bringing up divisive issues when we’re trying to settle the budget.
and Joy, as a woman who has undergone an abortion procedure, I will tell you that I am not wounded in any way. Not in one single way…physically, nor emotionally.
I am proud to fight for what is right for women, children, and families, and have dedicated my life to the pro-choice movement. Please rest assured that this is a generational issue that is slowly dying out. As older generations pass away, we will be looking at a society more open to immigration, gay marriage, and women’s reproductive rights. I won’t be sad to see this out-dated ideology, and all the hatred that it entails, go by the wayside.
Caitlin…honey…I don’t even know what to say. I didn’t know someone could so blindly trust anything that the democrats told them. You seriously misunderstand the issue of abortion funding. Maybe you should do some more research before you embarrass yourself more.
Caitlin:
Say I had an adult son who’s a heroin addict, and I give him money he promises to put towards his rent. Let’s say he even pays his rent with it! Doesn’t that free up his other money for drugs? How exactly would I even “audit” such spending? Is this such a hard thing to understand?
No federal funding for abortionists. Period.
“It’s not ok for you to only care about the troops, or only about unborn babies, we have to comprehensively care about society as a whole….ALL the aspects of society. And this Planned Parenthood defunding is short-sighted and irresponsible in the worst way.”
We must start caring about society at its beginning. Society, like life, begins at conception. When a country is killing over 300,000 of its citizens a year (PP commits over 300,000 abortions alone every year according to their fiscal reports) before they even leave the womb, how are you caring for society? When you are telling girls that it is OK to be promiscuous and have casual sex because it feels great and that if you wear protection everything will be alright, how are you caring for society as a whole? You are lying to girls who will end up emotionally hurt and physically hurt, because, as much as the feminist movement would like to contradict, we are not built like men. We attach! So, using birth control and getting abortions when that fails, and then taking a woman to therapy to deal with all the losses in her life is definitely not helping society. Teach abstinence and self respect to women and men. Teach commitment, teach responsibility and accountability. PP creates horrible situations and then sells the band aids to cover up the horrible situations they put teens in. They sell cheap, meaningless sex for instant gratification and then sell abortions to cover it up. Pick up a phone and call a PP office and see what services they really provide for women. Not a one has mammogram equipment. NOT A ONE!!! So why is Susan G. Komen giving them so much money annually too? There are alternatives, PP is not the only clinic in town. And their services are not free to begin with!
With regards to federal funding for abortions, if the pot of money donated to PP is used to pay electrical bills, or the phone bill, or the receptionist’s wages, or to clean the floors, it is being used to pay for abortions. The clinic cannot run without electricity, phones, or personnel. They also have sanitation standards to maintain. Every cent given to Planned Parenthood by the government and the Susan G. Komen foundation releases another cent from another contributor to be used towards abortion. If the issue is health care, I am sure there are plenty of other qualified clinics that actually do provide comprehensive care that need the money.
Caitlin, you are hurt, you just have not come to terms with it. You are a mother to a dead child, as any mother who has miscarried (myself) is. The difference being that abortions are elective. So you are a mother to a child you chose to kill. For whatever reason you made that choice, you have not come to terms with it yet. In time, you will, everyone does. I pray there is someone around to help you go through it.
You really, really don’t understand what’s going on with abortion then. More and more young people are supporting pro-life causes. Even Cecile Richards made a statement calling out to get more young people to support the pro-choice cause because she was amazing by how many young people there were at the march for life and other pro-life events.
Caitlin, if you had an abortion and are not affected by it in anyway, that doesn’t mean that thousands of other women every year aren’t affected by it. I was deeply, deeply affected by my abortion. How many women have a baby and spend the rest of their lives wishing they had an abortion? I haven’t met a single one. How many women have had an abortion and spend the rest of their lives wishing they hadn’t? I’m in a support group of at least 40.
Some serial killers aren’t affected in the slightest by the people they’ve killed doesn’t mean it isn’t wrong. Just because you weren’t hurt doesn’t mean you didn’t take a life.
Caitlin – I am happy that your abortion did not affect you in any way – you are an exception since nearly 42% of women get clinical depression (research done by a pro-choice researcher in New Zealand).
One way it did indeed affect you is that you are a mother – but to a child that is now deceased. That does affect you. And spiritually – abortion affects everyone whether one acknowledges it or not.
Sorry to hear that you are championing the killing of innocents. They had every right to continue living as you and I – and their lives affects others. I hope and pray that you come to a time where you understand the great harm done to your child, and yourself, and help others in the other direction – to preserve human life.
If one is a member of the human family – let’s welcome that member into life in the fullest sense. It’s called the Golden Rule. Treat others and you wish to be treated yourself.
No hatred here – just wishing you love and peace in the very fullest sense.
Getting ahead of ourselves. Outlawing contraception such as BC is a few steps down the ladder.
1) “Outlawing contraception such as BC…” You just said “contraception such as contraception.” “Birth control” is just a less fancy term for contraception, so…yeah.
2) I think I hear a slippery slope! We all know what that means!
Jennie: I’m not embarrassed, and I don’t feel that I’m embarrassing myself at all. I’m also not your “honey” and I would appreciate you not using condescending pet names.
Rallies are an outdated form of demonstration. If the pro-life movement feels bolstered by large rallies, then let them feel it! Pro-Lifers also don’t vote as often as Pro-Choicers, and that’s where the real difference is made.
I also think it’s ridiculous to make analogies about heroin-addicted sons, or television purchases. I understand what it means to give money to an organization, and I understand what it means for them to be able to allocate their funds in a different way. Abortion is a LEGAL medical procedure, and no federal funds go directly toward it. If funds are displaced in order to fund abortions, then so be it.
I don’t agree with the Iraq or the Afghanistan wars, and yet I am forced to accept that my taxes fund it. This is compromise.
as a woman who has undergone an abortion procedure, I will tell you that I am not wounded in any way. Not in one single way…physically, nor emotionally.
So, you have no regrets – but you troll pro-life websites to tell us how very wrong we are?
Caitlin, are you aware that Planned Parenthood has admitted that STD testing and other services for low-income women are available at the local health departments for lower cost than PP offers – or even for FREE? Are you aware that PP charges for birth control appointments and birth control, along with all their other services?
Alice, I’ve found BC to represent the birth control pill medication taken by women in the context of blogsphere comments. Appologies if that abbreviation has not found it’s use here. Contraception includes multiple methods such as barrier methods so a clarifying example was used.
I agree with you that it has elements of a slippery slope argument assuming the outlawing of birth control pills is not a goal of the pro-life movement. Are you assuring me that this is the case?
I am proud to fight for what is right for women, children, and families, and have dedicated my life to the pro-choice movement.
Wow, dedicated your life, huh? That means you really are serious about promoting abortion. Couldn’t have anything to do with your own abortion, though. Nope.
That’s interesting you feel that “what is right” for some children is that they are dead.
You didn’t appear to understand what it means for money to go to an organization which I assume is why others felt the need to explain it to you. “If funds are displaced in order to fund abortions, then so be it.” So you do understand that federal funding of PP does actually fund abortion? Abortion may be legal, but that doesn’t mean its right. Legality does not dictate morality.
“Rallies are an outdated form of demonstration. If the pro-life movement feels bolstered by large rallies, then let them feel it! Pro-Lifers also don’t vote as often as Pro-Choicers, and that’s where the real difference is made.”
Is that why Cecile Richards is organizing rallies across the country to gain support? You should let her know its outdated and only serves to bolster her and other pro-choicers. Please, pro-choicers vote more? Really, you should take Jennie’s advice and educate yourself more.
Proof that more people are becoming pro-life
http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/more-americans-pro-life-than-pro-choice-first-time.aspx
It seems that your statements run on speculation and not actual facts. Therefore, you may not feel embarrassed, but you are indeed embarrassing yourself.
Well said, Cristina and Trisha. Well said.
Now you’re asking me to treat the pro-life movement as a monolith when you must know that it isn’t. No social justice movement in the history of humanity ever has been. Right now, we’re going to focus on ending abortion. The bridges after that will be crossed when they are reached.
” Right now, we’re gonna focus on ending abortion. ”
Does the pill cause abortions?
I have no regrets and i’m not trolling, I dont think there’s anything wrong with having a discussion on a board populated by people of opposite ideology.
I’m not the mother of a dead child, I am a woman who avoided carrying a baby my husband and I were not ready for. I became pregnant right before my husband was deployed, and we both made the decision that enduring a pregnancy alone, during a time of intense stress and low-income, would not be healthy for the child or me.
I will be ready for a child in a few years, but now is not the time. I would grieve more to have a child at the wrong time, than I would grieve the loss of a potential baby. It wouldn’t be fair to bring a child into the world that neither of us were ready to raise. I am diabetic and a pregnancy could have been damaging to my body, hence my decision not to endure a pregnancy in order to adopt it out. If I am going to risk my health to bring a child into this world, it will be when I, and my husband, are ready.
Nothing you can say will make me feel differently.
Kel, I was part of the pro-choice movement long before I had my abortion. I work at a pro-choice political agency, and I fight for every woman’s right to comprehensive health care, which includes abortions.
It has been said that “an unwanted child lives in hell,” and I think it would better to end a pregnancy than to have a child that is born into poverty, or to parents that are not ready, or to parents that can’t provide a positive, fulfilling life for that child
Nothing you can say will make me feel differently.
I have no doubt of that, Caitlin. There is no such thing as a “potential” child. One is not pregnant with “potential” human life. This is basic biology. You can continue to tell yourself whatever it takes to not deal with the facts of your own given situation. Not only did you end the life of your child, you then had to deal with “intense stress” and “low income” after. Many diabetics have healthy pregnancies, Caitlin. The real truth is that you were inconvenienced, and you chose to end your child’s life. You may not have seen your child or held your child in your arms, but a new human life, half you and half your husband, was ended that day and will never again exist. You don’t just exhange one child for another when you’re “ready.”
It has been said that “an unwanted child lives in hell,” and I think it would better to end a pregnancy than to have a child that is born into poverty, or to parents that are not ready, or to parents that can’t provide a positive, fulfilling life for that child
If poverty were a reason to end life, then there is no reason why we shouldn’t do it elsewhere in society to eliminate the suffering. Poverty, a feeling of unreadiness (which, btw, all new parents have), and life situations are temporary. Death is permanent.
Trisha:
No federal funds go directly toward abortion. If an organization is able to use its other funds to fund abortion, then federal funds are still not going directly toward abortion.
I think that Cecile wants to have a pro-choice presence out to counteract the pro-life demonstrations, but it’s not the end-all be-all. Demonstrations and rallies are outdated. I am not uneducated on this issue, and I’m not embarrassing myself.
No kel, i was dealing with the “intense stress” of my husband’s deployment, not my abortion.
Plenty of diabetics have healthy pregnancies, but I am not one of them, and I resent your assumption that you know my physical situation. My doctors have assured me that any pregnancy I endure will be very complicated and dangerous.
If you want to say that I was creating a human life and that I ended it, then yes, you are right. I refuse to carry a pregnancy until I am ready for it. I do not grieve for it, because I did not do anything wrong.
No kel, i was dealing with the “intense stress” of my husband’s deployment, not my abortion.
Plenty of diabetics have healthy pregnancies, but I am not one of them, and I resent your assumption that you know my physical situation. My doctors have assured me that any pregnancy I endure will be very complicated and dangerous.
If you want to say that I was creating a human life and that I ended it, then yes, you are right. I refuse to carry a pregnancy until I am ready for it. I do not grieve for it, because I did not do anything wrong.
If carrying a pregnancy is too dangerous for you, and you were/are aware of this, perhaps there are other, more permanent options for you that do not involve the taking of innocent human life. I understood what you were referring to about intense stress. i have a close friend who became pregnant just before her husband’s deployment. They have a little boy at home as well. She’s due in 3 weeks. You’ve given us multiple reasons here for why you chose to have an abortion – stress, diabetes, etc. Which is it? Is it because your life was at risk and would forever be at risk due to pregnancy? Was it due to stress? Was it because you just weren’t “ready?” You’ve thrown out a myriad of reasons – all of which were temporary circumstances other than your diabetes. On top of that, you’re in denial about the biological facts of pregnancy and human conception.
I wish pro-choicers would simply admit the scientific facts about abortion if they’re going to support it. Admit you know you’re taking a human life (“potential” is bunk and WHOLLY unscientific), and just say “My interests are more important than the lives of lesser developed, weaker, human beings.”
You’ve given us multiple reasons here for why you chose to have an abortion – stress, diabetes, etc. Which is it? Is it because your life was at risk and would forever be at risk due to pregnancy? Was it due to stress? Was it because you just weren’t “ready?”
Yes, it was all of those things. There doesn’t have to be 1 reason for someone to not have a child.
I view children as less developed, weaker human beings, and I want to be at a place in my life where I’m able to properly care and provide for one
Yes, it was all of those things. There doesn’t have to be 1 reason for someone to not have a child.
I view children as less developed, weaker human beings, and I want to be at a place in my life where I’m able to properly care and provide for one
Was your child in utero not a less developed, weaker human being?
You said having a child would be extremely dangerous for you at any time due to diabetes. Are you saying you are willing to risk your life to have a baby, as long as it’s the “right time” to do so? I’m just trying to make sense of what you’ve said here.
But people can and do raise children in non-perfect situations.
And yes – thank you for making the point that children are less developed and weaker. all the more reason to protect them in all circumstances.
Thank you for saying directly that you helped create human life and also ended it. That is a truthful statement that reflects reality.
Sorry to hear that you had such a stressful situation. And I hope that you will realize that stress, even ones that you describe, can be dealt with. Humans rise to that occasion all the time.
I hope that you will recognize the need to care for and protect all human life – no matter the size, level of development, environment and degree of dependency. After all – we are members of the same family – the human family – and we should welcome everyone into that, including the sick, imperfect, aged and the unborn.
I hope that your husband is doing well and is safe. Praying for him now.
Yes. If I am at a point where I’m ready to have a child, I am willing to risk a dangerous pregnancy to bring him or her into the world.
I am not willing to endure a dangerous pregnancy while my husband is deployed, nor am I willing to bring a child into the world until I can give it a good home.
Caitlin, do you understand that the moment you conceived (became pregnant), you “had” a child? You did not “avoid carrying a baby”–you were already carrying him or her for weeks or months before you ended his or her life–ended the life of a tiny, unique, completely separate though utterly dependent-on-you human being–your son or daughter. Your abortion did not simply “end a pregnancy.” You can use whatever words you like, but it doesn’t change the facts.
Certainly many children are born into situations where they are “unwanted” by their parents, but the answer is not to kill them before they see the light of day. Views like these reveal a clear disconnect between head and heart, between thought and feeling. The only way to justify abortion is to deny that the unborn are human beings and/or to convince ourselves that destroying them is not murder. It’s all rationalization and emotional disconnection. It’s denial of reality. I know this from experience because I had an abortion 23 years ago. It took me 20 years to open my eyes and see (and feel) the truth. I wish so much that even one person had told me the truth 23 years ago and helped me not make the biggest mistake of my life.
I was 29 when I had my abortion. I thought I could have a “wanted” child later, but despite trying, I was never again able to become pregnant. Regardless of whether this was the fault of the abortion, I threw away my one chance to be a mom, I threw away my child. It is tragic that we live in a society that teaches us that killing our own children is the best way to deal with poverty and stress and our own health concerns.
Even if I can never become pregnant again, I will not regret this decision.
Just as slavery was the defining issue of the nineteenth-century, Abortion is the defining issue of our time. Though it is playing out at the highest political level right now, the morality of abortion and how it has come to be so rampantly practiced in this country signals a divide that is far more than political.
Spend some time talking to so-called “pro-lifers” and “pro-choicers” and you will find that “lifers” believe that there is such a thing as evil, there is such a being as God and that he is not silently disinterested in the affairs of his creatures, and that human beings are intrinsically valuable and possessed of certain inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The “choicers” deny all three of these propositions. They do not believe in a real right and wrong, they do not think that God (if they believe in Him) cares about abortion, and they do not think that all human beings have rights.
The “choicers,” in line with their relativistic ethics and following their desire for personal peace, privacy, and autonomy, believe that this ought to be a question left up to each individual and that the government cannot legislate on this moral question. They say, “if you don’t like abortion, don’t have one.”
The advocates of slavery, said the same damned thing, employing the same damning logic. “If you don’t think slavery is right, don’t own a slave.”
Thank God, there were those who stood up and attempted to force their morality on others.
The rampant legal practice of human abortion in this country is ripping it apart and it is time for a new Abolitionist Movement to begin.
Ian John Philoponus
Abolitionist Society of Oklahoma
(google us)
or
http://abolishhumanabortion.blogspot.com/p/abolitionists-identify.html
I am appalled and disturbed that killing a child is more acceptable than taking responsibility for caring for a child because someone “isn’t ready”. What a cold breeze that blows through the chest of someone who can believe “an unwanted child lives in hell” rather than deciding that the “time may not be perfect but by gosh, I’ll make the best of it and make the best life for my child”.
These are children we’re talking about, not “potential” children. A child doesn’t cease being a child based on the want or unwanted status of the parent(s). It grieves my soul, and I’m positive God’s heart, for people to bottom line the least of these to a procedural “choice”.
When sex is involved, the chance exists, regardless of contraception. What a better society we would have if people would accept that with the act comes responsibility and acceptance of that responsibility. Such self-indulgent, self-centered behavior of “I’m not ready” or “the time isn’t right” borders dishonorable.
I’m atheist and by no means amoral nor immoral. Comparing slavery and abortion is a ridiculous logical leap, and I hope some day for the sake of those that had to endure slavery that you come up with a better way of describing abortion.
Caitlin – I am not sure what type of abortion you had – but did you realize that you put your life at HUGE risk with either a surgical or ‘medical’ abortion?
Both are fraught with problems and complications and considering your diabetic state – this could have gone very badly. Healthy women with NO underlying diseases have died with abortion – and with the huge physical complications and non-supervision of the RU-486 abortions would have been devastating.
Glad you are ok, and i hope that you ability to bear children in the future will be fine. And I hope that you will realize that marginalization of humans – no matter the circumstances – endanger us all.
The fact that abortion unfairly ends the life of a human is one point that the slavery correlation makes – when we think of one segment of the human race to discard, use, destroy, then there is a human rights violation…so abortion unfairly allows others (admittedly bigger and more powerful) to end the life of the unborn. No self-defense, no representation, no judge or jury. Just death.
No ridiculous logical leap there. Just plain usury.
Caitlin,
Allow me to be the first to find a better way of describing abortion, that does recognize just how much it differs from slavery.
IT IS MURDER.
Fetuses didn’t become slaves unless and until born.
To help you understand this point, the reason people equate the two regimes is because they have in common the one defense that the victim (baby or black) was rendered subhuman by those who wished to continue having their capacity to exert power over the weak maintained.
Clearly the practices are different; slave owners profited from having more babies born, whereas your “friends” profit from killing babies. But aside from the arguments propping up both practices, I know of no pro-life arguments that indeed equate slavery with abortion.
Your self-defense of your morality isn’t one, because it hangs on your false belief that abortion is not wrong. You have no moral code, but rather an ethical code, so such an argument is pointless. As I’m sure you are aware, your last comment here drips with irony;
“…for the sake of those that had to endure slavery…”,
since abortion in America hits their descendants much harder than the overseer’s whip.
Caitlin, I understand your defensiveness. I used to be that way too. I have no idea how old you are, but I’m guessing you are in your twenties or maybe early thirties. How very differently I think and feel about a lot of things now, in my early fifties, than I did twenty and thirty years ago! I wish someone had protected me from myself back then, but no one did. Another part of my own process of coming to terms with my life has been realizing how many other people I hurt because of my former attitude about abortion and because of my own abortion.
I don’t think IJP was comparing slavery itself to abortion but rather comparing former attitudes toward slavery to current attitudes toward abortion, and I agree that these attitudes (about the value and dignity of human life and the rights of ALL human beings) are indeed completely comparable.
@ Caitlin
You said how to we expect low-income people to have contraception available to them? The same way that the middle-income and high-income people have to…..KEEP THEIR LEGS SHUT AND THEIR PANTS ON.
And I go to college – and if I had babies, I could still go to college. It’s called online classes. So that’s a lame, lame excuse.
Caitlin – Your cold indifference to the life that was inside you does not minimize the tragedy of the loss of that life. You have probably heard of “Silent No More”. You may someday grieve your loss and I hope you find support and healing if and when you need it. I’m surprised you do not realize that the pro abortion movement is self exterminating. The power behind the movement, represented by the numbers of people willing to support it, is dying along with the babies being aborted. Someday, the mass slaughter will end.
Maybe it is a good time for the pro aborts here to face the truth by watching a series of videos from the Pro Life Action League archives which were added to YouTube in March. True stories from the inside. This is truly horrifying. How many more stories like this are waiting to be told?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iF65nv2B3k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCUKBRv7wGs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-kN_onsB8w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMU9dxSH1pg
The Chicago Tribune printed this outrageous opinion piece on their editorial page April 4th: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/ct-oped-0404-reproduction-20110404,0,7798787.story
Since the Tribune did not see fit to publish any rebuttals to Megan Crepeau, please allow me to post this short rebuttal here.
Is it possible, Ms. Crepeau, that you have not been paying attention? The bipartisan effort to defund Planned Parenthood is only partly due to objections to PP’s abortion services. Additional objectionable behavior attributable to this corrupt organization also includes: accepting donations to fund race specific (African American) abortions, using medically inaccurate information to counsel pregnant women about embryonic and fetal development, protecting the sexual predators of minors, aiding and abetting the sex trafficking of minors, distributing low grade and/or faulty contraception, and lying about the actual preventive and screening services performed within their facilities. These facts are verified by video and audio evidence, Consumer Reports and by former PP employees, the most recent one being Abby Johnson. PP’s contraception methods are effective? Then why the need for 332,278 PP abortions in 2009? This is more than the abortions PP claims to have prevented, 291,000. 54% of PP’s abortion clients were using contraception when they became pregnant. Supportive pre-natal care (7,021) and adoption referral (977) only account for 2% of the services PP provided to its pregnant clients in 2009.
Tax dollars are not used to fund abortions? What else do you call it when our government sends PP, the largest abortion provider in the country, a check for $363,000,000? This money is used for light, heat, staff wages, abortion instruments, suction machines, incinerators, biohazard waste (fetal remains) transportation or countless other abortion related purposes. Suffice it to say that abortion would be much more expensive at PP without the government handout.
Every Life Matters
Even if we had no deficit, PP needs to be defunded- and entirely reformed or shut down- because it has been proven to be corrupt at very high levels. I do not wish to support an organization that ignores mandatory reporting laws and looks the other way when faced with statutory rape, incest, and human trafficking.
Let someone else step up to the plate and provide any good PP might do.
Really, Abortion doesn’t even need to enter the debate. PP is corrupt and deserves investigation and defunding on it’s illegal actions alone.
Tonya, why should every sexual act between me and my husband be with the purpose to procreate? There’s no reason to vilify sexuality.
We used contraception, and it failed us. We owe more to our future family than to have a child when we aren’t ready for it.
I am in no way “coldly indifferent” to the termination of my pregnancy. My husband and I had many discussions, cried many tears, and thought with love about our decision to have a family when the time is right for us. just because I don’t regret it for a second does not mean that I am indifferent.
That’s interesting you feel that “what is right” for some children is that they are dead.
This is the main point of the entire pro-abortion movement.
Caitlin, this is what you did and this is what you believe in.
I pray that someday you will come to realize and regret that you did kill a weaker, defenseless human being – your own sweet child.
What will you do if your future children come to you in your healthy, old age and say,
“Mom we view old people like you as less developed, weaker human beings, and we want to be at a place in our lives where we are able to properly care and provide for you. Therefore, we have decided that really it’s best we euthanize you.”
I guess you will have no problems with that?
Would you have any problems with applying the same logic to a disabled child:
“My darling child, I view disabled people like you as less developed, weaker human beings, and I want to be at a place in my life where I’m able to properly care and provide for you. Therefore, your father and I are going to euthanize you.”
Oh, this has been enjoyable to watch unfold. Stay strong, Caitlin.
Tonya, why should every sexual act between me and my husband be with the purpose to procreate?
Because as much as you and many others want to deny it, procreation IS part of the purpose of our sexuality.
Of course from an atheistic viewpoint, I would bet you do not see the procreative nature of your femininity as a gift but as a curse and as something to be manipulated and denied. Hence the contraception and abortion as back-up birth control.
You deny what is an integral part of yourself Caitlin. And that is what is tragic. Because being able to conceive and bear children IS part of life. It is part of the nature of womanhood.
If you and your husband are not ready for children then I question whether you are ready for marriage. Perhaps this is something you needed to work out prior to your marriage. But to kill your very own child because you are “not ready”? How unbelievably crass, self-centered. How very sad. :(
LOL
Caitlin meet Megan.
Megan this is Caitlin.
Just two gals grateful they could abort their children. A match made in heaven.
You both stay strong now!!
“I wish someone had protected me from myself back then, but no one did.”
Some people don’t want to be protected from themselves. Yet protecting women from themselves is one of the major components of anti-abortion propaganda, and it’s clearly something that has been internalized as a valid reason for undermining abortion rights by many people here, particularly those who claim to have had an abortion that they now regret–“oh, woe is me! Why wasn’t someone there to forcibly prevent me from exercising my rights and making a bad decision?!” It doesn’t exactly square up with the rugged individuality and personal responsibility that is otherwise supposedly such an important aspect of conservative political ideology.
Joan,
You are operating under the false assumption that there is informed consent with abortion, which there isn’t. No fetal development models, description of the ultrasound, telling the risks of abortion. How is offering ONE choice, choice??
Alice and I feel the same way. No big surprise there. We regret that our children died in an abortion mill. My daughter would be 20 years old. I know that is terribly hard for you to comprehend but babies, when not aborted grow!! I KNOW, RIGHT?? Perhaps you missed the part where Alice wrote that she was unable to have another child. How sad. Well, not to you.
I would have wanted someone to offer me anything other than abortion.
Listen to you.
“Oh woe is me??!!” Yeah. Thats all I’ve ever said here.
Caitlin,
The money is being used for abortions. When commenting on this, Tait Sye, a spokesman for Planned Parenthood, said, “If we are defunded, America’s emergency rooms will be overrun.” However, there are no services that PP provides, other than abortion, that anyone would go to an emergency room for. Therefore, it does mean that this money does somehow fund abortions.
With or without insurance, a trip to the emergency room costs tens of times the amount than one would pay to go to a community clinic, or even a free clinic. These clinics, which provide the same services for cancer screenings, STD testing and treatment, etc. that PP provides, are not funded by Title X, they are funded by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, the 1971 National Cancer Act, and the Breast and Cervical Cancer Mortality Prevention Act of 1990.
Therefore, to claim that health care itself will be defunded if we defund Title X, and to claim that abortions are not funded through tax payer funding, are blatant lies.
I was not making a comparison between abortion and slavery above in my post or at my blog, but comparing the state of the world then and now, and the state of the debate then and now. I believe wholeheartedly that we “prolifers” need to revive the abolitionist movement and begin forming local abolitionist societies to fight against the prevalent misinformation and apathy surrounding abortion in our communities.
What kept Slavery going was ignorance and misinformation. What keeps abortion legal is the same. Black people were human beings and could not be treated like cattle regardless of the Supreme Courts ruling in the Dred Scott decision. Unborn people are human beings and cannot be aborted and discarded as though they were somebody else’s property either (regardless of Roe v Wade).
We need to make our voices heard and become far more unified than we are. This is too important to remain silent.
Ian John Philoponus
Peruse this blog if you want to look into at least one fledgling abolitionist society now being set up.
http://abolishhumanabortion.blogspot.com/
Joan, your comments are very disrespectful (implying that I am lying and moaning), and you misrepresent what I said and meant. I don’t wish someone had FORCED me not to kill my child; I wish I had been told the truth and given complete information so I could have made a fully informed “choice.” But I was not. I wish someone had offered emotional and practical support to me so that I would have felt I indeed HAD a choice. But no one did. My “rugged individuality” and “personal responsibility” were finally “turned on” when I accepted that I did indeed have my unborn child killed, and I am “ruggedly individual” enough to have been willing to loose relationships because I finally took responsibility for what happened–and I did lose relationships. Until I accepted and owned up to the truth about what I did, I allowed myself to be manipulated and demoralized by a death-oriented culture, thinking that to do so was to be strong but instead it was weakness, fear, lack of backbone. Accepting the truth of what I did, mourning it, and speaking the truth to others (whether they accept it as truth or not) has made me a much stronger, more confident, less afraid person than I ever was before. I hope you get to experience such true liberation one day too.
Joan,
To be so completely condescending to women who grieve their children who died by abortion is incredibly cruel.
Joan, you forget that a woman who finds herself unexpectedly pregnant is under a great deal of stress. She may very well make decisions that she comes to regret later on. This happens with many people in many different types of stressful circumstances. We can’t see the forest for the trees.
So a woman who say finds herself pregnant and whose husband is ready to deploy to Iraq might feel totally overwhelmed with this situation. She may very well go through pregnancy, birth and post-partum without much support. Add on health issues and financial issues and you have the makings of an really stressful situation.
A woman in these circumstances might very well choose abortion unless she has someone who can offer a more positive and balanced perspective.
This is one reason why abortion is such a BAD decision. It is final. There is no going back to undo the death of the baby. At least by having the baby there are still options available. There are always options.
I scan this blog to see the arguments of the anti-choicers.
One of the things that revolts me is how women who had abortions years ago are still whining, crying, grieving over a decision they regret in hindsight. Instead of facing up to the fact that they made that choice, learning from it (and repenting if they feel required), they stay locked in drama queen mode.
Drama queen mode that is constantly rewarded on anti-abortion boards. It seems like this is the only way you can get any attention. You’d regret it more if you hadn’t had an abortion and couldn’t suck up the sympathy.
Rugged individualism? LOL
LOL indeed, “justdroppingby.” How much attention did you get from your friends for posting your unoriginal, small-minded attempt at an insult? How much “sympathy” do you get from your friends for all your anger and attitude? I share my experience with the hope that others will benefit from it and either not abort their children or find healing from their own memories and regret (as I have healed). Obviously you’re not ready to learn. I’d laugh for real if I didn’t feel so sad for you and for the women and babies harmed by your callousness.
By the way, “drama queen” is defined by Merriam-Webster’s as “a person given to often excessively emotional performances or reactions.” I think your post fits that definition nicely.
“Obama and the Democrats have made clear they’re willing to withhold troop funding over the issue of abortion.” – it is equally legitimate to say ‘Boehner and the Republicans have made clear they’re willing to withhold troop funding over the issue of abortion’. Just depends which side you’re on.
Caitlin
Your post at 2:14 sounds almost as if a choice to kill a pre-born child because of situations that might involve economic hardships as something that is noble as if it would be the enlightened choice what might help you to see a little clearer is the next time someone your able to see, whether it’s yourself in the mirror or someone in front of you, going through challenging sitations ask yourself if you would suggest to them that death would be the practical solution to such a hopeless(?) situation. That lets you know your solution just sounds noble but really isn’t.
“You are operating under the false assumption that there is informed consent with abortion, which there isn’t. No fetal development models, description of the ultrasound, telling the risks of abortion. How is offering ONE choice, choice??”
It’s not the responsibility of an abortion clinic to educate you about fetal development. As for offering “ONE choice”, well yeah, it’s an abortion clinic. What else do you want from them? You paid for, and received, an abortion. Your position is untenable and unreasonable. It’s like demanding that McDonalds educate you about how it makes its hamburgers, and offers you pizza instead, in order to offer you a more robust “choice” than what is on its menu currently. Your choice is to not buy its products or services in the first place if they are not what you want.
“Joan, your comments are very disrespectful (implying that I am lying and moaning), and you misrepresent what I said and meant.”
I never implied either of those things. Nor did I single you out. My comment could just as easily apply to any of the women here who claim to have had an abortion that they regret. (Yes, claim, because I can’t exactly independently verify that they really did now, can I?)
“I don’t wish someone had FORCED me not to kill my child; I wish I had been told the truth and given complete information so I could have made a fully informed “choice.”
Well, maybe I’ve got you all wrong. Do you want abortion to remain legal or do you want it banned, like most of the people here? Because if you want it to be against the law, then in practical terms you do want to be forced not to have an abortion.
“But I was not. I wish someone had offered emotional and practical support to me so that I would have felt I indeed HAD a choice.”
That choice exists independently of whether or not you have enough “emotional and practical support” to “feel” that you have a choice. Again, it comes down to personal responsibility. You have a right to have access to an abortion; the “emotional and practical support” is something you have to pursue on your own.
Joan, you quoted me in your earlier reply, so yes, you did single me out. Not that it matters. Your accusations of lying are disrespectful to every woman on here who has expressed regret for her abortion. But then I guess I shouldn’t be surprised when those who are disrespectful of unborn children show disrespect to other women.
All that’s worth saying has already been said, I think, so I’m moving on.
http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/blog/2011/04/08/how-responsible-are-you-for-where-your-taxes-go/
directly on point, and says some things you guys would agree with.
justdroppingby
This is in response to your 7:21 post. What revolts me is seeing babies fully developed dumped in dumpsters like trash I find that a little revolting. Something else that doesn’t revolt me but just makes me feel like an individual is a little lacking when it comes to emotional maturity is when someone has the audacity to verbally attack moms who have found a safe place to grieve. I think that’s your real problem you know their pain is real that is why you seek to shame them into silence. What are your thoughts.
ok Joan – so women who go to an abortion clinic know they offer abortions, and by your logic – women who go to an abortion-alternative know that they are not going to be offered abortions.
Perfect. So no more rambling about Crisis Pregnancy Centers being deceptive and need to be shut down. Thanks for making the case.
And regarding abortion providers providing abortion … that is why women need to think long and hard about walking into an abortion clinic – because they have been trained to ‘close the sale.’
Abortion providers are not thinking truly of the woman … as one good nun recently told me: “circumstances change” And that is one very good reason why making a permanent decision (ending a life by abortion) should not be taken based on circumstances that are temporary.
I will boldly stand and tell the world until my last breath that abortion hurt me and killed my daughter. That you CHOOSE not to see nor understand is your problem not mine. That you simply brush away the personal stories of abortion and call us whiners is a reflection on you, not me. You are whining so I shut up. Not gonna happen.
There are too many women hurting that need me. That need my voice. That call me, email me, facebook me for abortion recovery.
If you are hurting from your abortion please email me
carla@jillstanek.com
or call the National Helpline for Abortion Recovery 1-866-482-5433
Or please attend a Rachel’s Vineyard retreat
http://www.rachelsvineyard.org
It absolutely is the responsibility of an abortion mill to show a woman a 10 week old fetal model and show her the ultrasound and describe exactly what she is seeing. It absolutely is the responsibility of the mill to describe EVERY single risk and injury that might occur to her and absolutely inform her that the fully alive human baby she is carrying will be torn to pieces and sucked out of her body with a vacuum.
It is called informed consent.
Just trolling by,
You come here to be revolted?
You need a new hobby.
Oh and just so we are crystal clear Joanie.
We were not talking about McDonald’s were we?
We were talking about the death of Alice’s child and my child.
Your lies will never stand when faced with the truth.
What a cold breeze that blows through the chest of someone who can believe “an unwanted child lives in hell” rather than deciding that the “time may not be perfect but by gosh, I’ll make the best of it and make the best life for my child”.
I mentioned before I am a child welfare social worker here in Philadelphia. I deal with “unwanted” children every day. There are many, many resources available here and all over the country for children in difficult situations — kinship care, out-of-home care, group homes, etc. And of course, adoption. Older children and children of color have a harder time getting adopted, does this mean that we just shoot them in the head because they are “unwanted”?
Just because a child is born into a situation that is not ideal doesn’t mean that he is going to have a terrible life. There’s plenty of people that grew up in “perfect” families, but went on to do horrendous things,for example, Klebold and Harris. None of us has a crystal ball — we don’t know how someone’s life is going to turn out.
I will tell you that I am not wounded in any way. Not in one single way…physically, nor emotionally.
My husband and I had many discussions, cried many tears, and thought with love about our decision to have a family when the time is right for us.
My husband and I had many discussions about throwing out the moldy deck furniture and thought with love about our decision to buy new when the time is right for us. But we didn’t cry over our decision to throw the crap out.
If there is nothing to regret, there is no need to shed tears.
You and your husband shed tears while discussing whether or not you should allow the beautiful, brand-new, non-moldy, perfect Child of God you made together to live or not.
What an absolutely touching story dripping with sacrifice for your child, Caitlin. How big of you to come here and tell us that you are not wounded in any way — not one single way.
Another Democrat lie about Planned parenthood, “Abortion is just one of many procedures, and the law bars Planned Parenthood from using tax money for it.” If taxpayers fund PP in non-abortion areas, it just means that PP has more private donated and PP generated dollars to spend on abortions. Democrats play games!
“You and your husband shed tears while discussing whether or not you should allow the beautiful, brand-new, non-moldy, perfect Child of God you made together to live or not.”
Let’s rephrase that: “You and your husband shed tears while discussing whether or not you should use your body to continue sustaining a preborn human life, risking your physical and emotional health in the process.”
Is that all that Caitlin was when she was pregnant, Praxedes? A uterus?
Is that all that Caitlin was when she was pregnant, Praxedes? A uterus?
Nope, she became a mother and her hubby became a father.